00:01:38 -!- calamari has joined. 00:04:35 calamari, did you play with PSOX? 00:05:04 hi calamari 00:05:07 Sgeo: not yet.. but I got my wireless working.. went to a birthday party today and took a nap 00:07:18 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 00:08:16 bf is really bad at and, or, and xor, maybe add those? 00:08:55 hm, maybe 00:09:04 Good idea, actually 00:14:21 * Sgeo memos himself 00:22:10 so 00:22:23 i'm going to try and write a TURKEY BOMB program 00:22:30 since doing something useful will be nigh-on impossible 00:22:32 even hello world 00:22:33 what? 00:23:28 'proving wrong whoever it was who claimed that every Turing-complete language capable of arbitrary output has a quine; -- smjg's user page 00:23:30 is that true? 00:24:08 I don't think it's been "claimed" - rather "proved" 00:24:47 exactly 00:24:53 so how the hell can he claim to prove it wrong 00:24:55 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:25:05 -!- calamari has joined. 00:25:40 but that does not exclude the quine being devilishly hard to find, I guess 00:25:53 I think with something like a language that if it begins with " it outputs all the next characters, and if it doesn't, is a non-I/O turing complete language.. 00:26:02 Well, you have to define "Turing-complete language capable of arbitrary output" right. 00:26:33 yeah 00:26:38 we need a category for those incidentally 00:26:45 Perhaps "arbitrary output" means it has to be able to output all computable sequences, except that doesn't work either. 00:26:47 'Arbitary output at arbitary point' describes it well 00:27:02 with that + TCness, you MUST have a quine 00:27:17 How do you define "arbitrary output at an arbitrary point"? 00:27:33 http://wwwep.stewartsplace.org.uk/quines/quineless.html here is the page 00:28:43 ihope: At any point at execution, you can output an arbitary string which can include data from the program's state. 00:28:51 Brainfuck does this, my own CRTL doesn't. 00:29:00 CRTL? 00:29:29 see the esolang wiki 00:29:38 constantly rewriting term language 00:29:49 oklopol wrote a fibonacci in it: 00:29:49 (("fib"->a)->b)->b~"|"~a~b; 00:29:49 a~"|"~b->(("fib"->a)->b); 00:29:49 ("fib"->"1")->"1" 00:29:55 but it outputs as "previous|current" 00:29:59 ehird`: I don't think that works. 00:30:05 and then parses that into 'current' and 'previous' to add together 00:30:09 due to the limitation 00:30:12 ihope: Why not? 00:32:22 I assume that you mean it can run an arbitrary function taking the state and outputting a string. 00:33:49 So if it has some stuff in a register that's destroyed whenever a certain thing is done, and it's impossible to proceed with the computation without doing that thing, you can't output an arbitrary thing at an arbitrary point, yes? 00:35:23 Don't store stuff in that register? 00:35:32 ihope: you can 00:35:32 ok 00:35:33 refining 00:35:50 At any point at execution, you can output an arbitary string which can include data from the program's current, accessible state at the point of execution of the output instruction. 00:36:02 Says Wikipedia, "If F is a total recursive function then there is an index e such that phi_e = phi_F(e)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleene%27s_recursion_theorem 00:36:30 phi_e meaning the program whose source code is e, essentially. 00:36:38 ihope: use the unicode, luke 00:36:42 i have a capable font"! 00:36:52 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:36:55 ehird`, hm? 00:37:00 Sgeo: ? 00:37:01 Whatisit? 00:37:08 thefont 00:37:10 Sgeo: oh 00:37:20 just dejavu sans mono. it's not monospaced, technically, because of the >>> and similar 00:37:21 but it's fine for irc 00:37:24 Such that φ_e = φ_F(e). 00:37:37 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:37:45 Gasp, I killed him. 00:38:01 What's the underscore for? 00:38:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:38:05 Indice? 00:38:15 phi_e is phi followed by a subscript e. 00:38:23 USE MOAR UNICODE 00:38:33 Does Unicode have a subscript e? 00:38:46 Arbitary output at arbitary point: 00:38:52 I think it has a special char for subscript. 00:38:56 In a section of state where useful data can be stored, 00:38:57 Let's ask Unicode 00:39:02 at any point at execution, 00:39:14 you can output its current value. 00:39:15 Also, 00:39:18 you can output any arbitary constant value. 00:39:28 I think that's solid, if not taken 100% literally 00:39:39 "LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER E" 00:39:47 That number be 2091 00:39:55 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/ good unicode reference 00:40:03 ehird`, are you going back to your own channel? 00:40:09 Sgeo: oh 00:40:40 + and ♪ are the only things I can get this thing to get out of 2091. 00:41:03 2091 in hexa, I think. 00:41:18 Since the preceding is 208F 00:42:08 So, if you have a programming language called phi, and you have a program called F that inputs a phi program and outputs a phi program, there's a phi program that, when given to F, yields an equivalent phi program. 00:42:50 ihope: ? 00:43:08 That's what the quine theorem comes from. 00:43:16 ⦆ 00:43:32 Do you have a more specific question? 00:43:35 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2389/index.htm CIRCLED HORIZONTAL BAR WITH NOTCH 00:43:38 ⎉ 00:43:56 Oh, that's a Unicode character this client can't display? 00:43:58 The Batman symbol? 00:44:29 ⌆ awesomest charcter ever 00:44:36 :) 00:44:39 A square. 00:44:43 No 00:44:44 I require lynx! 00:44:47 It's like this: 00:44:48 = 00:44:49 ^ 00:44:59 The "equal by definition"? 00:45:05 dunno. 00:45:07 I don't think so. 00:45:09 that's =m 00:45:13 ℎello, world. 00:45:36 (Equal by definition is = with a triangle on top) 00:46:34 ℎⅇℓℓℴ 00:46:46 Classy. 00:47:34 ⊺ intercalate! 00:47:49 Reminds me of this one : http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/helloworld.html 00:48:22 ∾inverted lazy s 00:49:25 finite function ⇻ 00:49:39 flatness ⏥ 00:49:52 and of course forall: ∀ 00:49:59 What forall is that? 00:50:06 ihope: upside down A 00:50:07 I think I'm familiar with a different one. 00:50:19 ooh, i never knew the fourier transform had such a fancy symbol: ℱ 00:50:24 LATIN LETTER INVERTED CAPITAL A or something? 00:50:34 is there a unicode symbol for := ? 00:50:45 There's also one called UNIVERSAL QUANTIFIER or something. 00:51:17 Well, I only know of two forall, and one of them isn't a special char 00:51:29 It used to be (x) for "for all x" 00:51:33 aha 00:51:34 COLON EQUALS 00:51:36 Oh, it's actually called FOR ALL, and is this: ∀ 00:51:52 ...your character looked different when I looked at it before. 00:52:11 ℱ(x)≔... 00:52:13 hm 00:52:15 As well as your Fourier transform one. My client is bewootched or something. 00:52:25 there is a unicode char for the fancy x isn't there? 00:52:56 heh 00:52:57 there's ⒳ 00:53:00 x in parentheses 00:53:01 And I think you mean ℱ(x)≔…. :-P 00:53:05 but i thik that's not what you should use it for :p 00:53:08 ihope: heh 00:53:44 So ℱ⒳≔…, to be completely compliant. :-P 00:53:58 ihope: (x) isn't intended for functions, though, i think 00:54:00 the x would be curly. 00:54:05 so i think 00:54:12 Αnd if you like different Unicode characters that look exactly the same, there's one for you. 00:54:18 ℱ(???)≔… 00:54:20 fill in ??? 00:54:22 :P 00:54:33 That's not an A at the beginning of that sentence but a capital alpha. 00:54:55 I wonder if Unicode actually states that those characters are to be displayed the same way. 00:55:43 ihope: you know what x i mean? I mean what tex renders for 'x' 00:56:31 ƒ(x)≔x 00:56:33 identity function! 00:56:39 Yeah. 00:56:46 hmm 00:56:49 what to terminate functions with :) 00:56:52 ooh, off-by-side rule! 00:58:35 urgh 00:58:39 off-by-side rule doesn't work 00:58:40 no alignment 00:59:56 ƒ(x)≔1 when x=1, x * ƒ(x-1) otherwise 00:59:57 off-by-side rule? 01:00:07 but there's probably a specific unicode char to half that length :P 01:00:13 Sgeo: if they line up, same block. 01:00:15 haskell uses it. 01:00:22 python uses a retarded version without the alignment part. 01:00:35 .. 01:00:54 what 01:01:36 ¡pʃɹoʍ 'oʃʃǝH 01:01:48 YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG 01:01:56 HEH: 01:01:57 ǝsıʍɹǝɥʇo (1-x)ƒ * x '1=x uǝɥʍ 1≔(x)ƒ 01:03:00 Are you using some sort of service to do that for you? 01:03:41 There's some website with an inverting thing IIRC 01:03:41 yes 01:03:46 nit that one 01:03:50 its better :P 01:03:53 ? 01:04:46 fileformat.info 01:06:09 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:07:58 Why is that better than http://www.revfad.com/flip.html ? 01:09:25 ˙˙ʇdıɹɔsɐʌɐɾ ǝldɯıs puɐ ǝɔıu s,ʇı ʇsɐǝl ʇɐ ʇnq 'pɐɟʌǝɹ ɥʇıʍ ʞɹoʍ oʇ ɯǝǝs ʇ,uop slɐɔʇıdɐɔ 01:09:58 it uses a 40 way if statement to start with. 01:10:03 and doesn't handle uppercase and most punctuation 01:10:06 and its j and i suck 01:10:56 ˙ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ɹoɟ sʇunoɔ ʇɐɥʇ ɟı 'ǝsn oʇ ɹǝısɐǝ s,ʇı 01:11:52 Stop it plz 01:12:07 no 01:12:16 Sgeo: input text, click 'BOOM' 01:12:17 I meant, Sgeo. 01:12:17 done 01:16:24 hmm 01:20:53 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:21:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:28:30 hrm 01:33:10 silly idea- 01:33:14 possibly esoteric too.. 01:33:28 a website that gets a URI, and gives you loads of links people added to it 01:33:38 which can be URIs themselves, or URLs or text or images or whatever 01:36:04 comments? 01:38:42 none? :P 01:39:09 i can has fermentation! 01:40:57 No u cannot >:| 01:41:16 wasn't a question, bitch 01:42:29 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer"). 02:57:18 -!- slereah__ has joined. 02:59:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:01:11 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:23:00 -!- danopia has changed nick to danopia`cat. 03:25:34 -!- danopia`cat has changed nick to danopia. 03:26:30 -!- danopia has changed nick to danopia`lol. 03:26:35 -!- danopia`lol has changed nick to danopia. 03:28:33 -!- danopia has changed nick to danopia`cat. 04:07:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:07:39 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:13:33 -!- sarehu has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:14:12 -!- sarehu has joined. 04:15:39 -!- sarehu has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:16:06 -!- sarehu has joined. 04:32:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:07:44 pikhq: did you ever see the third and fourth pages I did for the "axon" series? 05:08:33 No. 05:08:35 Nor can I. 05:08:48 I managed to fuck up my root partition. 05:08:49 :( 05:09:09 ATM, I'm reinstalling Gentoo. 05:14:36 dang 05:16:24 pvcreate is a *bad* idea on one's root partition. 05:24:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:25:15 What's pvcreate? 05:25:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:35:00 It makes a partition into a physical volume for LVM. 06:15:53 -!- Figs has joined. 06:16:37 The weirdest thing on the internet: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ffDPTKn7HiY&type=1 06:16:43 (semi-nsfw) 06:17:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:53:26 -!- danopia`school has joined. 06:53:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:53:57 -!- pikhq has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:53:58 -!- danopia`cat has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:53:58 -!- cherez has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:55:15 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:55:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:00:03 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:20:58 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:36:59 -!- Figs has left (?). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:35:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:02:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:23:08 -!- sarehu has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:23:17 -!- sarehu has joined. 10:33:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 10:44:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:27:41 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:01:24 -!- jix has joined. 13:02:17 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:16:24 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:53:28 -!- olsner has joined. 15:04:49 -!- sarehu has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:05:14 -!- sarehu has joined. 15:14:04 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:14:37 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:01:58 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:01:58 -!- timotiis has joined. 16:03:23 -!- danopia`school has changed nick to danopia. 16:26:46 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:30:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:30:33 -!- RedDak has joined. 16:43:08 -!- SimonRC has joined. 16:43:42 Hi SimonRC 16:43:49 Did you poke around with the alpha at all? 17:31:57 * Sgeo pokes pikhq and SimonRC 17:32:03 and oklopol 17:33:46 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:34:48 groooo groooo 17:39:35 ? 17:39:48 groooo groooo 17:40:22 What's groooo groooo? 17:42:52 a grooo is a groooo is a grooooo 17:43:20 * Sgeo wants opinions on the alpha of PSOX 17:46:34 Does anyone even CARE? 17:46:55 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:46:59 -!- SimonRC has joined. 17:47:14 re SimonRC 17:50:54 Sgeo: too tired to think or care about anything 17:51:04 may i interest you in some random onomatopoeia? 17:51:13 BLOAAARGRGH 18:06:24 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:20:27 5+4/2 18:21:34 Does anyone even CARE? <-- no 18:22:39 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:30:46 -!- Corun has joined. 18:32:48 hi# 18:34:22 that "flipper" doesn't handle ^ properly 18:35:44 "flipper"? 18:37:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ozone is this turing complete even with finite stacks? 18:37:12 i think yes 18:38:13 Is no one going to play with PSOX? 18:40:30 Sgeo: no 18:46:52 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:48:17 Not yet. 18:56:06 I'm currently reinstalling Gentoo, so I've not hadd much of an opportunity to. 19:04:42 hee, ruby: 19:04:46 elsif s[0][/[0-9]/] 19:04:58 i love the str[regexp] strick 19:05:00 *trick 19:07:20 hm 19:07:22 is Set in here 19:22:02 HTF does that work anyway? 19:22:57 is it a wart or is there some really clever logic behind it? 19:23:16 SimonRC: nope 19:23:19 it's very simple 19:23:24 str[regexp] => match 19:23:39 specifically, the whole part that matched 19:23:44 and, of course, nil if no match 19:24:00 but you can specify which component you want: 19:24:02 If a Regexp is supplied, the matching portion of str is returned. If a numeric parameter follows the regular expression, that component of the MatchData is returned instead. 19:24:17 you can also pass it a string, to find out if the string contains that substring 19:24:18 http://ruby-doc.org/core/classes/String.html 19:24:24 so, only slightly a wart 19:24:32 str[...] is pretty damn overloaded in ruby, but it's really useful 19:24:40 because all the operations you can do with it are really cool 19:24:45 SimonRC: you can even do this: 19:24:47 str[regexp] = foo 19:24:57 fun 19:25:03 it DWYM? 19:25:27 irb(main):001:0> str="abc0asd222di" 19:25:27 => "abc0asd222di" 19:25:27 irb(main):002:0> str[/[0-9]/] = "banana" 19:25:27 => "banana" 19:25:27 irb(main):003:0> str 19:25:28 => "abcbananaasd222di" 19:25:30 so, kind of 19:25:35 :-P 19:25:39 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 19:25:43 but that is consistant with what str[regexp] does, of course. 19:25:52 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 19:26:01 irb(main):006:0> "abc0asd222di"[/[0-9]/] 19:26:01 => "0" 19:26:06 since, of course, it stops matching after that 19:26:32 so it might be a wart, but it's one of those nice, elegant warts ;) 19:26:55 strings are mutable? ew 19:27:20 SimonRC: um, yeah 19:27:30 just like scheme, or any lisp 19:27:30 it has symbols, though 19:27:36 (You can tell it was originally a lisp derivative can't you) 19:27:58 yeah 19:28:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:28:05 are there macros? 19:28:10 SimonRC: strings are just treated as arrays of bytes (although they're not really arrays, so you can do clever, stringy stuff with them). 'byte' is changing to 'unicode character' in 1.9 :P 19:28:22 SimonRC: no, it's pretty syntaxful and macros would make the language horribly undecidable 19:28:24 * SimonRC might end up a macrophile given the cahnce 19:28:28 however, you can do something like this 19:28:37 abc {...stuff...} 19:28:38 and even 19:28:41 abc do ...stuff... end 19:28:43 and even 19:28:44 I have sen that 19:28:48 abc do |arg,arg2| ...stuff.... end 19:28:48 *seen 19:29:04 which basically amounts to having macros, you can do control structures with them 19:29:14 there's even nice syntax for calling the block: 19:29:29 def returning(x); yield x; x; end 19:29:51 returning(MyClass.new) {|x| x.foo = "bar"} #=> a MyClass, but with .foo = "bar" 19:30:07 SimonRC: kind of hard to explain elegantly, over IRC :) 19:30:34 SimonRC: Here's what describes ruby pretty well, from its creator: http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/179642 19:31:55 by the way, if your ruby experience is from rails forget that crap 19:32:18 it is filled with evil (or should i say eval?) metamagic stuff and is pretty badly designed too 19:33:15 -!- timotiis has joined. 19:33:26 I know enought about it to understand the example 19:33:33 :) 19:33:49 it might not be the cleanest, purest language out there but it's better than a lot of the competition, i'd say 19:34:05 and it has a big dev+user base, so a lot of people will be able to run your apps trivially 19:34:11 + it has really good gui bindings etc 19:34:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:35:01 it also has a reputation for being excruciatingly slow 19:35:39 SimonRC: that's all fixed in 1.9 19:35:44 which uses a VM called YARV (yet another ruby vm) 19:35:49 which is blazing fast 19:35:52 well not blazing fast. 19:35:54 cool 19:36:02 fazing blast? 19:36:03 but about equal to python in most cases, and exceeding it in quite a few 19:36:06 and python's not too bad 19:36:10 indeed 19:36:16 plus there's the old 'well, plug out into c when you need speed' 19:36:23 but it applies more, 'cause ruby's C interface is great :) 19:36:27 especially with Inline::C 19:36:30 you do: 19:36:57 inline do |builder| 19:36:57 builder.c " 19:36:57 long factorial_c(int max) { 19:36:58 int i=max, result=1; 19:37:00 while (i >= 2) { result *= i--; } 19:37:02 return result; 19:37:04 }" 19:37:06 end 19:37:08 errr 19:37:10 didn't realise the example was so big!! 19:37:12 but, SimonRC: it does all the type conversions for you, there 19:39:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:39:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:39:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:40:26 Hi oerjan 19:40:31 Interested in PSOX at all? 19:40:31 hi sgeo 19:40:35 -!- slereah__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:40:47 not particularly at this time 19:41:01 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:41:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:41:50 -!- ehird` has joined. 19:42:02 * ehird` looks at logs, see what he missed 19:42:10 ehird`: that is very very nice FFI 19:42:15 SimonRC: yes, yes it is 19:42:16 :) 19:42:46 made by a very clever ruby hacker.. he has an attitude though :P 19:42:53 the guy also made Ruby2C 19:42:56 "attitude"? 19:42:59 which is basically a ruby->c compiler, written in ruby 19:43:05 and then he wrote Inline::Ruby with it XD 19:43:11 SimonRC: short fuse. 19:44:26 SimonRC: IMO one of the nice things about ruby is how oop/non-oop can mix 19:44:31 most languages let you choose, sure 19:44:39 but often the interaction between the two isn't pleasant 19:48:24 C++? 19:48:25 :-) 19:48:41 hehe, i hope that was an example to prove my point 19:48:41 :) 19:53:59 * SimonRC wonders where the User Friendly books are (at). 19:54:16 I used to love one of the User Friendly books 19:54:33 I gave it to a friend, who lost it, forcing me to find UF online 19:54:53 bah, UF 19:54:59 funny for about the first few years. 19:55:05 * Sgeo hasn't been reading it much lately 19:55:09 then extremely sporadically funny after that. 19:55:13 not worth it 19:55:14 one a couple fo dozen I read 19:55:26 If you want consistantly funny, try Doctor Fun 19:55:33 the "first" webcomic 19:55:34 Have the organization of storylines in the archives been updated anytime in the past few years? 19:55:51 DF is like the far side without the incomprehensible ones 19:56:18 The Far Side? 19:56:28 http://www.pixelcomic.net/ <-- this is pretty funny 19:56:37 Have there been any 1/0-like comics lately? 19:56:50 because someone posted a few ones on a forum i go to and someone commented that it sounds like something i would right 19:56:55 and i thought the very same thing :| 19:58:24 also, the GUest strips in the forums of Spamusement are good 20:12:53 I wonder 20:13:05 MiniMAX is basically the shortest-machine-code-interp thing 20:13:09 but what about shortest-c-program? 20:13:14 you wonder what? 20:13:18 i hope pointer arithmetic is involved 20:13:18 err 20:13:21 shortest-c-interpreter 20:13:21 :) 20:13:30 language for which the c interpreter is very short, like miniMAX 20:22:07 http://www.naerian.miraco.pl/nbf/nbf-1.6.c only 5k tape? lmao 20:22:35 http://pixelcomic.net/257.shtml 20:24:01 :) 20:24:50 Shortest C program? 20:25:17 pikhq: no. 20:25:17 touch shortest_c_program.c 20:25:19 shortest c interpreter. 20:25:21 damnit 20:25:22 Oh. 20:25:23 i typo'd 20:25:26 and acknowledged that after that 20:25:27 :| 20:25:30 GregorR: http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/libbf/libbf_c_to_bf.c?root=libbf&view=markup 20:27:04 Sgeo: try the first few 20:27:49 CODE SO DENSE 20:27:52 CAN'T READ 20:28:39 GregorR: it's not very readable, but it IS another c->bf 20:28:45 you should look at it or something :P 20:28:57 it doesn't even use a parser generator ;o 20:32:54 GregorR: actually, the interps look pretty good too 20:33:06 it has an optimizer which does maths ops and stuff, and a native code generator 20:33:09 and even supports 128bit 20:33:16 you should so merge it with egobf 20:33:40 GregorR: omg, take a look at test/test.c 20:33:45 that's some awesome coverage.. 20:34:38 omg 20:34:42 it produces one line output for that 20:34:47 487467 chars 20:34:50 8-| 20:36:05 haha 20:36:09 i then told it to optimize and convert to c 20:36:14 and we get the worst C->C compiler ever: 20:36:23 9569 lines. 20:36:52 and i'm trying to paste it somewhere but they odn't like it 20:37:59 GregorR: from http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/libbf/test/test.c?root=libbf&view=markup to http://rafb.net/p/bE1pEc11.html 20:38:13 c->bf, then bf->optimized-c 20:38:43 i wrote a bf->c compiler once 20:38:45 it was hard. 20:40:00 bsmntbombdood: you don't say 20:40:06 but imagine scheme->bf. 20:40:31 well, minimal scheme 20:40:32 :) 20:40:34 without bignums 20:40:38 or continuations, i'll bet :P 20:40:40 hmmm 20:40:55 you might have to do CPS transformation 20:40:58 so maybe continuations 20:41:05 GregorR: c2bf converts all calls to CPS right? 20:41:06 that is 20:41:42 a(b(c(),d())); -> c({x -> d({y -> b(x,y,{z -> a(z)})});}); 20:41:43 CPS? 20:41:44 err, kind of 20:41:47 Sgeo: continuation passing style 20:41:50 in scheme syntax: 20:42:23 (a (b (c) (d))) -> (c (lambda (x) (d (lambda (y) (b x y (lambda (z) (a z)))))) 20:42:25 you see? 20:42:28 all calls become tail-calls 20:42:40 and you pass 'what next' (the CONTINUATION) as a final argument, as a function 20:42:45 taking the result as the argument 20:43:21 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 20:47:45 hmm 20:47:48 scheme->bf would be hell 20:47:52 youd' have to do all sorts of management 20:49:07 hm 20:49:12 a good start: what is a pair? :P 20:50:46 -!- calamari has joined. 20:53:09 calamari, play with PSOX at all? 20:53:19 I looked at it 20:53:29 I think I made a comment about it needing and/or/xor 20:53:35 Riright 20:54:07 It will, but I do need a way of just writing down what each function does, then later putting stuff in like function numbers and types used 20:54:18 i love psox's overengineering 20:54:20 TYPES! 20:54:39 I'd certainly put and/or/xor near the beginning of domain4 20:54:39 brb 20:56:38 domain4! 20:58:27 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]"). 20:58:32 back 20:58:44 Why "domain4!"? 21:00:06 Something wrong with domain4? 21:00:15 * Sgeo has a strong feeling of deja vu 21:01:15 * oklopol has a strong feeling of GRYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 21:01:30 it's much stronger than your petty deja vu 21:02:57 http://pixelcomic.net/016.shtml 21:02:57 I wonder if I should attempt to make my own solution for taking a file with 1line/function and making it something usable as a domain spec 21:03:09 at least it is not one of the three words that end in -gry. 21:10:03 http://catb.org/jargon/html/N/nugry.html 21:10:28 (the trick answer being "language") 21:11:51 There was an xkcd comic about that 21:12:10 where> 21:13:03 ah yes 21:13:13 http://xkcd.com/169/ 21:18:57 that's a real feel-good comic 21:19:21 makes you go "har har, right back at you!" 21:23:04 * SimonRC goes 21:34:20 latest xkcd is great 21:34:24 esp. alt-text 21:40:21 -!- Corun has joined. 21:45:44 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:48:35 hm 21:48:41 golfscript is just too verbose 21:48:43 "Hello, world!" 21:48:44 i mean come on 21:48:49 you don't need that ending quote 21:48:51 you should be able to do 21:48:54 "Hello, world! 21:54:34 Too verbose. 21:54:39 We need a function for Hello world! 21:55:22 Will Unikitten include many unecessary functions? 21:56:13 only unicessary ones 21:56:58 Slereah: no, but very specific ones, sure 21:57:06 the UniKitten will look something like this: 21:58:20 ?“Hello, world!” 21:58:26 (opening and close quotes) 21:58:30 fill in ? as a print character. 21:59:48 ⌑“Hello, world!” 21:59:50 heh 22:00:04 hm 22:00:06 ⊕“Hello, world!” 22:00:10 oh 22:00:13 this will be concatentation: 22:00:23 Is that a little plane? 22:00:29 no 22:00:38 A cross in a circle? 22:00:41 yes 22:00:42 “Hello, ”⧺“world!” 22:00:48 ^ it's haskell's ++, in unicode :P 22:01:00 Why a cross in a circle? 22:01:40 beats me 22:01:58 Also, why quotation marks? 22:02:01 it's 'adding' to the output, but it's in the console, so it's "boxed in" because you can't see it directly from the program? 22:02:04 Wan't we do moar contrived? 22:02:08 Slereah: no 22:02:14 think about it, you can do this: 22:02:28 “Abc "def “ghi” 22:02:30 that's all one string 22:02:32 when printed: 22:02:40 Abc "def “ghi 22:02:41 you see? 22:02:54 the only char you need to escape is ”. if you have just "abc" in your quote it doesn't need escaping 22:02:55 *PONGehird` 22:02:57 Slereah: they're smart quotes 22:02:59 `` .. '' 22:03:05 danopia: did i ever ping you? 22:03:27 Well, there'ws "symbol for start of text" and end of text. 22:03:39 Slereah: show them 22:04:09 http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2400.pdf 22:04:15 copypaste 22:05:39 I can't. It apparently won't copy text to clipboard. 22:05:56 Either my PDF reader sucks or it's some copyright protection 22:20:43 My son's intuition was that "=" should be used to test equality, and assignment shouldn't have any symbol at all. <-- haha 22:20:56 i guess "var 5" wouldn't be too bad :P 22:22:11 Well, what we could do is use the substitution symbol for variable assignation. 22:22:25 := 22:22:26 Or something 22:23:13 assignment is brutal. use a lightning stroke symbol. 22:23:45 Shouldn't we keep that for the deathray function? 22:24:10 x `ZOMG ASSIGNMENT` 7 22:25:55 Slereah: 'shouldn't have any symbol at all' 22:25:56 Use the interrobang for assignment. 22:26:10 no, that would be the basilisk eye. 22:26:37 And for printing? Use the Chinese character for 'to write'. 22:26:57 Who speaks mandarin! 22:27:07 Slereah: I don't; just Japanese. 22:27:17 And my IME is borken, so I can't type out the appropriate character. 22:28:34 ? 22:30:15 pikhq: when i found out about IME i was so upset 22:30:17 Also, will Unikitten be able to output unicode? 22:30:23 i thought the japanese had huge keyboards with every kanji on them 22:30:25 :D 22:30:35 spanning whole rooms! 22:30:54 Slereah: No, we don't want to spend even one day on character sets! (PG parody.) Yes, of course it will. 22:31:53 So I guess there will have to be at least one escape char. 22:33:45 Slereah: yeah. 22:33:59 By the way, unikitten will take an awful long time to spec and impl :P 22:34:03 it's bigger than INTERCAL! 22:34:29 Obviously, it needs to include a mapping of INTERCAL. 22:34:40 pikhq: Bah, trivial. 22:34:47 An INTERCAL interp would be, what? 30 lines? 22:34:51 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/241b/index.htm our esc char! 22:34:55 Not an interp. 22:34:58 A mapping. 22:34:58 ␛ 22:35:04 pikhq: well, compiler then 22:35:13 :D 22:35:30 ideally, it should include every other esolang as a subset... 22:35:39 It has the space. 22:35:46 ⎋ 22:35:50 pikhq: ? 22:35:57 (you could even use the unallocated chars for some of the esolangs) 22:36:01 oerjan: there aren't that many esolangs. certainly less than 100,000 22:36:01 Also, who needs quotes! http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2402/index.htm 22:36:01 :P 22:36:02 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2403/index.htm 22:36:08 but <>+-,.[]? nah. 22:36:22 Slereah: that's for WHOLE text 22:36:39 we could use a real escape for our escape. 22:36:42 Well, it doesn't have to be exactly the same meaning! 22:37:02 Unless you've got other plans for this. 22:37:52 Slereah: Well, we should be correct as much as possible :P 23:09:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:09:34 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:17:16 pikhq: Advocate Tcl to me. I have a feeling I'm just not seeing what's good about it. 23:21:50 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 23:22:09 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:24:57 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:27:31 (Hm. overloading == as definiton: genius or evil?)