< 1210118523 0 :slereah__!n=slerjeah@ANantes-252-1-68-202.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210118781 0 :slereah_!n=slerjeah@ANantes-252-1-33-185.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210118944 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210119383 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210119497 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1210119576 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210120129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1210121017 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-33-185.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210126206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye for today :) < 1210126228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210136060 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210138011 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-193-16.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1210138052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to assume everyone in here was a superstar in any and all computer-related classes? < 1210138083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Firefox-extension < 1210138495 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone? Maybe not. Me? Absolutely. X-P < 1210138541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's not safe to assume that. < 1210138555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be a superstar without having taken computer-related classes of any merit. < 1210138558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1210138699 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo : I do okay, but then again, we do number crunching < 1210138805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does my Database class at SUNY Farmingdale count as having any merit? < 1210138994 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's up to you! < 1210139001 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what's a database. < 1210141114 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1210142248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1210147199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1210147200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1210149656 0 :Iskr!n=i@host136-84-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210150894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. you've talked me off the backlog mirc shows :\ < 1210150906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot can happen during 18 hours of sleep < 1210150938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's pretty safe < 1210150943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to assume that < 1210151506 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210152769 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-193-16.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1210155481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kemuri seems to be a hard way to print stuff. < 1210155510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all interesting < 1210155576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, you did discuss it < 1210155727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"09:07:11 It's hard to find new ideas!" <<< about that unbalanced [] thing, you should look at what i did with nopol, two different nested structures with < and > < 1210155757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i had " " too, it's really just that i did it in a nice way, not that it's actually hard to do < 1210155781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just code an arbitrary number of brackets in "<"+" "*(bracket_id) < 1210156773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy on our chan did do /(pok)+/ at some point, but that never got all that popular < 1210156785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:12:41 pokpokpopokpkopkopokpkopokpokpkopokpokpkopokpkopkopkopokpkopokpkoppokpkopokpokpkpokpokpokpkopko < 1210157575 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Arr." < 1210157881 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1210158596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how sensible a language could be made where there is only one type of nesting, and contents of any nested structure could be shuffled without the semantics of the program changing < 1210158598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1210158599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1210158617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp + role tags < 1210158625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a trivial way < 1210158650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((func #1) (#2 oper) (oper #3)) < 1210160045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: a database is an unordered set of named tables, which are unordered sets of (at least in practise) ordered tuples, where the places of the tuples are named < 1210160174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the database, of course; I would say it's more oftener a multiset instead of a plain old set. < 1210160206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter, is, indeed < 1210160264 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said he, six hours later. < 1210160293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was asleep when you said it < 1210160321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you have to know that much about databases, so i had to tell you < 1210160329 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you've been here for more than two hours D: < 1210160340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i slept for 18 hours, i was here the whole time < 1210160342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210160345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1210160349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what i was doing? < 1210160351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-? < 1210160357 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masturbating? < 1210160365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210160367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess again < 1210160389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setting things on fire? < 1210160391 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masturbating? < 1210160405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully not a combination of those two activities. Ouch. < 1210160420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting closer. < 1210160457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i say "getting warmer", might just be a finnish idiom < 1210160502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct and obvious answer is i was reading the 18 hours logs < 1210160546 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what we're saying that fascinating < 1210160639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting warmer has to do with this game where you are trying to find an object, and the hider tells you "cold"..."hot" at times, according to your position < 1210160641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close = warm < 1210160647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or hot < 1210160679 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists here as well. < 1210160684 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in Amurrica < 1210160734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during the game i was always mostly concerned with how the game could ever be perceived as interesting when you would just slowly approach the object < 1210160744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays i know it actually *isn't* interesting < 1210160769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i wish i'd had cleverer parents, wouldn't have wasted my time with other kids :o < 1210160791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, games kids play make no sense < 1210160883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be illegalized, and kids should be adviced only to play interesting games like... umm... right, there are none < 1210160905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise words i say. to the shop i then go -> < 1210160909 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about tag? < 1210160916 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a TAG SYSTEM :D < 1210161063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag can be interesting in an environment with obstacles, but you won't find many irl... also, even then it would mostly be about memorizing the environment, because that gives you a great advantage, and the algorithmic part comes only after that... the problem is this is automatic learning which doesn't really teach a kid to use their memorization skills < 1210161079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the algorithms are fairly trivial < 1210161090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, it all comes down to being fast. < 1210161122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't care much for physical stuff, except sex, as some might already know < 1210161126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, shop < 1210161127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1210162586 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately, the combinatory expressions for interesting combinations of functions tend to be lengthy and unreadable." < 1210162591 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you McCarthy! < 1210163122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut? < 1210166946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1210172851 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210173032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210173892 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210178309 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-67-219.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210178547 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210178697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: non-automatically-generated hello < 1210178715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello! < 1210178721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been pondering my language < 1210178758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? the interactive fiction language? < 1210179134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1210179146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really an IF language < 1210179149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's modeled around your game < 1210179160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that if it can do something as complex as yours easily, it'll be good for everything else too < 1210179406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i guess what i should do is translate one of your puzzles < 1210179412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not about to read your C code ;) < 1210179419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SMETANA one is probably the easiest to translate < 1210179438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's nothing hidden in the code, that is you can determine how the program is meant to behave from how it has behaved < 1210179449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for bugs, of course < 1210179458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but i'd have to study it < 1210179459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1210179480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you should be able to implement the stairs problem without reference to my code < 1210179483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the data's there < 1210179493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are only two commands on the steps to deal with, plus NOP < 1210179538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plus nop? < 1210179540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you nop on it? < 1210179544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top and bottom steps do nothing < 1210179584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210179616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION studies it from the comfort of his web interface
< 1210179640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, your brainfuck problem might be simpler to do < 1210179640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1210179653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I would have thought it would have been harder < 1210179665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? howso? apart from the 'implementing BF' thing < 1210179670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are all sorts of edge cases like >+[>+] that you have to handle < 1210179680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so just limit the number of steps that a program runs < 1210179690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the halting problem's unsolvable, so the things catch fire if the programs run for too long or too far to the right < 1210179702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shake their heads on erroneous input < 1210180071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1210180075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very hard, really < 1210180085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as much harder than the step problem < 1210180095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is near-trivial to implement < 1210180136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk: statue 1 run < 1210180136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statue 1 output: statue 2 run < 1210180136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptr > X: statue burn < 1210180136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :steps > X: statue burn < 1210180136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statue 1 burn and statue 2 burn: win < 1210180147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210180168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and any error (including ptr < 0, unmatched brackets): statue shakes head < 1210180549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1210180553 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210180556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that seems simpler than the stairs to me < 1210180575 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed much of the conversation, sorry < 1210180579 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection troubles... < 1210180581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1210180582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1210180582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, and any error (including ptr < 0, unmatched brackets): statue shakes head < 1210180582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: ok < 1210180582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523_ (n=ais523@147.188.254.116) has joined #esoteric < 1210180585 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1210180663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the stairs are fully described as: s resets puzzle, u and d increment/decrement step number, while standing on a goto step goto the step mentioned, then swap according to the step you land on < 1210180683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you need to account for infinite loops too, but so does the Brainfuck < 1210180693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be modeled as the right number of 'stair' instances < 1210180697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a counter < 1210180697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1210180726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you need a parser or anything, the data is (in the C program) stored as the number of the step to goto or the numbers of the steps to swap < 1210180730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit i need to come up with syntax ofr events now < 1210180749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have @{} already? < 1210180758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :events are basically that, but not restricted to user input < 1210180821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kind of < 1210180825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of a good way to do it though < 1210180826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1210180829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@{} overrides < 1210180831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :events cascade < 1210181145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210181174 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210181196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry... < 1210181200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed May 7 2008] [17:20:37] damnit i need to come up with syntax ofr events now < 1210181202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed May 7 2008] [17:20:55] don't you have @{} already? < 1210181204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed May 7 2008] [17:21:04] events are basically that, but not restricted to user input < 1210181214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then my connection went down < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: kind of < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't think of a good way to do it though < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and also < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @{} overrides < 1210181227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : events cascade < 1210181252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, all events happen if they have the same trigger < 1210181265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some way to override instead? < 1210181414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, presumably < 1210181420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... events stacking up just seems logical to me < 1210181430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas reactions to user input overriding seems logical too < 1210181442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want something to work in one room you define it in that room < 1210181447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and define the base case in the object < 1210181453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you say 'on X do Y' < 1210181457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to disturb other thing < 1210181551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that intuitive? it is to me < 1210181568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's intuitive < 1210181581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interference with other events is also important < 1210181598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could do it like MediaWiki does, where events can cause future events on the same trigger to not happen if they want to < 1210181614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the events would happen in order from most specific to least specific < 1210181626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1210181628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the regular model < 1210181637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a specific 'halt events' return < 1210181644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard stuff < 1210181658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, really, I do need to get seperate syntax for events < 1210181882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with choosing random syntax like @{...} is that you have to justify it and use it to unif ythe rest. < 1210182412 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host86-148-61-92.range86-148.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210182445 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey all < 1210182452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1210182453 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1210182753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any event syntax ideas? < 1210182776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be some character followed by something in braces that describes the event < 1210182796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining event triggers is the problem < 1210182802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of things should trigger events? < 1210182857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anything < 1210182863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just trigger it < 1210182872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an object < 1210182876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so you have a specific trigger-event command? < 1210182886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more likely syntax, it'll be very common < 1210182891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance, how would you trigger an event on entering a room? < 1210182918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd link the event and a function < 1210182922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably an anonymous one) < 1210182986 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1210183040 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210183056 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210183168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm thinking maybe: < 1210183182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#enter:{|s,e|...} < 1210183185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is the sender < 1210183186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e is the vent < 1210183187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*event < 1210183193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd put that in a room < 1210183200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a class you could do < 1210183214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same < 1210183214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and to trigger: < 1210183232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#event(a,b,c) < 1210183238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, and those get passed additionally < 1210183240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1210183242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could hook into that with < 1210183248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#event:{|s,e,a,b,c|...} < 1210183259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1210183261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be : < 1210183270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's used for object properties < 1210183298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you'd put that in a room"? < 1210183303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, in a room definition < 1210183306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you mean in the room's command list < 1210183314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would trigger the #enter? < 1210183314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210183315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#statue1:talk={|S,E,M| statue2:run(M)} < 1210183318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random example) < 1210183323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the engine would, probably < 1210183327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you have to define it in the room transition commands everywhere? < 1210183327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's an example < 1210183335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would require statue1 to send the 'talk' message like this: < 1210183340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#$:talk("foo") < 1210183366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, events as properties of objects < 1210183388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, i'm just kinda inventing stuff here < 1210183433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooo < 1210183436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonymous events < 1210183454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're going to end up inventing Smalltalk at this rate < 1210183459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#{statue1:burned && statue2:burned}={|S,E,M| } < 1210183462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just program the game in that < 1210183462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quite < 1210183473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am halfway to just making a ruby dsl for the IF stuff < 1210183482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's less fun < 1210183509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then we can't use % as a comment character < 1210183533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you were going to use % as a comment character? < 1210183538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd decided against that < 1210183636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, it's too good to pass up < 1210183646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language is *almost* erlang and prolog < 1210183646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210183682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, the pattern i have in my head for events is signal/slot < 1210183688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt uses it, it's great < 1210183917 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210183917 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032620]" < 1210184010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So! < 1210184037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1210184050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, couldn't resist < 1210184079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1210184506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, were you intending to say something, or were you just doing the IRC version of a KAL? < 1210184884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have no idea < 1210185068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: suggested solution: Diaiwurncuan Sufuahsnf. Our task is to define this concept and how it relates to the IF language < 1210185099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you'll have to port it from the oko < 1210185133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1210185146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> <- ] >< [ - - - < > < < 3 < 1210185149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is the oko form < 1210185163 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RABBIT! < 1210185285 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210185351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : damn you oerjan -- that wiki really is addictive < 1210185365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David-Morgan Mar calls it crack :) < 1210185366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : damn you oerjan -- that wiki really is addictive < 1210185379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can we get a chain going?) < 1210185388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (can we get a chain going?) < 1210185391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (can we get a chain going?) < 1210185392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1210185396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (can we get a chain going?) < 1210185405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMNIT OERJAN < 1210185409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DAMNIT OERJAN < 1210185455 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210185470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is hard < 1210185532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, i have an esoteric idea < 1210185534 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1210185542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what is it? < 1210185559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will I or oerjan be able to name a lang that already does that within a minute? < 1210185562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a webcomic where the script is edited like a wiki, and then at drawing time, the website lets you choose a region of the comic and draw in there < 1210185574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that is pretty new < 1210185578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the end thing is a really, really warped version of the wiki-edited script < 1210185582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although arguably Mandatory Fun Day was getting like that < 1210185587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1210185608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm isn < 1210185611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the background was the same for MFD < 1210185615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia used to do similar things with stories as part of a sandbox game < 1210185620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be 100% custom, except maybe with the panels in place < 1210185627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the sandbox games got purged a while ago, at least the ones which had died < 1210185628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would require no running, really < 1210185631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t there a page for doing that with Dinosaur Comics? < 1210185642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really < 1210185648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying that the WHOLE THING would be done collaboratively < 1210185655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dividing the comment into small blocks which can be claimed and worked on < 1210185658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comic < 1210185667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it all fits together, but in a picasso kind of way < 1210185690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:41:09] ais523: a webcomic where the script is edited like a wiki, and then at drawing time, the website lets you choose a region of the comic and draw in there < 1210185695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:42:18] 't there a page for doing that with Dinosaur Comics? < 1210185701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was more than a minute < 1210185708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it wasn't even true < 1210185720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea is, afaik, unique < 1210185754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just because i've seen people making parodies of DC which resemble that < 1210185826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just trying to think of things that resembled it on the few webcomics i have noticed < 1210185872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM has Infinity on 30 Credits which is supposed to be cooperative, and also a randomizer (but no added text) for his own Irregular Webcomic < 1210185887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: infinity on 30 credits let people do their own comics < 1210185892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine wouldn't even have one-panel-per-person < 1210185900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be divided into small bits which could be painted on < 1210185906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even one panel would be patchwork < 1210185923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen cooperative painting games where each person had a colour of pixel < 1210185936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could set pixels to your own colour, and that was that < 1210185945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people could then change them to eir colour < 1210185956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all changes were mutable < 1210185957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a bit more extreme < 1210185962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar to my idea < 1210185971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, especially as there was no plan for what the final outcome would look like < 1210185975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen any get very far, though < 1210185986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should check back some time to see what the results were like < 1210185996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be a voting scheme < 1210185999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that the people had to take it in turns to set pixels in the implementation I saw < 1210186014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a silly idea, but they were trying to embed it inside a computer game so they had no other option < 1210186108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1210186113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you work on a block < 1210186116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people vote for it < 1210186123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the highest voting ones get put together < 1210186131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the collaborative-script would define each panel < 1210186140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be quite specific - like 'foo to the left', 'bar to the right' < 1210186148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it will all fit together, and maliciousness can just be voted out < 1210186160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a patchwork, surrealist comic with a crazy plot < 1210186162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any work! < 1210186168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from implementing it...) < 1210186302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternative idea - make each pixel RGB the median of the suggestions for it < 1210186335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's better than choosing the mean, but it's still unlikely to come up with a coherent outcome < 1210186370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is right < 1210186376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone was hoping for coherence? :D < 1210186378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people will draw thigns in slightly different places < 1210186381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in slightly different ways < 1210186394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you look at the comic as it is now before starting and read the plot a lot, then yes, it could come out pretty coherent < 1210186400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with voting < 1210186466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: worth implementing? < 1210186509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps a version control system < 1210186569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is down? < 1210186578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidentl < 1210186579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+y < 1210186589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/rustik2/cnnsucks.jpg < 1210186608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thewritingpot.com/wikistatus/ says it's down with a locked database < 1210186621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives a reason too < 1210186630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: o_O < 1210186643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that genuine? < 1210186653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Brion's website confirms it < 1210186658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wikitech.leuksman.com/view/Server_admin_log < 1210186671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, thewritingpot.com isn't quite official < 1210186679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many experienced Wikipedians know of it < 1210186686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's updated wiki-style when there's a problem < 1210186737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't a vandal screw around with it? < 1210186749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#wikipedia tells me that the wiki's mostly up, just one of the servers got the bad change < 1210186766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but its recent changes are logged, and they'd likely be reverted back round < 1210186770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hasn't been a problem so far < 1210186885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't a vandal screw around with it? < 1210186892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take a bad question about wikipedia < 1210186899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and change it into a bad question about a wikipedia status monitor < 1210186904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizzare < 1210187199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and about the wiki-outage, I just got the following message on the Wikimedia developers mailing list (which I'm subscribed to, although I'm not a developer): "This breaks the site. Overloads the central DB. Reverted." < 1210187219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was by Brion Vibber, the release manager < 1210187225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we know what the problem was now < 1210187243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was reverted, exactly/ < 1210187255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the change that the message reverted to < 1210187272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the problem causing change? < 1210187273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/reverted/refered/ < 1210187275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r34358 < 1210187280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'll look up if you like < 1210187300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is I normally go to them via Wikipedia, and as it's down, I'll have to remember the URL < 1210187328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was this change: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=34358 < 1210187725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that it's even possible to break it like that ;) < 1210187773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was a pretty big change < 1210187784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and referring to non-existent DB tables will cause all sorts of errors < 1210187833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is wikipedia running svn HEAD automatically? < 1210187836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without testing? < 1210187842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it doesn't run svn HEAD < 1210187855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's synched with it pretty often, though, about once a week and sometimes faster < 1210187870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the devs think something is potentially problematic they test it on test.wikipedia.org < 1210187898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the bug was in part of the code that's designed to be shared across all Wikimedia sites, it's in the shared authorisation stuff < 1210187908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then why wasn't it tested < 1210187920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably it was but the bug didn't show up in testing < 1210187955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brion said it overloaded the database; something stupid like checking a nonexistent table on every pageview maybe wouldn't show up in testing but would completely hammer the database in production < 1210188003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so they should stress-test < 1210188027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, this sort of thing doesn't happen very often < 1210188045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wikipedia should use mediawiki to manage it < 1210188047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and push it in REAL TIME < 1210188063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course then you can disable the revert function so you can't revert the removal of the revert button < 1210188064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a programming language where you can edit running programs < 1210188067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: infinite regress wikimedia < 1210188069 0 :helios24!n=helios@Lfa57.l.pppool.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210188070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mediawiki < 1210188070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be useful for lots of thing < 1210188073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/s/ < 1210188095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikpedia's back up now, anyway < 1210188108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ it is called Smalltalk, iiuc < 1210188125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can do that in Smalltalk? < 1210188130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1210188131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Lisp too i guess < 1210188159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210188162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called smalltalk < 1210188165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to a lesser extent lisp < 1210188167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: smalltalk has no programs < 1210188175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bunch of classes < 1210188176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a heap of objects < 1210188191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might, say, tell it to evaluate 'WebServer startOn: 8080' < 1210188194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to write a loop, and edit code inside the loop while the loop is running? < 1210188197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of actually running anything < 1210188199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no < 1210188207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can change a method that runs a loop < 1210188212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it immediately propagate along the system < 1210188216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any future call will use the new definition < 1210188219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without anything extra done < 1210188256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the point is that most of the time a Smalltalk 'program' isn't running < 1210188263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it responds to external messages < 1210188277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you wrote an OS kernel in Smalltalk, could you hotpatch it? < 1210188330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang also is good for runtime patching but maybe not as directly (?) < 1210188342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you wrote an OS kernel in Smalltalk, could you hotpatch it? < 1210188342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1210188346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just edit the method < 1210188349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and voila, all future calls call it < 1210188354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd need to compile the kernel < 1210188362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's pretend that bootstrapping is magical < 1210189321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's pretend that magic is magical < 1210189368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes < 1210190067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So! < 1210190107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: KAL < 1210190115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LAK < 1210190142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KALs are things sent down Internet connections for no other purpose than to prevent the connection ending, I think < 1210190151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like pongs, but without a corresponding ping < 1210190341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know what would be cool? < 1210190346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1210190346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wiki which runs programs to generate its pages < 1210190359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like MediaWiki special pages? < 1210190475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1210190646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any perlnomic ideas? < 1210190650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210190657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this urge to grab some random perl webapp < 1210190660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run it through my package creator < 1210190672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be really useful would be a generic way for CGI scripts to store data persistently < 1210190674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't a pain to use < 1210190690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Reinventing the square wheel for fun and economic ruin | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric < 1210190692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can do that < 1210190703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also i will make a unified login/logout interface < 1210190707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a header/footer < 1210190709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't think "profit" sounded quite right
< 1210190735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should i bite comex or jay < 1210190741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR YOU < 1210190750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can't bite me, you aren't looking at me < 1210190761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i can fix that < 1210190765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for comex or jay, comex doesn't have a whole lot of points right now < 1210190773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bite and move timers are the same timer < 1210190777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210190785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you turn to look at me, then I'll run away < 1210190786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You bit jay for 3 points. You notice red aura blinking around you. < 1210190789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough < 1210190860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, would you vote for a unified login/logout system < 1210190869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if implemented properly < 1210190877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1210190878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser_sgeoster < 1210190881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo wants in on ecmanomic < 1210190889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecmanomic? < 1210190895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a JS version of PerlNomic? < 1210190896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://ecmanomic.org/ < 1210190898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perlnomic for JS < 1210190934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that as bad as if i wanted in on PerlNomic? < 1210190950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you even know any js? < 1210190959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yesish < 1210190966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some stuff in YouOS a while ago < 1210190990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the fact that users seem to be identified by password though.. < 1210190990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh, ecmanomic is really hard to read < 1210191037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they're not? < 1210191039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for bonus points, get PerlNomic to use public-key authentication, at least as an alternative to crypted passwords if not a replacement < 1210191053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sha512^100+salt < 1210191097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is the username stored in a cookie? < 1210191121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What? < 1210191126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made my adduser, and I put in my password < 1210191127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ECMAnomic < 1210191129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it anywhere. < 1210191146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, refresh, and you'll see the adduser < 1210191156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1210191159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean my password. < 1210191171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set functionName to vote. Notice how it doesn't ask you for Username < 1210191194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in a junk password. See the errormessage < 1210191223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so? < 1210191228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wanna start my own codenomic. < 1210191231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Language suggestions? < 1210191246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Smalltalk < 1210191250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each player is basically identified by password < 1210191261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It would be nice, but hooking it into Squeak safely etc would be a pain < 1210191269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not gonna give unrestricted access :-) < 1210191272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems the obvious choice the way the conversation's been going over the last two days or so < 1210191280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: chroot it? < 1210191288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess so... < 1210191303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But smalltalk has a very closed-world view. < 1210191306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno -- I'll consider it < 1210191369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For the moment, any other ideas? < 1210191382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sane ones, really < 1210191391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Ruby, if there isn't one yet < 1210191400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is a ruby one but it's dead < 1210191403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll consider it < 1210191409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but none that you know? :P < 1210191410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think yours won't be dead? < 1210191414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can you revive it? < 1210191425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's dead as in not online any more < 1210191433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for ACTIVITY, who cares? < 1210191482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210191560 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210191575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X just died for no obvious reason < 1210191588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe an esolang? < 1210191593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't do a C-M-backspace? < 1210191604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1210191608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: INTERCAL would likely work best out of the ones I know, except it's lousy at string-handling < 1210191628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with an esolang nomic is nobody would want to read the code < 1210191650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with an INTERCAL nomic, you could have all proposals appending to the end of the code < 1210191660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using COME FROM and suchlike to modify what had gone before < 1210191735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why aren't there any /easy/ esolangs < 1210191786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, unless you count Easy, it's because some sorts of esolangs (like tarpits) can't be easy pretty much by definition, and ones which would be easy to program in are a pain to implement < 1210191801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1210191828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Cyclexa and many-tiered Underlambda would be easy to program in, but the implementation efforts keep getting stuck < 1210191841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about GolfScript and similar esolangs? < 1210191852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not all that difficult by esolang standards < 1210191856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can be a pain to read < 1210191925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: golfscript sounds interesting < 1210191932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, want help implementing underlambda? < 1210191937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to < 1210191938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a FlogScript on esolangs.org that seems based on it < 1210191946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and help implementing underlambda would be fine < 1210191950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as would help speccing it out < 1210191954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems to be yshl's < 1210191959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of anagolf < 1210191972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of know what I want, but it's hard to put it in writing < 1210191980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, flogscript is a bit too hard to read < 1210191991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gawd, flogscript isn't yshl's < 1210191993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's zzo38s < 1210192008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of zzo38's langs are pretty good, though < 1210192025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, he just has a ton of crackpot stuff on his blog :-) < 1210192027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btu anyway < 1210192030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to embed brainfuck < 1210192033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a dumb idea, imo < 1210192037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reading src) < 1210192046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, Underlambda embeds brainfuck < 1210192052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for useful purposes < 1210192067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< and > implement access to a secondary stack, something that would help a lot in Underload < 1210192074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. and , are nice I/O < 1210192094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] form a simple imperative looping construct, which is sometimes nicer than the functional or concatenative versions < 1210192103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and + and - are nice increment/decrement shortcuts < 1210192116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all 8 commands are useful, and I may as well give them the names they have in BF < 1210192141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1210192342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm hacking out a little smallnomic < 1210192345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Seaside < 1210192372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what level does it self-modify at? The entire code for the site? < 1210192385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the smalltalk classes < 1210192398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really just a smalltalk class browser at its heart ;) < 1210192404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with '[edit this]' and all that < 1210192408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is - it WILL be < 1210192416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all of Seaside is done within smalltalk < 1210192418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no files involved < 1210192444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a heretical framework - continuation-based, stateful, html is generated programmatically and not by a template, etc < 1210192447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it'll fit great for this < 1210192457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can write a program with callbacks on links, and say 'go to page a, then b' < 1210192457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1210192466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it leads to slightly ugly urls though < 1210192478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'heretical''s an interesting name for it < 1210192479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1210192480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://localhost:8080/seaside/nomic?_k=zbHRaYHq&_c < 1210192484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_k is the continuation id there < 1210192489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION almost clicked on that link
< 1210192494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have meaningful urls, but you have to do it manually < 1210192502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then a nomic doesn't need bookmarking all the time, does it < 1210192505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few parts < 1210192512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's described as heretical by its author < 1210192528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only really need a static URL at the entry point < 1210192562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1210192566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like editing specific classes < 1210192576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e.g. a map, or moving, or biting ... none of those need persistent urls < 1210192584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nomic?_k=zbHRaYHq&_c is a fine url for them < 1210192584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to have a rollback feature like perlnomic does? < 1210192587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. cause of the programming benefits < 1210192593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, i don't know.. < 1210192594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i? < 1210192597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds difficult < 1210192600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nobody does anything for three days, anybody can undo the last proposal without authenticating < 1210192614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, that'll be easy < 1210192617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as one line of protection against accidental massive breakage < 1210192620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to store every proposal, forever. < 1210192630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I should do anyway. < 1210192637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine'll even have a wiki-style 'class history' < 1210192640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be still better, actually, use it as a rollforwards rather than a rollback < 1210192661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: using squeak is bizzare < 1210192664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's its own windowing system < 1210192669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and font renderer, etc < 1210192673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even mouse interaction < 1210192704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, how easy would it be for you to host a pushable-by-me darcs repo for C-INTERCAL? < 1210192709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso-std.org seems like a good place for it < 1210192730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started using darcs versioning, and I think I'm getting the hang of it < 1210192748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BTW, how easy would it be for you to host a pushable-by-me darcs repo for C-INTERCAL? <-- very easy < 1210192759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even do it *right now* < 1210192761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about pushable-by-me, pullable-by-world < 1210192767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just as easy < 1210192783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll install a temp httpd. < 1210192794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how persistent will the site be? < 1210192798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All you have to do is 'darcs push elliotthird.org://var/www/darcs/c-intercal' < 1210192805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and persistent, if I need to wipe, I'll back it up < 1210192812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210192812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides -- it doesn't need to be that persistent, you can always just repush < 1210192815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will back up < 1210192820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will the same ssh ⁎⁡*⁕⁑⁢⁂⁎ still work, or did you wipe it? < 1210192825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's wiped < 1210192837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you the password 'YesIJustSaidThisOverIRC' < 1210192842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun racing to change it < 1210192842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1210192872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: done < 1210192912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1210192914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for me to install nginx < 1210192916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁎⁡*⁕⁑⁢⁂⁎ changed < 1210192933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, smallnomic will not work on IE < 1210192936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any complaints? ;) < 1210192942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210192946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what goes wrong, BTW? < 1210192972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm going to use :after for the seperators on the menu < 1210192974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it'll work < 1210192977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just look odd :P < 1210192995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that < 1210193177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've set up public-key authentication to your server < 1210193186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's nice? < 1210193187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my public key's in my home dir over on elliotthird.org < 1210193194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how did you do that? < 1210193196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it means I don't need to know my ⁎⁡*⁕⁑⁢⁂⁎ over there < 1210193200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, does ssh already have it unabled < 1210193202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ssh-keygen a key < 1210193203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enabled < 1210193204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1210193207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, fine, sure < 1210193208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, wait < 1210193210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then copy the public key to the right place < 1210193227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for what, nginx, or something else? < 1210193292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, about to add you to www-data < 1210193298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er how do i add a user to a group < 1210193316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser user group < 1210193337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an existing user? < 1210193340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210193345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two args adds an existing user < 1210193348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one arg creates a user < 1210193378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO at existance of MX records for tt < 1210193398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay < 1210193399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd /var/www < 1210193401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir darcs < 1210193405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir darcs/c-intercal < 1210193442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I have to log out and back in again < 1210193455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been added to www-data, but my instance of bash wasn't < 1210193456 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-033-052.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210193498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: still can't do it, /var/www is 755 not 775 < 1210193515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are in www-data. < 1210193532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but group can't write to the directory < 1210193540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's read-write-exec for user, but read-exec for group < 1210193545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210193558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fix'd < 1210193596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, dirs made < 1210193605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all that's needed is a darcs push to the right location, presumably < 1210193612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, just: < 1210193618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'darcs push elliotthird.org://var/www/darcs/c-intercal' < 1210193621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just 'darcs push' after that < 1210193682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the pull url < 1210193683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is http://elliotthird.org/darcs/c-intercal/ < 1210193689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people can get it by 'darcs get http://elliotthird.org/darcs/c-intercal/' < 1210193698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can s/elliotthird.org/eso-std < 1210193712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/rustik2/cnnsucks.jpg <<< i saw this like 7 years ago, it's older than Sgeo. < 1210193714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use eso-std for the time being < 1210193718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 15 < 1210193737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'i saw this like 7 years ago, it's older than Sgeo.' < 1210193740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is 19
< 1210193740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best thing ever said < 1210193755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lies < 1210193776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems I can't push to a nonexistent repo < 1210193780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1210193782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'darcs init' < 1210193783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it needs initialising first? < 1210193784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the right dir < 1210193785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remotely < 1210193807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think the name "Sgeo" might be around 7 years old, actually. I'm 19 though < 1210193810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it's one slash not two after the colon in the push command < 1210193811 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210193816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it? < 1210193819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it's two < 1210193829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two it interprets eso-std:// as the protocol < 1210193846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210193851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bash: darcs: command not found < 1210193864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oops < 1210193877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just give you root :P < 1210194077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way < 1210194078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs is there now < 1210194110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ais523: Language suggestions? <<< nomictalk < 1210194115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heh < 1210194253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal redirects me to localhost for some reason < 1210194262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus shows no useful data < 1210194265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1210194266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does < 1210194312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i can either make all of elliotthird.org redir to eso-std < 1210194314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way around. < 1210194338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't using elliotthird.org for anything right now, redirect to eso-std < 1210194343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise redirect in the other direction < 1210194377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay it is fixed < 1210194381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your browser still remembers the redir < 1210194382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so kill it < 1210194427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I get a blank repo, pushing now < 1210194462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wtf? didn't you say you were 15? < 1210194483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some years ago.. < 1210194487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8| < 1210194493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to do some logreading
< 1210194506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did it push? < 1210194512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still pushing < 1210194516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking remarkably long about it < 1210194538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's created the lockfile on your server, but then seems to have done nothing after that < 1210194547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darcs is slow < 1210194557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several minutes slow? < 1210194574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Reinventing the square wheel - ??? - Profit | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric < 1210194577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep < 1210194600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and sleeping and not using any CPU < 1210194610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, processes are either IO-bound or CPU-bound < 1210194614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but darcs seems to be neither < 1210194623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ctrl-C, Up, Enter. < 1210194635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other language suggestions by the way? I just realised how big a proposition writing a smalltalk browser is ;P < 1210194652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda < 1210194655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have continuations < 1210194657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know that log where Sgeo says his age? i want to see proof he didn't age 5 years in a few months. < 1210194661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that was a joke < 1210194667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 4 < 1210194678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might do it in underlambda, if we collab on an impl < 1210194678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if anyone could get 19-15 right < 1210194692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may as well collab on an impl right < 1210194708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET (19-15)=5 < 1210194750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does someone have an easy way to grep the whole tunes logs? < 1210194754 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: people don't age 4 years in a few months. Q.E.D. < 1210194757 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210194771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : may as well collab on an impl right < 1210194776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines with Sgeo saying 15 or 19 < 1210194777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizzarest thing ais523 has ever said < 1210194781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't there used to be a link to searchable logs? < 1210194783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: download them all < 1210194786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and grep < 1210194790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they can't acutally search < 1210194790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how? < 1210194798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a wget script < 1210194798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was trying to reply to both yours and oklopols comments at the same time, and got confused < 1210194799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm tired < 1210194800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, set it to mirror < 1210194805 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps Sgeo for using the past past tense
< 1210194817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION keeps logs..
< 1210194819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Editing component: SNHome" yay < 1210194819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not past tense < 1210194821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SN = SmallNomic) < 1210194822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pasted tense. < 1210194826 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that. < 1210194830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not past past tense < 1210194836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it helps that smalltalk is introspective as all hell < 1210194852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone search the log for me :P) < 1210194854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ofc, greppping for #esoteric logs only might be a bit tricky < 1210194855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just opened up the Class class :D < 1210194862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: err no < 1210194866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download all the #esoteric logs < 1210194868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then grep them < 1210194870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only takes 5 minutes < 1210194873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my birthday was May 1st, so searching for 18 might be better than 19 < 1210194893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wanna do it? i'm on windows < 1210194900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL PAY LOTS. < 1210194904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND LOTS. < 1210194935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heh < 1210194966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you know a simple way to do it on win, do tell me, i'd prolly make a python script, but that would be a waste of 10 minutes < 1210194989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the realoaded darcs push is still going, by the way < 1210194993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a// < 1210195048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch to git < 1210195048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210195068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's no help < 1210195127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is there a windows version of wget, or of curl? < 1210195131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ought to be by now < 1210195136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it like one wget and grep on linux? < 1210195140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cygwin port, at least < 1210195143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just please do it so i can be in peace.. < 1210195144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1210195158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at peace < 1210195158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how to set it up properly < 1210195166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think there is for wget. If I knew what curl was, I might be able to say something < 1210195187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wget#External_links < 1210195189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what ehird recommended to me to make a rule-resubmit bot for IRCnomic < 1210195193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: --mirror < 1210195194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/ < 1210195195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wget < 1210195254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget -i looks like it would do what you need < 1210195285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you turn the list of logs into a list of files readable by that.. < 1210195288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, underlambda < 1210195293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 1. pick a language ;) < 1210195300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just recursive 1 level deep? < 1210195335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's an interesting choice < 1210195340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed to be implementable in anything < 1210195372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's optimize for speed, because we'll never get it < 1210195411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what you really need in Underlambda is serialisable first-class functions < 1210195428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with access to the call stack < 1210195458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, we'll be rolling our own then. < 1210195473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes ais523 or oklopol or whoever was asking me
< 1210195532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not sure < 1210195538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 level deep would be fine for the tunes.org logs < 1210195549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use --mirror < 1210195550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1210195552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done it before < 1210195640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shall we go for C? < 1210195642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be hideously ugly < 1210195645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1210195653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and maybe fast) < 1210195654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with the access-to-callstack stuff < 1210195665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does the callstack serialization need to be cross-platform? < 1210195676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210195681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only needs to be per-executable < 1210195692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can vary from recompile to recompile if needed the way I've specced it out < 1210195696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but having it cross-platform would be nice < 1210195706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda is an obvious lang to serialise into, but not the only choice < 1210195719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think if we go to C, we should roll our own callstack. < 1210195722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210195728 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210195733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since with cross-platform continuations, we could change everything magically into smalltalk. < 1210195746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then how do FFIs work? < 1210195754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it works if the C function you go into doesn't call into Underlambda < 1210195759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do that, then our callstack becomes wrong < 1210195760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really easy to do roll-your-own callstack, actually, just by appending the rest of the program to the end of what you call < 1210195765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any continuation isn't a real continuation < 1210195772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think about FFIs < 1210195786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to see how you could continuationise another lang that you know nothing about, though, anyway < 1210195798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind too much if continuations and FFIs don't mix, they don't in INTERCAL for instance < 1210195802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you do the callstack then you're mostly fine < 1210195805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one way < 1210195808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to switch to CPS < 1210195813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and provide a wrapper for regular functions < 1210195816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you want to call into underlambda again < 1210195818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write in CPS < 1210195825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you just want to call into a random C lib < 1210195831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it just uses the wrapper function < 1210195833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPS might make sense < 1210195836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which just does k(func(...)), basically) < 1210195841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that CPS is fugly without closures < 1210195843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean fugly < 1210195849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the s/// version of the compiler is pretty much CPS < 1210195858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it isn't full CPS < 1210195860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1210195865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it passes the program context around, but not the data stack < 1210195869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a sort of cut-down CPS < 1210195873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a setjmpPS, in a way < 1210195880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, CPS would let us support any kind of windy callstack. < 1210195886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But make the code inscrutable. < 1210195897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Serializing the call-stack isn't portable, etc. < 1210195907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rolling our own won't let us do arbitary call stacks < 1210196024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use naive call-stack concatenation? < 1210196035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does tail-recursion automatically without extra effort < 1210196047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively, you remove the ^ from the program and add TOS in its place < 1210196084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't wanna go a rewriting way < 1210196091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even want to - holy crap - parse it < 1210196092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, heretical < 1210196093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be rewriting < 1210196096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be parsed < 1210196107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1210196107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1210196108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still :P < 1210196112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the naive method kinda sucks. < 1210196114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably, in C, you implement functions as a linked list of fundamental functions < 1210196114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion! < 1210196129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have an idea < 1210196133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just create a repo :p < 1210196143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, darn, perl has a consistent style, but not C < 1210196146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we have to argue again < 1210196154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the darcs push still hasn't finished < 1210196162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to assume that it won't ever, and kill it < 1210196182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IT WILL NEVER FINISH < 1210196184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun < 1210196193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have any darcs revisions already there? < 1210196197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have you just put it in darcs? < 1210196203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no revisions there yet < 1210196208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the init < 1210196212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try using send/apply < 1210196215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on your local copy? < 1210196219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send/apply won't work properly < 1210196224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean < 1210196226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send on local, apply on foreign < 1210196227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is locally, do yuo have any revisions < 1210196231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, lots locally < 1210196232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have you just imported it < 1210196233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210196235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 of them in fact < 1210196244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise a change to git would take 3 minutes < 1210196247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it'll take 7 ;) < 1210196341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's the syntax for scp? < 1210196352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I remembered, but I seem to be wrong < 1210196363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scping the repo won't work realiably < 1210196368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really you want to get push working < 1210196371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm not scping the repo < 1210196375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scping a sendbundle < 1210196422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also won't work properly < 1210196426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repos won't be equivilent < 1210196428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1210196446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, but i'm pretty sure that it's true < 1210196464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the problem isn't with darcs, but with the network connection < 1210196474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on my end or yours < 1210196478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sendbundle.darcs 75% 2208KB 12.5KB/s - stalled - < 1210196482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure whose end the problem's on yet < 1210196482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210196486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just keep trying to push < 1210196490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's your end < 1210196492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my vps is fine < 1210196527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, scheme would work < 1210196531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1210196532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1210196533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just do C < 1210196538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, time for a stylistic argument < 1210196554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, in terms of indentation style, or something more major than that? < 1210196560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mainly the first < 1210196574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me get some controversy going < 1210196582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type func(type foo, type bar, type baz) < 1210196582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1210196583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bbiab kernel upgrade" < 1210196584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int foo; < 1210196585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, in that case, 1 space, GNU-style (so half a space before braces), but with 3 spaces before case labels < 1210196587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return BLAH; < 1210196590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (x) { < 1210196592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1210196594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1210196594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1210196601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how many spaces indentation is that? < 1210196603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i hate gnu style so much < 1210196603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 < 1210196609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was joking < 1210196613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1210196617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can never be sure with you < 1210196628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate GNU-style too, and half-space indentation is silly < 1210196636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in an ideal world < 1210196639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use hard-tabs < 1210196644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people could choose how many spaces they wanted < 1210196646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, my typical style is two-space indentation, { is on a separate line from the if (x) < 1210196651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise the same as you < 1210196652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but editors interpreted it as '8 spaces' < 1210196656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just WRONG < 1210196659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now we can't use them < 1210196662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that assumption spread < 1210196663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yayyy < 1210196733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ignore that rant < 1210196738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and < 1210196744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case labels should be on the same column as the switch < 1210196748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches ais523 shoot him
< 1210196767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I put case labels there too < 1210196776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoots ais523 for completeness
< 1210196935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's how to coerce emacs to do your bidding < 1210196942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add-hook 'c-mode-hook (lambda () < 1210196942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (c-set-style "linux") < 1210196942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (setq c-basic-offset 4))) < 1210196957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I use c-set-style "bsd" with a c-basic-offset of 2 < 1210196963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between "linux" and "bsd"? < 1210196978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bsd indents extra function parameters differently i think < 1210196978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me test < 1210197038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, no difference as far as I can tell < 1210197041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's use BSD, both of us < 1210197051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may as well, if the styles are identical < 1210197059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can change c-mode's settings for a specific dir < 1210197067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's probably to do with where the brace after the if() { is < 1210197071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210197077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Emacs doesn't move that from where the user puts it < 1210197080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION consults pikiwedia
< 1210197087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ever tried electric mode? < 1210197088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a newline in between the if() and the { < 1210197092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I normally use it < 1210197104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I manually type newlines before a { < 1210197177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the darcs push, or any large copy over ssh, doesn't seem to work properly from here < 1210197194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the University network I'm on thinks I'm filesharing and is throttling it... < 1210197216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, should we use git for underlambda < 1210197249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe it's better to decide on the version control system /after/ we have some code... < 1210197259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i always like getting a copy out first < 1210197261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't have much of an issue with using gitorious or somewhere like that < 1210197306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com (91.189.88.31)] < 1210197308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always lags < 1210197309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ages < 1210197312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on elliotthird.org) < 1210197459 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1210197551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see what happens if I push to elliotthird.org instead < 1210197591 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1210197625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no better < 1210197667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1210197669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just installed git < 1210197670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not there < 1210197679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you install the right git? < 1210197685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. oh crap < 1210197687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you warned me that 'git' was the wrong package on ubunutu < 1210197692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1210197693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1210197965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I want to install something and I know the name of the command, < 1210197973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I which the command to make sure I don't have it already < 1210197983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then try to run the command and let command-not-found tell me which package it's in < 1210198176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh just gonna use gitorious < 1210198178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handles all this for me < 1210198362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git clone git@gitorious.org:underlambda/mainline.git < 1210198374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1210198374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1210198428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210198430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now you cna < 1210198483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initialized empty Git repository in /home/ais523/esoteric/udld/mainline/.git/ < 1210198483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Access denied or bad repository path < 1210198483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly < 1210198493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh of course < 1210198496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1210198497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :udld? < 1210198499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's underload < 1210198508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git clone git://gitorious.org/underlambda/mainline.git < 1210198511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git remote add origin git@gitorious.org:underlambda/mainline.git < 1210198517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use .udl for Underlambda, .ul for Underload < 1210198522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tab completion works well < 1210198526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1210198535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest retconning underload into .uel < 1210198539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: Not a git repository at /usr/share/perl5/Git.pm line 197. < 1210198539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that .ul can be used for underlambda < 1210198543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is arguably far superior ;) < 1210198545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use .unl for underlambda < 1210198553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it deserves the 2-char < 1210198558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, git --version < 1210198569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git version 1.5.4.3 < 1210198578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210198580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be fine... < 1210198584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste your session < 1210198631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do < 1210198662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1011107 < 1210198722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210198722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare < 1210198724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ git clone git@gitorious.org:underlambda/mainline.git < 1210198726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ git clone git://gitorious.org/underlambda/mainline.git < 1210198736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I copy/pasted! < 1210198739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen? < 1210198747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one should I use, anyway? < 1210198748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because x11 has two clipboards < 1210198751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selection (pasted with middle-click) < 1210198756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copied (depends onthe app) < 1210198762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, but it was a middle-click paste both times, I think < 1210198767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one should I use, anyway? < 1210198775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the selection clipboard is retarded < 1210198778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too easy to override < 1210198780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very fiddly < 1210198788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the keybindings for the real one < 1210198791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use it for quick select-pastes, usually < 1210198792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are inconsistent between apps < 1210198796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't even think xterm supports it < 1210198805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x comes on top again -- cmd-{c,x,v} < 1210198810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't interfere with ^C < 1210198812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because cmd != ctrl < 1210198814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: gnome-terminal does, it's C-S-c for copy, C-S-v for paste < 1210198816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is how windows is broken) < 1210198829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Linux ought to use super more < 1210198844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use it to zoom into windows using Compiz, which is actually useful on occasion, but not much else < 1210198907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: os x has a global zoom < 1210198915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something + mouse wheel < 1210198916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1210198923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, super + mouse wheel over here < 1210198923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but even better - it has a keybinding to invert the whole screen < 1210198926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a godsend < 1210198934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and makes tons of images look very, very creepy) < 1210198936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably one over here too, I'll check < 1210198949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compiz doesn't count, they just took os x and ripped it off wholesale, badly :p < 1210198974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-N to invert the window, s-M to invert the screen < 1210198989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, they ripped off OSX wholesale, but pretty well < 1210199024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well != just as good < 1210199098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So I am about to create the first file. < 1210199100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting, I know. < 1210199127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and, MIT license. < 1210199145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1210199228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just pushe < 1210199229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1210199269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I pull? < 1210199280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or init, for that matter? < 1210199292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ummm < 1210199296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not have the repo yet? < 1210199299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ git clone git://gitorious.org/underlambda/mainline.git < 1210199300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1210199305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ git remote add origin git@gitorious.org:underlambda/mainline.git < 1210199334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first command worked, second didn't < 1210199343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither with @ nor :// < 1210199351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the second has to < 1210199354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's juts adding a remote < 1210199357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing can fail < 1210199361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210199364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need to do it in the repo < 1210199400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it works now < 1210199417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, first things first - header file < 1210199420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we'll need multiple < 1210199437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do your include guards, out of curiosity? < 1210199439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do _HEADER_H_ < 1210199448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I normally don't do include guards < 1210199456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's suicidla < 1210199458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suicidal < 1210199459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they shouldn't be necessary in well-written programs < 1210199464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they should < 1210199468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers are free to include others to use their types < 1210199472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's an implementation detail < 1210199478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things using those headers shouldn't need to know that < 1210199479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, generally my headers work when included multiple times anyway < 1210199486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then know not to include that header again) < 1210199498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're just #defines and prototypes, there isn't a problem < 1210199517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, the parse tree can be a data type can't it < 1210199519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in underlambda < 1210199527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? < 1210199531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1210199540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shall we implement the highest layer and the lowest layer as one? < 1210199544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, just a regular interp < 1210199547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a layer of compilers < 1210199604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's whay I intended to happen < 1210199612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK < 1210199615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/y(.*)y/y$1t/ < 1210199615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we don't even need to think about layer < 1210199616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1210199618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's convenient < 1210199623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it :-) < 1210199630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... (.*?), but it doesn't matter in this case < 1210199635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's convenient < 1210199649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the layers exist for more limited implementations that can't manage the whole thing in one go < 1210199652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should we even have the word 'layer' in the code? < 1210199654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1210199659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not needed < 1210199665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we should just mentally fnord all mentions of 'layer' in the spec ;) < 1210199667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reference interp only has it in comments, to explain where things come from < 1210199681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok and now we need to define the data types < 1210199684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, layer 5 rules are preprocessor rules, whereas the other rules control run-time behaviour < 1210199685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that church numerals aren't sane < 1210199688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need multiple types < 1210199700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is easier, Qt or GTK? < 1210199706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the only data type in theory is the function from a stack of functions to a stack of functions < 1210199715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think GTK, but not by much, they're both pretty easy < 1210199716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you've used c for a few days < 1210199721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, Qt is easier < 1210199723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Qt is C++ < 1210199745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I recommend integer and list as data types < 1210199751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and string < 1210199753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably string too, which is a list of integers < 1210199759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, a string is not a list of integers < 1210199760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1210199764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in Underlambda < 1210199764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a list of 0-255s < 1210199772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: these integers are unicode codepoints right < 1210199779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried writing a GTK program while being bored in my Database class, and I couldn't remember the function to make a box < 1210199783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually ais523 < 1210199785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even going that route < 1210199790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes things like strlen nigh-on impossible < 1210199791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I leave charset undefined, but they're meant to allow unicode < 1210199792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please seperate out strings < 1210199795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess most programmers actually have references w/ them anyway, and have more practice,, < 1210199795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1210199803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you use the list length function to do a strlen < 1210199810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't work consistently with unicode < 1210199819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you don't store octets! < 1210199822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two equivalent strings can be different lengths of codepoints < 1210199827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store the raw unicode values, including the ones above 256 < 1210199835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone's using combining characters that's their fault < 1210199847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, nice attitude < 1210199855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of 'if someone's using unicode that's their fault' < 1210199860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it's a crappy attitude :) < 1210199860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1210199871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: combining characters should add extra to the length of the string for all sorts of reasons < 1210199887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because editing them can be done by editing the combining character and the character it combines to separately < 1210199892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can put the cursor between them < 1210199910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and partly because otherwise you could have infinitely long characters by overprinting multiples of the same combiner < 1210199958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads a LiveCD w/ KDE 4.0.4
< 1210200226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a LiveCD of what? < 1210200233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE doesn't run without some OS supporting it < 1210200250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.kde.org/~binner/kde-four-live/ < 1210200253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it designed to be able to run KDE from assuming you already have a particular OS running? < 1210200257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenSUSE < 1210200271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210200322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1210200326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wbehird < 1210200327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but < 1210200331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are still broken < 1210200334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have special strings < 1210200344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is an interp meant to tell if something's a string or not? < 1210200355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: special syntax < 1210200360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you can't S functions consistently < 1210200362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in underlambda < 1210200364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAARRRRRRRRGH! < 1210200364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use a list < 1210200370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you already have one element of that < 1210200380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "you have to use a list" < 1210200384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can S functions < 1210200389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you told me off for doing it < 1210200389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp just prints out the function < 1210200392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing hard about that < 1210200395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it would probably say < 1210200396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1210200399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't printing out functions, though < 1210200399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a reference interp < 1210200402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what wsa i < 1210200405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were trying to print out their source < 1210200406 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1210200416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes :P < 1210200417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing out a function is a perfectly good, defined possibility < 1210200426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but special syntax for strings isn't evil < 1210200427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not be human-readable (although it might be) < 1210200430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc" can just ... make a string < 1210200432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can read them back in again < 1210200434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple < 1210200437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "abc" does just make a string < 1210200441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& lets unicode support be exemplary < 1210200446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its equivalent to a list of characters < 1210200455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are numbers < 1210200460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1210200480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, list-manipulation and string-manipulation functions are the same thing < 1210200523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work with unicode < 1210200534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do it like haskell < 1210200544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are only so many characters on a keyboard < 1210200564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so multi char names < 1210200584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need em eventually < 1210200591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we can have, say, A be a command for extracting the first element of a list, and Á be a command for extracting the first char of a Unicode string < 1210200592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is unicode stuff stored in C? < 1210200599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in wchar_ts < 1210200603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not very successfully < 1210200610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody seems to support or use them properly < 1210200619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do people use? < 1210200621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ICU < 1210200625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICU? < 1210200630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1210200654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icu-project.org < 1210200655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1210200664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: combining characters are just wrong in terms of making sense < 1210200665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but most importantly? Stop whatever you're doing and go /learn c/ < 1210200671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tough. they're here. < 1210200676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you read in input and it has an unmatched combining character at the start? < 1210200682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tough. they're here. < 1210200682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs existing today could handle that < 1210200686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your proposal couldn't < 1210200690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it could < 1210200714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're trying to treat combining characters and the characters they combine with as one char < 1210200719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing treats them like that < 1210200740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not < 1210200747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct Underlambda way to handle this, anyway, would be for a combining char + the char it combines with to actually be one char < 1210200755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just assign it a massively large integer as a codepoint < 1210200759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then strings will be lists again < 1210200762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a /lot/ neater < 1210200774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could have conversion functions to and from other encodings, if needed < 1210200794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy? < 1210200804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not what i said :P < 1210200809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not what you said < 1210200812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1210200847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want duplicate commands for everything < 1210200854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good style at all < 1210200861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't say that < 1210200862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1210200863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1210200864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as bad as the strtof strtod thing < 1210200939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, data types: function, number, list < 1210200947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and continuation < 1210200965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're functions too, but special-casing them will add a lot of memory efficiency, probably, if there's some easy way to do it < 1210200984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we need to display them as functions < 1210200984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda numbers are nonnegative integers the way I've done it, though < 1210200984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not function? < 1210200989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may need to add a floating-point type < 1210200993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, let's maybe do CPS < 1210200993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: everything's a function < 1210200996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then continuations are cheap < 1210201011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: an Underlambda continuation is expensive as source, though < 1210201030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obliterate the current program and stack, recreate the stack, handle payload, run rest of program < 1210201035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the code amounts to < 1210201048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha but if you do cps < 1210201053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although that's what needs to be printed out, moving around multiple copies of the program would be insane < 1210201059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much better to use a CPS continuation instead < 1210201065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and convert that into a function if and when necessary < 1210201129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um < 1210201133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPS continuation = function.. < 1210201143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ANYTHING < 1210201150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210201157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you print out source code for a CPS continuation? < 1210201162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any language? < 1210201182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, presumably we'll be throwing around a pointer or something like that as the continuation < 1210201192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will have to write the whole thing out when writing it to a file < 1210201215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could space-optimise by grouping data stack and call-stack in continuations, like C-INTERCAL does < 1210201218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we won't make our c cps < 1210201235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, use shallow copies of bits of the call and data stacks that are the same < 1210201240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and refcount them < 1210201249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves a huge amount of memory < 1210201254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's different from a standard function < 1210201281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1210201305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (n=ais523@147.188.254.116) has left #ircnomic ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"") < 1210201306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1210201315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: INTERCAL sig < 1210201327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why did you leave < 1210201338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because I didn't want to have to think about ircnomic < 1210201348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the middle of a storm at Agora as it is < 1210201371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seemed dead for the night < 1210201376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I symbollicaly parted from it < 1210201509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another note, that interview questions thread on thedailywtf.com now has at least one Brainfuck version < 1210201780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210201788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1210201809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210201842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1210201912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the important CFJ is 1932? < 1210201924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210201929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210201932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should rejoin #ircnomic after all < 1210202036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you allowed to make your judgement a contract? < 1210202043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's an equity case < 1210202049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooo dooo < 1210202057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the judgement is a contract, according to the rules < 1210202129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric SUBJECT SERIES: Programming misconceptions < 1210202134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Huffman encoding sucks. I wrote a program in high school that did it. Stupid algorithm doesn't even give you the same document back when you decode it!" -- reddit comment < 1210202151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a programming misconception, that's a bug < 1210202163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in someone's brain ;P < 1210202188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you should get the same document back after decoding, if the encoder and decoder are compatible < 1210202204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1210202215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person doesn't realize that < 1210202228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that eirs didn't means that eir interpreter was buggy < 1210202244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it took me far too long to figure out that "eirs" was the correct pronoun < 1210202285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like singular they :| < 1210202293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1210202298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm nomicing a lot at the moment < 1210202447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 3 + 4 is the standard smalltalk test program < 1210202451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO it should be 4 - 3 < 1210202457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the parser might be going the wrong way ;) < 1210202470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 + 4 should do something far more interesting than returning 7 < 1210202480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in INTERCAL, + is a list separator, sort of like , in most other languages < 1210202494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I'm probably going to write a ruby nomic < 1210202502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you participate? you can pick up perl from perlnomic so.. < 1210202514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can pick up perl from perlnomic" < 1210202519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't, surely? < 1210202536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably wouldn't participate in a rubynomic just because that would be too many nomics at once, and I'm busy with exams at the moment < 1210202546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ihope doesn't know perl < 1210202551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e participates in perlnomic < 1210202556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really < 1210202564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e participates in the bite game < 1210202569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, rubynomic would probably be really trivial < 1210202571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and votes when people tell em to < 1210202575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe 5 minutes a day :-P < 1210202596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much fun in a nomic if you can't spend several weeks planning scams < 1210202661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scams would be easy! < 1210202671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: scams shouldn't be easy < 1210202677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easily-scammable nomic could be in trouble < 1210202689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1210202717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you introduce a strong tradition of using scams to fix emself < 1210202735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard protocol when you find a way to do anything is to give yourself a few points and fix the flaw at the same time < 1210202755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in longer-running nomics, winning the game at the same time is also acceptable as long as you restore the ruleset to someting sane < 1210202783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless you introduce a strong tradition of using scams to fix emself # that sounds fun < 1210202789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1210202797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 2nd proposal a scam :-) < 1210202818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you don't understand the art of nomicish scamming < 1210202999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the tradition say about scams that can't be exploited to fix emselves? < 1210203016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that particular tradition doesn't bind em < 1210203029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's bad form to repeat the same scam more than once in any case < 1210203034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if someone else did it first time < 1210203036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1210203047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't that happen with the Walrus scam? < 1210203047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally scams will be fixed by voting on a rules-change < 1210203049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Agora? < 1210203050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yep < 1210203057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same thing happened in IRCnomic too < 1210203060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A copycat scam soon emerged, and people voted it down? < 1210203062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was the same scam... < 1210203069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210203070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, when, and why don't I remember? < 1210203077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare: http://beta.reddit.com/, http://sp.reddit.com/reddit2mockup.jpg < 1210203080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ironic.. < 1210203081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the start of the most recent game, after the suffusion < 1210203095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted a proposal activity-bonus that gave people points for voting FOR it < 1210203109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then someone else (it might even have been you) tried the same thing and people voted AGAINST it < 1210203112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was me < 1210203115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210203116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people voted for it < 1210203117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1210203128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there were three attempts, then < 1210203136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR the first one is the only one that passed, though < 1210203192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210203194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine did < 1210203202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have logs for that? < 1210203207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think mine predates yours < 1210203209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope wiped < 1210203219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs wiped? Howwhy? < 1210203237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wiped my machine < 1210203238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server < 1210203335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my logs only go back to April 21 < 1210203402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when did ircnomic start < 1210203418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember < 1210203459 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could find the beginnings of ircnomic. < 1210203500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I seem to have the whole thing < 1210203507 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April 20. < 1210203514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April 21 was the start of the original ruleset after the first suffusion < 1210203520 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2008-04-20 15:22:33] Rule 1: Anyone may propose a change to the rules and vote either FOR or AGAINST a proposed change. After five minutes, if more than half of the votes are FOR the proposed change, it occurs. < 1210203522 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1210203523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is when I first came to hear of it < 1210203566 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods excessively
< 1210203595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original suffusion was, i seem to remember, epic < 1210203597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: looking through my logs, it seems that my activitybonus passed, and then you proposed to give /yourself/ points (and nobody else), and that failed < 1210203624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it involve the rule that, if it became negative, would knock out the other rules? < 1210203624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, i did another one soon < 1210203630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that after the first suffusion? < 1210203634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: after < 1210203638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210203649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I was around for the first suffusion, was I? < 1210203684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1210203688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, ihope, kyevan, some others < 1210203694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very oldskool. < 1210203851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm < 1210203855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit lets you create your own reddits < 1210203858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redditnomic? :D < 1210203896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1210203905 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pancake is the best nomic! < 1210203916 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION induces ehird to participate in it
< 1210203923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pancakonomic < 1210203964 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to Suggest that it be renamed, go ahead. :-P < 1210204039 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders an improvement that could be made to those light, fluffy Pancake rules
< 1210204194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1210204626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1210204635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Would you participate in a smallnomic? < 1210204637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk nomic < 1210204648 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1210204674 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it there's a way for Smalltalk to be a nomic. < 1210204744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yeah .. by writing a nomic app for it :P < 1210204760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's Perlnomic, except instead of editing files, you edit classse and methods < 1210204779 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numix.