00:00:39 is that a different name for BFM? 00:00:48 That is the new name for BFM. 00:00:48 or a different project? 00:00:53 And has been since May of last year. 00:02:46 I don't have free time, I have not-doing-university-work time :) 00:35:39 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 00:36:50 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 00:51:45 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:59:56 -!- ehird` has quit. 02:10:30 -!- calamari has joined. 02:31:37 -!- dbc has joined. 02:40:28 -!- dbc has quit (Client Quit). 03:56:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has changed nick to SuperMonkey. 03:56:07 -!- SuperMonkey has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 04:16:32 I made a new comic: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1200456820-camera.png 04:24:19 hehehe 04:51:07 dunno why, but I thought it'd switched to a washing machine in the lower left pic.. haha 04:53:04 Well, a talking washing machine would make more sense. 04:54:51 Slereah: clearly 04:55:40 calamari: I can kinda see that confusion, but I figured the slow zoom-in would make it clear 04:57:35 RodgerTheGreat: yeah I wasbn't paying attention .. got it the second time thru 05:41:10 RodgerTheGreat: i've never seen one of those pictures 05:41:27 ? 05:41:41 holding up the leaning tower of pizza 05:43:06 http://img2.travelblog.org/Photos/4598/13665/f/58265-Leaning-tower-of-pisa-1.jpg 05:49:14 thanks, faxathisia 05:56:55 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:56:21 I wonder how many interpreters I could run at the same times. 06:56:40 Like an interpreter of language A ran on the interpreter of language B ran on etc 07:47:10 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 07:48:04 eigenratio! 07:57:27 Slereah, well run a brainfuck interpreter coded in brainfuck, that runs inside my brainfuck interpreter coded in bash, that runs inside bash 07:57:31 that means, 3 levels 07:59:17 I'm sure more are possible 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:16 http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/log/bashfuck/head 08:24:11 -!- AnMaster has quit (No route to host). 08:58:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("night"). 09:00:22 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:12:34 -!- slereah_ has joined. 09:12:34 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:41:20 -!- Corun has joined. 11:01:12 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 11:22:24 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:43:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:03:40 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:04:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 13:17:44 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:28:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:48:32 -!- joku has joined. 13:51:34 -!- joku has left (?). 13:52:19 -!- argoyle has joined. 14:02:56 -!- jix has joined. 14:17:03 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 14:37:54 -!- jix has joined. 15:20:02 -!- argoyle has left (?). 15:34:43 -!- timotiis has joined. 15:45:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:48:27 Mister Ais! 15:48:38 Does this work as a 2,3 machine interpreter? http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/23.py 15:49:00 ais523 is here? 15:49:01 great 15:49:11 An infinite band of 0 (white cells), input, starts at the beggining of the input in state A. 15:50:39 ehird` is here? 15:50:45 yes 15:50:46 :P 15:50:59 I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code 15:51:02 ais523: I rewrote the compiler and such. http://rafb.net/p/sJZzsI57.html 15:51:09 I managed to eliminate all but two uses of recursion 15:51:13 * ais523 goes to paste it 15:51:13 Yeah _copy is still completely recursive ofc 15:52:07 http://pastebin.ca/857315 15:52:23 all call calls in the original code now tail-recurse 15:52:31 even the ones which don't appear tail-recursive in the original code 15:52:39 so they can't cause stack overflow no matter how bad the original code is 15:52:40 crap, i should have waited before i rewrote it 15:52:40 heh 15:53:12 also the only two recursive calls I didn't change into iteration are for wrapped lists in copy and print 15:53:39 are they fixable? 15:53:41 last has a new definition, for efficiency 15:53:46 well, copy for wrapped lists is the one i care about really 15:54:03 ais523: I made last self-referencing ages ago ;) 15:54:07 it means 'garbage unless this happens to be the start of a stack element, when it points to the last element of that stack element' 15:54:18 rather than being updated all the way along an element 15:54:28 else if(o->fp()) 15:54:28 that is deep magic, i like it :D 15:55:08 return 1 means do a call at that point, return 0 means don't 15:56:02 trying to make copy work on infintely-nested wrapped lists could be problematic 15:56:24 because it's hard to see how to copy lists like (((a)(b))((c)(d))) in an iterative manner 15:57:11 * ais523 is looking at slereah_'s 2,3 interpreter 15:57:46 ais523: would it help if i gave you the source (prelude&scheme compiler) to the new version? 15:57:52 Thankies. 15:57:58 its a lot more readable than the previous one, and it means you don't have to just change one program's output 15:58:14 also ais523 with your half-hand-compiled fibs it generates 29 fibs in 10 seconds 15:58:20 IO bound, obviously 15:58:28 I'm having a hard time programming anything at all on it, since I have absolutely no ideas how to do any particular pattern. 15:58:32 ehird`: maybe a good idea if we want to work on this together 15:58:33 even 'cat' takes about 20 seconds to print it out 15:58:47 ais523: hm, have you got any version control systems? :P 15:59:52 yes, but I don't normally use them 16:00:03 might be a bit easier if we're both going to be doing stuff with it 16:00:13 I have svn installed over here 16:00:15 i personally use darcs or mercurial but you probably just have svn 16:00:17 but no server to use it with 16:00:19 heh :) 16:00:23 i have a server, how convenient 16:00:28 er, i'd have to set up svn though. 16:00:44 should only take a minute... if it doesn't then i'll just upload it somewhere :P 16:02:42 slereah_: I put one of the genuine test programs I used when constructing the proof at http://pastebin.ca/857325 16:02:52 the A indicates the initial position of the tape head 16:03:32 ais523: such elegance. 16:03:45 the metapatterns fold and weave and the digits intertwix'd. 16:04:52 the 2,3 source I pasted corresponds to the system 5 system 1,2 4,5 2,4 "" "" "" 16:12:51 -!- slereah__ has joined. 16:13:52 -!- slereah__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:14:02 -!- slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:18:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:19:02 Let's see how this computer fares now 16:19:19 does your program have any way to specify where to start? 16:20:08 Not right now. Though I was thinking of adding two symbols. 16:20:24 ^and v, to add next to the cell you want to start with, in state A or B 16:21:20 I just used A and B 16:21:35 C, as well, in some of the more advanced systems that the 2,3 Turing machine emulates 16:22:16 I'm starting to regret windows. 16:23:35 I wonder though, is it possible to produce any pattern at some point on the 2,3 machine? 16:24:25 I get the impression that it's impossible to end up on some pattern containing more than one zero. 16:24:30 Unless I input it. 16:24:43 the number of zeros is nonincreasing over more than a few steps 16:24:46 I prove that somewhere 16:25:38 Then it probably was a bad choice to use that symbol for my attempt at some sort of meaningful output. 16:27:18 The Perl scripts at the end of the proof show some possible ways to filter output 16:27:32 outputting on each 'relevant zero' is normally the best way to do it, but I've forgotten the precise definition 16:27:42 I'm only on the 3rd machine of that proof. 16:28:14 It's exam week, so I try to read some more physics-related proof. 16:28:33 only show steps on which 16:28:34 # a 0 is active and the states on the previous 3 steps haven't been B then A 16:28:34 # then A) 16:29:05 that's the definition of which steps to show copied from the Perl script 16:31:13 Wonder if I could make some hello world with that. 16:31:47 Using the 1 and 2 as binary digits, showing the translated tape every those steps. 16:39:03 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:55:46 Hi. 16:56:10 Wassup Slereah (If that was aimed at me :) ) 16:56:20 Yes indeed 16:56:23 A little late, but 16:56:41 rather late then never ;) 16:58:28 http://www.langpop.com/ : This is crazy, I never realised just how popular C was ( I really don't like it though) 16:58:43 C is really useful for things like device drivers 16:58:54 and lots of those have to be written every year 16:59:00 because of compiling to bytecode I suspect... 16:59:16 and because most OSs are written in it 16:59:25 aha, yes, true 17:00:22 it's also a good language to compile into 17:00:29 if you want portable output 17:00:40 apparently so... though there is the fabled D 17:00:40 and would otherwise be compiling into assembly 17:00:51 or C--, of course, which is even lower-level than C 17:00:53 I like assembly 17:01:07 No, that would be cruelty to humans, lower level C 17:02:39 For some reason, they teach us C here. 17:02:53 C-- is designed to be used as a sort of portable assembly. 17:03:02 hrmm... well I guess it does put you in good stead 17:03:04 It resembles C, but it is much easier to define behavior in it. 17:03:14 And so, it's easier to target. 17:03:15 Even though we're not really looking for all the fantastic advantages of C, since we just do numbers. 17:03:38 pikqh: What's the point though, there i in line assembly in C and there is HLA (High Level Assembly) 17:03:58 Did you miss the bit about being portable? 17:04:07 Slereah: That's what I like about Delphi: It's Pascal (which is goddam easy) and it's RAD 17:04:12 HLA is a macro language for x86 assembly. . . 17:04:26 Inline assembly is both nonportable *and* nonstandard. 17:04:28 pikhq: Yes, but C is portable and HLA compiles into assembly which is portable 17:04:33 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:04:42 oh 17:04:43 Hiato: Assembly? Portable? 17:04:46 I didn't know that 17:05:04 I really thought it was. Unless you moved from x86 to x86_64 17:05:16 what about 6502 assembler? 17:05:23 that's nothing like x86 assembler 17:05:25 Assembly is neither cross-OS portable nor cross-CPU portable. 17:05:41 Slereah: I didn't mean RADical :P (Just incase) I meant Rapid Application Development 17:05:46 Let's say I make a small program in x86 assembly, assuming Linux. 17:06:05 who wants to try out the current version of the underload compiler 17:06:14 That same program will not run on x86_64 Linux, or PPC Linux. Nor will it run on Windows of any sort, nor on Mac OS of any sort. . . 17:06:19 Hiato: I don't know what either of those things are, and don't know much of Delphi either 17:06:24 So no worries 17:06:38 haha, quite ironic 17:06:39 lol, sure :D 17:06:39 (It'll run on x86 BSDs, but that's because they've got a spiffy kernel feature letting them handle the Linux syscall interface. . .) 17:06:41 IT compiles to C 17:06:56 if so: 17:07:01 svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload 17:07:06 note that tailcalls are broken right now 17:07:19 in the output you can change #define TAILCALL ... to #define TAILCALL CALL to fix 17:07:52 pikhq: Surely though, TASM, NASM, FASM and co are an attempt to standardise the the Assembley syntax/language and thus make it portable 17:08:16 Hiato: um no 17:08:17 You are quite ignorant, apparently. 17:08:23 sorry ehird`: haven't got the faintest clue what underload is 17:08:25 The syntax is not what matters. . . 17:08:26 pikhq: hey, give him a break 17:08:33 The raw binary changes from CPU to CPU. 17:08:41 pikhq: calling someone ignorant just because they don't know about syscalls in ASM is stupid 17:08:43 pikhq: quite possible, I live in South Africa 17:08:43 And the syscalls change from OS to OS. 17:08:51 Hiato: think about it this way 17:08:55 Your country has nothing to do with it. . . 17:08:58 Hiato: when an asm program wants to print out some text to the screen 17:09:01 it can't do 17:09:03 PRINTOUT blah 17:09:07 because the cpu Can't Do That 17:09:08 Your lack of experience in assembly is all that's relevant. :p 17:09:11 it has to do: 17:09:21 ...put blah in a register somehow... 17:09:28 INTERRUPT 38433 17:09:33 and the OS intercepts interupt 38433 17:09:35 and uses that to print 17:09:39 but every OS does it completely differently. 17:09:48 I remember how to do Assembly, FASM that is (I wrote a little tiny OS type thingy a while ago) 17:09:54 And every CPU has different commands for putting blah in a register, and doing interrupts. 17:09:57 yes, I understand 17:10:03 ok 17:12:31 PS: pikhq: In SA, we only do computer studies in Grade 10/11/12 and we do basic stuff like PC structure, data storage databases etc.. nevermind the fact that I have only had Internet for about ~1 year now and that there are virtually no computer resources in SA.... That was why I made my statement 17:12:50 In x86, it's just "mov $string_address,%ecx;mov $string_size,%edx;mov $1,%ebx;mov write,%eax;int 0x80". . . Assuming string_address points to "Foo" and string_size is the size of that string. . . 17:13:29 In x86_64, it's something more like "push $string_address;push $string_size;push 1;push write;syscall". 17:13:31 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:13:54 alright, I get it... 17:13:58 Mmkay. 17:14:21 South Park? :P (The psychologist) 17:15:04 Isn't that a teacher? (Mmkay.) 17:15:14 Oh, yeah huh ;) 17:15:24 School counselor. 17:15:30 there we go :D 17:15:42 *shrug* 17:15:51 With his many great lessons on drugs. 17:16:09 Beats me, I only saw the one episode... 17:18:20 Hiato: Impressive that you made Full 0 in your second year with internet :P 17:18:27 Or did you use computers significantly before that? 17:28:26 -!- jix has joined. 17:37:27 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:55:30 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:01:20 -!- Hiato has joined. 18:01:35 Load shedding.... 18:02:06 But, I'm back now 18:02:11 and so is the power 18:02:13 :D 18:02:21 CAN YOU FEEL THE POWER? 18:02:36 Heh lol :D 18:02:43 http://img.lulz.net/src/1178122406441.jpg 18:02:44 :D 18:03:06 Wicked :D 18:03:27 what I meant was that Eskom (the power dudes in SA) feel the need to arbitrarily cut off certain area's power for unspecified amounts of tin 18:03:29 *time 18:03:39 without warning or schedule 18:03:49 and they call it Load Shedding.... 18:04:12 I'll give you three thousand tons of tin. 18:04:18 If you give me back my power. 18:04:31 Hrmm... you drive a hard bargain 18:04:38 three and a half thousand :P 18:04:41 and its done 18:04:53 Damn you, what am I, made of tin? 18:05:00 Do I look like the Tinman to you? 18:05:08 Well, for short... yes 18:05:15 especially through IRC 18:05:24 though it has that effect on everyone 18:12:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:14:39 hello oerjan 18:15:01 ^^ 18:15:07 meaning ditto 18:15:47 hello 18:15:52 oerjan: the life of a compiler writer is not easy 18:15:53 18:14:53 I've been tracing it two implementations simultaneously 18:15:53 18:15:01 they deviate somewhere inside either block 16 or block 1 18:15:53 18:15:04 quite early on 18:15:53 18:15:04 hardcore 18:16:16 argh 18:16:27 i mean hello 18:16:31 Hi 18:16:36 argh, oerjan 18:17:49 -!- jix has joined. 18:18:58 Why can't Kolmogorov be called Bob? 18:19:19 Or Popov, to make it Russianer. 18:20:22 technically he _could_ be called Andrey 18:20:51 Yes, but youwon't find an Andrey machine! 18:20:57 Or can you? 18:21:07 I'll make a goddamn Andrey machine! 18:21:10 * oerjan wonders what the russian diminutive is for that 18:21:16 Andrey Popov machine. 18:21:16 lament! 18:23:01 there apparently is Scott Andrey Machine 18:25:16 Heh. Esolang is the first google result for Kolmogorov Machine 18:26:05 Are the graph in computing the same as in math? 18:26:26 apparently not a very common term then... 18:26:26 The { | for some property } 18:26:47 um... 18:27:15 the word graph has several meanings 18:27:56 the graph of a function, or a graph of vertices and edges, spring to mind 18:28:29 and i believe both are used in both computing and math 18:28:40 I suppose the graph of a function qualify as that definition. 18:28:50 Since a function is just a particular type of graph. 18:29:15 Not sure what the vertices one is though 18:29:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics) 18:30:08 Why do I get gay porn with "Brainfuck" on google image? 18:30:32 rofl 18:30:41 Rather 18:31:00 why where you searching Brainfuck on Google Images anyways :D? 18:31:27 Slereah: your definition seems to be the graph of a relation 18:31:40 Well, I typed Kologo...Kogloglo...Glokok... Andrey Machine in google. 18:31:48 And then, I clicked on google image, for lulz 18:31:51 Only one result 18:31:59 Then, I tried Brainfuck 18:32:16 Well, that definition comes from the Bourbaki 18:32:16 Haha 18:32:23 So it might not be very up to date 18:32:36 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Graphe.jpg 18:32:55 well wikipedia mentions it 18:33:32 but then in set theory a relation is often identified with its graph 18:33:57 Hell, I don't even understand the difference! 18:35:50 in predicate logic a relation is usually not a set, but a more basic logical concept 18:36:05 which is the sense used in that jpg 18:36:20 er no 18:36:30 relation = proposition in that 18:37:16 you could say a proposition is a relation with no arguments i guess 18:38:12 Strange definition. 18:38:56 hm... fits with automatic currying like in haskell :D 18:39:16 I think there was some relation definition without sets in the Principia Mathematica, but I never focused beyond chapter 40. 18:40:03 "A graph or undirected graph G is an ordered pair" 18:40:08 That I like better! 18:41:42 Hell. This is distracting. 18:41:49 why can't I just study :( 18:49:56 Woot! 18:49:59 The underload->C compiler works. 18:50:07 It does tail-call optimization and all that jazz. 18:50:13 svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload 18:50:15 if you want to take a look 18:50:18 Time for celebration! 18:50:30 Get a Scheme implementation, and pipe underload.scm to a file, then compile that with gcc. 18:50:40 It should print an awful lot of colons. 18:52:08 Lolgoatse 19:01:16 can someone quickly explain Trinary (or ternary) to me, I don't understand how you convert... 19:01:29 if a number has digits edcba 19:01:38 then its value is a+b*3+c*9+d*27+e*81 19:01:51 aha 19:01:55 roger, thanks... 19:02:00 I got confused there 19:04:06 Hiato: binary 19:04:08 : 19:04:11 0,1 19:04:19 ((digit*2)+digit)*2... 19:04:42 1101 -> ((((((1*2)+1)*2)+0)*2)+1 19:04:48 with trinary it's the same but with 0,1,2 19:04:52 same with decimal: but with 0-9 19:04:57 hex: 0-9A-F 19:05:20 yeah, I got it from ais523's explanation, but thanks anyway :). 19:06:19 as the INTERCAL manual explains, ternary offers some nice options for signed numbers (e.g. balanced ternary) 19:06:29 where 2 actually means -1 19:06:44 cool 19:06:49 I'll check it out 19:07:20 http://intercal.freeshell.org 19:07:27 is the new manual 19:07:33 the old one's all over the Internet 19:07:35 awesome, thanks 19:07:59 "The tape still has characters written on it in binary, even though the program uses a different base" 19:08:15 Haha, must be fun doing binary operations in TriINTERCAL. 19:08:26 Heh, :D 19:08:27 the ternary description's in the original manual 19:09:14 "`bBASEChange base" there's the solution :P 19:42:02 oh well, I'm tired today (1st day of school again..) 19:42:03 cheers 19:42:06 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 19:49:03 after the compiler obediently spewed out a 73184 line C file, I am now attempting to compile it with -O3 19:49:08 I think it might take a few years. 19:49:42 Well, don't bother. The world's ending in 5 years, according to the most reliable crackpots. 19:51:04 5? i thought it was 4 19:51:13 2012 that is 19:52:10 but don't worry, it'll just be a verne singularity. 19:52:26 er vinge 19:52:52 also in the process computing power will grow asymptotically so compilation should certainly finish 19:53:04 assuming you upgrade regularly 19:53:29 why isn't gcc multi core!!! 19:53:33 the resulting program took me 21m56.905s to run with -O0 19:53:50 and it's only a 99bob... 19:54:00 it is compiled badly from brainfuck, though.. 19:54:08 and you had debug checks on... 19:54:16 and your - is I(n) 19:54:24 I doubt the debug checks would have made that much of a difference 19:54:29 compared to the hugely inefficient - 19:54:31 * pikhq makes Thy Dungeonman-Brainfuck Edition 19:54:42 pikhq: ? 19:54:48 http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Thy_Dungeonman 19:55:08 I wonder what would happen if I translated Lost Kingdoms? 19:55:15 Last summer, I wrote an engine for text-based games in Brainfuck. . . 19:55:23 You could probably get Lost Kingdom to run in it. 19:55:25 Translated to what? 19:55:30 Underload 19:55:34 Lost Kingdoms? 19:55:36 Well, the engine is in PEBBLE, but. . . 19:55:36 with some input extension, presumably 19:56:13 yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, i just had to kill gcc. 19:56:23 you won't believe what i saw just before... 19:56:29 GOD? 19:56:30 gcc did a garbage collection. 19:56:33 a GARBAGE COLLECTION!! 19:56:35 gcc!! 19:56:35 Also good. 19:57:09 darwin is having a hard time recoveirng... 19:57:21 Well, yeah. GCC has a builtin garbage collector for internal purposes. 19:57:24 ais523: I think, perhaps -O2 will be enough 19:57:26 Well, with all that creationism. 19:57:38 pikhq: Did I mention it did it because it had >over 200MB allocated a C COMPILER. 19:57:56 I've seen it. 19:58:11 Granted, that's usually on big-ass C++ compiles. 19:58:15 ais523: apparently, -O3 infinite loops under... stressful conditions. 19:58:22 :| 19:58:53 Although doing, say, Lost Kingdom->C->binary with -O2 or -O3 makes GCC hate you. 19:59:00 -O2 was quick 19:59:02 but -O3.. 19:59:04 it's not particularly stressful, though, just extensive 19:59:05 It usually gets to about 1.5GB before segfaulting if I do that. . . 19:59:28 s/segfault/malloc returns null/ 19:59:39 99bob is now reniced to -20 19:59:44 so it should ... not be terribly slow 19:59:50 oh look, "99 bottles of beer on the wall, " 20:00:08 not worth it, I think.. 20:00:30 maybe we need an /optimising/ BF to Underload compiler... 20:00:31 ais523: I think perhaps we should concentrate on other programs 20:00:38 For now. 20:00:40 likely a good idea 20:00:46 we need a big program, though.. 20:00:52 So we can, e.g. optimize it. 20:00:55 ANd get rid of memleaks. 20:01:10 ais523: I know! A prime checker. 20:01:22 Preferably, an infinite one: checks 1, then 2, then 3, ... 20:01:31 hmm... division would be quite difficult to write in Underload 20:01:36 but it is possible 20:01:40 (I've done it before) 20:02:29 maybe doing it finitely with an Erosthanes sieve would be easier 20:03:11 anyway, it's getting late, and I'd better go home 20:03:24 aw crap, now i have to test it on my own without valgrind :P 20:03:39 -!- ais523 has quit ("bye everyone!"). 20:04:30 Ooh idea 20:04:37 Convert http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/uload.b to Underload. 20:04:39 Compile it. 20:04:42 Use as underload interpreter. 20:07:40 How many memory location does an OISC interpreter need? 20:09:46 Enough. 20:10:04 kinda-esoteric challenge! 20:10:05 http://pastebin.ca/raw/857629 20:10:15 How much is enough? 20:10:21 decode that and you'll get a program which can encode and decode the same "encryption" that is put on it! 20:10:46 looks like python 20:11:15 Errr, don't do it, I broke the decoder 20:11:16 :D 20:11:17 Fixing now 20:11:22 non-obftuscated.. 20:12:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:13:03 Is it... AN UNBOUNDED AMOUNT? :o 20:13:22 If it is, that's going to be hard to implement on the Love Machine. 20:13:48 http://pastebin.ca/raw/857632 20:13:50 anything TC requires unbounded memory, you hear 20:13:51 ok: this one 20:14:09 but not necessarily by number of cells, it could be cell contents 20:14:17 Yes, that was my idea. 20:14:28 Using two tapes, and just adding 1's on them 20:14:28 damnit 20:14:29 no 20:14:31 it doesn't quite work 20:14:41 But I wondered if two was enough for OISC 20:15:42 It seems dubious to me, because if two was enough, it wouldn't need three arguments 20:15:51 doubtful, but it may be enough to have only two ever be unbounded 20:16:18 as for emulating a minsky machine 20:16:45 You could just do one instruction of zero arguments, "substract memory from other memory, and branch if" 20:17:53 But I can't find the minimal amount of memory if any on the esowiki or the regular wiki. 20:18:42 hey! who has a really short domain name? 20:19:16 I think I still have cb0.org 20:19:26 never really got round to using it. 20:20:32 hmm, who has a domain name that they are using for other things and also have ways to point urls to different ips 20:20:48 i want to put my short-URL-maker that makes them shorter than any other site i've seen up somewhere :P 20:20:58 like shortdomain/u/ 20:21:02 oh, mine expired 27 days ago 20:21:06 :P 20:21:07 haha 20:22:53 if you don't mind custom DNS, I could probably get _.x 20:22:55 :D 20:23:00 heh 20:23:36 Asztal: if you want to keep cb0.org i'd reccomend reregistering it Right Now: domain squatters will grab three-letter domains almost immediately 20:25:30 codu.org is pretty short :P 20:25:40 .coms are all gone, but there should still be a few .nets and a few thousand .orgs 20:25:43 It's not "really short" 20:26:09 vjn.fi is also quite short. 20:26:11 Asztal: few thousand: you are quite the comedian 20:26:18 http://3la.org/toc.html 20:26:22 Grab it now if you want to keep it. ;) 20:26:26 not sure how up-to-date that is 20:26:28 i actually almost made a tinyurl there 20:26:36 oklokok: my tinyurl is great 20:26:47 * pikhq should grab ワスタ・ジョウサイア.com if it's still open. :p 20:26:47 iirc for the first few ten thousand urls you get 3 characters. 20:26:49 how? 20:27:01 I probably shouldn't whois these with networksolutions, should I? 20:27:03 oklokok: i'll tell you if you host it :P 20:27:09 You could buy x.com off Yahoo for some few thousand million dollars :P 20:27:23 Just make sure not to let it expire! 20:27:25 Asztal: Don't whois. Register it; if it fails to register, the name's taken. ;) 20:28:01 Oh, I guess it's "paypal labs" now ... PayPal must have got it from Yahoo and/or been bought by Yahoo. 20:28:05 my web host give me one free registration per year, so I may as well get this one back. 20:28:14 the only "non trivial" part is i have no idea how to get virtual directories, like vjn.fi/879yf 20:28:19 Huzzah. 20:28:20 all i can think of is get. 20:28:30 ehird`: just tell it, i'm not going to steal it. 20:28:31 xn--cckdf4dnf6b9wkcug.com is not taken. 20:29:28 What's that de-punycode-ized? 20:29:45 ehird`: i haven't registered, wait a sec 20:29:49 ehird`: i haven't registered, wait a sec 20:29:52 It's my name in Japanese. 20:30:06 ワスタ・ジョウサイア.com 20:30:06 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 20:30:17 how come going to xn--cckdf4dnf6b9wkcug.com resolves to 20:30:22 My name is registered by some jerk named Greg Orr :P 20:30:22 ワスタ・ジョウサイア.com 20:30:23 Nothing. 20:30:31 faxathisia: Because that's what it is. 20:30:31 faxathisia: That's punycode. 20:30:56 Punycode is a method of encoding Unicode in 7-bit ASCII, and is used for IDN. 20:31:03 wo 20:31:04 I can't wait for internationalised TLDs. Then I can be even more confused at domain names. 20:34:46 hmm 20:34:48 using punycode 20:34:51 could you register: 20:34:55 ,[.,].com 20:36:05 True. 20:36:22 I'd recommend doing it on .org, though. 20:37:15 Actually, you don't need punycode for that. 20:37:49 I'm pretty sure domain names don't allow "[" or "]" :P 20:37:56 And punycode's base offset is above ASCII 20:38:03 So in fact you couldn't reg that. 20:38:08 imagine actually being able to register http://"egnufeb">:#,_@.info/ 20:38:30 the .info converters says so too... "The converted string ,[.,] contains characters not supported in this registry" 20:38:51 There can't be a *technical* reason for that. 20:38:55 And punycode's base offset is above ASCII 20:39:21 You can't encode those into punycode and domain names have never allowed "," and "]" 20:39:31 Also, that would have to be the subdomain ",[" under the domain ",]" 20:40:37 ok, wait 20:40:42 Oh yeah, and two-letter domain names are no longer sold. 20:40:43 there are unicode chars looking very much like [ 20:40:44 and , 20:40:51 right? 20:40:55 Probably. 20:40:56 so: find them, translate to punycode 20:40:59 register ,]-alike 20:41:00 they may be in your browser's IDN blacklist 20:41:04 add subdomain ,[-alike 20:41:10 in which case, the browser would display the punycode 20:41:57 Asztal: Oh well. Find the chars for me! :P 20:41:58 I'm lazy. 20:42:17 heh, stuff like ㎮ is in the blacklist 20:42:50 I doubt I'd be able to read that at my address bar font size.. 20:43:46 [ ] 20:43:57 U+FF3B and U+FF3D 20:44:22 i can't read these in linkinus 20:44:25 fileformat.info 20:44:28 link me to the page it has for them 20:44:38 lazy :P 20:44:41 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/ff3b/index.htm 20:44:42 damn 20:44:44 we thought the same thing 20:46:20 http://‚[‚.].org/ 20:47:04 safari collapses it :( 20:47:05 wait.. 20:47:18 ⁅ 20:47:58 ⁅⁆ 20:48:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 20:48:29 ⁅﹐.⁆ 20:48:33 http://⁅﹐.⁆.org/ 20:49:02 http://xn--nwg1758f.xn--owg.org/ 20:49:18 or the first one: 20:49:18 http://xn--fvga6742o.xn--ii7c.org/ 20:49:38 my IRC client is refusing to open these (having to copy and paste) :) 20:49:56 :D 20:50:27 http://‚[,.].org/ 20:50:30 spaced it out a bit. 20:50:54 dibs on http://xn--fvg8298f9da.xn--ii7c.org/ 20:51:27 xn--1xa.com is registered 20:51:28 :( 20:52:45 FF3B and FF3D are nice brackets 20:53:01 -!- helios24_ has quit ("leaving"). 20:53:42 -!- helios24 has joined. 20:56:45 xn--ufb0078j.com is my best ,] 20:57:48 Urk 20:57:50 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 20:57:55 Firefox disagrees on the translation of that >_O 20:58:21 what did i miss 20:58:23 also 20:58:25 what is the punycode of http://.com/ 20:58:38 It's http://www.googleityourself.com/ 20:59:58 no, it won't convert 20:59:59 so stfu 21:00:34 URIencoded it's %ef%a3%bf 21:01:22 -!- ehird` has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:01:24 -!- ehird`_ has changed nick to ehird`. 21:01:28 firefox seems to convert it to F8FF when I navigate to it :( 21:01:42 or indeed paste it at all 21:02:11 maybe it is F8FF 21:02:17 what does it display as in your fonts 21:02:24 I get xn--lzg, and it's owned. 21:02:50 GregorR: that's euro 21:02:54 the euro symbol. 21:03:19 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/f8ff/index.htm the image is funky 21:03:20 :D 21:03:23 but not what i see 21:03:25 yes, it's F8FF. It's a private use character (looks vaguely hebrew-ish in this font) 21:03:26 and yeah: it's f8ff 21:03:32 so what's that in punycode? 21:03:34 or can it not do it 21:03:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:04:10 ehird`: Like I said, Firefox told me it's xn--lzg, and that's owned. 21:04:19 it's not xn--lzg. 21:04:22 that's a euro sign 21:04:34 Then what did you type? Looks like the Euro sign to me :P 21:05:35 http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08033/f8ff931.png 21:06:00 WTF? 21:06:11 XChat is pretty well convinced that's a Euro symbol for me 8-O 21:06:36 you are both wrong! 21:08:22 You mean of course that our /clients/ are wrong. 21:09:14 a domain which looks different depending on what font you happen to like... that's pretty cool :D 21:10:06 -!- Corun has joined. 21:10:38 http://img.skitch.com/20080116-m85215j9jx89pbk5wwb8rwj8y6.jpg 21:10:39 hm 21:10:39 jpg 21:10:47 It looks like a block to me. 21:10:48 * ehird` better reconfigure that 21:11:09 Which, of course, is right if you don't have the correct font. 21:11:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EF%A3%BF 21:11:38 "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH", nice. 21:11:46 see my screenshot! 21:12:34 I'm actually a bit surprised that ithink∴iam.com is unowned. 21:15:16 * Asztal ponders reverse DNS opportunities 21:16:46 The ConScript Unicode Registry suggests it be used for the Klingon glyph "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH." 21:16:50 I approve. 21:18:17 ah yes, that's the one on fileformat.info, it seems 21:18:38 Asztal: fileformat.info uses Code2000 21:18:57 which has every single character (no, really) and also complies with the ConScript thing 21:20:03 Damn! 21:20:18 It translates the early modern English short s symbol to an 's' :( 21:20:22 (Firefox) 21:23:50 * Asztal registeres g✉.com 21:24:04 HAHAHAHA 21:24:08 That = awesome 21:25:27 so many awesome domain names like ☃.com and ☭.com are parked :( 21:26:48 -!- Corun_ has joined. 21:29:01 g a^ ae %o 21:29:04 what's good about those characters. 21:33:31 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:47:07 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:47:32 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:48:13 ais523 has been congratulated for an awfully long time :P 21:51:29 i guess someone will have to top that 21:51:56 i proved god doesn't exist 21:51:59 but that's not really as important. 21:53:09 so did Sgeo! let's put you both up! 21:53:19 Sgehird to save space 21:54:08 -!- Corun has joined. 21:54:20 when did sgeo prove that? :P 21:54:31 was there a puff of logic? 21:54:37 Asztal: hopefully 21:55:30 -!- Corun_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:56:14 -!- helios24 has quit ("Leaving"). 21:56:20 did he prove black is white for an encore, and get run over at the next zebra crossing? :P 21:57:30 personally i think there'd be a bit of a fuss before he got run over 21:57:39 everything being both 100% dark and 100% light, and all that jazz. 21:59:51 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:03:18 i think Sgeo (if it was him) did something with the fact that "god can do anything" 22:03:24 which isn't exactly hard 22:04:02 Was that in #esoteric ? 22:04:14 I'd lurve to see this amazo argument. 22:04:23 oklopol: oh, duh 22:04:26 oklopol: that's retarded. 22:04:41 nobody apart from the most fundamental, braindead idiots define god as "can do anything" 22:04:50 iirc, the most common is "god can do anything which god could logically do" 22:04:58 which /doesn't/ imply god is impossible 22:05:00 ehird`: well, a "god can't exist" argument is always retarded, if it's meant literally 22:05:11 "which god could logically do" ... 22:05:19 :D 22:05:24 Good thing that's so well-defined. 22:05:31 GregorR: it is, you're reading it wrong 22:05:34 it starts off: 22:05:40 "god can do anything that is logically possible" 22:05:44 i.e. results in no contradiction 22:05:49 That makes more sense. 22:05:50 that gets rid of: rock so heavy god can't lift it 22:05:51 BUT 22:06:01 But I feel is a subpar definition of a god. 22:06:04 you can specially formulate something that by its nature everyone but god can do 22:06:07 so you come to that definition 22:06:11 GregorR: this is ancient stuff 22:06:16 Anything which could truly be called a god is exempt from our rules of logic and reason. 22:06:25 GregorR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence 22:06:28 and that's a bullshit argument 22:06:29 :) 22:06:53 god either exists, or he doesn't, and you can scientifically calculate approximations of the probability of this. 22:06:59 (by the way, they're extremely low.) 22:06:59 "God can do anything that he does not limit himself from doing." 22:07:11 ;p 22:08:51 i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc 22:09:16 exactly because when you do, you find out that a god is incredibly unlikely. 22:09:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:09:55 but anyway this is all wrong, because the flying spaghetti monster is real 22:09:58 please ignore everything i said 22:12:29 " i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc" // I'm not confident that this is a sentence 22:13:05 that * logic 22:13:12 * = using 22:14:39 I'm quite confident that that wasn't a sentence :P 22:17:01 i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that using logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc 22:18:55 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:19:32 hello oklopol 22:19:52 thanks for the boot, ubuntu <3 ehird`: can i see calculations on the probability? 22:20:05 oklopol: of what 22:20:25 that god exist 22:20:26 s 22:21:22 [continue in /msg, this is getting offtopic here :)] 22:21:27 heh, #esoteric, offtopic. 22:21:29 :) 22:21:35 Sounds pretty esoteric to me :P 22:21:43 GregorR: nahh 22:23:04 -!- oklopol has set topic: soteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize! | Nothing's off-topic in #esoteric! :DDDD. 22:23:12 xD 22:23:24 Unless we redefine the topic. 22:23:34 * ehird` Albatross fanatics unite! 22:23:36 err 22:23:38 -!- ehird` has set topic: Albatross fanatics unite!. 22:23:44 i love how i cut the first character :D 22:24:51 UBUNTU WURVES EHIRD` 22:25:08 i don't use ubuntu 22:35:18 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:46:30 -!- immibis has joined. 22:46:50 ehird`: So you don't love it. It still loves you! 22:46:58 GregorR: start making sense 22:50:27 thanks for the boot, ubuntu <3 ehird`: can i see calculations on the probability? 22:50:48 hah 22:51:04 There should be a newline in there somewhere :P 22:53:43 -!- ehird` has changed nick to rice. 22:53:49 -!- rice has changed nick to ehird`. 22:53:57 *** rice is now known as ehird`. 22:53:58 tee hee 22:56:05 So, yesterday I was eating some curry over ehird`. 22:56:11 GregorR: sometimes i want to say two things at once to make the first one impossible to comment on 22:56:23 but indeeed 22:56:32 it sometimes looks wronglied. 22:56:34 -!- ehird` has changed nick to rice. 22:56:36 oklopol: That's a totally retarded idea CATS ARE FLUFFY 22:56:47 yeah they are :) 22:56:58 rice: awesome puppy 22:57:00 book 22:57:24 awesome, this nick is MINE! 22:57:27 I got it dropped :D 22:57:33 (i actually wrote 'puppy' instead of 'book', although i have to admit i realized it a bit before i pressed return, but had to say it anyway) 22:57:34 Wow, how? 22:57:43 GregorR: it was last used over a year ago 22:57:48 so i went into #freenode and asked 22:57:51 and a staffer said OK and did it 22:57:53 oh, i think i've seen you with that 22:57:55 -!- GregorR has changed nick to potatoes. 22:58:34 i know have a short dictionary word registered as a nick on a large IRC network 22:58:35 score! 22:59:17 * potatoes > rice 22:59:38 Ah. 22:59:45 I do too! 22:59:49 I just deleted the objdir halfway through building something, thinking it had finished but not built what I wanted 23:00:02 faxathisia: which word? 23:00:06 fax 23:00:10 heh 23:04:32 http://www.ddj.com/web-development/184416221 this person seems very bitter about ruby 23:06:13 -!- potatoes has changed nick to GregorR. 23:06:27 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b). 23:06:55 you know what would be awesome 23:07:04 if there was an irc bot controlling a music player daemon 23:07:13 http://www.musicpd.org/ 23:07:16 there is 23:08:00 used to be able to queue up songs in #test radio anyway 23:08:34 oh.. Music Player Daemon is something else.. 23:15:05 can somebody point me to an online BF string generator? 23:15:28 !bf_txtgen Foobar 23:15:59 60 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>+++++++><<<<-]>.>-..>.-.<+++. [83] 23:16:02 oh, sweet- egobot is working again 23:20:20 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 23:21:04 118 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++++++.>>++.+++++++..+++.<.>>-.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [839] 23:21:17 :/ 23:23:39 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:23:43 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:25:18 ehm. 23:25:23 #devnonsense :D 23:25:33 Huh? 23:25:34 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:26:00 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:26:02 hm wait. 23:27:45 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:29:20 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:34:11 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:36:26 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:36:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:37:58 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:39:05 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:40:28 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:40:40 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:50:13 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving").