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00:09:33 <slereah_> What's a good introduction on electronics for computing purpose?
00:15:22 <oklopol> why not do like me and just know everything without explicitly learning it?
00:17:06 <slereah_> I tried, but I can't find the shoes.
00:19:41 <oklopol> i just use whatever gonkers you can fimble your mendelas on
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00:46:00 * slereah_ tries to whip up a Jot interpreter.
00:53:21 <slereah_> I can get rid of most of the checking in Lazy Bird to build it
01:36:56 <slereah_> the advertised "non-terminating program" terminates.
01:40:25 <slereah_> Wait, is 100 actually supposed to be i
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03:46:37 <slereah_> apparently, the 1[A][B] for `AB only works for the combinators 11100 11111000
03:46:45 <slereah_> k is also 00, but 10000 isn't `kk
03:51:22 <slereah_> Is the Jot guy still available on his email adress?
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14:21:03 <Deewiant> http://cubonegro.orgfree.com/sponge/sponge.html
14:34:35 <Deewiant> heh, generates about 6500 bytes to calculate the factorial of 5
14:43:20 <Deewiant> AnMaster: if you want to do benchmarking, this generates some /slow/ code :-P
14:43:50 <Deewiant> getting the 8th fibonacci number took about as many seconds
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15:06:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes work is slow on cfunge atm
15:07:33 <Deewiant> you worried that I'm secretly rewriting CCBI in Fortran to speed it up? ;-P
15:08:06 <Deewiant> and that comes with some scheme samples, like the factorial, which it compiles by default
15:08:20 <Deewiant> so you can just use that if you're interested
15:08:47 <Deewiant> get a common lisp compiler/interpreter and run it on the source
15:08:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, err did you say scheme or lisp?
15:09:03 <Deewiant> at the bottom of the file under "tests" are what it compiles
15:09:12 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it's written in common lisp
15:09:24 <AnMaster> ok, why not scheme, to make it self hosting ;)
15:09:38 <Deewiant> it'd be too limited for that, anyway :-P
15:10:18 <AnMaster> I think it was installed by maxima
15:11:25 <Deewiant> might be debugging stuff or something
15:12:31 <Deewiant> that's the program it compiles by default
15:13:45 <AnMaster> *** - (NOT "unbound variable") must evaluate to a non-NIL value.
15:14:19 <Deewiant> there's not one there, I'm pasting it
15:14:28 <Deewiant> http://lisp.paste.f-box.org/43
15:16:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok took about 2 seconds to run
15:16:12 <AnMaster> and the code look badly optimized btw
15:16:16 <Deewiant> yep, see if you can speed that up
15:16:45 <Deewiant> profile CFunge and see if there are any bottlenecks
15:16:52 <Deewiant> or if it's still just the same old funge-space
15:16:56 <AnMaster> well I mean the befunge code looks unoptimized
15:17:15 <Deewiant> of course it is, it's auto-generated from a much higher level language :-)
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15:20:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes still funge-space
15:21:06 <AnMaster> it does a lot of wrapping *looks at code*?
15:22:06 <AnMaster> hm hash function got a bit of time too *tries another one*
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15:23:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also the main execute instruction doesn't look too good
15:26:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, in total most time is spent in hash lookup indeed, but per call it is most in ExecuteInstruction
15:28:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how long does CCBI take?
15:29:32 <Deewiant> about 9.7 seconds on windows here
15:30:14 <AnMaster> cfunge does take about 2 seconds on it :)
15:30:31 <Deewiant> but of course we're on different machines so the numbers mean little :-P
15:30:39 <Deewiant> plus I've got about 20% background CPU usage anyway
15:31:33 <AnMaster> <q$>04a*4+21g01g:3+01p11p11g2+1p11g1+1p11g0+1p11g04a*3+21g01g:3+01p11p11g2+1p11g1+1p11g0+1p11g:31p2+1g01g:2+01p11p11g1+1p11g0+1p11g21p31g1+1g>#x;# \-+5*a+3*a+4*a20-0+2;#
15:31:39 <AnMaster> still I wonder wtf it is doing
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15:33:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I think I seen a pretty fast version of fibo in funge somewhere
15:35:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it converted ordinary functional code to CPS
15:35:23 <Deewiant> which, in itself, suggests to me that the result will be complicated, let alone in befunge :-P
15:36:24 <AnMaster> yeah befunge doesn't fit for functional programming
15:38:02 <AnMaster> for example it doesn't use a-f
15:44:52 <SimonRC> I think more inlining would help cut down the x usage
15:48:01 <AnMaster> SimonRC, x isn't such a large problem
15:50:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, for that program keeping track of two bounding boxes of funge space would help
15:50:12 <AnMaster> because first there is a huge line and then a lot of short ones that wrap
15:50:30 <AnMaster> however I got no idea how to detect it from code
15:50:30 <Deewiant> by all means implement some kind of dynamic partitioning :-)
15:50:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I don't know how heh
15:50:57 <AnMaster> but wrapping was quite near the top in that program
15:51:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, still I beat CCBI ;P
15:51:39 <SimonRC> you could partition space into 32*32 blocks
15:52:16 <SimonRC> then for each block, store a bitmap for rows and columns, to say whether there is anything in it...
15:52:21 <AnMaster> still hash function for hash table of fungespace is *worse*
15:52:32 <SimonRC> then you can check 32 cells for code with a simple bit operation
15:53:10 <SimonRC> my optimisation will catch the common case of wrapping when going <v>^
15:53:18 <AnMaster> for cardinal wrapping there could exist one trick
15:53:32 <AnMaster> keep a line length of each line
15:53:59 <SimonRC> AnMaster: mine is a slightly more advanced version of that.
15:54:29 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that's what I originally considered but decided to keep things simple and just kept one big box
15:54:40 <AnMaster> actually just fixing cardinal wrapping to not use the slow backtrack method used for non-cardinal
15:55:00 <AnMaster> the simplified wrapping is atm disabled due to causing an error in mycology
15:55:10 <AnMaster> a infinite loop on string across wrap
15:55:27 * AnMaster goes to try to find what is wrong in that code
15:56:16 <SimonRC> another idea is to store for each instruction the closest and furthest instruction in each direction
15:56:48 <SimonRC> so the code turns itself into a linked list
15:57:03 <SimonRC> but you would have to handle the insertion of new instructions somehow...
15:58:04 <AnMaster> yes that is one thing, the other issue is with fetching instructions
15:58:19 <AnMaster> need to store a struct instead of just a int into the hash table
16:09:15 <okopol> oklotalk's continuation system == the J operator xD
16:09:25 <okopol> okay, i've invented another old invention
16:11:42 <AnMaster> UNDEF: the empty string wrapped around the edge of space >0a-6cf*+p v>1> \v vv v\ >1>v
16:12:33 <SimonRC> with threads, it is possible for an IP to end up trying to traverse a completely empty line
16:12:58 <AnMaster> SimonRC, hm? or with J of SUBR fingerprint
16:13:14 <AnMaster> SimonRC, and it is possible even without threads
16:13:24 <AnMaster> I have seen a program that manage to self destructs itself
16:13:32 <AnMaster> SimonRC, infinite loop possibly
16:13:47 <AnMaster> <SimonRC> with threads, it is possible for an IP to end up trying to traverse a completely empty line
16:13:59 <AnMaster> logically it should be an infinite loop
16:14:25 <AnMaster> as space take no ticks it would lock up any other IP too
16:14:58 <AnMaster> http://quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/
16:16:27 <SimonRC> ah, I just remembered that you can wrap to get the last few instructions to die
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17:41:56 <ehird> I haev 5.3 hearts.
17:42:42 <slereah__> Are you a Space Marine or a Mario brother?
17:42:54 <AnMaster> slereah__, what is a space marine?
17:43:33 <slereah__> The most famous example has two hearts.
17:43:56 <slereah__> Super Mario is a good example of a game that was given a plot after conception.
17:44:09 <slereah__> PLUMBERS. UP TO BATTLE EVIL TURTLES
17:44:43 <AnMaster> marshmallows, "The Amb operator takes some number of expressions (or values if that's simpler in the language) and nondeterministically yields the one"
17:45:04 <AnMaster> "nondeterministically yields the one" <-- the one what?
17:45:12 <AnMaster> marshmallows, I got no clue what it is about
17:46:13 <slereah__> And we all know what happened when they tried to make a movie out of it!
17:46:47 <slereah__> Well, not succeeded, but the movie did came out
17:47:05 <slereah__> http://www.gamesetwatch.com/mariomovie2.jpg
17:47:45 <slereah__> When your game is about plumbers to defeat evil reptiles, it's hard to scrap up enough plot for a movie
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17:48:41 <slereah__> "Although it boasted several big stars, the film was denounced by critics as "cheesy" and lacking any sort of coherent plot. "
17:48:50 <slereah__> Very much in the image of Super Mario itself
17:49:21 <ehird> AnMaster: amb(1,2,3) returns 1 2 or 3
17:49:28 <ehird> if you then do amb() later, it goes back and picks another
17:49:39 <ehird> int foo = amb(1,2,3); if (foo < 2) { amb(); }
17:50:04 <AnMaster> so it's like picking a card from a pack
17:50:14 <AnMaster> and not putting it back before next pick
17:50:20 <ehird> marshmallows: your code free()s an argument, that's bad style
17:50:29 <ehird> AnMaster: well, foo is not 1
17:50:47 <ehird> basically, amb() means 'one of your previous amb()s were wrong, pick another'
17:50:57 <marshmallows> my code is wrong, thanks for pointing that out
17:51:07 <ehird> marshmallows: my pasted one was a LOT simpler..
17:51:35 <ehird> marshmallows: it did
17:51:35 <marshmallows> if you have a simpler one do just replace mine though
17:51:39 <AnMaster> ehird, so it is basically back tracking?
17:51:51 <marshmallows> well I had some verson of amb that didn't work at some point
17:52:12 <ehird> AnMaster: it is a backtracking operator
17:52:30 <ehird> AnMaster: it's a theoretical construct.
17:52:42 <ehird> not useful in practice, really, though i think you can implement prolog with just a few more things
17:52:55 <ehird> AnMaster: ambigious
17:54:35 <ehird> the ruby amb is terrible, marshmallows
17:54:42 <ehird> http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator nicer
17:55:02 <ehird> also the scheme is ugly
17:59:10 <AnMaster> but for real languages C with correct indention (as in the way I like it) is the beauty itself ;P
17:59:38 <slereah__> Does MACHINE CODE count as real? :o
17:59:53 <lament> so i propose that we do get logged by irseek
18:00:07 <lament> just consider http://www.irseek.com/result.php?keywords=brainfuck
18:00:32 <slereah__> <ironfroggy>:brainfuck is not a sane language.
18:00:39 <lament> the key advantage over ircbrowse is that ircbrowse is for people who already know that #esoteric exists
18:00:50 <lament> and in irseek, you search by keyword
18:00:56 <lament> so new people could find us that way
18:02:04 <ehird> lament: irseek is corporate jib-jab :D
18:02:18 <ehird> <insert something about eso-std.org housing a logbot and then proceed to never put it up>
18:08:25 <ehird> libstacksmash is a much nicer name than libcallstack
18:08:30 <ehird> libcstack might be more correct
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20:49:01 <slereah_> The 1 for ` is really not intuitive at all D:
20:49:10 <slereah_> Because it DOES NOT ACTUALLY WORK AS A GENERAL RULE
20:50:18 <AnMaster> slereah_, well try another language then?
20:50:42 <slereah_> Well, still, I'd like to understand!
20:51:47 <slereah_> But the problem is, 00 is also k, but 10000 isn't `kk
20:52:25 <slereah_> The 1 = ` only works if you use 11100 and 11111000
20:52:49 <slereah_> Although I'm starting to doubt my interpreter, since the "shortest non-terminating program" terminates.
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22:04:45 -!- ehird has set topic: #esoteric - Extending Tetrationfuck to the reals with magnets, cauliflour and tpyos extended over the reals with tetr. | Logs: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | The Esoteric File Archive: http://esolangs.org/files/.
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22:22:16 <ehird> slereah_: In the butt?
22:22:54 <slereah_> Although "Bear Force One" is a contender in gayness.
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