00:06:25 -!- slereah__ has joined. 00:06:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:13:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_integrator 00:13:12 :D 00:21:55 <3 GLOBAL-LET 00:22:21 it is the solution to all global variable redefinition messiness and thread safe global variable redefinition hell! 00:23:13 (global-let ((g1 v1) ...) body...) just like a let, but the variables are globals, redefined only in that body (that thread, form, etc) 00:24:46 it also lets you implement dynamic scoping, amusingly 00:25:09 (define x 2) (define (g) x) (define (f) (global-let ((x 3)) (g)) 00:25:13 (f) ===> 3 00:26:30 actually, if you replace all lets with global-lets, you get dynamic scoping 00:26:36 a better name is perhaps dynlet 00:31:51 -!- helios_ has quit ("Leaving"). 00:46:39 Hm. What if I wrote my own awesome EsCo? 00:49:33 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer"). 00:50:02 -!- Tritonio__ has joined. 00:50:13 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:09:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:23:31 -!- jix has joined. 01:23:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 02:10:14 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:21:50 -!- immibis has joined. 02:36:55 SUPER DANCE EXPLOSION TIME 02:37:13 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 03:46:42 -!- immibis has quit ("my client's gone silly and i am restarting it."). 03:47:09 -!- immibis has joined. 03:53:39 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to). 03:53:58 -!- immibis has joined. 04:18:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:18:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 04:45:11 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:21:35 -!- calamari has joined. 05:43:15 -!- immibis has joined. 06:35:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:55:47 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:07:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("You enabled the bomb, arsehole."). 09:16:12 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:19:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:26:51 -!- helios24 has joined. 11:45:19 -!- Corun has joined. 12:13:18 -!- Insane has joined. 12:13:25 Does the BF bot in here have a console? 12:13:29 !bf +++++++. 12:13:48 !bf +++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 12:13:51 • 12:13:54 :D 12:14:01 That beeps on consoles 12:14:01 heh 12:14:14 but mine gives [7] instead of nothing 12:14:15 :P 12:14:50 !bf ++++++++++.++++++++++.-------.++++++++++. 12:14:55 Hrm 12:14:59 interesting 12:15:21 !bf +++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 12:15:23 0 12:15:44 !bf +[] 12:15:56 .. 12:16:24 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.] 12:16:30 :( 12:16:36 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[. 12:16:39 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 12:16:41 0 12:16:43 Hmm 12:16:45 No debugging? 12:16:50 *debugging error messages 12:17:16 like "unmatched [" or "infinite loop: stack overflow" 12:23:11 -!- faxathisia has joined. 12:33:10 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 12:34:08 Hi EgoBot.. 12:41:50 -!- jix has joined. 12:42:20 -!- Insane has quit ("Have a nice day!"). 12:49:07 -!- helios24 has quit ("Leaving"). 13:05:07 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 13:14:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:22:55 -!- helios24 has joined. 13:27:18 Hi. 13:27:56 Hi 15:04:47 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:17:44 -!- timotiis has joined. 15:23:15 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:11:30 (decl map (-> (-> a b) (a) (b))) 16:11:35 haskellisp! 16:13:24 hm 16:13:27 maybe 16:13:35 (decl ...),in the definition 16:28:35 Wel, I hope the Wine thingy works. 16:33:29 "Insufficient privileges". 16:33:34 How do I gain moar? 16:34:02 sudo 16:34:35 It's not in the console, it's in, Wine. 16:34:49 run for president 16:35:26 Well, I can't wait 5 years to play! 16:37:51 slereah__: sudo wine foo 16:37:59 (note;evil) 16:41:52 I'm okay wioth evil. 16:44:46 slereah@Vixem:~$ sudo wine c:\\Program\ Files\\Nobilis\\Hard\ to\ be\ a\ God\\AWE.exe" 16:44:55 Still insufficient. 16:47:30 Hm. Wait, is it a windows error or a Linux error? 16:57:32 windoze 16:58:06 Shit. 16:58:35 I guess it's time for sum dual booting. 17:01:12 http://apcmag.com/system/files/images/linux-to-linux-and-xp.body-thumbnail.png 17:01:16 Love the sound of this. 17:06:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:06:53 hello ehird` 17:07:33 hi 17:08:03 sorry I haven't been online recently 17:08:06 I was busy in RL 17:09:00 how is the Underload compiler getting on? 17:09:09 you only have the Scheme version on your website 17:09:56 ais523: i'm not on my main machine right now so i don't have the dev version 17:09:57 but, soon 17:10:02 aha 17:11:33 TINEBT (This is not Emacs, but TINEBT) 17:12:05 SNUSP's acronym works along similar lines 17:12:52 actually, i'm going to make it a strictly-evaluated, pointer using recursive acronym 17:12:55 the name is TINE 17:12:56 and you say: 17:13:07 This is not Emacs (but TINE) 17:13:15 where the pointer to (but TINE) is implicit in the TINE name 17:14:19 to get round the fact that recursive acronyms otherwise have to be lazy? 17:14:29 or at least have a termination condition? 17:15:18 yes 17:15:36 you have to go further than that 17:15:42 make a recursive acronym that's capable of segfaulting 17:16:42 XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but a copy of the expansion of X 17:18:09 better 17:18:14 you must make this into an esolang now 17:18:35 how do we get the emacs relation though 17:18:41 I like the way you managed to keep it pronounceable, though 17:18:51 and Emacs isn't a recursive acronym anyway AFAIR 17:19:01 'zine bach ee ox' 17:19:10 ais523: but i mean in the esolang. 17:19:19 maybe it's based on the expansion of acronyms in a 'source' 17:19:31 lazy, so: 17:19:39 TIARA=TIARA is a recursive acronym 17:19:40 works 17:19:41 but 17:19:50 its grammar would look like English; sort of like COBOL 17:20:01 except that it's string-rewriting and you refer to other commands with acronyms 17:20:01 XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX 17:20:10 where ^ is the 'force' operator, which implies consing 17:20:23 then you could write "a copy of the expansion of" and it would mean something in the language 17:20:29 also, the interpreter is graphical if you run it from a terminal 17:20:31 this program: 17:20:34 XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX 17:20:36 = 17:20:37 err 17:20:37 wait 17:20:41 XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX 17:20:41 = 17:20:43 XINEBACEOX 17:20:48 ^^ that program, when run, produces this: 17:21:15 XINEBACEOX, XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX, XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX,... 17:21:21 but expanded inline using ansi codes 17:21:28 ooh ... a recursive acronym quine! 17:22:37 that would just be a one-letter recursive acronym 17:22:56 like the entry from the IAQ: "C is a recursive acronym. It stands for 'C'." 17:23:17 CITRORI - CITRORI is the result of running itself 17:23:58 ah... a declarative language 17:24:04 I haven't seen any of those since Prolog 17:25:19 why are they not more common? 17:25:38 because people haven't yet realized computers are unbelievably fast. 17:26:07 you would think that someone would have tried to create another by now 17:26:16 actually, they probably have, just I haven't heard of the result 17:26:19 eh... i'm fairly sure there are others 17:26:33 and we don't seem to have any declarative esolangs yet 17:26:34 i've made a stub of one, for instance 17:26:43 mine was a bit eso 17:26:56 anyway, matlab is kinda declarative 17:27:04 ainnit? 17:27:12 my memory of it is that it's pure imperative 17:27:20 but maybe I use a different set of features to you 17:27:26 i've never tried it. 17:27:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 17:27:49 i was just assuming, since... well, it's math 17:28:30 a declarative language is one where you say what to do but not how 17:28:35 come to think of it, APL's a bit like that 17:28:46 hmm, not exactly. 17:28:59 apl is declarative, in a way, just like functional languages 17:29:18 but not as much as Prolog 17:29:23 yeah 17:29:39 anyways, regexps and sql are declarative 17:29:39 a proper declarative language would, in my view, solve simultaneous equations without extra language features 17:29:50 although the tc parts of sql are imperative, i guess 17:30:01 but Prolog doesn't allow infinite backtracking of reals in arithmetic expressions... 17:30:18 e.g. I can type X=Y+1, X=2*Y-3 17:30:36 you can do that in prolog? 17:30:37 that can check the solution to the simultaneous equation 17:30:38 i mean 17:30:41 the other way 17:30:42 but can't solve it if neither X nor Y are bound 17:30:51 oh, right 17:31:05 you can work around the problem by putting in infinite number generators for X and Y 17:31:14 but of course that fails because the program then takes infinite time to run 17:31:19 uncountably infinite, in fact 17:31:42 so what's really needed is some sort of clever reference scheme that allows such code to be legal and return a right answer each time 17:31:57 well, i've been thinking about adding axioms to a language 17:32:28 i mean, so that you could specify axioms using which stuff like that is resolved. 17:34:22 my original idea was to get a book with mathematical proofs, and try to get my interp to solve them as i read it :D 17:34:45 * ais523 tried that once 17:34:48 but the result was lousy 17:34:50 well, the ones that are done using purely by manipulating symbols 17:34:56 yeah, that might be 17:35:03 it tried to prove things by blind random search through the axioms and rules of inference... 17:35:17 hehe, i'd go for evolution 17:35:38 hmm 17:35:47 that's actually pretty much the same in this case 17:37:21 did you manage to prove anything? 17:39:38 well, everything it proved was true 17:39:43 but mostly obvious and useless 17:40:36 i guess you need to give it a prod to the right direction 17:41:27 anyway, i think i'll try that today 17:51:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:05:40 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:07:20 -!- Hiato has joined. 18:08:12 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:21:39 -!- slereah__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:22:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:30:43 HI 18:30:53 HELLO 18:32:23 so oklopol 18:32:27 ist thous alivest 18:32:40 hello 18:33:35 ais523, too i guess 18:33:43 yes, I'm alive 18:33:48 i think... 18:34:22 heh :) 18:34:26 oklopol appears not to be 18:34:29 maybe i need an 18:34:30 OKLOPING 18:35:23 * ais523 is usually alive when online 18:35:38 because I actually turn my computer off when I'm not using it... 18:36:11 oklopol doesn't! 18:36:13 oklopol: okloping 18:38:48 do you ever try to ping people on IRC using /ping? 18:38:51 * ais523 tries 18:39:07 when I'm pinged it shows up at my end 18:39:39 but presumably doesn't set off the FLASH EVERYTHING alert 18:40:40 ais523: oklopol's client sucks 18:41:10 well, even mine had beep-when-someone-says-your-nick support off by default 18:41:22 although I now have an alternative I like better 18:41:54 if i'm invited somewhere, Konversation says "XXX invited you to a channel" 18:42:03 HEY THX FOR THE INFO! :)) 18:42:25 (and it doesn't open the channel or anything) 18:42:31 anyway, pong 18:42:58 that all came 18:42:59 and indeed, i never turn off my computer, except when i have to 18:43:00 at once. 18:43:02 ;| 18:43:17 hey, you can send any sort of ctcp request to anyone 18:44:08 oklopol: that's #tmpchatwithais523oklopol 18:45:51 -!- ais523 has quit ("looking for another connection..."). 18:54:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:57:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:33:19 oklopol: how would you expect Konversation to behave? 19:33:37 lament: perhaps telling him what the channel is 19:33:55 What's going on? 19:34:30 oh 19:34:39 * ais523 was having a furious argument about Lisp with ehird` in another channel 19:34:58 hardly a furious argument 19:35:18 maybe not 19:44:51 so i'm thinking of writing an organizer-life application with emphasis on long-term stability and lack of bitrot 19:45:00 err 19:45:03 *organizer-like 19:45:41 with the idea that 50 years from now it would work just as well as today, and compile and install very easily. 19:45:58 lament: paul graham wants to give you money 19:46:28 if you write it in arc (THE HUNDRED YEARS LANGUAGE REMEMBER) using its ASCII and support it will be a working webapp in 100 years 19:46:59 i haven't heard of arc 19:47:08 * lament researches 19:48:22 lament: it's a laughable dialect of lisp 19:48:25 okay, it seems pretty clear that arc will not pass the "easy installation" requirement 19:48:34 6 years in development, and we get a 1000 line of scheme 19:48:36 compiler. 19:48:38 since it will most likely be completely lost 19:48:38 and it sucks. 19:48:42 and it's hilarious. 19:48:50 lament: ok, you need to upgrade your sarcasm detector 19:48:55 anyway my conclusion was that i have to program in C89 without using any external libraries. 19:48:57 but your project is infeasable 19:49:12 os' might be totally differnt in 50 years 19:49:23 C89 was designed to be portable to anything 19:49:33 ais523: was designed to be. 19:49:43 that seems to be the most important design rule of the standardisation 19:49:58 it's hard to imagine an OS architecture that a C89 compiler couldn't be written for 19:50:12 ehird`: just that out of languages i know, c89 seems the most likely one to be available on any platform within my lifetime 19:50:28 lament: to be honest i can't see a point to your project 19:50:33 ehird`: think of it this way. There's a reason header file names are limited to 5.1 characters 19:50:49 umm... not 5, maybe 6? 19:50:54 less than 8, anyway 19:51:08 i think that might be a myth. 19:54:02 string is 6 19:54:45 so is stdint 19:54:49 but that's C99 19:55:11 it seems doing IO in pure c89 is pretty painful, though. 19:55:23 snprintf is missing 19:56:01 yes, that's a serious problem 19:56:06 you have to either aim at a temporary file 19:56:10 also, many modern computing devices already don't have a terminal emulator 19:56:18 or to calculate the length in advance (which is frought with danger) 19:56:23 or to use a different function than sprintf 19:56:33 it's quite a bit of pain to get one for, say, a cellphone, i would imagine 19:56:38 as for the lack of a terminal emulator; C89 never says you have to have one 19:56:50 no, but you need to run the program somehow 19:56:52 all that it requires for a hosted implementation are stdin, stdout and sterr streams 19:57:15 which could connect to anything: files, for instance 19:57:43 i'm pretty sure trying to design a program still easily usable in 50 years is a mistake. 19:57:45 likewise, the standard stipulates that they need not actually be able to do any sending-receiving on things that aren't newline-terminated 19:57:55 Publish the file format, make it simple and human-readable, write a MODERN program to munge it. 19:58:04 In the future, if anyone cares,t hey can write a program to manipulate it. 19:59:48 i think that might be a myth. 20:00:07 I checked the draft standard, which guarantees 8.1 will be available, but no more 20:00:42 and it simply has to provide unique mappings for the filenames, so it can choose a different naming structure if it likes 20:01:05 IIRC there's some C compiler for a computer with a weird filesystem that maps the extension of the file to a subdirectory that contains the files 20:01:17 o 20:01:21 so a .c file is in a subdirectory called c and a .h file is in a subdirectory called h 20:01:41 it's a method of complying with the standard while working around a stupid filename length limit 20:08:17 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:18:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:19:15 -!- helios24 has quit ("Leaving"). 20:30:48 ehird`: you don't understand. Suppose it's a to-do list. 20:31:00 with your long-term goals 20:31:12 so have it as a simple text file 20:31:18 edited with LamentsFancy2008Program 20:31:23 way in the future, see it 20:31:30 see your text-only spec of the simple, human readable file format 20:31:37 either read the file yourself or write a simple app to do it 20:31:47 -!- ais523 has left (?). 20:31:49 sure, certainly 20:32:05 but it's nicer to have the simple app already written 20:32:19 then...that's about 50 lines of c 20:32:25 might not work in the future 20:32:28 who knows 20:33:42 but why not just write a program you can always use 20:33:51 then it needs to have a decent ui 20:34:12 it still might not run in the future. 20:34:18 also, i find 'a text editor' is good 20:34:33 a text editor is not a to-do list :) 20:34:49 a text editor is a great way to create and edit one 20:42:10 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 21:12:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:53:06 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:01:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:05:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:17:51 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:31:12 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:52:20 -!- helios24 has joined. 23:12:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:14:58 80x24 terminals are so tiny :D 23:15:29 http://vt100.net/vt100.jpeg 23:15:29 -!- helios24 has quit ("Leaving"). 23:16:09 80x24? What is that, a watch? 23:31:53 Slereah: 80x24 text 23:31:54 duh. 23:31:59 the standard for terminals 23:32:02 including terminal emulators 23:32:15 lament: in that picture sure 23:32:15 ;) 23:32:27 Yes, I suck 23:38:51 it's not really a standard for terminals 23:38:56 it's just vt100 23:39:14 which is a standard for terminal emulators :) 23:39:49 ahhhh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Asr33.jpg 23:41:18 Hello, I am number 5 23:44:25 i want a lisp machine 23:45:29 make one 23:45:42 SHAZAM! 23:46:05 they are awfully pretty, it's true 23:46:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LISP_machine.jpg 23:47:08 and the keyboard 23:47:08 <3 23:47:11 and the editor! 23:55:10 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving").