< 1203120011 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not relativity. It's SCIENCE! < 1203120031 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/LUR.jpg < 1203120033 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE! < 1203120117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120120 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120131 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush robot. < 1203120314 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry - got a phone call. brb) < 1203120362 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon ecneics bf +[] < 1203120366 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120368 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120378 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1203120387 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon ECNEICS bf +[] < 1203120390 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120399 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1203120443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pf < 1203120446 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1203120448 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 Sgeo: ps < 1203120456 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon ecneics < 1203120458 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 killed. < 1203120462 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon ECNEICS < 1203120464 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 2 killed. < 1203120494 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+] < 1203120500 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon message cat Hello, world! < 1203120503 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120504 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1203120507 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1203120525 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it'll never work again, of course. < 1203120543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, eh? < 1203120545 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120553 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't print it that time. < 1203120560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to write a BF program that can go online < 1203120576 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(back again) < 1203120581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb es0n00b < 1203120587 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1203120606 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Egobot do. BF interpreter?? < 1203120620 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does many things! < 1203120625 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203120634 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+] < 1203120643 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203120654 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon message cat Hello, world! < 1203120657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120660 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.xi < 1203120660 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1203120682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if EgoBot will ever be able to do PSOX stuff < 1203120683 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.b`.u`.t`.ti < 1203120685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120689 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1203120695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: EgoBot got disconnected in the middle < 1203120711 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``.b`.u`.t`.tdi < 1203120713 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120725 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't go well with eager evaluation. < 1203120731 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.o`.l`.l.`e.`hi < 1203120735 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llo < 1203120749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ````.b.u.t.ti < 1203120751 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt < 1203120752 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1203120755 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.b`.u`.t`.t`di < 1203120757 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120762 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this. < 1203120771 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203120781 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `````.h.e.l.l.oi < 1203120783 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203120786 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaay!! < 1203120800 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1203120800 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've go no idea how that works, but thats kind of cool < 1203120828 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It evaluates the innermost first expression. < 1203120833 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.d`.t`.c`.u`.b`````.o.f.s.a.ei < 1203120835 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofsaebuctd < 1203120836 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does unlamba have anything to do with mu-recursion < 1203120856 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's an isomorphism between the two. < 1203120856 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's mu-recursion? < 1203120860 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the discussion last night this slereah_ has really got me thinking < 1203120860 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond that, not much < 1203120869 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose mu-recurvise functions. < 1203120886 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.d`.e`.t`.a`.c`````.o.b.f.u.si < 1203120889 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obfuscated < 1203120894 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, can you do math using unlambda < 1203120899 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though now it's not as obfuscated. < 1203120909 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1203120910 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda's Turing-complete, all right. < 1203120926 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203120990 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleraeh_> that language we talked about last night, what was it called (where (^f.f)a=a)? < 1203121010 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda calculus? < 1203121013 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda calculus < 1203121020 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KHAAAAAAAAAAN!" < 1203121027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: there is an easy encoding of lambda calculus into unlambda (apart from minor details of execution order) < 1203121031 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, Star Trek 2 needed that lines. < 1203121034 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh - thats right. im getting lamda, mu church numerals, all these ideas confused right now < 1203121038 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's otherwise not that awesome < 1203121041 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is KHAAAAAAAAAAN! the new jinx? < 1203121041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works on the first ever Internet enabled Brainfuck program < 1203121075 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus can only work on numbers right. or can it work on strings < 1203121079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203121089 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie: does lambda calculus have a "Hello, world!"? < 1203121095 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define strings as number. < 1203121100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: lambda calculus per se has nothing to do with either numbers or strings < 1203121113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just can encode anything in it < 1203121114 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203121119 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lambda calculus itself can't print anything. < 1203121122 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203121127 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can implement side effects and such < 1203121142 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Side effects, ugh. :-) < 1203121145 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i thought. pass a string as a long hexdec number, process, then return a hexdec number, convert back to a string < 1203121158 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's roughly what Lazy K does. < 1203121163 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1203121164 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for instance. < 1203121166 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203121177 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cool with side effects though. < 1203121189 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually a computable bijection between lambda calculus expressions and SKI calculus expressions mapping each expression to an equivalent one? < 1203121193 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K can only do input -> output IIRC < 1203121210 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Well, use abstraction reduction. < 1203121212 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to think how you could input a string, and output the string in reverse (ie "hello"->"olleh") < 1203121229 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elimination < 1203121258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: well you have mappings in each direction, which may not be bijective < 1203121260 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is *elimination < 1203121274 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed. < 1203121291 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstraction elimination. < 1203121303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you make them injective i think you can apply scr๖der-bernstein to fix it up < 1203121305 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You eliminate variables. < 1203121306 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Abstraction elimination does what?? < 1203121310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*schr๖der < 1203121320 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It converts lambda expressions in SKI combinators. < 1203121332 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203121347 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cool < 1203121399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might need to be clever to make it computable. hm. < 1203121466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to prove that it already is.) < 1203121640 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: the more you address people by surrounding their nick in less-than/greater-than marks, the more people will think that you're quoting what they had said previously < 1203121673 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You usually only need to type four keys for name quoting! < 1203121703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: you may notice that I address you by appending a colon to your nickname, but what actually happens is i type es and press Tab < 1203121746 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry - using web based client that doesnt have ways to do that < 1203121809 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - wife wants me to start doing house work. still have a lot of questions (as usual), but I'll get back later (probably another 12 hours) < 1203121813 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao for now < 1203121846 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"JWIRC applet" < 1203122507 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203123677 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203126036 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :slereah_ < 1203126037 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1203127631 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Alone?" < 1203129823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, why is my program not working? < 1203129965 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it doing? < 1203129992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what should it be doing? < 1203130007 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what language is it written in? < 1203130019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, Brainfuck < 1203130055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's doing brainfuck? Like a brainfuck interpreter? < 1203130058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm trying to pull from input and send to output except for the null I'll receive < 1203130065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[,[.>]<]> < 1203130103 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme guess- it only prints the first character? < 1203130153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's sending it correctly, but the program doesn't continue < 1203130155 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... hm. no- that looks like it'd be fine < 1203130157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1203130320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm not sending a 0x0A correctly < 1203130365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any guarantee that the next cell is not 0? < 1203130641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1203130831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the next cell? < 1203130922 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203130927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi olsner < 1203130947 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hello there < 1203130967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1203130976 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203131051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"New kernel. Wheee." < 1203131428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, almost there < 1203131689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay the first ever Internet-aware BF program! < 1203131842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+++++++.>+.<+++.>-..<.,,,[-].+.-.++++++++++.>.<--.>.,+[,.]++.>[-]+++++++++++++++++.<++.>-------.>[-]+[[-].+..+++++++++.,,,.]++.-.-.++++++++++. < 1203131864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^that program is Internet-aware under PSOX < 1203131944 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203131956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq < 1203131957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+++++++.>+.<+++.>-..<.,,,[-].+.-.++++++++++.>.<--.>.,+[,.]++.>[-]+++++++++++++++++.<++.>-------.>[-]+[[-].+..+++++++++.,,,.]++.-.-.++++++++++. < 1203132278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1203132294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you want to try an Internet-aware BF application, get the latest PSOX from SVN and run: < 1203132303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python PSOX.py bf online.b < 1203132322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then after the version information is printed, write something like: < 1203132326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.com < 1203132329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press Enter < 1203132346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203132379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/online.b < 1203132409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, going to try it? < 1203132415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ATM. < 1203132420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow, absolutely. < 1203132441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight, I'm just doing a hell of a lot of nothing. < 1203132578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1203132610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, going to try it? < 1203134219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, a chat server can be made with a chat client written in BF < 1203134223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to do it? < 1203134224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203134542 0 :Sukoshi`!n=Blah@user-3cf84np.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203134553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1203134567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hisashiburi, ne. < 1203134597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203134635 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1203134651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question remains: where have you been the past several months? < 1203134683 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a life to deal with. And when I part this channel, I'll have a life to go back to :P < 1203134693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1203134700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life, shmife. < 1203134723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs a life when there's PSOX and PEBBLE 2 to discuss? < 1203134724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1203134731 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203134771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay pikhq indicated e cared about PSOX! < 1203134783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has PSOX on hilight < 1203134795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, of course I care. I just don't have the time to do major development ATM. < 1203134815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP Japanese takes a good chunk out of your schedule when you actually want to do well in the class. < 1203134831 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The test looked really easy last time I checked. < 1203134837 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll take it for the heck of it this year. < 1203134844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Keep in mind that I've barely studied for the past 3 years. < 1203134848 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203134856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had a horrible, horrible teacher for 2 of them. < 1203134858 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've graduated to reading short novels routinely. < 1203134869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a weeks worth of studying would cover those 2 years. < 1203134871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1203134875 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've reached that self-sustaining level where I can read for fun to keep up my skills. < 1203134888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite jealous. < 1203134896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM, I'm just now learning the 3rd-grade kanji. . . < 1203134907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a linguistic person < 1203134919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's easy for you, but, frankly, I'm way behind where I should be. < 1203134929 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is your grammar? < 1203134945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That*, I'm quite a bit better at. < 1203134958 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, give me a definition of "better" :) < 1203134972 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you can deal with just about any conjugation found in manga? < 1203134986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so, yes. < 1203135010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd really like to pick up keigo a bit, though. . . That looks interesting, moderately difficult, yet worthwhile) < 1203135014 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I was going to give you a link to a grammar book, but you're past it then. < 1203135033 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keigo is a lot lot lot lot lot (repeat as necessary) easier than most people make it out to be. < 1203135047 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because your average Japanese writing uses a whole 20 Keigo verbs. < 1203135058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Keigo? < 1203135060 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which are all as regular as their non-Keigo forms. < 1203135067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keigo < 1203135076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Formal Japanese. < 1203135113 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203135123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Easy summary, at least. ;) < 1203135130 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who's quite good at Japanese < 1203135135 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Keigo nouns are not very difficult. Military terms are where I'm starting to stick. < 1203135162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji are what's really screwing me up. < 1203135169 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started picking up Russian now because Japanese doesen't need the same time from me anymore that I gave it. < 1203135184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vocabulary is decent, although it'd be better if I did know a lot more kanji. . . < 1203135184 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm pretty sure I'll stop with the language acquisition after Russian. < 1203135192 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you learning Kanji independently? < 1203135197 0 :bd_!n=foo@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203135202 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi bd) < 1203135205 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1203135207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI bd_ < 1203135208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; for class. < 1203135241 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihongo to kiite(ry < 1203135261 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203135291 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invited me in saying something about a discussion about japanese or something >.> < 1203135295 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant, independently from vocabulary. < 1203135309 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใ‚’ๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใพใ™ใ‹ใ€‚ < 1203135337 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใ„ใ„ใˆใ€ใพใฃใŸใๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ใ‚ˆใ€‚ < 1203135367 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๆœฌๅฝ“ใงใ™ใ‹(็ฌ‘ < 1203135370 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๅ™‚่ฉฑใจใ‹ใ‚’ใ—ใฆใ‚‚็งใฏๅ…จ็„ถๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚‰ใชใ„ใฎใงใ”ๅฎ‰ๅฟƒใ‚’ใ€‚ < 1203135394 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๆœฌๅฝ“ใฎๅฎ‰ๅฟƒใงใ™ใญใ€‚ < 1203135407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1203135422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203135424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203135425 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :่‡ชๅˆ†ใ‚ˆใ‚Šๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใง่…•ใŒใ‚ใ‚‹่€…ใŒใ„ใ‚Œใฐๆณฃใใพใ™ใ‹ใ‚‰ใ€‚ < 1203135435 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(็ฌ‘ < 1203135437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, my Unicode is not working ATM. < 1203135452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I recently did a Gentoo reinstall, and have not gotten IME and such working again) < 1203135453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it, but speak not a shred of Japanese < 1203135524 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: ใƒใƒ†ใ‚ฃใƒ–ใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„ใ‹ใ‚‰่‡ชๅˆ†ใ‚ˆใ‚Šๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใซ่…•ใฎใ‚ใ‚‹่€…ใŒใ„ใฆใ‚‚ๆ™ฎ้€šใ ใจๆ€ใ†ใ‘ใฉใ€‚ใใ‚Œใซๅ…จ็„ถๅˆ†ใ‹ใ‚‰ใชใ„ใ—ใ€‚ < 1203135556 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๆ™ฎ้€šใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ„๏ผ๏ผˆๆฑ— < 1203135575 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใใ‚Œใซใ—ใฆใ‚‚ใ€ใ“ใ‚ŒใŒใคใพใ‚‰ใชใ„่ฉฑใงใ™ใญใ€‚ < 1203135597 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :่‡ชๅทฑ็ดนไป‹ใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚็งใฏใ€ŒSukoshiใ€ใจใ‚‚ใ†ใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚ < 1203135643 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :๏ผ’ๅนดๅ‰ใซ่‡ช็ฟ’ใ‚’ๅง‹ใพใ‚Šใพใ—ใฆใ€ใ“ใ‚“ใ‚่ฉฑ็จ‹ๅบฆใ‚’็ฟ’ๅพ—ใ—ใพใ—ใŸใ€‚ < 1203135676 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใ‚ˆใ‚ใ—ใใ€ใŠ้ก˜ใ„ใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚ < 1203135731 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :็งใฏใ€Œbd_ใ€ใจ็”ณใ—ใพใ™ใ€‚ๅ‹‰ๅผทใ—ๅง‹ใ‚ใŸใฎใฏใƒปใƒปใƒปใพใ€ๆœ€ๅˆใฏใ‚ใ‚“ใพใ‚Š็œŸ้ข็›ฎใ˜ใ‚ƒใชใ‹ใฃใŸใฎใงใ‚ˆใ่ฆšใˆใฆใ„ใพใ›ใ‚“ใŒใ€ใŸใถใ‚“๏ผ”ๅนดๅ‰ใ ใฃใŸใจๆ€ใ„ใพใ™ใ€‚ใ‚ˆใ‚ใ—ใใŠ้ก˜ใ„ใ—ใพใ™ < 1203135768 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangใฎใ“ใจใง่ˆˆๅ‘ณใŒใ‚ใ‚‹ใงใ™ใฎใ€‚ < 1203135811 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใ‚“ใ‚“ใƒปใƒปใƒปใชใ„ใ‚ˆใ‚Šใ‚ใ‚‹ใจใ„ใ†็จ‹ๅบฆใงใ™ใญ๏ผˆ็ฌ‘ < 1203135812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION woul really love to be up to reading short novels. . . < 1203135828 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใพใ‚ใพใ‚ใ€‚๏ผˆ็ฌ‘ < 1203135829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that, I plan on actually (gasp) studying Japanese after high school. < 1203135891 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I transitioned from the manga/doujin level to the short novel level by immersing myself into a novel with notes. < 1203135899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are bd_ and Sukoshi` discussing? < 1203135911 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copied the notes (which were vocabulary and grammatical notes), made some of my own, and basically got up to speed that way. < 1203135935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No idea; my terminal can't, ATM, display Japanese. < 1203135949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: The problem being that I'm not at the manga/doujin level. < 1203135961 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got a copy of ookami to kousinryou in today :) I'm not quite sure if I'm up to reading it yet (kanji orz) but it's about time I started weaning myself off furigana... < 1203135973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji is a bitch. < 1203135980 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžๅ‹‰ๅผทๆ–นๆณ•ใฎ่ฉฑ้กŒใŒใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ™ใ€‚ < 1203135999 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :็ขบใ‹ใซใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ™ใญ๏ผˆ็ฌ‘ < 1203135999 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. I stopped relying on Furigana a while ago. < 1203136001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can either of Sukoshi` or bd_ explain what you two are talking about, in ENGLISH please? < 1203136010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's furigana < 1203136013 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: well, I know how to do lookups... I just get lazy :) < 1203136026 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I don't even do the lookups :P < 1203136031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookups? < 1203136034 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Too time consuming for the most part, and interrupt casual readings.) < 1203136053 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ไบŒๅนด้–“ใงใฉใ‚“ใ ใ‘ใ‡ < 1203136078 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I know what you mean - sort of skip over and try to puzzle out what they meant? < 1203136083 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time it is one word or two, and I can pick up the *general* meaning in context. ้คŒ was one word which I inferred slightly off from the actual meaning when I looked it up later. < 1203136087 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203136104 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1203136111 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the material though < 1203136118 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ใฉใ‚“ใ‚ใ‹ใชใ€‚ๆ—ฅๆœฌ่ชžใŒๆœ€ๆ„›ใช่ชžใ‹ใ‚‰ๅฟ…ๆญปใซๅ‹‰ๅผทใ—ใพใ—ใŸใชใ€‚ < 1203136120 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ookami to kousinryou has a lot of economics stuff later on I think < 1203136140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I going to get a response? < 1203136142 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read some stuff heavy on machinery/military, which is tough. But I haven't done much with economics and politics yet. < 1203136156 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally I tackle stuff like that electronically. < 1203136170 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well uh, it's sort of a random/self-introduction conversation thing < 1203136177 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Kanji lookups, because often-times Kanji have odd readings and act as certain words. < 1203136197 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the way to look them up is cumbersome, so. < 1203136217 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use pen input on a nintendo DS dictionary < 1203136222 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that fails, multiradical in wwwjdic < 1203136233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`, people who speak fluent Japanese don't need to do these lookups? < 1203136247 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably sometimes, there are a *lot* of kanji :) < 1203136255 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 2000 is the level for /basic/ literacy < 1203136272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers a #japanese room < 1203136276 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203136279 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are plenty more... < 1203136294 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have fun things like name readings (nanori) < 1203136307 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name readings are horrible. < 1203136312 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to catch up on those. < 1203136326 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where any given set of name kanji has multiple readings, and any given spoken name has multiple possible kanji associated with it, and if you're not told what is what :| < 1203136335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name readings are *nonexistent*. < 1203136392 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on. Can't you read ไธญๆœฌ < 1203136398 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ไธญๅฑฑ < 1203136406 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ็”ฐไธญ :P < 1203136411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's because my terminal can't display Unicode ATM. < 1203136419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read question marks. :p < 1203136439 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nakamoto. < 1203136442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1203136443 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nakayama. < 1203136444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203136445 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanaka. < 1203136446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?? < 1203136447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that < 1203136448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203136450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read those. < 1203136461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And write them. < 1203136467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is lost < 1203136470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would be the *easy* ones. ;) < 1203136538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Konichiwa" is the extent of my knowledge of Japanese-anything, and I'm scared that even that might be wrong/idiotic < 1203136549 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kon'nichiwa < 1203136554 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konnichiha. < 1203136555 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1203136565 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, however you romanize it. < 1203136590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer not to. < 1203136628 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't for the first 6 months either. < 1203136654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: For demonstration of how badly my first Japanese teacher sucked: he did not teach kana until 2nd year. < 1203136676 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shudder* < 1203136710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1203136717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I self-taught kana first year. < 1203136741 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware that my school's Japanese program is one of the best, and I considered it haplessly slow. < 1203136763 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I never took it, I have become the lofty "Japanese expert" of the school. < 1203136821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lofty 'Japanese expert' of my school is a Japanese citizen. < 1203136827 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203136854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works out a bit better that way. ;) < 1203136859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was the lofty computer expert at his HS < 1203136860 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet :) < 1203136863 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm that too. < 1203136868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to be that lofty expert in college < 1203136870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my role. < 1203136879 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the lofty electricity/Physics expert. < 1203136880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In college, it sure as fuck won't be mine. < 1203136894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in a school with a damned good CS program. ;p < 1203136897 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :College is coming up soon, and I intend to be the best there, so :) < 1203136909 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lucky I have a day like today to catch my breath from the life stuff. < 1203136910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what college? < 1203136914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer job at Tuft's, then college. < 1203136927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Missouri University of Science & Technology. < 1203136930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203136936 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come you didn't apply to CMU? < 1203136942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale considered to be good? < 1203136945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Hmm? < 1203136955 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMU? Carnegie Melon? < 1203136955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMU == ??? < 1203136959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203136966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes < 1203136977 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanford and MIT are there too, but MIT is way up there. < 1203136987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they chuck out your application with an 'F' on the transcript, then I'm screwed. < 1203136990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale's stuff good? < 1203137004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(English == :() < 1203137031 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton is always nice if you're a science geek, and nice on the pocket book too. < 1203137044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone going to answer me? < 1203137046 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the revolutionarily inclined there's Berkeley (or if you want to be an anarchist hobo and waste your life). < 1203137054 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never heard of Farmingdale. < 1203137066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if not, what's a good place in Long Island? < 1203137109 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rice isn't as good as CMU, but is there. As is Urbana Champaign. < 1203137121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$47,375 is light on the pocket book? < 1203137128 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke :) < 1203137135 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton has one of the most hefty fees, IIRC. < 1203137148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203137160 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berkeley is fairly light on the pocketbook, especially if you're a Californian resident. < 1203137161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say, 'how many millions are you worth?' < 1203137187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm not. < 1203137194 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's still a lot lighter than others. < 1203137204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1203137212 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with the prestige/skill of their CS program. < 1203137217 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their EECS is godly, of course. < 1203137326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? < 1203137327 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silence. < 1203137331 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1203137390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be dual-majoring in math and CS. . . < 1203137391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheee. < 1203137411 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably be doing an EECS with some Law somewhere. < 1203137422 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I wish the gain on my Loop Antenna wasn't so high sometimes. < 1203137462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale a good CIS program or not? < 1203137469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1203137473 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of Farmingdale. < 1203137483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard of MST? < 1203137499 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most Significant Txxx ? < 1203137520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missouri University of Science and Technology. I'm guessing that's a 'No.' < 1203137537 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tad. < 1203137546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203137549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts? < 1203137551 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't heard much though. And they tried to rabidly contact me, I think. < 1203137569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the big problem with them. . . < 1203137575 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Southern Methodist University, and that horribly annoying Fordham that would not quit. < 1203137583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to overdo the contacting thing. < 1203137586 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a few others contacted me too. < 1203137589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten 5 applications from them. . . < 1203137596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 I received after I was accepted. < 1203137618 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fordham extended their application for me 5 times, while filling out all my information, and waiving the application fee. < 1203137627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203137636 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extended meaning extended the apply date. < 1203137644 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. I don't want to go to Fordham. So, why. < 1203137649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203137661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite happy with MST. . . < 1203137671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I need to get *off* their contact list. XD < 1203137675 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYU waived the application fee too, I believe, but NYU is an arts campus. < 1203137691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had teachers suggest that I go to Tuft's. . . < 1203137702 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuft's? Never heard 'o it. < 1203137730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A well-reputed liberal arts college, IIRC. < 1203137734 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203137741 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton is great in the arts, law, and sciences. < 1203137744 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A great mix of 3. < 1203137755 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woodrow Wilson :3 < 1203137795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just imagine me at a liberal arts school. . . < 1203137802 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1203137813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, my long hair and beard would make me *look* like I belong. . . < 1203137827 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the stereotypical female science nerd. < 1203137837 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am bored by non-Law art, so. < 1203137838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their CS department sucks horribly. < 1203137864 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. For win. < 1203137873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MST's, on the other hand, is quite awesome, and has existed for 50 years, IIRC.) < 1203137877 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYU has a fairly good science program, but, it's known to be the MIT of Arts. < 1203137882 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mean, eww. < 1203137886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203137930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you don't like a school in the middle of nowhere, then MST is not for you. . . (why do schools of mines need to be in the middle of nowhere? :p) < 1203137945 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Colorado School of Mines contacted me also. < 1203137957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MST > CSM. . . < 1203137966 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remembering. < 1203137968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CSM would actually be a sane choice for me. . . < 1203137973 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203137975 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1203137980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about half an hour away. :p < 1203137986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a bit more than that. . . < 1203137986 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it was a quick chuck down the recycle bin. < 1203138006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's more of the low-level, 'If I don't get accepted anywhere else' thing. < 1203138009 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203138016 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My low level is OSU, because my dad went there. < 1203138026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's quite amusing seeing my teachers' high level of regard for that school) < 1203138039 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washington didn't even have admission essays, meh. < 1203138063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it is the best school in the state. . . < 1203138064 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSU meaning Ohio State. < 1203138077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138131 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Caltech or Princeton would be ideal for me, but both are OMG-HOLY-MACKEREL schools. < 1203138131 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1203138157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where I put MIT at. . . < 1203138162 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caltech has a dash of Pol. Sci, and Princeton's law is of course excellent. < 1203138166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could *not* get into MIT. < 1203138178 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might get into Caltech or Princeton. < 1203138184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they'd throw away my application after seeing my transcript, guaranteed.) < 1203138200 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got an interview from a school in that tier whose name I will not share for luck reasons. < 1203138205 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm in the running, I think. < 1203138231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best of luck to you. < 1203138235 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1203138240 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even bother to MIT. < 1203138258 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if some guy got a shot of unintended Extasy (? the drug ?) would I get in. < 1203138277 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanford was my ZETTAI-UNATTAINABLE. < 1203138325 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what've you been up to pikhq ? < 1203138403 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life involved 7 months of studying for one exam, and now it involves running an anime convention committee, self-studying Linear Algebra/Multivariable Calculus, some light hacking, politics, and languages among other things. I'm also trying to get into some video games, but am realizing what 5 years of video game disuse does. < 1203138457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Studying Japanese, studying calculus, and some light hacking. < 1203138473 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I forgot to mention a new-found devotion to the game of Nomic. < 1203138479 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! < 1203138488 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomic, I started a game with some friends over that. < 1203138490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You familiar with it? < 1203138491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a player in Agora, which is the longest-running Nomic in existence. < 1203138554 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and also, I'm planning a Senior prank which involves infiltration of the school gradebook and school website. (Some local public school in the area chock full of high-income students got the title "academic powerhouse" after they attempted to crack the school website for finals answers. I resent that just because we have a low income, we are discriminated against.) < 1203138556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 15th Agoran birthday is this June. < 1203138560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooh. < 1203138569 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl folks- gotta restart < 1203138579 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gradebook is already infiltrated. The website is in the works, and I'm in the process of doing some infiltration into the school network. < 1203138585 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203138591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil. ;p < 1203138601 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203138606 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in good fun, of course. < 1203138619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You going to become a regular again if/when your life settles down a bit more? < 1203138626 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesen't help that they have completely publicized a Cisco router. < 1203138632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're kidding. < 1203138636 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1203138646 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the gradebook is a private thing. < 1203138653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they've got telnet access open to the world, I bet. < 1203138663 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some creative cracking and some insider information got me in there. < 1203138671 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. But they will have an nc backdoor soon :) < 1203138680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203138682 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll even run nc with telnet services :D < 1203138719 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cisco router is publicized locally rather. Sorry. < 1203138744 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an external publication. However, I'm thinking of proxying that out. This involves getting admin access to the machine which involves grabbing hashes. < 1203138758 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already done the social engineering needed to grab the hashes. The rest is time and circumspection. < 1203138778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a poorly planned network. < 1203138785 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1203138793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My school's network would probably be trivial to shut down. . . < 1203138801 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a DNS is easy. < 1203138811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The damned thing has 10MB/s links all over the place. < 1203138812 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actual content manipulation takes some skill. < 1203138828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A DOS would probably leave them down for ages. < 1203138830 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No public Wi-Fi anymore, so the limit is working with the bloody school mahines. < 1203138839 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DNS = DOS < 1203138847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethernet ports are not hard to find. < 1203138872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just kinda set the switches right next to the computers. . . < 1203138879 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the librarians are right there. < 1203138899 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no machine save this 8 year old desktop clunker with a 10-11 year old video card. < 1203138920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the classrooms. . . < 1203138928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With teachers who don't pay attention. . . < 1203138938 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, a laptop is needed. < 1203138987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1203139007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know a computer lab with the computers mismanaged. . . < 1203139016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert Knoppix and go. < 1203139023 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus school authorities/police prowl the outside. We're a low income school with the gang bit and all. < 1203139102 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to report, we've had only 1 fatality :) < 1203139134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203139151 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203139161 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew the guy and I was a Freshman at the time, so. < 1203139247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only fatalities at my school that I know of involved an apartment building burning down. . . < 1203139262 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a school building burn down too, but that was before my time. < 1203139265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks, but not quite gang warfare. < 1203139300 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since the school lies on the San Andreas fault-line (yay cheap land!) it got split in half during the '89 Earthquake. < 1203139355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203139379 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203139384 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well other stuff have happened, but there's no point getting into it. It's just a consequence of being poor and living in a country ruled by free market hawkers. < 1203139387 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy again folks < 1203139396 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and holy crap Sukoshi` is back! < 1203139399 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203139459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, this country kinda sucks in that regard. < 1203139523 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with Guiliani. Let's get rid of all the taxes we can. < 1203139543 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, isn't what makes America great its independent spirit and non-government reliance? *rolls eyes* < 1203139591 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've missed important parts of this conversation < 1203139598 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203139694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you have. < 1203139702 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, how's life been treating you, Sukoshi`? < 1203139710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I just got a first post on /. < 1203139733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without trying. < 1203139787 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busily. < 1203139842 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief, but descriptive < 1203139852 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since today's the first day of vacation, I have some off time, even though I've been putting off some council stuff. < 1203139988 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last few months have been pretty busy, too- I've been making a lot of things. < 1203140013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking forward to this summer. . . < 1203140017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ought to be less busy. < 1203140026 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too. I get to also join a Diff. Eqs. class :) < 1203140035 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll have all the math I need to start college with an EMW class. < 1203140044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, I won't end up getting homework from my system administration job. :p < 1203140061 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I plan to fan-translate a Japanese novel. < 1203140115 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have some $200 and am planning either to get a radio scanner or get into some Ham Radio. < 1203140132 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty stuff. < 1203140152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be up in Boston this summer. :) < 1203140155 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I may get an old PS2 and try to get back into the video games thing which I'm faleing at now. < 1203140157 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally finished that pokemon clone I was working on a while back: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CRPG < 1203140172 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on cleaning it up a little and putting together an SDK < 1203140175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my first job will actually be relevant to my career. Imagine that. ;p < 1203140189 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to get some Japanese translation job. < 1203140195 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysadminning is fairly boring to me. < 1203140214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1203140232 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phrase "internet janitor" comes to mind < 1203140250 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yah. < 1203140293 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look no further than pmhaddad, who now has no free time and is completely consumed by his $10-an-hour job. < 1203140307 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly my point. < 1203140307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful. < 1203140316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This summer, I'll be making more than pmhaddad. XD < 1203140316 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, in a summer job you won't be compromising between work and school, which is what's really retarded about his situation < 1203140338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The job will be $15-an-hour. < 1203140346 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas a translation job will probably be $12/hr, will consume not as much free time, and will be intellectually stimulating assuming you completely ignore the subject matter. < 1203140354 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, wow- IT. What a great use of a CS degree. < 1203140361 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :D < 1203140365 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend the translation job to go on while schooling. < 1203140382 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a fun way of making some cash with a hobby < 1203140394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that $15-an-hour for your first job is not exactly a bad deal, though. < 1203140416 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm working as a grader for "Object Oriented Design" at MTU, and I recently started doing undergrad research < 1203140419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than starting at $FASTFOOD at minimum wage. < 1203140438 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, my first job was $5.15, minimum wage at the time < 1203140449 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it wasn't burger flipping. :/ < 1203140452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: That's still nation-wide minimum wage. < 1203140460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few states set it higher. < 1203140462 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :California's minimum wage is a good bit higher, but. < 1203140472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorado's is more like $6.50 now. < 1203140484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only has been for a year or so. . . < 1203140488 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Michigan is $7.00, I think < 1203140489 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation is a skilled job. At a bare JLPT 1 mastery, not very skilled, but skilled enough to be decent. < 1203140501 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're looking at ~$8.50 here. < 1203140504 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make $7.50 per hour grading, and $8.00 doing research < 1203140535 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to hope research is a skilled job. :| < 1203140546 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203140587 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also been doing some cooking. < 1203140600 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in case my life ends in a horrible climax and I become a housewife (joke). < 1203140661 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to fidget with my too-high-gain loop antenna and hope to get a clear signal for the public TV station. < 1203140676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing more comic art related stuff. Check out a short story I made a few weeks ago: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Good/ < 1203140677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah; TV. < 1203140680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who has the time? < 1203140699 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I occasionally have enough time to get good political/economic coverage from it. < 1203140700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That time can be better spent reading. < 1203140724 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, the history specials on PBS are always fun. < 1203140743 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's local news, which I eat dinner to... < 1203140745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted. < 1203140761 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mythbusters is still pretty awesome, when I get a chance to catch an episode < 1203140763 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm fidgeting with an antenna, what sort of TV do you expect me to get? :D < 1203140765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually read when I eat. XD < 1203140780 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A homemade loop for me. < 1203140806 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the morning it's almost crystal clear, at night it's not as nice, but still clearer than a dipole ... if you can handle the high gain. < 1203141737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203143289 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: so, did you take a look at "define your good"? < 1203143384 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm? < 1203143396 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Good/ <- this < 1203144245 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203144284 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203144289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203144291 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203145352 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]} < 1203145355 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]} < 1203145382 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]} < 1203145385 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1203145655 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!linguini 1[0=72,0$,0+29,0$,0+7,0$,0$,0+3,0$,1=32,1$,0-24,0$,0+24,0$,0+3,0$,0-6,0$,0-8,0$,1+1,1$,1-23,1$]0 < 1203145659 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203145680 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!linguine 1[0=72,0$,0+29,0$,0+7,0$,0$,0+3,0$,1=32,1$,0-24,0$,0+24,0$,0+3,0$,0-6,0$,0-8,0$,1+1,1$,1-23,1$]0 < 1203145685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1203145733 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203145737 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203145739 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203146911 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203148706 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night everyone < 1203148799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203148800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203156808 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203157106 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1203157760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: weebees to you, milady < 1203157882 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-80-25.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203158136 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203158471 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203158610 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :) < 1203158614 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I must part, alas. < 1203158629 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203159238 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203162216 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203162671 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203165468 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203166593 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203167822 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203168956 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203169672 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203169915 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203170164 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203170762 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]" < 1203170834 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203172736 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203172740 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203172773 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203176529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1203178665 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has "American mathematical society translations : series 2, volume 29" :D < 1203178692 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the definition of an algorithm", by A.N. Kolmogorov and V.A. Uspenskii < 1203179290 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203180721 0 :otesanek!n=otesanek@217.195.209.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203180915 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203181208 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203181212 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203182673 0 :otesanek!n=otesanek@217.195.209.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203184404 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203185524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203185596 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: read the current discussion in ##Nonlogic. < 1203186364 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203186379 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203187093 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203187664 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203187694 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1203187752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pnog. < 1203187782 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we're using UDP here < 1203187872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1203187877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDP over IRC. < 1203187971 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster and lighter weight, but some transcription errors and packet loss < 1203188033 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203188042 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203188509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreaWE)(Uยฃ$I!!ยฌ+_PACKET ERROR < 1203188528 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke < 1203188590 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://pastebin.ca/905230 what i wish tcl looked like < 1203188599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an addition to that: < 1203188616 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn K {x} {fn {y} {return $x}} <-- would work < 1203188625 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can be seen trivially if you take a look < 1203188643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203188645 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/return/ret < 1203188646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1203188652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the examples are stupid < 1203188655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ret [x]} -> {x} < 1203188662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the 'call' part. < 1203188679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[fn {x {+ $x 1}}] 2 < 1203188690 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906473 update < 1203188707 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, everything's a string, so wouldn't that make it try and call the command of some weird string? < 1203188713 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wouldn't that require special handling of some stuff? < 1203188719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The return value of fn. < 1203188727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, good point < 1203188741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'fn' could return the {{args} ...} syntax when used as a string, < 1203188747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as a function -- .. < 1203188749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have first-class functions in Tcl, then functions would need to have a string representation. < 1203188764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i just said -- they do < 1203188767 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{args} ...} < 1203188769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1203188771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't account for lexical scope, though. < 1203188784 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1203188786 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that hard. < 1203188787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it? Variables have scope, not values. ;) < 1203188795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906475 <-- doubly-updated < 1203188814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because the idea is that the cacheing of otherly-typed values is just an interpreter feature, no? < 1203188818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203188829 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906475 NEEDS to be interpreted -- and fat ;) < 1203188831 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1203188834 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast. < 1203188856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how Tcl rolls. ;p < 1203188862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the shell style $num... for one thing, it means that the toplevel can have then as program arguments, fitting in well.. and as another, short functions generally can make use of them well < 1203188884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't much like the $0 and such, though. < 1203188898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not a huge deal. . . < 1203188907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The revolutionary bit is the first-class functions. ;) < 1203188921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: uhh < 1203188923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i just said < 1203188923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203188932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. it fits in with trivial CLI arg handling < 1203188936 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. it's very useful for short functions < 1203188940 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare: < 1203188941 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {+ $0 $0} < 1203188947 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {x} {+ $x $x} < 1203188969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already have trivial CLI arg handling. List of args. Big woop. < 1203188976 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you really argue the second is clearer in intent, if you know the $num syntax -- which can be explained in one sentence: "$n is the function's argument n." < 1203188982 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stil, it's clearner. < 1203188984 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cleaner < 1203188991 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lets you imagine prog = function, basically. < 1203189002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, since shells follow that model, especially with user defined functions, is a correct one. < 1203189015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just 'another reason' for the sugar, with the other being as above < 1203189062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Tcl script is, in that since, just a function that takes args. < 1203189073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(args is how Tcl does variadic functions) < 1203189097 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cute, cute. < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you see my point, surely? < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expanding dbl into triple: < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {+ $0 $0 $0} < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn triple {+ $0 $0 $0} < 1203189115 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn triple {x} {+ $x $x $x} < 1203189117 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelling out: < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Function triple, add first, first, first.' < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Function triple, taking x, add x, x, x.' < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is clearer. < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For simple cases. < 1203189195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1203189218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't much like it, but even then, that's a simple change to Tcl, and if I don't like it, I don't have to use it. < 1203189238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now I come up with the idea "hey, an implementation couldn't be too hard! i mean, there's a simple Tcl in 500 lines..." and nothing ever actually happens. < 1203189280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implement your ideas, submit it as a TIP for Tcl 9. < 1203189303 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's no fun < 1203189309 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's far more fun to write a new and revolutionary interpreter. < 1203189313 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203189330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I could make Tk not ugly as all hell by default! Maybe even use native widgets on Win32&OS X. :P < 1203189409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1203189413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not on OS X. < 1203189418 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I know this for a fact :P < 1203189421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does last time I tried it. < 1203189423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2003. < 1203189431 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it does. < 1203189438 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the text widgets, for example, are most certainly not native < 1203189449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know for *sure* that they did that in Tcl 8.5. < 1203189468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they did it suckily < 1203189470 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203189486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's needed is native widgets for X11 archs. < 1203189508 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Define 'native'. < 1203189520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt and GTK+, in addition to the current implementation. < 1203189522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gtk? Some people use KDE. They want Qt. Oh, some people don't like either -- they want Motif, for chrissakes! < 1203189536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think something that looks passably good would be ok. < 1203189538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk right now imitates Motif. < 1203189544 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as it's stylable you should be alright. < 1203189552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though. < 1203189557 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i'm going to write my own implementation, < 1203189562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if *that's* all you care about, Tcl 8.5 made Tk stylable. < 1203189564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use wxWidgets as the backend. < 1203189575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wx is pretty good on all platforms. < 1203189591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with OS X you have to do a few little tweaks to make its pinstripes slightly less fugly than they are by default.. < 1203189593 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's mostly good. < 1203189611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Qt would be terrible. < 1203189617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1203189629 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would mean nobody could develop a Tk app using the Qt backend commercially without paying Trolltech crazy amounts of money. < 1203189643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True 'nough. < 1203189652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only person that would complain would be Larry McVoy. < 1203189661 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I would sure complain. < 1203189665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the reason I don't use Qt. :( < 1203189673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a shame -- Qt as an actual toolkit is *superb* < 1203189675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your free software? < 1203189693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correct. < 1203189699 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason I don't use readline.. < 1203189704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keep in mind that you *can* sell free software. . .) < 1203189721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of immense curiosity, what crack are you smoking? :p < 1203189730 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libedit crack. < 1203189737 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they want a GPL-alike, the LGPL is there for a REASON) < 1203189776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readline is GPL at the behest of RMS. < 1203189791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea being to only reward free software with a library which, at the time, was unique) < 1203189809 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, well RMS is crazy anyway. < 1203189829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why do you use his licenses? < 1203189846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1203189859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your CTCP version begs to differ. < 1203189874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, I only use X-Chat when I'm on Linux.. < 1203189882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you are right now benefitting from 20 years of his work. < 1203189898 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just forget about all the other people who did more work while he sat around yelilng < 1203189903 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more convenient. < 1203189928 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha- jesus christ: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=4766 < 1203189933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1203189943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unfortunate that a lot of software is GPL, indeed, but if the software itself is good I am willing to use it. < 1203189943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you won't mind uninstalling glibc? < 1203189961 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, libraries under the GPL without a linking exception (glibc has one of these, so stfu) are unacceptable. < 1203189968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or everything else written by the GNU project? < 1203189981 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do know that the GNU project != RMS? < 1203189990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's head of it. < 1203189990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I venture RMS's code makes a *very small part* of glibc today. < 1203190003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True enough; it's currently maintained by Red Hat. < 1203190026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you like *Emacs*, you're going to be using his code fairly constantly. < 1203190031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is the Emacs maintainer) < 1203190043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, he's head of it but does very little actual coding... (In case you accuse me of copying esr: he's even more of an idiot, and should take his own advice. And hopefully blow his own foot off... he does use C, there is a chance...) < 1203190060 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like Emacs because I code Haskell and haskell-mode.el is the only real solution. < 1203190077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.. pretty much it. Also, because i have used it for a while I have some of the keycombos in muscle memory. < 1203190106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- and rms sure didn't write haskell-mode < 1203190107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you're willing to call the man fucking crazy, yet benefit from his labors. < 1203190138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. He just wrote the language haskell-mode is in. < 1203190178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: elisp is pretty shitty. < 1203190182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sure, I am. < 1203190189 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he's crying of the hurt. < 1203190208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. He *did* write it with the assumption that it would be running on systems too small to handle a full, decent lisp. < 1203190209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's just a matter of me not having written good haskell support for a decently licensed editor, yet. < 1203190220 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because lexical scoping would kill them, with fire. < 1203190233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was designed with things like the 386 in mind) < 1203190256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, less than the 386. . . < 1203190261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'83. XD < 1203190414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure the 386 could handle a lexically scoped lisp < 1203190414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure something even simpler could too < 1203190422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realised that < 1203190422 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203190424 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help your argument much. < 1203190428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1203190430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme was out in the 70s < 1203190432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisps before that had lexscoping, of course.. < 1203190434 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a problem < 1203190485 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heck, LISP 1.5 had it. < 1203190496 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently FUNARG is complex and scary and could never work on any machine ever. < 1203190512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, anyone going to touch the Internet-aware BF program? < 1203190524 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not without a 10-foot pole < 1203190556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x00\x02\x03\x03pole\n < 1203190573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x00\x03\x00\n\n < 1203190575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not 10 feet < 1203190579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go < 1203190589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_textgen pole < 1203190592 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203190610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1203190621 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with balanced <>s is concatenative < 1203190622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1203190632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"concatenative"? < 1203190714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Go read up on programming languages will you? ... < 1203190721 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared of what PSOX will look like otherwise :P < 1203190729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"will look like"? < 1203190824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The core PSOX spec is basically complete < 1203190906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah exactly. < 1203190924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing what concatenativity is isn't really that crucial < 1203191028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, PSOX isn't a programming language < 1203191273 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is < 1203191276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not turing complete < 1203191278 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is < 1203191289 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it is still a programmin language < 1203191309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a programming language? < 1203191360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is an interpreter for it < 1203191369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it performs actions like user input, output, etc < 1203191374 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: agreed? < 1203191787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a matter of opinion < 1203191835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm.. actually, i don't think it is a programming language < 1203191844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can be called a < 1203191872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: msot everything is a programming language < 1203191874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trivial ones < 1203191890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to help me write a program that will do something intuitive when given http://pastebin.ca/906475? pikhq? :P < 1203192397 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently, not pikhq < 1203192505 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is dead in fact < 1203192537 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate < 1203192560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, pleasewakeupnow < 1203192572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pikhq] idle 00:38:25, signon: Fri Feb 15 22:18:56 < 1203192596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, ehird`, are you going to examine the Internet-enabled BF program? < 1203192603 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203192665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat? < 1203192676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1203192690 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little busy mummifying apples at the moment < 1203192926 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: qhkip < 1203192942 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203193126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq < 1203193189 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203193307 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq: pikhq: ... eh. > cycle "pikhq: " < 1203193611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203193666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: PSOX isn't a programming language, it's an API. < 1203193680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is basically a language though. < 1203193688 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ANYWAY HELP ME WRITE INTERPRETER FOR AWESOMETHINGTHATLOOKSKINDOFLIKETCL < 1203193691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203193719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask in #tcl. < 1203193734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tcl maintainers may be more helpful than I am. < 1203193765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. Tcl maintainers. A newwww interpreter must exist! < 1203193767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you going to examine/play with that BF program? < 1203193794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Me need shower and cleaning. < 1203193798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, later today. < 1203193917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203194820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, online.b. . . < 1203194836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1203194844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it basically netcat? < 1203194863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, you're assuming I know what netcat is < 1203194866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1203194879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if so, how do you specify the port it's on? < 1203194895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not netcat < 1203194910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. What port does it connect on? < 1203194912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You put in a URL and it will print out whatever's at that URL < 1203194939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. . .] < 1203194948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. . . < 1203194985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's wget. < 1203194986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever. < 1203195025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, wget saves to disk, this just sends to stdout < 1203195033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying it yourself? < 1203195037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203195079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I suggest sometime doing a bit of a more raw TCP interface? < 1203195100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be a custom domain < 1203195125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be builtin. < 1203195138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like db_fileio. < 1203195166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a "networking" domain? < 1203195171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1203195188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the other domains need to be worked on first < 1203195202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, maybe I should limit the http domain to URLs beginning with http:// < 1203195657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, HTTP::get will create a new fd. . . < 1203195664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What number would that be assigned? < 1203195704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowest available FD number < 1203195717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always what new FDs are assigned < 1203195726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FDs 0, 1, 2, and 3 are already taken < 1203195824 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203195847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is the current outfile FD, 1 is the current infile FD, 2 is stdout, 3 is stdin < 1203196008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, make sense? < 1203196041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203196249 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203196267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan < 1203196354 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203196441 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be interesting to try to build a neurode out of electronic things. < 1203196585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo, ihope < 1203196677 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1203196849 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have a ground input, a voltage input, some input inputs, an output, and a feedback thingy. < 1203196893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The feedback would be at the same voltage as the output, but putting current in and out of it would change what the output's "supposed to be". < 1203197498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorah. < 1203197515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got myself a much fancier wget script. < 1203197527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It pulls from the command line and won't break on outputting null. < 1203197703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203197772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, a suggested change for PSOX.py. . . < 1203197787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it start with #!/usr/bin/python, and chmod +x. < 1203197800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it's just ./PSOX.py egobfi8 foo.b < 1203197819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would let me install PSOX somewhere, and have my code start with a shebang. . . < 1203197822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And magically work. < 1203198218 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not /usr/bin/env python? < 1203198229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thoughts on my very first PSOX script? < 1203198233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Ah; right. < 1203198244 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or `which python`. :-P < 1203198497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203198499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry hi < 1203198522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afk < 1203198619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next up: the Brainfuck Audio suite. < 1203198652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, cool < 1203198652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it'd be really nice if the command line handling was nicer than just -c "foo". . . < 1203198678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloaded and tried the wget.b < 1203198679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could do ./PSOX.py egobfi8 bfaudio.b -i raw_audio -o foo.bf < 1203198682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coolness pikhq < 1203198707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not sure how that would work < 1203198714 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203198770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi helios24 < 1203198789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason though, the first time I tried wget.b, it didn't work < 1203198810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b is the first PSOX program made by someone other than me :D < 1203198819 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203198912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you neglect to give it -c? < 1203198932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1203198933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203198934 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made wget.b < 1203198938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, pikhq did < 1203198946 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he didn't < 1203198951 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he questioned about it before < 1203198954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203198960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online.b is what Sgeo made. < 1203198962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b is mine. < 1203198977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote it to be better. < 1203199001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes the file to get from the command line, and its output routine works with NULLs. < 1203199005 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox is soooo pointless and ugly < 1203199012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck has been DONE TO DEATH alread < 1203199013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203199022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203199024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, PSOX works with more than just BF < 1203199048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX works with anything that does I/O. < 1203199057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, technically, do Malbolge with it. < 1203199077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could *trivially* do shell with it. . . Or C. . . < 1203199091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which remind me: I need to get my C-using PSOX library written this weekend. :p < 1203199120 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nice argument too bad you always say 'Oh it's designed for BF!' < 1203199131 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be crap with anything else < 1203199146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's designed for most any esolang. < 1203199160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the math domain won't be as useful in some, like Glass. < 1203199231 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wrong! Sgeo has claimed many times that he only thinks of BF. < 1203199237 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, there's no POINT for something like this... < 1203199245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs aren't any better because they can make a webserver. < 1203199279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, I mostly think about BF, but that doesn't mean it's exclusively for BF < 1203199321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, is there a point for any esolang? < 1203199354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if maybe ehird` is bitter about the lack of TDATA (the "ANY" type) < 1203199421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's most likely it :D < 1203199464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TDATA was basically ehird`'s idea, and I liked it until it proved to be incompatible with decision to make PSOX types regex-based < 1203199493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with the decision < 1203199558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is candy is the sine of a crayon < 1203199581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird` pinged out in Sine < 1203199595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sine is a network we're both on. I brought him over, actually) < 1203199622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1203199641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know about Sine? < 1203199646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc. < 1203199655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg me the server and port < 1203199673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that. < 1203199676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203199694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know everything about it i've heard in here. < 1203199712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a weird sentence, but it's most definitely true < 1203199917 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203199931 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1203199950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203199985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, though: TCP domain. < 1203200012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 TCP CONNECT address port \n < 1203200038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0x00 TCP LISTEN port \n < 1203200095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap. < 1203200125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap -> < 1203200162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203200571 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203200595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: What? < 1203200627 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203200654 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You won't help me write awesometclthing < 1203200656 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203200672 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, implementing continuations would scare me < 1203200673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203200823 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw - i really like tcl's lists < 1203200829 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a b c" is a list of a, b, c right? < 1203200831 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: < 1203200835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "a {b c} d" work? < 1203200835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as nested < 1203200857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203200873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to [list a [list b c] d] < 1203200906 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The "list ..." translates into the string not the other way around < 1203200907 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1203200995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1203201067 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linked list, or array? < 1203201130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, actually. < 1203201160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't know of Tcl doing some of the fancier things a linked list lets you do, it could well be just an array. < 1203201186 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1203201195 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now help me implement awesomeclosureandlovetcl! :( < 1203201335 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203201507 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random tcl wiki person: "Also - it somehow strikes me again and again this whole concept is about reintroducing the evil goto statement, but kind of neat and nifty so noone would recognise. But this could be because I still might haven't grokked it yet..." < 1203201513 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evil goto' is in bold. < 1203201519 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on continuations) < 1203201586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuations are not like goto. < 1203201614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one could argue that the infamous long_jmp is *like* a continuation. . . < 1203201671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a long_jmp? < 1203201733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's continuation-like thing. < 1203201763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets you jump across functions. < 1203201811 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: setjmp jusrt saves stack length < 1203201827 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the stack goes down beyond setjmp --- nuh uh < 1203201851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: It's not *perfectly* like continuations. . . < 1203201868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, it's a hell of a lot rougher and less, well, formal. < 1203201878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lets just dick with the stack a bit. Yay!' < 1203202046 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: setjmp is equivalent to exceptions < 1203202057 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exceptions are as related to continuations as to goto < 1203202091 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw -- i just realised that if we add closures etc to tcl, refcounting is not enough < 1203202095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest: < 1203202101 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcount + infrequently run gc < 1203202208 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203202342 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: agreed? < 1203202375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1203202497 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And also, anonymous 'fn's shouldn't return a random name (Jim does this) -- they should have no name < 1203202498 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also agreed? < 1203202512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1203202568 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And the first thing written should be the parser. Agreed x50? :P < 1203202604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, is that a jab at me? < 1203202612 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Huh? < 1203202638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At me writing PSOX specs first instead of immediately working on the interpreter < 1203202647 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, the only thing the parser should do is the obvious token seperation, and making sure ", {, [ are balanced. Then, {...} should be converted to "...". < 1203202652 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, it's seperated like this: < 1203202660 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo {bar $xyz[abc]}"def" -> < 1203202665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: Well, of course. < 1203202673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, "bar $xyz[abc]", "def" < 1203202674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl is fairly trivial to parse. ;) < 1203202677 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this: < 1203202681 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo {bar $xyz[abc]{def}}"def" -> < 1203202684 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, "bar $xyz[abc]{def}", "def" < 1203202692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl proper, that's a syntax error. < 1203202698 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, which part < 1203202709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{foo}"bar" < 1203202712 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203202722 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm insure what that should be: < 1203202723 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. error < 1203202725 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. "foobar" < 1203202728 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. "foo" "bar" < 1203202737 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. is shell, 3. is proglang, 1. is tcl :) < 1203202775 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203202821 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1203202834 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thoughts? < 1203202860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Corun < 1203202928 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, apparently. pikhq is a zombie. < 1203202929 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203202929 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo < 1203202975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1203202991 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why he's a zombie. < 1203202991 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So -- no preference? < 1203203092 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Guess not. :P < 1203203344 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203203479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: missing = after otherwise < 1203203494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a dagger after Mr. Wong < 1203203521 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know... < 1203203557 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhping < 1203203570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1203203869 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now you are forced to name the interp. :P < 1203203995 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203204141 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You run away! :P < 1203204287 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203204365 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq pikhq pikhq pikhq :D < 1203204597 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq < 1203204662 0 :volimo!i=osofogo@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3efa00-215.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1203204829 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1203204829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping < 1203204832 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203204834 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think he's dead < 1203204909 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/42bsd-finger.c.txt can this really be what inspired the IOCCC? I mean, it's not NICE code, loads of magic constants and stuff, but ... < 1203204921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible. he is not saying "BRAINS. BRAINS." < 1203205006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the IOCCC was inspired by cpp definitions making C look like ALGOL or something < 1203205050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sort of has a question regarding the future of PSOX < 1203205104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, maybe you can help? >.> < 1203205111 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thats one of the inspirations < 1203205113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I make the math functions just accept LNUMs? < 1203205115 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Bourne sh < 1203205121 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should drop PSOX. < 1203205126 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(morale: don't ask my opinion) < 1203205141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, you did have an influence on PSOX < 1203205151 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what? < 1203205153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. "Larry had been trying to fix a bug in the classic Bourne shell (C code #defined to death to sort of look like Algol) and I had been working on the finger program from early BSD (a bug ridden finger implementation to be sure)." < 1203205162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBYTES are called LBYTES not LSTRING < 1203205178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with FBYTES < 1203205185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Blargh. < 1203205191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1203205191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LNUMs are just too complex for some cases. < 1203205216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean single bytes? < 1203205220 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you have proper unistrings yet?.. < 1203205224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203205233 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, UTF-8. < 1203205247 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, you can just replace all L/FBYTES with L/FSTRING, if you just hardcode english text in bf < 1203205254 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. backwards compatible < 1203205259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still use L/FBYTES for, well, bytes < 1203205279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as far as I can tell, using LNUMs in that case would just be a bit of overhead < 1203205299 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any ideas for a name? < 1203205301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either that, or make a function that switches the type that functions accept (difficult), or make repetitive functions (ugly) < 1203205321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Repetitive functions would not be that ugly as far as I'm concerned. < 1203205347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you think I need a VARG(LNUM) version of each math function? < 1203205396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not subtraction or division obviously) < 1203205436 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody? :( < 1203205443 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 'difficult'? Hardly < 1203205459 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Subtraction or division not varity? Why not? < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;1> (- 1 2 3 4) < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-8 < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;2> (/ 1 2 3 4) < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0416666666666667 < 1203205507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can include VARG() subtraction and division for consistancy < 1203205523 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what's that? < 1203205559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, have you been studying the architecture of PSOX? < 1203205565 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Chicken scheme. < 1203205569 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it probably sucks. < 1203205580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, how are you in a position to comment how easy/difficult it would be to make a switcher function? < 1203205602 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was saying it hopefully, which would be correct if PSOX's architechture is sane. < 1203205618 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if you say it's difficult, that either means 'I don't know how to do it' or 'The architechture sucks so much that it's difficult' < 1203205634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a minor architecture change would make it feasible < 1203205668 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Will YOU name my tcl-alike? :P < 1203205677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lct? < 1203205688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudo-TCL? < 1203205696 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSL < 1203205698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "itrhge" < 1203205706 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS STUPID LANGUAGE < 1203205741 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pikhq might be the best choice here. :P < 1203205824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I believe you once said something about making a Haskell version of PSOX? < 1203205850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ptl. < 1203205857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Power-Tool Language. < 1203205870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after Tool-command language, and Tool-Kit, it's only fair. :p) < 1203205873 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ptl -- pronounced 'pittle'. I like that, spelled a bit awkwardly, though. < 1203205874 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. < 1203205882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptl 'petal' < 1203205882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1203205910 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the parser can be one file long. :P < 1203205920 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems reasonable to me. < 1203205922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1203205930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's syntax *is* trivial. < 1203205948 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1203205955 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of it is done by eval, anyway :P < 1203205970 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: e.g. the only thing you do with [...] is make sure it doesn't split a token < 1203205990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the {*} rule is probably the only tricky part. < 1203205996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One token into several. < 1203206030 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think with closures etc. {*} is unneeded < 1203206048 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I have irrational dislike of TCL? < 1203206053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's the difference between ptl and tcl? < 1203206058 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Not sure. pikhq has made it sound quite nice. < 1203206059 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even used it :[ < 1203206067 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good regexp support, the data type stuff actually seems useful.. < 1203206078 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw some code that adds lambda to it.. that's kind of cool < 1203206078 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as elegant as a pure lisp maybe, but sounds nice... ptl - better! < 1203206095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ptl has closures, real GC, lexical scoping, ... < 1203206103 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and everything's first class (hopefully) < 1203206118 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so I believe I can drop {*}. Correct? < 1203206129 0 :volimo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203206141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if pikhq is opposed to any [eso]projects < 1203206148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: I'm not sure if {*} is handled by closures. < 1203206160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq doesn't hate PSOX or ptl < 1203206162 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am admittedly quite fuzzy on what {*} actually does < 1203206168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you handle "+ {*}$list"? < 1203206170 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ptl is an esoproject since... when? < 1203206178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah, that's "+ with-args-of-$list"? < 1203206183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203206183 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, does it only handle lists? < 1203206186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, since it began being discussed in #esoteric ? < 1203206189 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then a *simple* version is: < 1203206191 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply + $list < 1203206197 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I might add some kind of sugar ... < 1203206199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval + $list, actually. < 1203206205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And {*} *is* the sugar. < 1203206209 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, good point... < 1203206218 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but is the sugar used often enough for it to be worthwhile? < 1203206225 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in Tcl when emulating features that ptl will already have? < 1203206228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; that's why it was added in Tcl 8.5 < 1203206254 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1203206256 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work? < 1203206261 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 < 1203206270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203206283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {*} expands a token into many tokens. < 1203206304 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eval does it, though, right? < 1203206308 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, $list wouldn't work. < 1203206320 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, does any expansion take place? < 1203206321 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1203206327 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 -> < 1203206331 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval + 1 $list 3 < 1203206341 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just evaluated directly? < 1203206357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 -> + 1 10 11 12 13 3 < 1203206388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, should I attempt to make a switching function, or are redundant functions ok? < 1203206391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.tcl.tk/17158 < 1203206396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Redundant functions.