00:00:31 i've nothing against cannibalism, but i don't feel like alcohol right now 00:00:38 sippin on gin and (boy) juice? 00:01:28 -!- oklofok has set topic: The coolest ever international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. 00:01:36 oklofok: i don't think that's what he meant by man juice 00:02:17 i don't think that was what i meant with cannibalism. 00:06:10 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 00:11:22 http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23897&start=40 00:11:24 akanotu is demented 00:11:26 he hates dogs 00:11:34 especially dogs in text adventure games 00:11:37 and especially dogs in IRP text adventure games 00:45:28 tusho: Hrm, with your autofocus, I can't select text >_> 00:46:15 GregorR: Hm. I could add a 'LET ME SELECT TEXT' button. 00:46:18 I'll do that tomorrow. :P 00:46:41 Or, more generally, a focus/defocus button. 00:47:01 GregorR: Yes. 00:47:16 And a small program could be written for the shell that uses your FFI to cause it to defocus :P 00:47:19 So you can just type "defocus" 00:47:20 :P 00:48:21 Yes! 00:48:23 Tomorrow. 00:48:24 :P 00:51:05 bye for today :) 00:51:52 -!- tusho has quit. 01:08:48 hm. IRP text adventure games. Now there's an idea... 01:09:15 That's called "telling a story" 01:09:37 "would someone please act as the interface for a game of epic adventure, puzzle solving and low cunning?" 01:11:13 Hello RodgerTheGreat, welcome to Lamentia! You are standing on top of a very tall pillar in the middle of the ocean. The pillar is about a meter in diameter. You feel dizzy. 01:11:57 Huge waves crash against the sides of the pillar, making it shake a little. 01:12:13 oh, sweet! 01:12:16 INV 01:13:07 You see a bunch of killer robots flying towards you. 01:13:11 Your hands are empty. You are wearing some rags. 01:13:12 Shooting lazers and shit. 01:13:26 you can play oklonia later 01:13:39 after finishing this one 01:13:53 LOOK AT SELF 01:15:16 (if he says "that's not easy unless your eyes are prehensile", I'll know he's an infocom adventure) 01:16:26 You are old and physically frail. Your long hair and beard are a complete mess. The rags you are wearing are old, soiled and nearly falling apart. 01:16:37 hm 01:16:48 An enormous wave crashes into the pillar, sending spray into your face. 01:16:53 EXAMINE PILLAR 01:18:08 The pillar you are standing on is made of nondescript gray rock and rises about 20 meters above the ocean surface. Its sides have been smoothed by the action of the waves. 01:18:46 LOOK AT HORIZON 01:19:53 To the west, you can barely make out the dark line of the shore and the rising black spires of a castle. To all other directions, you see only the restless ocean. 01:20:46 It suddenly starts raining hydrochloric acid. You feel your skin starting to dissolve. 01:20:51 (hm. I wonder if this is like the intro to planetfall where I just have to pass the time until something happens) 01:20:54 eep 01:21:32 JUMP INTO OCEAN THEN SWIM WEST 01:21:35 it seems you guessed right :) 01:21:36 Some of your dissolved skin turns into a blob of green goo, a blob of red goo and a blob of brown goo. 01:21:43 Suicide is not the answer. 01:22:35 TASTE GREEN GOO 01:23:05 This green goo tastes delicious! Your hands melt away. 01:23:36 eep again 01:23:57 USE BROWN GOO ON PILLAR 01:24:15 (using your feet) 01:24:20 I don't know how to use that. 01:25:04 MIX RED GOO WITH BROWN GOO 01:25:47 (using your feet) 01:26:36 You thoroughly mix the red goo with the brown goo. As you're doing it, suddenly the mixture explodes! Your feet are blown away and you fall onto the pillar. 01:26:43 (Your score just went up 10 points.) 01:26:54 hunh 01:27:09 LOOK AT SELF 01:27:53 You are old and physically frail. Your long hair and beard are a complete mess. The rags you are wearing are old, soiled and nearly falling apart. You have no hands. You have no feet. Your skin has dissolved. 01:29:02 TAKE ALL 01:29:53 The ocean: You can't take that. 01:29:59 The castle: You can't take that. 01:30:06 The pillar: You can't take that. 01:30:19 The big red button: You have no hands! 01:30:28 what the christ 01:30:40 push big red button with face 01:30:46 * RodgerTheGreat ahem 01:30:52 PUSH BIG RED BUTTON WITH FACE 01:31:44 Using your face, you push the big red button. The pillar starts slowly sinking vertically into the ocean. 01:31:51 (Your score just went up 25 points.) 01:31:55 awesome 01:32:14 now, how do I swim without feet or hands, I wonder 01:32:33 WAIT 01:33:08 You wait a little. As the pillar descends, you notice sharks impatiently circling it under the waves. 01:33:54 aw shit 01:34:11 LOOK 01:34:11 hasn't the rest of his body dissolved? 01:34:22 (how high am I from the water now?) 01:34:26 no, still two more turns before that happens 01:35:20 oh, about ten meters. 01:36:06 hm. still too high to jump 01:36:17 oklofok: any ideas? 01:36:29 hmmhmm 01:36:39 shout for help? 01:36:42 :| 01:36:57 SAY HELP 01:37:16 stop distracting oklo! >_< 01:37:22 oh, IDEA! 01:37:26 XYZZY 01:38:53 Hahaha, I should write an adventure game in which you die no matter what, but you "win" if you manage to stave off death longer :P 01:39:22 As you pronounce the magical word, you're enveloped in a cloud of orange smoke and your surroundings change...Segmentation fault 01:39:24 I'm getting the feeling that's how this one works 01:39:25 the problem with adventure games is they're preprogrammed 01:39:43 RodgerTheGreat: took you forever :P 01:39:45 lament: aw, damngit 01:39:53 was that actually what I was supposed to do? 01:40:09 I'm hopelessly unimaginative 01:40:15 (also have to go home soon) 01:40:30 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi. 01:40:43 good show, though 01:40:48 highly entertaining 01:40:59 * oklofok liked too 01:41:12 GregorR: you should try "oklonia" 01:41:37 :P 01:42:26 it's more fun if different people are the player every time 01:42:46 after "oklina" we can do "The Secret of Rodgeria" 01:42:56 if the "interpreter" is even remotely mean, that would end very quickly and painfully 01:43:06 different people trying to be the player, i mean 01:43:33 well, not the same game I mean 01:43:37 oh 01:43:51 different game, different player was what I meant 01:44:09 have you played Rematch? 01:44:14 no 01:44:58 try it, the cool thing about it is that it's 1 turn long 01:45:19 so it's one of the few adventure games that i actually managed to complete 01:45:30 haha 01:45:46 I've completed a handfull 01:46:11 http://www.wurb.com/if/game/1114 01:46:21 I finished WHIPLASH (I think that was the name), and managed to get the "good" ending 01:47:12 jesus, it's 238KB when compiled for TADS? 01:47:44 One game I set aside halfway through finishing was "Babel", and I should really go back and try to complete it 01:47:58 that game gave me nightmares- it's so vivid 01:49:10 i don't like playing games if the levels are crafted by humans 01:49:25 feels... pointless 01:49:31 i guess it should be the other way 01:49:47 yes 01:50:06 same as music - why listen to music unless it's written by a human? 01:50:19 actually, it's probably the fact i'm exploring something another person may also have explored 01:50:20 oklofok: in soviet infocom, adventure games play you? 01:50:28 so i'm not gonna find anything no one has ever foudn 01:50:29 found 01:51:11 that's an awfully negative way to look at it 01:51:34 perhaps, perhasp 01:51:36 *perhaps 01:52:05 I remember when I played my first few text-adventure games, and it was absolutely enthralling 01:52:26 oklofok: hmm... in guild wars there are a few things you can find out in the middle of nowhere, with no advantage to finding them - strange fortresses with tough monsters guarding nothing at all, the corpses of a beast and a carriage lying in the snow... 01:52:27 i've liked some too 01:52:32 I KNO RITE.. NETHACK FTW!1 01:52:42 At the time my main computer was a used 386 laptop hooked up to a CRT so I could have color 01:52:56 oklofok: I'm sure lots of people find them, but I like that the designers occasionally find time to add pointless detail that relatively few players are ever likely to see 01:53:18 I had dialup, and the only things I could play on my computer were things I could download via 56k modem and transfer to my computer on a floppy from the family computer 01:53:28 Dewi: i'd still prefer it if i knew it had been automatically generated 01:53:45 oklofok: yeah, that's just strange :) 01:53:47 from this, I discovered text adventure games and the game that defined nearly 2 years of my life on the computer- ZZT. 01:53:57 perhaps it has something to do with my wanting to explore outer space civilizations and shit 01:54:07 heh 01:54:08 oklofok: I'll bet you love Noctis 01:54:11 i plaed everquest on dialup 01:54:15 i played ZZT for like five minutes total 01:54:34 I still have a little archive of my favorite ZZT games 01:54:38 oklofok: doesn't it bother you that... it's essentially disposable? roll the dice again and its gone? 01:54:43 there were some incredible ones 01:55:01 Dewi: you can save them 01:55:02 RodgerTheGreat: we used to push that little engine as far as it could go 01:55:13 and they exist in that they can be generated with the same seed 01:55:18 Dewi: hell yeah 01:55:27 ever play the Chrono Wars series? 01:55:35 RodgerTheGreat: hmm. don't think so 01:55:42 how about "P0P"? 01:55:51 that might be more familiar 01:55:58 I think I mainly played ones by the guy who wrote ZZT 01:55:59 Dewi: i think the disposability is what i enjoy, the fact it's an infinite source of new worlds 01:55:59 the Evil Sorceror's Party? 01:56:04 that was frickin' epic 01:56:04 but we also wrote lots of our own little games 01:56:15 split across 4 game files to overcome engine limits 01:56:22 RodgerTheGreat: nice 01:56:44 though Dewi was Deewiant at first 01:56:54 but i now see he's the character from that monkey island game 01:57:03 *thought 01:57:13 oklofok: stupid information theory. The difference between information and entropy is... sometimes just a subjective opinion 01:57:33 what are you referring to, there? 01:57:54 I don't think I'll ever forget chrono wars- I had a terrible case of strep throat, and I spent a thursday, friday, and a weekend in my room with loads of water, tons of cough drops, and all 13 games. I played them back-to-back and it was an incredible experience 01:58:28 oklofok: well, the moment you compress or encrypt data it looks more or less like random noise 01:58:58 oklofok: have you tried Noctis? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctis 01:59:21 Dewi: sure, but i don't get the reference, still :P 01:59:34 oklofok: the structure is there, but very well hidden 01:59:34 RodgerTheGreat: i haven't, and it's 4 am, so i'm not gonna try right now 01:59:39 but perhaps at some point 01:59:52 just seems right up your alley 02:00:20 don't let the fact that it runs at 320x240 turn you off- it's gorgeous: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Noctis_Screenshot.png 02:00:40 quite ptty 02:00:40 oklofok: just Information Theory 02:00:41 *pretty 02:01:29 Noctis was created by the same guy that's working on Linoleum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleum_%28programming_language%29 02:01:29 oklofok: as used in the study of crypto, and data transmission, among other things 02:01:32 Dewi: it's the level creation algorithm that is the interesting part 02:02:02 oklofok: ooh 02:02:15 oklofok: I suddenly remember civilization, it would generate your world at the start 02:02:26 yeah, that was awesome 02:02:50 but i didn't like the game 02:02:55 oklofok: as kids we developed these odd rituals to try to generate "good" worlds 02:03:10 Dewi: how old are you? 02:03:12 oklofok: like a friend would insist that he tried hitting "F1" repeatedly and he got this awesome world 02:03:18 oklofok: 26 02:03:34 oklofok: early 90s computer games are magic to me 02:03:44 heh, you're probably the oldest on the channel 02:04:08 oklofok: I'm a stowaway 02:04:17 oklofok: don't tell anyone 02:04:17 heh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Linoleum_(programming_language) 02:04:47 Dewi: i won't 02:04:51 also oerjan is over 30 02:05:18 oerjan is my grandfather 02:05:49 oh, right, lament, how old are you? 02:06:12 i'm an ageaholic 02:06:14 23 02:06:21 darn, i guessed 24 02:06:53 oklofok: because my birthday is right at the end of the year, I've spent most of my life associating with people older than me, I am accustomed to being the youngest person in any group of people 02:06:59 oklofok: being the oldest is scary 02:07:10 :) 02:07:30 lament: wow, that's a lot of stuff 02:07:36 oklofok: but getting old sucks, everyone I know (including me) is so boring now, so I think I'm going to have to start being that creepy older person who hangs around 02:08:02 I turned 20 last month 02:08:10 Dewi: it's never too late! 02:08:20 oklofok: so... hi! Let me know if you need anything from the liquor store, kids! 02:08:29 :D 02:08:36 (are you guys american? did I localize that properly?) 02:08:42 i'm finnish 02:09:16 I'm american 02:09:24 -!- cherez1 has joined. 02:09:50 also, all the kids are asleep already 02:09:59 oklofok: hmm, localizing for you is particularly tough. Would you say you speak UK standard english? 02:10:18 (I'm sure USA thinks it has a standard english also...) 02:10:23 later 02:10:30 i'd say i try to speak american english, but am not that good at keeping it pure. 02:10:53 oklofok: would "liquor store" be the natural rendering for you? 02:11:35 yeah, i can't recall any other way to say it. 02:11:40 here in australia they are "bottle shops" for some reason 02:11:48 or "bottle-o" 02:12:00 in the UK they are "off-licenses" 02:12:22 ah, i think i've heard off-licence 02:13:27 i guess the correct localization is viinakauppa 02:13:33 :) 02:13:55 Dewi: you into esolangs? 02:13:58 what is the kauppa part? 02:14:01 shop 02:14:05 viina is liquor 02:14:16 from wine, vino 02:14:21 well 02:14:24 wine is viini 02:14:25 :) 02:14:30 * Dewi nods. 02:14:31 viina is the stronger stuff 02:14:39 oh, cool 02:14:42 spirits 02:14:45 ? 02:14:48 oh, right. 02:14:56 or still grape-based 02:14:57 ? 02:15:08 well not "oh, right", i just assumed "liquor" would suffifr 02:15:13 *suffice 02:15:21 no 02:15:25 the distilled stuph 02:15:31 oklofok: I am into esolangs both outside computers and in computers, but I'm not actually very good 02:15:40 outside computers? 02:15:46 does the mean conlangs? 02:15:51 oklofok: human languages 02:16:10 "esoteric human languages" would probably be conlangs 02:16:14 constructed languages 02:16:22 oklofok: the word 'liquor' doesn't exist here 02:16:47 oklofok: other than through american imperialism, obviously 02:17:26 oklofok: aah 02:17:36 oklofok: well, I don't know much about conlangs. I don't really like them 02:17:50 oklofok: part of the beauty of languages for me is how little control we have over their development 02:17:52 we actually have likööri in finnish, which obviously comes from liquor, since it's pronounced almost the same, but it means a different drink 02:17:53 conlangs arent necessarily esoteric, oklofok. :P 02:17:56 more specific 02:18:03 not that i actually know what it is, exactly 02:18:07 i don't drink that much 02:18:14 ithkuil is definitely esoteric tho 02:18:29 augur: no, but i assumed he meant that 02:18:44 oklofok: but you're in finland! :) 02:18:56 oklofok: like us Australians you are meant to drink a lot, I think :P 02:19:06 heh :P 02:19:09 that's true 02:19:13 i'm a minority 02:19:56 i'm a nerd, like chilling at home ircing and coding 02:20:26 oklofok: how old are you? 02:20:27 but as i'm in a band (well technically two), i need to drink occasionally 02:20:29 19 02:20:46 oklofok: still plenty of time to develop a drinking problem 02:20:51 oklofok: i thought that was the finnish way 02:20:51 heh :D 02:20:57 being a nerd and coding 02:21:09 i mean, you guys have nokia and linux 02:21:14 i guess we're evenly partitioned into drunks and knurds 02:21:23 gnurds* 02:21:49 i think the correct term for the drunk/nerd partitioning is knurd 02:21:55 as that's where it originated, afaik 02:22:07 well. 02:22:12 ok. 02:22:26 i just call those people Diggnation fans but whatever 02:22:28 i know the guy who composed the old beepy nokia tunes 02:22:30 oklofok: in australia engineers particularly have a reputation for drinking heavily 02:22:35 at least a great part of them 02:22:42 oklofok: as a software engineer, I get to be a nerd and also drink 02:22:57 Dewi: do you watch Diggnation? 02:23:02 augur: no 02:23:15 well, i like coding when i'm drunk, i might drink more if i was less poor 02:23:36 coding drunk is dangerous 02:23:59 this one guy told about his experience coding high 02:24:04 don't know what he was high one 02:24:06 *on 02:24:18 but the end result was a hello world with 50 lines of comments 02:24:27 or was it 500 02:24:28 im gonna be in eurolandia in two weeks, btw. 02:24:47 dude 50-500 comments? hahaha 02:25:01 well, atleast he documented well :) 02:25:03 well, i recall 50, but i'm not sure, and 500 would've been more funny 02:25:16 at least it was 50+ 02:25:24 /50+/ 02:25:38 all my helloworlds have atleast 20 lines of documentation 02:25:44 * Dewi has to get drunk to write perl sometimes 02:26:07 when I'm sober perl and PHP make me too angry :P 02:26:25 and when you're drink you beat them? 02:26:26 but also, perl written while drunk definitely won't work 02:26:32 "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO! ::SMACK::" 02:26:45 perl written sober probably won't work either. 02:26:47 augur: yeah 02:26:55 augur: well exactly 02:27:27 if you go into #haskell, they have a bot that will answer questions about haskell 02:27:31 humorously 02:27:35 theres special syntax for questions 02:27:45 and the answer to any question is "Yes! Haskell can do that!" 02:28:19 'question Can haskell code written while I'm drunk still run? 02:28:22 * Dewi did a haskell subject once 02:28:25 Yes! Haskell can do that! 02:28:29 only thats not the syntax :p 02:28:30 I went into the final exam thinking I knew haskell 02:28:36 but found out I didn't know it at all 02:28:42 haskell is cool, but fucking confusing 02:28:44 luckily it was an open-book test and I managed to learn a lot 02:28:46 the types atleast 02:31:29 they make a few senses occasionally 02:36:17 quick poll: what's your favorite amount of dimensions? 02:43:03 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:43:30 someone please suggest a male name that starts with T or TY 02:44:09 tim 02:44:22 now you answer mine 02:44:41 granted, it's silly, but quick polls are awesome. 02:44:45 ok 02:45:39 going to answer or agreed with my opinion on polls in general? 02:45:48 well, acknowledged my opinion 02:47:53 my favorite is 2d 02:48:45 then probably 4d, i like how you can almost visualize it, but it kinda stays mysterious still. 02:48:59 oh, shit I didn't realize what the question was. I like 2d. 02:49:16 ah 02:49:33 2d what I usually draw in and what I use to make games 02:50:03 same here, and i'm thinking if i ever get to first-person shooters or similar in my games, i'll do them in 4d. 02:50:33 i've made a 2d fps 02:50:35 :-) 02:51:10 nifty 02:51:20 I liked "Meteor" which is effectively that 02:51:41 it was a quick visual basic project with forced perspective 02:52:08 well not *that* quick, like 4 hours 02:53:22 do text based games count as 1d? http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/ICEBreaker/ 02:53:54 i'd say they don't really have a dimension, they are usually more general graphs 02:54:17 hm 02:55:35 there's no inherent maximum amount of paths you can take from a certain activity cell, so there's no dimension 02:56:05 that makes sense 02:56:30 i like to think of n-dimensional thingies as graphs where nodes are connected to adjacent nodes 02:57:11 so, if a node has the position vector [a1, a2... an], it's connected to all [b1, b2... bn] where H(A, B) == 1, where H is the hamming distance function 02:57:24 and why am i being so mathematicianish all of the sudden 02:59:22 (god it's hard not to mention graphica now) 03:23:28 http://www.graphica.com/see-it/ ? 03:24:54 mathematica is a kickass piece of software, I just wish the educational discount made it affordable. :/ 03:25:33 I'd pay somewhere in the $100-150 range for a copy, but they want $699 last I checked, which I just can't afford 03:25:54 For now, I suppose my TI-84 suits my purposes. :( 03:27:41 I think Graphica would be neater if they included the expression to generate each of the graphs next to it 03:42:07 RodgerTheGreat: graphica is my graph language 03:42:31 oklofok, go to sleep! 03:42:41 or code 03:42:46 or whatever it was you were supposed to do 03:42:47 :D 03:42:49 i coded! 03:42:54 so you're back?! 03:42:56 ok. 03:42:57 http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=185 <<< did this 03:43:02 well, yeah, but sleep time 03:43:23 i decided that elses arent necessary but beneficial for computation, so.. 03:44:01 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/graphica.txt <<< RodgerTheGreat: in case you haven't seen this, n-dimensional binary hypercube in graphica 03:44:06 i'm fairly proud of it 03:44:23 which is why i paste it every now and then in hope that someone tries to figure out how it works :P 03:45:29 craziness 03:46:25 -!- cherez1 has left (?). 03:57:32 -!- cherez has joined. 04:12:44 -!- ihope has joined. 04:23:04 what do you guys think of these? 04:23:07 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1213758400-t&s2.png 04:23:12 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1213757799-t&s.png 04:26:21 Cool. 04:26:44 thanks. Anything in particular you like or find interesting? 04:27:08 I suddenly wonder what would happen if I supplied text and ideas and such and you supplied images and such and such. 04:27:30 wondrous things, no doubt 04:27:38 Naturally. 04:27:58 I think I have the script for this project pretty much nailed down, though (for issue 1 at least) 04:28:04 Cool. 04:28:10 I'll run it by you when I finish typing it up 04:29:21 * ihope ponders 04:29:51 which of those is your favorite illustration? 04:30:50 Well, the "elementary, my dear static" and Dr. T with the chipmunk thing on his nose are nice. 04:31:22 Flowers for Algernon! Brave New World! Heck, Lord of the Flies... all with protagonists rejected by society. 04:31:52 the chipmunk thing was probably my favorite 04:32:26 Order of the Stick makes heavy use of dramatic irony. I'm pondering a character that's rejected by society for a reason obvious to everyone but him, then. 04:32:35 and this story will contain at least some of the usual "outsiders making a stand" pathos 04:33:06 Sounds fun. 04:36:17 I'm going for Dr. T as a tortured, bitter character on the brink of becoming a super villain, and Static-Cling Girl as a more optimistic character, somewhat ashamed of her abilities but generally good at making the best of a lousy situation 04:37:22 Ashamed of her abilities but good at making the best of a lousy situation. That's a good one. Dr. T sounds like a Charlie Brown character, except more bitter and evil, of course. 04:38:10 not a completely inaccurate comparison 04:38:39