< 1214179519 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214180459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, thought that "presumably it was a joke in another channel" was about "AnMaster: Slereah2, I wonder same as Slereah2 about Corun", because i automatically skip all nick changes when reading, tusho's comment did indeed seem quite astute, especially as AnMaster is only on #esoteric :P < 1214180484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214180498 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that the first time you've used the word astute < 1214180499 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1214180530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1214180550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a word copier < 1214180576 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally prefer the word "saucy". < 1214180593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're called astute, i will use that same term < 1214180603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not about you, but about your comment, which is kinda weird < 1214180747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the seven today? < 1214181000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1214181016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1214181023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always forget that < 1214181032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 8, 9 for me < 1214181033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all day long < 1214181119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, how was astute wrong describing a comment? < 1214181130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1214181161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to believe i'm wrong when it comes to... anything. < 1214181166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, then i'm not sure what you meant < 1214182593 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaiz < 1214182598 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone of you know Occam Pi? < 1214182647 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1214182691 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z < 1214182943 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214183431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1214183450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z < 1214183451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i win < 1214183452 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye :) < 1214183460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1214183492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn! < 1214186534 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw shit < 1214186534 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late for zorro < 1214186576 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopollll < 1214187053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meee < 1214189178 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how has the language changed < 1214189576 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, what's the opposite of Christopher Reeves? < 1214189634 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Christopher Walken" < 1214189641 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternate punchline: < 1214189646 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Christopher Alive" < 1214190530 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christopher walken > all < 1214190582 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Christopher Alive? < 1214192088 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214195491 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: missing the joke < 1214195949 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I get the joke < 1214195962 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that it would be funny if there were actually that guy. < 1214196964 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might make the joke better, potentially < 1214197045 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because it was quite lame originally < 1214197070 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what has two legs and bleed? < 1214197073 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bleeds < 1214197123 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half a dog. < 1214197131 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate riddles < 1214197160 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have infinitely many answers, but they only want the answer they're thinking off. < 1214197167 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, riddles. < 1214197241 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have an open-ended riddle: What is the answer to this riddle? < 1214197252 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one correct answer, of course: "This." < 1214197255 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already said the answer < 1214197258 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what" < 1214197278 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1214197292 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is no the answer to this riddle? :o < 1214197317 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, one might say "negative". < 1214197334 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd have to use a larger class of no. < 1214197336 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is "no". < 1214197350 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The riddle isn't working properly, you see. < 1214197366 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, if it is no, that means that no isn't the answer? :o < 1214200020 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1214201687 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1214202761 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214206940 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1214207999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1214208000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1214210252 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214210982 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm|--0@219-88-194-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1214215376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lol, thought that "presumably it was a joke in another channel" was about "AnMaster: Slereah2, I wonder same as Slereah2 about Corun", because i automatically skip all nick changes when reading, tusho's comment did indeed seem quite astute, especially as AnMaster is only on #esoteric :P < 1214215380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on other channels < 1214215393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just they are hidden due to some user mode... < 1214215403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only see the channel I share in /whois < 1214215410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :share with you* < 1214216053 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1214216053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214217581 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /whoisnt < 1214218527 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1214218864 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Remote closed the previous member app" < 1214219980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but we're talking about ehird's perspective, so it's pretty much the same thing < 1214220645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1214222586 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-90-25.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222674 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222674 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222675 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222675 0 :GregorR[Prague]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222675 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222676 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222677 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222677 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222678 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222678 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222678 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222679 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222680 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222680 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222680 0 :AAAAAAue4njxuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222681 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222682 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222682 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222683 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222683 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222683 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222683 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222683 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214222684 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1214222970 0 :Slereah2!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-23-183.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222970 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-112-38-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222970 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222970 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222992 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-112-136.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222992 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214222992 0 :Phenax!n=Phenax@67.15.72.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223000 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223000 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223006 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223006 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223006 0 :GregorR[Prague]!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223006 0 :shachaf!n=shachaf@66.17.178.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223006 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223012 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-112-38-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :lifthras1ir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@203-217-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :psygnisfive!n=augur@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F9CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@peridootti.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223037 0 :AAAAAAue4njxuz!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223292 0 :SimonRC_!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223664 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection refused < 1214223681 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1214223772 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223772 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223772 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223772 0 :GregorR[Prague]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223772 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214223789 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-112-38-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223789 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223789 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223789 0 :GregorR[Prague]!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223789 0 :shachaf!n=shachaf@66.17.178.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223789 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1214223820 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1214225478 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214225757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214226160 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226239 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226239 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226240 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226240 0 :GregorR[Prague]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226240 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1214226312 0 :SimonRC_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214226317 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-112-38-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :GregorR[Prague]!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :shachaf!n=shachaf@66.17.178.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226440 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1214226844 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host24-87-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1214227280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p621246134.txt <<< suggestion based language < 1214227311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under construction, and so esoteric you could eat off of it. < 1214227341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you can see from the "functional" definitions of the functions, you can be a bit more declarative < 1214227390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is, you *suggest* pieces of computation, the interp finds a way to actually use that computation to get the correct sequence < 1214227407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because atm it only supports integer functions < 1214227443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho's not here, so no one prolly cares, but ask me for details if ya feel like it :P < 1214227536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{...}} marks something failed, ((...)) means it did what the definition asks for < 1214227563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is failure defined? < 1214227587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that at that point, neither returning a nor b will do what the definition asks for < 1214227641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, for the rule a=a+b, without b=a, the sequence [(1,1),(1,1),(1,1)...] will be generated, so @ fib 2, fib 4 - fib 3 != fib 2 < 1214227649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that ruleset is incorrect < 1214227661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one is tried < 1214227802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is, this is very pointless, but i like the idea of just kinda suggesting the computational part, and letting it give you the details < 1214227855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, for look-and-say, you'd just give a few examples, and tell it it should be counting subsequences consisting of the same character < 1214227874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of doing this in an ef-like regex-list way < 1214227883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you know ef < 1214227888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is one of my languages too < 1214227890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214227907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: lost interest? :D < 1214227924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Ef? Got some URL? < 1214227931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a few exmaples < 1214227932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples < 1214227959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/ef.txt dunno if that's helpful < 1214227960 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(searching esolangs.org gets no hits)... < 1214227965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214227971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm a bit afraid of wikis < 1214227986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been going to add all my langs there < 1214227997 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many? :-) < 1214228005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ef is a functional language with a twist < 1214228020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/ cise and the ones after it are mine < 1214228026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a lot more < 1214228054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphica and oklotalk-- are the only ones with a working implementation < 1214228057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, and nopol < 1214228068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, that Ef looks a lot like Haskell... < 1214228092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the twist is, every time you apply a function to something, you take the fixed-point of it < 1214228109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what looks like haskell about it? :P < 1214228128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is *very* different semantically, but in my opinion syntactically as well < 1214228144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kind of defining functions by formulas. < 1214228154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(double n) = (doublecum n n/2) ! n < 1214228157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this? < 1214228160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214228168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's just setting a variable to a lambda < 1214228203 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214228221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python does it too, fac = (lambda a,b:a(a,b))(lambda f,n:n==0 and 1 or f(n-1)*n) < 1214228262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i failed < 1214228292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fac = lambda n:(lambda a,b:a(a,b))(lambda f,n:n==0 and 1 or f(f,n-1)*n,n) < 1214228327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, added the function to give fac to itself after realizing python doesn't indeed have a recursion construct < 1214228350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was in too much of a hurry to fix < 1214228395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (double n) = (doublecum n n/2) ! n doesn't take the fixed-point, this is just some ugly sugar for the fixed-point definition < 1214228410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the fixed-point definition is overkill for simple stuff like this < 1214228427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically: to double n, call the function to double it, and extract the result. < 1214228441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doublecum does the actual multiplication by two < 1214228448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a cool fixed-point < 1214228454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doublecum = (n .add):{n+add add/2} < 1214228457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1214228469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"take two args, n and add, and take fixed-point of add" < 1214228481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, n is the cumulative sum, add is what's added to it each iteration < 1214228500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed-point(function) is basically while(true){function} < 1214228504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but functionall < 1214228506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1214228534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fixed-point of (f n) is (f (f (f (... (f(f n))))) < 1214228543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite f's < 1214228577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, doublecum takes an n, and an "add", which should always be n/2 when it's called < 1214228588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then generates the sequence < 1214228617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n, n/2), (n+n/2, n/4), (n+n/2+n/4, n/8) < 1214228619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1214228630 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214228636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you prolly know from math, n approaches n*2 < 1214228639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add approaches 0 < 1214228655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: read logs for a new language of mine, and obscure rant about Ef! < 1214228664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ef? < 1214228674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fixed-point language < 1214228685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying a function is taking the fixed-point of it < 1214228692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1214228695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that TC? < 1214228711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's syntactically functional, but imperative/declarative in semantics < 1214228719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have ski in it < 1214228730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually just parsing ski < 1214228736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be simple to actually execute too < 1214228738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parseski={!x:_;(!x=='` & ! x+1 & ! x+2 ~ (class[])) => ! x..x+2 = [! x+1,! x+2]} < 1214228748 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Least fixed points apparently have connection to complexity. For first-order logic + LFP, you apparently get P (polynomial time), and for second-order logic + LFP you apparently get EXPTIME... < 1214228774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually perfect for executing non deterministic stuff, because you don't tell it the order of reductions < 1214228776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: should I read today's logs, or yesterday's, or both? < 1214228783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just before you joined < 1214228858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: not least fixed point, you tell it from where to start < 1214228861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1214228877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that you give it a function f, and it finds the least x for which f x = x < 1214228879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1214228922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it reminds me a bit of one of my as-yet-undocumented idea-languages, but it's different < 1214228937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very weird paradigm < 1214228945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fun and different to program in < 1214228959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there are two things it's good at < 1214228968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is just the mathematical fixed-point stuff < 1214228993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the infinite sequence and it does all the precision work for you < 1214228998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1214229017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also program by telling it stuff that can be wrong in the input < 1214229022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm talking about Tinker < 1214229028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell it how to correct the errors < 1214229031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1214229033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proud did much the same thing, but in an uncomputable and crazy way < 1214229038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it took all possible functions < 1214229044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you gave it information about the functions < 1214229045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214229051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it rejected the ones that didn't comply with your info < 1214229060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was basically my idea too < 1214229063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you write something like fib n = fib n+2 - fib n+1 < 1214229064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the concept < 1214229079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it rejects all functions that don't have that property < 1214229094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, unfortunately that's still infinite functions :P < 1214229097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one unusual thing I noticed about Proud was that it was above-TC despite having no way to loop < 1214229120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Proud didn't just do integer functions, it does everything, even higher-order functions < 1214229129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1214229139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i know you, so i guessed that. < 1214229140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, clearly it's unimplementable < 1214229153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1214229167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i already show you muture? < 1214229168 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Got URL? < 1214229172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no < 1214229172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to, at least < 1214229179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's similar to yours < 1214229180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only ever described it in #esoteric < 1214229186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only an idea-language, I haven't worked out the details < 1214229191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your other impossible language < 1214229199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which one? < 1214229202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1214229203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know muture < 1214229212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the declarative thingie < 1214229232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/muture.txt < 1214229232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think that was Proud < 1214229234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is declarative < 1214229236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a functional language < 1214229244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two declarative constructs < 1214229261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you comparing functions for equality there? < 1214229261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :">> expression" means "maximize result of expression" < 1214229264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's uncomputable < 1214229265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< == minimization < 1214229277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":: expression" == "make expression true" < 1214229286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not comparing them < 1214229288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do that < 1214229299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that :: thing is something that INTERCAL really seems to want < 1214229311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language doesn't guarantee perfect results. < 1214229320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally designed for graphical purposes < 1214229331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since assignment to expressions was implemented, INTERCAL seems to want a fully general declarativeness < 1214229335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i reduced it to a declarative language first, and decided to add graphics later < 1214229344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of a sensible way to implement it < 1214229366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll go do laundry, try to deduce what that code does, it's fairly simple :P < 1214229372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1214229410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Levenstein distance, obviously < 1214229453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in this case, finding the word with the most similar Levenstein distance < 1214229464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that \ is some sort of member-of operator < 1214229486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... muture seems capable of similar things to Cyclexa < 1214229495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I really ought to get around to writing some day < 1214229522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're different languages in paradigm and syntax and so on, but strike me as similar in the sort of programs they'd be good at < 1214229705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode-connect: stop being so slow, I joined over a quarter of an hour ago < 1214229735 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you didn't get killed by your own ghost... :-) < 1214229752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that would be embarassing < 1214229769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally it's me killing the ghosts < 1214229772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router here is dodgy < 1214229778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I often have to reset my connection < 1214229847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214229854 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently if client breaks the connection while network is split and joins the other side of split and original server won't notice before network is joined again, you get killed by your own ghost. < 1214229870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can see how that would confuse an ircd < 1214230211 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently computers had so little power when IRC was designed that one couldn't allow multiply-connected server connection graphs (IRC interserver connection graph is spanning tree, which makes it very vulernable to netsplits). :-( < 1214230399 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spanning graph connections makes it so that if ANY interserver connection drops for any reason, you get netsplit. Also, if any IRCD with degree greater than one crashes, you also get a netsplit (along with possibly some dropped users). < 1214230411 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214230428 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1214230430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'd always wondered why IRC was a spanning tree < 1214230435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was to make routing easier < 1214230470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed it was to be annoying. < 1214230520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is because if it was general graph, you would have to have a mechanism for killing duplicate messages. < 1214230555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, you could just send sequence numbers or something < 1214230561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one good thing about IRC is how simple the protocol is < 1214230570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, and have, written IRC by hand, it's not particularly difficult < 1214230588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it makes message routing easier. With spanning tree it is just: Send your own messages to all outgoing links and send messages coming from link to all other links. < 1214230613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, most ircds only send to those links that need it < 1214230617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for performance reasons < 1214230644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are experiments in meshed ircds < 1214230651 0 :caio!n=caio@201-92-41-98.dsl.telesp.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1214230681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ! < 1214230689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interfunge progress? < 1214230699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've been working on the INTERCAL external-calls stuff recently < 1214230706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the INTERCAL-C bits < 1214230709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1214230711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214230730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was for a silly but necessary reason < 1214230741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to create a way to define new expression operators in INTERCAL itslef < 1214230744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/itslef/itself/ < 1214230758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1214230760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214230768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you need to be able to do NEXTs out of and RESUMEs into the middle of an expression < 1214230777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1214230780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214230786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only solution I could think of was to use the external calls mechanism to get the INTERCAL program to do ffi to itself < 1214230807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah < 1214230831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code for that's about half-written now < 1214230839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1214230888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1214230965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am mildly insane. < 1214230976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM, I suffer from the urge to make a distro smaller than tomsrtbt. < 1214230991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've used ucLinux, is tomsrtbt even smaller than that? < 1214231002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ucLinux is a kernel. . . < 1214231010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, ucLinux/Busybox < 1214231012 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214231014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214231026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to make the full OS < 1214231030 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214231048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomsrtbt is kernel+busybox+dosfsutils+ext2utils+reiserutils+httpd, basically. < 1214231050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fond memories of customising it to be able to fit Python and the entire OS onto just 16MB of hard disk space < 1214231059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a complete Lua environment. < 1214231065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's exactly that, although as you said, quite obvious < 1214231067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2MB. < 1214231073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \ is member of < 1214231091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I think I can make it smaller: frankly, it's old. < 1214231110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It predates such niceties as the linux-tiny patches, uclibc, squashfs-lzma, etc. < 1214231134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's got that 2MB using straight glibc. . . < 1214231142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, you can do things like customize BusyBox to make it smaller by removing unused programs from it < 1214231148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1214231163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you get it down to 32 bytes? < 1214231168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God no. < 1214231178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my target when trying to make a small TC lang interp < 1214231179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's perhaps 2 or 3 opcodes. :p < 1214231189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't matter which lang, just to make the interp as short as possible < 1214231195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I invented MiniMAX for that purpose < 1214231197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming an ELF header) < 1214231207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ELF's really bloated < 1214231225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can fit most of a BF interp in a minimum-length ELF program < 1214231234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can put machine language in unused header fields < 1214231248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well aware. ;) < 1214231260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using DOS .COM format to save on overhead < 1214231286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah; after all, .COM has 0 overhead. < 1214231295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1214231303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gives a fairer count of the true length of a program < 1214232071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214232088 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214232394 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214232577 0 :Slereah!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-82-47.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214232641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214232659 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214232682 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214232710 0 :Slereah!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-82-47.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214233162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214233197 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214233209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sayeth 'w00t'.
< 1214233216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why? < 1214233220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting $8,000 in renewable scholarships. < 1214233226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is good < 1214233239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the university itself. < 1214233253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only get £500 in scholarships a year < 1214233260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only $3,000 in financial aid, though. < 1214233264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only if I get high grades < 1214233271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, that makes about half of my college paid for. < 1214233275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they just go towards reducing the fee from very lots to lots < 1214233330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214233365 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214233453 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214233498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words: dammit, this kicks some major ass. < 1214233806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what are you studying? < 1214233823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer science & applied math; dual major. < 1214233875 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Just worked out how to write valid enough a.out headers (36 bytes on i386, space not reusable)... < 1214234011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 little-endian header fields. First is 6553863, second is size of program code and the remaining seven zeroes. < 1214234069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use a.out format nowadays? < 1214234079 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. :-) < 1214234083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is it named after a default filename? < 1214234094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes in initrd's. . . < 1214234101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're really *that* anal about binary size, of course. < 1214234227 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if one is really anal about binary size, doing tricks like using mmap to load 'shared' libs is also probably useful. < 1214234228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about x86_64? < 1214234233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't even have a.out < 1214234294 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux/x64 does support a.out, but the binaries are 32-bit. < 1214234370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++ < 1214234376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION flips off this build system
< 1214234402 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libstdc++ package missing? < 1214234412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1214234425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pikhq@localhost specs_finished]$ ls /usr/lib | grep stdc++libstdc++.so.5@libstdc++.so.5.0.7*libstdc++.so.6@libstdc++.so.6.0.9* < 1214234432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a problem a while ago where there was a broken version of libstdc++ higher in my build path than the correct version < 1214234438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/build path/.so search path/ < 1214234444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1214234447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how it got there, but it utterly broke my system < 1214234460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the executables on it stopped working, but luckily bash and mv were still working < 1214234461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be trying to statically link in libstdc++. < 1214234462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I renamed it < 1214234468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the system started working again < 1214234480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes me wonder if maybe Mandriva has libstdc++.a in a seperate package. < 1214234513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it does. < 1214234533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah... Package search paths. I once ran into problem that scons built a (not very) substly broken binary. But repeat the link on command line using EXACT SAME command it said it ran, and it would link working executable... < 1214234638 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you using 'gcc' to compile/link C++ code? < 1214234646 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or 'g++'? < 1214234675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++. < 1214234684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't have libstdc++.a. < 1214234695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a problem when the package is trying to statically link something. < 1214234715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214234716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm quite in a dilemma with my university courses, 6 of the courses i've taken sofar i've gotten grade 5/5 from, and i got 3/5 from one, probably because i used oklotalk to answer the questions < 1214234733 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214234744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214234754 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214234793 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AFAIK, if you put -lfoo as linker option it searches for both libfoo.a and libfoo.so... < 1214234794 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214234795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i basically have to redo that < 1214234812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um < 1214234817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The linker is being explicitly told to statically link everything. < 1214234818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1214234834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disconnected, not sure what got through: i'm quite in a dilemma with my university courses, 6 of the courses i've taken sofar i've gotten grade 5/5 from, and i got 3/5 from one, probably because i used oklotalk to answer the questions < 1214234848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i basically have to redo that < 1214234858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have to redo it? < 1214234861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 3/5 bad? < 1214234866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's average < 1214234870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1214234877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... you can't *almost* reach perfection, and then not. < 1214234880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need 5/5 in t? < 1214234886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1214234907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others are 5/5, it would feel lonely. < 1214234986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... you won't need 5/5 in it afaik? < 1214235001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, of course, that the more fives i get the harder the strike is when i can't five a course :P < 1214235014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't *need* it < 1214235014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here they mark people with percentages < 1214235019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214235024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>70% is the top grade boundary < 1214235039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is U/G/VG < 1214235045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better in that you can't get obsessed with getting 100%, cuz you never do anyway < 1214235048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in some subjects everyone gets 50-80%, and in some it ranges from about 1% to about 99% < 1214235055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underkänt, Godkänkt, Väl Godkänt < 1214235059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U = not ok < 1214235063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = ok < 1214235065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Some people can pull it off. Granted, that's usually in high school. . . < 1214235069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VG = very good < 1214235073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that < 1214235076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where, frankly, grades seem inflated for the most part. < 1214235084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sure, but i'm just a regular genius < 1214235085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no ais. < 1214235093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how the fuck does it make sense for me to get 112% in a class?) < 1214235097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214235111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't really consider high school anything < 1214235122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 3 year wait < 1214235130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is that possible? < 1214235147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In US high schools, almost trivial. < 1214235153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh god < 1214235160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well highschools in Sweden use: < 1214235175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you only bother with putting up with the BS that is easy, boring, useless homework. < 1214235185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IG (not passed), G (passed), VG (very passsed), MVG (excellent passed) < 1214235188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And easier, more boring, more useless extra credit. < 1214235192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 20 MVG iirc < 1214235200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not inflated < 1214235213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of high school i kept getting grades 5/[10] < 1214235216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214235227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of high school i kept getting grades 5/[4..10] in high school and 5/5 in uni < 1214235234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite funny < 1214235239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the A-level grading system here in the UK doesn't make a whole load of sense < 1214235240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1214235244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the percentages are scaled for everyone < 1214235254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scaled how? < 1214235257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in some subjects I had several modules at 100% < 1214235266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would have been 110% or so but it's capped at 100% < 1214235270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very passed is funny too! < 1214235275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically they add marks to everyone or remove marks from everyone < 1214235279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it is bad translation < 1214235285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to whether the exam was easy or difficult < 1214235290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it makes sense in Swedish "väl godkänt" < 1214235306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf < 1214235310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense < 1214235319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains how I got several 100%s despite not answering all the questions < 1214235327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I got the exam mostly right, and it was scaled upwards < 1214235331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no one else did? < 1214235333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think exams are mostly scaled upwards nowadays < 1214235351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, several people did, just several more people did really badly < 1214235361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214235365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes 0 sense < 1214235452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fucking hate this package. < 1214235459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has bogobugs! < 1214235468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way the group project was marked here at Uni was pretty silly too, though < 1214235471 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-170.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1214235475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were four groups of ten people < 1214235478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each group was given a mark < 1214235490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the marks were about 68% because they took care to balance the groups < 1214235492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what package? < 1214235518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before the marks were given, the members of each group had to agree what proportion of the final mark would be split to each person < 1214235536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err that seems totally unfair? < 1214235544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance, I ended up with 10.73% (I think) of the 680% the group had < 1214235560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, the idea was that some people in each group would have worked harder than others < 1214235566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the marks should be given accordingly < 1214235566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1214235567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1214235577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea, stupid implementation < 1214235580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, yes it's a pretty silly system that I don't agree with < 1214235594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, some of that 68% was made up of the groups grading each other < 1214235601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we all agreed beforehand to all give each other top marks < 1214235638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214235717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grading system the year before that was even sillier, by the way < 1214235729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAOimage DS9. < 1214235730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, groups could do work for each other in exchange for marks < 1214235734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people could exchange marks freely < 1214235735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hea-www.harvard.edu/RD/ds9/ < 1214235756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before work started, groups had to draft contracts, signed by them and the supervisor, explaining how marks would be allocated < 1214235767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the supervisor signed the one I drafted without reading it < 1214235779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good because I left loopholes in there that I could have used to get arbitrarily high marks < 1214235789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't use them, though, because I scored well enough anyway < 1214235797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR $r1,$38 < 1214235799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that was given < 1214235802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are two registers < 1214235806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it seem sane? < 1214235814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which register would be modified? < 1214235823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the syntax you're using < 1214235831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are $ signs there, the second, I think < 1214235852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't take my word for that, I'm not used to GNU-style assembly syntax < 1214235853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm constructing a new asm language < 1214235855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1214235860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want what is logical < 1214235872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to "statements modify the first register" < 1214235880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some syntaxes use "statements modify the last register" < 1214235891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what is the most common one? < 1214235899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1214235903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it differs from OS to OS < 1214235907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T is more common outside x86 isn't it? < 1214235911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows "statements modify the first register" is by far the most common < 1214235923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is linux < 1214235932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I haven't done much asm work on Linux < 1214235944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it is going to byte code < 1214235948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's two syntaxes used on Linux, depending upon your choice of assembler. < 1214235965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T syntax and Intel syntax. < 1214235972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yasm and nasm are only for x86/x86_64 right? < 1214235980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasm uses AT&T syntax, nasm uses Intel syntax. < 1214235982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Correct. < 1214235988 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, NASM uses 'first argument is destination'. GAS is configurable (defaults to 'last argument is destination). < 1214235988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T is gas (not gasm) < 1214235995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Correct. Thinko. < 1214236011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is AT&T more common on non-x86? < 1214236021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1214236024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it's used on SPARC IIRC < 1214236033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x86 is a minority right? < 1214236036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1214236052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that x86 is used everywhere. ;p < 1214236058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is still the most commonly used processor architecture on laptops/desktops nowadays < 1214236066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it's a minority in embedded systems < 1214236067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1214236073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it isn't used much in mainframes either < 1214236084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded: ARM is big < 1214236088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainframes are soley System/360 these days. < 1214236096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends < 1214236099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ! < 1214236107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about super computers? < 1214236114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I've used ARM, not at the assembly level though < 1214236118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't IBM's last using Cell processor + Opetrons < 1214236122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean both at once < 1214236130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not a mainframe, though. < 1214236144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is mainframe then? < 1214236184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mainframes specialize in stability, transaction integerity, I/O, etc... < 1214236185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think System z10, from IBM. < 1214236200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this isn't a technical definition, but I think of a computer system as being mainframe if it needs its own specially-designed room to be able to run without overheating < 1214236200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the modern iteration of the System/360 architecture) < 1214236216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's horrendously false. < 1214236222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1214236226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just how I think of it < 1214236243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your thoughts need scrubbed clean of that misconception. < 1214236251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k... so what is main frame? < 1214236254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like claiming a robot is your plastic pal that's fun to be with. < 1214236258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :servers? no x86 is fine there < 1214236266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but it is! < 1214236294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia: "Today in practice, the term usually refers to computers compatible with the IBM System/360 line, first introduced in 1965." < 1214236314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A computer that is designed for high throughput and high reliability. < 1214236320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm ok < 1214236327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, the IBM System/360 line. ;) < 1214236334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1214236349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia: "Historically 85% of all mainframe programs were written in the COBOL programming language" < 1214236353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1214236357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those systems are basically the only systems still being made that are designed for that. < 1214236373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This was in an era where COBOL was well-thought-of. < 1214236383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but most of that code's still used nowadays < 1214236391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it still works. < 1214236395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214236406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has probably been continuously running for a few decades. ;) < 1214236462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just found out that someone ported BancSTAR to Windows
< 1214236463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Broadway+&+Seymour%27s+WinPrism+To+Debut+in+Early+1997-a018763321 < 1214236469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently for a serious commercial reason < 1214236477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that code still works nowadays, too... < 1214236481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it did 11 years ago < 1214236482 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey folks < 1214236487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi RodgerTheGreat < 1214236498 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the haps my friends? < 1214236505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supercomputers, on the other hand, tend to be designed with whatever processor has good bang for the buck. < 1214236530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which varies depending upon how much money can be sunk into the supercomputer, and what's the best CPU at the time the computer is made. . . < 1214236549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, one sees everything from the Cell to a bunch of Opterons. . . < 1214236868 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. How many milliseconds would you figure it would take for network traffic to make a round-trip to the opposite side of the earth? < 1214236928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: not sure < 1214236938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if this specific computer is connected to Internet2. :p
< 1214236944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could find out by pinging somewhere on the opposite side of the earth < 1214236969 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214236979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1214237248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"will be back later" < 1214237422 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1214238140 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214238149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214238462 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214238827 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1214238995 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214239016 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214239078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1214239159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how often would you say it's a good idea to push patches to a publicly-visible server, when writing code in a distributed versioning system < 1214239191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do it quite often < 1214239199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I'm pushing code if it works < 1214239206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's a NOP because other bits of the code are missing < 1214239212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good, and "when I'm connected" < 1214239227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I work without internet, I can't push of course < 1214239231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's half an implementation of CREATEing operators in the C-INTERCAL repos at the moment < 1214239240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1214239242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, of course I don't push either if I don't have an Internet connection < 1214239253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets off to write the other half
< 1214239260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't commit if it crashes or such < 1214239265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this half should be easier because I'm more or less duplicating code that already exists < 1214239283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then interfunge? < 1214239290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe < 1214239303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if my bzr is new enough to download the cfunge sources yet < 1214239316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which command should I use to copy the repo? < 1214239317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge is mostly finished apart from: 1) some more fingerprints 2) replace hash library code < 1214239320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know bzr < 1214239326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec, isn't it on website? < 1214239336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, but I don't know where the website is < 1214239338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/ < 1214239347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hit in google on "cfunge" < 1214239348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214239354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214239371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1214239382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's working < 1214239455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? nice < 1214239457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may take a bit < 1214239462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1214239469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server is rather slow < 1214239471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :224 revisions is a lot < 1214239502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I prefer to commit small changes < 1214239507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to keep track of < 1214239509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1214239613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if a Befunge program's called from inside an INTERCAL program, what should y's list of command-line args return? < 1214239623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y? < 1214239631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the Befunge command < 1214239635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214239638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1214239639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214239644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know < 1214239654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure either < 1214239655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHERE IS MY TASKBAR!? < 1214239662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels lost without kicker
< 1214239666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is on the side < 1214239670 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps let the intercal program decide on that? < 1214239676 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, let you pass kinda args with that < 1214239681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ffi doesn't normally mess with command-line args < 1214239687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214239713 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffi? < 1214239720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the issue that giving args to the INTERCAL program may make it barf, because all C-INTERCAL programs accept some predefined args < 1214239721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, stfw? < 1214239725 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214239726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: foreign function interface < 1214239745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there's also the issue that giving args to the INTERCAL program may make it barf" <-- eh? < 1214239748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case, compiling and linking things to INTERCAL programs that weren't INTERCAL themselves < 1214239766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway arguments are not the arguments to the interpreter itself iirc? < 1214239772 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd say just pass the arguments the intercal program got, then < 1214239779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't been working on cfunge code for a few weeks
< 1214239792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: except that the intercal program errors on startup if it gets an arg it doesn't recognise < 1214239796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp accepts arguments < 1214239803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also generates programs that accept arguments < 1214239810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1214239815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all C-INTERCAL programs accept +wimpmode to turn on wimpmode, for instance < 1214239817 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.124.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214239821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1214239830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1214239846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1214239848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAARGH < 1214239852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well right I see. however < 1214239854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fungeargc = argc - optind;" < 1214239866 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i planned since I turned the computer on... < 1214239868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO NO AVAIL < 1214239870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ie, "discard all options from getopt < 1214239877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, planned what? < 1214239889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to beat him to welcoming me. we've battled over it since forever < 1214239890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to say hi to me before I said hi to him < 1214239897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214239915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: and that was normal human reaction time, although I was looking at the channel at the time, which gave me an advantage < 1214239922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so options to the befunge interepreter itself are *NOT* passed to the program < 1214239931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that makes sense < 1214239938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thus same should apply for interfunge I guess? < 1214239950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably < 1214239957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, not +wimpmode and such < 1214239959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there just needs to be some way to mark arguments as not being to the INTERCAL program < 1214239962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- or something like that < 1214239964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cfunge it is easy < 1214239972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses strict getopt < 1214239986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything before the file argument: to interpreter < 1214239991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything after: to program < 1214240002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program itself is passed as argument 0 < 1214240043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1214240918 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214240935 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214241723 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214241895 0 :ihope___!n=chatzill@pegcompaq.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1214241915 0 :ihope___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1214242152 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214242615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214242631 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214242735 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214243095 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214243266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1214243807 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214244243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might be insane. . . < 1214244253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you're here, so that's a good bet < 1214244258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what in particular did you have in mind? < 1214244263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday, I got fed up with Debian for getting in my way. . . < 1214244276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214244278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And went ahead and installed Gentoo, thinking "this is much easier to use". < 1214244285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214244292 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NOT ANOTHER GENTOO USER < 1214244295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, fine; so I know Gentoo like the back of my hand) < 1214244396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: What's wrong with Gentoo? < 1214244417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214244556 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1214244706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, gentoo rocks < 1214244708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gentoo < 1214244718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees
< 1214244719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FreeBSD and Arch Linux < 1214244730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using Gentoo for 3 or 4 years. . . < 1214244731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My top list: < 1214244733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Gentoo < 1214244735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) FreeBSD < 1214244738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Arch Linux < 1214244743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Slackware < 1214244757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just recently had Debian on one specific box here which I need to use for the next couple of months. . . < 1214244763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got fed up with it. Wheee. < 1214244768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf) Crap^W^W^W^W^WCentOS < 1214244772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 Slackware.
< 1214244789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a long time I was used to using OSs which are pretty much worse than any modern Linux or UNIX deriviative < 1214244798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so generally I'm happy with most Linuces < 1214244798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't use it, I shall always adore it. < 1214244798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ones? < 1214244813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows (back to 3.1), ancient version of SunOS < 1214244820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the BBC Micro, but I rather liked that < 1214244823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only right for one to adore one's first distro. ;) < 1214244886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this is the first Linux-based system I've owned < 1214244890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it runs Ubuntu, as it happens < 1214244906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the package system to be nice, but the community to be terribly unresponsive < 1214244990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet mother of God. < 1214245000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo 2008.0 release in a week, folks. < 1214245030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I honestly prefer the Gentoo community. Has some assholes, but most people are genuinely helpful. < 1214245048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Debian were very responsive when I filed patches with them, but it depends on which maintainer you get < 1214245056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for the retards. Those are usually obvious. 'OMG! USE CFLAGS="-funroll-loops"!' < 1214245069 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu's community is awful. < 1214245075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's your opinion on -funroll-loops? < 1214245079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X's is worse, though. :-P < 1214245084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The website? Hilarious. < 1214245092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, the compiler option < 1214245096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1214245105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://funroll-loops.info/ < 1214245107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know there was a website with that name < 1214245107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punishable by death. < 1214245124 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a parody of gentoo users < 1214245135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've used that option on microcontroller code before, but I could still beat the result by writing asm by hand < 1214245141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is funroll-loops retarded? < 1214245149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It pretty much guarantees an insanely long compile time, and insanely large binary, and a whole hell of a lot of cache misses. < 1214245161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it has this annoying tendency of breaking shit. < 1214245187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which language can I write notary2html in to anger you the most? < 1214245189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and\ insanely/an\ insanely/ < 1214245198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, in my case, I was using a system with ROM = several kB, RAM = a few hundred bytes < 1214245203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no cache < 1214245228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's only sane in a few selected cases, where the user knows WTF he's doing. < 1214245240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I hope that was one of them < 1214245245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, say, someone who wrote the code. ;) < 1214245255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to put it into context, in this project I had the source open in one window and the asm output in another < 1214245265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kept tweaking the source until the asm was as good as it could make it < 1214245275 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was a question >:( < 1214245275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases that wasn't good enough so I just wrote it in inline asm < 1214245279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sort of project it was < 1214245283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. That's about when you should be trying -funroll-loops. < 1214245302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People will actually try to use that system-wide. < 1214245322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway, don't say "never use -funroll-loops" < 1214245344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it as "don't use -funroll-loops for bash. don't use -funroll-loops for gcc. don't use -funroll-loops for..." listing every single package in the repo < 1214245350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may get the point across < 1214245357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better to say that than risk some n00b thinking that it's a good idea. . . < 1214245381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. "Don't use -funroll-loops unless you're prepared to do a good look over the resulting assembly." < 1214245402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ais523's way is funnier, though < 1214245407 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-90-203.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214245409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because you'd need to do it in multiple parts < 1214245410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1214245413 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'd be too big for a message... < 1214245418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were in irssi. . . < 1214245460 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gcc just sucks yes? < 1214245469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /exec -o foreach i in /usr/portage/*/*;echo "Don't use -funroll-loops for $i.";done < 1214245531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: No, GCC is great. The only problem with it is the retards who don't look through the documentation and note that a lot of the optimization flags say "This can break shit.". < 1214245551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should they break shit? < 1214245568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're useful in some select cases. . . < 1214245570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's that 'great' that they break shit, documented or not :-P < 1214245587 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host24-87-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1214245588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bit about breaking stuff? The only way those can work involve some other things breaking. < 1214245593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they only break things in certain situations which shouldn't exist in the first place < 1214245597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that people assume will work anyway < 1214245621 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1214245621 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1214245625 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they shouldn't break ansi-conforming code? < 1214245645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: they shouldn't, I don't know whether they do but they shouldn't < 1214245662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as using threads (yes, there have been cases of optimizations that work fine single-threaded, but introduce races or pessimize performance in multi-threaded programs)? < 1214245700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I was noting that I hadn't seen Ilari in here before < 1214245704 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the person i dragged here from #git < 1214245709 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[he/her] < 1214245729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Ilari was here earlier making useful comments, when you weren't here < 1214245737 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed, in the logs < 1214245748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's twin, I guess. :-P < 1214245787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, maybe collecting useful ideas for his third esolang... :-) < 1214245805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fairly large amount of the flags that break things involve floating point. < 1214245822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: floating point's interestingly specified in C99 anyway < 1214245824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those flags tend to involve reducing precision. . . < 1214245835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm not sure how much it says about precision < 1214245843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are preprocessor defines that give information on the floating-point model < 1214245869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, IIRC there are some optimisations that break floating-point programs by using too much precision < 1214245878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 finnish people here < 1214245887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally that isn't a problem, but if you're relying on precision working exactly as in the spec there is < 1214245902 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon we shall take over the world < 1214245904 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean irc < 1214245905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some of the flags that break things are marked as experimental. Now, I've got to wonder why the fuck those are in stable GCC. . . < 1214245933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember which country IRC originated in
< 1214245949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was somewhere in Europe, possibly Scandinavia, IIRC < 1214245982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: switzerland < 1214245989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh no < 1214245990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland < 1214245991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fi < 1214245993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: lucky you < 1214246001 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this guy < 1214246001 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kumpu.org/ < 1214246009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet he doesn't actually use irc < 1214246027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890 < 1214246044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brilliant < 1214246049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that gets me is that someone actually filed that bug... < 1214246054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not suprised. < 1214246062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo users can be unbearable < 1214246109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said: there are retards. < 1214246111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow... < 1214246116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those retards are really retarded. < 1214246117 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was filed by the lead maintainer of pidgin < 1214246123 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1214246147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Jebus. < 1214246151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda. . . Stupid. < 1214246171 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same program that got forked due to 'gnome disease'? < 1214246172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not suprised that #gaim had tons of gentoo users coming in and complaining when it was their fault < 1214246183 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that fork is pretty stupid, to be honest < 1214246189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: gnome disease? < 1214246194 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{This has to be worst initial contact I think anybody could have made. Not sure I expect much more out of somebody that codes for AOL software.} <-- LOL WUT < 1214246201 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because gaim has a close and friendly relationship with AOL! < 1214246208 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AOL totally didn't try and stop them providing a FOSS client. Nope. < 1214246243 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{This is blasphemy, and just proves there are people with way to much time on their hands. If you got a problem, don't bitch on bugzilla, we have better things to do then listen to your incessant whining.} < 1214246245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS BLASPHEMY < 1214246264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, spamming bugzilla with complaints and nontechnical stuff can really annoy devs very quickly < 1214246272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refers to thinking that "users are idiots" and can't handle more advanced behaviour, even as configuration option. < 1214246275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I have wikimedia bugzilla recent changes piped to my email < 1214246288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124595 Heh < 1214246302 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read about some of the problems the Quod Libet dev had with gentoo users < 1214246302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: luckily I think Gnome's recovering from that, but I am upset that it doesn't provide access to the screensaver settings at all < 1214246304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty stupid stuff < 1214246324 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have fixed those file dialogs yet? < 1214246364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what in particular do you think is wrong with them, I can check, I'm on Gnome right now < 1214246368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: If one could just get rid of certain retards, then all would be well in the world. < 1214246377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're almost as bad as Ubuntu users. :p < 1214246400 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are almost as bad as OS X users. < 1214246417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there _is_ a good sized chunk of sane, reasonable, non-fanboy OS X users < 1214246420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1214246423 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to pretend I'm part of it. :-P < 1214246493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think a reasonable user shouldn't have much trouble with any reasonable OS < 1214246506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes most Linux distros, OS X, and the BSDs < 1214246514 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One fun thing to do. You are using Firefox (or some rebranded version of it). You run across some new file type and want to bind it to some other application. Ok, now type path of the application binary (in /usr/bin/ of course) to that file dialog, and watch as application freezes for long time... < 1214246519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Windows when it's been heavily customised to make it bearable, but normally that isn't worth the effort < 1214246532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that bug's still there, I think < 1214246542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'd love to, except I use Konqueror. :p < 1214246563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1214246619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in the last month or so, I've used Firefox 3, Firefox 2, Firefox 1.5, Epiphany, Konqueror, IE7, possibly IE6, Mozilla, and probably w3m < 1214246663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch? < 1214246673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's not that bad when you're used to it < 1214246682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've got pretty good at adapting to new browsers as a result < 1214246805 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My standard complement of browsers is Iceweasel (Debian rebranded Firefox) and Links2 (the text-mode browser with graphical mode). < 1214246862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have Firefox 3rc1 on here as my main browser, Konq for looking at things linked from IRC, and Epiphany for when Firefox 3rc1 is hitting the fsync bug because Ubuntu haven't got around to packaging rc2 yet < 1214246868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I use w3m from text mode sometimes < 1214246876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can change konversation to use firefox you know < 1214246888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and rc2? ff3 is out :-P < 1214246897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: rc2 is ff3 < 1214246906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just renamed the package < 1214246909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, rc3 is < 1214246915 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly only changed on os x < 1214246917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't realise there was a third < 1214246924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc3 == rc2 except for some OS X fixes < 1214246929 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214246930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rc2 and ff3, on Windows at least, have the same md5 sum I think < 1214246940 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1214246944 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninstall.exe changed from rc2->rc3 < 1214246947 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly < 1214246958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it's just the sum of some bit of it < 1214246976 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does FF3 final display yellow address bar on (non-EV) HTTPS sites? < 1214246998 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, fun: Write random sentences into a .com file and run it < 1214247001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when on a Windows computer (say if I'm on one of the university's public computers), I end up using a mix of Firefox versions (some run FF2, some run FF1.5), and normally use IE as the secondary browser < 1214247005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently 'Fuck you all' gives you an unclosable dos box < 1214247020 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such fun! < 1214247026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just to provide email notifications < 1214247028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: shut up - this is #esoteric < 1214247033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also to log onto a website with multiple users at once < 1214247048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can shell into CDE on SunOS and use ancient Mozilla < 1214247068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that accounts for most of the browsers < 1214247075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think one of my computers at home has IE4 < 1214247080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't connected to the internet anyway < 1214247116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that program contains nice stuff like OUTSD and INSB (I/O hardware banging)... < 1214247124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh, fun: Write random sentences into a .com file and run it < 1214247131 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may also run off the end and execute garabage. < 1214247135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disassemble it! < 1214247141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Cool. < 1214247147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowercase letters don't disassemble on x86, I think < 1214247153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then type it in uppercase < 1214247157 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR WAR < 1214247170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I never dared to run any of my MiniMAX interps < 1214247175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which were each hand-coded in machine code < 1214247180 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, uppercase letters contain tame stuff such as INC, DEC, PUSH and POP... < 1214247185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I never got around to writing any MiniMAX programs < 1214247198 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: bah < 1214247199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was MiniMAX? < 1214247199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1214247207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX < 1214247208 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this disassemble, Ilari? < 1214247210 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global Thermonuclear War < 1214247216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was my attempt at golfing interps < 1214247229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an example interp right at the bottom < 1214247263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an unrelated machine-language thing, I wrote a program in C that took a binary file as input and compiled it into a .COM file which output that binary file as output < 1214247268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that the .COM file was plaintext < 1214247275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. all the characters in it were printable < 1214247295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: awesome < 1214247302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT such a program has to be self-modifying as there's no way to do a loop otherwise < 1214247326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: do you have access to a Windows or DOS box? I'll paste a .COM program that outputs the relevant C file, if you like < 1214247338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't, but I have Parallels. < 1214247345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has XP on. < 1214247356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wrote an obfuscated version of it too < 1214247363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's fiendishly clever. < 1214247373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of submitting it to the IOCCC on the basis that it was unclear what the program did even after it was run < 1214247377 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste the file, though < 1214247383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be even more impressed if it only used BIOS calls. < 1214247403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1214247407 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INC EDI; INSB; OUTSD; BOUND ESP, [ECX + 0x6C]; AND [EAX+2*EBP+0x65],DL; JC 0x79; OUTSD; OUTSB; JNZ 0x73; INSB; [GS-seg-override]POPAD; JC 0x35; PUSH EDI; POPAD; JC 0x23 < 1214247462 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214247463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/ugQVGm20.html < 1214247489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the A5 at the end is me signing the program < 1214247496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say it was made by me < 1214247511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, the output isn't as dense as uucode < 1214247520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it alternates between encoding 6 bits and encoding 2 bits IIRC < 1214247522 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP_W^VH%35%DCPYXPH%=5%=CP[]UM#(UX%??t&* * * * ZR 1() !GFF=\ouU0_0<0^3L1L0^292L1^1Q1L2Y1D1\3R3P0A3B2D0<1p3p3o11131p3>2D0<3:0<18253<2:170D021p3D0>0A0D0<183<3:1:1D0432041p24143o031p2D0p331o0A2D0B2A3I1J2I1J2D321124310o13031D0=0p3o0302113A220=2I1J2I1J22112o0D011412112B02112o0D042A0D0432041p2B2B2D0o2B1I1J2n3I1J2p231o0o1p212D0B042=0?0B1B2B042B242A142B1B2B042A1@2B1=342B3@1m0m032p0o1o0p3B0D2<2@090@061@1;0@15050@382@380@0D2A0B0o2132130B2B1@263o251B1A042A1@3=342B3@3=3 < 1214247525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA < 1214247526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bwahahah. < 1214247529 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realise it was that big < 1214247535 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what does it do < 1214247538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, it's more than an IRC line < 1214247542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only the first part of the program < 1214247545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are no line breaks < 1214247563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be, really, but that's harder to do < 1214247565 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214247569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps one could make a uucode decoder that only uses printable characters? < 1214247581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, my idea was that you encode a uucode decoder in that < 1214247596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it possible to bootstrap uudecode across a plain-text link < 1214247601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1214247613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1214247619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's possible to do the same in ELF
< 1214247623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. Now you're making me want to bootstrap Linux from DOS. < 1214247627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the elf header... < 1214247637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it necessarily contain nonprintables? < 1214247639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was wondering about < 1214247647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tends to contains NULs. < 1214247648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably that code would get GPF in that INSB instruction, and if it somehow clears those two HW banging instructions, that bound instruction is likely to either cause page fault or bound exceeded. < 1214247651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I don't really know, but I would think it does < 1214247673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the program would have to be 0x20202020 bytes long or something silly like that < 1214247692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hah or on x86_64 BOUND cause illegal opcode iirc < 1214247724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah yeah < 1214247728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge in other words < 1214247743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Run it! :P < 1214247749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd also need to make the thing load at something silly, like 0x20202020. < 1214247777 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Likely Not possible. Last 12 bits must be clear in mmap address. < 1214247780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: extracted the original C yet? < 1214247790 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I'm not starting xp. :P < 1214247793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1214247797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: ah, ok < 1214247798 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Wonder what signal the task is going to get (its task, not process, since its hardware fault signal) if BOUND traps? < 1214247802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how are you running random .COM files/ < 1214247803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mayb. < 1214247804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1214247805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not now. < 1214247814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not. < 1214247819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hand execution. < 1214247827 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sssh! That's a SECRET! < 1214247830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has an idea
< 1214247845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION applauds tusho for his x86 and DOS knowledge
< 1214247875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity, it seems not to work in Wine < 1214247882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wine isn't very good at DOS support AFAICT < 1214247896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wine only supports Win16 and up. < 1214247897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't implement all the corner cases < 1214247906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what amount of DOS is needed for Win16, of course. < 1214247912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dosbox? < 1214247915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I take advantage of the fact that the stack starts with a single 0 < 1214247917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which happens to exclude a ton of corner cases. < 1214247925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Try Dosemu. < 1214247933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes or dosbox < 1214247946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, though I just prefer DOSemu. < 1214247959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that signal is sig #11: SIGSEGV. < 1214248073 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214248101 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1214248103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1214248115 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:08] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523_: 8 seconds. < 1214248118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1214248154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an interesting question: if you distribute the binaries for a GPL quine, do you have to provide sources too? < 1214248212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd better ask the FSF :P < 1214248232 0 :jix!n=jix@p5489D13F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214248240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1214248247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the binary counts as a distribution. < 1214248248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1214248422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, apparently it does run in DosBOX < 1214248426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1214248436 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you don't have an appropriate system < 1214248462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you don't have an appropriate decompression system? < 1214248481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say that someone is shipping sources as tar.gz. Should they not be allowed to do that since you don't have tar installed? < 1214248497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let them ship it as self-extracting uucode instead < 1214248806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION managed to misread pikhq as "PSOX"
< 1214248815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214248882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how? < 1214248890 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because all he ever thinks about is PSOX < 1214248895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of its dead/alive status :-P < 1214248920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is the funniest guy ever :P < 1214248968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i read that as gay < 1214248971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1214248974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much augur exposure < 1214249141 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho is the funniest guy ever :P < 1214249179 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT GAY < 1214249180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o, wait < 1214249227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha you CRACK me up < 1214249242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jeez, that was terrible < 1214249248 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1214249287 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible joke day < 1214249299 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's next? < 1214249549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the jokes are that bad, I don't want to be involved < 1214249602 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zing* < 1214249632 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214249674 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :involved carries some connotations of having sex, and you did refer to a butt with your "that". < 1214249696 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you pretty much doubled the funniness of my joke. < 1214249713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's fine, it made no difference, your joke wasn't funny to begin with < 1214249730 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*0 == 0 you know < 1214249779 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hard time believing you < 1214249783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it, hard? < 1214249786 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, sorry < 1214249791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be going now! -> < 1214249826 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you don't wanna get *tied up* < 1214249931 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214250060 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! :D < 1214250067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi psygnisfive < 1214250079 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey :) < 1214250083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur. < 1214250091 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup guys < 1214250094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1214250608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cfunge is seriously overengineered < 1214250613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it does what I want it to < 1214250628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out in my head what recursively invoking it from inside itself would do, without running it < 1214250695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is? < 1214250699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean? < 1214250702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and in response to your question on the ? commands: the top bits of a random-number generator are more random than the bottom bits on some algorithms, but as you're using random() rather than rand() I think it doesn't matter < 1214250716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all the compiler hints, defines for several different sorts of inlining, and so on < 1214250727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh yes < 1214250737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and restrict on function args, which I've never seen in a serious program before, which is surprising because it really ought to be used more often < 1214250754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see memcpy prototype in system headers < 1214250761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen the posix_ stuff he uses? < 1214250777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I know, memcpy's pretty much the stock example for restrict < 1214250779 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't know what kind of state of mind he has when coding a _befunge interpreter_, but I think it might involve illegal substances < 1214250800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: there's nothing wrong with hideously overengineering a Funge interp, in fact that seems to me to be part of the point < 1214250802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lols
< 1214250807 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not a funge interp < 1214250809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just does befunge < 1214250815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yet < 1214250815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably unefunge too < 1214250817 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which surprises me considering the rest of it < 1214250822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't hard to adopt < 1214250823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it would likely be simple to change < 1214250828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes you could do unefunge < 1214250835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but simply removing some instructions < 1214250839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "not using them" < 1214250867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just change | v ^ w and a few more to reflect and you got unefunge, a small change in the loading routine too < 1214250869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you have to alter how many things are popped for certain instructions which pop vectors < 1214250876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh yes true < 1214250878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that hard < 1214250884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not that hard at all < 1214250897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as almost all things that pop vectors pop a fungeVector * < 1214250911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main complication with merging cfunge and C-INTERCAL strikes me as being identifier clashes < 1214250920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ORTH fingerprint is an exception < 1214250931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that could be avoided by catting together all the files that make up cfunge and staticing all the variables, but I'm not sure < 1214250939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? well it wasn't coded to avoid name space clashes < 1214250945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1214250949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well you will need some more compiler hints < 1214250962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were just a single file, then that could be avoided by file-scoping all the variables < 1214250969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks C needs a directory scope
< 1214250974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1214250984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well doesn't intercal always use ick_ prefix? < 1214250989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know I don't use that < 1214250992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in publically visible identifiers, yes < 1214251013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking of the idea of using C-INTERCAL as glue to link a C program to a befunge program < 1214251024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway catting together all would have some downsides < 1214251043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like patches to upstream would be a hell < 1214251047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, I expected that < 1214251048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for updating to newer version < 1214251052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? < 1214251053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking about catting with a script < 1214251059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1214251062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1214251065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then filescoping the variables could be difficult < 1214251072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it fail? < 1214251074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could < 1214251075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what are you referring to with your question? < 1214251084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I haven't tried to run it yet, I'm just browsing the source < 1214251085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know it works with gcc -combie < 1214251087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine* < 1214251090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an INTERCAL implementation of Befunge or something? < 1214251094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have done gcc combine < 1214251106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, HOWEVER there may be clashing static variables inside the current files < 1214251111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got no idea whatsoever < 1214251113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, but C-INTERCAL has an ffi to C, and I'm working with AnMaster to give it an ffi to Befunge < 1214251123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*. < 1214251126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense now. < 1214251129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using AnMaster's cfunge interp combined with a modified version of the C ffi < 1214251151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and as you can see I even use doxygen in a lot of places < 1214251162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... one thing I'd like to do at some point is change the C-INTERCAL libraries from statically linked to dynamically linked < 1214251168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was mainly to make 3rd party fingerprints easier < 1214251174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yuk could just be a shared object, and cfunge could be too < 1214251205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could work, but you would need some compiler hints, __attribute__((visibility("hidden")) and such < 1214251215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for the __attribute__ defines there is a very simple reason < 1214251224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doxygen puked if I didn't do it that way < 1214251241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thought __attribute__((printf,blah)) was a function prototype < 1214251247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you define the __attribute__ away for non-gcc compilers, or does it fail if you don't? < 1214251253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/don't/do/ < 1214251254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do define it away < 1214251258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in global.h < 1214251264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doxygen still puked on it < 1214251270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did just define it away before < 1214251275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doxygen :/ < 1214251289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does visibility do? < 1214251295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know next to nothing about shared objects < 1214251304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, make sure a symbol isn't exported dynamically < 1214251305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made some DLLs in Windows once, but that's about it < 1214251309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid name clashes < 1214251328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows dlls are very different < 1214251330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, that's pretty much what I was looking to do here < 1214251337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid name clashes when importing the library < 1214251345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, HOWEVER visibility is gcc specific < 1214251347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case between the C code and the cfunge code < 1214251351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a linker script too iirc < 1214251356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom linker script < 1214251366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is also pretty non-portable < 1214251370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only portable way is static < 1214251379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cfunge already uses static where it can more or less < 1214251400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the ffi requires gcc at the moment < 1214251406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got no idea what you need to export < 1214251408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I rely on some of the details of how its preprocessor works < 1214251417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *pukes* < 1214251421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214251424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm portable < 1214251430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I, for most things < 1214251433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just offer advantages when gcc is used < 1214251440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything works as long as it isn't windows < 1214251454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to prevent having to parse C, my ffi-to-C relies on the preprocessor being reinvokable < 1214251455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see instructions/sysinfo.c for some funny windows #defines) < 1214251470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, that it's possible to run the preprocessor over already-preprocessed files without issues < 1214251489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what happens if an ffi'd file has a #error directive in it
< 1214251490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1214251533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well as far as I can see you just need to export a few functions. all of them probably custom written to call existing functions? < 1214251559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's the idea < 1214251574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check ick_ec.h to see how many functions might be needed < 1214251580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for the funge-space.c, everything except the public interface (funge-space.h) may change dramatically, without prior notice < 1214251597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's fii? < 1214251601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm ffi? < 1214251604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, google? < 1214251616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fii = the next generation of wii! < 1214251618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Fark, Firefox being generally nonresponsive < 1214251631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, !! < 1214251654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, I think cfunge may only actually need to expose one function < 1214251665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which follows my C-INTERCAL ffi API < 1214251666 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214251681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll have to use a lot more than one function < 1214251704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google unhelpful < 1214251717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using Boehm, so I don't have to worry about memory deallocation when arbitrarily obliterating bits of stack < 1214251721 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1214251727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all funge-space updates are atomic, right? < 1214251733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1214251740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? < 1214251744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuclear explosions, every one < 1214251748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, say you start running a custom fingerprint command < 1214251762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it true that before the command runs, fungespace is completely up-to-date < 1214251765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're using Boehm, so I don't have to worry about memory deallocation when arbitrarily obliterating bits of stack <-- um < 1214251772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may not in future < 1214251777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on dropping it < 1214251784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the issues it cause with portability < 1214251788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that nothing will go wrong if I decide to longjmp downwards < 1214251789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some random bugs too < 1214251801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it true that before the command runs, fungespace is completely up-to-date <-- well I think so < 1214251810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if the CPU got write-through cache or whatever < 1214251815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no memory barriers < 1214251816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not an issue here < 1214251823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'll be sequenced < 1214251830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't try to do INTERCAL + concurrent Funge < 1214251834 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :george carlin died :( < 1214251844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well even with concurrent funge that shouldn't be an issue < 1214251846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the problem that Claudio observed in C-INTERCAL < 1214251865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use pthreads < 1214251873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something like "This error occurs when you were trying to merge together two multithreaded programs, and the interpreter couldn't decide which thread in one program should connect to which thread in the other" < 1214251878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not how concurrent funge works in the specs < 1214251888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I know, INTERCAL threading's similar < 1214251902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't do ffi and INTERCAL threading simultaneously, because setjmp isn't call/cc < 1214251920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't jump up the stack, only down < 1214251945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1214251959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think setjmp is horrible hack but oh well < 1214251960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I think probably the craziest thing I'm likely to do is to reinvoke the interp from inside a fingerprint, then longjmp down from the nested version of the interp to the original < 1214251971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "reinvoke the interp from inside a fingerprint" < 1214251974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C setjmp == INTERCAL FORGET, almost exactly < 1214251975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may or may not work < 1214251980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got absolutely no idea < 1214251983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's why I was looking at the code so carefully < 1214251986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ it will < 1214251997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well funge space is a static variable < 1214252000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidden in funge-space.c < 1214252001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything's either a global or stored in the IP object < 1214252018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes
< 1214252021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't think it'll be possible to link to more than one Befunge program at once without duplicating cfunge < 1214252039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and note that funge-space.c is likely to be totally changed quite soon (this summer) to use some other, faster, hash library. As that is the bottle neck currently < 1214252048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I lack the knowledge for it really < 1214252066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the public interface will be the same < 1214252077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding a "load from string" shouldn't be that hard < 1214252083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck it would be easier than load from file < 1214252097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as for performance, one thing I need to optimise is searching for a particular character in Funge-space < 1214252106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that could cause issues of its own < 1214252119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214252120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone happens to store an M in fungespace using p/g for its ASCII value, rather than as a command < 1214252128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is not known for being COME FROM-friendly < 1214252129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1214252131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why M? < 1214252135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Middle < 1214252139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I add trefunge < 1214252143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I might in future < 1214252144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214252206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what I'm planning at the moment for semantics: < 1214252219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a character M, for a Marker, which specifies where communications with INTERCAL happen < 1214252227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214252228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214252235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically from each direction from the M, you have a Befunge program < 1214252237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you plan to load it? < 1214252241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a file or a string? < 1214252247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably a string literal < 1214252251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214252255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be *that* hard < 1214252258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders
< 1214252288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty simple if you just load it once (see FungeSpaceLoad(), and make a variat) < 1214252312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, loading is unlikely to be the hard part < 1214252317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you plan to load more than one you probably want a variant of the less optimized FungeSpaceLoadAtOffset() < 1214252333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the idea is that there is a subprogram from M in each direction < 1214252340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I see < 1214252341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it terminates at another fingerprint character < 1214252345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1214252345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another M is a NOP < 1214252352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you said M? right < 1214252354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do, say >M to close the M off from the left < 1214252357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there is a problem < 1214252358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214252360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1214252362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you use say ROMA? < 1214252369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a funge string with M in it < 1214252380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AMOR"( < 1214252382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the first problem's just a typical fingerprint clash < 1214252384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to load ROMA < 1214252390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second I haven't thought of a good solution to < 1214252402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ROMA defines an M instruction < 1214252414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you search for M then you will have issues I think? < 1214252417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but fingerprints clash sometimes, the INTERCAL program will have its own fingerprint defining M < 1214252427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but searching could be an issue < 1214252433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should instead use a nonexistent character < 1214252433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1214252442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's remembered by coordinates < 1214252444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything non-printable will work < 1214252451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mostly < 1214252453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because of p and g being used to store numbers < 1214252458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1214252468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I done that myself < 1214252477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to represent a nonexistent character in the source, though < 1214252483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... this is harder than I thought < 1214252483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um nor am I < 1214252511 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so seriously < 1214252514 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :william moseley = HOT < 1214252518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't give up! < 1214252520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ! < 1214252535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe write the source in some rich-text format, and the marker is a bold M < 1214252545 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214252550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw fingerprint spec file format docs are in doc/somewhere iirc < 1214252559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I've read them < 1214252560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be reasonably straight forward < 1214252564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doc/* actually because doc only contains one file < 1214252583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh yes it does, I have some more unfinished latex files locally < 1214252592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214252684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls doc/ < 1214252684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprints fingerprintspecformat.txt frontend-prococol.pdf frontend-prococol.tex prot-ideas.txt standard-docs < 1214252702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint is my own copies of docs for fingerprints < 1214252708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but copyright on those docs < 1214252711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you never know < 1214252715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm careful < 1214252720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, makes sense < 1214252728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls doc/fingerprints < 1214252728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynafing.txt ext_FPSP.txt ext_SCKE.txt ext_SOCK.txt jesseexts.txt rcfunge.html < 1214252728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm careful with copyright too < 1214252740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point I even emailed Debian to ask them the copyright on the C-INTERCAL man page they wrote < 1214252748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what did they say? < 1214252756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mad with it too so... < 1214252767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they said that it was GPL2, like the rest of the distribution < 1214252771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214252771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2+ < 1214252773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise < 1214252785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, note that cfunge is *GPL3* < 1214252789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's fine < 1214252802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no problems linking to GPL3 libraries frm a GPL2+ program, it just produces a GPL3 result < 1214252818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214252824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no problems distributing GPL3 sources and GPL2 sources in the same tarball either, with a linker script that links them together < 1214252831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1214252835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your is GPL2+ right? < 1214252840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214252844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yours is GPL3+? < 1214252850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I inherited GPL2+ as the licence < 1214252854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there was no real reason to change it < 1214252865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1214252867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214252873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gpl3+ with proxy < 1214252882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see details in file headers < 1214252887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gpl3 < 1214252895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically I don't trust GNU < 1214252896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1214252901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still linkable-against < 1214252906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL4 *could* be madness < 1214252908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1214252909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to ask you for an update if and when GPL4 comes out < 1214252913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but until then, no problems < 1214252920 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gpl3 is madness < 1214252920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1214252921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1214252928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well that is questionable < 1214252936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly agree it is a bit on the long side < 1214252945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the length that worries me! < 1214252950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh? < 1214252955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the content? < 1214252967 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214252978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1214253005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand what everything's in there for, I think < 1214253016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the GPL3 looks good to me at furthering the aims of the GPL < 1214253023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that tusho agrees with the aims of the GPL, though < 1214253040 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'not convinced'? Awesome understatement :-P < 1214253042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not necessarily a bad thing < 1214253069 0 :Slereah2!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-32-159.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214253077 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL literally caused more deaths than the Indonesian tsunami < 1214253081 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER HAVE I BEEN MORE FURIOUS OR ORANGE < 1214253091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: really? Pics or it didn't happen < 1214253096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: likewise < 1214253111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1214253137 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't joke, ais523 < 1214253147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: what are you furious at? < 1214253147 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grand mother was killed by the GPL. < 1214253153 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My connection. < 1214253172 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: look, they killed thousands of free software users and one jew: http://www.mideastweb.org/coffins2.jpg < 1214253200 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the free software users? < 1214253203 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1214253208 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1214253215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: tusho: please, I was having an interesting conversation with AnMaster before this got into an argument about the GPL < 1214253224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually I find this rather funny < 1214253225 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1214253231 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the interesting conversation? < 1214253232 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, we can multi-converse < 1214253232 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1214253240 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: brilliant < 1214253241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: we were discussing linking Befunge and INTERCAL < 1214253254 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, the interfuge business. < 1214253265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, interfunge is a Befunge-93 interp written in INTERCAL < 1214253267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interfunge then < 1214253270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in the C-INTERCAL distributions < 1214253274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214253274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that name's already taken < 1214253278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do we call it? < 1214253283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffungi? < 1214253285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1214253285 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Becal? < 1214253290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1214253291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I actually kind of like that < 1214253301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it got one f too many < 1214253303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1214253310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't named the INTERCAL <-> C ffi yet < 1214253319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just call it "external calls to C" in the C-INTERCAL docs < 1214253321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpiffi? < 1214253323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1214253332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise "external calls to Befunge" is likely the name I'll use in the docs for that < 1214253335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spiffy if you can't read it) < 1214253336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1214253348 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214253349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I liked fffungi better < 1214253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that was for c < 1214253373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214253376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the p for? < 1214253383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, to make it looks like spiffy < 1214253385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214253386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1214253400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a != s < 1214253404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why did you just mention SimonRC? typo on tab-complete? < 1214253409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed typo < 1214253414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and s are next to each other < 1214253427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai vs. si < 1214253443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'd guessed a vs. s, I hadn't realised about the is though < 1214253452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :si < 1214253454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not is < 1214253456 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAB STAB < 1214253466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is was the plural of i in my last statement < 1214253468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is = beep < 1214253469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1214253479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1214253490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw hot in here, will be back with a fan shortly < 1214253556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1214253572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is raining - and this is supposedly _the_ day of the year for bonfires in norway < 1214253588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the problem still remains of how to do COME FROM in Befunge < 1214253596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst still being able to use g and p, and string literals < 1214253654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1214253659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1214253666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not use out of band data? < 1214253677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems only sane solution to me < 1214253679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking along those lines myself < 1214253687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem then is how to specify it in the source < 1214253695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1214253708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you still need to be able to represent the data in text form < 1214253717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can actually write a ComeFromFunge program < 1214253725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1214253736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1214253747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric: there are enough ingenious esoprogrammers here, surely someone can think up a good way to do COME FROM in Funge-98 < 1214253747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you want to add new come from points at runtime? < 1214253754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course, or it wouldn't be Befunge < 1214253766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a fingerprint with two instructions < 1214253770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call them X and Y < 1214253778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = register new come frome point < 1214253784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y = deregister existing < 1214253793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the chars to better ones < 1214253800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I concluded for modifying the out-of-band data < 1214253804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take a vector < 1214253812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever else you need < 1214253823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about initially specifying the locations? < 1214253836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure how do plan to include funge source in the intercal source < 1214253841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea depends on that < 1214253850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reminded of Lisp's variable vs. function contents
< 1214253852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a separate file? or in-band data? < 1214253853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by linking a .i file to a .b98 file < 1214253868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like I link .i and .c files at current < 1214253876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well cfunge is happy to run befunge93 too < 1214253884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the future 108 < 1214253894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still working on that standard
< 1214253902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, Unix year naming < 1214253908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :years-since-epoch and all that < 1214253911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, by request of author yes < 1214253916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :years since 1900 < 1214253924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is by request of original author < 1214253927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the format that the relevant syscall returns in IIRC < 1214253933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214254007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway for intitial data, maybe specify it in the intercal file in some way? < 1214254011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1214254017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of collection of Y2K buggy year printing routines... They worked correctly for 1910-1999, but try 2000 and they blew up nicely... < 1214254020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yuck, that's not a good way to do it < 1214254036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: some websites think the year's 19108 right now < 1214254039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't yuck the debugger? < 1214254040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ???? < 1214254044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are confusing me! < 1214254046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214254047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the debugger's actually called yuk < 1214254052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but much the same name < 1214254060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214254061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1214254066 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Let's say that some of those routines printed stuff much more bizarre than that... < 1214254077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I wouldn't be surprised < 1214254077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or maybe specify that you will start at 42,42 and run to end of line, allowing to set initial breakpoints < 1214254084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.1 file manager would print the year as 19:8 < 1214254103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah? < 1214254113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: '9'+1==':' in C and ASCII < 1214254120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214254123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1214254126 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, one that would print 2008 as 19:8 was among those routines... < 1214254154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: how many of them hardcoded the 19? < 1214254187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you have a link? < 1214254327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1214254349 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, no link. But I found the code... < 1214254359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not always. < 1214254367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't specify the character set in use. < 1214254378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, did that lead to trouble? < 1214254378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some ISO C environments use EBDIC. < 1214254385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does specify that 0-9 are in order, though < 1214254398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBCDIC, rather. < 1214254399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why I specifically mentioned ASCII in my comment above < 1214254408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1214254415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, a-f also are in order in EBCDIC < 1214254418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a-z < 1214254458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is weird < 1214254468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not logical < 1214254477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the letters form a little rectangle on a 16x16 character set IIRC < 1214254477 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are apparently a lot of them that actually try to display dates in 21st century, but get it wrong... < 1214254495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214254537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't hard! < 1214254565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf ("%d", 1900 + unix_style_date); < 1214254566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214254590 0 :mckiko!n=douglas@201.33.190.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214254598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right. It's not hard to fuck up. < 1214254602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from printing "-32" instead of "32 BC" that will handle it fine < 1214254621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is hard to fuck up < 1214254634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf ("19%d", unix_style_date); is just stupid < 1214254640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1214254657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm getting infected by GNU! EWW < 1214254658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1214254662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("19%d", unix_style_date); is just stupid < 1214254662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, it'll print "-31" instead of "32 BC" < 1214254684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no space between the printf and the ( < 1214254686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1214254691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending upon how your signing goes. < 1214254694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for if (foo) < 1214254704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I generally adapt the parens on functions and ifs to the surrounding code < 1214254706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One's complement? Two's complement? ;) < 1214254706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or while (foo) < 1214254714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but leave no space on either if I'm writing the code from scratch < 1214254715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1214254723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why -31? < 1214254731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because there was no year 0 < 1214254732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDGI < 1214254741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um I see < 1214254743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1214254746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1AD - 1 = 1Bc < 1214254750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/c/C/ < 1214254755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1-1 = 0 < 1214254760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1214254764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok insane < 1214254772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1214254781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NORMALLY computers doesn't have to handle such numbers < 1214254788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as dates < 1214254802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally only as text < 1214254805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers don't like our date system, really < 1214254808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes no sense < 1214254821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not to a computer < 1214254827 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me either < 1214254844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is related to the moon, the year and the day < 1214254871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it kind of makes sense < 1214254925 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the most bizarre stuff for '2008': 198, 198, 19E6, 194294967256, 1965496, 19216, '19,0', 19-40, 2108, 3908, 4008, 208, 216, 2116, 2216, 20E6, 4294967256, 1860, 1960, 204294967256, -40, 20-40. < 1214254939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19E6? < 1214254959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would be amused at 2.008e3
< 1214254971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1214254980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208 < 1214254981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait? < 1214254985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that almost made sense < 1214255017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, link to these? < 1214255036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe I put it online somewhere after cleaning it up a bit... < 1214255055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, was there any 19108? < 1214255078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I think should be the most likely mistake to make < 1214255089 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course. < 1214255108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I like to see the code that cause these errors < 1214255299 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 19E6 code was follows: Suppose that year routine returns 1999 as 99 but 2000 as 2000 (yes, such things exist). Store the return into uchar and print '19['0'+year/10][year%10]'. < 1214255327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214255359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 4294967296 is (unsigned)-40 < 1214255359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1214255364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could explain that to some extent < 1214255377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -40 makes no sense still < 1214255377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4294967296/4294967256/ < 1214255391 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also was 20E6 (which was just code that chooses century part right). < 1214255404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm enough of an INTERCAL programmer to be able to do that in my head < 1214255405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008 = -40 (mod 256). < 1214255434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: oh, yes, that would explain it < 1214255436 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry too lazy to get that triple-line sign, as congruences should have). < 1214255457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always write it as === < 1214255566 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡ < 1214255579 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡≡ < 1214255603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1214255609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the tripple one really < 1214255613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never understood the point of it < 1214255624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: congruence vs. equality < 1214255640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the triple-bar bascially implies equivalence under a certain relation < 1214255641 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard notation for congruences has that ≡ symbol... < 1214255646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the two things can be different < 1214255659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. -40 is not 2008 but they both end with the same 8 bits < 1214255670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214255682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, have same remainder when divided by 266... < 1214255717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 266, not 256? < 1214255750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought triple was for identities? < 1214255752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, should be 256. < 1214255767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea for initial fffungi come from points? < 1214255771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it often is in programming languages, but not in maths < 1214255776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about my idea about "run initial line"? < 1214255792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, a simple heuristic would be to look for M with three arrowhead commands pointing into it < 1214255795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a bit fragile < 1214255800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1214255827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look for ascii art of a T-Rex? ;) < 1214255829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do I remember the book I learned Algebra from, Algebra the Easy Way, saying something about identities like 4x ≡ x + x + x + x using the triple bar thing? < 1214255846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there, the triple-bar is meaning always equals < 1214255849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just equals < 1214255869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes equals? < 1214255873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is hot outside? < 1214255882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd have to invent your own operator for that < 1214255890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1214255892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. temperature ?=? 30oC < 1214255895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does intercal have one? < 1214255906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, seeing as I'm programming custom operators < 1214255909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can have one if you want < 1214255917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it have sensor interface? < 1214255925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has ffi to C < 1214255928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can have a sensor interface < 1214255944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said boehm-gc? note that I sometimes use normal malloc still < 1214255949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the PERL fingerprint < 1214255957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 'sometimes equals' in x^4-128x^3-1920x^2-63488x-1048544=0... < 1214255959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm deciding boehm-gc is not recommended < 1214255963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cause odd errors < 1214255967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the legal names for custom INTERCAL operators are punctuation marks that aren't used for anything else, lowercase letters, and any overstrike of exactly two characters which wasn't used otherwise < 1214255992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ffi? < 1214255997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, STFW < 1214255999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google is unhelpful < 1214256023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, try FFI wikipedia < 1214256024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1214256025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second hit < 1214256026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214256032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: foreign function interface < 1214256041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Foreign function interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1214256041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Jump to: navigation, search. A foreign function interface (or FFI) is a mechanism by which a program written in one ... < 1214256041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_function_interface - 27k - Cached - Similar pages - Filter - History < 1214256041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More results from en.wikipedia.org » < 1214256060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the reason I'm talking about memory allocation is to do with FORGET commands < 1214256068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which were the hardest to implement in C < 1214256076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does FORGET do? < 1214256086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows you to return from a function other than the one you're in < 1214256101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. function a calls function b, function b forgets, then it returns from function a < 1214256103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1214256114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's existed since INTERCAL-72 < 1214256128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically "mess with call stack"? < 1214256131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when FORGET, or the version of RESUME that's sugar for it, was the only way to do a conditional jump < 1214256135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, "mess with call stack < 1214256138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/"/ < 1214256162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if you do that and cause strange bugs in cfunge users should report the errors to you not me < 1214256171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the issue here is that if function a does mallocing, then it won't get to free its data < 1214256175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the second half never runs < 1214256183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw now probably you see why I was using setjmp_ < 1214256187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh yes that does happen < 1214256188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/_/)/ < 1214256200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm phasing out boehm < 1214256205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various reasons < 1214256213 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@cfunge users < 1214256217 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE VIBRANT CFUNGE COMMUNITY < 1214256223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1214256226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user of intercal < 1214256231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users* < 1214256235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will use fffunti < 1214256237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214256240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffungi* < 1214256252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever ais523 calls it) < 1214256271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there is some vibrant intercal community? < 1214256275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1214256280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not exactly vibrant, but chugging along < 1214256287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally get patches after each new release < 1214256294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often for older features that people are used to, though < 1214256295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I ask that all bugs in fffungi should first go to you < 1214256301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that makes sense < 1214256311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to verfiy they actually *are* related to my code before I get it < 1214256324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I doubt they'll be related to your code < 1214256325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all you seem to plan to do some pretty strange thing < 1214256336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't say that my code is bug free < 1214256342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it isn't < 1214256353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but it's likely to be bugfree compared to C-INTERCAL < 1214256357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1214256401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and anything messing with call stack or such that in my book goes under "compiler internals, don't touch" well... I don't "support" that < 1214256423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp is included in that book as a "don't do!" < 1214256429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I realize you need it < 1214256434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't expect me to like that part < 1214256440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1214256446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C wasn't really designed for FORGET < 1214256454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed it wasn't < 1214256454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually surprised at how well it handles COME FROM < 1214256462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does handle it well? odd < 1214256476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should learn INTERCAL at some point
< 1214256477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at the cost of clobbering all the auto variables in the function because it basically has to exit and reinvoke it < 1214256580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, urgh < 1214256602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it makes sense when you're COMING FROM one function into another < 1214256608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what possible valuse could the auto variables have? < 1214256609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my code do use variable sized arrays < 1214256623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that could cause issues < 1214256626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thin < 1214256628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not though < 1214256633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and structs with variable size < 1214256635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they work if I put wrapper functions around them < 1214256641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable size structs will be fine < 1214256641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in an array at the end of the struct < 1214256647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you never put them on the stack, right < 1214256653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think I do < 1214256658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do put *some* structs on stack < 1214256663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like returning a struct < 1214256667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but variable-length struct on stack makes no sense < 1214256668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is fixed size iirc < 1214256671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wouldn't work in C < 1214256690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however on amd64 I think that struct *may* be returned in a register < 1214256715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it fits in a register that's no problem < 1214256732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but on x86 it is definitely on the stack < 1214256734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vector < 1214256752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with is just two 32- or 64-bit values < 1214256764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack vs. register doesn't really matter < 1214256771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're FORGETTING you're clobbering everything anyway < 1214256773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of the point < 1214256789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, at least the IP is known after all INTERCAL mess-about-with-things instructions... < 1214256801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well could have memory leaks I guess < 1214256832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C-INTERCAL leaks like a sieve anyway, I've tried to patch some of the holes but it's like trying to patch a sieve one hole at a time < 1214256849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmodified cfunge is valgrind clean (well except it doesn't free the copies of the argc/argv, but those are allocated at the start and then "still reachable") < 1214256886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if compiled as RELEASE cfunge will have some non-dangerous small "still reachable" < 1214256905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it doesn't free on exit then < 1214256912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214256917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in debug build it will free almost everything at exit < 1214256923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the argv < 1214256960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are however *no* valgrind errors :) < 1214256969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that I know of < 1214256978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done fuzz testing to ensure that < 1214256988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there may be in the "unsafe instructions" < 1214256997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are harder to fuzz test safely < 1214257003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used sandbox mode when fuzz testing < 1214257017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they won't leak during normal operation < 1214257711 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1214257801 0 :jix!n=jix@p5489D13F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214257821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I wish you good luck < 1214257828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214257842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also befunge doesn't have real functions < 1214257846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the external calls and multithreading area < 1214257847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how could you FORGET? < 1214257850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither does INTERCAL < 1214257862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses NEXTing, which is like a cross between a function call and a GOTO < 1214257867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's GOSUB from BASIC < 1214257872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214257897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and cfunge gives more or less sane errors/warnings < 1214257904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike intercal < 1214257916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL's warnings and errors are sane, just the messages are funky < 1214257925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm complying with host language errors for the ffi < 1214257927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cfunge's messages are sane < 1214257928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you get C errors in C code < 1214257929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... cfunge doesn't give errors < 1214257933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just optional warnings < 1214257938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it reflects on error < 1214257940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what Funge does < 1214257944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214257960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reckons that that's bound to end up in an infinite loop at some point for some program, but whatever
< 1214257960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is the "hopeless out of memory error case" < 1214257976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE TOO MUCH ROPE TO HANG YOURSELF < 1214257988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for cfunge it only happens in stack code < 1214258008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is a warning < 1214258012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in INTERCAL it could happen in threading, memory allocation, or I/O < 1214258013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see OOMstackStack < 1214258018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in stack.c < 1214258054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could also happen elsewhere < 1214258056 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1214258066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I don't think it may always handle it gracefully < 1214258077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think OOM's all that graceful in C-INTERCAL < 1214258080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't before I got to it < 1214258084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may call abort() in one case < 1214258089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think programs handle OOM pretty well now, but the compiler probably doesn't < 1214258104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214258111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OOM isn't very likely these days < 1214258117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on desktops/laptops < 1214258123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, especially on Linux, you get the oom-killer instead < 1214258127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure for PIC intercal but... < 1214258139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC-Intercal uses entirely static memory < 1214258140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I only got that once, but I have 1.5 GB ram < 1214258144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got as much swap < 1214258144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some really crazy allocation requests may fail... < 1214258159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will be warned before it actually happens < 1214258163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when I tried putting a ulimit on the compile process, it caused problems on Itanium, apparently < 1214258166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by heavy swap trashing < 1214258173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the compiler used massive amounts of memory < 1214258173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1214258178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I see < 1214258178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ulimit itself was to avoid swapping < 1214258196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well Itanium is unusual in that aspect < 1214258200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW < 1214258201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in the end I adopted the fix of splitting idiotism.c into a huge number of smaller files < 1214258208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know why Itanium might use lots of memory < 1214258228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler needs to do scheduling < 1214258242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that there are 14 output files from idiotism.oil at the moment < 1214258247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the OIL compiler to autosplit them < 1214258268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this was done after last release? < 1214258269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however currently I compile them using wildcards in the call to gcc < 1214258271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1214258277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214258287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, will you use 32-bit or 64-bit cfunge? < 1214258288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1214258292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably 32-bit < 1214258296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1214258298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because INTERCAL's 32-bit < 1214258305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the language itself < 1214258307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the compiler < 1214258308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok makes sense < 1214258324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables are limited to 32 bits < 1214258330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constants are limited to 16 bits just to be annoying < 1214258355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see global.h and CMakeLists.txt < 1214258397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well *input program* to cfunge is 8 bit (file of char*), but at runtimes the cell are larger < 1214258409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most files are stored 8-bit < 1214258416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1214258425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you input UTF-16 or UTF-32, you might be able to load more directly < 1214258435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also note that cfunge won't compile under MSVC, I tried < 1214258442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did compile under mingw in the end < 1214258449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what went wrong under MSVC? < 1214258450 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... CLC-INTERCAL description says it supports quantum computation? Quantum INTERCAL or what? < 1214258452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a lot of heavy work and stubbing out stuff < 1214258459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MSVC doesn't support C99 basically < 1214258459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: apparently it's a threading model < 1214258462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really quantum < 1214258474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is just run two versions of the program in parallel < 1214258482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one datum being different between them < 1214258485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit of a cheat really < 1214258544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge is heavy with C99 code < 1214258554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can live with C99 < 1214258557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially VLAs < 1214258561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is non-trivial to convert to C89 < 1214258563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody's impemented it, pretty much < 1214258576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: some things are trivial, like restrict < 1214258591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well stuff like: & (fungeVector) { .x = 5, .y = 2 }; < 1214258594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the struct hack generally works by coincidence in C89 compilers with a slight syntax change < 1214258607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but things like VLAs have problems < 1214258618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for structure literals, I imagine there's some way to hack around that < 1214258619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see vector.h < 1214258626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably using helper functions < 1214258631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define VectorCreateRef(a, b) (& (fungeVector) { .x = (a), .y = (b) }) < 1214258639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also some other variants of it < 1214258643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the source < 1214258676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ you need to move up from for (int i = 0; ...) to int i; for (i = 0 ...) < 1214258685 0 :mckiko!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1214258742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I did test it on win32 before, some fingerprints have to be ifdefed out, oh and one of the header files clash with what is already used by the win32 api in name < 1214258745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other such things < 1214258757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was a few versions ago < 1214258760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it may no longer work < 1214258764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VectorCreateRef could be functionised relatively easily, I think, if you had garbage collection < 1214258771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an API name clash strikes me as unusual < 1214258779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it was io.h < 1214258782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that happens becaues they put everything in windows.h < 1214258782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that caused problem < 1214258792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than splitting it into separate headers for namespacing purposes < 1214258795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't find another header named io.h < 1214258803 0 :caio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1214258806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was a header file name clash < 1214258812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what <> vs. "" is for, surely? < 1214258819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be #include < 1214258821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "io.h" < 1214258823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get both of them < 1214258823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but even so < 1214258835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't care about the other io.h < 1214258848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow my io.h ended up in the include path before < 1214258854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this caused problems < 1214258865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some header I used wanted to include the system io.h < 1214258875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably a build system issue < 1214258893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I put my headers in the -I include path in C-INTERCAL < 1214258894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you will use my build system anyway < 1214258902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they aren't in the standard library < 1214258921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway a real issue: I will drop boehm-gc in future < 1214258926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my perfect way of using C-INTERCAL + cfunge would be just a wrapper that links to cfunge < 1214258932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where do you allocate memory? < 1214258942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when will you free it? < 1214258943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, malloc()/calloc() in future < 1214258946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free() < 1214258949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when? < 1214258952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on code flow < 1214258955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what part of your program < 1214258961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you allocate memory every command? < 1214258961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ususally free "when I'm done with it" < 1214258964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see support.h < 1214258965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you only allocate on the stack? < 1214258973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for most stuff I don't need to allocate < 1214258983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stack is allocated in chunks < 1214258988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is malloc+realloc < 1214258996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm wondering what needs allocation < 1214258996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack.c < 1214258997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungespace and stack are both fine < 1214258999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything else? < 1214259018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well some stuff malloc for popping strings from funge stack and such < 1214259032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it free before the command's finished? < 1214259038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that's fine < 1214259049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it doesn't need it later then yess < 1214259050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1214259054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -RE 'malloc|free|calloc|realloc' src < 1214259055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1214259065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may try that < 1214259068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some fingerprints alloc and put in a static array < 1214259069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really used to cfunge yet < 1214259074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: static is always fine < 1214259092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't interact with stupid stack tricks at all < 1214259104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the main() function allocs some stuff into a global (well strdup in fact) that it never frees < 1214259133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, not an issue, I don't think < 1214259148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because cfunge will be loaded exactly once in a run of the program < 1214259158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't really answer your questions about "does it do anything that will fuck up with stack tricks" because I'm an innocent and clean C programmer that got no idea what those tricks are! < 1214259172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1214259174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway those strdup and such are for copying argv as needed < 1214259181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't cause issues < 1214259185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for later use in y instruction < 1214259197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main.c and interpreter.h < 1214259198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I wrote a chapter in the documentation about the effect the stupid stack tricks had on programs < 1214259201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to find a link < 1214259205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thanks < 1214259258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the link's gone dead, I'll mirror it on eso-std.org < 1214259285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214259363 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-152-134-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1214259384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1214259410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso-std.org/~ais523/c-intercal-docs/n0kl5548.htm#External-Calls-and-auto < 1214259429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got that up, I'll look for a more permanent place to put it later < 1214259464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also patches upstream should be minimal, follow existing indention/coding style and *be clean C* < 1214259474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, makes sense < 1214259478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I hope my code is < 1214259480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1214259483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it would require no upstream patching at all < 1214259493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you find bugs I would like patches < 1214259499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better than I like bug reports < 1214259505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL uses some gld tricks to delete main()s in the programs it links against < 1214259508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can use its own < 1214259509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also sure you won't do concurrent befunge? < 1214259522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: concurrency + ffi is confusing in all situations < 1214259528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and well cfunge's main is just option parsing really < 1214259534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine one thread Befunge and one thread INTERCAL proceeding simultaneously < 1214259562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well they won't really, will they? < 1214259570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pthread < 1214259575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either < 1214259578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but it would be the only thing that made sense based on the semantics < 1214259581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's impossible to implement < 1214259585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however your C ffi could use pthread couldn't it? < 1214259588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I'm not mixing ffi and concurrency < 1214259594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I have been thinking along those lines < 1214259615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... nothing would stop anyone from using pthread int it < 1214259616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it* < 1214259627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I hate to think what breakage that would cause, though < 1214259636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1214259636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting, but it's definitely try-at-your-own-risk < 1214259649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't know enough intercal to try it < 1214259658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor have I ever used pthread < 1214259668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily write a simple INTERCAL program and a C shell that just runs arbitrary C < 1214259687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well would be useful for testing with I guess < 1214259711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have one already as a test, let me check < 1214259719 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. < 1214259726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alloca storage? < 1214259729 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems all pi-based languages are for Linux. < 1214259731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that defined by C standard? < 1214259732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: deliberate typo, or are you trying to say hello? < 1214259738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some gcc extension? < 1214259743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's a common nonstandard extension < 1214259744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are pi-based languages? < 1214259747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most C compilers implement it < 1214259752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't in the standard < 1214259768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never used it, what does it do actually? < 1214259784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: allocates memory that's deallocated when the function exits < 1214259794 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo : A few. < 1214259801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1214259811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could cause problems with intercal? < 1214259821 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occam-pi, Jo-Caml, Pict, BPML < 1214259828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I worked out the effect that alloca would have on the code < 1214259838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the reasons it's used is that it plays nicely with longjmp < 1214259913 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most of them are pretty experimental. < 1214259922 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's hard finding compilers and manuals < 1214260004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More worrying is probably the fact that the C standard provides a portable method for deleting the stack like that, and in fact the external calls runtime library is written in standard freestanding-legal C89 (with the exception of +printflow debug output which requires a hosted implementation), meaning that in theory it would be possible to split it out to create an implementation of a C-plus-COME-F < 1214260004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROM-and-NEXT language, and doing so would not be particularly difficult.)" < 1214260006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1214260018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It seems all pi-based languages are for Linux. < 1214260021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that bad? < 1214260022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: longjmp does almost exactly the same as forget < 1214260028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run it on your linux/*bsd system? < 1214260033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Slereah uses Windows < 1214260039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is a bug IMO ;P < 1214260075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and "longjmp" is definitely in my "don't ever touch that crazy stuff" entry < 1214260077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the chance of having the silly stack tricks being portable freestanding C was too much to pass up < 1214260084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hands Slereah2 a flyswatter. To use on AnMaster.
< 1214260086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even if you are willing to make more changes to fix it, there is no easy way to do so. " < 1214260089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/libc/Advantages-of-Alloca.html < 1214260091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh? < 1214260099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-oerjan- VERSION irssi v0.8.10 - running on Linux i686 < 1214260100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I see a way to do it without alloca() < 1214260121 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just because you don't personally use windows doesn't mean you like people going 'lol windows sucks so i wont fix it' < 1214260128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's a bit ugly < 1214260153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am actually ssh'ing from Windows to Linux... < 1214260155 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I has a Linux < 1214260171 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the dual booting went away when I reinstalled windows < 1214260176 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i salute you < 1214260176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, generally I try to get my programs working on Windows if possible, but not if it involves working around obstacles Microsoft put in my way < 1214260182 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could reinstall the dual booting < 1214260184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is usually < 1214260189 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my hard drive wasn't broken < 1214260206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've been known to connect from Windows ssh'd into SunOS < 1214260211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply to be in a UNIXy environment < 1214260212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well see instructions/sysinfo.c < 1214260225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 45 < 1214260240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and around there < 1214260271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, environ < 1214260281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Windows has something vaguely corresponding to it < 1214260284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably a pain to get at < 1214260291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I couldn't be bothered to mess with the functions it uses instead < 1214260313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Windows API is awful < 1214260320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are a few more, in some of the math fingerprints for example < 1214260343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows version of fork has infinity times as many parameters and is less powerful < 1214260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// Yeah, some systems are *really* crap. < 1214260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// This includes Mingw on windows when I tried. < 1214260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifndef M_PI < 1214260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 < 1214260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1214260355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from FIXP < 1214260361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR it had 11 params last I tried < 1214260369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is ISTR? < 1214260387 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214260388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Seem To Remember < 1214260394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fork got *NO* parameters < 1214260398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1214260399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If I Recall Correctly is more popular :-P < 1214260407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's more powerful than CreateProcessEx < 1214260415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has to jump through huge hoops to simulate fork < 1214260415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1214260432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is why fork() on cygwin is so slow < 1214260437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ the memory isn't shared < 1214260452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: ITYM "IIRC FTW". HTH. < 1214260474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM? HTH? < 1214260475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1214260476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1214260477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you IRC? I IRC too < 1214260477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those < 1214260490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC? < 1214260495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc not irc < 1214260496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214260497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Think You Mean? Hope That Helps? < 1214260504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Internet Relay Chat < 1214260505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214260507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1214260520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, IIRC != IRC < 1214260531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it was an acronym pun < 1214260532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrccccccccccccc < 1214260538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: somehow my mind refused to verb that noun :D < 1214260560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1214260561 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has sys_clone syscall... 3 or 6 arguments. sys_fork() is special case of sys_clone() (IIRC, sys_clone(SIGCHLD, NULL, NULL)). < 1214260562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to irc < 1214260582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: sheesh, you really are another fizzie < 1214260585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need more of you two :P < 1214260586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is syscall < 1214260593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I don't care about syscall < 1214260598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use the POSIX interface < 1214260600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is clean < 1214260601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1214260608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about the internals indeed < 1214260612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't have 11 args < 1214260622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more args are good, right? < 1214260629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1214260654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh < 1214260671 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it starts to exhibit 'inner platform effect'... < 1214260674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, aaaaaaaaaaaaaargs < 1214260681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's only 7 args at the moment < 1214260682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1214260696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what do you mean? < 1214260753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many arguments as it tries to do everything that one would want to set up a task it becomes hideously complicated... < 1214260762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that 7 args wasn't for the real function < 1214260766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a wrapper someone wrote < 1214260781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is CreateProcessEx? < 1214260792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CreateProcessEx isn't the real function nowadays < 1214260797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they renamed it back to CreateProcess < 1214260800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has 10 args < 1214260852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since Linux 2.5.49 the system call has five parameters." < 1214260866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when did they rename it back? < 1214260872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1214260878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't keep up with Windows API changes < 1214260887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not /that/ crazy < 1214260902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha ok < 1214260951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since Windows 2000, apparently < 1214260954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just looked it up < 1214260956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214260989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the POSIX API is clean and nice < 1214261314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1214261315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1214261328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1214261341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the windows api isn't < 1214261351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure the posix api got some issues too < 1214261362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tmpfile/tempfile/mktmp < 1214261371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compared to windows api? MUCH less issues < 1214261391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got to know the Windows 3.1 API at one point < 1214261402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it was borderline sane, most of it was just insane < 1214261412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically have to open handles to everything before you can use it < 1214261420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often to lock those handles as well < 1214261428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's open/lock/use/unlock/free < 1214261437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX does that with files on occasion, for efficiency < 1214261437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1214261442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Windows does it with everything, more or less < 1214261447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can lock files < 1214261453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't have to < 1214261461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see support.h of cfunge for locked/unlocked stdio stuff < 1214261470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, handles are like crosses between pointers and integers < 1214261476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know how locking works in POSIX < 1214261477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1214261479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I think I do < 1214261500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC a bit of the Windows API exploits the fact that pointers to ints are always even on a 16-bit system < 1214261512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by rightshifting them and using the high bit to mean something else < 1214261551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URGH < 1214261577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only in some contexts, though < 1214261584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1214261595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think that makes it worse < 1214261602 0 :AAAAAAue4njxuz!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AAAAAA < 1214261613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine doing that consistently being sane for a Lisp-alike < 1214261629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1214261639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is sane in *any* case < 1214261650 0 :AAAAAA!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AAA_AAA < 1214261659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Lisp often stores type and value in the same 32-bit value < 1214261665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you get 28-bit integers, for instance < 1214261675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAA_AAA: trying to find an unused nick? < 1214261679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214261703 0 :AAA_AAA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: am I? < 1214261711 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: i can remember when you used the nick ANantes and never talked, ever < 1214261712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking < 1214261717 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were Yet Another Idler < 1214261721 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1214261778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: opinions on whether shifting a pointer because it's known to be even and using the remaining bit for something else is sane? < 1214261787 0 :AAA_AAA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trying" isn't really the word, since it implies difficulty < 1214261787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane < 1214261796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends on context < 1214261813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long did it take me to go from idling here to chatting < 1214261820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why isn't the pointer opaque? < 1214261830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, huh? < 1214261839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "opaque"? < 1214261850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably Sgeo has a semitransparent mouse pointe < 1214261852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there things that look at the pointer's bits? < 1214261866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or it's a C-style pointer to an incomplete type < 1214261885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"because it's known to be even and using the remaining bit for something else is sane?" < 1214261886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: to determine whether it's a pointer or an int multiplexed into the same 32-bit space < 1214261888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I can see how the extra bit can be useful < 1214261894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1214261897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still find it a bit dirty < 1214261901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what? < 1214261902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with a union? < 1214261903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1214261910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was used to multiplex local 32-bit strings with handles to global strings IIRC < 1214261912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ghc 6.8 does something like that (except not shifting i think) for efficiency of pattern matching < 1214261915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a union? ty AnMaster < 1214261921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still confuzzled
< 1214261923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no not at all < 1214261937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a union is *not related* < 1214261943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just pondered how I would solve it < 1214261943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has the MAKEINTDWORD macro < 1214261947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a union wouldn't work < 1214261948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fits an integer into a pointer < 1214261953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was used to multiplex local 32-bit strings with handles to global strings IIRC <-- THAT isn't sane < 1214261955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I think that's what it's called < 1214261957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get it < 1214261991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I agree that that isn't sane < 1214261993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the handle bit < 1214262003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has an unhealthy love of handles < 1214262007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1214262017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well posix got file handles kind of < 1214262022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file descriptors < 1214262024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, they're just integers < 1214262026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all < 1214262028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're allocated from < 1214262028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1214262031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/0/ < 1214262039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1214262048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "from0"? < 1214262055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that make even less sense < 1214262055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a space at the end of my line < 1214262059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you can't see it < 1214262063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I selected to check < 1214262064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I hit return rather than 0 < 1214262069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your client stripped that space < 1214262075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it must have been stripped somewhere < 1214262076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine doesn't strip it < 1214262079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1214262080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space is here on my client < 1214262085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably it stripped on sending but not on echo < 1214262091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting < 1214262127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -say ##AnMaster test < 1214262127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1214262131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the spaces on the end < 1214262133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214262149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with just one space < 1214262156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so seems to be on your side < 1214262162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1214262164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for that channel it is locked up < 1214262178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not on echo, so I can't see it happening < 1214262184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so no point in trying to join, it is just a boring test channel) < 1214262191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed makes no sense < 1214262219 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1214262291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway have you found out how to properly do the initial come from points? < 1214262322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1214262324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still thinking < 1214262326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214262334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a channel full of esoprogrammers, I assumed that someone would have an idea < 1214262351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the bold M idea from an eso point of view but not a practical point of view < 1214262362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I've thought of a nicely INTERCALly way to do it < 1214262368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about at start of program require that some fixed position in the program contains a line with encoded way to do it? < 1214262370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many befunge programs contain literal backspaces? < 1214262371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tell me! < 1214262378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ARGH! < 1214262380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL uses overstrikes in its character set < 1214262385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written as char backspace char < 1214262389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1214262399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how the heck do you write that in emacs? < 1214262401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an overstrike would be a nicely INTERCALLy way to do a marker that isn't in the Befunge character set < 1214262405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C-q C-h < 1214262414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance a bookworm is V C-q C-h - < 1214262429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1214262480 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1214262497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214262513 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214262513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214262526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you miss anything? < 1214262529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so for instance a bookworm is V C-q C-h - < 1214262530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh my < 1214262532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection) < 1214262532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (n=ais523@147.188.254.115) has joined #esoteric < 1214262543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1214262545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection troubles < 1214262547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oh my I didn't see < 1214262550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I saw the line before < 1214262563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be glad to know that overstrikes are normally not used in modern code < 1214262563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sync finished ;P < 1214262567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they have synonyms < 1214262576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh good < 1214262593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V^H- is ? in C-INTERCAL < 1214262596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and c^H/ is $ < 1214262597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway for overstrike... how the heck would you store it in the program? < 1214262603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be 3 chars? < 1214262603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :character backspace character < 1214262606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a literal backspace < 1214262614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser could probably handle that < 1214262615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would columns line up? < 1214262625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as if the char backspace char was one character < 1214262630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1214262635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same in editors I hope? < 1214262647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of an editor that does backspaces like that < 1214262649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least emacs doesn't < 1214262657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most screens don't have the required fonts < 1214262660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is my problem < 1214262671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, not lining up is pretty fatal in Befunge < 1214262672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :columns should line up :/ < 1214262679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1214262686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it would be possible to write an emacs mode to handle it, though < 1214262693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a befunge-mode that handled overstrikes properly < 1214262693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's like "don't even try to use unicode" < 1214262715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, C-INTERCAL also has unicode synonyms for overstrikes which look like the original character < 1214262716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unicode would not line up < 1214262724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CLC-INTERCAL has latin-1 synonyms < 1214262727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214262736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 8 bits per char really hm < 1214262765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it would be breaking the Funge specs to allow overstrikes in the original program, but then it's impossible to do the FFI without breaking the Funge specs somehow < 1214262773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME FROM is about as feral as you can get < 1214262783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1214262789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how would the actual overstrike be stored in the cell < 1214262791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after loading < 1214262805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess it would be stored as one of the chars, with the other as metadata < 1214262814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1214262817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe as a 0 with metadata < 1214262824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the metadata would be stored separately from the grid < 1214262829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta data would have to be out of band indeed < 1214262830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and manipulated with special fingerprint instructions < 1214262836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the metadata would be right out of band < 1214262840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only used by the fingerprint < 1214262847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cfunge just sees a normal Funge program < 1214262851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this seems like the most sane idea so far < 1214262863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but. why overstrike? why not some other non-printable char? < 1214262870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will not cause line-up issues < 1214262879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that makes sense too < 1214262893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there got to be some that does not cause line up issues < 1214262894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if we have a high-bit-set nonprintable and a backspace-based synonym, that's what INTERCAL interps normally do < 1214262903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah ok < 1214262918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about that char that cause a dot? < 1214262923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what one that is < 1214262925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I'm working on implementing arithmetic in INTERCAL, and I was planning to use -^H: for division < 1214262935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or some of those line chars < 1214262940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :· < 1214262941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean used my ncurses and such < 1214262943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 0xB1 < 1214262948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in latin-1 and Unicode < 1214262961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that one will not cause line up issue, and work in utf8? < 1214262968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as latin-1? < 1214262979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all latin1 characters are 2 bytes in utf8 < 1214262984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1214262987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but INTERCAL's generally transmitted in latin-1 < 1214262992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for CLC-INTERCAL compatibility < 1214262996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1214263023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it isn't used for anything yet, which is good < 1214263049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's in EBCDIC? If it were it would be perfect < 1214263053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably too much to hope for < 1214263065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge will never ever parse EBCDIC! < 1214263074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably simply persuade Claudio to add it to his nonstandard EBCDIC parser < 1214263080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't worry, the EBCDIC stuff's separate < 1214263083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a conversion program < 1214263092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that C-INTERCAL could handle EBCDIC and Baudot programs < 1214263095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like CLC-INTERCAL can < 1214263099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214263108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the C FFI can't do baudot < 1214263109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both handle ASCII too < 1214263110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1214263113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only for sources < 1214263117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1214263125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to say that well, ignore it < 1214263131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it compiles Baudot into ascii < 1214263133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gcc will certainly break on EBCDIC AND Baudot < 1214263141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why you compile it into ascii first < 1214263150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only sane way to do it AFAICT < 1214263154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1214263160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but INTERCAL's so old that it originally targetted EBCDIC < 1214263171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we keep the compatibility in, just in case... < 1214263179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I don't think cfunge in Baudot is an issue < 1214263186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not something that you have to worry about day-to-day, though < 1214263188 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1214263193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because none of the compiler ever sees anything but ASCII < 1214263203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or utf8 < 1214263207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CLC-INTERCAL does text I/O in Baudot, but that's also irrelevant here because it's abstracted away < 1214263216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, or utf8 or latin1, both of which are supported < 1214263240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there's one char which has a different meaning depending on which character set it's in, but that's fine anyway < 1214263240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214263250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH < 1214263256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trying to give me a headache ;P < 1214263335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Morse code could be added
< 1214263346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably not that hard, I'd just need to modify convickt < 1214263352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the Morse for a rabbit char? < 1214263356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^H. < 1214263372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, bad example < 1214263372 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morse has no rabbit. < 1214263377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try bookworm instead, V^H- < 1214263387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: I'm not very surprised, most character sets don't < 1214263394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's expressible in punched cards, though < 1214263413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah < 1214263418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no punched card reader actually correctly reads it apart from CLC-INTERCAL's virtual punched card reader < 1214263428 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Unicode have a rabbit? < 1214263438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: normally we wouldn't have bothered, but the INTERCAL-72 docs mentioned it < 1214263448 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica certainly has a fox! < 1214263452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: probably not, it's a pretty obscure character < 1214263471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mathematica certainly has a fox! <-- what? < 1214263480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't rabbit just a "? < 1214263494 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mathematica has a fox-lookinf character < 1214263498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's a " overpunched on a . < 1214263499 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty angular one. < 1214263499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214263503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ARGH < 1214263506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it has signs for the chinese zodiac - there's a hare there isn't there? < 1214263510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2, screenshot? < 1214263517 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one somewhere. < 1214263521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's a cross between " and . just like ! is a cross between ' and . < 1214263525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, in the INTERCAL meaning < 1214263529 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's online < 1214263532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' and " are for quoting < 1214263545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rabbit actually < 1214263549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so common expressions like '.1 $ .2' can be abbreviated to !1 $ .2' < 1214263566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really work in this font, though, but that's a legal INTERCAL abbrevation < 1214263578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually used it when golfing my sig down to 120 chars for Slashdot < 1214263587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also occasionally in code, for extra fun < 1214263605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1214263611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess it's just an ordinary chinese character < 1214263636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rabbit character" Unicode gives no useful ghits < 1214263647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghits? < 1214263651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google hits? < 1214263651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google hits < 1214263653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1214263658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%94 < 1214263667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally used on Wikipedia as a slightly objective measurement of notability, despite warnings about this < 1214263685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that looks nothing like ". though < 1214263740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right we got a wikipedia admin here :/ < 1214263766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a reasonably inactive Wikipedia admin at the moment < 1214263771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1214263776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1214263828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no specific sign for the constellation of Lepus (hare) < 1214263837 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found where my Mathematica fonts are. < 1214263841 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 28 of them :o < 1214263886 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a software to see what's in a font? < 1214263981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2, on linux? certainly! < 1214263985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows: no idea < 1214264071 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try google with "font viewer" < 1214264109 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214264115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so will that dot char work? anyway normal line art chars should also work < 1214264123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as used by dialog < 1214264137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1214264152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :┌ < 1214264154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1214264155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1214264156 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Advanced Font Viewer est un programme, disposant d’une interface très conviviale, qui permettra de visualiser en simultanée toutes les polices installées sur votre système." < 1214264161 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google has many powers, people < 1214264167 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1214264168 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never underestimate it. < 1214264186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2, not in finding English results < 1214264193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read that you pasted < 1214264196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spanish? < 1214264202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :French? < 1214264215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like french to me < 1214264223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it should work < 1214264244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well except how do you type it in emacs? < 1214264251 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :French < 1214264278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xB1 = 10 110 001 = C-q 2 6 1 RET < 1214264285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found a character map in his windows, only it is called "tegnkart" because it's a norwegian windows
< 1214264286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1214264297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh yes that < 1214264308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teckenuppsättning in Swedish windows iirc < 1214264510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's %SystemRoot%\system32\charmap.exe < 1214264524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1214264532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope he get back < 1214264543 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1214264556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wb < 1214264559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you miss? < 1214264561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan> ah it's %SystemRoot%\system32\charmap.exe < 1214264577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Teckenuppsättning in Swedish windows iirc < 1214264577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Teckenuppsättning in Swedish windows iirc "before" that < 1214264579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the last thing I saw < 1214264584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Teckenuppsättning in Swedish windows iirc < 1214264584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah it's %SystemRoot%\system32\charmap.exe < 1214264584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection) < 1214264590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hope he get back < 1214264591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (n=ais523@147.188.254.115) has joined #esoteric < 1214264601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are leaving soon I guess? < 1214264608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have to leave by midnight my time < 1214264612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. within about 15 mins < 1214264615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is that? < 1214264651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this lab closes then < 1214264656 0 :Slereah!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-88-29.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214264663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no internet at home? < 1214264679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well hope you will work on ffungi then < 1214264683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back in t3h irssi. . .
< 1214264686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffungi is just hard to type < 1214264689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sweet Ratpoison. < 1214264689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hardÄ* < 1214264691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hard* < 1214264701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? < 1214264706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's one thing to work on < 1214264708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffungi < 1214264711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other languages I could ffi to easily? < 1214264717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a window manager. < 1214264721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plof. < 1214264774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1214264787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what about brainfuck? < 1214264801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that would be pretty trivial < 1214264814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't know Plof < 1214264815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to add a few new instructions of course < 1214264823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you do COME FROM in BF, anyway? < 1214264840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, data transfer might be a problem < 1214264842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I got no idea < 1214264853 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1214264856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean to BrainFuck or BeFunge? < 1214264862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is ambigious here! < 1214264878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguous* < 1214264887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1214264892 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't BF always Brainfuck? < 1214264892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: brainfuck < 1214264895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1214264906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, not at all < 1214264907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think BF is used as an abbreviation for befunge except in file extensions < 1214264912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.b = brainfuck < 1214264916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.bf = befunge < 1214264918 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We should have an ESO subcomittee for it. < 1214264926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.b98 = befunge 98 < 1214265099 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1214265127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I hereby declare that Befungeabbreviated shall be the appropriate abbreviation for Befunge. < 1214265162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, haha < 1214265176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got to sleep too < 1214265176 0 :Slereah!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-88-29.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1214265177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest .bs for Befunge, Shortened < 1214265181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and happy hacking < 1214265193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, .bf is already used < 1214265209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and: good luck! < 1214265387 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1214265425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1214265472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1214265499 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric