00:01:14 Eso-std loads :D 00:03:40 \o/ 00:10:02 Slereah: wot it display??! 00:10:30 A bunch of folders, but I assume that's normal. 00:11:40 yay 00:16:18 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> OK, Esoteric Sexually Transmitted Diseases. Intersting. 00:16:21 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> *Interesting 00:16:39 Happened to me once. 00:16:49 I had sex with Alan Turing. 00:16:59 Then, bam. I had stacks. 00:17:06 Had to pop 'em. 00:18:00 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> Be careful with that metaphor. 00:18:06 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> Stretch it any farther and it just might tear. 00:18:52 It will take more than shame to make me drop it! 00:20:33 _D6Gregor1RFeZi: Esoteric standards, actually. 00:20:34 But nice try. 00:21:08 What will be the appropriate sentence for breaking the standards? 00:21:34 I feel it should involve Malbolge somehow. 00:39:07 Hm. 00:39:16 yelling at 00:39:20 and supplying a better interp 00:39:26 I've got this strange attraction to try scheme instead of Haskell. 00:39:31 It looks pretty. 00:39:35 Don't 00:39:41 Scheme doesn't have monads, for one. 00:39:47 For another, it's not *purely* functional. 00:39:49 Even better. 00:39:53 For another, it's not actually as pretty. 00:39:58 Slereah: Not if you want to make Lazy Bird work. 00:40:04 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> The sentence for breaking standards should be an ice cream cake and a pat on the back. 00:40:11 I'm totally cool with side effects, dude. 00:40:11 And besides, Scheme isn't very nice for writing real apps. 00:40:12 Haskell is. 00:40:27 Slereah: You're not -- monads are the only way to solve IO in a purely lazy language like Lazy Bird. 00:40:54 What does Scheme use though? 00:41:05 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> EVIL MAGIC 00:41:07 Slereah: Scheme isn't lazy. 00:41:13 Scheme is eagerly-evaluated. 00:41:15 D: 00:41:18 And it's not a functional language. 00:41:24 It has many functional features, but inside it's still imperative. 00:41:28 Oh. 00:41:30 You can mutate just about everything. 00:41:38 I thought it was, with Lazy K written in it. 00:41:43 No. 00:41:48 The lazy evaluation is coded by hand; there. 00:44:22 haskell is nice for writing real apps? 00:44:39 in my (very limited) experience, monads turn everything into an ugly mess. 00:44:50 YOU LIED TO ME EHIRD! 00:45:06 YOU TOLD ME IT WAS ALL BIKERIDES AND SUNSET! 00:46:21 lament: You lie! 00:46:31 Slereah: lament is just stupid; no bother! 00:46:31 :D 00:47:07 you get a big, ugly looking stack of monad transformers and have to constantly lift stuff 00:47:17 and when you need to add a new monad to the stack, oh, you're so screwed. 00:47:25 lament: rubbish 00:47:30 i've never encountered that 00:47:35 which part of that is not true? 00:47:35 you just write crappy haskell! :P 00:47:41 the part where you complained 00:48:33 big, ugly looking stack - unavoidable 00:48:33 constantly lifting stuff - unavoidable 00:48:52 screwed when you need to add a new monad - unavoidable. Unless you shove all monads into the stack in the beginning, just to be safe! 00:49:11 lament: very avoidable 00:49:15 which part? 00:49:18 Your code is just ugly. :| 00:49:26 lament: all of it. it's just a matter of design. 00:49:26 which part is avoidable? 00:49:29 that's not true 00:49:49 have you seen the picture of the monad stack for lambdabot? 00:49:59 lament: lambdabot code isn't ugly. 00:51:49 newtype LB a = LB { runLB :: ReaderT (IRCRState,IORef IRCRWState) IO a } deriving (Monad,Functor,MonadIO) 00:52:05 i suppose that's not so bad. 00:52:48 lament: that may look ugly, but the ACTUAL CODE that makes up lambdabot is not 00:52:55 and there's no huge-stacks-of-lift 00:53:08 besides, I count one transformer there. 00:53:17 yes, there were definitely more :) 00:54:06 lament: ergo, lambdabot code used to be bad 00:54:08 which was why it looked that way 00:54:15 but, once rewritten properly, it is fine 00:54:28 no, i mean there're more transformers there somewhere 00:54:48 but the part about me writing crappy haskell is definitely true. 00:54:59 it's hard, since there's no guides on writing good haskell! 00:55:59 -!- pjoter has joined. 00:56:00 lament: it's called #haskell! 00:56:06 & a functional mind, represented as a monad 00:56:12 i'm hungry 00:56:25 type Mind = ReaderT (RState,IORef RWState) IO 00:56:27 that should do it 00:56:49 hey thats not about programming machines is it!?? 00:57:12 i'm into the quest for ultimate wisdom darn it! 00:57:29 pjoter: uhh 00:57:29 what 00:57:37 c'mon... 00:57:40 oh, i see 00:57:42 #esoteric. 00:57:52 pjoter: your (presumably pseudoscientific) nonsense is that way ----> 00:58:13 cmon make this a spiritual channel NOW! 00:58:14 pls 00:58:17 From here, that arrows points to Sgeo. Though when I press enter, it will point... 00:58:27 mmmmh 00:58:33 ok lets talk about machines 00:58:37 * Slereah puts on his bandana 00:58:39 pjoter: no, personally i think spiritual crap is just that 00:58:52 others here may disagree though there seems to be a general scientific, agnostic/atheist bend around here 00:59:04 i would welcome it 00:59:09 ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 00:59:22 ? 00:59:26 pjoter: science works pretty well for me, you could try it. 00:59:34 (but no, it's far too much work trying to actually understand things, I assume) 00:59:41 are you so sure arrogant son of a ape? 01:00:02 Well, you seem to accept evolution. It's a start! 01:00:02 (no offense though) 01:00:15 i was referring to your dad 01:00:21 lol j/k i like machines too ;) 01:00:22 Nah, ehird is probably quite mild. 01:00:24 but hey cmon 01:00:32 i want some spiritual channel, where will i find it? 01:00:44 Aren't we spiritual and shit? 01:00:50 the problem with the world is we know nothing isnt it? 01:01:00 pjoter: freenode is not the place. 01:01:01 We were talking about the programming language of the universe yesterday! 01:01:05 freenode is mainly about -- as you put it -- 'machines' 01:01:14 Also math. 01:01:16 do you know the damn feeling of wanting to understand and realizing you understand just nothing? 01:01:17 And SCIENCE 01:01:39 Freenode is definately not much about spirits. 01:01:42 pjoter: Yes! This is why I critically examine and verify everything I see. It's better than just blindly believing something because it 'feels' true -- that's against what you just said! 01:01:51 i like that 01:01:53 Slereah: Shut up, I'm busy advocating SCIENCE! :< 01:01:55 but hold on 01:02:08 Can't I just ask a spirit to do my I/O? I don't understand monads :((( 01:02:15 Slereah: hehe 01:02:24 i wanna achieve some higher spirit, some insight which science obviously isnt able to grant me 01:02:34 you know that feeling, dont hide! 01:02:48 pjoter: 'obviously'? 01:02:48 Stop assuming things.. 01:02:48 And, why does a 'higher spirit' have to exist? That's another assumption. 01:02:50 If there's something wrong with your current state; fix it. 01:03:12 thats the frame you put on it 01:03:26 we all know that 01:03:31 its necessary somehow, ok 01:03:45 No.. This is what I honestly believe to be true, because it is the most logical explanation and I truly believe the scientific method is how the world can be explained. 01:03:45 but it aint all, we know that too at the bottom of our hearts 01:03:48 would you agree? 01:03:55 I'm afraid I wouldn't. 01:04:18 i dont say the scientific method is wrong at all 01:04:21 its just not enough 01:04:31 that makes no sense 01:04:35 why isn't it enough? 01:04:53 Heh. 01:05:02 Slereah: Seriously though. 01:05:06 A few years ago, I would have so jumped in. 01:05:11 I haven't heard one reason why it isn't enough. 01:05:18 i'll try 01:05:19 Apart from: 'well, we all feel it' 01:06:35 there are moments we take another look to the world, fractions of seconds only.. thats my experience, i cant grasp it, but i know i should concentrate my whole efforts to do so 01:07:00 pjoter: I think that's just general human paranoia. :P 01:07:11 you may condemn the "well i feel it" argument but on what else we base ALL our thinking in the last consequences? 01:07:19 ethics 01:07:19 (Well, fine. But whatever you do, just don't join scientology.) 01:07:20 moral 01:07:37 pjoter: Laws of logic which have withstood the critical test for eons. 01:07:54 for eons?? 01:08:09 i heard some different stories, though i dont wanna attack logic at all right now 01:08:10 -!- bd_ has joined. 01:08:19 -!- bd_ has left (?). 01:08:20 -!- bd_ has joined. 01:08:36 You also might not want to do it here. 01:08:38 bd_: Some context -- pjoter thought this was a channel about real esoterica, 'science vs non-science' abounds 01:08:41 topic is lies :( 01:08:43 we had a lot of struggle to actually end up here, and we're by far not out of flaws 01:08:48 and yes 01:08:50 topic is very much lies 01:08:58 mh topics are for wimps aint they? 01:09:13 ;) cmon you're the right guys , i feel that too! 01:09:30 pjoter: anyway, my opinion is that science gives real understanding. Other things (such as, well, esoterica) give comfort. 01:09:35 I know which one I would prefer. 01:09:44 ok lets end it now 01:09:55 tell me something about the language 01:10:09 what language 01:10:15 It won't have monads, I hope! 01:10:15 the esoteric language 01:10:24 Languages, pjoter. 01:10:25 esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list 01:10:26 pick one. 01:10:38 i heared that word monads four times now i guess 01:10:47 The big ones are Brainfuck, Befunge and Intercal. 01:10:47 pjoter: monads monads monads monads monads gonads monads monads monads monads 01:10:52 darn it 01:10:56 oh ok 01:11:08 brainfuck alike 01:11:18 Well, in concept at least. 01:11:20 hmm, incidentally I was just thinking about making an esolang with *only* monads (possibly with a type system... but I'm trying to figure out how to avoid *functions*) 01:11:38 and you tell me about sobriety and science? 01:11:54 j/k 01:12:00 Hell, ain't nothing as sobering as Brainfuck. 01:12:05 pjoter: I think I found your answer! http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ 01:12:18 olsner: haskell with the sk calculus? 01:12:26 bd_: that includes functions 01:12:28 lol i'll consider it 01:12:33 pjoter: uhh, it's a joke 01:12:34 :P 01:12:38 lool 01:12:41 he's warning me 01:12:43 i like that 01:12:48 ehird: well, I mean removing lambda in the same way as unlambda 01:12:57 no, SK would count as functions in this context IMO 01:13:08 the lambda calculus ever lacked of deeper esoteric concepts 01:13:14 we all know that 01:13:27 but arguably, this'd have to become a combinatory logic with monad-based combinators 01:13:33 thats just not how we perceive the world 01:13:46 pjoter: i guess you percieve the world as a turing machine then 01:13:59 a two banded yes 01:14:02 maybe that's why you're on this 'quest'... you can't see the beauty in the world as it is 01:14:06 Nah. Pjoter seems more of a recursive functions kind of guy. 01:14:14 my world is referentially transparent, it's just in a State monad 01:14:22 i just need to understand recursion to understand recursion 01:14:26 not now 01:14:54 olsner: my world is more finely-grained transparent than that 01:15:05 the Universe monad I have is very elegant 01:15:05 :-P 01:15:07 thats what you think! 01:15:53 no really i was lookin for some real esoteric channel and what i encounter? fellow machine servants.. isn't that ironic? 01:16:07 machine servants? 01:16:07 hehe. 01:16:11 I'm wetting my pants thinking of it. 01:16:19 (turing) machine servants? 01:16:21 Plus, we're not all machine servants! 01:16:28 what else 01:16:28 Some of us are more of a function servants 01:16:34 Your brain is good at generalizing thiings quickly to support the path you already chose for yourself, pjoter. All of ours are. Maybe you should think about that.. 01:17:02 did you know that actually all phenomena are directly or indirectly related to the number five, and this relationship can always be demonstrated given enough ingenuity on the part of the demonstrator? 01:17:12 -!- lament has set topic: You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a monad attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this channel and try again. Your channel may also be "identified-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, message a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks!. 01:17:16 Yes. 01:17:22 there we go 01:17:22 I read Illuminatus too! 01:17:36 pjoter: the ingenuity being the key thing, of course. :-) 01:17:38 ok i'll put some noodles with cheese into myself now and you just hold on ok? 01:17:42 hehe k 01:17:44 I can also derive 45345345 from anything! 01:17:45 EWIGE BLUMENKRAFT! 01:17:54 perhaps i'll find some real esoteric channels someday.. 01:17:55 %% 01:17:58 lament: what did you do to the topic? 01:17:58 I've got monads to keep me company, don't worry. 01:17:59 wie jetz blumenkraft? 01:18:25 also ich ess mal paar kaesspaetzle - bbl 01:18:41 ehird: made it more buzzwordy 01:18:44 Don't worry pjoter, you're not the first to make the mistake. 01:18:47 warum dieser "blumenkraft"? 01:18:52 At least the second that I know of! 01:19:01 lament: but that was the direct #overflow topic 01:19:01 :( 01:19:25 Slereah: did i advocate SCIENCE then too? 01:19:36 Not that I remember. 01:20:01 He didn't call us machine servants, maybe that's why. 01:20:10 Though I have to admit, I really dig the expression. 01:24:24 "FOR BREAKING THE ESO, THE MACHINE WILL MAKE YOU PAY" 01:24:46 And then, bam, the guilty servant is sent to the Malebolge 01:25:04 Where his code will change at each instruction. 01:25:13 Cruel but fair is the machine. 01:28:46 lol the second 01:29:36 oh hi bd_ 01:29:39 afk going to eat 01:30:18 plus i included me into that flippant classification 01:30:18 Haskell isn't easy to get used to. 01:30:25 No, not at all. 01:30:30 I should probably write some little programs in it. 01:31:57 my biggest issue with it was that I wanted to do OO all the time. 01:32:05 OO? 01:32:26 OO. More like 'EW!' 01:33:08 ehird: don't diss OO! 01:33:28 OO is just a flamboyant expression for nothing 01:33:41 lament: why not 01:33:46 pjoter: so is esoterica 01:33:52 lol 01:34:27 hey ok i'm out, nice to meet ya all and good luck with further esoteric pilgrims or the like 01:34:52 Bai. 01:34:55 perhaps i'll be back someday if i'm versed enough for haskell 01:34:58 bai 01:35:02 -!- pjoter has left (?). 01:35:21 Someone should submit a patch to gnu coreutils, replacing true.c with: 01:35:23 int main(void) 01:35:23 { 01:35:23 return 0; 01:35:23 } 01:36:10 Is return 0 even necessary? 01:36:26 main(){} 01:36:26 Slereah: Yes. 01:36:31 main must return an 'int'. 01:36:34 ANSI C specifies this. 01:36:43 and main() is invalid. You need (void) 01:37:35 ehird: also, do you use emacs? 01:37:51 lament: yes; why? 01:37:59 then i'm not talking to you anymore! 01:37:59 well, I use Emacs and TextMate about equally 01:38:08 (suprisingly, TextMate's XML support is superior to all of Emacs') 01:38:14 lament: why not 01:38:15 :( 01:38:48 emacs is evil. 01:38:54 why 01:39:00 Is Kate okay? 01:39:03 I mean, it is kinda, but it's better at editing Haskell and Lisp than everything else. 01:39:07 Slereah: Not for Haskell! or lisp. 01:39:22 Good. Haskell makes mah head hurt 01:39:28 -!- Corun has joined. 01:39:30 ehird: right, that's why haskell and lisp suck. 01:39:39 lament: bullshit 01:39:45 ehird: i have a point 01:39:47 lament: ok then, what do you suggest instead. 01:40:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:40:47 ehird: A language is just a small element of the overall development environment which you use to make stuff. A language should be well-integrated into this environment. 01:40:59 It is certainly true that lisp is well-integrated into emacs 01:41:37 but i don't like emacs, so i wouldn't use lisp. 01:41:57 haskell is not well-integrated into anything, at least as of yet. 01:42:11 Heh. 01:42:24 yi 01:43:01 yi is just an editor 01:43:06 as far as i know 01:43:09 no it's not 01:43:11 its an environment 01:43:15 what can it do? 01:43:16 that happens to look a lot like an editor 01:43:21 lament: environmenty stuff. 01:43:27 it can act like vi or emacs too 01:43:30 when it has its editor disguise on 01:45:02 does it have a good module/function browser? Does it provide good autocompletion? Tooltips which show the types of functions as you type them in? Does it have a good debugger? A refactoring tool? How well is it integrated with QuickCheck? 01:45:16 lament: if it doesn't have any of those things, adding them will be trivial 01:45:22 #haskell, go forth and ask. 01:46:03 (not to mention that the time i tried yi, it wouldn't even install) 01:46:32 ehird: i'm pretty sure that it doesn't, and i seriously doubt any of them are trivial 01:46:44 i suspect they're painfully complex 01:46:49 in any editor, not just yi 01:48:28 I suspect that emacs doesn't provide those things for haskell, either. 01:48:55 -!- ehird has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:49:18 mission accomplished! 01:50:07 YOU HAVE DRIVEN OUT THE HASKELL FORCES SIR 01:50:11 CONGRATULATION. 01:50:19 The Machine God will reward you. 01:50:30 Machines do not take kindly to functions >:| 01:50:59 why does everyone seemingly want to masturbate to Haskell? 01:51:29 I don't. But it's apparently awesome and all for something I need to do. 01:51:51 Although my guess is, I'll do the lazy thing and just use some priority operator 01:52:29 I think Haskell suprisingly has better IO than Python 01:52:49 Although I understand Python much better than Haskell 01:53:04 GreaseMonkey: it's amazingly beautiful. 01:53:07 python is very clean 01:53:14 Hell, first program I wrote in Python was the beggining of the Love Machine 9000! 01:53:14 i once made my own OOP language 01:53:18 GreaseMonkey: yes, python is 01:53:30 but it's not nearly as beautiful as haskell 01:53:37 i'm not sure I can rewrite Lazy Bird as my first Haskell program 01:54:50 in my lang, you could do something like: a = #1; b = #0; i = #10; while({i>0;},{a = a.add(b); print(a); t = b; b = a; a = t; i = i.sub(1);}); 01:54:55 whoops 01:55:15 a = #1; b = #0; i = #10; while({i.gt(#0);},{a = a.add(b); print(a); t = b; b = a; a = t; i = i.sub(#1);}); 01:56:15 * Slereah looks back on the first Love Machine 9000 01:56:24 It actually asked all states :o 02:01:02 LM9k? What's that? 02:01:23 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/NTCM 02:01:33 I never actually call it NTCM. 02:02:23 Why is it at NTCM then? 02:02:38 Because it is moar srs name 02:02:52 More than Love Machine 9000, that is. 02:03:07 At least redirect [[Love Machine 9000]] and [[LoveMachine 9000]] and [[LoveMachine9000]] 02:03:33 and maybe [[LoveMachine]] and [[Love Machine]] 02:03:39 And versions with M as lowercase 02:03:40 >.> 02:03:55 j/k about the case, because searching for one will return the other 02:04:18 Plus, the only people who hear of LM9k are the people here 02:04:23 And they already know :o 02:04:54 what's wrong with expanding your fanbase? 02:04:56 I didn't 02:05:07 I wonder what my fanbase for PSOX is 02:05:35 heck, i got some email about some guy's 5-instruction language when he read about bloody HighFive 02:05:58 Well, they can email me about it under the name NTCM 02:06:10 Although so far, no fanmail! 02:15:00 First version was that one : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/turing.py 02:39:34 Grr, I can never remember the URL for logs 02:39:57 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_Portal#IRC 02:40:52 ty 02:42:20 I can't seem to search it 02:42:53 Use google! 02:42:58 USE THE GOOGLE 02:43:11 site:[adress of the site] [terms of the search] 02:43:15 That's the syntax 02:43:19 http://www.google.com/search?q=PESOX+site%3Aircbrowse.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a 02:43:34 hey guys, I felt inspired, so I whipped up a simple, extensible assembler: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203733864.html 02:43:38 Same with PSOX 02:44:09 it can currently turn something like this http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203733935.html into this: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203734033.html 03:09:57 I think I'll abstract different GUI toolkits 03:10:05 To be usable by PSOX 03:10:20 Then the client can choose which toolkit to use, although there will be no difference in the API 03:11:00 Sounds like the best way of doing things. 03:11:15 Makes portability trivial. ;) 03:12:37 * Sgeo registers pri:GUI 03:13:37 How does this sound: 03:13:43 A function to pull in one GUI event 03:13:52 The first byte is the Element ID 03:14:07 Second byte is the event type, dependent on the type of the element 03:14:22 Then after that is any associated data, then a 0x00 03:14:35 For instance, if I click a button with EID 0x01 03:14:47 Then it will return 0x01 0x01 0x00 03:15:05 Once the button is released, it will return 0x01 0x02 0x00 03:15:13 (for buttons, 0x01 is click, 0x02 is release) 03:17:11 Events do need to be registered for each EID 03:17:35 pikhq, thoughts? 03:17:50 Also, thoughts on an mkdir function with a cd option, and no separate cd function? 03:18:04 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 03:18:18 No thoughts ATM. 03:18:27 I'm *really* tired. . . 03:18:33 Like, about to collapse. . . 03:19:15 Gotosleep! 03:20:45 It's only 8:20. 03:20:52 Take a nap! 03:21:05 I've barely been *home* for an hour. Ugh. 03:21:27 Are you sick? Feel better soon if so 03:21:48 No, just low sleep combined with the world's longest day. :( 03:22:20 Why was this a long day for you? 03:22:34 03:22:39 I left home at 6. I got home at 18:30. 03:22:55 See? Way the fuck too long. 03:23:24 What was going on 03:23:25 ? 03:24:20 School + having to wait 4 fucking hours for a ride. :( 03:25:05 Why did you have to wait 4 hours? 03:26:26 Because that's how long it took for my ride to show up? 03:26:58 Why did it take that long? 03:27:11 Maybe your ride could have called you and you could have taken a bus? 03:27:26 I'm in the US. We don't *have* decent public transportation. 03:27:40 2 hours is more decent than 4 hours 03:27:43 Specifically: the bus towards where I live runs 3 times a day. 03:27:53 (Takes me 1.5hrs to get to college) 03:28:06 Don't feel like talking about the trip back 03:28:07 oh 04:29:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:54:47 Hioerjan 04:58:08 Ah, yes. The rare Hioerjan subspecies of oerjan. 04:58:59 We Are In A Hi'er State 04:59:15 hisgeo 05:14:12 -!- uvanta has quit ("php you!"). 06:15:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:50:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:50:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:06:49 bus to where i live in goes about a hundred times a day... but that's just the one bus, there's 4 buses for it 09:28:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Bad attempt, Liempt."). 09:30:05 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 13:42:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:42:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:53:41 -!- Corun has joined. 15:27:04 -!- ehird has joined. 16:12:55 -!- calamari has joined. 16:16:15 hi 16:17:51 Hi 16:20:59 why does everyone seemingly want to masturbate to Haskell? 16:21:08 eewww 16:21:10 why does GreaseMonkey masturbate to keeping his wiki pages non-public domain? 16:21:24 then cry and remove them when realizing the wiki is PD? 16:21:41 Because that's what monkeys do. 16:24:03 к определению алгоритма 16:24:16 Kolmogorov, why can't you be awesome like Alan Turing? 16:24:32 And write articles that people can understand. 16:24:52 hay, someone ping eso-std.org 16:24:55 it isn't der 16:25:11 "403 Forbidden" D: 16:25:51 that sok 16:43:27 Emacs - RMS = ??? 16:44:43 better emacs? 16:45:11 No. 16:45:28 The last time he wasn't maintaining Emacs, Emacs spent 5 years without a release, IIRC. 16:45:36 excellent 16:45:43 this news is sounding better and better 16:46:11 Emacs without RMS is like Apple without Jobs. 16:46:27 if it means no emacs, I'm all for it 16:46:36 "the emacs Newton" 16:49:31 olsner: The hell is wrong with you? 16:49:40 Even if you don't like emacs, you don't have to *use* it. 16:50:04 RodgerTheGreat: My thoughts exactly. *shudder* 16:52:19 pikhq: Don't talk about Apple without Jobs. It gives me nightmares. 16:52:30 (Albeit, probably in part because of the wonderful RDF.) 16:52:46 pikhq: And it's called editor wars, n00blet. 16:53:03 ehird: Who gives a fuck? 16:53:42 I'll just be happy knowing I can do M-x M-butterfly 16:53:44 pikhq: Who the fuck disabled your humour node? 16:53:57 An editor war is not funny, it's boring. 16:53:57 Oh wait, you can't LIVE without your precious emacs without rms. It's too special, not for joking about. Sorry, sorry. 16:54:34 That's either damnably insulting, or not a bad joke. 16:54:38 Can't quite decide which. 16:56:28 Mainly the latter, a tiny bit of the former because I'm an asshole./ 16:56:29 :D 17:09:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:35:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 17:37:13 hello everybody 17:37:51 Hello little man. 18:00:05 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:31:09 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:31:11 -!- slereah_ has joined. 18:44:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:50:40 rehi slereah_ hi oerjan 18:51:00 Hello little man. 18:52:29 "little man"? 18:52:38 Little man. 18:52:55 I call each and every man little man. 18:53:00 Also most women. 18:53:52 actually Sgeo is a 7 feet 68 year old black woman from New Carolina. but she won't admit it of course. except to confuse us. 18:54:05 lol oerjan 18:54:17 "New Carolina"? 18:54:28 Is that a fusion between Hillary and Obama? 18:54:37 Because that's what America wants. 18:54:54 *south 18:55:13 no, that would be South York 18:56:02 http://youtube.com/watch?v=blm4xPO_iIA 18:56:03 * oerjan notes that New Carolina gives several google hits 19:03:21 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:10:15 hi 19:10:46 Hi puzzlet_ and SimonRC 19:15:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:30:19 -!- ehird has quit ("Leaving"). 20:32:26 -!- ehird has joined. 20:36:36 rehird 20:37:38 heh 20:40:04 heh 20:40:11 re, ehird. rehird. 20:45:13 actually, rehi + ehird = rehird 20:45:40 SimonRC, somehow, I failed to notice thhat 20:47:37 SimonRC: that's good. 20:47:39 rehi, ehird. rehird. 21:16:13 13:29:59 Razor-X: Thou shalt not build regexp's into a base language :P 21:16:18 From the #esoteric logs. 21:16:33 Gregor, could you tell me again how you defined the Plof3 syntax? :p 21:17:03 no gregor here 21:19:40 Regexes are used in PSOX 21:22:01 pikhq, how's work on PEBBLE2? 21:22:28 !ami 3488 21:22:33 ern wribg cgab 21:23:06 flib gnor fre? 21:24:10 ??/ 21:24:24 huh? 21:25:05 * oerjan checks for unicode and finds none 21:25:19 * Sgeo was typoing 21:25:40 whon lov was typoneswe 21:26:53 Sgeo: /dev/null 21:32:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a monad attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this monad and return again. Your channel may also be "arrows-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, massage a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks!. 21:34:50 +r? "arrows-only"? 21:34:53 Oh 21:34:56 >.> 21:35:06 Some crazy monad thing I guess 21:35:53 when in doubt, escalate. the monad was already there. 21:36:30 arrows are a generalisation of monads to inputs as well as outputs 21:36:53 LMAO 21:37:09 uuuuh 21:37:23 you have a strange sense of humour 21:38:49 He's a SERVANT OF THE MACHINE 21:39:37 AM NOT &"NO CARRIER 21:41:11 +++ATH0 21:43:26 pikhq: regexp's are in psox core 21:43:27 :) 21:43:45 slereah_: were you here yesterday for the spiritual guy? 21:43:52 Yes, yes I was. 21:44:36 ehird, well, the PSOX reference implementation's core 21:44:42 err 21:44:43 i mean oerjan 21:44:45 *maent 21:44:48 *meant 21:44:50 How does this look: 21:44:51 0x00 0x06 0x01 FNUM(1)/cd STRINGNL/dirname 0x0A 21:44:51 Makes directory dirname if it doesn't exist (if it does, it's harmless) 21:44:51 If cd is not 0x00, changes current directory to that directory regardless of whether or not it existed beforehand 21:45:02 no, i briefly noticed in the logs 21:45:16 *it in 21:46:14 oerjan: he was pretty good at convincing himself. 21:49:40 i am _not_ an "atheist or agnostic", for what it is worth. although i was from about 1994 to a day in the summer of 1998. 21:50:19 Did Gawd appear to you? 21:50:39 no, i opened a book at a random page in desperation. 21:50:42 oerjan, what happened on that day 21:50:54 the page spoke about opening books on random pages. 21:51:00 Lol 21:52:14 And that caused you to believe what? 21:52:30 in syncronicity. 21:56:17 aw, man. :( 21:56:18 http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/departments/syndicates/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003712741 22:01:10 oerjan: what are you? just curious 22:01:19 RodgerTheGreat: WHAT NO 22:01:30 time to kill someone 22:01:31 -!- ehird has quit ("Leaving"). 22:01:43 -!- ehird has joined. 22:01:49 boy, that typo was perfectly timd 22:01:51 timed 22:05:30 everyone died? 22:05:41 Aaaaaaaaaaargh 22:05:56 Promise me, before I die... 22:05:58 To serve the machine 22:06:21 * SimonRC goes 22:09:09 I guess I should use unbuffered for all files? 22:37:19 Should ls listings be a list of files delimited by \n and terminated with NUL, or delimited by NUL and terminated with \n? 22:37:34 -!- ihope has joined. 22:37:41 hihope 22:37:44 Should ls listings be a list of files delimited by \n and terminated with NUL, or delimited by NUL and terminated with \n? 22:37:53 Ello. 22:38:24 Delimited by \n and terminated with NUL. 22:39:17 ok ty. Why? 22:40:25 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> OH NOSE 22:40:28 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> PBF D-8 22:40:53 Because NUL seems bigger. 22:41:10 oh dear gregor was here, just horribly maimed 22:41:13 _D6Gregor1RFeZi, what's with that name? 22:41:28 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> I was mangled. 22:41:45 * ehird is going to write a dinky little esolang which is like haskell, but crazier 22:41:45 did you get the license plate? 22:41:50 for example, the Y combinator types in it 22:41:56 actually, i think every term will type in it 22:41:57 :D 22:42:04 Damn you and yout Haskell! 22:42:16 ehird: how about run-time lazy type checking? :P 22:42:20 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> $ haskell -v 22:42:20 olsner: haha :) 22:42:24 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> YOUT Haskell v1 22:42:35 it will have a type inference engine of course 22:42:40 but i hope i can get it to infer recursive types 22:42:56 (\f -> f f) infers to '(a = a -> b) -> b' 22:43:23 ehird, just like you were going to work on SOXP? 22:44:57 Sgeo: You should really get over it. Sheesh. 22:45:08 I think I would like to see a SOXP 22:45:18 so you can whine about it being a bad idea? 22:45:24 that's what you did, originally 22:45:52 Well, at least a GUI domain, if you're not doing your SOXP project 22:46:11 i thought you're working on that 22:46:43 oh 22:47:12 here's 'coerce' in my language (which is called Facade): 22:47:13 coerce :: a -> b;; 22:47:13 coerce = \a -> a;; 22:47:16 Cool. 22:47:17 use like: 22:47:39 wtf :: [Int];; # strings are lists of unicode codepoints 22:47:47 wtf = coerce 5;; 22:48:01 which will give you the internal representation of 5, when treated as a list of integers 22:48:05 Ideally, coerce would be implemented as "My gosh, why would you want to do a thing like that?" 22:48:17 ihope: But this is so much more fun! 22:48:28 ehird, I will work on it if you don't work on it 22:48:35 But first I'm working on File I/O 22:48:39 I guess coerce is nice when you want to get at internal representations. 22:49:03 ihope: Not really, since there'll be no way to sanely get at it 22:49:11 Oh. 22:49:18 oh, and here's map: 22:49:19 So it's only good for fun and circumvention? 22:49:28 map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> b 22:49:41 What does that do, then? 22:49:59 map = \f -> \xs -> if (equal xs []) [] (cons (f (head xs)) (map f (tail xs)) 22:50:05 and yes i'm aware that looks like lisp 22:50:11 the syntax is ... lightweight 22:50:14 but i will improve it 22:50:46 How is that [a] -> b and not [a] -> [b]? 22:50:49 err 22:50:51 it is [b] 22:50:52 sorry 22:51:08 wowzers, I think I need 'hindley/milner type inference for retards' 22:51:34 Have some type declarations: Disguise : RealType a -> a; Undisguise : a -> RealType a 22:51:40 Wait, no. 22:51:48 ihope: define 'RealType' 22:52:44 Disguise : a -> b; Undisguise : (\x : a) => RealType x 22:52:57 heh 22:52:58 wow 22:53:06 on another note 22:53:07 InfElemList : [InfElemList];; 22:53:11 And Disguise . Undisguise = id makes it work. :-P 22:53:15 but that can be inferred automatically: 22:53:20 xs = [xs];; 22:53:22 :t xs 22:53:25 a = [a] 22:55:30 ihope: Actually... will hindley/milner work for this? 22:55:37 I think so. 22:55:48 If you mean the (a = a -> b) -> b type of stuff. 22:56:52 Attention everyoen interested in PSOX, including pikhq: Does this look good? http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-fileio.txt 22:57:12 yay. 22:57:19 manpage for false(1): 'do nothing, unsuccessfully' 22:57:20 very zen 22:57:26 let's break it down 22:57:32 INITIAL GOAL: do nothing 22:57:37 SPECIFIER: unsuccessfully 22:57:51 So it actually does something? Gasp. 22:57:55 ~X where PURPOSE = X & SPECIFIER = 'unsuccessfully' 22:58:06 PURPOSE: not (do nothing) 22:58:09 PURPOSE: don't (do nothing) 22:58:15 ~nothing = something 22:58:18 PURPOSE: do something 22:58:29 Now, 'false' actually fails to do anything, therefore its manpage is incorrect. 22:58:37 (Well, it does 'return 1;'. But still.) 22:58:46 Either its manpage is incorrect, or there's a bug, that is. 22:58:57 return 1; counts as something 22:59:01 And don't forget this fun set of declarations: extensible data Real; Zero : Real; One : Real; a + b + c = a + (b + c); a * b * c = a * (b * c); a + b = b + a; a * b = b * a; Zero + a = a; One * a = a; Zero * a = a; a * (b + c) = a * b + a * c; I don't feel like typing up the least upper bound property; Not (Zero = One) 22:59:03 It's the manpage for true(1) that's wrong 22:59:35 ihope: You know I think when I have an implementation YOU can type this all up. :-P 23:00:23 Hmm. 23:00:26 First thing first - an AST! 23:00:50 Hmm. 23:00:55 I won't group 'a :: b' and 'a = b' 23:01:05 The thingy can sort that out. 23:03:52 not the watchy? 23:04:36 oerjan: no 23:13:35 ihope: http://hpaste.org/5849 23:13:38 that's an AST 23:13:40 any comments? 23:14:14 Nope. 23:14:23 What means AST? 23:14:27 ihope: OK, I mean -- is there anything you'd like to see there :P 23:14:29 slereah_: Parse tree 23:14:32 Abstract Syntax Tree 23:14:58 Multi-argument lambdas? 23:15:13 ihope: Haskell doesn't have those. 23:15:37 \a b -> Foo? 23:16:05 ihope: And what is the type of that? 23:16:11 (Alternate: Give me another way to write that.) 23:16:20 \a -> \b -> Foo 23:16:23 Exactly. 23:16:36 I can, if wanted, just parse '\a b -> Foo' as '\a -> \b -> Foo' 23:16:47 Same reason I don't have a special 'f x = ...' definition. 23:16:51 I can just parse it as 'f = \x -> ...' 23:16:55 Oh, yeah. 23:24:43 ihope: Wow, parsing [a,b,c,...] is actually kinda hard with parsec. 23:25:41 [, repeating expression-comma, optional expression, ]? 23:26:32 -!- ihope_ has joined. 23:26:42 Or [, optional (repeating expression-comma, expression), ]? 23:26:59 Make that optional (expression, repeating comma-expression), actually. Maybe. 23:29:05 ihope_: Yeah, it's just that in Parsec all that 'optional' stuff can get ugly 23:30:22 It's not too ugly if you're careful. 23:33:33 use sepBy 23:34:32 ehird: ^^ 23:34:57 Suddenly, I feel like making a pseudo-BNF definition that recognizes a prime number. 23:35:40 oerjan: but #haskell want me to use lexeme and TokenParser! :-P 23:35:44 ihope_: Is that... possible? 23:35:59 i mean for the [a,b,c,...] lists 23:36:18 I did say pseudo-. 23:37:12 -!- uvanta has joined. 23:37:26 oerjan: am funcuzzled 23:38:17 sepBy p delim parses nothing, or p, or any number of p's separated by delim's 23:39:19 the reference example is commaSep p = p `sepBy` (symbol ",") 23:41:11 oerjan: would i be better using TokenParser, or that? 23:41:17 I mean, Facade's grammar isn't that complex.. 23:41:34 erm, symbol is part of TokenParser 23:41:46 ah 23:41:58 oerjan: but .. can I mix regular parsers with that? 23:42:08 sure 23:42:54 oerjan: and does that skip whitespace? 23:43:01 Now I'm wondering whether it's possible to read in an integer in little-endian binary and output it in little-endian decimal using finite storage. 23:43:05 TokenParser gives you parsers for various individual token types, automatically skipping space and comments after them 23:43:22 oerjan: so, essentially, i can't just drop that in 23:43:35 because, personally, i have no idea how to use TokenParser 23:43:37 sure you can 23:43:40 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:43:40 and Parsec docs aren't very helpful 23:43:51 oerjan: OK, but how will that sepBy help me handle whitespace? 23:43:51 there's an example using it 23:44:03 sepBy has nothing to do with the whitespace 23:44:20 exactly 23:44:22 it's just for parsing something structured like a list with delimiters 23:44:27 so; what is the best solution? 23:44:33 where i have a standard language grammar 23:44:42 with mostly entirely whitespace insensitivity 23:44:53 and quite a lot of deliminated things like that 23:45:01 is there a TokenParser thing for unifying all that skipping and stuff? 23:45:10 because right now i have various space skipping littered about. 23:45:19 if TokenParser can help me get rid of that too.. 23:45:20 yes 23:45:33 lexeme p parses p, then skips. 23:46:15 all the other parsers defined by TokenParser are wrapped with lexeme 23:46:52 like symbol, which parses a string of operator-like symbols 23:47:06 (a specific one) 23:47:16 oerjan: is there an example unifying all that? 23:48:06 See the Lexical Analysis section 23:49:10 *analysis 23:51:29 oerjan: so I define a thingy called lexer 23:51:31 which is a thingy 23:51:44 and is a TokenParser () 23:53:47 see the reference section "The members of TokenParser" 23:56:14 oh there is even a specific commaSep parser. scratch my suggestion of explicitly using sepBy, then. 23:57:07 oerjan: hm, I don't like the look of that languagedef stuff 23:57:08 squares (commaSep p) :) 23:57:11 too much hand-waving magic.. 23:57:32 well yeah it does make some assumptions 23:58:07 there is a section describing those fields too 23:59:08 (The members of LanguageDef) 23:59:18 * Sgeo is implementing domain 0x06 23:59:59 it's of course designed to allow you to easily parse the tokens of an "ordinary" language