←2008-04-13 2008-04-14 2008-04-15→ ↑2008 ↑all
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00:23:13 <ehird> bother ehird
00:23:13 <Endeavour> Hey, bother ehird!
00:23:17 <ehird> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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00:23:36 <ehird> bother ehird
00:23:37 <Endeavour> Oi ehird!
00:23:38 <ehird> bother ehird
00:23:38 <Endeavour> ehird!
00:23:39 <ehird> bother ehird
00:23:39 <Endeavour> Oi ehird!!!
00:23:42 <ehird> ping ehird
00:23:42 <Endeavour> Hey, ehird!!!
00:23:47 <ehird> good
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00:39:51 <ehird> abc
00:39:55 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:39:55 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw %s on %s%s, saying "%s"
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00:40:51 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:40:51 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:40 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird"
00:41:52 <calamari> .seen abc
00:41:52 <Endeavour> calamari: I haven't seen abc. Sorry!
00:41:57 <calamari> .seen
00:41:57 <Endeavour> calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry!
00:42:04 <ehird> .seen Endeavour
00:42:04 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry!
00:42:15 <calamari> .seen \n
00:42:15 <Endeavour> calamari: I haven't seen \n. Sorry!
00:43:16 <calamari> .seen
00:43:16 <Endeavour> calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry!
00:43:59 <ehird> .seen bot abusers
00:43:59 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen bot abusers. Sorry!
00:44:01 <ehird> liar
00:45:28 <calamari> wow.. you are hostile towards your beta testers.. must be M$
00:45:32 <ehird> calamari: :D
00:45:41 <ehird> just kidding, of course
00:46:01 <calamari> I know
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00:47:03 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:47:03 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry!
00:47:05 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:47:05 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying "ehird"
00:47:11 <ehird> ... Oh lulz
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00:47:47 <ehird> hello world
00:47:48 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:47:48 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry!
00:47:51 <ehird> WTF
00:47:53 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:47:53 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird"
00:48:00 <ehird> That's messed :D
00:48:03 <Sgeo> .test
00:48:05 <Sgeo> .seen Sgeo
00:48:05 <Endeavour> Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:48 in #esoteric, saying ".test"
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00:48:18 <ehird> adding debugging stuff...
00:48:19 -!- Endeavour has joined.
00:48:22 <ehird> test
00:48:24 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:48:24 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry!
00:48:26 <ehird> oic
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00:48:56 <ehird> test
00:48:57 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:48:57 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying "test"
00:49:01 <ehird> \o
00:49:03 <ehird> o/
00:49:04 <ehird> \o/
00:49:18 <Sgeo> .seen Sgeo
00:49:18 <Endeavour> Sgeo: I haven't seen Sgeo. Sorry!
00:49:20 <Sgeo> .seen Sgeo
00:49:21 <Endeavour> Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying ".seen Sgeo"
00:49:29 <ehird> .seen Endeavour
00:49:29 <Endeavour> ehird: Endeavour? Who's he?
00:49:29 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry!
00:49:32 <Sgeo> It doesn't see people who don't talk?
00:49:33 <ehird> oops
00:49:39 <ehird> Sgeo: No.
00:49:45 <ehird> Why should it?
00:50:11 <Sgeo> Because what you're doing more closely corresponds with a "lastspoke" than a "seen
00:50:12 <Sgeo> "
00:50:24 <ehird> Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that
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00:51:31 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:51:32 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:50 in #esoteric, saying "Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that"
00:51:47 <olsner> .seen olsner
00:51:47 <Endeavour> olsner: I haven't seen olsner. Sorry!
00:51:50 <ehird> FWIW, seen.py is only 41 lines
00:52:14 <olsner> 41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner!
00:52:26 <ehird> olsner: And good catch, fixing that
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00:52:34 <olsner> .seen olsner
00:52:35 <Endeavour> olsner: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:52 in #esoteric, saying "41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner!"
00:52:50 <ehird> http://rafb.net/p/AAHTnD16.html seen.py
00:52:56 <ehird> .seen lament
00:52:56 <Endeavour> ehird: I haven't seen lament. Sorry!
00:53:00 <ehird> .seen ehird
00:53:00 <Endeavour> ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:53 in #esoteric, saying ".seen lament"
00:53:01 <ehird> Ehh
00:53:07 <ehird> Someone use seen on themselves that haven't talked before
00:53:09 <ehird> pikhq: You.
00:53:18 <ehird> .seen 89¨ª•¨å•ª¨·‚
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00:53:22 <ehird> LOL
00:53:45 <olsner> you seem to be having a wee bit of a data validation problem there :P
00:54:20 <calamari> it's easy to track parts/quits
00:54:52 <ehird> calamari: sure it is but why would i
00:55:08 <calamari> <Sgeo> It doesn't see people who don't talk?
00:55:17 <ehird> Fine fine fine
00:55:20 <calamari> :P
00:55:36 <ehird> BUT tomorrow
00:55:38 <ehird> Today I must go
00:55:50 <calamari> also people who are in the chan
00:56:02 <olsner> actually, I think only counting talking is quite sensible
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00:57:11 <olsner> lots of people idle on IRC when they leave/sleep/work rather than shut down their clients
00:57:49 <calamari> olsner: <calamari> also people who are in the chan ;)
00:58:04 <calamari> but I see your point
00:58:34 <calamari> "the last time we knew this person was alive" is what ehirds bot currently does..
00:58:56 * Sgeo would call that a lastspoke, not a seen
00:59:08 <calamari> actually that's probably more useful... hmm
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01:39:37 <pikhq> Me?
01:42:27 <olsner> pikhq: you were supposed to say ".seen pikhq" before saying anything else, to test the bot
01:43:48 <pikhq> Ah.
01:43:51 <pikhq> .seen pikhq
01:44:15 <pikhq> And the bot's not here.
01:45:13 * SimonRC goes to bed
01:47:23 <Sgeo> g'night SimonRC
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03:25:14 <RodgerTheGreat> howdy, folks
03:26:20 <Slereah> Hello sir
03:26:35 <RodgerTheGreat> 'sup, Slereah?
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03:37:50 <Visitor-51A12C> What's new is, I have a bad connection
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10:42:49 <oklopol> words = ["head" "neck" "eye" "foot"]
10:42:51 <oklopol> match a b = if a == b then 0 else 1
10:42:53 <oklopol> sim [] [] = 0
10:42:55 <oklopol> sim a:as b:bs = match a b + sim as bs | 1 + sim as b:bs | 1 + sim a:as bs
10:42:57 <oklopol> :: sim "hed" \words
10:43:30 <oklopol> genetics-based language for trying to find the values / choice tree for least numeric result
10:45:29 <oklopol> should return "head", with 'h' == 'h' => 'e' == 'e' => drop 'a' from "head" => 'd' == 'd'
10:45:41 <oklopol> this information should be given as result
10:46:16 <oklopol> probably could hack something like this up, with exponential search time to make it always find the best result
10:46:57 <oklopol> also might be possible to automatically find the perfect solution for something that simple
10:47:59 <oklopol> automatically find the perfect solution for finding the perfect solution that is
10:48:07 <oklopol> ...
10:48:12 <oklopol> automatically find a good solution for finding the perfect solution that is
10:48:52 <oklopol> i think this corresponds to one of the known similarity metrics of strings
10:48:55 <oklopol> dunno
10:50:50 <oklopol> well... i think with memoizing this would be O(n^2), but a lot of memory would be used
10:51:33 <oklopol> so perhaps it could just realize we've always dropped a certain number of chars from the beginning, and just memoize the pair of these numbers
10:52:16 <oklopol> now, realizing the pairs are (0..len(a), 0..len(b)) lets us use a matrix for memoization, actually giving us that one dynamic programming algo for this!
10:52:17 <oklopol> i think
10:52:47 <oklopol> someone who knows anything, tell me where i failed
10:53:57 <oklopol> if it's that simple, it might have been possible to deduce the algo from just that definition, which actually suggests this might be useful
10:54:50 <oklopol> well, it's essentially an extension to prolog, ofc
10:55:24 <oklopol> except everything is made a function again... prolog does this same thing, except there, functions just return 0 or 1, so the number doesn't actually need to be seen
10:56:03 <oklopol> i think
10:56:10 <oklopol> i don't really know anything
10:56:29 <oklopol> so everyone's asleep?
10:56:41 <oklopol> olo
10:59:13 <oklopol> dsb rh rg gszg zoo xszmmvoh zodzbh hovvk zg gsv hznv grnv vevm gskfts r'n lm xszmmvoh zoo zilfmw gsv dliow?
10:59:18 <oklopol> also, god i'm slow
10:59:25 <oklopol> learned the chart this moning
10:59:27 <oklopol> *morning
10:59:43 <oklopol> took less time than writing that sentence :D
11:00:39 <oklopol> should learn char-number pairs, would be nice to be fluent in all caesar
11:02:13 -!- oklopol has set topic: http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ --> .pr UPPER .pr STRING p=".pr UPPER .pr STRING p=?;print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:])";print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:]) --> this_is_an_oklotalk_quine.
11:02:52 <oklopol> "hey, perhaps i should use my morning by writing an oklotalk quine so i get some semantics on strings!!"
11:02:59 <oklopol> "oh, right..."
11:04:33 <oklopol> i guess it's not technically a quine, because that's not printed to stdout
11:04:41 <oklopol> don't really know the definition
11:04:47 <oklopol> that's a repl quine
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12:31:06 <UnrelatedToQaz> hey all
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13:46:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/a5bUjK70.html <-- stuff are now autogenerated from lists like that :)
13:46:38 <AnMaster> including the main list of available fingerprints
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16:36:53 <asiekierka> What happened to the Wiki?
16:37:15 <Slereah> It has more database errors than usual!
16:37:26 <asiekierka> i can't even OPEN it
16:37:30 <asiekierka> it just 404's or something
16:39:50 <asiekierka> hello?
16:39:56 <Slereah> Wot?
16:47:04 <asiekierka> i can't get to the wiki
16:47:23 <oklopol> i can't either
16:47:27 <oklopol> i just imagine it
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16:59:34 <Sgeo> Are there any database-based esolangs around?
16:59:40 <Sgeo> No, I'm not counting SQL >.>
17:00:06 <Sgeo> Also, esolangs.org/wiki 's search is erroring
17:00:19 <oklopol> i don't think there are
17:00:50 * Sgeo is designing one in his head, although the way it does conditionals is rather ugly thus far
17:01:19 <oklopol> do share it
17:01:44 <oklopol> personally, i hate sql
17:01:47 <Sgeo> There are a bunch of special tables
17:02:11 <Sgeo> time is tracked as a branch and a time
17:02:12 <oklopol> special tables used for flow control? :D
17:02:21 <oklopol> what does that mean
17:02:48 <Sgeo> there's a pl_nextime table with branch,time as a primary key, which indicates the next branch and time to go to after that branch and time is done
17:03:10 <Sgeo> there's a table for memory, which is 2-dimensional
17:03:33 <Sgeo> mem.x = 0 doesn't exist, it's used to specify constants
17:04:02 <Sgeo> there's a pl_todo table, with branch,time as primary key
17:04:14 <Sgeo> and other fields: command, destx, desty
17:04:30 <Sgeo> command is the command, like '+
17:04:36 <Sgeo> '+' or 'frommem'
17:04:58 <Sgeo> destx and desty are the destination in the memory table for the result
17:05:17 <Sgeo> there's a pl_args with primary key: branch,time,argnum
17:05:27 <Sgeo> and other fields memx,memy
17:05:42 <Sgeo> which specify where from memory to pull the argument
17:05:54 <Sgeo> or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant
17:06:42 -!- oklofok has joined.
17:06:57 <Sgeo> oklopol, um, did you get what I said, or did you ping out or something?
17:07:48 <oklofok> i pingered out after memory to pull the argument
17:08:34 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant
17:08:34 <oklofok> hmm so
17:08:45 <oklofok> assembly with commands stored in a database, somewhat?
17:08:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
17:09:15 <Sgeo> Um, I don't think quite like assembly
17:09:16 <Sgeo> not sure
17:09:49 <oklofok> hmm
17:10:03 <oklofok> times are numbers of operations executed at a certain point?
17:10:13 <oklofok> or actually time
17:10:13 <oklofok> ?
17:10:47 <Sgeo> time goes sequentially unless specified otherwise in pl_nextime. You can only execute one command at a given time.
17:11:44 <oklofok> so direct correlation between time and number of operations executed, that was what i meant
17:12:12 <oklofok> anyway, basically, you will have to build new code as you go
17:12:44 <Sgeo> oklofok, you don't HAVE to do that. You can using the frommem command, but you can just specify everything in the database beforehand too.
17:12:47 <oklofok> if you allow for multiple operations per one tick, you can probably do something
17:12:57 <oklofok> frommem?
17:13:13 <oklofok> you can't have infinitely many tuples in the database, can you?
17:13:20 <oklofok> if you can, indeed, you don't have to do that
17:13:45 <Sgeo> oklofok, or for loops, just specify an entry in pl_nextime
17:13:59 <oklofok> what's that mean
17:14:18 <Sgeo> Say I want an infinite loop, and branch,time starts at 0,0
17:14:26 <Sgeo> there are 5 operations I want to do in a loop
17:14:39 <Sgeo> pl_nextime contains [0,4,0,0]
17:15:09 <Sgeo> saying that at the end of 0,4 go to branch/time 0,0
17:15:23 <oklofok> ah you can rewind time
17:15:34 <Sgeo> yes
17:16:16 <oklofok> i'm still not entirely sure how exactly evaluation works
17:16:25 <oklofok> try being a bit more formal
17:16:35 <oklofok> what do the tuples contain, and how is evaluation done
17:17:30 <Sgeo> evaluation is done by looking at pl_todo for the current branch,time
17:17:46 <Sgeo> then pulling all the arguments from pl_args
17:17:59 <oklofok> what does "current branch,time" mean?
17:18:18 <Sgeo> the entry stored in pl_time
17:18:18 <oklofok> is this a 2-tuple set to 0,0 at the beginning of the program, and moved in a funge-like fashion to some direction?
17:18:36 <Sgeo> oklofok, it's a 2-tuple, and normally just time increases, not branch
17:18:41 <oklofok> okay
17:19:08 <Sgeo> branch can change based on pl_nextime though.
17:19:28 * Sgeo just isn't sure how frommem is going to work, though
17:19:35 <oklofok> so, (branch,time) is read from pl_todo, which specifies operation, arguments, and next (branch,time)?
17:19:57 <Sgeo> pl_todo doesn't specify the next (branch,time)
17:20:05 <oklofok> so we're dealing with a two-dimensional assembly where the 2d array is stored in an associative map?
17:20:06 <oklofok> hmm
17:20:07 <Sgeo> that's done in pl_nextime
17:20:11 <oklofok> *associative array perhaps
17:20:24 <oklofok> and todo would be what?
17:20:37 <Sgeo> todo is the list of commands, one for each branch,time
17:21:26 <oklofok> pl_nextime is also indexed by (branch,time)
17:21:26 <oklofok> ?
17:21:31 <Sgeo> yes
17:21:58 <oklofok> it is assembly then, pretty much.
17:22:29 <oklofok> (not trying to crush your dream, just trying to be realistic :P)
17:23:20 <Sgeo> Does this mean I should stop bothering, or should I keep working on this?
17:23:31 <oklofok> well
17:23:42 <oklofok> you might wanna try adding some relational algebra
17:23:54 <oklofok> and perhaps derive something computationally interesting from that
17:24:24 <oklofok> you could have just trivial operations, and do more by joining and cutting tables
17:24:26 <oklofok> or smth
17:24:37 <oklofok> do you know relational algebra?
17:24:39 <Sgeo> no :(
17:24:48 <oklofok> do you know sql?
17:25:43 <Sgeo> a bit
17:25:53 <oklofok> sql is a kind of mix of relational algebra and calculus, imo you should learn both, and then try making your own lang
17:26:01 <Sgeo> I'm planning on one of the commands being "sql"
17:26:11 <Sgeo> where the program can run arbitrary sql
17:26:22 <oklofok> well i somewhat guessed
17:26:26 <oklofok> memory holds tables?
17:26:45 <Sgeo> pl_mem hold single values in a 2-dimensional array
17:26:48 <Sgeo> actually
17:27:05 <Sgeo> there is a frommem command that can pull values from memory and put it into arbitrary tables..
17:27:16 <oklofok> you could probably have flow control be based on quining, or something, making new programs with operations on the tables
17:27:17 <oklofok> dunno
17:27:19 <oklofok> hmm
17:28:57 <oklofok> hehe, i love yellow journalism, how could i have lived without knowing someone *scratched their ass in america* http://www.iltasanomat.fi/viihde/uutinen.asp?id=1518906
17:29:15 <oklofok> about pamela anderson scratching their ass with a set of keys
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17:33:13 <oklofok> Sgeo: i'm always a bit sceptic when it comes to people's first esolangs, i recommend you keep on it, but my suggestion for making a database-based esolang is 1. learn sql, relational calculus and algebra and play with 'em 2. just add simple functionality, in most cases, an esolang should be small 3. don't use an existing language and just built a separate evaluation layer on it, that's a teensy bit lame
17:34:06 <oklofok> and, well, i suggest you look at the existing body of esolangs, and actually try to use them, a language creator should know languages
17:34:59 <oklofok> to be a good esolang designer, you need to understand how a simple language can be extended with functionality from scratch... languages like that are the most interesting ones
17:36:11 <oklofok> also, wouldn't hurt trying to make a few brainfuck/unlambda clones or smth, in your case brainfuck, most have done that, it's nice not to have to do anything revolutionary right away, one will probably just go very wrong.
17:36:44 * Sgeo made a BF-RLE, does that count?
17:36:48 <oklofok> hmm
17:36:54 <oklofok> what's that?
17:36:55 <Sgeo> Or do you mean with the database thing?
17:36:55 <oklofok> don't remember
17:37:03 <oklofok> database + brainfuck
17:37:08 <oklofok> why not
17:38:36 <Sgeo> BF-RLE = BF stripped of comments, and each character can be followed by a number in base-62, the number is the number of times the character appears in a row at that point minus 3.
17:38:52 <Sgeo> It's on the wiki, but wiki doesn't seem to be working.
17:39:01 <oklofok> ah, right
17:39:02 <oklofok> that one
17:41:13 <Sgeo> who maintains the esowiki?
17:41:20 <Sgeo> "from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doquery". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'mw_objectcache' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)"."
17:42:08 <oklofok> graue
17:42:12 <oklofok> dunno
17:42:16 <oklofok> i think it's him
17:42:41 <oklofok> yarr
17:44:27 * Sgeo emails
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17:46:42 <asiekierka> hi
17:49:13 <oklofok> yug
17:49:33 <Sgeo> Hi asiekierka
17:52:12 <asiekierka> I'd like a programming language that you can program with just using 4 buttons + a D-pad
17:52:20 <asiekierka> (esoteric)
17:53:32 <oklofok> whuzza d-pad
17:54:24 <Deewiant> directional pad
17:55:53 <Sgeo> asiekierka, can't be too difficult to make YABFC
17:56:04 <Sgeo> </boring>
18:07:24 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:15:19 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol.
18:19:32 -!- Corun has joined.
18:20:12 <Sgeo> Hi Corun
18:29:01 <Corun> Er, hi.
18:46:12 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
18:46:58 <SimonRC> well that lasted
18:48:36 <Sgeo> What's SQL concatonate?
18:48:37 <Sgeo> ||?
18:48:44 <SimonRC> sometimes
18:49:52 <Sgeo> What is it for MS SQL Server?
18:50:06 <SimonRC> dunno
18:50:40 <oklopol> concatonating sounds a bit like concatenating, but at the same time detonating, perhaps
18:50:46 <oklopol> so i'd say overall, it's a nop
18:50:59 <oklopol> i think i'm using overalls wrong
18:51:00 <Sgeo> lol oklopol
18:51:08 <oklopol> GregorR already busted me about it once
18:51:19 <fizzie> I think MS SQL can use '+' to concatenate strings.
18:51:36 <fizzie> Could be wrong, though.
18:52:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:52:34 <ais523> oh, about the wiki: it seems to be down, and I've emailed graue
18:52:58 <ais523> you can still access the wikitext of a page, however, by typing in http://esolangs.org/wiki/name_of_page?action=raw&ctype=text/css
18:53:59 <Sgeo> http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id= seems to be vulnerable to SQL injection, it expects a number in a "WHERE id=" way
18:54:25 <ais523> lots of things are vulnerable to SQL injection
18:54:58 <ais523> (I remember the story about the person who used '; DROP DATABASE; -- as their standard password, but stopped after one website they came to actually crashed when they tried to create an account)
18:55:17 <fizzie> "Little Bobby Tables."
18:55:35 <fizzie> http://xkcd.com/327/
18:55:36 <Sgeo> http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20ORDER%20BY%20id%20DESC last article in the kb
18:55:38 <ais523> fizzie: that's a different story, a well-known cartoon that probably never happened in real life
18:56:02 <ais523> Sgeo: you mean it allows SQL injection in the URL? That's a new one as far as I'm concerend
18:56:09 <ais523> although I'm not particularly surprised
18:56:21 <Sgeo> I've seen it before in an FAQ
18:56:52 <SimonRC> alas ; is forbidden
18:56:55 <Sgeo> Although SQL injection in that faq was a bit more fun, you could actually do useful things like combining all the questions from categories
18:56:56 <SimonRC> any way round that?
18:57:16 <ais523> you could use a subquery, I suppose
18:57:25 <ais523> but I don't know enough SQL to write one
18:57:36 <Sgeo> I think this thing is using some sort of LIMIT 1
18:57:42 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:57:52 -!- jix has joined.
18:58:27 <Sgeo> Can't seem to get rid of it
18:58:44 <ais523> not even using --?
18:59:16 <Sgeo> http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=553%20OR%20id=554;--
18:59:32 <ais523> what happens?
18:59:33 <SimonRC> multi-line query?
18:59:55 <SimonRC> -- only goes up to the next newline IIRC
19:00:06 <Sgeo> ais523, nothing special happens
19:00:14 * ais523 is musing about the text/css in the URL above
19:00:22 <ais523> text/css shows like plaintext in all commonly-used browsers
19:00:27 <ais523> whereas text/plain doesn't
19:00:35 <SimonRC> huh?
19:00:59 <ais523> it's forbidden as a ctype on Wikimedia because IE will run it as JScript under some circumstances
19:01:07 <SimonRC> WTF?
19:01:08 <SimonRC> !
19:01:08 <ais523> making it possible to avoid XSS restrictions
19:01:12 <EgoBot> Huh?
19:01:14 <SimonRC> hah
19:01:18 <SimonRC> EgoBot: indeed
19:01:23 * ais523 agrees with EgoBot too
19:01:27 <Sgeo> Can subqueries be run in a select clause?
19:01:38 <SimonRC> *shrug*
19:02:02 <ais523> Sgeo: don't do anything illegal, you might get in trouble for deleting entries or something like that
19:02:14 <Sgeo> I guess using where whatever IN some_select_clause
19:02:25 <Sgeo> But that's not too useful if I want to get a COUNT(*)
19:02:59 <Sgeo> I don't even know the table name
19:05:13 * Sgeo learns both the table name and a column
19:05:17 <Sgeo> http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20GROUP%20BY%20id
19:05:48 <ais523> by guessing the column name?
19:06:01 <Sgeo> kb.problem_statement
19:06:07 <Sgeo> kb.solution_text
19:08:28 <Sgeo> ais523, the SELECT isn't a *
19:08:50 <Sgeo> The fields in there are illegal since they're not in a GROUP BY
19:09:01 <Sgeo> and the GROUP BY was specified
19:09:04 <Sgeo> (in my query
19:09:15 <Sgeo> Now I can search for the first article to contain, say CD
19:09:17 * ais523 just came across this quote: "I don't want to implement it correctly. I want to maintain all the hideously poor design of the original, but in a language people may actually have compilers for."
19:10:15 <Sgeo> Ok, what's the LIKE syntax for MS SQL Server?
19:17:29 <ais523> it seems nobody here knows, you may have to look it up somehow
19:18:01 <oklopol> Sgeo: the same as usualy?
19:18:03 <oklopol> usual
19:18:09 <Sgeo> oklopol, tried it, doesn't work
19:18:49 <Sgeo> http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20solution_text%20LIKE%20'%Error%'
19:25:36 * Sgeo decides to upgrade to Fx3
19:26:23 <Sgeo> Or maybe later
19:28:24 <SimonRC> Firefox 3? Where?
19:29:33 <ais523> it's still in beta IIRC
19:29:50 <ais523> but early-adoption-style beta, I think
19:32:43 <SimonRC> is it very different?
19:34:05 <ais523> it's apparently much better in terms of memory usage
19:34:10 <ais523> and much faster at JavaScript
19:34:20 <ais523> which are two of the most commonly-heard criticisms of Firefox 2
19:34:31 <SimonRC> JITted javascript?
19:35:09 <ais523> I don't know the details
19:35:21 <SimonRC> hmm...
19:35:29 * Sgeo can't find the DL
19:36:06 <SimonRC> mmm, partially-precompiled JITted Javascript with big fat libraries
19:36:10 <Sgeo> n/m
19:36:22 <SimonRC> Javascript is in some ways a nice language than Java
19:36:37 <SimonRC> it has more oomph in its closure system for a start
19:37:15 <ais523> Javascript is a nicer language than Java in more or less every way
19:37:41 <ais523> I like its object orientation model too, I think it's my favourite OO model out of all the ones I've come across even though it flies in the face of the usual theory
19:38:16 <ais523> (there's no distinction between an object or a class the way I write JavaScript, you can derive from anything to get a new object)
19:38:26 <ais523> now, if only there was a simple way to do multiple inheritance...
19:38:31 <Deewiant> aka. prototype-based programming
19:38:56 <SimonRC> ais523: is there a method that gets called if another method isn't found?
19:39:19 <ais523> I don't think so
19:39:49 <ais523> methods are just properties with a closure as their value, anyway
19:40:02 <ais523> that you don't change except to override them
19:45:36 * Sgeo downloads and unpacks Firefox3b5, and changes some shortcut-like-thing-tat-he-always-usez
19:46:35 <Sgeo> http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/whatsnew/ pretty page
19:47:18 <SimonRC> what a pity; the method-not-found method is a powerful tool
19:47:22 <SimonRC> Lua has it, for example
19:47:34 <Sgeo> The font seems different
19:47:58 <ais523> SimonRC: Perl has it too, but I don't like the implementation
19:48:05 <Sgeo> Neat easy bookmarking feature
19:52:11 <ais523> looking at the release notes, I see that it now prompts to save tabs on exit
19:52:34 <ais523> I've been doing that for a while by closing Firefox with SIGHUP rather than exiting, which fools it into thinking it's crashed, when I want to save the tabs
19:53:00 <oklopol> it's quite retarded you have to do it that way
19:53:02 <oklopol> i do that to
19:53:03 <oklopol> too
19:53:11 <oklopol> isn't there another way?
19:53:21 <Sgeo> Flash doesn't seem to want to install
19:53:22 <Sgeo> Grr
19:53:48 <SimonRC> oklopol: yes
19:53:56 <SimonRC> SIGKILL works too
19:55:11 <ais523> SIGHUP is easy to send, though
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19:55:25 <ais523> I just press the power button, which SIGHUPs everything and does a controlled shutdown
19:55:36 <SimonRC> lol
19:56:44 <ais523> SimonRC: can you given an example of what you use method-not-found for? I saw a Perl program once that used it to gain all shell commands as methods, but I suspect that isn't a typical use of it
19:57:46 <SimonRC> well, you can fake multiple inheritence and do elegant delegation with it
19:58:21 <SimonRC> any non-found methods are delegated to the secondary parent or the delegate
19:59:25 * Sgeo can't seem to get flash to work
19:59:26 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit).
20:01:22 <ais523> Sgeo: you probably don't /want/ Flash to work
20:01:30 <Sgeo> ais523, YouTube
20:01:33 <ais523> Flash was working here fine a while ago, but I got fed up of it and uninstalled
20:01:41 * ais523 never visits YouTube
20:02:12 * SimonRC found a good use for flash: http://armorgames.com/play/107/portal-the-flash-version
20:04:17 <Sgeo> How do I get flash on 3b5?
20:04:41 <SimonRC> I recommend contacting your local witchdoctor.
20:04:51 <Deewiant> same way you'd get it on 2?
20:04:55 <SimonRC> you will need a large black cock
20:04:58 <GregorR> Giving a byte-count while loading without a progress bar = retardo
20:05:00 <SimonRC> s/cock/rooster/
20:05:37 <Deewiant> a byte-count is much easier to code :-)
20:06:12 <ais523> Deewiant: depends on what language you're coding in
20:06:21 <ais523> a progress bar would be much easier than a byte-count in Underload, for instance
20:06:31 <SimonRC> huh?
20:06:33 <SimonRC> why?
20:06:50 <ais523> because byte-count means you have to translate numbers into decimal
20:06:54 <ais523> progress-bar works in unary
20:07:03 <Deewiant> >_<
20:07:06 <SimonRC> heh
20:07:08 <oklopol> :D
20:07:44 <Deewiant> ais523: giving a unary byte-count would qualify as a progress bar as well, though, so they're at least equally easy ;-)
20:07:49 <ais523> of course, both are impossible without allowing some sort of input...
20:07:56 <Deewiant> hmm, s/least/most/
20:08:14 <Sgeo> Yay it works
20:09:20 <ais523> Sgeo: for future reference, what did you do?
20:09:37 <Sgeo> Installed from the file available from the Flash site
20:09:59 <Sgeo> Instead of having Firefox do the installation from that "Missing Plugins" thing
20:33:20 <Sgeo> SimonRC, the mouse is always unreasonably slow for me in that game
20:43:22 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
21:04:25 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:04:53 <ehird`> best oklotalk quine ever
21:05:02 <ehird`> oklopol: ello
21:05:06 <ehird`> -hello
21:09:27 <oklopol> hi
21:11:09 <ehird`> oklopol: unfortunately i am not on my mac so i do not have INTERESTING OKLOTALK CODE
21:11:12 <ehird`> but did you submit it?
21:11:26 <oklopol> uhhm?
21:12:04 <oklopol> i supermitted it.
21:15:19 <ehird`> heh
21:15:22 <ehird`> any info back?
21:15:31 <ehird`> did they vomit upon seeing the lenient syntax?
21:15:39 <ehird`> OKLOTALK: EXPRESSIVENESS, POWER AND VOMIT
21:15:45 <oklopol> about the quine... by the same logic, <any number> is a quine in most (functional) languages... but still fun
21:16:00 <oklopol> oooh
21:16:08 <oklopol> submitted the interp, ah
21:16:21 <oklopol> had no idea what you meant :P
21:16:27 <oklopol> didn't yet.
21:16:57 <oklopol> but they will probably be very underqualified to say *anything* about it.
21:17:00 <ehird`> oklopol: sheesh. can i at least look at the code now? ;)
21:17:16 <oklopol> didn't even submit yet!
21:17:27 <GregorR> I love this message: WARNING: `missing` script is too old or missing
21:17:28 <oklopol> not before that at least, okay?
21:17:45 <ehird`> oklopol: aww, ok
21:17:57 <ehird`> oklopol: can i independently implement it
21:17:57 <ehird`> :DD
21:18:05 <oklopol> lofl :)
21:18:10 <ehird`> if you link to the pastebin of the primitives i will
21:18:14 <oklopol> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:18:20 <ehird`> oklopol: but you pastebinned it earlier
21:18:23 <oklopol> make your own langs :)
21:18:25 <ehird`> i could just look at the logs
21:18:27 <oklopol> yarrr
21:18:35 <oklopol> i can resend it
21:18:41 <ehird`> so there's no stopping me you could just be a little more helpful :P
21:18:41 <oklopol> the "spec"
21:19:30 -!- Iskr has quit ("Leaving").
21:19:33 <ehird`> noo, not that
21:19:40 <ehird`> you vjn.fi/pb'd the list of primitive functions
21:19:54 <oklopol> it's there too
21:20:08 <ehird`> :(((( downloading zips make me sad
21:20:09 <ehird`> but ok
21:20:10 <ehird`> :P
21:20:11 <oklopol> :P
21:20:23 <oklopol> well, there isn't really *anything*
21:20:36 <ehird`> oklopol: oh thats not the spec i thought
21:20:41 <oklopol> map, filter (ftr), ! indexes
21:20:42 <ehird`> i meant you vjn.fi/pb'd one
21:20:54 <oklopol> that contains it, i think
21:20:57 <oklopol> look in the end
21:21:03 <oklopol> or middle
21:21:05 <oklopol> dunno
21:21:51 <ehird`> oklopol: doesn't
21:21:56 <oklopol> hmmmm
21:22:12 <oklopol> whhhell
21:22:37 <oklopol> that stuff?
21:34:03 <ehird`> oklopol: well ok
21:34:07 <ehird`> I am now working on... OKOHIRD
21:34:16 <ehird`> it is OKO in PYTHON, but with continuations ETC
21:34:22 <ehird`> yes, OKO
21:34:23 <ehird`> not just oko
21:34:24 <ehird`> OKO
21:38:51 <ehird`> oklopol: is (a b c d) a syntax error?
21:38:57 <ehird`> or is it valid under some contexts
21:39:16 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:39:51 -!- olsner has joined.
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21:42:10 <SimonRC> what's this about submitting oklotalk to somewhere?
21:42:17 <ehird`> SimonRC: it's for okoschool
21:42:21 -!- ehird1 has left (?).
21:42:21 <ehird`> its his okoproject
21:42:23 <ehird`> for okoschool
21:42:27 <SimonRC> *boggle*
21:42:31 <SimonRC> bastard
21:42:34 <ehird`> SimonRC: why
21:42:40 <SimonRC> he gets the interesting projects
21:42:43 <ehird`> uh
21:42:46 <ehird`> im pretty sure he chose to do it
21:42:56 <SimonRC> yes, that is my point
21:42:58 <ehird`> hes the only one crazy enough to make okotalk
21:43:04 <SimonRC> he gets the interesting projects
21:43:17 <SimonRC> or rather, he is allowed to do them
21:43:44 <SimonRC> I would not have been able to do that for any class
21:45:35 <ehird`> oklopol: oko
21:48:31 <ehird`> oklopol: ping
21:56:02 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
21:58:37 <ehird`> HEY oklopol ANSWER :P
21:59:34 <olsner> sometimes there's two of him, other times he's not there at all
22:06:51 <ehird`> oklopol: oko
22:29:12 <ehird`> oklopol: okokokokoko
22:31:05 <SimonRC> oh wow, intreactive comic-drawing (check out the post times) http://forums.explosm.net/showthread.php?t=5296&filter=
22:31:25 <Slereah> Old.
22:31:34 <Slereah> I have the two first stories if you want
22:31:41 <Slereah> They were deleted when the forum crashed
22:31:45 <SimonRC> in a more convinient format?
22:31:53 * SimonRC likes the post of 09-13-2007, 07:22 PM
22:31:56 <SimonRC> like, surreal
22:31:59 <Slereah> It's the forum pages with only the pictures
22:32:14 <SimonRC> ok
22:32:14 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:36:44 <oklopol> ehird`: (a b c d) is okay with ->
22:36:50 <oklopol> never otherwise
22:36:58 <ehird`> oklopol: should i treat -> as syntax
22:37:05 <ehird`> i.e. should i make (a b c d) a syntax error
22:37:11 <ehird`> its possible
22:37:35 <Slereah> SimonRC : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Explosm/
22:37:42 <Slereah> It's loading, but the first parts are here
22:38:07 <SimonRC> ok
22:38:18 <oklopol> yeah it should be a syntax error
22:38:27 <oklopol> SimonRC: the project is fairly free
22:38:49 <oklopol> just has to be related to either computers or media... which can be pretty much anything
22:39:04 <oklopol> ehird`: making oklotalk--?
22:39:18 <Slereah> There's a third story, about a zombie invasion. But the forum crashed while it was written, so I didn't save it.
22:39:27 <oklopol> why not ehirdtalk, we need to see that too :D
22:39:38 <ehird`> oklopol: i will do ehirdtalk too of course
22:39:40 <ehird`> but yes oklotalk--
22:40:24 <oklopol> whhhell, go for it, but try to make it even worse than mine, so i don't feel so bad.
22:40:31 <oklopol> (impossible? oh well...)
22:40:48 <ehird`> oklopol: but yeah, is it possible to treat -> as special syntax?
22:40:52 <oklopol> hmm
22:40:53 <ehird`> like, will it ever appear in something other than the car
22:41:04 <oklopol> well
22:41:08 <oklopol> it can be used as a normal atom
22:41:14 <ehird`> also is [...] an array or a list
22:41:18 <ehird`> oklopol: but is (a -> b) meaningful
22:41:22 <oklopol> array or a list?
22:41:29 <oklopol> like, implementation of it?
22:41:33 <oklopol> that is not specified
22:41:53 <ehird`> oklopol: what is it called
22:42:05 <oklopol> i call it a list
22:42:15 <oklopol> it's implemented as a normal python array
22:42:23 <oklopol> because it needs random access
22:42:36 <oklopol> so i thought it'd be better that way
22:43:24 <oklopol> anyway, actual oklotalk doesn't even distinguish between a list and a hashmap
22:43:31 <oklopol> because both are just functions
22:43:32 <ehird`> oklopol: but whatsit called
22:43:34 <oklopol> list.
22:43:38 <oklopol> in --
22:45:19 <ehird`> thing,list,1app,2app,atom(special case: var),int,string
22:45:22 <ehird`> oklopol: those are the oklotalk AST nodes right
22:45:32 <ehird`> well, and 4app for -> i guess
22:45:37 <ehird`> hey, is (-> a b c d e f) ok too?
22:45:43 <ehird`> like, is -> variadic?
22:45:46 <ehird`> i think so
22:46:07 <oklopol> yyes
22:46:27 <oklopol> a is pattern, the rest of the args are how the function is continued
22:46:56 <oklopol> basically, you can make different paths for execution to follow, using pattern matching
22:47:29 <ehird`> oklopol: yes yes
22:47:33 <ehird`> oklopol: ok then, another questin
22:47:40 <ehird`> oklopol: is (-> X) valid?
22:47:42 <ehird`> or just (-> X Y ...)
22:48:09 <oklopol> it should be valid
22:48:22 <oklopol> hmm
22:48:31 <ehird`> oklopol: ok
22:48:47 <ehird`> oklopol: is (X -> Y ...) or similar forms valid, or is (-> X Y Z ...) the only 'pattern match' case
22:48:53 <oklopol> only the latter
22:49:01 <oklopol> -> and = are special this way
22:49:57 <oklopol> you can use (a -> b) and (a = b) to get -> and = to work as normal operators... but well, that'd be retarded, ofc :-)
22:51:38 <ehird`> oklopol: ok
22:51:41 <ehird`> oklopol: is = variadic?
22:51:44 <ehird`> or just: (= a b)
22:51:45 <oklopol> no.
22:51:47 <oklopol> just that
22:51:50 <ehird`> okay
22:51:58 <oklopol> i need to go now, so ask quickly if you have more
22:52:00 <ehird`> oklopol: so, awesome: i'm going to parse (-> a b) as patternnodes
22:52:06 <ehird`> and (= a b) as assignment nodes
22:52:21 <ehird`> oklopol: and, (a b c d) will be a parse error
22:52:25 <ehird`> oklopol: also when will you be back?
22:53:17 <oklopol> hmm
22:53:19 <oklopol> tomorrow :|
22:53:31 <oklopol> it should be a parse error, yeah
22:53:55 <oklopol> you will prolly have the implementation ready by then
22:54:16 <oklopol> bye!
22:54:17 <oklopol> ->
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23:32:14 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datalog
23:32:15 <ehird`> discuss
23:38:37 <ehird`> Or don;t
23:38:40 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
23:46:37 <ehird`> :D
23:50:32 <ehird`> Nobody alive?
23:58:35 <SimonRC> hm
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