< 1206057609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: obfuscation is something you do to code, you don't usually call languages that < 1206057610 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1206057616 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most are just minimal < 1206057621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but false does nested functions, and suchamathing. < 1206057636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you mean by obfuscation here < 1206057654 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just read up False on the wiki < 1206057658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it looks like line noise? ofc it does, if you want it to < 1206057670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to read too, ages since i did < 1206057676 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-58-116.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1206057680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : slereah__: obfuscation is something you do to code, you don't usually call languages that < 1206057680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1206057683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge? < 1206057691 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1206057710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that it looks like line noise? ofc it does, if you want it to <-- oh we are talking about perl? < 1206057714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge might be an obfuscated language < 1206057716 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1206057724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has an entry in esolang wiki, i think :) < 1206057730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206057731 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is < 1206057738 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Perl < 1206057746 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the follow up has not arrived! < 1206057754 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good one for J or K? < 1206057803 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making substitution rules in Schönfinkel's combinator is hard. < 1206057827 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems it's hard to replace variables when there aren't variables anymore :o < 1206057905 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, what is that perl program? It just prints 30. < 1206057932 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a metaphore, apparently! < 1206057955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it actually works! < 1206057956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!?!?! < 1206057976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it works or not, but it prints 30 < 1206057995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of stuff which prints 30 doesn't work. < 1206058038 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Linux have a Perl interpreter? < 1206058054 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just typed that in the console shell, and it's doing nothing :o < 1206058058 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even an error message < 1206058094 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah@Vixem:~$ perl -wlne'END{print$n}eof&&$n++;/([^<]+)/i&&$n--' * < 1206058094 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :929 < 1206058096 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1206058099 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't 30. < 1206058103 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't 30 at all! < 1206058141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spot a regex matching the contents of the title < 1206058152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really know perl < 1206058191 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I really don't know Perl < 1206058200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i :) < 1206058204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1206058206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1206058222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm such an egoist i like to type an "i" and just look at it < 1206058228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i forget to delete it < 1206058247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins at the censoring: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ah4pBKeFFHxVdUWNrNoikqGIxQt.;_ylv=3?qid=20080320073519AA7zuRZ < 1206058255 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is moby-***** connection to romanticism?" < 1206058733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i think that perl program counts the number of files in the current directory, minus the number of lines in those files containing something matching /<title>([^<]+)/i < 1206058777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! useful. < 1206058802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure someone has needed it at some point, since it was invented :) < 1206058824 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not invented, discovered! < 1206058848 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't write programs that you need to post them on the esowiki < 1206058877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: no parse < 1206058886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1206058923 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut? < 1206058945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imagine somebody looking with a telescope into a vast universe of perl one-liners. "Hey! That one could be useful for something, one day! Let's write it down!" < 1206058952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: your sentence is hard to get the meaning of, and possibly ungrammatical < 1206058971 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program that you actually need XOR program that you post on the esowiki < 1206058986 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, forgot the turnstile at the beginning of the sentence. < 1206059015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turnstile? is may client censoring characters i wonder < 1206059032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brings up the logs < 1206059082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, still incomprehensible in proper unicode < 1206059137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: sounds like Erdos's big book < 1206059150 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erdos had a book? < 1206059172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he had a metaphor of a Big Book that contained all interesting mathematics < 1206059208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God has the Big Book, the beautiful proofs of mathematical theorems are listed here." . Paul Erdos < 1206059261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the Perl book we might want to ask the competition instead. < 1206059289 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me of the reasoning that people should be able to copyright numbers. < 1206059300 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large ones with no easy pattern, at least < 1206059317 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a huge pile of sand... < 1206059348 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one grain of that sand is enscribed a novel that will sell 100,000 copies, if published < 1206059374 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you find that grain of sand and publish the novel, you should have the right to the money < 1206059407 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because though you didn't create it, you did a hell of a lot of work and society benefited from it < 1206059423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the analogy with copyrighting the numbers that represent movies etc should be obvious < 1206059448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a good argument for copyrighting. That's a good argument for _some_ form of compensation. < 1206059448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it was fairly obvious without the analogy too :) < 1206059459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a number can represent anything < 1206059466 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes < 1206059480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we always simultaneously copyright the way in which to interpret the number < 1206059501 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1206059523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have an infinite number of numbers representing a certain book < 1206059534 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1206059561 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. That reminds me. < 1206059577 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once saw one of those IQ-test type of question < 1206059589 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the following number of a sequence. < 1206059598 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then thought "This is fucking stupid". < 1206059610 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And found a handful of numbers that fitted. < 1206059639 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1206059662 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with polynomial curves, you can make any next number fit < 1206059679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A given IQ-test only works within a range of IQs i think. you mustn't be so smart as to overanalyze it... < 1206059691 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following number of <1,4,9,16> was then 27, 90, 27 again, 31, 17, 81, 20.25 < 1206059701 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "any number", "any set" < 1206059703 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 25. < 1206059750 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The solutions were the following : http://paste-it.net/7475 < 1206059759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is rather silly. 25 _is_ the obvious answer. < 1206059817 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was rather amused that p(n) + f(n-1) fitted the description :D < 1206059864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not < 1206060144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just toy programs have been written in False, the list of programs in the distribution includes various useful convertion utilities, a compression program, Life, an expression evaluator, a module ripper, queens, tic-tac-toe, a html-table generator, and, probably the biggest False program ever, a complete working BreakOut clone. < 1206060148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakout :o < 1206060170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these people... < 1206060178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should make something fun too < 1206060190 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A party? < 1206060213 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does false have anything that can model a TM tape? < 1206060267 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it only had 26 variables and the stack < 1206060284 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you can peek arbitrarily far down the stack, that isn't very nice. < 1206060284 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished a Prolog interpreter in Scheme < 1206060292 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want it? < 1206060308 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not < 1206060314 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/57253,6/raw < 1206060347 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION failed at coding a WAM a couple times.. :( < 1206060433 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vixey`: "WAM"? < 1206060480 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the typical VM people compile Prolog, the first Prolog compiler was VAM based < 1206060483 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops WAM < 1206060488 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VAM is a vastly different beast < 1206060525 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1206060527 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile Prolog to* < 1206060548 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code is really slow for making magic squares :/ < 1206060576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, make breakout in befunge! < 1206060599 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge lacks non-blocking input < 1206060602 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can actually do interactive realtime graphic stuff with befunge? < 1206060795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vixey`, sure < 1206060801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vixey`, use a fingerprint < 1206060814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vixey`, there is one for ncurses < 1206060817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work well < 1206060890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, so with NCRS fingerprint you get non-blocking indeed :D < 1206060903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, and clients may have that anyway < 1206060909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1206060912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreters < 1206060914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tired < 1206060929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, 1y will tell you what kind of IO is used < 1206060944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NCRS will always be non-blocking < 1206061869 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-192-106.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1206061989 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMeph: yo < 1206062012 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Hey < 1206063311 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1206064905 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes < 1206065059 0 :vixey`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :vixey < 1206065577 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1206066156 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : an Algol implementation with the J operator would be cool < 1206066190 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has nobody implemented ISWIM yet? :S < 1206066278 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" "90" "26* v < 1206066278 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p < < 1206066295 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ program to freeze fully-compliant befunge-98 interpreters < 1206066735 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206070200 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1206070205 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206072318 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1206074573 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1206077784 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1206074168-preview4.png < 1206078130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206078592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new page? < 1206078984 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1206079021 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about going back and reorganizing the panel layouts a bit- I think the current format is a little too rigid and boring < 1206079036 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for now, all bets are off on page numbers < 1206079125 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, goodnight folks < 1206079148 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1206082989 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1206083405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1206086399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1206086400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1206086800 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all < 1206086833 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1206089501 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1206091262 0 :rutlov!n=voltur@217-68-167-217.dynamic.primacom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1206091742 0 :rutlov!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1206093877 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)" < 1206102993 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1206105370 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1206105804 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1206106840 0 :Taggard!i=andy@colchester-lug/vanity/taggard-is-awesome JOIN :#esoteric < 1206108295 0 :Taggard!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1206109023 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1206109083 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1206109821 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206110255 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Check out http://yr.judofyr.net now < 1206110260 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added some more data :) < 1206110417 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1206110840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests < 1206110870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits while browser is locked up for about 30 seconds after clicking add button < 1206110890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, apart from the slow speed it looks very nice < 1206110910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, my connection is 8 mbit down / 1 mbit up so it isn't that slow < 1206110910 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it sucks to bridge :( < 1206110924 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather the connection to the server < 1206110926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADSL from Swedish Tele2 < 1206110955 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asks for data -> server fetches from api.yr.no -> server sends them to you -> you receive them < 1206110968 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION want cross-site Ajax! < 1206110972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: the speech bubble goes under the "weather everywhere" title < 1206110984 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I know < 1206110995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that nice for us scandinavians < 1206111005 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1206111008 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix it < 1206111044 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves Firebug < 1206111049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, what about google maps bit then? < 1206111073 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the maps shouldn't load slow, or that's not my fault < 1206111084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, odd btw, google maps fails to load some of the bits, there are some grey rectangles in misc places < 1206111094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one near the top and one just in the middle < 1206111102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooming in and then out again fixes it < 1206111108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting a long time doesn't < 1206111118 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the map won't load in Safari < 1206111127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, not safari, konqueror < 1206111131 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooming in and out again fixes that also < 1206111142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, it doesn't fix it always btw < 1206111146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but often it does < 1206111156 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: noted. just wanted to say my problems < 1206111169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh changing to sattelite mode helps all the time < 1206111191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the satellite data over Örebro area is crappy < 1206111221 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're interested in Örebro :P < 1206114029 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1206116802 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206116847 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1206118013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, just random, and not too far away from where I live (I live out in the middle of nowhere though, but Örebro is the closest large city) < 1206118140 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206120651 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1206122403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... my entire terminal window is just full of PINGs, PONGs and Sgeo's join message < 1206122437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone care to start a conversation? < 1206122566 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-57-202.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1206122592 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! ;) < 1206122608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: hello! < 1206122623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you logreading, or was that just good timing? < 1206122635 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good timing I suppose < 1206122642 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no logs for me - yet :P < 1206122644 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1206122661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had got bored of a terminal-full of PINGs and PONGs and asked someone to say something < 1206122689 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lol. Well then, fate has it's means :P < 1206122705 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-82-215.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1206122718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello slereah_ < 1206122728 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1206122755 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1206122762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a certain number of people inside and outside an IRC channel < 1206122778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of which likes each other person a certain amount, and has a certain boredness < 1206122779 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a side note, any opinions http://rafb.net/p/5Uodtk56.html ) < 1206122812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: given that bored people are more likely to say hello, and people are more likely to say hello to people they like, and people join and part at random, create an esolang < 1206122827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delayed, but if I started the conversation, you know what it would be about.. < 1206122828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1206122885 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, now there's an idea. Not sure how one could influence branching/looping if people (variables?) leave and appear at random though < 1206122903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: actually, I've been meaning to ask you about that < 1206122911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1206122916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way in PSOX to read from multiple input sources at once? < 1206122930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could switch between file descriptors < 1206122934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. read user input and a socket simulataneously, and get the first message from either? < 1206122940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1206122948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently, no < 1206122951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that would require knowing which one would be next to send a message < 1206122968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of ability to do that is holding up my INTERCAL IRC client < 1206122971 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1206123001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you're writing an INTERCAL IRC client w/ PSOX? < 1206123002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool! < 1206123059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: I've looked at your paste, it looks interesting but I don't really understand the syntax < 1206123086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was thinking of implementing the CLC-INTERCAL syscall library using C-INTERCAL's ffi < 1206123108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so not PSOX, you're wondering if PSOX solved a problem? < 1206123123 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, probably entirely my fault, I didn't really intend this so much as a publication, but an internal doccy for my own benefits. Would you like me to explain, or would you prefer to leave it as a mystery? :P < 1206123153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: an explanation would be interesting; Sgeo: I was wondering how PSOX handled the situation < 1206123175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because it's quite a complicated thing to do in many languages < 1206123183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant syscall is 'select' < 1206123196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in POSIX < 1206123235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all I know is that Windows select() can only use things from Winsock < 1206123250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So incorporating select() into PSOX would be problematic < 1206123260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The only reason I know that is from the Python docs) < 1206123279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Windows isn't very good at selecting by default < 1206123298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually a big problem, though, because some way to select is necessary to write an IRC client < 1206123315 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lets see. Look at every chunk of code as a function. It all returns a value of some kind or another. Whether the value is stored, where it is stored and for how long is entirely up to the user. the basic structure is this {Operation} {Variable/Constant} ( {arguments/code} ) {imperative/questionative/no signal} < 1206123335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's either that, or using a second IRC username to repeatedly ping the one you're logged in on, thus ensuring that the first one gets data at an acceptable rate, and using a separate process for input from the user) < 1206123357 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the various operations are listed in the file, then, the variable is a variable of the form {lower case letter}{number} eg z7643 or a2 < 1206123382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I just thought of a simpler way to select, which is to use three processes, two in input loops that communicate to the third asynchronously) < 1206123382 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, the arguments may be a list of variables seperated by a comma, or more code in the same form < 1206123398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suppose asynchnorous reading would also work? < 1206123403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something for PSOX 1.1 ... < 1206123419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to the nested pattern that things like + and - create? < 1206123425 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1206123432 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if that was aimed at me) < 1206123434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that works but uses up more CPU time than it ought to < 1206123447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: it was < 1206123471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having two conversations in the same channel can be confusing at times, though < 1206123484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if other people say something immediately after you've made a typo < 1206123499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to get better at touch-typing to do this properly... < 1206123511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1206123513 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, we can assign a10 to 65 through the following < 1206123514 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 65 (a1) < 1206123514 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tells us to use the assignment operator, and apply 65 to a1 using it. This does infact return something (nil) but it is un-important so we can disregard it < 1206123530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't touch type < 1206123546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to hunt-n-peck, but I've done that for so many years that it's now know-and-peck < 1206123547 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I made a typo too ;) < 1206123549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello SimonRC < 1206123555 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1206123586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: many languages with assignment statements return the value that was assigned < 1206123596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/assignment statements/assignment expressions/ < 1206123625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is slightly different, and returns the variable that was assigned to < 1206123638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes to much the same thing, except in cases like ($a=4)++ < 1206123642 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an assignment is an lvalue? < 1206123657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1206123669 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmm... yeah, something worth considering, but It doesn't really matter because you can do multiple assignments using lists. :64(a1,a2,a3) in place of grabbing the returned value like this- :(:65(a1))(a2) etc < 1206123692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the most famous lines of C code went like this: < 1206123703 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op, value, variable is a funny order to put it in < 1206123705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(*dest++=*src++); < 1206123712 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yup < 1206123714 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1206123717 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yup < 1206123727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a one-liner strcpy implementation < 1206123735 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah, but it's nice and different for a change ;) < 1206123737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which relies on the return value of = < 1206123750 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: it's a bit forth-like < 1206123759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth has value, var, op < 1206123785 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm afraid you have me there, I've never really heard of Forth before (well, I've *heard* , but that's as far as it goes) < 1206123809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when concatenative languages have variables, they generally go value, [var], op < 1206123815 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asi523: I should just probably nod :P < 1206123823 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the earleir c line < 1206123840 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you must understand < 1206123842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that difficult to understand < 1206123855 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1206123879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ptr++ returns the memory location that ptr points to, and then increments ptr < 1206123891 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh, aaah < 1206123896 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees the light < 1206123905 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ingenious :) < 1206123911 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, ++ increments pointer after evaluation but before the next sequence point < 1206123973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the whole 'sequence points' thing, which fugged up comp.lang.c for months despite being in the FAQ < 1206124009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people kept on asking about the infamous statement i=i++; (which doesn't actually do anything defined, because you're trying to assign two different values to i simultaneously) < 1206124039 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1206124071 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or things like (i++ * i++) < 1206124072 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't it be broken down recursively. i = i + 1 forever onwards ? < 1206124092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defined to be undefined behaviour in the C standard < 1206124105 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a good way of showing the ambiguity: < 1206124109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that a C compiler can do anything it likes, even if it doesn't make logical sense, on encountering the statement < 1206124132 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see. Hrmm... interesting that. Predefined ambiguity ;) < 1206124133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most compilers either do nothing or add 1 to i < 1206124143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can it actually decide to do *neither*? < 1206124147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i didn't know < 1206124155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1206124159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: most languages have that < 1206124168 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if the compiler keeps a flag on each variable that is set if the variable must be incremented after the current expression, it would be expected to only increment once in the expression (i++ * i++) < 1206124172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the archetypal example is 'demons flying out of the user's nose' < 1206124182 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1206124182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no known compiler does that, but it's allowed by the Standard < 1206124185 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? Shows where I've been (glances over shoulder at rock) < 1206124205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1206124212 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that for a while gcc would launch nethack if it encountered an unknown #pragma, too < 1206124225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was any pragma, if I remember < 1206124230 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1206124238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because #pragma can do anything as long as the implementation documents it < 1206124242 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1206124251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think nethack was something like third in the list of things it tried to do < 1206124265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it first attempted to start Emacs running a Towers of Hanoi simulation < 1206124268 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1206124286 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome :) < 1206124294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the nethack was a fallback for if Emacs wasn't installed < 1206124331 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=307 < 1206124339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a good comics strip generally < 1206124340 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1206124356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I just looked it up, it was nethack, then rogue, then towers of Hanoi on Emacs < 1206124377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if all of those failed, it printed "You are in a maze of twisty compiler features, all different." < 1206124406 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome comic there :) < 1206124613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does anyone here know if it's possible to open a write handle to a socket with one process, and a read to the same socket with a different process < 1206124629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, connecting to freenode on port 6667, but having one process writing to it and another process reading? < 1206124656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who here did J? < 1206124666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it faxathisia < 1206124718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was talking about it a lot, but I'm not sure whether they used it < 1206124747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt they did < 1206124767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is inclined to agree < 1206124782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall it was mostly K they were interested in < 1206124794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i supposed to say "were" or " they was" :P < 1206124809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the latter <3 < 1206124816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually says 'they were' along the lines of 'you were' < 1206124836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer 'themself' in the singular context < 1206124852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarrr < 1206124998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two problems with me learning new languages are that i always have to read all the documentation before i even start considering using the language, and that i usually never learn to use the interp/compiler < 1206125022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god there's a lot of foreigns < 1206125084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you read all the C-INTERCAL documentation, you would know how to use the compiler < 1206125090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent ages writing it < 1206125112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's decent as a reference source as well, although not as good at being a tutorial < 1206125276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll put intercal on my list of implementing-something-in < 1206125383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already Unlambda and Befunge-93 interps in INTERCAL < 1206125469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no brainfuck? < 1206125496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suprisingly, no < 1206125519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an unlimited number of stacks available, so a brainfuck interp shouldn't be very difficult < 1206125550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make on as my test project, well, try to make on at least < 1206125557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one < 1206125569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dealing with the I/O model is likely to be one of the harder parts < 1206125601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, http://intercal.freeshell.org has the manuals for CLC-INTERCAL and C-INTERCAL, and downloads for the implementations < 1206125617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't intercal day, this is jayday < 1206125629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of other references, but they're mostly out of date < 1206125647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to write an IRC bot in Thutu < 1206126178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"for testing, will be back soon" < 1206126205 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206127374 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206127612 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1206128277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... why is it so hard to connect a program's stderr and stdout to telnet using shellscript? < 1206128366 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1206129117 0 :thutubot!n=thutubot@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206129131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\hello < 1206129148 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1206129159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it doesn't work < 1206129162 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it hard? < 1206129179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I'm having problems linking the bot to freenode in both directions < 1206129190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also I've probably made a mistake in one of my regexps < 1206129200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\quit < 1206129224 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1206129273 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use a named pipe? < 1206129311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that, but it didn't work for some reason < 1206129333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the info went down the named pipe OK, but perl wasn't reading telnet's output for some unknown reason, not even when I piped them together directly < 1206129361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe telnet was sending control codes on stdout that shouldn't have been involved, or something like that < 1206129363 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1206129369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it just wasn't flushing its output < 1206129391 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe you should rewrite e telnet app... ;-) < 1206129483 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1206130057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love j already < 1206130088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, isn't it? < 1206130220 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206130387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun stuff, although oklotalk still would own its ass if only i managed to write an efficient interp for it < 1206130396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think it would < 1206130431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk is very much like J, K and APL, but with pattern matching and OOP if you want the use them < 1206130449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exactly OOP... message passing < 1206130498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so general you can easily write functions for inheritance and suh < 1206130499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*such < 1206130509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive regexps need a proper sort of replace ability < 1206130522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1206130526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace? < 1206130557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive here means you can do x = (.*); y = x|a x c? and such? < 1206130560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just plain recursion < 1206130564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1206130568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? :) < 1206130596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my example was an example of just being able to call other regexes, whereas recursion would just be calling the current regex < 1206130611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably didn't come through < 1206130625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1206130642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my example was an example of being able to call any regex from inside a regex < 1206130650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a recursive regex lets you use part of the regex inside itself < 1206130661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1206130663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of it? < 1206130702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can tag a certain place in its parse tree and reuse it, like reg = X@(a | b) | (X)+ < 1206130709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206130714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a regex to match nested angle brackets could be (|<$1>$1) < 1206130765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a string consists of nested angle brackets if either it's empty, or it's a string consisting of angle brackets surrounding a string consisting of nested angle brackets followed by a string consisting of nested angle brackets < 1206130767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 meaning what exactly < 1206130815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, $1 means the whole thing < 1206130838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just $1 should mean the *matched* thing, not the actual regex < 1206130863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... whatever it matched, we'll call that M, would have to be of the form M = <M> < 1206130870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is impossible, unless the string is infinite < 1206130881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be totally clueless here, just wondering < 1206130886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Cyclexa (my work-in-progress regex language) < 1206130893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 means the code of group 1 < 1206130901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1206130901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas \1 means the text matched by group 1 < 1206130906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, i see < 1206130928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (|<$1>$1) < 1206130933 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1206130939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it have infinite strings and (|<\1>\1)? :) < 1206130962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1206130969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\w < 1206130970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what happens if you put \1 inside group 1 itslef < 1206130977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cardinals < 1206130979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1206130980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega < 1206130982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddyacallit < 1206131009 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1206131026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that should match the string infinity*"<" ++ infinity*">", for instance < 1206131060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, could you write the original example again? I got slightly confused due to the way my low-tech IRC client works < 1206131074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(|<$1>$1) < 1206131076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one? < 1206131082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1206131102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to (|<(|<$2>$2)>(|<$3>$3)) < 1206131106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1206131123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1206131134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, one of Cyclexa's features is that it's possible to match antitext < 1206131143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1206131151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of removing text from the input string, you add text to the input string < 1206131168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, and one extra feature, allow Cyclexa to be TC with an empty input string < 1206131214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably even with just one regex < 1206131226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is just one regex < 1206131245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1206131268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do something like "don't match this at all" < 1206131269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a nop < 1206131275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax for antitext is, e.g. (abc)^ adds (abc) to the group < 1206131281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you could make regex variables like that, quite neatly < 1206131284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, it depends on exactly what you want < 1206131287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1206131302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(abc)^+ does nothing to the input string < 1206131306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could have all your regexps in $n's < 1206131314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without having to declare them as you use the < 1206131316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"declare" < 1206131339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for predeclaring groups, doing something like (''(group)(group)(group))? would do < 1206131351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' is like fail in Prolog; it never matches anything < 1206131352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''? < 1206131357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1206131362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not _ < 1206131364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206131369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how that's good. < 1206131379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just felt it was a failure character :P < 1206131380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an empty character class < 1206131392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[abc] becomes 'abc' in Cyclexa < 1206131414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the apostrophes are cleverer than []; 'ab+c' matches a, c, or any number of bs < 1206131414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually pretty neat, i always hated that in regexes < 1206131430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having nestable characters for an unnestable group < 1206131455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a(bc)d' matches a, d, or bc < 1206131468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is equivalent to (a|bc|d) < 1206131477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1206131484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, (??a|bc|d) because the group shouldn't be given a group number (that's what the ?? does) < 1206131503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I overload a lot of characters, particularly ^$+*?\ < 1206131514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can mean many different things in different contexts < 1206131524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does (??a (b c)) still give the inner group a number? < 1206131528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't like character sequences that have no sensible meaning < 1206131531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1206131548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also give a group a particular number like (?4this) < 1206131557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have ?!?!?!!?!? for nor giving nested ()'s group number either < 1206131559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1206131565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*numbers < 1206131581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that would be (?^nonumber(nonumbereither)) < 1206131594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be more orthogonal, because the ^ has a meaning of 'not' in many group modifiers < 1206131601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ? sets a group number < 1206131628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also, ^ is one of the characters that have a "nesting" feeling in them, i mean, in my head < 1206131646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually exactly that of unnesting stuff < 1206131667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that amuses me is that the ^ and $ are implemented completely differently to each other in the Cyclexa regex ^abc$ < 1206131668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, because of how it looks, and the fact it does that in oklotalk, now that come tpo i think of it :) < 1206131670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1206131681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $ means 'only match at end of string' in this context < 1206131698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ^ means 'don't put an implied .* at the start of the program' in this context < 1206131728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you switched their meanings? < 1206131764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a ^ at the start of a regex still anchors it to the start of the string, and a $ at the end still anchors it to the end of the string < 1206131773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just implemented in really different ways < 1206131792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Cyclexa basically treats a string as a stack of characters, whose top is at the start of the string < 1206131880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/951922 < 1206131893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I've done so far on the Cyclexa spec and implementation < 1206131909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the implementation isn't done enough to even be able to interpret a single program < 1206131918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far it's just the parser, which was hard enough to do < 1206132026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is C<...> for cyclexa? < 1206132029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1206132041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that your "cyclexa regex" bracketing < 1206132061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because strings of +*?^ often tokenize in many different ways < 1206132061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are precedence rules to say which way is correct < 1206132061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's POD < 1206132061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually ask before reading the next line explaining it. < 1206132065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a markup language normally used to document Perl programs < 1206132076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to <tt>...</tt> in HTML < 1206132088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically just marking the code as code < 1206132098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c < 1206132146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1206132146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases, a single Cyclexa expression can completely < 1206132146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1206132146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate one language to another, although this is unusual. < 1206132153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what prevents it? < 1206132175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the translation is often too hard to manage by regex alone < 1206132184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, imagine compiling BASIC into C < 1206132190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you mean, in practise. < 1206132200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to figure out which type each variable was, and add declarations < 1206132229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, but you *can* do it for any language, right? < 1206132242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Cyclexa is TC < 1206132256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean you can do any translation, necessarily < 1206132261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can? < 1206132261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in theory it can do any compilation from one language to another that's theoretically possible < 1206132270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some translations aren't possible < 1206132281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as TwoDucks -> Malbolge, for instance < 1206132298 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME TRAVELLING MALBOLGE < 1206132301 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1206132323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant, can you do any translation you can do in, say, perl? < 1206132348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcness doesn't exactly say you can, it comes to questions about io < 1206132365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1206132372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's BF-complete as well, for that matter < 1206132375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyclexa programs take a string and return a string, basically? < 1206132381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1206132385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yeah, that's a better way to put it < 1206132394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always forget we already have that concept too < 1206132395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1206132416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an input command < 1206132430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's going to be some way to do output too, but I haven't yet figured out the details < 1206132472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is there a purely functional language, that does io by having two infinite lists, popping heads from which, and putting heads to which, perform input and output < 1206132482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you'd carry those around and at recursion, do io < 1206132487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly pure < 1206132491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't need monads < 1206132498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically a monad that you've defined there < 1206132502 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1206132505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1206132507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with an explicit monad chain < 1206132508 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zing! < 1206132510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1206132511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isee < 1206132531 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need to do for a purely functional language is to print the expression at every step! < 1206132539 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you only have to read the expression! < 1206132547 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly understand it. < 1206132547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i see no explicit infinite input list in haskell. < 1206132563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's the monad chain for the IO monad < 1206132569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206132571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1206132586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate this world < 1206132590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monad chain is hidden by monads, though, because otherwise you could perform IO twice on an earlier monad chain, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense < 1206132599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1206132607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what i was thinking for the lists < 1206132614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiding them exactly like that < 1206132621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you could've invented monads" < 1206132654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda has only one monad < 1206132664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose chain is the stack that all commands operate on < 1206132676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so despite being purely functional, all commands run in a strict order < 1206132824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just realized that's a real fuckload of text :P < 1206132835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read cyclexa later... < 1206132907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who wants to help me implement it, feel free; it's really difficult! < 1206132933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes that his first J project! < 1206132935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or not < 1206133203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206133217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should make a turing-complete Tree using a new construct called "seed" < 1206133235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1206133239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno :P < 1206133248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack is a bit non-tree < 1206133256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want something like a worm holding the stack... < 1206133261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206133287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like languages with real life origin in syntax to have real life semantics too, as much as possible < 1206133362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Receives two characters as input and outputs the greater of the two inputs < 1206133362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1206133362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # | < 1206133362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \<| ~~ < 1206133362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |/ < 1206133363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : v | < 1206133365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \| v < 1206133367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |/ < 1206133369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get this < 1206133374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first v -> stack = A < 1206133378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second v -> stack = A B < 1206133384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ -> stack = A B B < 1206133391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ -> stack = A B B B < 1206133399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then <, which is false < 1206133403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so outputs B < 1206133419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me slightly of HOMESPRING < 1206133455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me how that works, if you have the 30 seconds < 1206133466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it fucked up? < 1206133478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how HOMESPRING works? < 1206133496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrrrrr i mean, how that *program* works < 1206133501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Tree < 1206133510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either < 1206133545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tslil? interesting name < 1206133591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ? < 1206133599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my seed idea was something like dropping seeds that grow a similar tree, and start new execution < 1206133624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly not the exact same tree, you'd have to do something real clever to keep semantics intact :P < 1206133632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: creator of the lang = tslil < 1206133668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1206135221 0 :boily!n=boily@modemcable062.255-37-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1206135261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello boily < 1206135424 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1206135496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is saying hello to people when they join in the hope of resparking a conversation < 1206135649 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... uh... how are you? (i know it's not much for a conversation, but it's a start!) < 1206135659 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y HULO THAR < 1206135659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, but a little tired < 1206135671 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name is Epic Fail Guy, and I am here to ruin your esolang. < 1206135691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleareah_: I'd be interested to see how you would go about doing that < 1206135712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finished an 8-month project on Wednesday < 1206135730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now I have time to waste doing things like using telnet as an IRC client < 1206135740 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1206135804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm typing in IRC commands by hand < 1206135828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one reason why I'm anxious to start a conversation, because repeatedly PONGing is boring < 1206135843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dccapdot.htm okay J owns. < 1206135891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there are a lot of irssi users here < 1206135906 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversation starter: i was recently thinking about an assembly-based esolang. < 1206135924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly's reasonably esoteric as it is, so that might be a good starting point < 1206135934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most OISCs can be seen as assembly-based esolangs < 1206136100 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about your remark that assembly is obfuscated enough by itself, you are right. < 1206136143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like some of the DSP assemblies that have commands that do crazily specific things < 1206136150 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as? < 1206136175 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates 8086 assembly, and my homeworks. < 1206136175 0 :Deformati!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Deformative < 1206136185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add ax to bx, when ax = 4, bx = 2 and cx < 100 < 1206136187 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-58-116.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1206136198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise divide 5/8, and lose result < 1206136200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One I used had a command to multiply two registers and add the result to an accumulator, load another two numbers from memory into those registers, increment the pointers that said which address to load those two numbers from, and also store another accumulator into memory elsewhere < 1206136213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206136216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol awesome < 1206136217 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one! < 1206136222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what a pointless task < 1206136230 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what is it used? < 1206136236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one i said? < 1206136258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and if adding to the acccumulator gave a value above 4294967295, it saturated at that value < 1206136265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1206136281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: it's useful in doing a Fast Fourier Transform < 1206136290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in taking the product of two vectors < 1206136374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had lots of variants too; for instance, one subtracted the two numbers being loaded from memory and stored their difference in a register, rather than storing both of them < 1206136387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was useful for calculating the length of a vector < 1206136413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instruction looked kind of ridiculous in the assembly code because it took so many arguments < 1206136435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it wasn't restricted to just incrementing the pointers; it could add or subtract 1, 2, or 3 < 1206136519 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bus time < 1206136521 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1206136522 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WeeChat 0.2.6" < 1206136790 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1206136812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Tritonio < 1206137792 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1206137857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan < 1206137866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found a very nice tool, helps you find holes in your structs due to alignment issues: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/acme/pahole.git;a=summary sadly it seems you have to use git, can't find it anywhere else < 1206137905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah you are? < 1206137906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1206137907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1206137954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any sensible way to write an IRC client without the ability to select() < 1206137971 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a crazy way? < 1206137972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, intercal lacks that? < 1206137974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a method involving three processes and two usernames, but it isn't sensible < 1206137985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why two usernames? < 1206137989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacked even the ability to read its own output for several decades < 1206138039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crazy way involves one thread to interact with the user, one to read from the server and write things back, and one to repeatedly ping the thread that's writing to the server on a second username so that it writes data every now and then < 1206138053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repeated pinging prevents the need to select < 1206138057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1206138095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok that is plain crazy, well that is also why I couldn't do a sane irc client in bash, but it is fully possible to do a bot in bash < 1206138121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree; I tried to write a bot in Thutu, but it wasn't getting messages back from the server for some reason < 1206138139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd used a named pipe to connect my program to telnet in a loop, but the communication only seemed to be one way < 1206138145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue however remains, that to do periodic events I do read with timeout of 5 seconds, and then look for periodic events that should have happened the during the last 5 seconds < 1206138153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or telnet was sending control chars that confused Thutu < 1206138240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get that problem in your bashbot? < 1206138442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1206138489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can use: socat, gnutls-cli, netcat, openssl sclient, /dev/tcp (fake device built in into bash, selectable at compile time of bash) < 1206138498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so called transport modules < 1206138501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to add new ones < 1206138531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so you didn't use telnet < 1206138549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just defines a set of methods: "get list of supported features and check deps installed", connect, disconnect, get line, send line < 1206138550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1206138575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike normal envbot modules you can only load one transport module < 1206138586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not unload or reload at runtime < 1206138627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1206138653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :envbot is very advanced, and has the potential of getting to the same level as, say, supybot < 1206138665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from multiple networks < 1206138759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaveth" < 1206138778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just have to add a select() syscall to INTERCAL < 1206138788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first I'll have to get the ffi working so I can implement it < 1206138840 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F9CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1206138881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about poll? < 1206138907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait that just does one fd < 1206138918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't help at all < 1206138929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polling isn't really much use if you don't have the syscall for that either < 1206138941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah true < 1206139064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about doing async IO? < 1206139071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aio_read/write/whatever < 1206139103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or set the async flag on the file descriptor < 1206139116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the dearth of syscalls affects me again < 1206139125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dearth? < 1206139131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only something like 7 in CLC-INTERCAL, and I haven't implemented any in C-INTERCAL yet < 1206139137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that work on anything but linux, setting async flag I mean < 1206139141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I used the wrong word < 1206139149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_NONBLOCK is POSIX IIRC < 1206139481 0 :okofolor!n=oklofok@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1206139496 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl, switching back to linux is starting to feel like a good idea, my j interp crashed, took me like 5 minutes to get my computer running again :D < 1206139509 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on vista now) < 1206139551 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :okopol < 1206139557 0 :marshmallows!n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1206139575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1206139618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks up a stray 'l' from the floor. wonder who it belongs to? < 1206139643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any idea why there are stray lowercase letters on the floor? < 1206139656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess someone must have lost one, ais523 < 1206139702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lais523, doesn't look like < 1206139713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1206139776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/gWAc2P69.html <-- interesting tool that pahole < 1206139788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think anyone called me loerjan since primary school or thereabouts < 1206139849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what is that? it looks Befunge-related < 1206139876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes the struct is, but the output is from pahole, a tool that find holes in your structs due to alignment issues < 1206139890 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I wrote that < 1206139892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :developed by linux kernel people originally < 1206139898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, !? < 1206139900 0 :okopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could you hand that to me? < 1206139910 0 :okopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just insert it yourself < 1206139927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives okopol the 'l'. Be careful with it! < 1206139934 0 :okopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah, i've done this before < 1206139937 0 :okopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1206139987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, LanMaster sounds sorta cool < 1206139997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1206140002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was the wrong case anyhow < 1206140015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMalster sounds like "an molester" < 1206140036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, you wrote what? < 1206140073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no not marshmallows again. < 1206140079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oerjan: why the "l" discussion? < 1206140085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is such a jerk, not like that nice guy faxathisia < 1206140149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklopol lost an 'l' a while ago < 1206140163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1206140183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately it was recovered < 1206140212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure that was the right 'l'? There's several over here that could fit < 1206140221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1206140263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, none of them have the right black metal look < 1206140332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a relief < 1206140339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION someone left two dots here, they look like they would fit you oerjan  < 1206140351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :örjan maybe? < 1206140356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1206140366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you want the dash over there then? < 1206140378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :örjan usually leaves his dots home, they're strictly forbidden here < 1206140384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1206140386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1206140391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I think he want an Ø not an Ö < 1206140392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so, clashes with the e < 1206140399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just came across this: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/24.93.html#subj10.1 < 1206140432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strikes me as being a somewhat ambitious attempt < 1206140438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ¨ is just a crumbled e anyhow < 1206140453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably the sort of people who fall for spam emails would fall even for that < 1206140468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the plan would be thwarted due to such people's inability to use a fax machine < 1206140511 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1206140542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had more money < 1206140549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would gladly fund phisters < 1206140552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phishers < 1206140576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why? < 1206140601 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just bought this http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html < 1206140617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in a perfect world, everyone would fall for that, and i could get rich doing something like that < 1206140631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donating money, clearly, makes the world a bit better. < 1206140648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: i've heard great praise of it over at lambda the ultimate < 1206140650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my logic is flawless, as always < 1206140663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is laughing out loud again, but at least this time there's nobody else in the lab to hear < 1206140685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206140734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: too bad the world doesn't work on logic < 1206140760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad your mother doesn't work on logic < 1206140771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on fire today < 1206140775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better continue my j's < 1206140801 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm very sorry, but I can't make the header go under the box :( < 1206140807 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1206140811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you'll have to change your nick to oklorofl some time if you continue reasoning like that < 1206140816 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find my code < 1206140827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: context? < 1206140839 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://yr.judofyr.net < 1206140845 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the marker < 1206140850 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very beta) < 1206140877 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I'm really annoyed at IRC < 1206140885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good idea < 1206140888 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised how silly this is (I mean other than #esoteric) < 1206140890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love playing with my nick < 1206140895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could do it with my real name < 1206140902 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we segregate into programming language specific channels? < 1206140922 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it not make so much more sense to have paradaigm specific channels instead? < 1206140929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: so that people don't have to be in conversations that don't interest them? < 1206140942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of IRC is "how do I do X in programming language Y" < 1206140961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's #concatenative, anyway < 1206140966 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sort of like that ais523, but it ends up that people use a single programming language instead of many < 1206140974 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the factor channel :p < 1206140979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joined < 1206141021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said "hi", what a nice channel :))) < 1206141024 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmf :[ < 1206141040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there is this tv guy in norway who added "Værsågod Takkskalduha" to his surname, legally < 1206141049 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is alone in #declarative #functional and #procedural < 1206141058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelled slightly differently, i think < 1206141064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1206141076 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1206141078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the problem is, while you can do that here, too, you cannot change it back. < 1206141102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: there is a #concatenative i believe < 1206141113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does that translate as? < 1206141116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, i cannot translate that to english, just finnish < 1206141166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you are | thanks? < 1206141174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1206141227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think there is some limit on how often you can change your name < 1206141243 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems totally wrong to me < 1206141252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have once in a lifetime / for a *good reason* / marriage < 1206141263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: still on the paradigm topic? < 1206141266 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking of the story with all the blind people trying to figure out what an elephant is < 1206141267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did it after the laws were greatly liberalized < 1206141268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or changeing names < 1206141277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing < 1206141286 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are all expert in one thing, so none of them really understand it < 1206141315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard that story < 1206141319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you tell it? < 1206141322 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to merge all the procedural channels in one.. all the functional into one.. < 1206141328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gathers by the fire < 1206141368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell is quite different from #scheme... < 1206141384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise C++ is quite different from Java < 1206141436 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels like segregation < 1206141450 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's bad but I'm probably wrong and worrying about nothing < 1206141496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Usenet there are newsgroups at all levels < 1206141529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance comp.lang.c only talks about 100% ANSI- (or K&R-) compliant C, or occasionally about whether code is conforming < 1206141541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to discuss things like POSIX C, you would go to comp.unix.programmer < 1206141560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to discuss algorithms (which are language-dependent), comp.programming would be the best place < 1206141569 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1206141576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language-dependent? < 1206141578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or independent? < 1206141605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant independent < 1206141613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yrar < 1206141656 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm happy I got someone into logic programming today :P < 1206141669 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1206141696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: which language? < 1206141720 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Prolog, http://reddit.com/r/programming/info/6cwnk/comments/ , but they will probably learn Oz, I guess.. which I also want to do < 1206141752 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oz is this witches cauldron language seems pretty cool < 1206141791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes Prolog but doesn't think it goes far enough < 1206141805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has lots of restrictions, just to make it implementable... < 1206141807 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah Prolog is severely flawed in many ways.. < 1206141843 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still it's one of the best :/ < 1206141879 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1206141924 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always looking for new Logic langs/implementation techniques :) < 1206141944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is planning a Prolog-like esolang < 1206141949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very uncomputable < 1206141963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to be above-TC (and therefore TC) despite having no way to loop < 1206141974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can perform uncountably many computations in parallel < 1206141981 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206141982 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1206141997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that could actually check its own halting if implemented perfectly? < 1206141998 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will it do it! < 1206142018 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect proof generator? :o < 1206142019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a program contains a certain number of variables < 1206142034 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a nice thought exercise, adding the language construct infinity { ... } to C < 1206142036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can take on infinitely many values < 1206142049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'untyped function' is one of the possible data types < 1206142061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program consists of constraints on those variables < 1206142109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do "recursion"? < 1206142121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1206142124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define constraints in terms of other constraints < 1206142130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess would be more appropriate < 1206142139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206142158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not, that might sound more confusing < 1206142181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for recursion, you simply add an argument to a function that represents recursion depth and place a constraint on the relationship between values of the function at different depths < 1206142214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sure < 1206142230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we need some help from the matlab people < 1206142245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously needs to be able to do all mathematics known to man! < 1206142278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do algebra? < 1206142279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206142294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can just make tree constraints and use the parse trees of algebraic expressions < 1206142299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebra's fine < 1206142339 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a MAXIMA FFI :D < 1206142356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember what MAXIMA is < 1206142371 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice algebra system written in Common Lisp < 1206142387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you just do stuff like A*x^2 + Bx + C == 0 <==> x = (-B+sqrt(B^2-4*A*C))/(2*A) < 1206142391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add mathematical truths :-) < 1206142403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- < 1206142414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or <==> -> ==> < 1206142418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1206142420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<== < 1206142424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1206142426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fix it < 1206142426 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whines about introducing such compilex axioms < 1206142437 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just prove it in the language itself? < 1206142439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy enough to deduce without that rule using completing-the-square < 1206142448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1206142458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you hint the program? < 1206142466 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, why can't esolang creators do anything more interesting than brainfuck-derivatives? :( < 1206142482 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quendus: Check out #esoteric! < 1206142485 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to give it that axiom *and* deduce that < 1206142495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many esolang creators do < 1206142496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quendus: some can, look deeper < 1206142498 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quendus: they are talking about something totally different ovwer there < 1206142517 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RLY??? < 1206142518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the list of esolangs I've created, for instance, or that any of the regulars here have created < 1206142525 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1206142530 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't made any esolang... < 1206142543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki is a good starting point < 1206142543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of esolangs.org are brainfuck-derivatives, or at least clearly imperative, and very close < 1206142562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are many languages completely unlike it < 1206142568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ais523 contains a list of the ones I've created < 1206142570 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the list of things on the wiki and found very little else < 1206142579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the brainfuck-derivatives really do have a point. < 1206142579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many of them are Brainfuck-based < 1206142584 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well I implemented an esotericish lang (one that lets you run programs forwards or backwards in ..) < 1206142584 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far nothing that more fun than befunge to write in < 1206142593 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's something.. < 1206142598 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1206142609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quendus: try Underload if you haven't already < 1206142644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quendus: also unlambda and lazy k are based on a different mathematical model than brainfuck < 1206142653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very different < 1206142658 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1206142677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the functionals are pretty different < 1206142689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also want to look at languages like Thue and /// < 1206142697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a different paradigm again < 1206142703 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing a mathematical function in Brainfuck is as easy to do as a CAT program in Unlambda :D < 1206142729 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1206142741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in thue, the way i program, is basically to simulate something like a a turing machine < 1206142746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just much harder < 1206142751 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue is so cool o_o < 1206142763 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never had the courage to read up Thue < 1206142771 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I wrote a thue-ish interpreter too! < 1206142775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other paradigms are there? < 1206142785 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have implement lots of langs but not invented :/ < 1206142794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are object-oriented langs like Glass and ORK < 1206142796 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cellular automatons? < 1206142798 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also bully < 1206142802 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedural, Logic, Functional < 1206142804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... weird kolmogorov thing no one understands, are there esolangs based on it? < 1206142810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: < 1206142813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1206142814 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well, I'm trying. < 1206142822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol:Andrei Machine 9000 < 1206142825 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declarative, Constraint, Term Rewriting, Cellular < 1206142827 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although right now, I have a lot of school. < 1206142828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right :D < 1206142834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are langs like Flip, BackFlip, and Black < 1206142851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the weird < 1206142873 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that should be enough to distract me from matrices :> < 1206142874 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And multi-paradigm. < 1206142880 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the dysfunctional languages :D < 1206142922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one mentioned stack based langs? < 1206142927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smetana and Smatiny < 1206142929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenative < 1206142944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also destructor-based languages, they are a bit hit < 1206142946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206142950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mentioned Underload < 1206142952 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Destructor based? < 1206142963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah if they weren't just vaporware i guess :) < 1206142964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: oerjan's reaper < 1206142970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also Sceql, a queue-based lang < 1206142970 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1206142975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's nopular programming < 1206142979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance nopol < 1206142980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1206142989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where no program does absolutely anything. < 1206142991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1206142994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1206142994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OISCs like Subskin, SMATINY (not quite an OISC but similar), and MiniMAX < 1206143000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where every program does absolutely nothign. < 1206143001 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, like Unecessary or minimal < 1206143003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nothing < 1206143012 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAZY! < 1206143014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i preferred the first explanation < 1206143032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, just sounded weird at first < 1206143033 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the social esolangs. < 1206143035 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stacky, Consey, Array-based < 1206143036 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as IRP < 1206143036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irp! < 1206143042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chirp chirp < 1206143045 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table based ;p < 1206143072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash tables are a special function, paradig...mically speaking < 1206143073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would Turkey Bomb be a social esolang? < 1206143076 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any good IRP -bot-? < 1206143088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special case of functions < 1206143098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdasdf, i can't form sentences today < 1206143100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: i made an IrpBot but i wouldn't call it good... < 1206143104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a hashtable-based esolang? < 1206143105 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1206143119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if it just did all the examples on the wiki page, it would probably be good enough < 1206143123 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think adu described one here but didn't implement it < 1206143150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh nothing like that < 1206143155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then there's tag systems... not sure if they actually belong to some category < 1206143162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd call them queue-based languages < 1206143174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I have forgotten cyclic tag? < 1206143186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you're the WCT guy < 1206143186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really good at proving TCness of /very/ simple systems < 1206143205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the lang I proved the 2,3 Turing machine could emulate < 1206143223 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, uncomputable langs < 1206143230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... aren't they actually the ideal model for queue-based langauges? i think people have talked about making a queue-based language, but haven't heard the comparison to tag systems < 1206143231 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they're kind of uncomputable. < 1206143235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages < 1206143250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i haven't heard < 1206143271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I wonder why nobody mentioned that during the creation of Qdeql and Sceql < 1206143454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ordinary tag as well as cyclic tag, of course < 1206143495 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No freeze tag? < 1206143521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, what's that? < 1206143546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game < 1206143552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids play it < 1206143563 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variation of the one the tag system is based on. < 1206143571 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, named from < 1206143600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ordinary tag? < 1206143604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: how does it work? < 1206143621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you repeatedly disregard the first n characters of a queue < 1206143629 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, like normal tag, but when someone is it, he can't move < 1206143639 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can move again if another player unfreeze him < 1206143641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then put something on the end of the queue that depends on the head of the queue < 1206143673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be compiled into cyclic tag easily < 1206143677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks a tag game where 'it' cannot move would be a tad boring < 1206143682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, and cyclic tag different how? < 1206143699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, 'it' doesn't change < 1206143701 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The "it" guy remains the same < 1206143710 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he has to tag everyone. < 1206143710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so ;) < 1206143712 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1206143716 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1206143761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you can't move if you're tagged, and you can be released by anyone who hasn't been tagged? < 1206143763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tag is < 1206143770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1206143824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun game for everyone except the poor bastard who happens to be 'it' < 1206143830 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1206143861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you remove the first character from the queue each time. If it's a 1, you add a string to the end of the queue that depends on the number of steps the system has run, modulo some constant < 1206143877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1206143896 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1206143940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a tag system examines every nth character, and has often more than two characters available, but adds something at every step < 1206143965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i may have asked before, but does anyone know anything about the complexity of the 1 -> 11 -> 21 -> 1211 -> 111221 -> 312211 thing? < 1206143969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a cyclic tag system examines every character, adds something only on one character (so only two characters are available), but what is added depends on the number of steps the system has been running < 1206143988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to go home < 1206143992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye!"