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02:38:58 <Sgeo> How should http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX be categorized?
03:05:02 <faxathisia> !bfgen @_@
03:05:06 <EgoBot> Huh?
03:05:19 <faxathisia> !help
03:05:22 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:05:24 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:06:42 <Sgeo> !bf_txtgen @_@
03:07:12 <EgoBot> 46 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<. [294]
03:07:30 <faxathisia> !bf8 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<.
03:07:34 <EgoBot> @_@
03:07:44 <Sgeo> bf8?
03:07:53 <faxathisia> 8 bit cells I guess
03:10:25 <faxathisia> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms
03:10:44 <faxathisia> I need more algorithms and constants and stuff :D
03:11:34 <Sgeo> You'll get stuff when PSOX is completed.. admittedly, it will be stuff relating to PSOX..
03:12:22 <faxathisia> I need to make a language which compiles into brainfuck
03:12:37 <faxathisia> and have a cost on everything in the AST
03:13:07 <Sgeo> AST?
03:14:00 <faxathisia> well I only want to represent stuff inside a program, there's no need for syntax
03:15:03 <faxathisia> Sgeo: It's for this http://rafb.net/p/hcpRe110.txt
03:16:03 <Sgeo> ah. cool.
03:16:13 <Sgeo> But I'm still not sure what AST is..
03:16:22 <faxathisia> oh right
03:16:27 <faxathisia> it stands for abstract syntax tree
03:16:37 <faxathisia> it's just how you can represent a program as data
03:16:43 <faxathisia> it will look like lisp basically
03:17:22 <faxathisia> BFStatement = + | - | < | > | [ | ] | . | ,
03:17:35 * Sgeo wonders if this sort of thing can be useful for PSOX somehow
03:17:38 <Sgeo> Thank you very much
03:17:40 <faxathisia> BFProgram = Nil | Cons BFStatment BFProgram
03:18:19 <faxathisia> what I thought I would do is make
03:18:21 <Sgeo> Can I use that sort of thing to interpret a bunch of bytes into elements?
03:18:25 <faxathisia> Add X Y | Sub X Y ...
03:18:41 <faxathisia> and be able to get a cost (length of outputted brainfuck) so I can try to minimize it
03:19:05 <faxathisia> well you can parse some bytes into an ast
03:19:09 <Sgeo> Where can I find more info, Wikipedia isn't comprehensible to me
03:19:27 <Sgeo> faxathisia, and can I use that in a program to find out where data I'm being sent ends?
03:19:47 <faxathisia> mm I don't think so
03:19:52 <faxathisia> It's probably not helpful in that respect
03:20:13 <faxathisia> well what do you mean?
03:20:57 <Sgeo> I have a type, say that is 0x01 dbyte 0x01 dbyte2 0x00 then more junk
03:21:05 <Sgeo> Can I use it to somehow find where it ends?
03:21:08 <Sgeo> For example?
03:21:22 <Sgeo> My current idea is to use regex, but it isn't flexible enough
03:21:26 <faxathisia> oh I see
03:21:45 <faxathisia> well if you have a decent description of the lannguage
03:22:04 <Sgeo> It's not a language, it's a stream of bytes to be interpreted into data
03:22:21 <Sgeo>  http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-types.txt
03:22:45 <Sgeo> Is there a link for more info on AST I can read?
03:24:06 <faxathisia> wait
03:24:10 <faxathisia> in
03:24:11 <faxathisia> psox-types.txt
03:24:16 <faxathisia> say I give you this:
03:24:55 <faxathisia> 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64
03:25:08 <faxathisia> 0x0
03:25:27 <Sgeo> The function that is accepting the data knows the types..
03:25:34 <faxathisia> Do you also have to know that it's an LNUM followed by STRING?
03:25:39 <faxathisia> to interpret that data
03:25:44 <Sgeo> yes
03:26:10 <faxathisia> yeah ok that's cool you can just LEX
03:26:15 <Sgeo> LEX?
03:26:18 <faxathisia> there isn't need I think for an AST or parser
03:26:48 <faxathisia> what language you are writing the thing to interpret these bytes in?
03:27:11 <Sgeo> Python
03:28:15 <Sgeo> What's LEX?
03:28:35 <faxathisia> to lex is just turning some bytes or characters into tokens
03:28:46 <faxathisia>  I would probably have a procedure which takes <Stream of data> <type> and returns <datum> <tail of the stream>
03:29:16 <faxathisia> then you can just call that repeatedly until all the data types you required are read from the bytes
03:29:43 <faxathisia> so e.g calling it with LNUM and 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64, would return 5465445 and 0x58 0x67 0x64
03:30:06 * Sgeo wants to be able to do things that regex won't allow though
03:30:28 <Sgeo> Like a datatype specified as num_of_bytes_following than that number of bytes
03:30:28 <faxathisia> yeah not using regex..
03:30:31 <Sgeo> For instance
03:30:35 <Sgeo> WHat should I use?
03:30:58 <faxathisia> well honestly I would do this with a logic programming language
03:31:12 <faxathisia> If you can find a simple logic system to embed in python it would be nice
03:32:20 <faxathisia> but it might be too big a hammer for a small task... So just doing it straight forward if/else type checking each character one by one would be easy too
03:32:51 <Sgeo> blargh
03:33:27 <Sgeo> Something like that was the original plan, actually, but I thought it might be too complicated
03:33:46 <Sgeo> I was designing it in my mind using generators and things
03:34:32 <faxathisia> It seems quite simple to me
03:34:44 <faxathisia> well
03:34:50 <faxathisia> using regex like in your example seems a bit confusing
03:35:02 <faxathisia> I would probably make a stream object
03:35:37 <faxathisia> you can take the head, which is a char, and the tail which might cause a read on stdin
03:35:56 <faxathisia> cause if you are dealing with arbitrary length stuff like big nums .. it wouldn't be possible to regex it would it?
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03:37:57 <faxathisia> Sgeo: I dont' think what I said makes sense
03:38:03 <faxathisia> Sgeo: Did it? :S
03:38:18 <Sgeo> I don't see why regex can't be used, but I don't think it should be used..
03:38:24 <Sgeo> Too restrictive..
03:38:31 <faxathisia> yeah
03:38:42 <faxathisia> let me see if I understand what you are doing..
03:38:48 <faxathisia> say you have some program B written in brainfuck
03:39:18 <faxathisia> it will print out some kind of signal saying I will call a function with a string and 2 numbers as parameters
03:39:40 <faxathisia> and PSOX is going to be reading the stdout of B and doing what B asks
03:39:43 <faxathisia> is that correct?
03:39:58 <Sgeo> Well, the signal simply specifies the function, and the types are part of the function..
03:40:04 <Sgeo> But other than that, yess
03:40:10 <faxathisia> ah ok I understand
03:40:17 <faxathisia> so how I see it is this:
03:40:34 <faxathisia> PSOX has an input stream from B called Sb
03:40:41 <faxathisia> and you can read a single character from Sb
03:41:03 <faxathisia> since Sb might output text of unbounded length (in the case of a string or big integer)
03:41:10 <Sgeo> brb afk
03:41:28 <faxathisia> There should be some structure which copes with that
03:41:52 <faxathisia> the easiest thing I can imagine is a pair of (char . Stream).. with operations head and tail
03:42:08 <faxathisia> head gives the char, and tail gives a new pair (next_char . Stream) by reading one char
03:42:48 <faxathisia> so given that it should be simple enough to write something which takes a type (STRING, LNUM etc) and one of those objects.. returning the read object and new pair
03:47:01 <Sgeo> hm
03:47:10 * Sgeo isn't sure that he understands
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05:04:30 <RodgerTheGreat> hey, everyone.
05:04:35 <RodgerTheGreat> Did anyone miss me?
05:06:46 * faxathisia moos at RodgerTheGreat
05:07:13 <RodgerTheGreat> hello, faxathisia
05:07:38 * RodgerTheGreat offers faxathisia oats
05:07:56 <faxathisia> :D
05:14:10 <RodgerTheGreat> what's up?
05:14:25 <faxathisia> searching for brainfuck stuff
05:14:35 <faxathisia> like proofs that a program is the shortest one or whatever
05:14:35 <bsmntbombdood> oats?
05:14:55 <faxathisia> I found http://d.hatena.ne.jp/ku-ma-me/20070813/p1
05:15:13 <RodgerTheGreat> interesting
05:15:31 <RodgerTheGreat> It's rather frightening how much of that I can understand without any knowledge of Japanese
05:17:25 * Sgeo wonders if it can be proven that there cannot be such a proof
05:18:07 <faxathisia> you can probably just enumerate every program and find the first one that could possibly print something
05:18:16 <faxathisia> so you can sometimes do it for a particular string
05:18:33 <Sgeo> hm, true
05:28:33 <RodgerTheGreat> and if you can prove it that way, there may be more complex ways to do it more efficiently
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06:34:58 <faxathisia> grr
06:35:01 <faxathisia> I think my idea was stupid
06:36:41 <faxathisia> It's not worthwhile to create a set of actions which have an associated brainfuck version... to try and compose in order to make short brainfuck code since the problem just becomes harder [I think]
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13:25:39 <oklopol> ¨/join #geordi
13:25:42 <oklopol> whoops
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14:04:21 <Sgeo> Hi RedDak
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16:15:17 <Sgeo> Hi oerjan
16:15:21 <oerjan> hi Sgeo
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16:17:30 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:30 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:30 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:30 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:31 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:31 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:36 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:38 <ehird`> hi ehird`
16:17:44 <ehird`> Segmentation fault
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17:45:21 <ehird`> is trying to get emacs to boot from scratch an esoteric enough  thought for this channel? :P
17:45:42 <ehird`> that would be amusing because emacs would actually have a quite nice UI/interface paradigm for an OS
17:46:03 <ehird`> despite its general failing at, uh, editing text
17:51:11 <ihope> Sounds fun.
17:51:59 <ihope> But does it have security?
17:55:46 <SimonRC> ehird`: the usual phrase is "A great OS but it lacks a decent text editor
17:55:48 <SimonRC> "
17:56:14 <ihope> I'm sure someone's ported vi to emacs.
17:57:26 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: they have
17:57:29 <bsmntbombdood> viper-mode
18:17:18 <ehird`> ihope: security, i doubt i t
18:17:21 <ehird`> but hey.
18:17:31 <ehird`> SimonRC: well, considering the OS is based on text editing
18:17:32 <ehird`> :)
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18:32:58 <ehird`> hmm
18:33:03 <ehird`> brainfuck compiler question
18:33:37 <ehird`> should i optimize MOVE(+x) MODIFY(...) MOVE(-x) to MODIFY(at=x,...)
18:33:40 <ehird`> seems like it'd be faster
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18:34:25 <Sgeo> Hi Tritonio
18:34:43 <Slereah-> Hello.
18:35:48 <ehird`> anyone?
18:36:11 <Tritonio> hello everybody
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19:13:44 <Sgeo> Hi sebbu
19:13:48 <Sgeo> sebbu2
19:14:13 <Slereah-> Hi.
19:15:04 <oerjan> hey, don't point that at me!
19:16:41 <Sgeo> oerjan, hm?
19:17:13 <oerjan> that ->
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20:05:13 <ehird`> I just realised my BF compiler's architechture is output-language neutral :)
20:05:39 <ehird`> It goes parse BF->compile BF into instructions->convert instructions into $LANG (LANG currently = D, could be easily made C and others)
20:05:43 <ehird`> it optimizes too
20:08:43 <Sgeo> s/><//g s/<>//g s/+-//g s/-+//g s/(\]\.*?)\[.*?\]/\1/g
20:09:23 <Sgeo> hm that last one doesn't quite work
20:13:30 <Sgeo> Thoughts on http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Prevent_XSS_attacks ?
20:14:53 <ehird`> it's not really funny.
20:15:04 <Slereah-> Uncyclopedia is not really funny in general.
20:15:11 <Slereah-> ED is better.
20:15:17 <Slereah-> And often factual!
20:15:18 <Sgeo> ehird`, any ideas for improvements?
20:15:20 <Slereah-> Well, sort of.
20:15:21 <ehird`> Slereah-: if you like being an idiot with no brain, sure
20:15:32 <ehird`> Sgeo: rewrite it? :| it's just incorrect, not incorrect in a funny way
20:15:48 <Slereah-> Oh man, ice burn!
20:16:01 * Sgeo has no clue how to make it incorrect in a funny way
20:16:44 <ehird`> Slereah-: well hey, ED is written by idiots with no brain
20:16:54 <ehird`> it wasn't trying to be an 'ice burn'
20:17:24 <Slereah-> Same as Uncyclopedia!
20:18:45 <ehird`> difference: uncyclopedia is funny and isn't populated with people saying 'lulz ice burn ohauhsushshsfhsdkjfhsfhsgsdk'
20:20:23 <Slereah-> Really? Then it must have changed quite a bit since the last time I saw it!
20:20:30 <Slereah-> The articles were pretty much "Lol random".
20:21:39 <Slereah-> While a lot of ED articles, though not useful, have the advantage of being true.
20:21:43 <Slereah-> Full of internet lore!
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20:26:15 <ehird`> BF implementation question: it's required to read the input code as bytes, yes?
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20:51:03 <Sgeo> Hi immibis
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21:06:03 * SimonRC goes
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21:50:56 <immibis> christel said [Global Notice] Hi all, we're experiencing some routing problems between our US hub and the machine services reside on, I'm about to do some re-routing and will also move services. There will be NO services while we swap things around. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812!
21:53:35 <immibis> forgot to delete that script. oops!
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21:55:40 <Sgeo> immibis, what are RFC 1459 and 2812?
21:56:14 <immibis> the ones that define irc
21:56:33 <immibis> and say that an automated message can never be sent in response to a NOTICE.
21:57:13 <immibis> i got a global notice with the word Hi in it and the script i made *automatically* responded with a WHOIS, a VERSION, and a NOTICE as well as a message to this channel.
21:57:33 <immibis> oh and the notice said "you are such a fool". not a good thing to say to an IRCop.
22:00:07 <Sgeo> >.>
22:00:25 <Sgeo> WHy didn't I get the global notice?
22:00:50 <Sgeo> What would happen if I changed my nick to MemoServ?
22:00:56 <Sgeo> Or NickServ, etc.?
22:01:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:02:42 <Sgeo> * SgeoServ :Erroneous Nickname
22:03:34 <immibis> [11:05] ->> Error 432 - ImmibisServ :Erroneous Nickname
22:03:41 <immibis> anything ending with Serv is a service i guess.
22:04:13 <Sgeo> <Tstarnes> Sgeo: You can't. Anything with serv in it is illegal
22:04:26 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ServSgeo.
22:04:59 -!- ServSgeo has changed nick to Servera.
22:05:04 -!- Servera has changed nick to Serve.
22:05:39 <Serve> * Server :Erroneous Nickname
22:05:46 -!- Serve has changed nick to Sgeo.
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22:11:51 <ehird`> immibis: well, that was pretty stupid.
22:12:04 <Sgeo> ehird`, hm?
22:12:09 * Sgeo falls asleep
22:12:19 <ehird`> wow
22:12:22 <ehird`> that was broken
22:12:34 <Sgeo> ?
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23:08:30 <immibis> new script, anyone who says "What is Hadjin?" (not case-sensitive) is told what Hadjin is, and there is a 20% chance that anyone who speaks will be called a fool.
23:08:42 <immibis> if you find this annoying as i am sure you will, tell me.
23:10:10 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:18 <immibis> hmm
23:10:21 <immibis> must be an error in it
23:10:25 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:29 <immibis> [12:10] -- Script Engine Error:13:Type mismatch: 'Rand': Line #10 --
23:10:35 <oklokok> o
23:10:43 <immibis> try again
23:10:54 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:55 <immibis> Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game
23:10:59 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:59 <immibis> Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game
23:11:03 <oklokok> o
23:11:14 <Sgeo> Wut's Hadjin?
23:11:17 <Sgeo> Hadjin?
23:11:21 <oklokok> no one is being called a fool
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23:11:45 <immibis> hmm...
23:11:55 * Sgeo can't find information about Hadjin
23:12:12 <immibis> "If (condition OR condition) And rnd() > 0.5 Then" is proper VBScript, isn't it?
23:13:32 <ehird`> unfortunately, it's possible
23:13:37 <immibis> immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/
23:13:47 <ehird`> Why are you using VBScript :P
23:14:18 <immibis> test
23:14:20 <immibis> good
23:14:29 <immibis> i made it intercept everything i said too.
23:14:30 <ehird`> Whyyyyyyy are you using VBScript >_<
23:14:42 <immibis> because icechat 5 script is based on vbscript
23:14:53 <immibis> even though i'm using icechat 7, i find v5 scripting is more versatile.
23:14:58 <immibis> immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/
23:14:58 <immibis> what is hadjin?
23:16:42 <immibis> immibis, you are such a fool!
23:16:50 <immibis> ok
23:16:52 <immibis> whoever says every TENTH message gets insulted.
23:16:57 <immibis> or is it eleventh?
23:16:58 <immibis> not sure.
23:17:08 <oklokok> o
23:17:08 <oklokok> o
23:17:08 <oklokok> o
23:17:09 <oklokok> o
23:17:09 <oklokok> o
23:17:09 <oklokok> o
23:17:09 <immibis> oklokok, you are such a fool!
23:17:11 <oklokok> o
23:17:13 <oklokok> o
23:17:15 <oklokok> o
23:17:17 <oklokok> cool
23:17:19 <oklokok> i'm a fool
23:17:31 <oklokok> whoops
23:17:32 <oklokok> o
23:17:47 <immibis> it includes my own messages.
23:17:52 <immibis> immibis, you are such a fool!
23:17:52 <immibis> and messages from any channel.
23:17:55 <oklokok> i know
23:18:03 <immibis> including bots btw
23:18:22 <ehird`> why are you using icechat then immibis
23:18:32 * ehird` wikipedias
23:18:33 <ehird`> ewww
23:18:41 <ehird`> it has a custom skin and is written in VB
23:18:46 <immibis> it is?
23:18:47 <ehird`> a custom damn skin that looks fugly as hell
23:18:48 * immibis didn't know
23:18:52 <immibis> it's usable
23:19:09 <ehird`> so is irc clients that don't add ugly gradients everywhere
23:19:09 <immibis> ehird`, you are such a fool!
23:19:10 <immibis> so what as long as it works
23:19:12 <oklokok> immibis: includes bots too?!? how did you make it *not* distinguish between messages sent by bots and human-driven clients?!?
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23:19:25 <ehird`> and icons with white pixeled edges
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23:26:00 <immibis> now parts and quits count.
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