00:01:34 -!- Slereah7 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:10:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:11:21 -!- Slereah7 has joined. 00:17:07 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:17:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 00:30:54 oklopol: ok. 00:31:01 but i dont know about the [] notation 00:31:07 maybe something else 00:31:14 What? 00:31:17 like.. `a or something? 00:31:21 @a? 00:31:27 for cool ports? 00:31:33 wha? 00:31:46 s/cool// 00:31:58 what? :P 00:32:23 for the special keywords in the reactions 00:32:53 well they were the port syntax 00:33:01 but 00:33:06 well lets not call them ports, thats a weird name :P 00:33:08 i guess you could just have them in a preset var 00:33:16 okay 00:33:38 what i think we should do is something like ` or @ 00:33:49 @ is good because its for the arguments 00:33:52 a for args 00:34:25 yes it's awesome! 00:34:30 let's *do* it 00:34:32 ofcourse, destructuring: @[x,y] -> ![y,x] 00:34:36 ! for output 00:35:12 so multiple return variables instead of just one 00:35:47 well sure 00:35:57 @ could just mean it's the upper level var 00:36:06 upper level? 00:36:28 well yeah, the thingie outside the function body 00:36:42 ahm, i dont know if ![y,x] would work, but for inputs it'd work as pattern matching 00:37:06 well duh 00:37:10 i mean 00:37:15 0 -> x 00:37:34 (@arg -> !x) -> func 00:37:41 4 -> func 00:37:44 x == 4 now 00:37:54 this would be the 100% reactional way to do functions 00:37:58 hold on a sec 00:38:03 but it doesn't let you add math support 00:38:27 but i guess you could do 00:38:40 sure, math support would be simple 00:38:55 (@ -> !) -> foo, where @ and ! are special vars with which you could do foo 5 == 5 00:39:12 because @ would be what foo is applied to, and ! the return 00:39:32 but, you could simultaneously do global changes with @ and ! accessing the upper level 00:39:36 eh well i think we'd need to go over this in a bit more detail 00:39:39 gimme a few for that 00:39:40 although you only need one char for that tbh 00:40:00 first of all we just need @, a var prefix meaning "upper context" 00:40:08 upper context -> upper context; 00:40:18 (inner context -> inner context) -> upper context; 00:42:07 that was just an explanation of inner / outer context 00:42:31 so, usually, inside a function body, all variables are local 00:42:40 @ takes them off the upper context 00:42:57 hold one :P 00:43:10 which one? 00:43:23 -!- tusho has quit ("Leaving"). 00:43:26 -!- tusho has joined. 00:43:35 on* 00:43:46 test 00:44:02 -!- Slereah7 has changed nick to Slereah. 00:46:24 ok so heres how i envision it, right 00:46:33 you define some function 00:46:34 say 00:47:51 -!- tusho has left (?). 00:47:53 -!- tusho has joined. 00:47:53 -!- tusho has left (?). 00:47:57 -!- tusho has joined. 00:48:02 eh no.. sorry, now that im thinking about it i cant think of a way to do it without defining args seperate from other parts 00:48:21 i mean, with that, it's fine 00:48:22 so like 00:49:07 foo = @(a,b,c): a+b+c -> ! 00:49:42 but you'd need to do it that way because you need to be able to map input values to the function to their respective parts 00:49:53 foo = ([a,b,c] = @; a+b+c -> @) in my way 00:50:03 now you can use "foo [5,4,3]" 00:50:07 and returns 12 00:50:22 well [a,b,c] = @ wouldnt work but 00:50:33 that's @ -> [a,b,c] 00:50:44 ey.. oh i see ok 00:50:47 sure yes 00:50:58 oh brilliant 00:50:59 except it's not pushed in the reaction list 00:51:02 ok then we can just do it like this 00:53:09 fac = ( @ -> n 00:53:09 n == 0: 1 -> ! 00:53:10 n*(fac n-1) -> ! ) 00:53:16 hows that for the factorial? 00:53:17 :) 00:53:33 i'd say that's awesome 00:53:52 except still, you can use the same char for both output and input 00:53:52 fac n -> blah being shorthand for (n -> fac) -> blah 00:53:53 :) 00:54:00 yeah 00:54:11 well 00:54:13 should we do that? same char? 00:54:16 well 00:54:28 if we do, then we can do @var = upper var 00:54:37 what is this 00:54:38 what does that mean?? 00:54:44 tusho: its language design! 00:54:52 augur: look-up from outside the function 00:54:53 i'll implement it 00:55:00 tusho: i already did this morning 00:55:07 oklopol: fuck you 00:55:09 except the changes being made now 00:55:10 :D 00:55:26 you can implement those before they're fully decided on! 00:56:26 i dont understand, what do you mean look-up from outside the function? 00:56:30 well 00:56:44 func = (x -> !) 00:56:48 5 -> x 00:56:57 func 7 == 5 00:56:59 errr 00:57:03 func = (@x -> !) 00:57:24 eh.. no. you mean the get to variables outside the body of the function?? 00:57:28 well yeah 00:57:31 err 00:57:34 what 00:57:36 no, its unnecessary. we can just use lexical scoping 00:57:41 well yeah, look-up from outside the function 00:57:58 it'll be global scoping. 00:58:10 because there's no way to declare a var 00:58:17 we dont need to declare 00:58:18 or even set one 00:58:30 variables are just lexical scope 00:58:59 okay, so on right side, inner, on left side, upper? 00:59:08 what do you mean? 00:59:11 asd 00:59:35 func = (x -> x); <<< left = outer, right = inner 00:59:51 outer = x in outer scope 00:59:57 hm.. no i see your point actually 00:59:57 inner = x in inner scope 01:00:19 good, good 01:00:19 let me think about this for a second 01:00:21 it's mostly a problem when setting a bar 01:00:23 *var 01:00:26 because scheme has lexical scope and doesnt have this issue. :P 01:00:31 you want to be able to set a var in both upper and inner 01:00:49 ok how about this 01:00:50 because upper is the pure, reactional way, which we're just making a syntactic convenience over with @ 01:00:56 augur: because it seperates definition and setting 01:00:58 that's what you should do 01:01:01 seperate definition and setting. 01:01:14 yeah, i did the =/-> separation with oklotalk 01:01:27 pretty much the same thing for this same scoping issue 01:01:31 if a variable is located in a higher environment, e.g. the environment the reaction was defined, then it refers to that variable 01:01:32 e.g. 01:01:50 tusho: that's not what we should do 01:02:30 augur: yeah, so i suggest @ for outer, because it's not used much, and it's semantically nice if it exists with the @ syntax thing for defining "functions" 01:02:41 x = 5 01:02:42 foo = (x -> @) 01:02:43 foo 8 == 5 01:02:48 but 01:03:10 tusho: variables can be used before they're made, so definition/setting is hard to separate 01:03:17 i mean before they're set 01:03:18 x = 5 01:03:18 foo = (y -> @) 01:03:19 foo 10 // error: y is undefined 01:03:22 oklopol: thats' ok. 01:03:37 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:03:53 x = 5 01:03:53 foo = ( y = 3 01:03:54 y -> @ ) 01:03:56 foo 10 == 3 01:03:57 augur: for look-up, that's okay, the issue is with setting 01:03:58 y == undefined 01:04:01 as i said 01:04:30 you want to set variables outside of scope that are not already defined? 01:04:37 i would say, not allowed. :) 01:04:41 no, not necessarily 01:04:58 but i don't want to set the outer scope variables that are already defined automatically in the inner scope 01:05:03 like 01:05:06 x = 0 01:05:11 ( 3-> x) 01:05:16 *(3 -> x) 01:05:24 shouldn't change x 01:05:41 i disagree, i'd say it should. (3 -> x) is defined in the environment where x is also defined 01:05:54 so the x inside (3 -> x) should refer to the x in that environment 01:06:29 so global variables 01:06:34 z 01:06:46 except *definitions* have scope 01:06:57 what do you mean definitions have scope? 01:07:00 that's not very pretty 01:07:02 well 01:07:13 if you declare a var in an inner scope, it doesn't exist in the outer one 01:07:26 but... 01:07:28 hard to explain 01:07:28 well yes 01:07:48 if a variable is set, it's global in all inner scopes 01:07:56 that's essentially global. 01:08:05 all the same drawbacks afaict 01:08:08 give me code examples 01:08:12 i dont see what you mean 01:08:26 well 01:08:29 once you do x 01:08:33 err 01:08:36 value -> x 01:08:45 x will always refer to that x in any inner scope 01:08:53 you mean like 01:09:07 5 -> x 01:09:07 foo = ( ... x ... ) 01:09:10 ? 01:09:29 why do you keep asking what an inner scope is? 01:09:36 yeah i mean that 01:09:44 because your use is kind of odd. :P 01:10:01 yes, that x is the original x 01:10:10 so inside foo, at this point, x == 5 01:10:11 i agree 01:10:18 "x will always refer to that x in any inner scope" is recursive in that you can have nested inner scopes 01:10:18 and always the same x 01:10:27 so you're polluting the namespace for all the inner dudes 01:10:42 its just lexical scope. 01:10:43 even though you rarely actually set upper scope vars 01:11:04 you usually just read them 01:11:18 sure, but theres no way really to get around that 01:11:19 i mean 01:11:20 consider: 01:11:45 but this is really just the def/set difference problem tusho mentioned ages ago, and i solved much before that 01:12:02 x = 5 01:12:03 foo = ( x = 6 01:12:04 bar = ( x = 7)) 01:12:23 hmm, getting late 01:12:23 i should start doing my stuff 01:12:23 the stuff i have to do 01:12:23 soon 01:12:23 soon i'll do 01:12:25 the stuff. 01:12:27 oklopol: FIREFOX 3 IS AWESOME 01:12:36 you'd need to have @x in the definition of foo in order to access the higher x 01:12:41 and @@ in bar 01:12:45 which i think is silly 01:14:22 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:14:50 -!- oklopol has joined. 01:15:25 discoed there 01:15:30 anyway, so about the @ thing 01:15:33 my idea was 01:15:33 func = (@ * 5 -> @); func arg -> res 01:15:35 desugars into 01:15:37 inXXX = arg; func = (inXXX * 5 -> outXXX); res = outXXX; 01:15:53 basically, that functions are just syntax for these kinds of dummy vars 01:16:14 well, @inXXX / @outXXX is my suggestion, still 01:16:43 it's not like it takes more to type, and it's conceptually nice given that semantics for @ 01:17:17 well, actually 01:17:45 that is still not that pure, because you have to choose how to use the function @ creation 01:17:56 meh, no matter 01:18:08 also, you just need one dummy now that i come to think of it 01:18:28 s/((out)|(in))XXX/dummyXXX 01:18:39 (XXX is some unique number) 01:19:02 i wonder if i'm online atm 01:19:49 oklopol: yes you are 01:22:08 also if you have a line containing just "function" mean "merge function's reaction list with current scope's" 01:22:16 yeah, function syntax is just sugar for reaction creation using dummy variables 01:22:20 then you can use that for simultaneous reaction additions 01:22:42 example 01:23:12 oklopol, i suggest we provide further sugar, actually. i'd rather foo n = blah rather than foo = ( @ -> n ... blah ) 01:23:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:23:41 -!- oklopol has joined. 01:23:45 o.o 01:24:16 my last? 01:24:20 tusho: my last msg 01:24:24 "example" 01:24:28 ah 01:24:31 5 -> x; (x - 1 -> x; x -> y) y -> output 01:24:34 s/)/);/ 01:24:37 you missed this 01:24:37 augur: oklopol, i suggest we provide further sugar, actually. i'd rather foo n = blah rather than foo = ( @ -> n ... blah ) 01:24:59 too much sugar!! :| 01:25:05 :P 01:25:35 well im going to have it in my implementation. :p 01:25:45 letting you *use* "func n" is pretty crucial, and essential for pureness considering we have mathematical functions already 01:25:54 but 01:26:14 well in okloreact you dont have to have it but i'm going to have it in my implementation. :p 01:26:16 defining it has no need to be... well haskell 01:27:00 haskell is just lisp with optional parens. :) 01:27:11 sure is 01:27:28 fac n? really just (fac n) 01:27:32 after all 01:27:36 fac (fac n) 01:27:43 which looks exactly like (fac (fac n)) 01:27:48 haskell is lisp! 01:27:51 yeah, basically 01:27:57 no difference whatsoever 01:27:59 augur: sorry 01:28:02 you're wronggg 01:28:05 i know 01:28:06 especially re: currying 01:28:13 (a b c) is not ((a b) c) in lisp 01:28:14 but i like to pretend i'm not ;) 01:28:14 in fact 01:28:15 in lisp 01:28:18 (((a))) is not a 01:28:22 tusho: don't assume stupidity, do like me and agree :| 01:28:31 i know, tusho, im being silly 01:28:33 oklopol: I always assume stupidity. :D 01:28:37 augur: As I. 01:28:52 tusho: indeed you do, and often you're right, but please try and save it for the noobs :D 01:29:00 well i guess augur is a bit of a noob 01:29:03 :) 01:29:25 yeah 01:29:25 totally 01:29:35 point and laugh? 01:29:39 * oklopol points and laughs 01:29:39 T_T 01:29:50 anyway 01:29:54 ::sucks oklopols pointed finger:: =d 01:30:04 getting hot in here 01:30:12 gotta remove my clothes 01:30:20 ...right, i'm already nekkid 01:30:26 ::sits on oklopols lap:: 01:30:36 What is this, Alan Turing's house? 01:30:45 oh god i'm so jacking off right now 01:30:48 anyway 01:30:53 what were we talking about? 01:30:58 right, the syntax 01:31:13 hah 01:31:33 oklopol is going to cum in my ass, do you have a problem with this slereah? 01:31:40 Slereah: this is alan turing's house for *two* reasons 01:31:59 Is the second that you're going to become an hero? 01:32:03 one of them is your mother 01:32:07 the other is mine 01:32:11 and they're having hot lesbian sex 01:32:31 augur: do gays like lesbian action? 01:33:32 dbc won with zero sex lag 01:33:58 oklopol: no. lol. why would we? 01:34:41 dunno, i like icecream but i don't have sex with it 01:34:46 well i try, but my cock get's numb 01:34:51 it's hard to figure out who is actually gay in #esoteric. 01:34:54 haha 01:34:59 tusho: everyone, duh. 01:35:00 even you. 01:35:13 except, like, really. 01:35:47 slereah and i are gay, oklopol is bi 01:35:50 tusho: does it matter? 01:36:02 and if you cant handle that, we're going to have to rape you. 01:36:03 tusho hungers for dongs. 01:36:06 oklopol: no, but it would help the conversations be less confusing 01:36:13 :D 01:36:18 i'm bi? good to know 01:36:20 this is #esoteric and you want LESS confusion? 01:36:29 haha 01:36:33 oklopol just got PROFILED 01:36:51 well fuck my ass and call me britney, so i did! 01:37:07 Well, if you insist. 01:37:23 "Relations between pure and applied mathematicians are based on trust and understanding. Namely, pure mathematicians do not trust applied mathematicians, and applied mathematicians do not understand pure mathematicians." 01:37:25 Heh. 01:37:53 oklopol: you fucked your ass and called you britney? 01:38:01 "Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders while computer scientists stand on each other's toes. " 01:38:16 "It has been said that physicists stand on one another's shoulders. If this is the case, then programmers stand on one another's toes, and software engineers dig each other's graves. " 01:38:19 I lolled. 01:39:07 slereah: lol nice quote :) 01:39:16 cool quote 01:39:18 quotes* 01:39:23 cool quotes 01:39:28 http://www.math.utah.edu/~cherk/mathjokes.html 01:39:28 They are from tharr 01:39:34 have you heard the one 01:39:43 i'm going to convert that into fortune(1) format. 01:40:14 biologists like to pretend they're chemists, chemists like to pretend they're physicists, physicists like to pretend they're god, and god likes to pretend he's a mathematician 01:40:15 :) 01:40:48 Yeah, it was in today's XKCD. 01:40:49 biologists like to pretend they're chemists, chemists like to pretend they're physicists, physicists like to pretend they're dog, and dog likes to pretend he's a mathematician 01:40:57 well not quite that one, slereah 01:40:59 but close 01:40:59 Slereah: It's "xkcd". 01:41:02 tho this one is older 01:41:05 And I LIKE TURTLES 01:42:10 we should make reactoscheme 01:42:26 add reactions to scheme 01:42:32 have <- be a special form 01:42:54 and pee 01:42:58 <- and -> 01:43:17 URINE 01:43:23 lemonade 01:43:32 (<- x y) 01:43:50 urine 01:44:31 (urin -> slereah's mouth) 01:44:45 This tastes like urine. 01:44:47 no 01:44:49 it tastes like urin 01:45:23 but prolly has a urin-e taste too 01:45:32 so, what are you guys's majors? 01:45:38 Urinish 01:45:47 Physics. 01:46:00 tusho: don't answer, it's depressing to hear 01:46:06 My minor is ass sexing. 01:46:22 cs 01:46:42 oklopol, have you watched any of the open course ware stuff from MIT? 01:46:48 or berkeley's equivalent? 01:47:04 slereah, have you read SICM? 01:47:31 What? 01:47:37 SICP, mehbe? 01:47:46 structure and interpretation of classical mechanics 01:48:02 I get enough mechanics at school. 01:48:10 its lagrangian mechanics taught as tho it were a scheme lib. 01:48:26 majors? bah! you ancient folk. 01:48:29 when i say "as tho" what i mean is you actually write a scheme lib. :p 01:48:55 Feh. I bet you can't even build a time machine with it. 01:49:07 its scheme, ofcourse you can 01:49:18 (define tm (time-machine)) 01:49:19 You have to use the relativistic Lagrangian for that! 01:49:30 L = sqrt(-g) R 01:50:53 DAMOK 01:50:59 AND JALAR 01:51:01 AT 01:51:03 TANAGRA 01:51:08 JALAD, not JALAR 01:51:09 YOU FAIL 01:51:11 fu 01:51:15 ok 01:53:24 okay, after a long discussion in priv with tusho, we decided it would be best to try and crush your hopes and dreams by revealing he's 12, and already owns you at most things 01:53:30 HAHAHA 01:53:35 try to keep together 01:53:54 12 huh? 01:54:01 You gonna get raped. 01:54:06 :) 01:54:09 ::pulls up in a van with blacked out windows:: 01:54:12 hey kid, want some candy? 01:54:22 :D 01:54:24 augur: YES PLIS 01:54:33 oh guys 01:54:53 have you heard that vent chat where this little 11 year old is playing with some 20+s 01:54:59 its so hilarious 01:55:04 vent chat? 01:55:08 ventrillo 01:55:12 ventrillo 01:55:12 ? 01:55:17 some thing the WOWers use to voice chat 01:55:28 go onto youtube and search for ventrillo harassment 01:55:30 its genius 01:55:38 Meh. 01:55:44 So tusho. 01:55:47 is it the one where he cries when his parents close the game? 01:55:48 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:48 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:49 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:50 So Slereah. 01:55:52 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:53 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:55 IVE GOT BALLS OF STEEL 01:55:57 Do you enjoy gladiator movies? 01:55:58 Um. 01:56:01 Slereah: Lols. 01:56:08 Gladiator was a good movie 01:56:22 Ever been in a Turkish prison? 01:56:34 cool prison 01:56:40 tusho can come to my turkish prison any time he wants 01:56:49 that's some contrived innuendo there 01:57:06 What, you never saw the movie "Airplane"? 01:57:06 actually no, i really do have a turkish prison 01:57:09 shame on you. 01:57:15 Airplane, REALLY good movie 01:57:22 Awesome movie. 01:57:25 so cool 01:57:31 so cool an one movies 01:57:41 i should watch airplane again 01:57:44 i havent seen it in ages 01:58:09 why watch airplane when you can just wiggle your toes and watch them? 01:58:20 aww, oklopol is so cute 01:58:21 oklopol: intriguing 01:58:28 oklopol is high 01:58:31 ::glomps oklopol:: you're so cute 01:58:34 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 01:58:45 my toes are quite cute, i have to admit. 01:58:54 i demand pictures of oklofeet 01:59:00 as proof. 01:59:05 and masturbation material. 01:59:06 augur: i hear you're a bottom, shouldn't you be more into the rugged manly type? 01:59:16 augur: noted 01:59:19 i am a bottom, but no. 01:59:33 oklopol : augur's taste in men is dorks, from what I can see 01:59:33 just cause i like cock in my ass doesnt mean i like the rugged manly type 02:01:29 i guess i'm being a bit black-and-white 02:02:04 What are you, a half-nigger? 02:02:25 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 02:02:29 no a zebra 02:02:49 tbh i'm a fucking polyhedron 02:02:51 i'd do a zebra. such a big hard cock... mmm 02:03:13 Slereah: are you saying i'm a dork, or is it just for the guys he actually gets? 02:03:15 This is turning into #isharia 02:03:26 Well, he showed me his dream boy 02:03:31 He looks like a total dork 02:03:32 oklopol: he's saying that since i find you hot, you must be a dork 02:03:44 what's a dork? 02:04:03 a whale penis. 02:04:08 i'm totally out of the loop on #esoteric. everyone seems to come from one or two irc channels and I only know about one of them :p 02:04:16 from wikipedia: "USA slang for a quirky, silly and/or stupid, socially inept person, or one who is out of touch with contemporary trends" 02:04:28 tusho: i just know #eso ppl on freenode. 02:04:42 came here for this channel, i mainly just idle on my other chans 02:04:47 you've followed me to like four other rooks, oklopol, dont lie 02:04:54 oklopol: well, it seems half of everyone here is from Sine 02:04:54 you're in #proglangdesign RIGHT THIS MINUTE 02:04:56 and #parsers 02:05:03 and the other half is from some place called #isharia 02:05:07 and the third half is random crap 02:05:09 oh, well ok, i guess #proglangdesign would be just as interesting given more content 02:05:22 yeah, #proglangdesign is slow :( 02:05:34 tusho: sgeo is from there, and has recruited ppl there 02:05:41 oklopol: yeah I know 02:05:41 Well, SimonRC doesn't talk anymore 02:05:44 i've been on sine a few times 02:05:44 but meh 02:05:47 and SimonRC does so talk. 02:05:48 oklopol, i wanna create a parser for a language with movement. :O 02:05:54 SimonRC 02:05:59 Say stuff 02:05:59 is here from #isharia too, I seem to recall him mentioning it at one point 02:06:03 *he 02:06:06 Yes he is 02:06:26 We're like the three musketeers, except we're not four 02:06:32 SimonRC has been active 02:06:36 in my time 02:06:53 SimonRC was active like a few days ago. 02:07:10 but yeah, i've prolly been active actively for the longest now 02:07:14 anyway, I had no idea about Sine until I saw a screenshot with it on sgeo's website which I was poking around 02:07:20 and then someone told me the address a bit later 02:07:21 :-P 02:07:46 hmm 02:07:57 well i guess ihope and ais523 are active 02:08:00 and older than me 02:08:17 older in #eso-activity 02:08:19 wow, the people who wrote that wikipedia article on dorks are real dorks 02:08:27 Let's do the hokey pokey 02:08:32 because IHOPE IS 15 AND OWNS ALL YOU YOU IN MATH. 02:08:39 or 14. 02:08:42 not sure 02:08:45 and I'M 12 AND I OWN YOU ALL IN BEING ANNOYING. 02:08:47 oklopol: 15 02:08:53 assumed 02:08:57 *all of you 02:09:17 tusho : Don't make me use my trolling gear 02:09:23 Slereah: you always use it. 02:09:28 But moar 02:09:34 is that even possible 02:09:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Excess Flood). 02:10:16 :D 02:10:18 -!- Slereah7 has joined. 02:10:20 oklopol depresses me. :\ 02:10:26 :o 02:10:26 I depresses me. 02:10:29 augur: how so? 02:10:32 I cheer me up 02:10:36 :D 02:10:43 because you'd be a great boyfriend. :P 02:10:48 prolly :) 02:10:55 we'd be so great together! 02:10:59 i hate your girlfriend :( 02:11:06 we could code together all night and have sex on the side... 02:11:08 uhhhh 02:11:18 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 02:11:24 ^^ the beginning of a long lasting relationship ^^ 02:11:28 i guess i'm being a bit mean... or sexy? 02:11:35 both! 02:11:38 oklosexy. 02:14:05 So tusho, what do you want to be when you grow up 02:14:06 A fireman? 02:14:09 An astronaut? 02:14:17 Slereah7: A PEDOPHILE! 02:14:30 You can't, the market is full. 02:14:50 What. 02:14:55 All my hopes and dreams. 02:14:56 Shattered. 02:15:09 Welcome to Bush America 02:15:21 i'm in england. 02:15:23 tusho: do what i did, take pictures of yourself now, so you can jack off to them when you're an incest-loving old gay pedophile 02:15:39 oklopol: hey now that's a clever idea! 02:15:43 indeed! 02:15:58 BEE ARE BEE 02:16:01 :p 02:16:09 Film yourself eating some feces, just in case you grow up to be into pedoscat 02:16:25 self pedoscat? 02:16:29 no, I'll have perfected my photoshoop skills by then 02:17:18 i guess in case you turn out to be a pedocoprophiliac you might wanna put some feces in the freezer or smth. 02:17:45 For a delicious frozen treat 02:17:57 -!- Slereah7 has changed nick to Slereah. 02:18:13 hmm, #esoteric-sex might be more feasible nowadays 02:18:18 used to be just me and bsmnt 02:18:55 um 02:18:58 couldn't that just be 02:19:00 #esoteric-blah 02:19:09 which is, uh, the offtopic counterpart to #esoteric 02:19:11 Couldn't that just be #esoteric 02:19:13 tho mostly only used for bawtz. 02:19:35 Slereah: well sure, except some might not enjoy the filth 02:19:37 hmm 02:19:45 wonder who these some are. 02:19:49 probably none 02:20:05 oklopol: ais523 doesn't really like it 02:20:10 that's why he leaves quite often 02:20:11 well yeah 02:20:27 and prolly oerjie too, but he's a full-time idler anyways nowadays 02:21:31 tusho: has he actually said that? 02:21:46 yes, in #ESO or somewhere 02:21:48 or just left when someone has been naughty? 02:21:52 no, he's said it 02:22:44 LIVE FREE OR DON'T 02:22:55 :) 02:23:41 i guess all irc channels have the same issue 02:23:57 Especially with augur! 02:23:57 except on bigger ones there is the occasional "stop, that's disgusting" 02:24:02 who is ignored 02:24:13 well, it IS a bit of a problem here 02:24:15 I mean, it's amusing 02:24:20 but, you know, we could talk about esolangs sometime. 02:24:23 heh :) 02:24:24 and actually keep on topic. 02:25:19 Well, if you know priority symbols from before 1202, I could work them somewhere in Arithmetica! 02:25:36 Programming without parenthesis or PN is a pain in the ass. 02:25:37 arithmetica? 02:25:45 do you have naming? 02:25:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Arithmetica 02:25:51 that's a way to scope 02:25:57 Naming? 02:26:19 wait what? 02:27:00 a = 5 + 6 02:27:05 b = a * 3 02:27:12 for (5 + 6) * 3 02:27:44 Well, maybe. 02:27:50 But that seems like troubles. 02:28:07 Of course, looking for mathematics from the third century is too, in a way 02:28:22 mathematics is eternal! 02:28:24 afk watching CS61C 02:28:29 hf 02:28:52 Slereah: so it's basically a way to denote equations and shit? 02:28:53 Mathematics from the olden day was horrible to read 02:29:09 oklopol : Well, that's mostly what Arithmetica was 02:29:25 slereah: what if mathematics today is horrible to read compared to math from 4000 AD? 02:29:26 :o 02:29:29 The first book to have mathematical notation, but it was mostly created for equations. 02:29:49 cool equations 02:29:52 It's from Diophantus, the guy that gave his name to diophantine equations 02:29:58 ah 02:30:15 i derived the way to solve those recently 02:30:35 You can't solve generally diophantine equations 02:30:39 Gödel proved that! 02:30:48 err then i'm thinking of something else 02:31:03 what's diop.? 02:31:29 I think it's just polynoms. 02:31:43 NOM NOM 02:31:55 "In mathematics, a Diophantine equation is an indeterminate polynomial equation that allows the variables to be integers only." 02:32:21 ah. 02:32:29 i thought it was just the simple form that had the name 02:32:44 "In 1970, a novel result in mathematical logic known as Matiyasevich's theorem settled the problem negatively: in general Diophantine problems are unsolvable." 02:32:45 X + AY = C 02:32:48 1970? :o 02:33:00 Wait 02:33:04 well they could've been solvable for integers 02:33:07 Where's my Gödel book 02:33:07 even if not for reals 02:33:31 because there's not X-jection integer -> real 02:34:07 Well, it doesn't matter a lot 02:34:16 There's no constructive set of reals. 02:34:47 "Diophantine equivalents of undecidable proposition" 02:34:58 i'm justt saying the lack of that jection (supply correct term pls) means it's not a trivial result 02:35:03 From Gödel 02:35:05 *just 02:36:40 "Thus there exists a statement about the solutions of a diophantine equation which is not decidable in our formal system." 02:36:52 Hm. Maybe the dude showed it was impossible in general 02:37:05 what's the diff? 02:37:09 Of course, it would be true for all formal system 02:37:32 Well, not all mathematical problems have to be solved by formal systems 02:44:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:45:32 nooooo! :( 02:45:35 miss oklopol 02:45:40 -!- oklopol has joined. 02:45:43 yay! 02:53:33 I wonder 02:53:45 I sometimes see that esolangs are used for educational purposes 02:53:50 But are there any examples? 02:56:28 Slereah: not really. 02:57:23 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:57:52 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:08:07 bye for today :) 03:08:21 -!- tusho has quit. 03:40:40 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:40:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:23:14 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:24:26 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:24:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:04:15 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Anyone alive [that can help with regexps]? 14:37:54 sure 14:38:51 yay, well essentially, if I want to pass only strings that don't contain two letters specified in an array, in immediate succession, what kind of logic must I use? 14:38:54 essentially 14:39:09 say the array is ['a','b','c'] 14:39:23 I want adbec to pass, but abd to fail etc 14:39:57 I can only get as far as +{1,5}? 14:40:00 which is not right 14:40:04 PS: it's in python 14:42:10 as in, oklopol, I'm a total newcomer to it in Python, so don't expect me to be much help ;) 14:42:30 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 14:43:55 def check(l):return all(map(lambda(a,b):abs(ord(a)-ord(b))!=1,zip(l,l[1:]))) 14:44:41 right, you get the following: 14:44:42 temp1 = ['abc','abd','adb'] 14:44:42 temp2 = ['a','b'] 14:44:42 for p in range(len(temp1)): if someOKLOPOLmagic: pop(temp1(p)) 14:44:42 the condition being, you cannot have more than one of anything in tempt 2 together in anything in temp1 14:47:53 wait, the condition is way too complicated for a regexp 14:48:01 actually, nevermind 14:48:07 but thanks anyway :) 14:48:24 * Hiato sets out to do it procedurally 14:49:01 hmm 14:49:16 temp1 is a list 14:49:19 and you're calling it 14:49:23 yep 14:49:25 temp1(p) 14:49:29 my bad 14:49:30 i have no idea what magid this is 14:49:31 oh 14:49:32 temp1[p] 14:49:34 i see, i see 14:49:53 but, it's possible i misunderstood what you needed 14:50:11 check tells you whether a string/list contains characters one apart from each other 14:50:13 oh, right 15:18:11 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:50:34 -!- tusho has joined. 15:50:50 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:51:06 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:51:29 halo oklopol 15:57:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:58:00 -!- tusho has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:58:22 -!- tusho has joined. 15:59:20 halo 16:03:06 halo 16:24:23 hal 16:27:37 -!- oklofok has joined. 16:27:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset 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has set channel mode: +o lament. 18:26:40 lol wut lament? 18:26:42 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b *!*n=cmeme@*.b9.com. 18:26:48 oh 18:26:48 heh 18:26:57 speaking of which, this channel will be logged soon 18:27:06 like. reliably. 18:27:07 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 18:27:14 hopefully it already is, no?.. by clog? 18:28:04 lament: but not in a convenient interface 18:28:18 there's irseek for that :) 18:28:27 lament: I've already expressed my objections to irseek. 18:28:33 Besides, mine will import all the logs clog did. 18:28:39 = far more useful 18:29:18 yarly 18:30:06 lament: what on earth is the correct response to 'yarly' without 'orly' before it? 18:30:13 'orly' or 'nowai' or 'YOU GOT IT WRONG DAMNIT' 18:40:37 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 18:54:45 Or "I don't believe it!" 18:54:55 Which should be answered by "HABEEB IT!" 19:09:32 wtf @ http://dagobah.biz/flash/the_worlds_hardest_game.swf 19:09:46 incredibly easy :| 19:11:06 bimonthly take-out-the-trash -> 19:11:31 -!- revcompgeek has joined. 19:11:38 -!- revcompgeek has left (?). 19:16:43 oklopol : Try "I want to be the guy" 19:18:29 Slereah7: yes. 19:22:22 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 19:33:19 is it the beta build i'm supposed to load? 19:33:28 http://kayin.pyoko.org/iwbtg/downloads.php tell me what to click 19:34:22 oklopol: IWTBG Beta Build Frame Skip 19:34:29 or if your machine is ANCIENT, Slomo (I use frame skip.) 19:34:41 oklopol: Then, put it on the desktop or something and run it. 19:34:45 Controls: 19:34:48 Left+Right = Move 19:34:51 Shift = Jump 19:34:53 Z = Shoot. 19:35:15 And then, kill yourself without playing it. 19:36:41 i'm getting 4.5 kb/s, so may take a while before i can try that 19:36:55 oklopol: then 19:36:59 Click Here to Download Demo! 19:37:15 it includes the first 3 bosses ... which take like weeks of determined practice to get to anyway 19:37:55 Heh. 19:38:01 I never got past the first screen. 19:38:23 Slereah7: Just jump up the top. 19:38:26 It's the easiest route. 19:38:55 I tried 19:39:01 But I can't jump high enough 19:39:21 Slereah7: Double jump, dude. 19:39:24 Press shift twice. 19:39:32 Also tried 19:39:48 Slereah7: You have to move to the right to actually land on something... 19:39:49 I can't, you know, get enough on the right to reach the floor 19:39:56 I know. 19:40:02 Slereah7: Um. Just keep trying. It's easy. I got it first time. 19:40:05 I played enough Mario to know the drill! 19:40:05 You're just being too clever. 19:40:11 Just: 19:40:13 Hold down right 19:40:14 Press jump 19:40:16 Press jump again 19:41:00 Ah, got it 19:41:19 But I was killed by an apple :o 19:41:30 Slereah7: You have to run into them, then away before they fall. 19:41:34 And you have to jump over some of them. 19:41:38 Also, they're giant cherries. 19:41:50 I'll try as soon as I get back up 19:41:57 Jeez. 19:42:01 It's not even hard. 19:42:02 In any way. 19:42:15 Yes it are >:| 19:42:33 Slereah7: Watch a video of it on youtube. 19:42:33 :P 19:42:47 Slereah7: Oh. 19:42:50 I know your problem. 19:42:57 You should press jump when you reach your peak. 19:43:00 Not straight after the first. 19:43:07 Oh. 19:43:34 Fucking cherry. 19:43:39 Slereah7: Yeah. 19:43:44 Those are a bit infuriating. 19:43:57 judging by the youtube clip the first part is trivial 19:44:01 i mean 19:44:03 oklopol: you'd think 19:44:04 but no 19:44:06 till the first savepoint 19:44:11 no 19:44:16 because you move fast 19:44:18 it's hard to get precision 19:44:26 perhaps. 19:44:32 it's loaded @ 12% 19:44:38 err 17% 19:44:40 but still 19:44:48 oklopol: stop watching the youtube video, it'll spoil all the suprises 19:44:48 :P 19:46:05 Ah shit 19:46:09 I almost crossed it! 19:46:10 Slereah7: wut 19:46:12 yeah 19:46:13 that happens a lot 19:46:14 BUT 19:46:16 you memorize the first part 19:46:18 quickly 19:46:23 so its not that painful 19:46:45 Slereah7: the thing is that this game is actually fun 19:46:49 not in the 'whee this is fun' sense 19:46:59 but in the 'HAHAHAHA YES I GOT PAST THIS PART YOU FUCKING GAME I ROCK SO FUCKING MUCH' 19:47:02 sense 19:47:19 A big problem is the shift key 19:47:29 Slereah7: maybe you should try a gamepad 19:47:31 If I press it 5 times in a row, I get some windows thingamabob 19:47:33 oh 19:47:35 Slereah7: that's easy 19:47:37 press settings 19:47:43 and 'configure' on the stickykeys thing 19:47:47 and deselect 'Use keycombination' 19:47:49 or w/e 19:47:51 tusho: i watched just till the first part 19:47:53 something similar to that 19:47:54 but it stops it 19:48:01 wanted to see what it looks like 19:48:11 * Hiato is still laughing about the 2:1 result 19:48:13 Fuck 19:48:18 I jumped in a Cherry 19:48:23 Slereah7: hurr 19:48:41 Slereah7: 19:48:42 btw 19:48:45 hope you're playing on Medium 19:48:50 those wuss points are invaluable 19:48:58 Yeah. 19:49:02 and the bow-tie is funny 19:49:06 once you get to a save point, you've definitely achieved something? i mean, is it straightforward? 19:49:06 I'm not stupid enough to do hard on my first game 19:49:13 oklopol: huh? 19:49:18 i mean 19:49:20 oklopol: anyway, just a note 19:49:21 when you play it 19:49:24 set the difficulty to Medium 19:49:26 is it possible to go the wrong way 19:49:27 I think he means "Can I do something wrong" 19:49:31 ah 19:49:31 yeah 19:49:36 oklopol: no, you can't go wrong 19:49:39 but there are multiple paths 19:49:46 in particular, you beat one boss, then go back and do another 19:49:46 etc 19:49:48 i think 19:49:51 (it's all one big map) 19:50:01 oklopol: anyway, choose Medium - all the skills effect are the number of save points 19:50:03 and you really need them 19:50:10 (Well, Medium puts a pink bow-tie on your character for being a wuss.) 19:50:30 i'll try medium if hard is hard 19:50:34 oklopol: it is 19:50:35 trust me on this 19:50:39 no 19:50:41 Medium is nigh-on impossible anyway 19:50:43 i won't trust you :) 19:50:57 oklopol: dude, right after the cherries (REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING) is a bit that'll take you like 50 tries to get right 19:51:02 you don't wanna have to do the cherries every time 19:51:09 there's a wuss point right after the cherries though 19:51:13 i.e. only available on Medium 19:51:20 I read that some games unlock the easy mode if you die enough 19:51:26 in fact, the FAQ tells all new players to START ON MEDIUM DAMNIT 19:51:33 But they put you in a tutu or something for being such a pansy. 19:51:38 blah 19:51:43 tusho: okay, okay 19:51:46 Slereah7: Well, look at the main character on medium. 19:51:52 That pink thing isn't there on anythiing but medium. :P 19:52:06 So, this game is one of them, except it's always unlocked 19:52:08 I know 19:52:09 is there an "easy" 19:52:13 oklopol: nope 19:52:15 Well, I cleared the falling cherries. 19:52:18 Medium, Hard, Very Hard, Impossible 19:52:21 ah :D 19:52:23 Impossible has no save points at all - so it literally is. 19:52:24 Now, how to jump on the platform... 19:52:30 well i would've started on impossible 19:52:33 haha xD 19:52:45 oklopol: Medium will rape you from the inside anyway 19:52:46 :P 19:52:46 Well, there's always some nutso who actually do the "impossible" levels and such 19:52:59 Slereah7: Not on this game. 19:53:03 Because, uh, the game is very big. 19:53:07 Like that guy who managed to finish Postal 2 without killing anyone. 19:53:13 And it has loads of one-pixel=OOP I DIED 19:53:21 tusho : Believe me, you'll always find a nut. 19:53:27 I mean, if you're really good. You'll die like 100 times on Medium. 19:53:35 REALLY good. 19:53:52 Slereah7: Shiet. You're right. 19:53:52 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSqQ8Qjc9fs&feature=related 19:54:09 But the person doing thati s a retard. 19:54:35 ... 19:54:37 AAAAAAAH 19:54:40 Slereah7: What. 19:54:46 THE CHERRIES FALL BACKWARDS 19:54:52 Fuck you game 19:54:55 Slereah7: I thought you said you cleared that. 19:55:04 Oh, btw. To use a save/wuss point shoot it. 19:55:06 It'll go green. 19:55:18 I know 19:55:27 I meant that I cleared the cherries that fall, you know 19:55:30 The right way 19:55:35 Slereah7: oh 19:55:40 well, it's not hard the second time 19:55:41 and.. 19:55:43 just jump out of their way. 19:55:59 But how? :o 19:56:07 The first one, I have like a 1cm wide platform 19:56:23 Slereah7: Start to jump on to the next platform, then immediately press right to get back. 19:57:01 Man 19:57:15 I'm not sure I want to be the guy. 19:57:21 Slereah7: It's a bit hard getting used to it. 19:57:27 Die a few more times and it should become second nature. :P 19:57:35 Ah, there it goes 19:57:45 Slereah7: Btw. 19:57:47 For the very last one. 19:57:54 You just have to double jump on to the last platform 19:57:56 I wonder if I can shoot the savepoint from here. 19:57:58 And hold down left to do it. 19:58:03 And no. 19:58:05 You can't. 19:58:14 But yeah, the last one you just GTFO on to the next platform before it hits you. 19:58:56 Two cherries left! 19:59:20 Slereah7: the last one under the platform just falls downwards. 19:59:34 The second-last one (the one before the wuss point) you just have to jump and be fast enough 19:59:35 Oh. 19:59:37 Goodies. 20:00:02 Ah shit 20:00:06 I fell back underground 20:00:10 Slereah7: that's ok 20:00:13 the cherries are still gone 20:00:22 so just run back 20:01:07 This game could use a gravgun 20:01:14 And an HEV suit. 20:01:21 Slereah7: Quite. 20:01:36 Savepoint! 20:01:44 Slereah7: Wusspoint or save point? 20:01:51 Isn't it both? 20:01:54 Slereah7: Yes. 20:01:56 But one is marked WUSS. 20:02:05 Oh, btw. When you get beyond the clouds, don't go <-- to the left. Go ^ up with the EVIL SPIKY FALLDOWN 20:02:51 Good thing the game over music isn't annoying. 20:03:01 Slereah7: Was that sarcasm? 20:03:04 Because you can turn off the moo-sic. 20:03:07 No. 20:04:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:05:06 Ah shit 20:05:16 I jumped too far and landed on a spike :o 20:05:27 Slereah7: Heh 20:05:30 You gotta save point though. 20:06:13 GAH THIS BIT IS IMPOSSIBLE> 20:06:13 Almost! 20:07:05 How do I get from the cloud that goes up to the leftmost cloud? 20:07:20 Slereah7: Well that's the challengy bit. 20:07:25 I mean, you need to get off it, right? 20:07:30 Well, where are your exits from that cloud? 20:07:46 indeed, just brute force itt. 20:07:46 Well, spikes on the left 20:07:48 itttt 20:07:51 Spikes on the right 20:07:53 pikes under 20:07:55 Slereah7: Spikes on the RIGHT? 20:07:57 Spikes over 20:08:03 We're talking about the cloud that goes up. 20:08:06 There's no spikes to the right of that. 20:08:10 There's a way off the cloud. 20:08:19 Slereah7: And you can change your direction mid-fall. 20:08:20 So: 20:08:25 That "way off" is less than one centimeter. 20:08:26 Walk off the right edge of the cloud as it goes upwards. 20:08:31 Then, immediately hold down left 20:08:36 Double jump half-way there. 20:08:38 Slereah7: No it's not. 20:08:39 Sure, my character is ten pixels wide 20:08:41 Do it as soon as you get onto it. 20:08:42 But still 20:09:16 I didn't even got the time to get to the middle of it :o 20:09:47 Slereah7: Lemme show you an mspaint. 20:11:53 Slereah7: Just a sce. 20:12:24 Slereah7: K, here: 20:12:27 http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08244/sdfdsf890.png 20:12:34 Oh. 20:12:38 Red line = where to go when you land on planet Goupcloud. 20:13:06 Fuck. 20:13:14 The jump key isn't always very responsive :( 20:13:19 Slereah7: No, actually... 20:13:21 But 20:13:27 You can't double jump when you go below your peak 20:13:28 that is 20:13:31 _-^-_ 20:13:34 WHen you get to the second - 20:13:37 you can't double jump any more 20:13:38 Oh. 20:14:01 The descending cloud actually *flex* when I'm over it! 20:14:06 It just wants me dead 20:14:09 Fuck you cloud. 20:14:18 Slereah7: Flex? 20:14:19 What? 20:14:29 I mean 20:14:40 It doesn't actually descend because of gravity or anything. 20:14:47 This cloud has a mind of its own 20:15:01 Slereah7: You mean the middle cloud? 20:15:09 It makes as much sense as cherries falling upwards. 20:15:16 If you're over it, but before you land, you can see it going down and up. 20:15:22 Oh. 20:15:23 Heh. 20:15:30 Yes. The environment is very hostile. 20:15:50 Oh course, if a guy with a pink bow jumped on my back, I would send him to his death 20:16:34 oh wow 20:16:37 I just got further than ever there 20:16:41 Slereah7: I figure I shoudl warn you: 20:16:45 You know the final cloud? 20:16:49 You know the peice of land with the save point? 20:16:53 Well, the landing you have on to that. 20:16:55 When you land on to it. 20:17:01 A huge spike thing comes down at you. 20:17:12 What you should do: Jump on to it from the cloud, then jump on to the other peice of land on the left immediately. 20:17:17 Once it's fallen down, jump onto it and go up. 20:17:21 Er 20:17:22 After saving 20:18:05 Oh man. I just got past the next screen but a spike came down frmo a cloud on to me. 20:18:05 Bitch. 20:22:34 Slereah7: Which part are you up to? 20:22:38 Because oh man. The next bit sucks. 20:22:44 I'm almost up to the first boss, too. 20:22:45 Mike Tyson! 20:22:53 I'm not playing right now 20:23:22 Slereah7: wot! 20:24:24 I'm reading hilarious things. 20:24:29 http://www.home-school.com/Articles/ 20:25:00 It seems they don't like computers much 20:25:16 And from what I can see, that they never actually had to search for information 20:31:59 okay, it is pretty hard getting anywhere as shift doesn't always do the second jump 20:32:04 should it? 20:32:20 oklopol : USE MEDIUM MODE 20:32:39 Slereah7: thanks good answer 20:32:44 oklopol: heh 20:32:47 oklopol: anyway, read up 20:32:48 basically 20:32:50 _-^-_ 20:32:52 is a jump 20:32:55 by the point of the second - 20:32:57 you can't double-jump 20:33:00 you have to do it at the peak or earlier 20:33:04 To word it in english: 20:33:10 When you start _falling_ after your jump, you can't double jump. 20:33:15 ah. 20:33:26 but can you jump if you just fall? 20:33:33 oklopol: yes 20:33:36 ah 20:33:38 after you just fall you can do one more jump 20:33:42 oklopol: what part are you at? 20:33:58 i just started 20:34:25 oklopol: which path are you going 20:34:28 upwards to the cherries? 20:34:29 you should. 20:34:33 uppie 20:34:36 good 20:43:12 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:43:46 -!- oklopol has joined. 20:46:12 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:47:32 "Just as in real education there is a point at which mathematics or chemistry or a foreign language aren't "fun" any more if you actually want to master them." 20:47:37 Fuck you home schooling 20:47:40 Science is fun. 20:47:57 Science involves too much reality for my taste :/ 20:47:58 Math is very, very fun. 20:47:58 Slereah7: I think you're trying to say 'fuck you home-school.com'. 20:48:18 i wish i were home schooled 20:48:27 (although I may have just not hit that point. Of course, if I hit that point, then it'd probably be in grad school. :p) 20:49:15 Science isn't fun for them. 20:49:20 Because god said it 20:49:22 Pi = 3 20:49:52 No, pi ~= 3. (though that is a poor estimate) 20:50:20 tusho: is there a trick to the room with the invisible blocks? 20:50:30 oklopol: don't go that way 20:50:31 go upwards 20:50:36 oh 20:50:37 thanks 20:51:05 i know i possible, i did the second jump twice already, and the third is equal to that... but it'll take me a week. 20:52:04 what game is this? 20:52:10 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 20:52:23 Sgeo: I Wanna Be The Guy: The Movie: The Game 20:53:14 Imagine an old school platform game 20:53:21 Now imagine it full of fake difficulty. 20:53:28 Slereah7: And love. 20:54:29 No time for love, tusho 20:54:44 hit 20:54:46 Shit 20:54:51 I almost was on the last cloud 20:54:51 hey :D 20:55:22 link? 20:55:32 Sgeo: GOOGLE 20:55:35 DAMNIT! 20:57:28 tusho: how far are you? 20:57:46 oklopol: when you go up and get got by the spikes 20:57:49 i'm at the bit after the spikes 20:57:59 where you're on a platform going left and right and have to avoid spikes by jumping over them 20:58:56 "Evolution Theory Adds No Information to Science" 20:59:07 This is what it all comes down to 20:59:50 You know, evolution was recently observed in an E. Coli population in a lab. . . 21:00:14 The E. Coli evolved the ability to metabolise citrate after a few thousand generations. 21:00:39 pikhq: Uh. Isn't it like standard biology class stuff to evolve some bacteria? 21:00:48 I think the creationists deny _macro-scale_ evolution. 21:00:53 Not micro-scale. That would be even stupider. 21:00:54 To that extent? 21:00:57 -!- tusho has left (?). 21:01:34 -!- tusho has joined. 21:01:39 They usually go something like "Well you don't see a dog born to a cat, do you!" 21:01:39 Whoopsie. 21:01:43 (the ability to metabolise citrate is a fairly complex ability; that ability is actually used to differentiate between a few different bacteria species) 21:02:12 oklopol :D 21:02:18 ...me? :o 21:02:19 Because creationism is made for people who have no clue as to what science is. 21:02:23 you! :o 21:02:24 <3 21:02:25 "Well, a dog is still a dog!" 21:03:05 slereah, i just realized. part of it is that people have a sort of built in platonism with regard to types 21:03:25 and so its hard for them to grasp that theres no such thing as A Dog in the first place 21:03:26 This recently observed thing is like a dog, over many generations, evolving the ability to chew cud. 21:03:56 BUT IT IS STILL A DOG :o 21:04:07 They usually refer to the biblical "kind". 21:04:09 How many dogs chew cud? 21:04:14 Of course, they have no clue what a kind is. 21:04:16 pikhq: This one. 21:04:17 :P 21:04:31 It sure as hell ain't Canis lupus. 21:04:45 Why is a wolf closer to a terrier than a fox. 21:04:49 Perhaps Canis ungulatus? 21:05:11 slereah: just because. 21:05:16 A terrier is Canis lupus domesticus. A wolf is Canis lupus . 21:05:33 canis lupus better-than-fucking-dogs-icus 21:06:11 Yes, but you know 21:06:17 For creationists 21:06:21 Look is everything 21:06:21 Anyways, off I go. 21:06:40 tumtitum 21:08:02 -!- pikhq has left (?). 21:11:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:13:08 Shit 21:13:13 I was on the last cloud 21:13:20 But moved TOO FAR TO THE LEFT 21:13:22 Slereah7: Yeah. 21:13:23 That sucks. 21:13:25 It's a glitch. 21:13:26 I didn't even know you could fall! 21:13:30 MORALE: DON'T DO THAT 21:14:37 tusho: where are you now? 21:15:01 oklopol: I shut it down. But I'll start again 21:15:02 a bit annoying to wait for 5 minutes for tyson and then die as i have no idea what do to 21:15:12 oklopol: huh? 21:15:19 you shoot him 21:15:22 oh 21:15:23 man 21:15:26 SICP is so fucking awesome 21:15:28 he doesn't show he's hurt? 21:15:33 oklopol: he goes ow. 21:15:41 watch a vidyo. 21:15:44 :| 21:15:53 nah 21:16:55 wtf where di my parallels winxp go 21:17:13 ok i think i hurt him a few times 21:18:03 oklopol: yeah I'm not sure msyelf 21:20:39 The problem with this game is, you don't have the time to make a mistake 21:20:49 -!- RedDak has quit ("Killed (NickServ (Comando GHOST usato da DIO))"). 21:24:19 Slereah7: you're still at the beginning? 21:24:22 well 21:24:27 not at i'm for longer :D 21:24:33 for longer? 21:24:35 lol. 21:25:10 i managed to walk past him! 21:25:15 once 21:25:22 "What You Should Know About Computer Models Jason Makansi tells us how to tell if a computer projection is likely to be accurate or wildly wrong." 21:25:26 Man. 21:25:30 This is going to be lulz 21:25:44 Also "Going to College at Home Paula Mann shows how you can do it." 21:27:08 okay, i know how to pass him now 21:27:14 but... i have no idea how to hurt him. 21:27:27 oklopol: you shoot him in the right place 21:27:29 at the right moment 21:27:58 yeah, but what might that be 21:28:05 OH MY GO 21:28:05 D 21:28:07 I FUCKED UP MY SAVE 21:28:12 BY SAVING RIGHT WHERE THE LIGHTNING BOLT COMES DOWN 21:29:11 i hurt him!!! 21:29:18 so cool 21:29:35 heh 21:29:46 well till mike tyson it was pretty easy 21:29:57 and this is prolly easy too, just hard to figure out 21:31:43 "The chief advantage of enrolling in Edison's Guided Study courses or using these books/programs (doing it on the cheap) over your children attending the local community college is that parents can watch videos with their children and point out what is wrong." 21:31:53 I'm sure parents are qualified for such courses. 21:32:35 Although I think it's mostly "EVOLUTION IS WRONG" whenever it comes up 21:32:37 especially with this goddamned wait 21:32:46 hopefully only takes three hits :| 21:34:26 oklopol: ifuckinghatetheplatformyouhavetogoonbeforetheroombeforemiketyson 21:36:41 oklopol: oh my god 21:36:43 the stars kill you 21:36:44 what the fuck 21:36:47 that is evil 21:36:48 fucking game 21:37:03 "Want to rescue people? Forget Final Fantasy 7 - join Civil Air Patrol. Kids as young as 11 can join and participate in real search and rescue." 21:37:10 Yeah, that's much more exciting. 21:37:15 getting a bit tired, hard is okay, but i hate it when i have no idea what to do 21:37:28 "Stuck on Doom and Quake? Maybe your teen needs to take a hunter safety course and learn what guns are really all about. " 21:37:38 Can I hunt giant eyeballs and zombies? 21:37:44 well, i know how to get the first hit, but he comes at me totally differently the second time 21:37:47 Fuck you home school 21:37:47 oklopol: Watch a video. 21:37:48 infuriating 21:37:50 It'll tell you how. 21:38:00 Slereah7: correction, fuck you home-school.com 21:38:52 It's harder to write 21:39:04 oklopol: Wtf. 21:39:07 A lot of the articles have nothing to do with home schooling 21:39:08 tusho: i found that extremely simple :) 21:39:12 Fall down inthe room before mike tyson 21:39:13 THAT MAKES NO SENSE 21:39:14 It's just about evolution and global warming. 21:39:37 -!- Corun has joined. 21:40:26 FUCK 21:40:33 Too far to the left again 21:40:35 lol :D 21:40:35 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 21:40:42 I don't want to be the guy 21:40:45 Fuck you, guy 21:40:56 Slereah7: in the room before mike tyson 21:40:59 how do you get on to the last bit 21:40:59 You're nothing but... AN EPIC FAIL GUY 21:40:59 err 21:40:59 oklopol: 21:41:07 because I can get up to the box that goes down 21:41:09 but not past that 21:41:17 tusho: jump and shoot 21:41:23 oklopol: shoot what 21:41:26 save 21:42:09 hmm... 21:42:14 oklopol: ok 21:42:16 now for mike tyson 21:42:18 wish me luck 21:42:22 i may have come up with the way to kill that bitch 21:42:24 heh 21:42:26 good luck 21:43:22 oklopol: wow 21:43:26 how on earth do you do that 21:43:37 timing 21:43:45 but 21:43:53 it's still not easy 21:43:57 i just may know how it's done. 21:44:24 Died for the second time. 21:44:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:44:25 Wtf. 21:44:54 woah... 21:44:55 -!- Judofyr has joined. 21:44:58 i can give you hints, but try for a while first 21:45:00 SimonRC: what 21:45:09 http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/lexical.html#3.8 21:45:11 para 6 21:45:20 oh the opportunities 21:45:25 SimonRC: which one 21:45:29 "Two identifiers are the same only if they are identical, that is, have the same Unicode character for each letter or digit." 21:45:30 that one? 21:45:34 if so that seems reasonable to me 21:45:35 yes 21:45:38 :\ 21:45:51 I am thinking from a malicious PoV 21:45:56 SimonRC: how? 21:46:00 Pov? 21:46:08 suppose you have a variable called é.... 21:46:41 and you have another one that is the same but represented as an e and a combining acute mark... 21:47:02 the Java spec says they must be different variables 21:47:07 so? 21:47:15 the unicode spec says they must look identical 21:47:42 so you have seperate variables that are distinguished solely by something that you aren't supposed to be able to see 21:48:58 COOL 21:49:21 oklopol: i got one hit on him 21:49:22 :\ 21:49:31 just for fun, you can name everything e, with various accents. 21:49:37 but the best bit... 21:49:37 yeah, that's as far as i get too :D 21:49:39 because 21:49:45 oklopol: I fell down a hole he made 21:49:46 :P 21:49:53 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:49:55 the second time really is different, and i have no idea what to do. 21:49:59 is it 21:50:00 looked the same to me 21:50:03 your text editor or other text tools might mangle the one representation into the other. 21:50:13 SimonRC: so? 21:50:42 well, turning two variables into one often affects the running of a program... 21:50:48 SimonRC: And..? 21:51:11 argh 21:51:37 I forgot to give people context beyond "making code hard to maintain" 21:51:39 http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmain.html 21:51:40 there 21:51:59 yes, it's good for making obfuscated code 21:52:01 but not _malicious_ 21:52:15 really? 21:52:26 he doesn't make holes before the first hit 21:52:26 i mean, using my technique 21:52:27 SimonRC: firstly, the user would have to edit the source 21:52:31 !ping 21:52:42 they would also have to use an editor that does that 21:52:43 oklopol: pong 21:52:45 tusho: moves faster the second time 21:52:51 SimonRC: then, they'd have to compile it. 21:52:53 and run it. 21:52:57 without reading what it actually does. 21:53:06 if I found that someone was relying on that bit of the spec in production code I would suspect them of trying to sabotage the company 21:53:06 also, they'd have to not notice that you have two variable declarations for the same char. 21:53:11 also, they'd have to not notice that you have two variable declarations for the same char. 21:53:19 ah, ok 21:53:50 you can hide that 21:53:53 oklopol: wanna try a different route? 21:53:54 with scoping 21:53:56 there are two more 21:53:57 suppose that the chance of a programmer's tools actually turning the one variable into the other are rather slim 21:54:05 one of them is going V down on the first screen 21:54:08 the other is: 21:54:11 go down twice 21:54:14 then, when the spike moves away 21:54:17 jump up again and immediately drop 21:54:20 the spike will go through 21:54:26 and you jump up and walk through the wall 21:54:42 oklopol: yes, if you are saying what I think you are 21:54:46 That website makes me lol. 21:54:52 good 21:55:06 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:55:22 "Buy a copy of a baby naming book and you’ll never be at a loss for variable names. Fred is a wonderful name, and easy to type." 21:55:37 "If you call your variables a, b, c, then it will be impossible to search for instances of them using a simple text editor." 21:55:38 Heh. 21:55:43 I do that all the time. 21:56:00 I don't want people maintaining my code :o 21:56:11 who does 21:57:03 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/TTT3.4.c 21:57:08 Fuck you reader of my code 21:58:32 "In naming functions and variables, make heavy use of abstract words like it, everything, data, handle, stuff, do, routine, perform and the digits e.g. routineX48, PerformDataFunction, DoIt, HandleStuff and do_args_method." 21:58:34 Man 21:58:36 tusho: two hits, and i think i can get infinite hits now 21:58:47 I am so going to do that for my next interpreter 21:59:04 "Real men never define acronyms; they understand them genetically." 21:59:06 :D 21:59:14 oklopol: should I make an awesome game that's just as hard 21:59:17 yes 21:59:19 yes i should 21:59:43 YOU HAVE TO CLICK A PIXEL-WIDE BUTTON IN THE NEXT SECOND 21:59:55 Slereah7: No. :_p 21:59:58 *:-P 21:59:58 OR YOU WILL DIE, AND YOUR SAVES WILL BE ERASED 22:00:15 less incredibly great timing, more fast reacting 22:00:24 oklopol: yes 22:00:36 also 22:00:37 i mean 22:00:38 things that hone into you 22:00:41 like, circle around you 22:00:47 and you have to jump around to confuse them 22:01:23 i like the kind of thing where nothing is especially hard, but you have to keep moving all the time 22:01:33 oklopol: yeah, mine'll be like that 22:01:45 not the kind this one is, that you get rest all the time, but the single tasks are impossible 22:02:37 AIS523 IF YOU ARE LOGREADING 22:02:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff <-- DELETING THIS PAGE IS A TOTALLY SHITTY IDEA. 22:02:54 HE'S INCREDIBLY WELL KNOWN IN THE RUBY COMMUNITY (WHICH HAS LATELY GROWN HUGE). 22:03:02 DON'T BE STUPID AND STOP THEM. K. 22:03:04 END AIS523 NOTE 22:03:17 (Easy ways to get in touch with wikipedia administrators #1, that is) 22:03:24 aaaanyway 22:03:32 oklopol: mine will have music generated to how you're playing 22:03:33 :D 22:05:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:05:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:06:13 oklopol: what did you last hear 22:06:38 -!- Corun has joined. 22:06:48 music generation + smiley 22:06:53 oklopol: that's the last thing then 22:06:54 heh, game crashed :D 22:07:04 just got the second hit 22:07:40 hmm 22:07:44 did i disco again? 22:07:53 oklopol: yeah 22:08:02 tusho: :D 22:08:02 [22:06] oklopol left the chat room. (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22:08:02 [22:06] oklopol joined the chat room. 22:08:39 "chat room"? 22:08:44 "Hungarian Notation is the tactical nuclear weapon of source code obfuscation techniques; use it! " 22:08:45 :D 22:08:45 i meant again again 22:08:54 lament: Colloquy is stupid. 22:09:07 But it handles SILC and some other protocols too, so maybe that's why. 22:09:12 oklopol: ah, then no 22:09:13 anyway 22:09:26 my game will literally randomly generate a soundtrack based on how you're moving 22:09:27 :D 22:10:06 third time, it's even faster 22:10:08 fun! 22:10:28 "If a maintenance programmer can’t quote entire Monty Python movies from memory, he or she has no business being a programmer." 22:10:59 oklopol: PAY ATTENTION TO ME 22:10:59 :( 22:11:24 sorry, playing :) 22:11:42 generating music is a great idea, and you should do it 22:11:48 ...now. 22:12:26 oklopol: AND I WILL! 22:13:23 Slereah7: not much of an AI... 22:13:31 but still neat 22:13:35 SimonRC: ? 22:13:43 his program 22:13:51 wot 22:14:06 oh, wait, not his program 22:14:15 21:57:03 < Slereah7> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/TTT3.4.c 22:14:28 what is it 22:14:39 the ascii codes for the messages are a bit gratuitous though 22:14:43 tusho: read it and find out 22:14:51 SimonRC: moar like: run it 22:15:00 function g() is a big hint 22:15:08 oh wowzers 22:15:13 SimonRC: i don't think Slereah7 wrote that though 22:15:19 if you don't get it after reading g, read h 22:15:23 tusho: no 22:15:47 hah, I just beat the computer. 22:15:47 :P 22:15:54 1 5 9. 22:15:58 SimonRC : The strings would give away the program! 22:16:08 oh so he did write it 22:16:11 Also, I wrote it. 22:16:21 It's just a tic tac toe game 22:16:23 SimonRC: a tic-tac-toe AI is so simple you can just write it as a transition table 22:16:24 :-P 22:16:29 and include it right there in the source 22:16:30 as a string 22:16:37 like 22:16:47 "_____________O____" 22:16:53 is empty board -> put in middle 22:17:18 Although I could have done more obfuscated, I suppose 22:17:18 yay thue 22:17:31 lament: hah, yeah, you could write a tic-tac-toe in thue pretty easily! 22:17:41 Like filling the arrays with any numbers, then do arithmetics on them or whatever 22:17:46 -!- oklofok has joined. 22:17:54 Also, note : there is a goto in there. 22:18:02 People don't use enough goto in C. 22:18:09 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:18:18 yyyeah. 22:18:23 tusho: getting back from the tyson room is harder than tyson. 22:18:30 oklofok: lawl 22:18:32 why 22:18:33 definitely "not enough" is the expression i was thinking of. 22:18:41 lament: it's obfuscated code. 22:19:02 "Document the obvious 22:19:02 : Pepper the code with comments like /* add 1 to i */ however, never document wooly stuff like the overall purpose of the package or method. 22:19:04 Heh 22:19:27 you know what c needs 22:19:29 intra-procedure gotos 22:19:37 x(){A:goto B;}y(){B:goto A;} 22:19:43 especially if they don't actually change the call stack 22:19:44 Awesome 22:19:45 observe 22:20:14 the jump from the save point to the falling piece is next to impossible 22:20:14 x(int i){return i+1;A:return i*2;}y(int j){int i=x(j);goto A;} 22:20:16 :D 22:20:27 which is equiv. to: 22:20:41 y(int i){return (i+1)*2} 22:21:30 I have seen beter than that in Forth... 22:21:53 SimonRC: but it's more fun if you have a regular c program that just goto's to some other procedure 22:21:57 Disparage In the Comments 22:21:58 : Discourage any attempt to use external maintenance contractors by peppering your code with insulting references to other leading software companies, especially anyone who might be contracted to do the work. 22:22:05 I have seen a legitimately-used jump from run-time into compile-time 22:22:38 : foo create ... begin ... does> ... again ... ; 22:22:59 tusho: i stopped, getting a bit late 22:23:07 but you prolly stopped ages ago 22:23:09 it creates words that create words that ... and so on forever 22:29:34 Find a Forth or APL Guru 22:29:34 In those worlds, the terser your code and the more bizarre the way it works, the more you are revered. 22:30:14 well, I am currently doing stuff with colorForth 22:30:24 that really really emphasizes simplicity 22:31:59 In C, the effects of pre/post decrement code such as 22:31:59 *++b ? (*++b + *(b-1)) : 0 22:31:59 are not defined by the language spec. Every compiler is free to evaluate in a different order. This makes them doubly deadly. 22:32:02 Heh. 22:32:37 actually... 22:33:12 suppose a compiler keeps track of what to increment and decrement by setting flags on its data about variables... 22:33:26 a++ + a++ could plausibly just increment a once 22:33:37 SimonRC: in gcc, a++ + a++ DOES only increment once I think 22:33:55 nifty 22:34:19 but then, in old GCCs, any #pragma would cause the compiler to start nethack 22:34:25 i could easily believe an implementation that increments twice. 22:34:38 "Use the fuzziest, vaguest most general terminology you can come up with, especially for variable names. handle is a great example — a handle to what? processData is a great method name. Was there ever a method written that could not be so described? It cleverly hides any clue to what it does behind a cloud of ambiguity." 22:34:43 SimonRC: wrong 22:34:48 it started towers of hanoi in emacs 22:34:56 ah, ok 22:35:13 I recall it had some fallbacks too 22:35:24 maybe 22:35:25 brb 22:35:44 "Leaving bugs in your programs gives the maintenance programmer who comes along later something interesting to do. A well done bug should leave absolutely no clue as to when it was introduced or where. The laziest way to accomplish this is simply never to test your code." 22:35:57 This man was probably not loved much in his company. 22:36:31 really? 22:36:39 but how would people know that the bugs were his? 22:36:48 Who knows! 22:38:32 Computer languages are gradually evolving to become more fool proof. Using state of the art languages is unmanly. Insist on using the oldest language you can get away with, octal machine language if you can (Like Hans und Frans, I am no girlie man; I am so virile I used to code by plugging gold tipped wires into a plugboard of IBM unit record equipment (punch cards), or by poking holes in paper tape with a hand punch), failing t 22:39:21 "Sprinkle your code with bits of inline assembler just for fun. Almost no one understands assembler anymore. Even a few lines of it can stop a maintenance programmer cold." 22:39:26 If only I could program! 22:39:31 I would have so much fun 22:40:04 :D 22:40:11 anyone can program 22:40:38 Yes, but, you know 22:40:41 Program well 22:40:54 I don't know most functions or whatever 22:41:17 "Be never vigilant of the next Y2K. If you ever spot something that could sneak up on a fixed deadline and destroy all life in the western hemisphere then do not openly discuss it until we are under the critical 4 year event window of panic and opportunity." 22:42:02 Slereah7: you don't know most functions? 22:42:07 manuals / make them yourself 22:42:23 "Rest assured that we all see the threat too. Sleep sound at night knowing that long after you’ve been forced into early retirement you will be begged to come back at a logarithmically increased hourly rate!" 22:42:25 i program almost exclusively python, and i haven't read the standard functions lies 22:42:28 *list 22:42:33 I don't just mean that. 22:42:41 How to say this. 22:42:58 Beside computation/output/input, I don't know much. 22:43:19 I'm terrible at file handling, and more complicated things, I do not know 22:43:40 file handling is done like the api tells you to 22:43:49 it's called copy paste 22:44:17 api? 22:44:41 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:49:18 Slereah7: well giyf, but application programming interface 22:50:24 Back. 22:51:47 Is it reasonable to google "api"? 22:52:02 Well, it is apparently 22:52:09 But googling TLA isn't always. 22:52:40 "You don’t need great skill to write unmaintainable code. Just leap in and start coding. Keep in mind that management still measures productivity in lines of code even if you have to delete most of it later." 22:52:44 That's a relief 22:53:20 Slereah7: Google 'python manual' 22:53:22 Read the section on files. 22:53:52 I read sum python manual 22:54:14 But sometimes, I just have no idea what it is talking about. 22:54:30 Slereah7: Then read it again. 22:56:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:57:14 -!- kar8nga has quit ("Leaving."). 22:58:13 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:00:45 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 23:00:48 "There is another way of interpreting this essay, as a terrorist manual." 23:02:06 "There are millions of ways to insidiously corrupt data and program source. America is a sitting duck for a patient terrorist with a small bank account and a copy of this essay." 23:02:09 O noes! 23:04:52 -!- dak has joined. 23:06:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:11:49 -!- Corun has joined. 23:13:43 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:22:55 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 23:29:36 -!- Corun has joined.