00:01:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:06:00 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:23:12 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:23:13 bother ehird 00:23:13 Hey, bother ehird! 00:23:17 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 00:23:30 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:23:36 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:23:36 bother ehird 00:23:37 Oi ehird! 00:23:38 bother ehird 00:23:38 ehird! 00:23:39 bother ehird 00:23:39 Oi ehird!!! 00:23:42 ping ehird 00:23:42 Hey, ehird!!! 00:23:47 good 00:24:23 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:39:49 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:39:51 abc 00:39:55 .seen ehird 00:39:55 ehird: I last saw %s on %s%s, saying "%s" 00:39:55 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:40:50 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:40:51 .seen ehird 00:40:51 ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:40 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird" 00:41:52 .seen abc 00:41:52 calamari: I haven't seen abc. Sorry! 00:41:57 .seen 00:41:57 calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry! 00:42:04 .seen Endeavour 00:42:04 ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry! 00:42:15 .seen \n 00:42:15 calamari: I haven't seen \n. Sorry! 00:43:16 .seen 00:43:16 calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry! 00:43:59 .seen bot abusers 00:43:59 ehird: I haven't seen bot abusers. Sorry! 00:44:01 liar 00:45:28 wow.. you are hostile towards your beta testers.. must be M$ 00:45:32 calamari: :D 00:45:41 just kidding, of course 00:46:01 I know 00:46:37 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:47:01 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:47:03 .seen ehird 00:47:03 ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! 00:47:05 .seen ehird 00:47:05 ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying "ehird" 00:47:11 ... Oh lulz 00:47:37 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:47:45 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:47:47 hello world 00:47:48 .seen ehird 00:47:48 ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! 00:47:51 WTF 00:47:53 .seen ehird 00:47:53 ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird" 00:48:00 That's messed :D 00:48:03 .test 00:48:05 .seen Sgeo 00:48:05 Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:48 in #esoteric, saying ".test" 00:48:11 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:48:18 adding debugging stuff... 00:48:19 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:48:22 test 00:48:24 .seen ehird 00:48:24 ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! 00:48:26 oic 00:48:41 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:48:55 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:48:56 test 00:48:57 .seen ehird 00:48:57 ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying "test" 00:49:01 \o 00:49:03 o/ 00:49:04 \o/ 00:49:18 .seen Sgeo 00:49:18 Sgeo: I haven't seen Sgeo. Sorry! 00:49:20 .seen Sgeo 00:49:21 Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying ".seen Sgeo" 00:49:29 .seen Endeavour 00:49:29 ehird: Endeavour? Who's he? 00:49:29 ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry! 00:49:32 It doesn't see people who don't talk? 00:49:33 oops 00:49:39 Sgeo: No. 00:49:45 Why should it? 00:50:11 Because what you're doing more closely corresponds with a "lastspoke" than a "seen 00:50:12 " 00:50:24 Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that 00:51:25 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:51:31 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:51:31 .seen ehird 00:51:32 ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:50 in #esoteric, saying "Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that" 00:51:47 .seen olsner 00:51:47 olsner: I haven't seen olsner. Sorry! 00:51:50 FWIW, seen.py is only 41 lines 00:52:14 41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner! 00:52:26 olsner: And good catch, fixing that 00:52:27 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:52:33 -!- Endeavour has joined. 00:52:34 .seen olsner 00:52:35 olsner: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:52 in #esoteric, saying "41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner!" 00:52:50 http://rafb.net/p/AAHTnD16.html seen.py 00:52:56 .seen lament 00:52:56 ehird: I haven't seen lament. Sorry! 00:53:00 .seen ehird 00:53:00 ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:53 in #esoteric, saying ".seen lament" 00:53:01 Ehh 00:53:07 Someone use seen on themselves that haven't talked before 00:53:09 pikhq: You. 00:53:18 .seen 89¨ª•¨å•ª¨·‚ 00:53:18 -!- Endeavour has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:53:22 LOL 00:53:45 you seem to be having a wee bit of a data validation problem there :P 00:54:20 it's easy to track parts/quits 00:54:52 calamari: sure it is but why would i 00:55:08 It doesn't see people who don't talk? 00:55:17 Fine fine fine 00:55:20 :P 00:55:36 BUT tomorrow 00:55:38 Today I must go 00:55:50 also people who are in the chan 00:56:02 actually, I think only counting talking is quite sensible 00:56:36 -!- ehird has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 00:57:11 lots of people idle on IRC when they leave/sleep/work rather than shut down their clients 00:57:49 olsner: also people who are in the chan ;) 00:58:04 but I see your point 00:58:34 "the last time we knew this person was alive" is what ehirds bot currently does.. 00:58:56 * Sgeo would call that a lastspoke, not a seen 00:59:08 actually that's probably more useful... hmm 01:06:39 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:39:37 Me? 01:42:27 pikhq: you were supposed to say ".seen pikhq" before saying anything else, to test the bot 01:43:48 Ah. 01:43:51 .seen pikhq 01:44:15 And the bot's not here. 01:45:13 * SimonRC goes to bed 01:47:23 g'night SimonRC 03:25:11 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:25:14 howdy, folks 03:26:20 Hello sir 03:26:35 'sup, Slereah? 03:29:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:37:26 -!- Visitor-51A12C has joined. 03:37:50 What's new is, I have a bad connection 03:37:54 -!- Visitor-51A12C has changed nick to Slereah. 03:43:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:43:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:21:28 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:41:44 -!- Judofyr has joined. 06:43:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 06:57:04 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:15:18 -!- Judofyr has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:40:02 -!- Iskr has joined. 08:45:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:18:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:30:54 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:42:49 words = ["head" "neck" "eye" "foot"] 10:42:51 match a b = if a == b then 0 else 1 10:42:53 sim [] [] = 0 10:42:55 sim a:as b:bs = match a b + sim as bs | 1 + sim as b:bs | 1 + sim a:as bs 10:42:57 :: sim "hed" \words 10:43:30 genetics-based language for trying to find the values / choice tree for least numeric result 10:45:29 should return "head", with 'h' == 'h' => 'e' == 'e' => drop 'a' from "head" => 'd' == 'd' 10:45:41 this information should be given as result 10:46:16 probably could hack something like this up, with exponential search time to make it always find the best result 10:46:57 also might be possible to automatically find the perfect solution for something that simple 10:47:59 automatically find the perfect solution for finding the perfect solution that is 10:48:07 ... 10:48:12 automatically find a good solution for finding the perfect solution that is 10:48:52 i think this corresponds to one of the known similarity metrics of strings 10:48:55 dunno 10:50:50 well... i think with memoizing this would be O(n^2), but a lot of memory would be used 10:51:33 so perhaps it could just realize we've always dropped a certain number of chars from the beginning, and just memoize the pair of these numbers 10:52:16 now, realizing the pairs are (0..len(a), 0..len(b)) lets us use a matrix for memoization, actually giving us that one dynamic programming algo for this! 10:52:17 i think 10:52:47 someone who knows anything, tell me where i failed 10:53:57 if it's that simple, it might have been possible to deduce the algo from just that definition, which actually suggests this might be useful 10:54:50 well, it's essentially an extension to prolog, ofc 10:55:24 except everything is made a function again... prolog does this same thing, except there, functions just return 0 or 1, so the number doesn't actually need to be seen 10:56:03 i think 10:56:10 i don't really know anything 10:56:29 so everyone's asleep? 10:56:41 olo 10:59:13 dsb rh rg gszg zoo xszmmvoh zodzbh hovvk zg gsv hznv grnv vevm gskfts r'n lm xszmmvoh zoo zilfmw gsv dliow? 10:59:18 also, god i'm slow 10:59:25 learned the chart this moning 10:59:27 *morning 10:59:43 took less time than writing that sentence :D 11:00:39 should learn char-number pairs, would be nice to be fluent in all caesar 11:02:13 -!- oklopol has set topic: http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ --> .pr UPPER .pr STRING p=".pr UPPER .pr STRING p=?;print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:])";print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:]) --> this_is_an_oklotalk_quine. 11:02:52 "hey, perhaps i should use my morning by writing an oklotalk quine so i get some semantics on strings!!" 11:02:59 "oh, right..." 11:04:33 i guess it's not technically a quine, because that's not printed to stdout 11:04:41 don't really know the definition 11:04:47 that's a repl quine 11:50:34 -!- jix has joined. 12:02:44 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:29:06 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 12:31:06 hey all 12:41:03 -!- timotiis has joined. 13:05:02 -!- Iskr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:08:15 -!- Vintersorg has joined. 13:08:26 -!- Vintersorg has left (?). 13:23:49 -!- Iskr has joined. 13:46:20 Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/a5bUjK70.html <-- stuff are now autogenerated from lists like that :) 13:46:38 including the main list of available fingerprints 14:15:43 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]"). 15:34:48 -!- timotiis has quit (Connection timed out). 15:45:54 -!- timotiis has joined. 15:58:31 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:03:28 -!- Corun has joined. 16:23:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:23:32 -!- ehird` has left (?). 16:26:22 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 16:26:45 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:26:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:27:26 -!- timotiis has quit (Client Quit). 16:31:05 -!- Corun has joined. 16:36:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:36:53 What happened to the Wiki? 16:37:15 It has more database errors than usual! 16:37:26 i can't even OPEN it 16:37:30 it just 404's or something 16:39:50 hello? 16:39:56 Wot? 16:47:04 i can't get to the wiki 16:47:23 i can't either 16:47:27 i just imagine it 16:48:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:54:01 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:59:34 Are there any database-based esolangs around? 16:59:40 No, I'm not counting SQL >.> 17:00:06 Also, esolangs.org/wiki 's search is erroring 17:00:19 i don't think there are 17:00:50 * Sgeo is designing one in his head, although the way it does conditionals is rather ugly thus far 17:01:19 do share it 17:01:44 personally, i hate sql 17:01:47 There are a bunch of special tables 17:02:11 time is tracked as a branch and a time 17:02:12 special tables used for flow control? :D 17:02:21 what does that mean 17:02:48 there's a pl_nextime table with branch,time as a primary key, which indicates the next branch and time to go to after that branch and time is done 17:03:10 there's a table for memory, which is 2-dimensional 17:03:33 mem.x = 0 doesn't exist, it's used to specify constants 17:04:02 there's a pl_todo table, with branch,time as primary key 17:04:14 and other fields: command, destx, desty 17:04:30 command is the command, like '+ 17:04:36 '+' or 'frommem' 17:04:58 destx and desty are the destination in the memory table for the result 17:05:17 there's a pl_args with primary key: branch,time,argnum 17:05:27 and other fields memx,memy 17:05:42 which specify where from memory to pull the argument 17:05:54 or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant 17:06:42 -!- oklofok has joined. 17:06:57 oklopol, um, did you get what I said, or did you ping out or something? 17:07:48 i pingered out after memory to pull the argument 17:08:34 or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant 17:08:34 hmm so 17:08:45 assembly with commands stored in a database, somewhat? 17:08:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:09:15 Um, I don't think quite like assembly 17:09:16 not sure 17:09:49 hmm 17:10:03 times are numbers of operations executed at a certain point? 17:10:13 or actually time 17:10:13 ? 17:10:47 time goes sequentially unless specified otherwise in pl_nextime. You can only execute one command at a given time. 17:11:44 so direct correlation between time and number of operations executed, that was what i meant 17:12:12 anyway, basically, you will have to build new code as you go 17:12:44 oklofok, you don't HAVE to do that. You can using the frommem command, but you can just specify everything in the database beforehand too. 17:12:47 if you allow for multiple operations per one tick, you can probably do something 17:12:57 frommem? 17:13:13 you can't have infinitely many tuples in the database, can you? 17:13:20 if you can, indeed, you don't have to do that 17:13:45 oklofok, or for loops, just specify an entry in pl_nextime 17:13:59 what's that mean 17:14:18 Say I want an infinite loop, and branch,time starts at 0,0 17:14:26 there are 5 operations I want to do in a loop 17:14:39 pl_nextime contains [0,4,0,0] 17:15:09 saying that at the end of 0,4 go to branch/time 0,0 17:15:23 ah you can rewind time 17:15:34 yes 17:16:16 i'm still not entirely sure how exactly evaluation works 17:16:25 try being a bit more formal 17:16:35 what do the tuples contain, and how is evaluation done 17:17:30 evaluation is done by looking at pl_todo for the current branch,time 17:17:46 then pulling all the arguments from pl_args 17:17:59 what does "current branch,time" mean? 17:18:18 the entry stored in pl_time 17:18:18 is this a 2-tuple set to 0,0 at the beginning of the program, and moved in a funge-like fashion to some direction? 17:18:36 oklofok, it's a 2-tuple, and normally just time increases, not branch 17:18:41 okay 17:19:08 branch can change based on pl_nextime though. 17:19:28 * Sgeo just isn't sure how frommem is going to work, though 17:19:35 so, (branch,time) is read from pl_todo, which specifies operation, arguments, and next (branch,time)? 17:19:57 pl_todo doesn't specify the next (branch,time) 17:20:05 so we're dealing with a two-dimensional assembly where the 2d array is stored in an associative map? 17:20:06 hmm 17:20:07 that's done in pl_nextime 17:20:11 *associative array perhaps 17:20:24 and todo would be what? 17:20:37 todo is the list of commands, one for each branch,time 17:21:26 pl_nextime is also indexed by (branch,time) 17:21:26 ? 17:21:31 yes 17:21:58 it is assembly then, pretty much. 17:22:29 (not trying to crush your dream, just trying to be realistic :P) 17:23:20 Does this mean I should stop bothering, or should I keep working on this? 17:23:31 well 17:23:42 you might wanna try adding some relational algebra 17:23:54 and perhaps derive something computationally interesting from that 17:24:24 you could have just trivial operations, and do more by joining and cutting tables 17:24:26 or smth 17:24:37 do you know relational algebra? 17:24:39 no :( 17:24:48 do you know sql? 17:25:43 a bit 17:25:53 sql is a kind of mix of relational algebra and calculus, imo you should learn both, and then try making your own lang 17:26:01 I'm planning on one of the commands being "sql" 17:26:11 where the program can run arbitrary sql 17:26:22 well i somewhat guessed 17:26:26 memory holds tables? 17:26:45 pl_mem hold single values in a 2-dimensional array 17:26:48 actually 17:27:05 there is a frommem command that can pull values from memory and put it into arbitrary tables.. 17:27:16 you could probably have flow control be based on quining, or something, making new programs with operations on the tables 17:27:17 dunno 17:27:19 hmm 17:28:57 hehe, i love yellow journalism, how could i have lived without knowing someone *scratched their ass in america* http://www.iltasanomat.fi/viihde/uutinen.asp?id=1518906 17:29:15 about pamela anderson scratching their ass with a set of keys 17:32:47 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 17:33:13 Sgeo: i'm always a bit sceptic when it comes to people's first esolangs, i recommend you keep on it, but my suggestion for making a database-based esolang is 1. learn sql, relational calculus and algebra and play with 'em 2. just add simple functionality, in most cases, an esolang should be small 3. don't use an existing language and just built a separate evaluation layer on it, that's a teensy bit lame 17:34:06 and, well, i suggest you look at the existing body of esolangs, and actually try to use them, a language creator should know languages 17:34:59 to be a good esolang designer, you need to understand how a simple language can be extended with functionality from scratch... languages like that are the most interesting ones 17:36:11 also, wouldn't hurt trying to make a few brainfuck/unlambda clones or smth, in your case brainfuck, most have done that, it's nice not to have to do anything revolutionary right away, one will probably just go very wrong. 17:36:44 * Sgeo made a BF-RLE, does that count? 17:36:48 hmm 17:36:54 what's that? 17:36:55 Or do you mean with the database thing? 17:36:55 don't remember 17:37:03 database + brainfuck 17:37:08 why not 17:38:36 BF-RLE = BF stripped of comments, and each character can be followed by a number in base-62, the number is the number of times the character appears in a row at that point minus 3. 17:38:52 It's on the wiki, but wiki doesn't seem to be working. 17:39:01 ah, right 17:39:02 that one 17:41:13 who maintains the esowiki? 17:41:20 "from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doquery". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'mw_objectcache' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)"." 17:42:08 graue 17:42:12 dunno 17:42:16 i think it's him 17:42:41 yarr 17:44:27 * Sgeo emails 17:46:40 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:46:42 hi 17:49:13 yug 17:49:33 Hi asiekierka 17:52:12 I'd like a programming language that you can program with just using 4 buttons + a D-pad 17:52:20 (esoteric) 17:53:32 whuzza d-pad 17:54:24 directional pad 17:55:53 asiekierka, can't be too difficult to make YABFC 17:56:04 18:07:24 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:15:19 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol. 18:19:32 -!- Corun has joined. 18:20:12 Hi Corun 18:29:01 Er, hi. 18:46:12 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 18:46:58 well that lasted 18:48:36 What's SQL concatonate? 18:48:37 ||? 18:48:44 sometimes 18:49:52 What is it for MS SQL Server? 18:50:06 dunno 18:50:40 concatonating sounds a bit like concatenating, but at the same time detonating, perhaps 18:50:46 so i'd say overall, it's a nop 18:50:59 i think i'm using overalls wrong 18:51:00 lol oklopol 18:51:08 GregorR already busted me about it once 18:51:19 I think MS SQL can use '+' to concatenate strings. 18:51:36 Could be wrong, though. 18:52:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:52:34 oh, about the wiki: it seems to be down, and I've emailed graue 18:52:58 you can still access the wikitext of a page, however, by typing in http://esolangs.org/wiki/name_of_page?action=raw&ctype=text/css 18:53:59 http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id= seems to be vulnerable to SQL injection, it expects a number in a "WHERE id=" way 18:54:25 lots of things are vulnerable to SQL injection 18:54:58 (I remember the story about the person who used '; DROP DATABASE; -- as their standard password, but stopped after one website they came to actually crashed when they tried to create an account) 18:55:17 "Little Bobby Tables." 18:55:35 http://xkcd.com/327/ 18:55:36 http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20ORDER%20BY%20id%20DESC last article in the kb 18:55:38 fizzie: that's a different story, a well-known cartoon that probably never happened in real life 18:56:02 Sgeo: you mean it allows SQL injection in the URL? That's a new one as far as I'm concerend 18:56:09 although I'm not particularly surprised 18:56:21 I've seen it before in an FAQ 18:56:52 alas ; is forbidden 18:56:55 Although SQL injection in that faq was a bit more fun, you could actually do useful things like combining all the questions from categories 18:56:56 any way round that? 18:57:16 you could use a subquery, I suppose 18:57:25 but I don't know enough SQL to write one 18:57:36 I think this thing is using some sort of LIMIT 1 18:57:42 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:57:52 -!- jix has joined. 18:58:27 Can't seem to get rid of it 18:58:44 not even using --? 18:59:16 http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=553%20OR%20id=554;-- 18:59:32 what happens? 18:59:33 multi-line query? 18:59:55 -- only goes up to the next newline IIRC 19:00:06 ais523, nothing special happens 19:00:14 * ais523 is musing about the text/css in the URL above 19:00:22 text/css shows like plaintext in all commonly-used browsers 19:00:27 whereas text/plain doesn't 19:00:35 huh? 19:00:59 it's forbidden as a ctype on Wikimedia because IE will run it as JScript under some circumstances 19:01:07 WTF? 19:01:08 ! 19:01:08 making it possible to avoid XSS restrictions 19:01:12 Huh? 19:01:14 hah 19:01:18 EgoBot: indeed 19:01:23 * ais523 agrees with EgoBot too 19:01:27 Can subqueries be run in a select clause? 19:01:38 *shrug* 19:02:02 Sgeo: don't do anything illegal, you might get in trouble for deleting entries or something like that 19:02:14 I guess using where whatever IN some_select_clause 19:02:25 But that's not too useful if I want to get a COUNT(*) 19:02:59 I don't even know the table name 19:05:13 * Sgeo learns both the table name and a column 19:05:17 http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20GROUP%20BY%20id 19:05:48 by guessing the column name? 19:06:01 kb.problem_statement 19:06:07 kb.solution_text 19:08:28 ais523, the SELECT isn't a * 19:08:50 The fields in there are illegal since they're not in a GROUP BY 19:09:01 and the GROUP BY was specified 19:09:04 (in my query 19:09:15 Now I can search for the first article to contain, say CD 19:09:17 * ais523 just came across this quote: "I don't want to implement it correctly. I want to maintain all the hideously poor design of the original, but in a language people may actually have compilers for." 19:10:15 Ok, what's the LIKE syntax for MS SQL Server? 19:17:29 it seems nobody here knows, you may have to look it up somehow 19:18:01 Sgeo: the same as usualy? 19:18:03 usual 19:18:09 oklopol, tried it, doesn't work 19:18:49 http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20solution_text%20LIKE%20'%Error%' 19:25:36 * Sgeo decides to upgrade to Fx3 19:26:23 Or maybe later 19:28:24 Firefox 3? Where? 19:29:33 it's still in beta IIRC 19:29:50 but early-adoption-style beta, I think 19:32:43 is it very different? 19:34:05 it's apparently much better in terms of memory usage 19:34:10 and much faster at JavaScript 19:34:20 which are two of the most commonly-heard criticisms of Firefox 2 19:34:31 JITted javascript? 19:35:09 I don't know the details 19:35:21 hmm... 19:35:29 * Sgeo can't find the DL 19:36:06 mmm, partially-precompiled JITted Javascript with big fat libraries 19:36:10 n/m 19:36:22 Javascript is in some ways a nice language than Java 19:36:37 it has more oomph in its closure system for a start 19:37:15 Javascript is a nicer language than Java in more or less every way 19:37:41 I like its object orientation model too, I think it's my favourite OO model out of all the ones I've come across even though it flies in the face of the usual theory 19:38:16 (there's no distinction between an object or a class the way I write JavaScript, you can derive from anything to get a new object) 19:38:26 now, if only there was a simple way to do multiple inheritance... 19:38:31 aka. prototype-based programming 19:38:56 ais523: is there a method that gets called if another method isn't found? 19:39:19 I don't think so 19:39:49 methods are just properties with a closure as their value, anyway 19:40:02 that you don't change except to override them 19:45:36 * Sgeo downloads and unpacks Firefox3b5, and changes some shortcut-like-thing-tat-he-always-usez 19:46:35 http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/whatsnew/ pretty page 19:47:18 what a pity; the method-not-found method is a powerful tool 19:47:22 Lua has it, for example 19:47:34 The font seems different 19:47:58 SimonRC: Perl has it too, but I don't like the implementation 19:48:05 Neat easy bookmarking feature 19:52:11 looking at the release notes, I see that it now prompts to save tabs on exit 19:52:34 I've been doing that for a while by closing Firefox with SIGHUP rather than exiting, which fools it into thinking it's crashed, when I want to save the tabs 19:53:00 it's quite retarded you have to do it that way 19:53:02 i do that to 19:53:03 too 19:53:11 isn't there another way? 19:53:21 Flash doesn't seem to want to install 19:53:22 Grr 19:53:48 oklopol: yes 19:53:56 SIGKILL works too 19:55:11 SIGHUP is easy to send, though 19:55:19 -!- Corun has joined. 19:55:25 I just press the power button, which SIGHUPs everything and does a controlled shutdown 19:55:36 lol 19:56:44 SimonRC: can you given an example of what you use method-not-found for? I saw a Perl program once that used it to gain all shell commands as methods, but I suspect that isn't a typical use of it 19:57:46 well, you can fake multiple inheritence and do elegant delegation with it 19:58:21 any non-found methods are delegated to the secondary parent or the delegate 19:59:25 * Sgeo can't seem to get flash to work 19:59:26 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:22 Sgeo: you probably don't /want/ Flash to work 20:01:30 ais523, YouTube 20:01:33 Flash was working here fine a while ago, but I got fed up of it and uninstalled 20:01:41 * ais523 never visits YouTube 20:02:12 * SimonRC found a good use for flash: http://armorgames.com/play/107/portal-the-flash-version 20:04:17 How do I get flash on 3b5? 20:04:41 I recommend contacting your local witchdoctor. 20:04:51 same way you'd get it on 2? 20:04:55 you will need a large black cock 20:04:58 Giving a byte-count while loading without a progress bar = retardo 20:05:00 s/cock/rooster/ 20:05:37 a byte-count is much easier to code :-) 20:06:12 Deewiant: depends on what language you're coding in 20:06:21 a progress bar would be much easier than a byte-count in Underload, for instance 20:06:31 huh? 20:06:33 why? 20:06:50 because byte-count means you have to translate numbers into decimal 20:06:54 progress-bar works in unary 20:07:03 >_< 20:07:06 heh 20:07:08 :D 20:07:44 ais523: giving a unary byte-count would qualify as a progress bar as well, though, so they're at least equally easy ;-) 20:07:49 of course, both are impossible without allowing some sort of input... 20:07:56 hmm, s/least/most/ 20:08:14 Yay it works 20:09:20 Sgeo: for future reference, what did you do? 20:09:37 Installed from the file available from the Flash site 20:09:59 Instead of having Firefox do the installation from that "Missing Plugins" thing 20:33:20 SimonRC, the mouse is always unreasonably slow for me in that game 20:43:22 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 21:04:25 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:04:53 best oklotalk quine ever 21:05:02 oklopol: ello 21:05:06 -hello 21:09:27 hi 21:11:09 oklopol: unfortunately i am not on my mac so i do not have INTERESTING OKLOTALK CODE 21:11:12 but did you submit it? 21:11:26 uhhm? 21:12:04 i supermitted it. 21:15:19 heh 21:15:22 any info back? 21:15:31 did they vomit upon seeing the lenient syntax? 21:15:39 OKLOTALK: EXPRESSIVENESS, POWER AND VOMIT 21:15:45 about the quine... by the same logic, is a quine in most (functional) languages... but still fun 21:16:00 oooh 21:16:08 submitted the interp, ah 21:16:21 had no idea what you meant :P 21:16:27 didn't yet. 21:16:57 but they will probably be very underqualified to say *anything* about it. 21:17:00 oklopol: sheesh. can i at least look at the code now? ;) 21:17:16 didn't even submit yet! 21:17:27 I love this message: WARNING: `missing` script is too old or missing 21:17:28 not before that at least, okay? 21:17:45 oklopol: aww, ok 21:17:57 oklopol: can i independently implement it 21:17:57 :DD 21:18:05 lofl :) 21:18:10 if you link to the pastebin of the primitives i will 21:18:14 noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 21:18:20 oklopol: but you pastebinned it earlier 21:18:23 make your own langs :) 21:18:25 i could just look at the logs 21:18:27 yarrr 21:18:35 i can resend it 21:18:41 so there's no stopping me you could just be a little more helpful :P 21:18:41 the "spec" 21:19:30 -!- Iskr has quit ("Leaving"). 21:19:33 noo, not that 21:19:40 you vjn.fi/pb'd the list of primitive functions 21:19:54 it's there too 21:20:08 :(((( downloading zips make me sad 21:20:09 but ok 21:20:10 :P 21:20:11 :P 21:20:23 well, there isn't really *anything* 21:20:36 oklopol: oh thats not the spec i thought 21:20:41 map, filter (ftr), ! indexes 21:20:42 i meant you vjn.fi/pb'd one 21:20:54 that contains it, i think 21:20:57 look in the end 21:21:03 or middle 21:21:05 dunno 21:21:51 oklopol: doesn't 21:21:56 hmmmm 21:22:12 whhhell 21:22:37 that stuff? 21:34:03 oklopol: well ok 21:34:07 I am now working on... OKOHIRD 21:34:16 it is OKO in PYTHON, but with continuations ETC 21:34:22 yes, OKO 21:34:23 not just oko 21:34:24 OKO 21:38:51 oklopol: is (a b c d) a syntax error? 21:38:57 or is it valid under some contexts 21:39:16 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:39:51 -!- olsner has joined. 21:42:03 -!- ehird1 has joined. 21:42:10 what's this about submitting oklotalk to somewhere? 21:42:17 SimonRC: it's for okoschool 21:42:21 -!- ehird1 has left (?). 21:42:21 its his okoproject 21:42:23 for okoschool 21:42:27 *boggle* 21:42:31 bastard 21:42:34 SimonRC: why 21:42:40 he gets the interesting projects 21:42:43 uh 21:42:46 im pretty sure he chose to do it 21:42:56 yes, that is my point 21:42:58 hes the only one crazy enough to make okotalk 21:43:04 he gets the interesting projects 21:43:17 or rather, he is allowed to do them 21:43:44 I would not have been able to do that for any class 21:45:35 oklopol: oko 21:48:31 oklopol: ping 21:56:02 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 21:58:37 HEY oklopol ANSWER :P 21:59:34 sometimes there's two of him, other times he's not there at all 22:06:51 oklopol: oko 22:29:12 oklopol: okokokokoko 22:31:05 oh wow, intreactive comic-drawing (check out the post times) http://forums.explosm.net/showthread.php?t=5296&filter= 22:31:25 Old. 22:31:34 I have the two first stories if you want 22:31:41 They were deleted when the forum crashed 22:31:45 in a more convinient format? 22:31:53 * SimonRC likes the post of 09-13-2007, 07:22 PM 22:31:56 like, surreal 22:31:59 It's the forum pages with only the pictures 22:32:14 ok 22:32:14 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:36:44 ehird`: (a b c d) is okay with -> 22:36:50 never otherwise 22:36:58 oklopol: should i treat -> as syntax 22:37:05 i.e. should i make (a b c d) a syntax error 22:37:11 its possible 22:37:35 SimonRC : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Explosm/ 22:37:42 It's loading, but the first parts are here 22:38:07 ok 22:38:18 yeah it should be a syntax error 22:38:27 SimonRC: the project is fairly free 22:38:49 just has to be related to either computers or media... which can be pretty much anything 22:39:04 ehird`: making oklotalk--? 22:39:18 There's a third story, about a zombie invasion. But the forum crashed while it was written, so I didn't save it. 22:39:27 why not ehirdtalk, we need to see that too :D 22:39:38 oklopol: i will do ehirdtalk too of course 22:39:40 but yes oklotalk-- 22:40:24 whhhell, go for it, but try to make it even worse than mine, so i don't feel so bad. 22:40:31 (impossible? oh well...) 22:40:48 oklopol: but yeah, is it possible to treat -> as special syntax? 22:40:52 hmm 22:40:53 like, will it ever appear in something other than the car 22:41:04 well 22:41:08 it can be used as a normal atom 22:41:14 also is [...] an array or a list 22:41:18 oklopol: but is (a -> b) meaningful 22:41:22 array or a list? 22:41:29 like, implementation of it? 22:41:33 that is not specified 22:41:53 oklopol: what is it called 22:42:05 i call it a list 22:42:15 it's implemented as a normal python array 22:42:23 because it needs random access 22:42:36 so i thought it'd be better that way 22:43:24 anyway, actual oklotalk doesn't even distinguish between a list and a hashmap 22:43:31 because both are just functions 22:43:32 oklopol: but whatsit called 22:43:34 list. 22:43:38 in -- 22:45:19 thing,list,1app,2app,atom(special case: var),int,string 22:45:22 oklopol: those are the oklotalk AST nodes right 22:45:32 well, and 4app for -> i guess 22:45:37 hey, is (-> a b c d e f) ok too? 22:45:43 like, is -> variadic? 22:45:46 i think so 22:46:07 yyes 22:46:27 a is pattern, the rest of the args are how the function is continued 22:46:56 basically, you can make different paths for execution to follow, using pattern matching 22:47:29 oklopol: yes yes 22:47:33 oklopol: ok then, another questin 22:47:40 oklopol: is (-> X) valid? 22:47:42 or just (-> X Y ...) 22:48:09 it should be valid 22:48:22 hmm 22:48:31 oklopol: ok 22:48:47 oklopol: is (X -> Y ...) or similar forms valid, or is (-> X Y Z ...) the only 'pattern match' case 22:48:53 only the latter 22:49:01 -> and = are special this way 22:49:57 you can use (a -> b) and (a = b) to get -> and = to work as normal operators... but well, that'd be retarded, ofc :-) 22:51:38 oklopol: ok 22:51:41 oklopol: is = variadic? 22:51:44 or just: (= a b) 22:51:45 no. 22:51:47 just that 22:51:50 okay 22:51:58 i need to go now, so ask quickly if you have more 22:52:00 oklopol: so, awesome: i'm going to parse (-> a b) as patternnodes 22:52:06 and (= a b) as assignment nodes 22:52:21 oklopol: and, (a b c d) will be a parse error 22:52:25 oklopol: also when will you be back? 22:53:17 hmm 22:53:19 tomorrow :| 22:53:31 it should be a parse error, yeah 22:53:55 you will prolly have the implementation ready by then 22:54:16 bye! 22:54:17 -> 23:04:13 -!- Corun has joined. 23:08:31 -!- timotiis has joined. 23:32:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datalog 23:32:15 discuss 23:38:37 Or don;t 23:38:40 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:46:37 :D 23:50:32 Nobody alive? 23:58:35 hm