< 1203292815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some strange unicode i cannot read on that proto-indoeuropean in http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facio#Latin < 1203292824 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now don't tell me the English word "chase" comes from "fugare". < 1203292864 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proto-Indo-European notation is ridiculous. :-P < 1203292875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay, göa just sounded pretty. < 1203292891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to understand, i've been drawing eer diagrams for hours. < 1203292897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I start referring to Agora as Agöra? < 1203292908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the buggiest drawing program in the world < 1203292912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually "chase" is from latin "captare", it says < 1203292947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if there's a linux port for paint... i miss paint... < 1203292961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be slightly surprised if the word "capture" didn't come from the same word. < 1203292966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1203293012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they're both probably derived from capere < 1203293038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "capital" and "cabeza" both come from the same Latin word, I'd expect. < 1203293053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital is from caput, i think < 1203293057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := head < 1203293185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cognate with head, more or less < 1203293202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old English h.afod, from Proto-Germanic *khaubuthan, from Proto-Indo-European *kauput- (..head, bowl..). Cognate with German Haupt, Dutch hoofd, Swedish huvud; the Indo-European root is also the source of Latin caput." < 1203293251 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203293276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h.afod from *khaubuthan? < 1203293312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that . is e with a bar btw < 1203293352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indo-european k -> germanic h is pretty basic < 1203293386 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you still have the fod from buthan. < 1203293389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is p -> f < 1203293410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how the proto-germanic fits in between < 1203293434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and t -> th which must have been weakened afterwards < 1203293470 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, I guess. < 1203293482 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "an" on the end was just a passing fad, then. :-P < 1203293491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm's_law < 1203293500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just an inflection yeah < 1203293633 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203293654 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203293923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be an entire class of nouns getting vowel+n endings in germanic, in norwegian the ending turns into -e, sometimes called "weak" nouns < 1203293933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german has something of the same, though not in this word (e.g. Name, with occasional -n) < 1203293933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's "hode" in norwegian) < 1203293968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äöo. yuao. ööai. {ns} < 1203294040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some norwegian dialects inflect weak nouns rather differently from strong ones) < 1203294116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the case in swedish too i think, e.g. plural -or vs. -ar < 1203294144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mother is a weak noun. < 1203294877 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203295029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! the th -> d is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verner%27s_law < 1203295056 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics? Here? < 1203295065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1203295066 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, this is all your fault :o < 1203295094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mostly mine < 1203295100 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course! #linguistics doesn't exist--wait, actually, it's much bigger than this channel. < 1203295126 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203295199 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has almost a long novemnonagintilliard people in it. < 1203295235 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is 10^597. < 1203295265 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a whole lot of people. < 1203295292 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203295542 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as much as a long centillion, though. < 1203295597 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less a long nongennovemnonagintilliard. < 1203295619 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity. Plus one. < 1203295695 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203295719 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasp. < 1203295837 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a fun word: milliatillion. < 1203295854 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^3003. < 1203295859 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203295884 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really, above 10^100, things start to get useless. < 1203295903 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above that, it's mostly silly probabilities and theoretical mathematics. < 1203295922 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203296041 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: graham's < 1203296060 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number, the biggest important number. < 1203296084 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203296087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi calamari < 1203296098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you been keeping up with PSOX? < 1203296104 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry < 1203296110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One word: wget.b < 1203296122 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big? < 1203296130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203296130 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203296144 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203296146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually fairly trivial with Sgeo's SVN; it has an HTTP domain. < 1203296154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(binding HTTP to a file descriptor) < 1203296159 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number isn't very important. < 1203296176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the largest important number. < 1203296178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: the real value is closer to 6, apparently. < 1203296178 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any bigger numbers that have any importance at all? < 1203296189 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at least 11 and probably bigger. < 1203296219 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's bigger than 11, it shouldn't be too far from Graham's number. < 1203296234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, Graham's number is too large to be written in scientific notation. < 1203296314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did you have any trouble writing wget.b? If so, what? < 1203296315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there seems to be a typo in the Verner article, th -> d should be th -> dh < 1203296317 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll write a program to list out the name of a number. < 1203296360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The cat bit was slightly difficult, actually. < 1203296375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even that wasn't too hard, since PSOX has decent debugging facilities. < 1203296383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i? < 1203296391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; that was really helpful. < 1203296393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203296595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was basically made while trying to chase down a bug which turned out to be a * where there shouldn't have been a * < 1203296673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing stupid about psox < 1203296676 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is its safety stuff.. < 1203296678 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the os provides that stuff alread < 1203296679 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203296717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cool < 1203296736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, PSOX in general, or wget.b, or what? < 1203296740 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1203296746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203296757 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it require a special interpreter? < 1203296774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes, svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1203296794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not a BF interpreter itself < 1203296798 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so all the existing esolang interpreters/compilers will need to be redone to support psox? < 1203296809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes between a standard interpreter and stdio < 1203296812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, not at all < 1203296824 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1203296826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misunderstood your question, is all < 1203296835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: will you remove the safety stuff? honestly, my os is very good at that and its going to be a pain coding the domains i want to with it < 1203296846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, it's going to be a pain to do: < 1203296855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "nogui" in G.SAFETYLIST: < 1203296861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY_VERSION = 0 < 1203296863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else: < 1203296866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY_VERSION = 1 < 1203296869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pain? < 1203296882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the whole idea is a pain < 1203296884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean ffi? If ffi, just make the domain require ffi as a safety option < 1203296908 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the whole idea is a pain < 1203296916 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security? < 1203296917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a pain? < 1203296923 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. safety < 1203296927 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1203296936 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it is half-assed disabling of certain functions in psox. < 1203296941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G=g64, where g1 = 3^^^^3, and gn = 3^(gn-1)3. . . < 1203296943 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can already be done from within the os < 1203296947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy hell, that's big. < 1203296951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, on the command line, if for example, I don't want PSOX to go online, I can give the commandline option -s nonet < 1203296957 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or you could tell your os. < 1203296967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I want to allow it to go outside the sandbox, I can give -s fullfileio < 1203296979 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: if i removed the safety right now, how many people do you think will notice? < 1203296980 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203296985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I will < 1203297020 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... because you like the feature; not because of it being any good < 1203297034 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that if you don't want certain functions, you could run it sandboxed or as a less privileged user < 1203297062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's your opinion on the safety debate? < 1203297068 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: exactly. < 1203297082 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for windows, that wouldn't work very well :) < 1203297083 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively... if you don't want to do that... just remove the import from the code! seriously. < 1203297088 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: see what i just said < 1203297090 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1203297096 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't run external code without reading it < 1203297098 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're paranoid like that < 1203297103 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just like downloading and running a perl script!! < 1203297112 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about as readable too. < 1203297145 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: did you help write PSOX? < 1203297160 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: no, but i have svn access since a few seconds ago < 1203297168 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have sat by and complained since forever < 1203297168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ehird helped shape some parts, and is now trying to redo how I/O is done < 1203297177 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write a gui domain < 1203297178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ffi domain < 1203297181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a domain domain < 1203297182 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: just seems like you're kinda hostile towards it ..hehe < 1203297190 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: just that feature. :-) < 1203297206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ehird`_ has been less hostile towards it since he pointed out that most of the bitwise stuff could be removed < 1203297214 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it? < 1203297219 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes. < 1203297221 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203297223 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean stuff. < 1203297228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird`_ originally became hostile when some stuff he suggested was removed (TDATA (the "ANY" type)) < 1203297232 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean sure < 1203297237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, boolean, not bitwise < 1203297238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mybad < 1203297239 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nah < 1203297240 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was before that < 1203297241 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203297241 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203297245 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise is hard for bf tho.. and/or/xor < 1203297252 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not impossible < 1203297256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I meant removed boolean < 1203297273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt < 1203297307 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can i just remove the safety stuff and we'll see who exactly is going to write a brainfuck virus and regular people who won't read the code will download it, psox, an interpreter, and blindly run it? < 1203297357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I don't see why you're so violently opposed to the safety stuff < 1203297388 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's crap pointless and will make writing stuff harder for no reason < 1203297406 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fine with the safety stuff as long as there's some switch to disable it. < 1203297422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_, there's really nothing to disable < 1203297430 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: nobody will use it < 1203297431 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the safety stuff, then? < 1203297441 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iit's just pointless and doesn't help devs < 1203297444 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1203297456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_, putting -s nonet to disable internet acces, or -s fullfileio to not force file I/O to be in a sandbox < 1203297483 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which is of course useless as your os can do it anyway < 1203297486 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just edit the psox code < 1203297487 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are these options defined by the libraries, or are they hardcoded into the executable? < 1203297494 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File I/O is in a sandbox by default? < 1203297496 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: libraries have to go around them... < 1203297497 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: yep < 1203297499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, defined by the libraries < 1203297502 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'normal users' aren't going to use psox anyway < 1203297507 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who will use psox < 1203297510 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN READ BRAINFUCK CODE!! < 1203297520 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is JUST LIKE downloading a Perl program, can't you see that Sgeo? < 1203297524 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even Java! < 1203297531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said I can read Brainfuck code written by others? < 1203297533 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come they don't have any need for it; but PSOX does? < 1203297541 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And WHO IS GOING TO WRITE A BRAINFUCK&PSOX VIRUS? < 1203297542 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so if I'm writing my own library calamari::blah .. it could add -s abcd to do something? < 1203297549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes < 1203297553 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you see...? < 1203297557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203297560 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there other safeties that are enabled by default? < 1203297564 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that seems fine to me.. *shrug* < 1203297580 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't you see, though? I honestly don't see how you don't get what I'm saying < 1203297593 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, it seems that there is indeed something to disable. < 1203297606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: if I'm understanding what he is saying.. you don't even need to worry about the safety stuff if you don't care < 1203297620 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: you most certainly do < 1203297644 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: why? if my calamari:: library doesn't want to respect -s nonet, it would just ignore it < 1203297662 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ahh but it needs to respect -s nocalamarilibrary < 1203297668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What calamari said < 1203297673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also if i want stuff included in the main psox distro < 1203297674 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to < 1203297691 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Name one use case for the safety, and tell me how it is different from just running a Perl script? < 1203297700 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, tell me who will write a PSOX virus. < 1203297708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, someone who hated me < 1203297714 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203297718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other PSOX fanatic who is unable to read BF code < 1203297719 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: if you don't like the standard library, make one without the safety stuff.. problem solved? < 1203297719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203297730 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU SGEO!! Wait.. I know... I'll write a PSOX virus! < 1203297734 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! < 1203297739 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203297749 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's psox? < 1203297762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX < 1203297772 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, what if I can't read Perl? < 1203297773 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1203297775 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: it's an esolang wrapper that extends its functionality < 1203297790 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem functions etc? < 1203297793 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1203297797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_, eventually, yes < 1203297806 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory management? < 1203297809 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here are some scenarios: < 1203297812 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I don't know Perl < 1203297813 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraps around stdin and stdout? < 1203297815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_, currently, there are only math utilities and HTTP < 1203297815 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. I download a Perl script < 1203297816 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. I run it < 1203297818 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- < 1203297823 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I don't know Brainfuck. < 1203297826 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http??? lol. nice... < 1203297828 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. But I have a brainfuck interpreter and PSOX! < 1203297835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. And I like downloading PSOX programs! < 1203297840 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. And someone has written a PSOX virus! < 1203297843 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. And I download it and run it! < 1203297860 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Perl script is 5 times more likely to be a virus; PSOX just does not have the need for these features. < 1203297892 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: I like the idea that my code will have the ability to read command line options < 1203297909 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Sure. That's great and all. I'm just highlighting a problem. < 1203297912 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why don't you simply map the functions of a high level language? like python... < 1203297926 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PSOX will offer normal command-line argument handling, presumably. < 1203297928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, thing is, there is a virtual command line that a PSOX client can read (-c fakecommandline) < 1203297947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit ugly, but I don't know how to do it better < 1203297954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b uses it < 1203297972 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that sounds fine.. sh/bash do it that way < 1203298010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, but that weighs in in ehird`_'s favor in the debate, so -s isn't needed for that sort of functionality < 1203298018 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do -c -s nogui < 1203298042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think that would leave the virtual command line blank actually < 1203298046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works < 1203298050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1203298057 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c "-s nonet" < 1203298074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c would generally be used for the client to read < 1203298083 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the program would have to handle it < 1203298090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s is instructions to the libraries usually regarding what to allow and not to allow < 1203298091 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than PSOX < 1203298101 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203298128 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how about this? -s HTTP=no < 1203298135 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd disable HTTP:: < 1203298152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'm not sure how I'd go about coding that < 1203298163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that does make sense < 1203298168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't HTTP definied in its own file? < 1203298173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how optionparser works < 1203298181 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1203298185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the safety stuff could be stored in a dictionary I guess < 1203298195 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I.. haven't really studied perl.. just python < 1203298215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference PSOX interpreter is Python < 1203298219 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203298221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is in Python < 1203298221 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just loading&unloading domains < 1203298221 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the libraries wouldn't have to deal with safety at all < 1203298224 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fully reasonable < 1203298227 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its nothing to do with safety < 1203298233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes they would < 1203298233 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh cool < 1203298251 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no they woulen't < 1203298251 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can help you then.. I've done a lot with python parsing < 1203298259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203298261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, currently, PSOX.py uses regex < 1203298262 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feature is trivial < 1203298280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/PSOX.py < 1203298319 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203298357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, you just removed safety from the trunk < 1203298361 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION smirks
< 1203298367 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how long it would take you to notice. < 1203298481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_ broke PSOX < 1203298486 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203298487 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1203298489 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203298496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY_VERSION is required < 1203298552 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed it < 1203298582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, no you didn't < 1203298586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fixed it in one place < 1203298591 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the rest were already fixed < 1203298591 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1203298594 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have MY_VERSION < 1203298605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc_exampledomain? < 1203298611 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298613 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203298624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one of the system domain functions looks at G.SAFETYLIST < 1203298627 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okies < 1203298629 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll fix too :P < 1203298643 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298643 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203298645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, going to fix the specs too? < 1203298647 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's specifically safety-related < 1203298652 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i'll comment it out and reserve it for use < 1203298673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tyes < 1203298689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, pikhq, do either of you find it objectionable that ehird`_ just unilaterally made a change without my permission? < 1203298705 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1203298708 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think anyone noticed < 1203298710 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody used it. < 1203298761 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, all fixed and spec updated. < 1203298820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, python PSOX.py python testcustdomain.py isn't working < 1203298836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you still importing SAFETYLIST? < 1203298840 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1203298843 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK i fixed that < 1203298845 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe in PSOX.py < 1203298846 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1203298854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not in PSOX.py < 1203298859 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203298860 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then time to hunt < 1203298893 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298894 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exampledomain < 1203298897 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks grep(1) < 1203298932 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be ok now < 1203298939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could have assigned a blank list to G.SAFETYLIST < 1203298972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works now < 1203298975 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dunno why.. but I gues I had to see something like wget before I woke up and got interested :) < 1203298994 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not completely thrilled by the impl.. seems like it could be simpler < 1203299007 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it could be < 1203299012 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could practically golf it < 1203299036 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you don't mind.. I may fool around with a fork and see what comes of it < 1203299040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, thank pikhq for wget.b < 1203299054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't mind
< 1203299063 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you like it, could merge it < 1203299069 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: please don't add safety... i can't be bothered to have another debate < 1203299070 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203299078 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: lol.. < 1203299090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, we really haven't finished our debate, you unilaterally removed safety < 1203299092 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you agreed with what I had to say about it I think < 1203299101 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Would a C psox be a good idea? < 1203299117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, not if it would be difficult to implement domains < 1203299118 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as the main impl. Justification: < 1203299121 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, no. < 1203299125 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can embed Python and stuff. < 1203299125 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: C isn't good at dynamically importing stuff, is it? < 1203299131 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: dlopen < 1203299137 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen? < 1203299139 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen. < 1203299145 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But I mean, the justification < 1203299149 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that C has the best library support < 1203299152 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the FFI would be the richest < 1203299168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd tie it down to linux only < 1203299179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or posix or whatever < 1203299181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1203299181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203299184 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen is on windows to < 1203299186 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1203299204 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be suggesting that all os's have the same libraries < 1203299204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Linux only is not an option. I complicated retrieving input so PSOX would work with Windows < 1203299217 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not read.. < 1203299229 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I assume Sgeo isn't actively planning to support VMS. < 1203299237 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I just said.. < 1203299243 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen is on windows < 1203299259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you write a 3-line wrapper for it < 1203299260 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: can you give a dhopen example? I am not familiar with it < 1203299267 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen, sorry < 1203299268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you embed C into Python? < 1203299268 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: eh, google... not off the top of my head < 1203299276 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, that's not quite the point. < 1203299283 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, you can't without a lot of horrid pain. < 1203299309 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: the advantage of python is that it is cross platform with a standard set of libraries < 1203299317 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is pretty standard. < 1203299323 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c has more libraries, too. < 1203299330 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you overestimate how complex psox is... < 1203299336 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many libraries it'd need to use < 1203299340 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is.. but besides the std lib, nothing else is standard < 1203299349 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s->c < 1203299372 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd pretty much have to install cygwin to use it < 1203299390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One objection to a C interp as ref is that I don't know C < 1203299457 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203299457 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1203299458 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't. < 1203299459 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203299462 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1203299474 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can write it as libc with a few wrappers for dlopen < 1203299475 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1203299480 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+python stuff, if wanted < 1203299508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please provide a simple example, even if it's pseudocode < 1203299532 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: of what. < 1203299545 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1203299552 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen("foo.so", flag); < 1203299554 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1203299560 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open_wrap("foo"); < 1203299565 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will call the win32api on windows < 1203299570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1203299571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.so < 1203299579 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's foo.dll < 1203299583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1203299605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no guarantee that foo.so and foo.dll are even compatible < 1203299611 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ... < 1203299613 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for psox domains < 1203299616 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1203299618 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and posix < 1203299621 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will be compiled to .so < 1203299622 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1203299623 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.dll < 1203299627 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wrapper will handle it < 1203299631 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is hard to understand about this? < 1203307411 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203307411 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203307415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi clog < 1203307434 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is more cohesive < 1203307450 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all file I/O can go into a domain < 1203307466 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than be a PSOX core function < 1203307473 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203307506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So both you and ehird want the same thing? < 1203307516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: Shoving I/O into a domain? < 1203307522 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example if you imported a domain dedicated to input to 0x01, then you'd say 0x01 "text" 0x00 .. something like that < 1203307571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd probably be more of an i/o domain, with file handling, etc < 1203307585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why these redesigns now when PSOX is so close to completion of 1.0? < 1203307590 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIXED < 1203307601 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm not saying you should redesign anything < 1203307630 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll implement it separately.. and then we can get together and see what we think of it < 1203307647 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way if it doesn't work out, you haven't lost a thing < 1203307653 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound ok? < 1203307714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but it seems like a lot of effort on your part for something that IMO isn't really needed < 1203307742 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand < 1203307840 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 6am here so i am going to sleep. i'll check it thoroughly tomorrow. calamari use this for reading from the table: >[>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[->+<]<[->+<]<[->+<]>-]>>>[-]<[->+<]<[[-<+>]<<<[->>>>+<<<<]>>-]<< i think it's ok. but maybe it's not... < 1203307845 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight everyone. < 1203307857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night Tritonio_ < 1203308511 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: ok thanks.. < 1203308623 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: dunno if you will see this, but I never used the reading code < 1203308637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was examining the values directly from BF memory < 1203309079 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TDATA is mentioned in psox-types.txt then never defined < 1203309125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh right, that's old < 1203309201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY old < 1203309214 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-types.txt < 1203309218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it's 2 days old < 1203309242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov. 8, 2007 old < 1203309258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revision 10 old < 1203309266 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is STRINGNL needed for? I see the description, but why wouldn't a STRING work? < 1203309289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A STRING would work, but it's a bit of overhead to have a 0x00 right at the end before the 0x0A < 1203309308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, does every command have to end with 0x0A? < 1203309374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would, since you read lines only < 1203309483 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no floating point? < 1203309487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is for any esolang interpreters that only write out on a newline < 1203309491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No floating point < 1203309606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, just learned something about python.. j gives you imaginary numbers.. so a=1j, a+=1 gives a=(1+1j) < 1203309635 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j=sqrt(1) < 1203309639 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err -1 < 1203309704 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bytes is an FNUM? < 1203309785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNUM(1) is 1 byte, FNUM(2) is two bytes, etc < 1203310163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox_net.txt does this look good so far? < 1203310264 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1203310270 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda tired now < 1203310542 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you guys consider another data representation for unknown length, escaped ASCII... where 0x01-0xFF are as normal, 0x00 0x00 = 0x00, 0x00 0xelse=EOF? < 1203310573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that might not be easy for BF to process < 1203310573 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would possibly incur less overhead than LNUM/LBYTES < 1203310657 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be too bad.. you'd use the standard if=0 code < 1203310833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1203310845 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not eof { data=read_byte; if=0 { data=read_byte; if<>0 { set_eof } }; if !eof { do_something_with_read_byte } } < 1203310850 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1203310868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1203310954 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does meh mean? < 1203310986 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that a way of dismissing what I said without actually coming up with a refutation? < 1203311001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most exquisitly horrible < 1203311015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1203311033 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bf for ya < 1203311059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the easier-for-BF-to-process solution < 1203311079 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem like it's much different to me < 1203311101 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still going to need the inner if to decide what to do < 1203311179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not eof { data1=read_byte; data2=read_byte; if data1=0x01 { set_eof }; if !eof { do_something_with_data2 } } < 1203311227 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that my if<>0 is easy to code up, so that's nothing < 1203311306 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? they are essentially identical.. and now more capable langs don't have to output so much < 1203311312 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or read so much < 1203311385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still hold that the current way is simpler < 1203311417 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is slightly simpler at the expense of approx twice as much I/O < 1203311424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for BF only < 1203311430 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other langs it is no simpler < 1203311508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what was your way again? < 1203311551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01-0xFF are as normal, 0x00 0x00 = 0x00, 0x00 0xelse=EOF? < 1203311559 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 = ESC, ESC 00 = 00, ESC 01 = END_OF_DATA < 1203311575 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01=ELSE.. either way < 1203311622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was a flaw, but I was thinking of something else < 1203311656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing out to that format requires a bit of processing < 1203311677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an if statement is a lot of processing? < 1203311689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rememeber trying to do something similar, where 0x01 escapes, and unescaped 0x00 is EOF < 1203311699 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if data_to_output = 0x00 { output 0x00; output 0x00 } < 1203311852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying you need to replace the other.. but it would be nice to see this as an alternative format < 1203311877 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with the way you are doing the processing it might be a pain to add it < 1203311883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's currently no provisions for clients to choose which format they want to do < 1203311903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's basically the only way I can think of adding it < 1203311920 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh it's all up to the function receiving it? < 1203311937 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, then it'd have to be one or the other < 1203312004 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serialization is such a pain :) < 1203312018 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203312143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203312310 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedtime.. bbl < 1203312316 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203312953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think I mostly completed the docs for the Net domain < 1203312970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll then eventually work on the File I/O domain and base the FTP parts of the Net domain on that < 1203313162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go now < 1203314046 0 :rutlov!n=voltur@217-68-167-217.dynamic.primacom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203314202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203314406 0 :rutlov!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203315969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x50 0x0A < 1203316006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ beginnings of an HTTP server < 1203316054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x02 0x00 0x0A < 1203316064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x02 0x11 0x04 0x0A < 1203316078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x00 0x0A < 1203316263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x50 0x0A 0x00 0x08 0x02 0x00 0x0A 0x00 0x02 0x11 0x04 0x0A 0x00 0x01 0x00 0x0A < 1203316967 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, check it out- I wrote a lisp-derivative bingo card generator in postscript: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203316480.html < 1203317001 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions for additional words? < 1203318281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203321599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203321600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203322283 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1203329773 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203330250 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203330907 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203332097 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203332112 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203332116 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203332118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203332121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION provides help
< 1203332133 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy do < 1203332144 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral support? < 1203332150 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203332152 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello es0n00b. < 1203332202 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s``sii`ki``s``s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`si``s`k`s`k`d````````````.H.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!kk`k``s``s`ksk`k.* < 1203332212 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it'll work < 1203332236 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither. I don't do well on strict evaluation. < 1203332252 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's crashed?? < 1203332283 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1203332346 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nup, didnt work. oh well. < 1203332442 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it supposed to do? < 1203332500 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was supposed to do an endless loop print of "Hello World!" < 1203332519 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's based on unlambdaV3 < 1203332532 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(copied from http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/#lambda_elim) < 1203332556 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, EgoBot doesn't like infinite loop much < 1203332556 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203332579 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```sii``sii < 1203332580 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. just wanted to test egobot's limits < 1203332588 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```sii``sii < 1203332632 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1203332702 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all egobots languages obsficated? < 1203332722 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, esoterics. < 1203332744 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. It has malbolge. < 1203332745 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know esoteric doesnt always mean obsficated (or does it?) < 1203332756 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would output something with a random string. < 1203332761 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge is a nightmare from what i've read < 1203332775 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the popular languages are mostly turing tarpits. < 1203332799 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're usually harder to read than write. < 1203332807 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge é(,hjy_én,hju_ç)éj-ué"(èk87"èk876l4k"-k4'7è_4kl7kn7-"-jk4è-l4 < 1203332808 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1203332813 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you robot! < 1203332832 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering which is a ?good? one to try and write an interpreter in < 1203332855 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could test a prototype language in another language < 1203332874 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good is hard to define in this sense) < 1203332965 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda has still got me thinking. i just still cant quite get my brain around it < 1203332967 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vw/.R,+Op(L,+k#Gh&}Cdz@aw=;zyKw%ut4Uqp0/mlejihtfrHcbaC2^W\>Z,XW)UTSL53\HGFjW < 1203332970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world. < 1203332973 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203332977 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaay! < 1203333011 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlamba accepts functions, performs functions on them, and returns functions < 1203333026 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it also does side effects. < 1203333079 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, if unlambda is TC, there exists unlambda functions that will return the derivatives, antiderivatives, and inverses of functions < 1203333121 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just cant work out how to represent numbers other than natural numbers < 1203333121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1203333121 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg 1/2, root(2) or pi < 1203333138 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can try to look at the foundation of mathematics. < 1203333167 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand thats what unlambda is about- mathematical foundation < 1203333167 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, rational numbers can be represented as ordered pairs. < 1203333176 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unlambda has ordered pairs < 1203333217 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just waiting for the flash of inspiration when i understand exactly what S, K and ` do < 1203333228 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what they do is simple < 1203333245 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sabc transforms to ``ac`bc < 1203333250 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``kab to a < 1203333254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, combinatory logic ensnaring yet another wayward soul < 1203333256 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` just means "apply". < 1203333275 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has this simple yet alien beauty < 1203333277 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still dont get it) < 1203333297 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing much more to get, really. < 1203333315 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing to understand after that is how to change that into something useful. < 1203333359 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An easy one is the conditional. < 1203333368 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on < 1203333374 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"True" and "False" can be written as k and `ki < 1203333409 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conditional can be written as ``[condition][A][B] < 1203333425 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sabc == ``ac`bc. is this the simplest use of S? < 1203333442 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's true, it transforms to k, and ``k[A][B] converts to A < 1203333473 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False, to `ki, and ```ki[A][B] converts to `iB, to B < 1203333483 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only use of s < 1203333519 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ``[condition][A][B] is "if condition, then A, else B" < 1203333534 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so ```sabc==``ac`bc and ``kab==k define S and K? < 1203333546 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*``kab = a < 1203333551 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1203333566 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry ``kab==a) < 1203333595 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in lambdas, S = ^abc.(ac)(bc), K = ^ab.a < 1203333606 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow - i understand what you mean by trying to make something useful out of it < 1203333674 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203333719 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to absorb unlamdba's if-then-else) < 1203333778 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok -why is k=TRUE, `ki=FALSE? < 1203333802 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventions, I assume < 1203333834 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably work some true-false with something else, but conditionals are easy to do this way. < 1203333845 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical operator are easy too. < 1203333847 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. and what does the I in `kI do? < 1203333863 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is the identity combinator. < 1203333869 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iA = A < 1203333903 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not necessary, since there's also ```skkA = ``kA`kA = A < 1203333907 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's shorter. < 1203333921 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so used to instructions doing things. is it still right to call them instructions, and say that they do thinks? unlambda is beginning to unravel my understanding of the definition of things) < 1203333951 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The madness is setting in :o < 1203333963 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a useful fellow : ``s``si`k`k`ki`kk < 1203333976 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. think i got that part. `iA says perform identity function on A, returning identity(A)=A < 1203333991 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "is zero" function. < 1203334001 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns true for 0, false for something bigger. < 1203334041 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example of "``s``si`k`k`ki`kk" plz? < 1203334072 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in Church numerals, 0 is ^fx.x -> ki < 1203334087 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ```s``si`k`k`ki`kkki transforms to k < 1203334116 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 = ^fx.fx = (through eta reduction) ^x.x = i < 1203334127 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ```s``si`k`k`ki`kki transforms to ki < 1203334178 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 would be something like ``s``s`ksk``s``s`ksk`ki according to my abstraction elimination program, so I'll probably stop there < 1203334229 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok- being able to evaluate x=0 is useful, but evaluating x>0 is more useful < 1203334244 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x>0 is longer < 1203334250 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And x=y even longer. < 1203334303 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a>b is ``b`b``c`t0k``c``bb``b`b``c`t`k0k``c``bb`c`t``c``bc``b`bc``c``bc``b`bb``cb``b`bttkiii in lazy bird, and it's already quite compressed. < 1203334305 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=y, x=0, x<0, etc etc can all be derived from x>0 (the basis of OISC type languages) < 1203334366 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I use the a0 and if-then-else versions of unlamba < 1203334626 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though probably not pleasant. < 1203334661 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably tinker some negative number with some ordered pair < 1203334674 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem would then be trying to find ways of eliminating redundant code < 1203334678 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the operation applied on it will depend on the truth value. < 1203334698 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ie code optimisation) < 1203334743 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea has been floating around in my head for a few days now, the problem of compiling one Turing tarpit into another tarpit < 1203334758 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a simple way is to write first in lambdas, since with lambda calculus, any function f used more than once can be rewritten as (^f.program)function < 1203334775 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But lambda calculus doesn't transform to combinators very efficiently < 1203334998 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine translation if fascinating. like transforming english->japanese->english. good for shits and giggles < 1203335068 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(too many ideas - too little time and skill to implement) < 1203335129 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant even imagine trig function i unlamba, but i guess they've been explored already?? < 1203335204 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking of it - even divide seem difficult. < 1203335222 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's just some iteration of series. < 1203335279 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! first, define factorial, then use some recursive version of the Taylor series! < 1203335296 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorials are well known. < 1203335309 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually the standard example for the fixed point combinator. < 1203335414 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. know much about the gamma function (related to factorial, but also valid for non-natural numbers) < 1203335471 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we don't use it that much in physics. < 1203335489 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_function < 1203335505 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it is. < 1203335507 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamma(n)=(n-1)! < 1203335542 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how wouyld you define the integral version of gamma in unlamba? < 1203335582 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my guess would be that first, you have to define reals. < 1203335591 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where the laugh ends! < 1203335627 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could probably scratch up something out of rationals and taylor series. < 1203335668 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worked out a way to define integration by recursion of a function without determining its antiderivative, but it was only valid for bounded integrals < 1203335676 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie wouldnt apply for gamma < 1203335748 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd advise to first work on simpler programs. < 1203335769 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda isn't the easiest language in the world. < 1203335793 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also often hard to manipulate, since it's hard to keep tracks of variables < 1203335794 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just want to dive in and do things - but understand it aint that easy) < 1203335877 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: yep. gamma doesnt have an taylor polynomial definition, but there is another non-integral definition that would be an easier approach < 1203335886 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personnaly usually just write my functions in lambda calculus. < 1203335894 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least not an EASY taylor definition) < 1203335908 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then converts it to combinators. < 1203335929 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep a small list of functions, plus numbers from 0 to 100 < 1203335967 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, I try to optimise the functions. < 1203336010 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the sort of line of thinking i was having < 1203336026 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually by letting them run through Lazy Bird (it can prints the expression at each step, so I can pick the shortest), trying to see by hand what it does, or passing it through the JUGGERNAUT < 1203336041 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JUGGERNAUT is a fucking stupid program, but it works. < 1203336063 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on a certain class of expressions at least < 1203336064 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a little about Lazy-Bird. whats that about? < 1203336092 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my version of unlambda, with lazy evaluation. < 1203336099 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easier to use. < 1203336104 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, more combinators. < 1203336123 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a short-cut version of unlamba? < 1203336154 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1203336159 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(easier to read, not difficult to convert Lbird -> unlambda?) < 1203336163 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203336179 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, it's probably not that easy to convert to unlambda < 1203336186 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-144.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203336231 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Juggernaut will generate all possible combinators (minus some expressions like `iA, since it's the same as A), try them on a bunch of dummy combinators, and compare the result to the original combinator. < 1203336268 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, for some dummy combinator A, ```skkA converts to A, and so does `iA, so it will give that answer. < 1203336315 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But stuff like ``uuA converts to `A``uuA, so it won't be able to find equivalents without u's in them. < 1203336348 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very fucking slow, but it's useful on small bits of code. < 1203336366 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski < 1203336396 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `ki < 1203336396 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda expressions without output won't give you much results. < 1203336405 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1203336418 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying some basics < 1203336448 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``k```.b.u.t.t````.s.t.u.f.f < 1203336454 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butstuf < 1203336464 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, I forgot < 1203336478 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess there are more consise ways of representing large numbers, other than the iterative version like s(s(s(z))) < 1203336479 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I? < 1203336502 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large numbers can usually be represented by operations on smaller one. < 1203336522 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most basic is through the successor operator, but there's shorter ways < 1203336543 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Lazy%20Bird/Church%206.txt < 1203336636 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sudden reduction in size of the writing usually corresponds to a power of some numbers < 1203336653 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the power of a number is the shortest operation. < 1203336693 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 is very short because it's (2^2)^(2^2) < 1203336696 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(knew powers would have to feature somewhere in the definitions) < 1203336757 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was kind of thinking along the lines of binary is more compact than unary, but other base numbers being more efficient for other nautral numbers < 1203336775 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your page defines that brilliantly. THX!! < 1203336779 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodmorning < 1203336782 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203336807 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually mostly used the Lazy K reference doc on numbers. < 1203336810 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moringing < 1203336815 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except translated from lambdas to lazy K < 1203336820 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bird < 1203336854 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. how do i get !unlambda to evaluate and output 256=`m`m``sbi. it's going to return it in unary form, right?? < 1203336880 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, church-to-ASCII is bothersome to write. < 1203336884 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seems like it's going to be too easy to flood the page) < 1203336929 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. my question wasn't well defined. lets say i wanted to print 256 asterisks?? < 1203336931 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ````b``sb`m``sbi``sbi`d.xi < 1203336932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./unlambda/unlambda: file ./tmp/egobot.0kJFuG: parse error < 1203336951 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never understand unlambda. < 1203336959 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, I'm dumb < 1203336960 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why < 1203336964 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong combinators. < 1203336976 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, to the Birdiest! < 1203336995 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Birdiest being Lazy bird -> SKI translator) < 1203337018 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translator! coo-oo-ool! < 1203337043 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(said with my lasiest owl impersonation) < 1203337107 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just replaces b-c-w-... with their sk equivalents. < 1203337121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``````s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``skk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk`d.xi < 1203337134 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1203337140 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``````s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``skk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk.xi < 1203337150 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.xi < 1203337165 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's mad at me I think. < 1203337196 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203337214 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxx < 1203337216 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxx < 1203337218 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1203337219 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, finally < 1203337231 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, there's the unary printing. < 1203337275 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlamda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk < 1203337278 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203337280 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk < 1203337300 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok - either fibbonacci or crash) < 1203337313 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i vote for crash) < 1203337318 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203337327 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used some pairing in it? < 1203337347 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just copying straight from http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ < 1203337367 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the codes might be for unlambdaV3.0 < 1203337373 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci doesn't stop, too. < 1203337380 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he might not appreciate < 1203337395 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, none of the codes from that page have worked. at least, not the ones with looping < 1203337406 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your right. egobot might not like infinite loops < 1203337419 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway to kill a bad looping process?? < 1203337428 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203337430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203337432 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203337436 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill < 1203337466 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could either use iterations instead of loop, or you could use v with some conditional. < 1203337486 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. time to go to bed. and count sheep. in LAMB-da, of course ;) < 1203337498 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1203337512 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao for now. have a good day < 1203337530 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"JWIRC applet" < 1203339156 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such process! < 1203339202 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowpoke < 1203339360 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1203342296 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203343080 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203347271 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203347353 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203348381 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they work now... http://inshame.blogspot.com/2008/02/efficient-brainfuck-tables.html < 1203349655 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203349695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, vaguely crazy world < 1203349720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203349725 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic would be clearer with | as the seperator < 1203349726 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stands out more < 1203349761 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang | forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | EgoBot: !help | wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric | Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1203349764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an example < 1203349945 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203350181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203350186 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does !unlambda not support v3? < 1203350324 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since the example used involved infinite loops, I'm not sure that was the problem < 1203350375 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203350376 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking < 1203351483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's this about tcl virtual what what < 1203353453 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203354246 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203354991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Tcl has a virtual filesystem layer, allowing one (with the right module) to just attach a file descriptor to http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b. < 1203355000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to a file in a Tclkit. . . < 1203355056 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is considering writing a cleaner psox
< 1203355063 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Socks Pee, or something. :-P < 1203355122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you at all familiar with Tclkits, Starkits, and Starpacks?) < 1203355153 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203355488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No < 1203355858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Tclkit is a full, complete Tcl setup in one file. < 1203355879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Starkit is an archiving format for Tcl files. A Tclkit can run one directly. < 1203355886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Starpack is a Tclkit with a Starkit in it. < 1203356271 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203356797 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203356811 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(I should be able to manipulate code as a list)." -- Someone, on Scheme. < 1203356872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, go for it. < 1203356877 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it :S < 1203356897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[info proc proc_name] returns the code body of a function. < 1203356899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a list. < 1203356900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1203356994 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note scheme. < 1203357002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Well, that's what Lisps are known for.. < 1203357007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can manipulate code as a list. < 1203357019 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found it funny < 1203357455 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203357472 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203357518 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203357649 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203358576 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203359198 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203359527 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203360308 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Tcl world. < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203360678 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360678 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost forgot. This is a test. < 1203360680 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203360731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203360732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird` < 1203360733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take that to #endeavour < 1203360734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203360944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been trying to write code on some buggy hardware
< 1203360961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the code was originally in C, I ended up having to edit the assembly by hand to get round the machine code instructions that didn't work < 1203360968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then it only ran under a debugger... < 1203360978 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1203360993 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks of : http://www.mini-moto.fr/photo%20jpeg%20bon%20format/buggy%201.jpg
< 1203360997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it was just a faulty chip < 1203361002 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be an awesome code < 1203361009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've ordered a couple of replacements to see if they work < 1203361070 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Endeavour, btw, is my EgoBot-alike) < 1203361084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it run any esolangs yet? < 1203361245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1203361245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203361249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just started it < 1203361261 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in tcl due to pikhq's ... uh, total failure to evangelize it < 1203361266 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least that means it'll be utf-8! < 1203361285 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it parse sum unikitten! < 1203361332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1203361551 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1203361848 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203361908 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203362096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1203362960 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203363172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a new idea for an uncomputable language
< 1203363181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :share < 1203363185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like Prolog, but uses multithreading rather than backtracking < 1203363189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an infinite number of threads < 1203363199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts with a thread for every possible value of every possible variable < 1203363208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the threads die whenever they reach a contradiction < 1203363217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do that, lazily < 1203363217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203363231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial to write the halting problem in it < 1203363234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinite loops are impossible < 1203363244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's subturing then < 1203363245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203363248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1203363257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it oraclises to tell that the infinite loop would happen < 1203363272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203363291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ehird`, maybe FDs aren't the way to go with a GUI domain, come up with something else? < 1203363297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it solves *the halting problem*, it's an oracle, if it computes its own halting problem it's an impossible language. < 1203363313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it computes its own halting problem < 1203363315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm writing soxp, so maybe not best to ask me < 1203363316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203363326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soxp? < 1203363326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the famous impossibility proof for halting fails on it < 1203363331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't drive it into an infinite loop < 1203363331 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like psox, but soxp. < 1203363340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you serious? < 1203363342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link please? < 1203363349 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure you can kind of compute that, lazily and non-deterministically < 1203363357 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my harddrive < 1203363390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, why are you wasting effort on your own version of something that already exists? < 1203363403 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because soxp is sane -- so it doesn't exist < 1203363405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russel:-suchthat(X,not(member(X,X))),member(X,X). < 1203363416 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wasting time; < 1203363419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought a while about that one before realising it failed < 1203363421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all esolangs are wasting time pretty much anyway. < 1203363424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is PSOX not sane? < 1203363432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Various ways, none of which you acknowledge < 1203363433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing member(X,X) with not(member(X,X)) also causes it to fail < 1203363442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adding neither, the command succeeds < 1203363443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, such as? < 1203363450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see logs, Sgeo < 1203363651 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203363659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasoning: the notion of a set that contains all sets that do not contain themselves is not a contradiction by itself < 1203363671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a contradiction to assert either that it contains itself or that it doesn't < 1203363674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russel lists = [not (elem x x) | x <- lists] < 1203363680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, so no GUI domain? < 1203363682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1203363689 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: soxp will have one. < 1203363711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX already exists, you know < 1203363718 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX sucks. < 1203363728 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203363749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russel = filter (\x -> not (elem x x)) < 1203363754 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't type, of course. < 1203363779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my new idea of a language infinite datatypes are entirely possible and even possibly common < 1203363803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite datatype in AwesomeHaskell: < 1203363806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kinda like in haskell? < 1203363815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: infinite datatypes are no tpossible in haskell. < 1203363817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think ehird` should attempt to redo PSOX in what he believes to be a cleaner way? < 1203363818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why my thing doesn't type. < 1203363822 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the y combinator doesn't type < 1203363828 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AwesomeHaskell" LOL < 1203363830 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sgeo can't come up with opinions for himself without consulting other people. < 1203363832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Haskell syntax inspired much of the syntax of my new language < 1203363841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks more like Prolog because the Prolog syntax is used more often < 1203363845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: indeed, misread < 1203363849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type InfiniteListType = [InfiniteListType] < 1203363854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite datatypes ought to be possible anywhere < 1203363854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, My opinion is that you shouldn't do it < 1203363863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least anywhere that doesn't care about efficiency < 1203363867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, because god forbid you get competition < 1203363881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want my t -> t -> t -> t -> ... datatype < 1203363882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it's needless work on your part < 1203363888 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, sgeo, for making me see the light. From now on, since you say I shouldn't do it, I won't. < 1203363890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trivial: < 1203363893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can write sii in Haskell < 1203363904 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Inf a = a -> Inf a < 1203363937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy enough to define in Haskell, only the compilers don't allow it < 1203363947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without the constructor < 1203363952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the constructor sort of defeats the point < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = (Fooer a -> a) < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type YType a = (Fooer a) -> a < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: YType a < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y f = (\x -> x x) (\x -> f (x x)) < 1203363980 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ I think < 1203363983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is awesomehaskell! < 1203363989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite types aren't even needed for sii, just the typechecker isn't good enough < 1203364005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, define: < 1203364008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm: < 1203364012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = Fooer a -> a < 1203364017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even the first argument of y? < 1203364020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it should be < 1203364021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :churchnumeral2 x y = x (x y) < 1203364022 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = a -> a < 1203364038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how likely/unlikely it is for ehird` to ever complete his soxp
< 1203364041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then (sii churchnumeral2) has a perfectly well-defined type < 1203364050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Certainly quickly < 1203364053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I will start a spec now. < 1203364076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll work on implementing the Net domain now < 1203364092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does the Net domain really need FTP stuff other than getting from an FTP URL? < 1203364109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That ought to suffice. < 1203364115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have thought so < 1203364128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, getting from a URL? ok < 1203364130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more complex FTP client would want to use the TCP stuff, anyways. < 1203364156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use a custom FTP domain < 1203364203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, even if ehird creats the world's most awesome API for esolangs, at least Sgeo can claim credit in making the first one that's been fully implemented. < 1203364211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And driving ehird's into existence. ;) < 1203364220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;F < 1203364222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1203364224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203364233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;Y < 1203364314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;W < 1203364358 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very first draft: < 1203364359 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/908860 < 1203364527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers the Sgeo I/O design to the ehird` I/O design
< 1203364528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203364538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pity that you can't portably have waiting-for-input detection < 1203364550 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, my io will have a sugar on top of it < 1203364551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you can... I heard somewhere that Windows is POSIX-compatible < 1203364562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean that select may be available there after all < 1203364568 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my model is cleaner conceptually though < 1203364571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sugar will make it even nicer < 1203364577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably with a different name and syntax, knowing Microsoft < 1203364612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all I know is that the Python docs for select.select() say that Windows can't do it with files < 1203364629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to do it with files, though < 1203364630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with pipes < 1203364641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pipes I think I meant < 1203364663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select isn't very useful with other types of file-like object < 1203364672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Note: File objects on Windows are not acceptable, but sockets are. On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the WinSock library, and does not handle file descriptors that don't originate from WinSock. < 1203364672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1203364680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/lib/module-select.html < 1203364686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only ever used it with pipes and keyboard/screen stdin/stdout < 1203364701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wonder whether pipes are implemented with sockets on Windows < 1203364732 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203364736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203364746 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203364772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Would I be correct in assuming you'll simplify the type system? < 1203364801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Most definately. < 1203364811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, how would it be simplified? < 1203364824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should play with that fancy array code
< 1203364832 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not being ridiculous < 1203365304 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy lists in 23 lines of simple, readable ruby. cool. < 1203365313 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1203365337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: oh! < 1203365351 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203365370 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203365448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: hmm, i was trying to make 'fold' (inject) lazy < 1203365448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203365488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones = LazyList.new(1) {ones} < 1203365510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold can be lazy in one direction < 1203365519 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones.map {|x| puts x} # this actually prints one 1, until you give it tail. heh. < 1203365527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly if you try that it will go into an infinite loop if the list is, in fact, infinite < 1203365597 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203365633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, should I have sockets flush themselves whenever they're written to? < 1203365644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def inject(base, &blk) < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blk[head, tail.inject(base, &blk)] < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1203365648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it's worth making that use a thunk? < 1203365671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know you weren't asking me, but I know from experience that some obscure bugs in code I wrote were traceable to not doing that < 1203365689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so don't force the client to do it themselves? < 1203365689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203365692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine that with the slow speed of most esolangs, and there's no reason not to < 1203365701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty ais523 < 1203365972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.ca/908906 weird bug with thunks < 1203365972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def method_missing(*args, &blk) < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thunk.new {@block.call.__send__(*args, &blk)} < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1203365989 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it return a Thunk < 1203365990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not [a,b] < 1203365993 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1203365995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to #python sockets aren't buffered, so don't flush < 1203365998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it type-checks that, < 1203366003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using sendall() though < 1203366007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should go through method_missing, and getting it properly < 1203366009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT.. < 1203366013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the internal ruby c api to do it < 1203366014 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203366028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so in otherwords even the Python devs thought autoflush was a good idea < 1203366239 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i wish ruby had was to_b < 1203366244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definable boolean coercion < 1203366245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1203366281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ it would be your_class_name_here::operator(bool) < 1203366292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you overload the cast operator < 1203366325 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203366333 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, can you do this in C++: < 1203366339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class TrueClass; def to_b; false; end end < 1203366346 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class FalseClass; def to_b; true end end < 1203366357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1203366367 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true.is_a? TrueClass < 1203366368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby. < 1203366383 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, admittedly since TrueClass/FalseClass instances (aka true & false) would be handled primitively, that would do nothing, but :)) < 1203366393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class TrueClass{public: bool operator(bool){return false;}}; < 1203366428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but true isn't a trueclass in c++... < 1203366442 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ruby changes the meaning of true and false < 1203366442 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, as my note says, tahat wouldn't actually work < 1203366452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ you have to know which type each object is at all times < 1203366455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> true.class < 1203366455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> TrueClass < 1203366460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could create a constructor that constructed it from true < 1203366473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus allowing true to be casted into a TrueClass < 1203366483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... but true IS a trueclass, in ruby < 1203366484 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no casting < 1203366485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even have it throw an exception if you wrote (TrueClass)false... < 1203366488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true is a regular object < 1203366490 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instance of TrueClass < 1203366498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: what if you have two TrueClasses < 1203366504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different member functions < 1203366506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't.. < 1203366507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same name? < 1203366509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one TrueClass < 1203366512 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code snippit < 1203366514 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opens up TrueClass < 1203366517 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and monkeypatches it < 1203366526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1203366529 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how e.g. you can extend Array and stuff in ruby < 1203366536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be used for evil, but it can also be used for very cool things < 1203366556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it who went and created C++ that looked like Lisp by overloading most of the operators? < 1203366560 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1203366566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was someone in #esoteric, but I can't remember who < 1203366566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fig? < 1203366574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, basically, mine reverses the truth values, but of course if ruby actually checked to_b for true/falseclass, it would be an infinite regress, so it wouldn't < 1203366579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figs < 1203366597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's done a lot of weird shit in c++ < 1203366599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that rings a bell < 1203366776 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo, though, < 1203366780 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing hideously broken about ruby < 1203366781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is block scope < 1203366789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x00 implemented! < 1203366796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2; something_taking_a_block {|x| ...}; x => the value in the block < 1203366799 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is being fixed for 1.9 < 1203366804 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as huge speed improvements with the new vm < 1203367426 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1203367608 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww damn.... < 1203367613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make 'inject' lazy.. < 1203367618 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only way is basically this: < 1203367624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if FBF will support PSOX
< 1203367636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def inject(base, &blk) < 1203367636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blk[head, (magic thunkify: tail.inject(base, &blk))]; end < 1203367643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the magic thunkify is basically impossible < 1203367652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't make it be a truly transparent proxy < 1203367709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how can I checkout the PSOX repo? < 1203367710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1203367716 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welllllll < 1203367721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox < 1203367729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the branches and tags and stuff < 1203367738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1203367739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably unneeded < 1203367740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1203367807 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, esolangs embedded in C++ through operator overloading sounds interesting < 1203367849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is thinking about writing an INTERCAL library to make use of PSOX
< 1203367866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203367898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are already libraries for other things < 1203367905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including infamously floating-point arithmetic < 1203367910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a d < 1203367915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a d\n// < 1203367938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no floating-point in PSOX :/ < 1203367952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if floating-point will be in ehird`'s SOXP
< 1203367965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1203367969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, support PSOX before even considering SOXP please < 1203367983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nothing can support SOXP yet so there =P < 1203368060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, once I implement domain 0x08, are you going to write some stuff to test it? < 1203368076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1203368094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Conformance with widely-accepted standards was not considered to be a priority for an INTERCAL library. (The fact that the general format conforms to IEEE at all is due to sheer pragmatism.)" < 1203368127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a note stating that pi is represented as #571$#35133 < 1203368145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is amused at the way that their client assumes that INTERCAL constants are IRC channels
< 1203368175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to the official INTERCAL PI channel
< 1203368235 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' But yeah, support PSOX before even considering SOXP please' you realise how stupid this sounds < 1203368249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello! Everyone ignore Elliott's project, it upsets me. Use PSOX, it's so much better!!!' < 1203368262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, PSOX currently exists >.> < 1203368280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't for an awful long time, I add. < 1203368285 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, double-u tee ef is SOXP? < 1203368301 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION already regrets asking that.
< 1203368315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOXP is ehird`'s hypothetical redoing of PSOX, in a supposedly cleaner way < 1203368323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hmm - you're right, it needs an acronym expansion. SOXP Only eXceeds PSOX < 1203368351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, PSOX doesn't get an ancronym expansion, its name is historical < 1203368390 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, SOXP is better than PSOX in that way too. < 1203368791 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203368866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1203368889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please leave logs to learn about ehird`'s latest copycat insanity < 1203368903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203368907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan! < 1203368911 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to write OXPS < 1203368913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not leave, read < 1203368915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night was *awesome* < 1203368916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ Sgeo < 1203368922 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be SOXP -done right- < 1203368930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol faxathisia < 1203368934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should write something called SPOX < 1203368943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has nothing to do with PSOX, OXPS, SOXP, etc., apart from the name < 1203368943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I AM SO EMOTIONALLY HURT ABOUT SOMEONE DECIDING TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO MY PROJECT THAT I WILL MAKE STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT IT TO EVERYONE TO REAFFIRM PSOX'S AWESOMENESS' < 1203368943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna make OXLOPS < 1203368961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's is/was PESOIX, by the way? < 1203368971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, calamari < 1203368977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1203368986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari was involved somehow < 1203369020 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want some calamari.. < 1203369062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the time is overdue for PSUX < 1203369114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone other than ehird` honestly see a point for SOXP? < 1203369151 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Does anyone other than Sgeo honestly see a point for PSOX? I mean, we have PESOIX and EsoAPI' <-- past people < 1203369163 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the better you make PSOX the worse SOXP is gonna look.. < 1203369169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: exactly < 1203369178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd sort of remembered EsoAPI, but only vaguely, so couldn't remember the name < 1203369186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that'll teach you try and make others interested in your projects! :D < 1203369192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it just looks like he's insecure about someone thinking PSOX is something other than perfect. So he's stifiling any innovation, because it's not his. < 1203369222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes competition is good, say the free-wheelers, er market people < 1203369238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just accept it, ehird`'s only way to get interested is to take your idea and make it good < 1203369248 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :) < 1203369257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good, perrrfect! < 1203369274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still waiting for ehirdphica :< < 1203369277 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm.. < 1203369299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdphica? < 1203369301 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to get ehird` interested in my broken thingymajig
< 1203369305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: what thingy < 1203369307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: graphica! < 1203369312 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203369314 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203369330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what's ehirdphica? < 1203369336 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Hard to say what's broken.. It's either the self interpreter from the paper, my compiler or my interpreter < 1203369366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphica never rose that much interest, except for faxathisia, the official non-tc lang enthusiasist < 1203369366 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: but anyway, something doesn't work.. so I can't run the Janus self interpreter < 1203369400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: if that's an esolang, could you put a stub with a link on the wiki so I can take a look? < 1203369424 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure but I think it's an esolang < 1203369439 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of minimal and every program is reversible < 1203369444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if perhaps a layer could be made between a SOXP client and a PSOX server to make them work together.. or the other way around..
< 1203369452 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is like While though < 1203369460 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quiteconventional) < 1203369478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ehirdphica was what ehird would turn graphica into, naturally. < 1203369481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> ones.dump_to($stdout) < 1203369481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ... < 1203369506 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1203369665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203369929 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyone: ones = lazy(1) { ones } # comments on this syntax? < 1203369948 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly.. < 1203369949 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203369951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't really know Ruby
< 1203369970 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: why? < 1203369972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do: < 1203369981 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the 1 isn't the lazy bit < 1203369982 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = lazy(1,2,3) { foo } < 1203369987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,...] < 1203370000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the way lists are implemented in Unlambda
< 1203370002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ah. i can make both head and tail lazy if you want, but then it's LazyMegaThing, not LazyList < 1203370009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my most usual Underload implementation works a similar way < 1203370020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is meant to fit into ruby well... < 1203370022 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, < 1203370025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones.map {|x| x+2} < 1203370026 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1203370030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are many options for implementing lists in Unlambda < 1203370034 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1203370044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: you can even print it infinitely like in haskell < 1203370050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not via 'inspect' since that returns a string < 1203370054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: infinitely many, perhaps? < 1203370060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one I know is where the list returns its head when applied to one function and its tail when applied to another < 1203370061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: at least < 1203370072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = lazy(1,2,3) { foo }; foo.map {|x| x+2}.dump_to(STDOUT) < 1203370074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get: < 1203370079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was quite an underestimate < 1203370080 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy(1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,... < 1203370232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Net::urlget function, should I attempt to return the HTTP status code, or don't bother? < 1203370236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? < 1203370250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it might not even be an HTTP url.. < 1203370493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, changes committed. Want to test sockets? < 1203370530 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pikhq your testing dummy or something < 1203370604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says: not ATM.
< 1203370614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta finish off homework. ;) < 1203370678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203370905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye everyone" < 1203370982 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203371064 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203371111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now fully possible to write a multi-threaded HTTP Server in Brainfork < 1203371126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for the lack of File access, sorry < 1203371130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A. . . Multithreaded server? < 1203371132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1203371132 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..... < 1203371138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Brain*fork*. < 1203371138 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh........ < 1203371141 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT? < 1203371142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, fork() isn't threads. < 1203371142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203371146 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is fork(). < 1203371155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203371158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mybad < 1203371158 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Brain*fork*. < 1203371167 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: I know < 1203371168 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: I know < 1203371181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Sgeo, that's like saying < 1203371187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Brainfork multithreaded http server: ''" < 1203371194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With my MagicalServerEnabler filter." < 1203371205 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, multi-threaded servers suck. You want async io. < 1203371206 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: How is ti though? < 1203371208 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ehrid? < 1203371214 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1203371247 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`. < 1203371261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, with the way PSOX works, it would probably make more sense not to use forking, really < 1203371710 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203371719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, ehird`, idea for SOXP: Support threads, e.g. have each thread, when issuing a SOXP command, print out a byte indicating the thread first < 1203371737 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203371745 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would comment on how that accomplishes nothing at all < 1203371749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead i'll just laugh a bit < 1203371771 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you threading.. < 1203371776 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203371787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi slereah_ < 1203371796 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that only VM processes are parallel, you don't get extra parallelism in the language < 1203371815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia, you could use brainfork < 1203371829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you'd need to make sure that only one thread issues a command at a time, I guess < 1203371833 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you don't extra parallelism < 1203371834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's very meh < 1203371885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, going to watch Seinfeld/take care of books for an hour < 1203371887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all < 1203371897 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1203372472 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203372708 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203373269 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203373660 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203373791 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun|pants < 1203374228 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203374663 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203374800 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203375108 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203375250 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203375634 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203375757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything.. wow absolutely notjing < 1203375775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we start talking about PSOX and SOXP again/ < 1203375802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203375853 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203376035 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203376043 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203376576 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203377022 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203377078 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203377882 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY is it just saying Hi? < 1203378737 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fucking with our brain. < 1203378784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1203378831 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like that generator is really horrible! < 1203378845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to see the code for the generator? < 1203378859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet: The generated code < 1203378935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909224 < 1203378981 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments plz? < 1203379012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was generated < 1203379024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By this < 1203379024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909227 < 1203379064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the script < 1203379067 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203379085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909228 is the generator < 1203379091 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think we're lacking newcomers? < 1203379098 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're building them yourself? < 1203379133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203379145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wanted to test/demonstrate sockets from PSOX < 1203379169 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar liek sockpuppets! < 1203379189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol