00:00:07 Seems like 128-255 would be difficult for some languages to reach.. 00:00:20 well they won't need to do it often 00:00:28 make things odd andeven if you want instead 00:00:33 Then you need better compilers for those languages :-P 00:01:13 odd and even is a trivial bit-rearrangement in my idea 00:01:23 * of my idea 00:03:20 but..but..but.. 00:04:39 * Sgeo doesn't particularly like the idea of top-level commands 00:04:42 almost everything you would want is within reach of 30 characters of BF. 00:04:50 Sgeo: you don't need many 00:04:55 maybe just the meta stuff 00:05:14 But under my system, the meta stuff is all in domain 0 00:05:38 Incidentally, where would custom domains go? 00:06:21 you reserve some of your domains for custom domains 00:06:34 I mean, they go *under* them 00:06:56 since my scheme is recursive 00:09:35 hmm... maybe instead of a numbering for subdomains, the domain designer can designate what would have been a function as a tree 00:10:09 So that the specs for, e.g. domain 2 would state that 0x02 under domain2 leads to more functions.. 00:10:15 ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (self) (lambda (f) (f (lambda args (apply ((self self) f) args)))))) 00:10:35 Sgeo: maybe 00:10:52 that is a bit messy to decode... 00:11:05 actually, maybe not 00:22:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 00:30:50 -!- xor____ has joined. 00:31:16 -!- xor____ has quit (Client Quit). 00:31:33 -!- xor has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:31:39 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:33:51 Would having 0x00 0x00 0x00 be print NUL really be that bad? 00:34:10 dunno 00:34:18 if you didn;t doubt you would not haveasked 00:37:31 if you hadn't asked you would not have doubted 00:37:41 and causality be damned 00:43:33 Opinions: Is it ok to have Print NUL be 0x00 0x00 0x00? 00:44:10 Sure, as long as you don't intend on doing it a lot. 00:44:39 * SimonRC has an idea.... 00:44:49 it is brilliant! 00:45:11 you make 0x00 be the domain containing character printing functions... 00:45:34 if you want to print out character foo safely, the 0,0,foo is guaranteed to work 00:45:57 to avoid breaking cat and the likes 00:46:08 um 00:46:13 * Sgeo was going to write some BF code to always safely print a character 00:46:23 to allow you to make and unbreakable cat and the likes 00:46:32 Sgeo: that works too... 00:46:40 I like Simon's idea, though. 00:50:34 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:59:11 Hi ehird` 00:59:14 hi 01:00:08 hm, 0,0,0 as print NUL, 0,0,0,N as safe-print N? 01:00:12 erm 01:00:17 hm, 0,0,0 as print NUL, 0,0,1,N as safe-print N? 01:00:26 are you STILL working on that thing 01:00:29 :p 01:01:18 Or maybe the safe-print will be in another domain 01:01:30 I was planning a domain for things like printing as decimal.. 01:02:10 * Sgeo pokes SimonRC and pikhq 01:02:30 Hmm. 01:02:46 Domain 0 for various output functions. 01:03:10 -!- ehird` has quit. 01:03:51 How about domain 2 for output functions 01:03:56 domain0 should be system 01:05:02 hmm 01:25:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:26:03 goodnight... 01:26:18 Goodnight Tritonio 02:04:06 * SimonRC goes to bed 02:15:13 -!- RifR has joined. 02:35:35 Hi RifR 02:37:32 Hey 02:37:37 How ya doing 02:37:49 Good, working on PSOX 02:37:50 You? 02:38:01 Working on my forums 02:38:02 Bored 02:38:08 Hot as hell 02:42:09 Reading the "Joke Language" list 02:42:11 which is awesome 02:45:23 Hmm, we need more people whose names consist of at least one capital letter, then at least one small letter, then at least one capital letter. 02:45:45 Which I really ought to say as "more people whose names match /[A-Z]+[a-z]+[A-Z]+/". 02:46:05 I see GregorR, RifR, SimonRC. 02:46:10 lol 02:46:16 I like those. :-) 02:46:45 My handle is usually RifRaf, and I happened to notice someone else here goes by the same handle... which I have never seen since the early 90s when some warez courier was using it 02:47:24 Occasionally I'll find a website where "ihope" is taken. 02:47:29 They're all big ones, though. 02:50:15 ihope_ xor ihope 02:50:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to UtF03nmaDnWhnPm9. 02:51:41 my nick includes 96 random bits! 02:52:20 It's clearly just an obfuscation of "you wanna dun wit me". 02:52:30 What that means is beyond me. 02:55:10 -!- UtF03nmaDnWhnPm9 has changed nick to KhuUAwA7726av40w. 02:55:17 Haha 02:55:23 i'm transmitting secret messages to my field agents! 02:55:48 You should just use Fish ;) 02:57:13 -!- KhuUAwA7726av40w has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:57:20 they have their 192 bit key now 02:58:08 Fish? 02:58:25 It's a IRC encryption tool 02:58:52 He should just encode stuff in the lengths of his sentences. 02:59:04 Even number of letters = 0, odd number = 1. 03:00:09 that would be less obvious 03:00:49 Oh, you want to be obvious. 03:00:53 hehe 03:01:03 Who are these "field agents?" 03:01:04 Well, WHY don't you just use PLAINTEXT? 03:01:32 i meant that would be less obvious in a good way 03:03:45 that's a good idea actually 03:04:53 you might want to pay attention to my next few messages 03:05:40 actually...no, i'm to lazy 03:05:42 Okay. 03:05:50 haha 03:06:06 * pikhq has yet to find someone with the nickname of pikhq. . . 03:06:14 I'll point you at this video, then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVraVgzC9U 03:06:28 That's for being lazy, you big lazy-head! 03:06:28 Also, I propose that we use rot26 03:06:49 I propose that we call that cipher by its canonical name, rot0. 03:07:11 Bach? 03:07:13 what a nerd 03:07:15 :-P 03:07:37 Listen to smalin's version. It's pretty good. 03:08:01 and why are the keys on that organ moving by themselves? 03:08:09 They're supposed to, I guess. 03:08:24 ...aren't they? 03:09:15 bsmntbombdood: No, no, no. . . 03:09:23 GregorR? What a nerd. 03:09:58 http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTCQSk2l8bc 03:10:43 the revolution will not make your teeth whiter 03:11:02 Pff, a video that's not Toccata and Fugue in D minor. 03:14:05 Pft, the revolution will kill the TV. 03:14:09 blech 03:14:24 i have to write a letter to a pencil company telling them how great their pencils are 03:14:26 We, the GNU People, are the revolution. 03:14:33 bsmntbombdood: WTF?!? 03:14:47 Odd thing to have to do. 03:14:48 i hate english class 03:14:58 Oh. 03:15:03 Odd thing to have to do for English class. 03:15:11 * Sgeo goes to write the spec for the new version of PSOX 03:15:15 I hate your Englilsh teacher already. 03:15:21 What's that have to do with symbolism and messages? 03:16:10 bsmntbombdood: how would it be if you buried heavy doses of sarcasm about how anachronistic pencils are? 03:16:30 I've got a better idea. 03:16:36 Extremely subtle doses of sarcasm. 03:17:01 pencils are anachronistic? 03:17:11 Write to them asking how they feel about destroying forests in the name of anachronism and nostalgia. 03:17:26 mechanical pencil 03:17:34 What's wrong with destroying forests? 03:18:23 * pikhq takes a picture of his hippy self 03:18:32 ;p 03:18:49 let's see it 03:19:10 I was kinda kidding; don't exactly have a digital camera handy. 03:20:31 fail 03:21:42 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo.jpg 03:21:46 me me meee! 03:22:19 You need a beard & long hair. 03:22:47 i know 03:22:52 long hair not so much though 03:25:22 * Sgeo pokes the new http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 03:26:21 * Sgeo pokes pikhq and SimonRC 03:26:29 Sgeo: what do you do if you want to output lots of NUL? 03:26:47 Do lots of 0x00 0x00 0x00.. 03:27:02 That's a third as efficient as it could be. 03:27:06 (As if.) 03:27:18 Well, depend. 03:27:21 ...s. 03:27:48 The idea is "sane API", not "world's most efficient one". 03:27:59 NUL as an escape, to me, is sane. 03:28:51 Allowing the escape to be set isn't that hard, is it> 03:30:24 ..I guess not.. 03:30:45 other than needing to change the documentation a bit, ofc 03:30:59 But is there real demand for it? 03:32:21 No :-P 03:34:58 lol http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/~pete/beard.html 03:37:07 "It is quite possible that I had only thought I felt warmer. I suggest that a better test would be to shave half a person's beard off, but not tell them which half." http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/~pete/beard.html 03:37:12 Indeed, I'm sure that'll work wonders. 03:37:39 he ruined his nice beard 03:37:50 darn you beat me to it 03:40:44 -!- importantshock_ has joined. 03:40:47 i am not sure i believe that 6 weeks after picture... 03:43:53 -!- importantshock_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:55:40 main()<% printf((char<::>)<%'C',' ','i','s',' ','i','n','s','a','n','e','??/n',0%>);%> 03:57:20 trigraphs? 03:57:23 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 03:57:26 And digraphs. 03:57:45 Combined with using an array literal format for a C string. 04:06:54 * Sgeo works on the specs for Domain 0x02 04:08:55 * Sgeo suddenly realizes that his longnum format has no negative number support 04:09:58 natural numbers ftw 04:10:25 * Sgeo adds in a quick&cheap way to support negative numbers 04:10:35 "The indicator 0x02 can only be used as the first indicator, and means that a data byte follows, and the number is negative." 04:16:36 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txthttp://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt updated 04:16:38 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 04:16:45 erm 04:18:14 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt updated! http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-io-utils.txt added! 04:18:17 * Sgeo pokes pikhq 04:21:13 plz for puts newlines cuz bad interps kthx 04:28:19 Done 04:28:43 Well, that was helpful, but not what I meant at all : 04:28:49 :P 04:29:26 ..oh 04:29:32 lol 04:29:58 Couldn't you just use 10 to print a newline? 04:30:18 I mean, all requests and responses should end with an ignored newline. 04:30:42 Since most interpreters based on C will find they have buffered stdin/stdout. 04:30:50 Buffered to lines that is 04:30:52 * pikhq gets t3h uberbored, looks through #esoteric logs 04:31:15 * GregorR takes pikhq's uberbored and turns it into ... AN UBERBOARD 04:31:50 not an uberbeard? 04:32:19 buffered stdout 04:32:20 ? 04:33:10 Sgeo: int main() { int i; printf("Oh noes!"); for (i = 0; i <= 100000000; i++) {} printf("\n"); return 0; } 04:33:21 Sgeo: It won't print that "Oh noes!" until after the wait. 04:33:28 Sgeo: Because it's buffered on newlines. 04:35:34 * Sgeo doesn't know how to fix that 04:35:50 Simple: Require ignored newlines on all your commands. 04:35:57 (And responses) 04:36:23 * pikhq searches for his first entrance to #esoteric 04:36:27 It's easy to fix it in the interpreter, but probably more interpreters for esoteric languages are broken than not. 04:37:56 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.07.18 Gots it. (well, fine. First words, not first entrance.) 04:38:42 Are there interpreters that require Windows newlines? 04:38:55 * lament wonders what is the first thing in the logs 04:39:51 Sgeo: IIRC, every C on Windows I've heard of will flush on \n anyway. 04:40:13 Sgeo: Especially since most treat that as a UNIX newline in output anyway :) 04:40:49 oh wow, the channel was... pretty quiet back then :) 04:41:21 Still is on some days. 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- log: started esoteric/03.01.17 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #esoteric 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- topic: 'Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum!' 04:42:01 hehehe 04:46:18 SamB and exarkun used to come here... 04:47:07 SamB on #haskell? 04:47:39 yeah 04:47:50 except he was on #python backt hen 04:48:15 -!- RifR has quit. 04:53:54 more fish plox 04:55:07 G'night all 04:55:17 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:59:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:00:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:02:09 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:02:52 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:12:21 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:12:37 -!- sorear has joined. 05:25:04 -!- naringas has joined. 05:36:09 -!- naringas has quit. 05:38:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:44:22 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:49:05 Allow me to introduce. . . PEBBLE. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.09.03 :p 05:53:22 do not put the baby 05:57:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 06:01:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:38:55 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:39:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:40:41 -!- Arrogant has joined. 07:04:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:46:20 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:55:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:22:48 -!- sorear has quit ("zzz"). 09:19:04 -!- kwertii has quit. 09:23:41 -!- Naranek has left (?). 10:10:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:11:47 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:58:38 -!- jix_ has joined. 12:56:35 -!- Figs has joined. 12:56:39 yowza 12:56:52 brainfuck interpreters are a lot simpler than I was making them 12:56:53 :P 12:57:25 I feel like an idiot 12:57:56 still, at 44 lines, I've made it a bit bloated 12:58:01 I can do better 13:08:02 what's the fastest way to left-shift by 9999 in brainfuck? 13:09:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:09:50 hi RedDak 13:09:57 any idea how to leftshift by 9999 in brainfuck? 13:10:06 (like < * 9999) 13:10:19 without actually typing that o.o 13:20:57 If you have "walking" facilities available (and you should) you can use those. 13:21:08 walking? 13:21:45 it's very plain brainfuck 13:21:49 since I wrote it myself 13:22:01 You put gaps in-between your data, then use these to keep track of where you are on the tape 13:22:09 or something like that 13:22:09 I just wanted to exploit something peculiar to my implimentation so I could write a quine :P 13:23:43 basically the input to the program is 9999 bytes away from the actual memory :P 13:23:54 so I could (in theory) have self-rewriting brainfuck 13:24:21 just for fun 13:24:35 it'd be easier I guess if I'd put it the other way around 13:25:30 not sure about that though 13:26:23 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*index_=input,*bfptr=index_+9999, 13:26:23 **stack=(char**)(input+2*9999); <- is this portable? 13:26:47 I'd think it should be 13:29:05 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*bfptr=index+9999,**stack=&(input+2*9999); 13:29:33 Hrm. 13:29:35 No. 13:29:42 I'm reinterpreting the memory 13:29:54 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*bfptr=&index[9999],**stack=&&input[2*9999]; 13:37:55 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:38:13 -!- jix__ has joined. 13:55:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:59:53 * SimonRC goes shopping 14:57:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:00:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:03:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 15:18:32 yay 15:18:45 I just wrote a brainfuck program that modified itself :P 15:19:16 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:19:21 not portable, ohhh so not portable :D 15:19:25 hi ehird` 15:19:43 I just wrote a bf program that modifies itself because of the way my buffers line up :P 15:20:07 it's not very pretty though :'( 15:21:34 Figs: hi 15:22:18 I should go to bed 15:22:19 it's 7 am 15:22:20 :P 15:25:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:30:54 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 15:31:37 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:46:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:46:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:00:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:01:43 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 16:08:03 -!- ehird`_ has quit. 16:11:25 -!- calamari has joined. 16:21:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 16:25:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:27:36 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 16:29:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:43:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:44:54 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:53:58 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:02:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 18:35:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:36:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:39:46 sgiooubg? 18:40:33 interesting 18:40:47 if my fingers are on the wrong keys and i don't know it, i type wrong 18:41:04 but if i purposely put my fingers on the wrong keys, they correct themselves 18:41:51 ometresting 18:41:52 :DD 18:41:58 that was pretty cool 18:42:19 omyrtrsting 18:42:49 they move on the right keys after a few presses even if i'm not looking at the screen 18:43:55 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 18:46:56 Gelklo wrodl 18:46:58 hmm 18:47:07 AGekkoiwm owrld# 18:47:14 Hello, world 18:47:16 it's true 18:47:34 i can't make myself type on the wrong keys 18:47:43 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:51:25 gkekim wirikd# 18:53:46 oh damn 18:53:55 what 18:54:09 i just listened to the miss south carolina girl 18:55:13 our education maps need to help US americans with south africa and the iraq?!?!?!! 18:57:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww 18:58:46 not everyone has maps 19:01:21 haha my gf is like that 19:01:54 you can stand to be around someone like that? 19:02:04 she must be reeaaaaaally good in bed 19:02:29 bsmntbombdood: oh my god i puked up retardsauce 19:02:31 :DD 19:02:37 i think that video is why 19:02:42 ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT 19:02:49 all the idiocy in the world building up... and then it just had to come out. 19:03:26 bsmntbombdood: she's not really like that, but that would be a fun gf 19:03:40 it would? 19:03:41 i could play with an idiot all day long 19:03:44 sure 19:03:56 penis goes where? 19:04:08 i would laugh a lot though, so i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand me. 19:12:45 http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2003/Everything-Is-Illegal1esp03.htm 19:13:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcHdIvKQBU&NR=1 <<< i was thinking "comma" :) 19:13:35 "introduce" oh 19:14:11 i'm pretty sure i've developed some sort of dyslexia 19:14:44 how late can you get that? 19:14:56 and can you catch it from a friend? 19:16:41 that's wouldn't exactly be "dyslexia", "stupedia"? 19:17:54 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:19:16 s/that's/that 19:28:53 a colon isn't commonly used to introduce a list of items 19:33:46 i don't think that either, but more often than a comma :) 19:35:24 "star wars is based on a true story. true or false" "true." 19:37:04 "where was the berlin wall?" "ummmm...israel?" 19:37:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&mode=related&search= 19:40:49 you could make a video like that anywhere though 19:42:14 yeah, that'd be fun 19:42:24 i might make a finnish one someday 19:42:31 pretty stupid ppl here too 19:43:16 i might actually believe a vid like that was true if i had made it myself 19:44:49 bsmntbombdood: ..."true"?! 19:44:57 bsmntbombdood: is it a faked video or something i haven't watched it 19:45:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AbXR4fbhOQ&NR=1 <<< i wouldn't have known what a "surge protector" is 19:45:52 i would've gotten that right of course, still :P 19:46:00 unexpected surges of water 19:46:13 ehird`: it looks real 19:47:47 so great watching ppl be stupid, i don't understand how everyone finds it so disgusting 19:47:57 oklopol: that was a terrible question 19:48:10 that surge thing? 19:48:16 "what is... the united kingdom" 19:48:35 yeah 19:49:01 hmm... why? 19:50:00 "surge protector" could be anything 19:50:20 COFFEE IS A DRINK 19:50:37 a surge protector protects from surges, that's all you can say without more information 19:51:14 well, natural language is often like that, but do many people buy anything but ones for electric surges? 19:51:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mkwB9ayK4 <<< i don't know what currency ireland uses :\ 19:51:40 i could make a vid like that from myself 19:57:55 guess that was enough for one day 20:00:36 an irc room/where messages are haiku/yes, interesting 20:00:50 #haiku-irc! 20:01:28 no 20:01:36 yes 20:01:36 :p 20:02:14 i cannot say anything on that channel. 20:02:27 why not? 20:02:34 i don't know haiku 20:02:40 5/7/5 syllables 20:03:37 syllables, okay/in haiku, five and then/seven, indeed 20:04:35 haiku sounds so finnish it stands out from your texts as a big wtf 20:05:09 because i have a hard time interpreting a sentence with multiple languages in it 20:29:42 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:37:10 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:11:34 oklopol: What's read(SELECT * FROM statements WHERE languages > 1).difficulty? 21:13:55 sql is stupid 21:15:44 embedding a language, as a string, into another language? wtf? 21:16:41 bsmntbombdood: lightweight sql-eliminators ftw 21:17:33 aka database abstraction layers 21:17:51 flat files ftw 21:17:57 flat files ftl 21:18:00 scalability ftw 21:18:27 GregorR: that's a personal weirdity of mine 21:18:41 select("statements", where=[x|x.languages > 1]) 21:18:44 where [] is lambda 21:18:45 or, 21:19:22 select("statements", where=cond("languages > 1")) 21:19:24 or similar 21:20:55 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:24:55 How nice of Google to put all their tech talks online. 21:25:40 heh: "three-napkins protocol" 21:25:40 when will you know if you've got the job? 21:26:10 oh, ah, yeah 21:26:22 they said to try re-applying in 6monthd 21:26:30 aaah 21:26:37 what will be different then? 21:26:45 dunno 21:26:48 I have other good-looking offers though 21:26:58 one interview on Friday 21:30:00 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:30:01 at first i thought you're about to interview a bunch of hot candidates 21:30:14 heh 21:31:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:40:16 what's tech talk? 21:40:22 in that context 21:41:48 a Google Tech Talk 21:42:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:42:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:42:32 !! 21:42:36 Huh? 21:42:38 !!! 21:42:42 Huh? 21:42:46 like, that is so freaky 21:43:20 SimonRC: how old are you? 21:43:30 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:43:33 pikhq and oerjan joined at the same second 21:43:41 yeah, that was scary 21:43:52 boo! 21:43:55 but i'm pretty sure it was planned 21:43:59 nope 21:44:05 oerjan and pikhq: you're not fooling anyone 21:44:07 * SimonRC forgets which people are close IRL 21:44:29 i don't think pikhq is on the same continent as me 21:45:11 pikhq is american, oerjan is norwegian 21:45:16 SimonRC is... american too (?) 21:45:33 tokigun_ is corean? 21:45:37 nope british 21:45:40 "209-248-125-179.falconbroadband.net" 21:45:44 lament is canadian? 21:45:51 look at my domain 21:45:53 oh, pikhq is british? 21:45:56 russian-canadian 21:45:57 ah you are 21:46:02 oops 21:46:06 i'm mexican! 21:46:08 pikhq = "209-248-125-179.falconbroadband.net" 21:46:10 SimonRC: i just guessed 21:46:12 you i mean 21:46:21 * SimonRC is in .ac.uk 21:46:23 lament: too late to fool me with that 21:46:36 unless you have fooled me a lot before 21:46:44 falconbroadband.net <<< doesn't really tell me the country :\ 21:46:52 i'm mexican starting tomorrow 21:47:02 for a brief while :) 21:47:06 oklopol: you might get a hint by visiting their website, perhaps 21:47:27 ni siquiera hablo ingles 21:47:53 yes... i could also read the whole esoteric logs or trick cia into hacking his home country for me 21:47:53 nunca lo sabia 21:48:09 i mean, who has the time to open a browser these days 21:48:10 not me 21:48:20 "Falcon Broadband, Inc. was started in 2003 in Colorado Springs, CO. We are a locally owned and operated company." 21:48:27 <--- blurb 21:48:51 oklopol: i think there may be a list of which ip's are in which country 21:49:02 oklopol: yes 21:49:12 there are a few websites that do that 21:49:23 also, the ietf provide lists on their website 21:49:54 they list the middlemen they give address ranges to, and include a web address where you can ask the middle-men for the details 21:50:01 so i was right about everyone except pikhq? 21:50:07 ... 21:50:09 ASgoijregoijesg 21:50:16 so i was right about everyone except SimonRC? 21:50:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:50:28 " SimonRC is... american too (?)" <--- yup, ish 21:50:29 ehird` is also american? 21:50:35 I mean, yup, you got it wrong 21:50:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 21:50:53 eres gringo 21:50:59 oklopol: what part of ".co.uk" did you not understand 21:51:11 "21:49:14 -!- ehird` [n=ehird@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #esoteric" 21:51:55 i understand it, i don't read it though 21:53:43 he only understands it when spoken aloud! 21:53:56 i haven't had a client that shows host @ join/quit, so haven't learned to look at that yet... 21:54:08 whoissing is like googling, who has the time? 21:54:23 oerjan: precisely 21:55:11 which client do you use? 21:55:16 i use mirc now 21:55:42 ouch 21:55:42 lament is too lazy to do /ctcp oklopol VERSION 21:56:06 of course, i'm mexican 21:56:13 lament: best client i've seen yet, you can point me towards a better one, if you know any 21:56:16 for win/unix 21:56:22 ah yes. 21:56:29 cool 21:56:33 i wanna be a mexican too :\ 21:56:40 hey, midnight @ 4 minutes 21:56:45 i could be mexican tomorrow? 21:57:47 umm... okloXoY, please fill in those two to be mexican 21:58:27 oklopotl? 21:58:29 i thought oklomex first, but i just can't be non-oCCoCoC 21:58:35 potl? 21:58:53 i'm a bit slow 21:58:54 mexican words sometimes contain tl 21:59:17 popocatepetl and such 21:59:44 hmm... i was thinking more like a 3-letter word CoC that is something stereotypically mexican :) 22:00:02 i'm pretty sure there's a lot of options... 22:00:21 * oerjan really feels unqualified for that question 22:01:42 -!- oklopol has changed nick to okloMeX. 22:01:44 o 22:01:47 :D 22:02:03 i don't know why that X is capitalized, but i kinda like it 22:02:22 -!- okloMeX has changed nick to okloMex. 22:02:44 i think this is the extent of my mexicanness for today 22:03:23 lament: better clients have you to mention? 22:03:55 personally i use irssi 22:04:03 but it probably doesn't play with windows very well 22:04:19 it does, and i also use unix 22:04:27 but i don't like it at all 22:04:47 prolly because i'm too lazy to learn all the commands 22:05:06 you want something point and click? 22:05:10 does it have a view where i don't have to remember which channels are behind which numbers? 22:05:11 okloTeX? 22:05:17 no, but i want something look and see. 22:05:35 SimonRC: also has "e", i need "o" for it to be better than this... 22:05:39 -!- okloMex has changed nick to okloTeX. 22:05:43 okloTeX: yes 22:05:49 guess variation is nice though 22:05:55 okloTeX: get the chanact.pl script 22:05:55 lament: didn't know 22:06:16 i use irssi, but it could have done with a modern help system 22:06:18 Oklo as in the nuclear reactors? 22:06:22 i don't see why people put mirc down though, there's nothing wrong with it imo 22:06:47 SimonRC: too long a story 22:07:09 try me 22:07:40 after oklopol mentioned it, i believe he chose the name because of the keyboard layout 22:07:43 Oklopol is a conworld of me and a few friend's.... that was pretty long, ay? 22:07:56 i didn't, that was an accident actually 22:08:13 i hate stuff where my hands aren't balanced 22:08:32 so something liek lskdjf would'we been nicer actually 22:09:57 conworlds fte 22:10:00 *ftw 22:10:14 are you on the ZBB? 22:10:34 or maybe conworlds.info (plug plug) 22:10:42 actually the story of the actual word "oklopol" is a lot longer, but it's not very interesting 22:10:55 umm... i'm not really anywhere :< 22:11:03 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:11:03 is this conworld online? 22:11:16 somewhat, in finnish form. 22:11:54 "okloglok"? 22:12:04 the actual world in detail doesn't exist in written form really 22:12:14 just some stories about it 22:12:18 ah, ok 22:12:33 wherefrom got you the term "conworld"? 22:12:45 from you, most likely :) 22:13:01 verrrry verrry long ago 22:13:14 when you first mentioned these... things 22:13:21 the ones you're obsessed with 22:13:53 the superclever dragon-like creatures whose name i think starts with a K 22:14:02 kigdatsi 22:14:10 exactly 22:14:17 * oerjan is just showing off his memory abilities 22:14:24 :P 22:15:01 i have a pretty amazing memory when it comes to stuff i actually memorize, i just don't do that automatically for pretty much anything 22:15:34 "amazing", most people are amazed by 10 digits of pi :P 22:16:06 * oerjan knows 15, though he memorized them 22:16:10 3.1415926535898 erm 22:16:27 2.718281828459045 22:16:35 rounding seems wrong when talking about memorizing digits... 22:16:48 yeah 22:17:08 i didn't even remember the *first* digits of e before i actually memorized 2.71 22:17:11 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 22:17:11 *digit 22:17:17 yeah 22:17:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:17:32 i had no idea it started with "2" even though i'd used it about 163 times 22:17:57 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 <<< ? 22:18:10 2^64 22:18:14 ah 22:18:32 I can remember that a round peg fits into a square hole better than the other way round up until approx dimension 5.16 22:18:57 i've been thinking of starting memorizing stuff as a hobby, i memorize pretty fast, i just never do it :| 22:18:57 I can remember skew's number: 10^10^10^34 22:19:07 like capitals, that's a one night job 22:19:14 but i've just never done it 22:19:15 I know the Elements Song 22:19:20 SimonRC: what happens after 5.16 22:19:35 capitals are insufficiently geeky 22:19:46 ehird`: it's the other way round 22:20:17 SimonRC: yeah. but why 22:20:23 dunno 22:20:31 i don't care about geeky really, would just be nice to train the brain 22:20:48 dunno how helpful that is 22:20:48 but yeah, it's *good* if it's geeky 22:20:57 okloTeX: are you like a new-age LaTeX replacement 22:21:06 I find obsession and reciting to be helpful 22:21:22 SimonRC: i can't visualize dimensions >3 ;/ 22:21:37 I cn;t either 22:22:06 i like memorizing just by reading, the visual peg system just makes it too easy... 22:22:15 what is that? 22:22:26 i can visualize extra dimensions by tacking attributes on points in 3d 22:22:28 ie color 22:22:35 that one book i was reading... 22:22:39 but then i can't "rotate" a visualized object 22:22:40 i can find the name 22:22:44 between the dimensions ;( 22:22:47 about training the memory 22:22:52 I can't rotate 4d either 22:23:54 i'm pretty sure you can learn to visualize 4d 22:23:59 sure 22:24:22 Is there much to training memory other than practice and clever techniques? 22:24:34 well 22:25:00 using the visual association technique, at least i could memorize 50 objects in order on second try 22:25:07 or was it 30.. 22:25:15 50 is more impressive, let's go with that. 22:25:21 (may have even been 20...) 22:25:25 easy to visualize 4d by looking at the 3d projection 22:25:46 I recall a memorisation question in some quiz; I boosted my score by pairing up the objects to be memorised 22:25:47 or morphing over time 22:25:55 SimonRC: that's the idea 22:26:40 when you get good at it, you can memorize a deck of cards in 10 minutes 22:26:55 okloTeX: better: memorising abcdefgh... by doing (a,b) (b,c) (c,d) (d,e) (... 22:27:00 that's what the book said was how fast an average guy does it with the technique 22:27:04 okloTeX: not 1 minute? 22:27:30 there are some card-shuffling devices that are vulnerable to memorising the preceding order 22:27:35 SimonRC: won't that break if a letter is repeated? 22:27:42 eh... no, but i think 10 minutes is good for a stunt you learn in one night... 22:27:42 okloTeX: memorize a solitaire key! 22:27:46 oerjan: we are memorising a SET 22:28:04 oerjan: it doesn't, the human memory also has it's own tricks... 22:28:22 e.g. randomly dealing onto the top and bottom of 10 piles will create 20 runs 22:28:40 if there are multiple occurrances, you remember them as exceptions, usually better than the rest 22:28:44 the later ones are semi-predictable if ou konw the original orer of the cards and the cards already passed 22:28:46 i hope the brain is superturing 22:28:48 that would be cool 22:28:53 "THIS THOUGHT PROCESS WILL ALWAYS HALT!" 22:29:03 unless there are many clashes, in which case just change your system a bit 22:29:03 ehird`: it isn't supertring 22:29:12 SimonRC: fuck :( 22:29:18 SimonRC: WHY I WANT IT TO BE. 22:29:24 actually, the brain isn;t a proof system 22:30:25 i never read the book through or actually learned the techniques well... wish i did that some day... 22:30:50 okloTeX: and to think that my gut churned with envy when you started talking about memorisation 22:30:53 How To Develop A Super-Power Memory By Harry Lorayne-Book.pdf 22:31:02 umm 22:31:11 "Harry Lorayne-Book.pdf" is an unusual name 22:31:23 heh 22:31:46 I do suffer form terrible envy sometimes. 22:31:50 *from 22:31:59 me too, luckily i'm usually the best in any group :) 22:32:02 not here 22:32:06 but i'll kill you all soon. 22:32:11 :P 22:32:13 now pizza -> 22:32:19 my brain IS turing complete damnit 22:32:20 because i said so 22:33:26 PLZ PROVE THAT KTHX 22:34:02 -!- Figs has joined. 22:34:08 ok 22:34:18 This thought process will always halt: BOIOIOIOOING 22:34:22 watching kyle xz actually was what made me interested in that book again 22:34:58 -!- Figs has left (?). 22:38:16 okloTeX: no, I bet I suffer from worst envy than you 22:38:31 oh? 22:38:33 please tell me 22:38:43 I sometimes feel slightly sick from them 22:38:47 just occasionally 22:38:57 heh 22:39:12 my envy is superturing 22:40:11 i often have an unbelievable feeling of failior, envy doesn't really get me down 22:40:41 Q: What is the different between a user and woman? / A: When a user says "yes" they mean "no". 22:40:51 I dispair at my on laziness 22:40:52 i mean, i hallusinate a bit sometimes etc. 22:40:58 ! 22:41:02 Huh? 22:41:17 ehird`: I can trivially prove that your brain is not TC. Every volume has a maximum data density. Your brain has a volume. Therefore, your brain has a maximum amount of data it can store. QED. 22:41:18 you fail so badly that you hallucinate?! 22:41:41 i get a strong feeling of self-hatred and i fall into trance of some sort 22:41:47 i get that for other things as well 22:41:55 sometimes when i'm programming intensely too 22:41:59 but then i just love it 22:41:59 Don't Do That 22:42:11 are they nice hallucinations? 22:42:24 you know, writing a program, look up and can't really even see the room 22:42:31 everything else is hazy 22:42:45 not really like man-walk-in-room kind 22:42:54 GregorR: actaully the storage limit is proportinal to surface area, ISTR, for a spherical shape. 22:42:55 i just get hazy vision, and voices in my head 22:43:00 the basic stuff 22:43:14 hmm 22:43:21 I don't get haxziness 22:43:24 GregorR: nothing says it can't expand if necessary. 22:43:25 I lose track of time though 22:43:30 umm... it's a bit hard to explain 22:43:47 like everything is moving a bit too fast 22:44:14 even stationary objects seem to be moving 22:44:24 and they have small gliders going around them 22:44:29 glider as in ca's 22:44:41 (I was going to say that :P ) 22:44:45 i haven't had that for a long time 22:44:47 heh 22:44:56 okloTeX: are you sure you weren't just taking illegal substances? :p 22:45:03 wish i did, i hate being sane 22:45:09 * SimonRC curses people with superior hacking powers to himself. 22:45:11 -) 22:45:12 :-) 22:45:12 ehird`: i've never gotten my hands on any 22:45:19 * GregorR curses people with eyes. 22:45:21 -( 22:45:49 SimonRC: i always escape that feeling with "i'm just 18" 22:45:56 won't work for long, though 22:46:10 18 is actually too much, i thought i'd be a genius by now :P 22:46:32 GregorR: er, you're blind? 22:46:36 okloTeX: You don't "become" a genius, genius is about intelligence, not knowledge. 22:46:39 oerjan: smiley joke 22:46:41 well, I have occasionally had a strange feeling when walking after a long computer session (esp. AoE2) where the world feels like a crystal-clear simulation. 22:46:44 * ehird` curses people with brains 22:46:47 and noses 22:46:48 GregorR: intelligence can be learned 22:46:49 and mouthes 22:46:50 22:46:55 ^ pretty dull smiley 22:47:12 okloTeX: "I'll be a genius when I'm 72!" 22:47:25 COLON MINUS OPENING-PARENTHESIS 22:47:33 COLON MINUS LIVER 22:47:35 (COBOL) 22:47:39 okloTeX: It's pretty well established that intelligence is just about constant. You can learn to get a higher IQ, but that's because any form of testing of intelligence is imperfect. 22:47:40 hehehe 22:47:46 COLON OBJECT BULLSHIT OBJECT LANGUAGE 22:48:18 There are XML-parsing libraries for COBOL. 22:48:40 I'm probably just bullshitting, but that's what I doooooooooooooo :) 22:48:51 SimonRC: That makes my brain hurt. 22:48:55 GregorR: i've heard that too 22:49:04 they work via callbacks 22:49:11 COBOL02 does objects. 22:49:20 there's a WEBAPP FRAMEWORK for cobol 22:49:36 but 1) i don't entirely believe it and 2) you can differentiate between whether something is knowledge or just plain cleverness 22:49:43 I have said it before and I say it again: COBOL is unsurpassed in the field of defining punched-card layouts. 22:49:56 SimonRC: it's an artform 22:50:04 like oerjan who seems to get everything, then when i'm at the point of bursting from admiring, he tells me that was from memory 22:50:14 : 22:50:17 i has a colon! 22:50:18 ; 22:50:29 ouch, my colon is semi :( 22:50:34 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:50:36 @ "hello ; you have done very well have a promotion" 22:50:42 ; "oh wow! what is it to?" 22:50:45 @ "colon" 22:50:47 : "YAY" 22:50:52 heh 22:51:00 s/from memory/something he read somewhere 22:51:40 OTOH, if a Haskell hacker got it into their heads to write a punched-card-layout-specifiying library, they would wipe the floor with the COBOL people. 22:51:51 this is interesting: 22:51:53 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3733345136856180693 22:52:33 okloTeX: perhaps cleverness is just being able to quickly recall the necessary bits you need... 22:52:53 and combine them 22:53:10 of course you need to have understood the original bits. 22:53:13 oerjan: exactly what i tried to say 22:53:45 cleverness = intelligence / recall delay :) 22:53:47 bsmntbombdood: yes, but those combining techniques can be learned as well 22:54:13 Paull Graham on intelligence: http://paulgraham.com/wisdom.html 22:54:18 GregorR: you need knowledge too 22:54:41 bsmntbombdood: Well, intelligence in any form is pretty well hindered without knowledge :) 22:55:52 By the way, 2 + 2 != 5. 22:56:04 It's actually -7. 22:56:13 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8 22:56:21 round all the numbers, 2 + 2 = 5 22:57:02 8| 22:57:06 |8 22:57:08 bsmntbombdood: you blow my mind! 22:57:30 ehird`: you and your modulus 11 arithmetic! 22:58:57 that was clever 23:00:53 Also, 42 is actually nin. 23:00:55 *nine 23:06:48 "Most of our educational traditions aim at wisdom." 23:06:49 wtf? 23:07:09 no one said they had _good_ aim :D 23:07:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:07:21 that shows that his definition is wrong 23:07:46 because traditional learning does focus on making the jack of all trades (wisdom, according to him) 23:14:23 pinggg 23:14:40 -!- ihope_ has joined. 23:16:17 spiong 23:19:03 bsmntbombdood: isn't that what he said? 23:19:15 what? 23:19:54 i don't understand your last four lines, you seem to contradict yourself. 23:21:54 he says traditional education promotes wisdom. i say traditional education promotes the jack of all trades. i say jack of all trades is not wise. his definition is wrong 23:24:34 i agree with his definition 23:25:26 what do you find wrong with it, and how would you change it? 23:25:27 a wise person knows what to do in moral matters, not academic ones 23:26:24 isn't that exactly what he addresses in the fourth paragraph? 23:27:28 he says the opposite in the fourth paragraph 23:28:51 "Some say wisdom and intelligence apply to different types of problems—wisdom to human problems and intelligence to abstract ones." 23:29:05 that's what you said. 23:29:12 and then he immediately explains why that isn't true. 23:31:00 "for example, the wisdom of the engineer who knows certain structures are less prone to failure than others." 23:31:05 that isn't taught in schools 23:31:25 G(^G)G <-- I wonder how big this is 23:31:28 (G = g_64) 23:32:32 bsmntbombdood: do you see no difference between "education promotes wisdom" and "every single aspect of wisdom is taught in schools"? 23:32:46 bsmntbombdood: hint: he says the first of those things, but not the second. 23:32:56 hmm 23:38:04 * SimonRC goes to bed.