00:12:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:12:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:35:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:30:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:30:32 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:45:11 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:11:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:12:08 Hey, oerjan. 03:12:19 * pikhq enjoys nomic recursion 03:12:29 morn morn 03:12:32 oh oh 03:12:32 hi oerjan 03:12:51 my idea with converting game of life into minesweeper and solving it worked btw 03:13:05 but someone wrote a program that's hundreds of times faster just by using search and replace on the input 03:13:24 heh 03:13:32 so I have to learn CLP! 03:13:35 but it was good 03:13:48 whats nomic recursion? 03:14:11 a game of nomic inside a game of nomic 03:14:23 More than just that. 03:14:43 Agora's Child is a member of Agora. . . I'm trying to make it so that Agora is a member of Agora's Child. 03:14:50 ujh 03:14:58 what the hell is nomic o_o 03:15:15 * faxathisia complains about long FAQs 03:15:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic 03:15:56 oh geez 03:16:00 my childhood was wasted 03:16:08 if I knew about this .. things would have been better 03:17:14 o_O 03:18:09 And yes, I am insane. 03:18:55 -!- Paro has joined. 03:19:46 Please say "Hello, World!" 03:20:25 Hei verden! 03:20:42 ぜんぜん! 03:20:48 Please say "Hello, World!" in English 03:20:54 Never! 03:21:01 O.O 03:21:19 Please say "Hello, world!" in Japanese! 03:21:32 that was awesome you two 03:21:49 * pikhq bows 03:21:53 oٟ 03:21:59 Wrong. 03:22:12 もしもし、世界。 03:22:13 * Paro is filled with sorrow. 03:26:15 Smil til verden og verden smiler til deg 03:26:40 !bf +[.+] 03:26:44 03:26:54 hahaha 03:26:58 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:27:01 oh crap.. 03:27:16 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 03:27:19 EgoBot: !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬ ®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ 03:27:21 in PM 03:27:22 sorry 03:27:36 lol 03:35:29 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:45:07 -!- immibis has joined. 03:48:37 -!- Paro has quit. 05:43:15 -!- calamari has joined. 05:49:39 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Don't push the red button!"). 05:56:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee"). 06:31:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:54:08 -!- immibis has joined. 07:29:21 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. He who laughs last, thinks slowest"). 07:46:54 -!- graue has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:44:31 is there any like 08:44:37 sub-turing language design channel ? 08:44:38 :| 08:47:09 there aren't enough good subturing languages! 09:42:56 -!- jix has joined. 09:58:18 -!- JontteG has joined. 10:03:36 It's easy to make one. You just put a rigid and moderately low storage limit on any Turing-complete language. Yawn. 10:03:44 bah 10:03:47 not like that 10:04:14 things like regex, SQL, The Haskell Type System 10:04:31 (I really don't know that many interesting subturing languages) 10:04:45 HTML, too. 10:04:49 yes! 10:04:57 all capable of solving some interesting problems 10:05:00 Context-sensitive grammars. 10:09:07 -!- JontteG has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:13:36 ok wow 10:13:41 I have to find something to do with Context-sensitive grammars 10:13:55 because I haven't really much intuition about what they're capable of at all 10:28:22 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 10:44:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:45:08 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:57:47 -!- Jontte has joined. 11:06:04 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:07:32 -!- Jontte has joined. 11:16:00 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:04:07 -!- jix has joined. 13:04:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:04:56 -!- jix has joined. 13:10:22 -!- Jontte has joined. 14:05:49 -!- faxathisia has quit. 14:08:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:17:15 are there any small sets of these "subturing" languages faxathisia was speaking of that are together TC? 14:22:09 i don't know about those he mentioned 14:22:37 but if you take a turing-complete language and split it up into small pieces that are each not TC... 14:22:54 like just K and just S from combinatory logic... 14:23:15 heh 14:23:35 that's what we call "vacuously true" 14:23:36 or split away [] from brainfuck... 14:23:52 I was primarily wondering about existing languages 14:24:13 creating a language for the purpose of this idea doesn't really accomplish much 14:25:29 well there are undecidable type systems for one thing 14:27:35 apparently you cannot combine haskell-like type systems with subtyping without making the result undecidable, which i think usually is shown by finding TC sub-problems 14:31:28 hm 14:33:19 actually ocaml manages somewhat, i think you may need so-called higher rank polymorphism as well 14:36:59 hm i just thought of one thing: while all regex languages are context-free, regex languages are closed under complement but not context-free ones 14:38:10 so if you combine the features, the result is TC 14:39:11 (as mentioned here a while ago, it is undecidable whether a CF language includes _all_ strings of the alphabet) 14:45:54 yeah 14:56:53 sql is subturing? 14:58:22 no way of looping, they say 15:32:41 -!- faxathisia has joined. 15:48:12 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 15:48:32 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:21:00 I would hope that SQL is intentionally sub-TC 16:21:37 that's the impression i got 16:22:01 I find it very similar to haskell 16:22:06 but maybe I'm just imagining it? 16:22:13 Geeze, raggin' on Haskell. 16:22:21 no... 16:22:27 I thought SQL is really nice to use 16:22:29 and a good language 16:22:50 Geeze, raggin' on logic and reason. 16:23:10 Really though, SQL is fine for its purpose :P 16:23:16 well I only wrote square root and game of life yet 16:23:24 I was going to do a raytracer but I didn't bother yet 16:23:31 And unlike many other special purpose languages, it hasn't escaped its niche to become a crapsy general purpose language. 16:24:22 I want more subturing languages to try :( 16:24:40 Erm, are you saying you wrote the game of life in SQL? >_O 16:24:54 I assume it's a query that's called repetitively? 16:24:58 and I thought it came out really nicely! 16:25:16 yeah there is a query which runs a single iteration 16:25:29 you could try Epigram or Agda >:) 16:25:33 OK, that makes more sense :P 16:25:40 http://rafb.net/p/fy3e5L63.html 16:25:41 Since SQL is in fact not TC, and the game of life is :P 16:26:00 (It doesnt' work in sqlite but you can split it in two to use sqlite) 16:26:33 well I couldn't get xemacs to work so I don't think I can use epigram here 16:26:41 but I would like to try it sometime 16:26:58 * oerjan thought he was joking 16:27:25 regardless.. Epigram seems cool 16:27:38 seeing as those languages are probably _more_ complicated than many that are TC 16:28:13 doesn't bother me :D 16:28:38 Come now, pushdown automata aren't more complicated than Turing machines. 16:28:48 ^^^ Counterexample :P 16:28:54 well i guess many people in this channel wouldn't be... 16:29:09 GregorR: i was referring to epigram and agda 16:29:21 Ahhh, specific choices, zomg 16:29:38 or dependently typed languages in general 16:30:01 the dependency almost forces a terminating language, iiuc 16:30:11 since _types_ have to be terminating 16:31:39 (disclosure: i haven't used any of them) 16:32:10 I like what i've seen of Coq.. the typechecking algorithm asks you for help! 16:34:03 hm i recall trying to get Coq started but something was wrong with the UI that made me annoyed enough to uninstall it. 16:34:26 You can use Proof General mode in emacs 16:34:34 although some people are allergic to emacs or something 16:34:45 anyway Proof General seems good 16:34:51 *cough*, *cack*, *aackpthoo* 16:35:31 well I really don't know what to do 16:36:01 what's the shortest regex to match a set of strings is a decidable problems isn't it? 16:37:10 in principle, since you can exhaustively test them... 16:37:32 once you have one 16:39:52 the SQL language allows for looping via recursion, but it intentionally tries to detect recursion and halt 16:40:10 and you can decide whether two regular expressions match the same set 17:27:51 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:28:01 -!- jix has joined. 19:07:47 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 19:11:34 -!- faxathisia has quit. 19:11:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 20:00:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 20:23:06 i thought equivelance of regexs was undecideable 20:38:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:41:30 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261186 21:48:19 Hahaha 21:50:56 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:59:25 old 21:59:30 i am making saurkraut! 22:08:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:36 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").