00:51:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:52:11 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 00:55:30 Notice to anyone who's been using Domain 0x08: Spec changes coming soon! 00:56:17 This will affect anyone using Net::makeserversocket, Net::urlget and Net::urlpost 00:56:24 Thank you for your cooperation 00:56:37 lol 01:01:18 -!- ehird has quit ("Leaving"). 01:06:48 -!- uvanta has quit ("php you!"). 01:06:51 -!- pikhq has quit ("Going down for new kernel."). 01:07:11 -!- ehird has joined. 01:09:08 re ehird 01:19:21 Anyone like the idea of BF-CHAT? A chat protocol for servers and clients written in BF? 01:19:52 I wouldn't chat on it. 01:20:01 Sgeo, what does "re" stand for? 01:20:15 re = rehi 01:20:23 rehi? 01:21:10 what's that? 01:21:25 re hello? 01:21:48 It's like "welcome back". 01:21:55 It is a repetition of hello. 01:22:18 you use "re" instead of "hello"? 01:22:36 "re" instead of "wb" when someone reconnects from a disconnect 01:22:42 oh ok 01:23:43 it's just that "re" is a greek word that doesn't mean anything special but fits nicely when beggining a message like "re ehird". :-) 01:23:57 something like "hey" 01:29:34 Sgeo: nobody likes that idea, by the way. 01:29:45 ehird, wha? 01:29:46 it's pointless. and not interesting. 01:29:55 let's put it this way: in which way is it interesting? 01:30:20 * Sgeo shrugs. It would be a chat protocol that non-geeky people really wouldn't use 01:30:28 And it's a cool PSOX demo 01:30:35 Sgeo, yeah just use IRC 01:30:39 I thougt 01:30:45 it would be a chat protocol that NOBODY would really use!! 01:30:53 and i'm pretty sure #esoteric has only geeks. 01:31:07 and it's not a cool PSOX demo beacuse it just represents more of the same psox crap 01:31:13 Anyone want to write an IRCd in BF? 01:31:30 no!! you take our criticisms far too specifically! 01:31:35 it's not the details, it's the ROOT IDEA 01:31:41 it's POINTLESS, and it's just NOT INTERESTING 01:31:59 ehird, so you're abandoning SOXP? What about a GUI domain? 01:32:28 SOXP is not a main project. I may code some relatively interesting bits 01:32:35 instead of writing a bloody ircd 01:33:08 What about writing a GUI domain for PSOX? 01:34:17 ITYM soxp 01:34:21 and, mildly interesting 01:34:39 ITYM? 01:35:55 i think you mean 01:36:42 You know, if SOXP has a compatibility layer for PSOX domains, you could write it for PSOX and it will work with both..\ 01:37:55 why would i want to write that? 01:38:19 Finished product sooner that would also work with newer technology? 01:38:20 -!- faxathisia has quit ("If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!"). 01:38:50 Sgeo, i could do it in fbf... :-P 01:39:27 i mean the irc client 01:40:25 Coolness 01:42:24 Net::socket is going to return a success byte, btw 01:42:39 ? 01:42:51 Function 8.0 01:44:21 well i still have no idea how psox works. i am reading the documentation now 01:45:12 but it's to late. and in 7 hours i must be sitting on a chair taking a test in computer architecture. (sleep included) 01:46:07 gnightttttt 01:46:19 Bai 01:46:20 G'night Tritonio_ 01:55:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:58:14 -!- ehird has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:00:24 re pikhq 02:09:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:09:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:15:25 Oh shi- 02:15:36 I just noticed what's wrong with my IO 02:15:42 Hmm? 02:16:15 Well, the input converts to church numerals 02:16:28 But the program makes an invalid expression. 02:42:46 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 02:49:32 Slereah, pikhq? 02:49:46 Yes? 02:50:16 Comments on what I just posted? 02:50:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:50:34 I bet that if I had 3D glasses, it would be awesome. 02:50:40 This was my comment. 02:50:46 lol 02:50:49 Hi GreaseMonkey 02:51:14 'lo 02:51:29 GreaseMonkey, comments on http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 ? 02:51:48 GET 3D SPECS GREASEMONKEY 02:52:01 i'd love to 02:52:09 bzflag supports them 02:52:44 Sgeo: svn checkout link? 02:53:06 oh, and wtf is all that @blah shit? 02:53:17 svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk 02:53:24 cheers 02:53:25 GreaseMonkey, Python decorators 02:53:43 which version were they introduced into? 02:53:48 i have python 2.4 02:53:55 I think 2.4, not sure though.. 02:53:57 although a 2.5-beta if i'm stuck 02:54:24 2.4 03:05:45 Does PSOX need SSL support/ 03:05:46 ? 03:07:09 No, let some Brainfuck coder implement SSL. 03:07:10 ;p 03:09:20 Is that even possible over ordinary sockets? 03:10:20 it should be. 03:10:49 also, i second pikhq. 03:11:08 pikhq, what do you think of my spec changes? 03:12:16 Sgeo: No thoughts ATM. 03:12:34 My weekends are much more likely to be used for PSOX. 03:13:35 Also, I'm thinking that the file I/O domain should contain a mkdir&cd function.. 03:13:45 Of course. 03:14:06 I mean a combined function 03:14:25 Maybe a cd function with an option to make the directory if it doesn't already exist 03:17:40 * GreaseMonkey thinks we should implement this... http://catseye.tc/projects/didigm/doc/didigm.html 03:53:20 * Sgeo makes another commit 03:54:17 and another with the fix for online.b 04:02:12 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 04:17:11 pikhq, what's the story with PEBBLE2? 04:17:51 Nothing ATM. 04:18:02 Except that I'm struggling to get myself to do much of anything. 04:18:13 Maybe in a month? 04:18:45 I have taken month long hiatuses wrt PSOX 04:18:55 It's kinda depressing, though. . . 04:19:04 PEBBLE1 had functioning code within 24 hours. 04:19:11 Not the greatest, but it worked. 04:24:54 I wish I had that sort of productivity 04:25:12 Which is more complex, PEBBLE1 or PSOX? 04:25:15 * Sgeo feels lame 04:30:21 pikhq? 04:31:38 Dunno. 04:31:54 My *initial* implementation of PEBBLE was a hell of a lot simpler than PSOX. . . 04:32:01 Modern PEBBLE? 04:32:15 I dunno; I'd say it's a bit more complex than PSOX. 04:32:17 *shrug* 04:33:20 * Sgeo feels lame for taking so long to get out a working implementationm 04:33:29 Also, I'm afraid I might never overhaul PSOX.py 04:33:34 Don't; I spent ages on my PEBBLE1 rewrite. 04:33:46 Which is quite complex. ;) 04:36:03 * Sgeo wonders what sort of things would go into PSOX 1.1 04:36:11 Exceptions would be cool 05:34:17 -!- immibis has joined. 05:37:07 hi immibis 05:38:56 hi 05:39:49 I made a change to the domain 0x08 specs 05:40:11 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 05:40:21 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88#file1 05:43:41 immibis, thoughts? 05:50:16 what is it? 05:50:57 i see...it's a diff...but what good is it to me 05:53:36 although if i were you i wouldn't change function numbers like that -- it breaks compatibility 05:56:06 Well, there's not much current content out there 05:56:15 >.> But I guess in general it's a bad idea 05:59:58 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:11:23 -!- olsner has joined. 06:21:18 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:29:32 -!- cherez has joined. 06:46:41 -!- olsner has quit. 06:47:34 -!- olsner has joined. 07:18:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:25 -!- immibis has quit ("NickServ (GHOST'ed by gravisan"). 08:53:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)"). 12:01:31 -!- Corun has joined. 12:13:04 -!- timotiis has joined. 12:25:58 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 12:46:09 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:07:18 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 16:49:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:03:36 -!- uvanta has joined. 17:08:30 -!- ehird has joined. 17:40:24 So: 3+4 = 2 17:41:16 I disagree. 17:41:25 Prove me wrong. In ternary. 17:42:13 3 and 4 do not exist in ternary 17:44:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:44:41 No, prove that in its decimal form wrong; using ternary 17:46:08 I think I'll have a mkdir fucntion with optional cd, as opposed to a cd function with optional mkdir.. 17:46:21 10 xor 11 = 01 17:46:40 Hm. Wait. 17:46:49 How do I do addition with ternary symbols. 17:47:00 3 + 4 = 7. 17:47:02 Thar. 17:47:43 Slereah, ehird, any comment on what I just said? 17:48:37 Two thumbs up, go for it. 17:49:39 Has anyone heard of Linux? It’s a new kind of Windows, but it’s free. I’ve read up on it, and it seems that it’s created and supported by ultra-liberals. Its creator, Richard Stallman, is even a satanist. 17:49:39 They call themselves “hackers”, and their aim is to destroy every big company, everything that is conservative. I can’t tolerate this sort of persecution. The LORD himself was a conservative and he was nailed to a tree for it. It won’t be long before all of us are crucified too if Linux succeeds. 17:49:41 :D 17:50:37 Slereah: I wonder how many people took that seriously? 17:50:38 :P 17:50:44 Sgeo: why not two functions 17:50:49 GOSH IT'S SO OBVIOuS (!!) 17:50:50 Slereah, where's this? 17:51:00 http://www.fstdt.com 17:51:01 ehird, what use is there for a CD that might error? 17:51:13 I think it's more useful as a combined function 17:51:18 Sgeo: Ask all the people who wrote sane shells. 17:51:35 You don't know how basic filesystem operations would work; they know more about that kind of stuff than you (as a rule of thumb for any programming by anyone) 17:51:42 Slereah: ah, that's bad ... i think it's satire 17:51:57 It's always hard to see where the trolls are 17:52:35 trolling != satire 17:56:16 ehird, what use is there for bf to be calling a cd command? 17:56:47 I'd think that a BF program would want to attempt to switch to a directory, and make it if it doesn't exist 17:58:00 Also, are most BF interps wrapping? If not, how does one do if(cell==5) for example without wrapping? 17:59:00 not wrapping as in "crashes if you go below zero?" 17:59:13 or not wrapping as in doesn't wrap 17:59:26 in the latter case, no different from a wrapping solution 18:00:11 Sgeo knows nearly nothing about what real-world program do, or what most brainfuck interpreters do, or how to write tons of algorithms in it, yet he advertises PSOX as the way to write 'real programs' in brainfuck. 18:00:12 :-| 18:00:15 oklopol, how could it be no different? 18:00:41 Hell, I don't either! 18:00:53 That never stopped me from coding shit 18:01:20 Sgeo: it just isn't any different, too trivial to explain 18:01:29 ----- 18:02:04 That doesn't distinguish between 5 and 4 in nonwrapping, afaict 18:02:11 Slereah: It stopped you from coding something which is intended to be used to write large Brainfuck programs, though, 18:02:31 Sgeo: lolwut? 18:02:34 Sgeo: always check for larger numbers before smaller 18:02:35 duh 18:02:47 * ehird is incredibly sad of how ignorant Sgeo is of brainfuck algorithms 18:03:20 It didn't stop me. What stopped me is the fact that I don't want to :o 18:03:20 Sgeo: WHAT 18:04:04 For GUI BF applications, which would be better: A lot of ifs in a loop, or the program checking one element, then another, etc? 18:04:12 I'm thinking the first option 18:04:15 Opinions? 18:04:42 Sgeo: i suggest you work out how to code in brainfuck first. 18:04:48 Sgeo: my opinion is you should explain why it does not distinguish between 4 and 5 18:05:42 oklopol, um, wouldn't nonwrapping noncrash mean that ----- when it was at 4 make it zero, or am I misunderstanding "nonwrapping noncrash"? 18:05:58 ohhh 18:06:08 well 18:06:28 making - a nop if the current cell is zero would essentially be the same as crashing 18:06:31 neither makes any sense 18:06:49 oklopol: and besides, if you check higher numbers before smaller, you have no problem 18:06:52 So by nonwrapping you meant it goes negative? 18:07:04 yes. 18:07:06 oh 18:07:28 What happens when you . a negative? 18:07:31 oklopol: saturating on decrement at 0 is reasonably sensible behaviour 18:07:37 it makes less-than really easy to write 18:07:48 hmm 18:07:56 i don't approve of it 18:08:02 * oklopol prepares his chainsaw 18:08:20 Sgeo: everything is implementation defined 18:08:22 always 18:08:45 How many implementations crash on negative, and on those, how would you do if(cell==5)? 18:08:45 speaking of which, there's no active esolang standards comitte 18:09:01 as soon as we come up with a good acronym, let's start one! 18:09:04 :p 18:09:08 * ais523 wants to be on it 18:09:15 Sgeo: those are not brainfuck. 18:09:18 ais523: but of course 18:09:37 Sgeo: i used to use this thing called Blue Fern, killed my brainfuck interp in brainfuck with its "crash on decrement zero" 18:09:39 i would even go to say that just 'brainfuck' is 30,000+ cell, 8-bit, wrapping brainfuck 18:09:40 Esoteric Standards Organisation would be ESO, which is nicely self-referential 18:09:57 ais523: let's add TERIC to that 18:10:22 So it's easy enough to do IFs? 18:10:37 Should I go with the first option I mentioned, or the second? 18:10:38 Esoteric Standards Organization: Tier-based Evil Recursive Induction (Crap) 18:10:39 Sgeo: shure 18:10:40 ais523: :D 18:10:51 Let's work on the Brainfuck Standard Eso 0001 18:10:58 Let me find a tie first. 18:10:59 hay, Slereah 18:11:00 slow down 18:11:00 :( 18:11:07 I don't have a tie, so I'll use a bandana. 18:11:07 EOF will be the major problem 18:11:16 no matter what we decide on someone will be disappointed 18:11:18 ais523: haha, if we use ESOTERIC we can't have our own channel 18:11:28 ok 18:11:30 #ESO 18:14:10 1337 it 18:14:13 #350 18:15:08 we should make something like projecteuler.net for esolangs 18:21:52 -!- otesanek has joined. 18:33:55 -!- otesanek has left (?). 18:38:25 Just to be sure, BF programs can print 0xFF? 18:39:04 Isn't it a blank character anyway? 18:39:16 yes, they can, generally speaking 18:42:57 * Sgeo goes to make some optimizations to the BF interp 18:43:01 not BF interp 18:43:03 PSOX interp 18:43:17 Should make importing domains MUCH faster 18:43:30 At the expense of a tiny bit of ugliness 18:46:57 Just replacing FNUM(1) with FNUM1 19:11:52 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 19:12:18 Sgeo: younger programmers might get the wrong idea, watching you take it seriously. 19:12:21 Hi wildhalcyon 19:12:27 Hi Sgeo 19:12:53 Sgeo: it's true.. 19:12:54 Hi. 19:12:57 you make brainfuck sound useful 19:13:05 or even interesting beyond the initial 'hey, that's awesome' 19:13:06 -!- Slereah has changed nick to slereah_. 19:13:11 the last interesting program was mandelbrot.b or life.b 19:13:20 Brainfuck isn't about usefulness. 19:13:23 lostkng.b was pretty cool, but not that much (it's a good stress test) 19:13:25 It's about sweat and blood! 19:13:49 brainfuck is not useful. Interesting or fun, perhaps, but not useful. 19:13:57 It's about having a short TC language to make interpreters out of. 19:13:59 wildhalcyon: sgeo is trying to make it useful 19:14:14 because ooh, aah, you can write a web page or an irc bot in BRAINFUCK! ooh, aah 19:14:20 "Like gluing auto parts on a skateboard" 19:14:28 -!- BrainF has joined. 19:14:28 Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . 19:14:28 -!- BrainF has quit (Client Quit). 19:14:35 slereah_: Exactly! daniel has it right. 19:14:47 Sgeo: wow, great way to prove my point 19:14:58 HOLY SHIT, THE BRAINFUCK, IT TALKS! 19:15:09 Just because it CAN do something doesn't mean it should... 19:15:34 Sgeo: thinking about extending that? 19:16:26 -!- slereah_ has changed nick to Slereah. 19:16:36 oklopol, hm? 19:17:18 want me to define 'extend'? 19:17:39 i meant, make it actually do something 19:17:57 I'm not skilled enough in BF for that 19:18:31 you don't learn if you don't try 19:18:39 anyway, i'll be doing some going now -> 19:18:51 Bai 19:19:44 later 19:20:10 Has anyone here worked with the befunge-98 fingerprints? 19:20:36 I've run funge-98 code that uses them, but didn't write the source code 19:20:43 or take more than a passing glance to see what it was doing 19:21:13 Hmm, alright 19:22:38 wildhalcyon, PSOX has a somewhat similar idea 19:23:25 erm, actually, not really, something more analygous to handprints is there, but not fingerprints I think 19:23:35 Yeah, but its not embedded into the language. Its only available for I/O. 19:25:53 Okay, I get it 19:26:08 Yeah, the handprint thing is nice for befunge 19:28:01 ehird, ais523: re the discussion in ESO: One thing that would make it incompatible with everything currently existing would be that you do ,, per char, the first one is 0x00 if there is an EOF, 0x01 otherwise, the next one is the char, or 0x00 if there was EOF 19:29:12 Sgeo: that's psox semantics. 19:29:13 gtfo :P 19:29:37 It's unambiguous 19:29:55 ofc, you probably couldn't call it BF then.. 19:31:37 isn't ESO the esoteric operating system? 19:32:22 it could be both 19:32:26 the more ambiguity the better 19:32:58 ESO is ESO compatible. 19:33:03 As decided by ESO. 19:33:06 Slereah: YES! 19:33:07 :D 19:48:46 so what is ESO? 19:49:18 Esoteric Standards Organisation. 19:53:25 Oh 19:53:28 ouch 19:53:45 wildhalcyon: 'ouch'? 19:54:01 it sounds so.. official 19:54:05 brainfuck, at least, needs standardisation so we can finally get rid of that EOF problem 19:54:07 What GUI thingy should I use for a PSOX GUI domain? 19:54:10 wildhalcyon: That is totally the point! 19:54:11 :D 19:54:22 and IMO we need a base INTERCAL standard to deal with the proliferation of various features since INTERCAL-72 19:54:23 There is no EOF problem for BF programs using PSOX 19:54:24 We are even going to have a domain, with email addresses using full names. 19:54:32 and write it using XML, with xml2rfc 19:54:37 sort of like C, which had a de facto standard for a while and was finally cleaned up 19:55:51 The standard barely saved C. 19:56:21 C was in serious danger of losing its personality and devolving into a horrible mish-mash of parts and pieces. 19:56:28 .. which is what happened in the end anyways 19:57:09 I don't fear much for Brainfuck becoming a mish mash. 19:57:24 Even PSOX will not soil its purity! 19:57:27 stupid Windows... I insert a USB stick, it spends ages doing something or other before it recognises it, then pops up a balloon saying how clever it's being installing drivers, then /while it's doing that/ I save my file to the USB stick, and then after that it tells me I need to restart my computer to be able to use the USB stick 19:57:56 wildhalcyon: #ESO -- come and make sure we don't do something evil? :P 19:58:50 ehird, I will only come to help you do something evil 19:59:05 OK, good point 19:59:29 ais, I'm afraid windows is a rather... dimwitted individual 19:59:59 If it was smart, it would either recognize that it doesn't need to install anything, or it wouldn't let you touch it until it finished installing 20:00:09 wildhalcyon: I'm aware, the reason I'd plugged in the USB stick was to transfer files to my Linux laptop 20:01:46 I know, I just like poking fun of windows 20:01:59 so do I 20:02:12 Hmm, I think chatzilla hates me 20:04:55 ais523: I had Forte's idea for years before I even heard of esolangs 20:05:02 I just wondered what would happen if you could assign numbers to other ones 20:05:21 some Fortran interps could do that, but didn't take it to its logical conclusion 20:05:36 i think it might be one of those things that everyone thinks of 20:05:37 of course, BANCStar also allows that, for twisted reasons of its own 20:05:43 like the 'what if everyone else sees colours different from anyone else?' 20:05:45 and it isn't even an esolang, technically speaking 20:05:49 i have not met one person who didn't use to think that 20:10:29 darn it 20:12:21 Bah 20:13:39 wildhalcyon: Bahrn it. 20:13:56 Yes, hybrid curse words are the best\ 20:15:24 What a gosh darned cunt! 20:16:48 That's the way to tell 'em 20:24:20 So, even though I don't have anything hard to show for it, I've come up with a name for my project 20:28:07 wildhalcyon: what is it? 20:29:12 Names are important. 20:29:17 They're hard to come up with. 20:29:24 Just look at NTCM! 20:29:29 I have names for most of my esolangs 20:29:31 Even I don't call it by that name. 20:29:50 but I have a strange aversion to using them in public before the lang is 'officially' released 20:30:02 and just talk about 'my uncomputable Prolog-like language' or whatever 20:30:12 sorry, had to step out :-) 20:30:19 My project name is NeuroNIX 20:30:29 * Slereah launches a Prolog program in a Hogart space time 20:30:32 the name sounds like it's a neural-network operating system 20:30:40 that's the idea 20:30:48 but its not a neural network in the strict sense 20:30:55 * ais523 would like to see that 20:30:58 Its just a grid of fungeoid processors 20:31:15 so its networked LIKE neurons... sort.. of... 20:31:27 makes sense 20:31:56 I really just liked the name 20:32:06 so do I 20:32:08 and I too would like to see a neural network operating system 20:41:18 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Text 20:41:20 Meh. 20:42:50 Slereah: that's not 2d 20:43:24 Nah. It's just the last article 20:59:32 I would debate whether the authorship of that language was correct 21:00:04 Ahah, it works! 21:00:19 Now, my 2,3 machine display random characters instead of three! 21:01:09 one of my favourite quines (a UNIX executable): 21:01:12 #!/bin/cat 21:01:14 Alright, I gotta head out. Good luck in your endeavours 21:01:16 it works in Perl too. 21:01:41 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]"). 21:06:42 I don't know how ls listings should be expressed in PSOX :/ 21:23:20 Hm 21:23:37 How would Taxi work with PSOX? Reading in involves reading a line.. 21:26:38 I guess I could provide a loopback function.. 21:39:59 : If any of you have a gripe with the name 'eso-std.org' or a suggestion for a better one, PLEASE INFORM ME 21:40:39 er, CLARIFICATION: the domain name eso-std.org, not the org name (Esoteric Standards Organization) 21:43:42 ais523: oklopol: Slereah: Sgeo: : LAST RFC ON THE DOMAIN NAME... 21:43:51 eso-disease.org? 21:43:56 >.> sorry 21:45:25 Sgeo: do you have any objections or suggestions for a better name than eso-std.org? 21:45:41 other than maybe eso-standard.org not really 21:45:48 * Sgeo is ok with eso-std.org 21:45:56 std seems better, like open-std.org 21:46:02 (can't remember whether that has a hyphen or not) 21:46:15 eso-standard.org looks kinda ugly 21:46:34 * Sgeo agrees with ehird 21:46:36 and ais523 21:51:39 ais523: should we use a more general name for eso-std.org? 21:51:44 since it will house non-standard-related things too 21:52:10 that's an interesting point 21:52:24 I'd kind of prefer to have it like the w3c, which also hosts validators, etc. 21:52:31 but is a standards org really 21:52:45 ais523: well, it also has repos 21:52:46 after all, reference interps are part of the standardisation process 21:52:48 and implementation's sites 21:52:49 and pastebins 21:52:50 etc 21:52:57 ais523: yes, but e.g. the underload compiler will be there 21:52:59 and that won't be official 21:53:21 it's not really official, more an informative annex 21:53:26 which aids understanding of the standard 21:53:33 i.e. "How this language can be compiled" 21:53:47 ais523: yes, but there will be stuff totally unrelated to standards there too 21:58:57 We will spend more on hospitals! 21:58:57 We will jail anyone not in jail already! 21:58:57