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00:18:31 <Sgeo> Anyone use EsoAPI or PESOIX?
00:24:44 <Sgeo> Anyone use BFComp?
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00:24:49 <Sgeo> Hi importantshock
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00:26:18 * Sgeo is playing with BFC and PESOIX
00:27:36 <Sgeo> THat's not what I meant
00:27:46 <Sgeo> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html
00:28:22 <importantshock> i wrote my first interpreter for an esoteric language today!
00:28:56 <Sgeo> congratulations importantshock
00:31:34 <importantshock> and getting an accumulator to work properly was a Herculean task
00:32:31 <SimonRC> You might find that monad transformers help greatly
00:32:35 <lament> no, i agree, incrementing the accumulator is certainly harder in haskell than it ought to be for the purpose of implementing HQ9+
00:33:23 <importantshock> it's just a mind-bender wrapping my head around monads
00:33:41 <lament> I suppose you can just make a "lazy" implementation, that simply wouldn't increment the accumulator at all - that's in the spirit of haskell :)
00:34:31 <SimonRC> once you get monads you are above most programmers
00:34:36 <lament> or use IORefs, or use a StateT on top of IO
00:35:31 <lament> are you using Parsec to parse it? :)
00:36:14 <lament> you probably understand monads if you think parsec is awesome :)
00:36:58 <importantshock> believe me, i don't understand monads. i do understand how much better Parsec is than using regular expressions, though.
00:37:50 <lament> and how come you're not in #haskell?
00:37:54 <Sgeo> "1. If the PESOIX aware esotool has declared that it supports memory
00:37:54 <Sgeo> cells, the current cell will be set to NUL." ick, that makes writing this thing harder
00:40:09 <SimonRC> ISTR that Python has a library that is trivially equivalent to Parsec. Also C++.
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00:40:34 <SimonRC> although Python ++ circucular definition == pain
00:41:46 <lament> what is the python one called?
00:41:59 <SimonRC> I have the name arouns somewhere...
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00:52:15 <pikhq> Sgeo: PESOIX needs to be cleaned up. . . Near as I can tell, it requires much more access to interpreter state than I/O.
00:52:38 <pikhq> Also, an *interpreter* would be nice.
00:53:05 * Sgeo hates the alteration of memory
00:54:47 * pikhq proposes that the results of a PESOIX command shall be given on stdin. . .
00:55:29 <pikhq> Shall we call this room the International PESOIX 2 convention? :p
00:58:13 <Sgeo> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html needs more publicity
00:58:31 * Sgeo is writing a PESOIX library for BFC
00:59:06 <pikhq> That's a remarkably inefficient macro language.
00:59:26 <pikhq> PFUCK's BFC rendition was nearly a megabyte.
00:59:45 <pikhq> My Brainfuck->C compiler, now in PEBBLE.
01:01:01 <pikhq> The Practicle Esoteric Brainfuck-Based Language, Eh?
01:01:06 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php
01:01:14 <pikhq> I've only been working on it for, what, a year?
01:01:22 <pikhq> (and obsessively talking about it)
01:04:50 * Sgeo wonders if BFC code could easily be converted into PEBBLE
01:08:54 <Sgeo> I doubt it could be done the other way around.. PEBBLE is more expressive/powerful >.>
01:09:01 <Sgeo> s/is/seems to be/
01:11:16 <pikhq> Actually, the hard part would involve BFC's local variables. . .
01:11:49 <pikhq> PEBBLE, BTW, is to BFC as C is to C#. ;)
01:12:23 * Sgeo isn't aware of any "right" or "left" commands in BFC..
01:12:43 <Sgeo> I meant by a variable number
01:13:11 <Sgeo> Or do those commands only accept constants?
01:15:38 <pikhq> "right" and "left" only accept constants. . .
01:16:16 <pikhq> while condition {right 1} nets you a variable amount, just like '[>]'; does in BFC/BF polyglot.
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01:17:48 <Sgeo> Is it safe to say that [in PESOIX] 00h 00h will always be regular output 00h?
01:17:56 <Sgeo> Like in EsoAPI?
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01:18:09 <Sgeo> Or are dialects allwoed to change that?
01:23:44 <Sgeo> [wrt Select Dialect] "A return code indicating sucess or failure will be placed on the input
01:23:44 <Sgeo> channel, your application should read this value and respond
01:23:44 <Sgeo> appropriately."
01:24:39 <Sgeo> Return code 0 - PESOIX-SetDialect was successful
01:24:39 <Sgeo> Return code 1 - PESOIX-SetDialect failed
01:24:52 <Sgeo> hm, should I have the macro return those directly?
01:25:07 * Sgeo isn't even up to that yet though
01:30:17 <Sgeo> PESOIX specs for a PESOIX tool indicating that it does not support memory writes conflicts with non-PESOIX interpreters that might return 0 on first read.. e.g. EOF=0 and no input or something
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01:32:27 <Sgeo> Ok, wrote pesoix_init() and p_out()
01:40:06 <Sgeo> 00h 00h should be reserved in all dialects, IMO
01:55:02 <Sgeo> http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt some of those don't NEED PESOIX
01:55:28 * Sgeo will include a supplimentary BFC file to provide non-PESOIX versions of some of that stuff
01:57:02 * pikhq would like you to just write some PESOIX versions of PEBBLE macros. :p
01:57:36 <Sgeo> Be back laterish
01:58:51 <SimonRC> AOTAA: "AOTAA of the AOTTA AOTTA"
02:38:15 * Sgeo should also write a Python implementation of PESOIX while he's at it
02:40:59 <Sgeo> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/PESOIX
02:41:09 <Sgeo> http://jonripley.com/easel/
02:42:03 <Figs> http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332
02:42:21 <Figs> feedback always appreciated :)
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03:20:12 <Figs> this is a funny story on xkcd
03:20:14 <Figs> "When I was a lot younger, say about five or so, we went on vacation in Germany (we did a trip a few countries in western Europe), that is my mom and dad, my older brother, myself and my younger brother, who was about three.
03:20:14 <Figs> We go to a restaurant and everyone orders and then the waiter brings drinks or something (don't remember exactly what). So my dad says "Thank you", my mom says "thank you", my older brother does and me as well. However, my younger brother says "fuck you"."
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03:21:42 <Sgeo> Would a Python non-memory-altering PESOIX interpreter be appreciated?
03:22:45 <pikhq> Given that it'd be the first one ever, yes.
03:22:57 <Sgeo> first PESOIX interpreter ever?
03:23:18 * Sgeo 's code will probably be filled with WTFs though :/
03:25:02 <Figs> haven't you ever seen anything I've written? I'm gonna give DailyWTF a run for its money one of these days...
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04:18:37 * Sgeo unilaterally decides his PESOIX interpreter will have a semantic deviation from the current PESOIX spec
04:18:52 <Figs> this thread is epic
04:19:22 <pikhq> The current PESOIX spec is difficult to impossible.
04:19:41 * Sgeo simply wants 00h 00h to print NUL regardless of dialect
04:19:47 <Figs> isn't that ... appropriate for an esolang?
04:21:00 <Sgeo> Also, I don't have the sort of skill necessary for the PESOIX interpreter to ask the user upon each dangerous PESOIX operation :/
04:21:36 * Sgeo might have them enablable from switch, and have it ALWAYS write to stderr
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05:00:06 <Figs> you talk to him
05:00:14 <Figs> or use the training file
05:00:31 <Figs> it should autotrain if the file is detected
05:00:41 <Figs> otherwise just talk to him and he'll learn from you.'
05:13:46 <Sgeo> If I use Python's select.select, that would mean PESOIX couldn't run on Windows
05:13:54 <Sgeo> PESOIX would need POSIX >.>
05:27:57 <Sgeo> Next version of PESOIX should be called PESOX >.>
05:28:11 <Figs> http://www.physorg.com/news107109720.html
05:31:57 <Sgeo> In fact, I think I'm not going to implement PESOIX
05:32:01 <Sgeo> PESOX, here I come
05:32:08 <Sgeo> I need to sleep
05:32:17 <Figs> do what you will.
05:33:18 <Figs> I usually just talk to it for a few hours
05:33:21 <Figs> more fun that way
05:35:11 <rechercher> mmm, especially if you do megahal | espeak
05:37:58 <Figs> probably should disable type writter mode then...
05:38:37 * Sgeo HATES HATES HATES the idea of PESOIX writing to memory
05:39:02 <Figs> 'writing to memory'?
05:39:19 <Sgeo> I mean, I don't want to name something PESOX unless it's substantially different, but my ideas aren't PESOIX
05:39:39 <Sgeo> Figs, PESOIX can sometime write directly to a cell-based esolangs' cells
05:39:43 <Sgeo> e.g. Brainfuck
05:39:50 * Sgeo hates that idea
05:40:18 <Sgeo> It means that fewer esolangs will work with PESOIX
05:40:27 <Sgeo> to PESOIX's full capacity, I mean
05:40:57 <Figs> don't do it then?
05:41:02 <Sgeo> It also means that to add those features, I'd need to integrate PESOIX with the esolang's interpreter
05:41:16 <Figs> wouldn't you need to anyway?
05:41:32 <Sgeo> I can make a wrapper around an interpreter
05:41:36 <Sgeo> Treat it like a blackbox
05:41:48 <Sgeo> With me modifying stdin and sdtout
05:41:56 <Sgeo> Because that's how PESOIX communicates..
05:42:07 <Sgeo> when it isn't modifying memory
05:42:14 <Figs> then don't modify memory?
05:42:26 <pikhq> Thus what he's saying.
05:42:43 <Figs> I miss the problem.
05:43:02 <Sgeo> There are some things in the PESOIX spec that say "modify memory, or don't include this".. I want to include it, but via stdin/stdout
05:43:32 <Figs> then do something else?
05:44:05 * Sgeo was thinking PESOX, but that should really be for something really new, IMO
05:44:13 <Figs> call it PNP and really confuse people
05:44:23 <Figs> PNP's Not PESOIX...
05:44:57 <Figs> or better, call it PNP-PESOIX
05:45:09 <Figs> PNP's Not PESOIX - PESOIX
05:45:34 <Sgeo> PESOX is funny too *defending name*
05:45:58 * Figs gives Sgeo a pair of socks
05:47:07 <Figs> am I the only one who gets *really* embaressed by accidently unplugging the headphones?
05:47:18 <Figs> even when what comes out is perfectly legit?
05:51:15 <Sgeo> Semantic difference between PESOIX and PESOX: 00h 00h in PESOX is always print NUL
05:51:31 <Sgeo> PESOIX is the same, because both existant dialects do that, but there's a semantic difference
05:54:34 <pikhq> Just be sure to document your changes.
05:56:44 <Sgeo> PESOX will have versioning
05:57:05 <Sgeo> I only have a vague idea now, and it's time to go to sleep
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06:09:39 <Figs> hey Eidolos, have you seen jamendo.com?
06:11:26 <Figs> free legal music by independant artists :D]
06:11:38 <Figs> some of it is even good
06:12:19 <Figs> yeah, well, if you're a soon-to-be-college student in the US like me...
06:12:20 <bsmntbombdood> if it's not legal, they can put you in jail for 5 months, along with forcing you to use windows for the 5 months after that
06:12:43 <Figs> I already use windows... :S
06:14:09 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: As far as I'm concerned, that's cruel and unusual punishment.
06:14:10 * Figs drips windex on you
06:14:38 <bsmntbombdood> his internet connection is monitored, that's pretty cruel too
06:15:05 <pikhq> I'd probably set up a script to just show goatse to the log for those 5 months.
06:15:46 <oklokok> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/PESOIX <<< if this is the PESOIX spec, you people are seriously skilled at reading between then lines
06:17:10 * Figs mentions the word "piano" and tries to see if psychology has any merits...
06:17:39 <oklokok> i played guitar a bit the other day
06:17:57 <Figs> http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332
06:18:14 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: goatse may be considered obscene (illegal) in the US
06:19:03 <Figs> oklokok, take a look at my link :D
06:19:11 <bsmntbombdood> so you get hit with parole violation and transporting obscenity
06:19:18 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: The definition for obscenity is fairly loose.
06:19:41 <oklokok> http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt <<< oh, this is actually pretty cool
06:19:45 <Figs> considering a guy got put away for 10 years for selling lightbulbs...
06:19:53 <pikhq> And given that the goatse pic comes from an actual sold collection of porn pictures, it seems likely to me that it would not fit that definition.
06:20:36 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: in that case, it applies to prurient interest
06:21:08 <bsmntbombdood> it could be considered to depict excretory or sexual functions in an offensive way
06:21:20 <Figs> pikhq: And given that the goatse pic comes from an actual sold collection of porn pictures, it seems likely to me that it would not fit that definition. <- then wouldn't you be violating copyright law by illegally downloading porn?
06:21:33 <bsmntbombdood> and it could be said to lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value
06:21:59 <pikhq> The same applies to some of what passes for 'art' today.
06:22:00 <Figs> at first I though you just said "fuck you" :P
06:22:49 <Figs> bsmntbombdood: It has uh, historical value... uh, to the development of the internet... uh, yeah... really! :P
06:23:23 <bsmntbombdood> well, i'm going to go to sleep and dream of anal stretching and how its depictions relate to obscenity laws
06:23:49 <oklokok> http://www.answers.com/topic/p-emoticon-shouting?cat=technology <<< i'm pretty sure that's wrong, or at least an obsolete definition
06:23:54 <Figs> glad we could help to further *stretch* your imagination...
06:24:04 <Figs> *open* your mind...
06:24:08 <bsmntbombdood> i want a bumper sticker that says "i fap to goatse"
06:24:38 <Figs> where di you get your name bsmntbombdood?
06:24:45 <oklokok> people would yawn from all the old when they saw that
06:24:55 <Figs> "bull shit mountain bomb dude"?
06:25:33 <Figs> or did I totally misinterpret your name? :S
06:25:42 <Figs> well tell me later then ^.^
06:25:59 <Figs> oklokok, I just mistyped your name as "kolokoko"
06:26:27 <Figs> did you listen?
06:26:44 <oklokok> just scramble a few o's, k's and l's and you get pretty near.
06:28:11 * Figs sees he's getting to oklokok~!
06:28:22 <Figs> successful attack of the secret ninja man!
06:29:34 <oklokok> i opened your song link twice, but it's not open.
06:29:47 <Figs> http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332
06:34:11 <oklokok> blargh... can't hear a thing
06:35:18 <Figs> turn up your volume?
06:35:29 <oklokok> i was just listening to another mid :P
06:35:52 <oklokok> so... i'm pretty sure i have volume
06:35:53 <Figs> can you hear it at alll?
06:36:37 <Figs> works fine here, obviously :P
06:37:35 <oklokok> i imported it into guitar pro, and i got a score.
06:37:56 <oklokok> i see the notes, but it won't play xD
06:39:05 <Figs> I guess no one shall ever hear my song then
06:39:48 <oklokok> okay... made it into a gp4 song and reopened, i can hear it now!
06:43:34 <Figs> Any suggestions?
06:43:59 <oklokok> was afraid it'd turn out overly trivial at first, because of the basic chord pattern, but it quickly evolved and proved me wrong
06:50:22 <oklokok> can't say i do, the long chords are a bit ...i lose the word here
06:51:26 <oklokok> i don't see anything wrong with stopping a quick run in a long note, but it somewhat kills the "go" :P
06:51:39 <oklokok> i really seem to have forgotten all my vocabulary.
06:52:31 <oklokok> i mean... a chord you play for the whole bar
06:53:04 <oklokok> they work well when you do the prefixing ghost note... eh, i mean, the ti-dii xD
06:53:35 <Figs> time position?
06:53:36 <oklokok> this is very hard to explain without being able to sing what i mean.
06:53:52 <Figs> you can just give me time positions :D
06:54:10 <oklokok> i could, if i wasn't playing from guitar pro
06:55:08 <Figs> I see what you mean though
06:55:11 <oklokok> hmm... i'll have to retract that statement, there's nothing wrong with doing that, really
06:55:31 <Figs> I think I over-do it a bit though for a 1:12 song
06:56:21 <oklokok> what i'd do, is i'd make left play short low melodies when the chord stops
06:56:41 <Figs> hold on a second
06:57:20 <oklokok> well okay, i'd make it slash a few very low octaves in a rapid manner, but you do something less theatrical, merecommends :P
06:58:24 <oklokok> if you do the leftie melody, you get the stop, but the melody continues anyhow
06:58:27 <Figs> http://www.badongo.com/file/4140970
06:59:03 <Figs> similar to the later parts of this?
06:59:25 <oklokok> there was nothing wrong with that as it was, though, i just feel obligated to give a suggestion when asked.
06:59:41 <Figs> well, you're right though
06:59:46 <Figs> my piece doesn't flow too well
07:00:02 <Figs> it's like 'move move move stop.... move move move stop...."
07:00:28 <Figs> it's a problem caused by my use of 4-bar patterns
07:00:56 <oklokok> bar 20 is where it doesn't sound that good, i think all the other long bars work
07:01:38 <oklokok> and 36 might need some spicing up, since at that point you're kinda *going for the big final*
07:02:18 <oklokok> at the beginning it doesn't have to be that flowsome, since you're just introducing the theme
07:02:45 <Figs> what did you think of bar 8?
07:02:54 <oklokok> and i think you do the stops pretty well when the melody starts
07:04:06 <oklokok> it's fine stopping like that before starting a new theme
07:04:20 <Figs> the "ghost" thing you meant was bar 16 maybe?
07:04:22 <oklokok> plus, left hand makes it obvious there's a stop ahead
07:04:36 <oklokok> because of the... *oklokok sings what he means*
07:05:23 <oklokok> hmm... just play leftie in the beginning and you'll know what i mean
07:05:26 <Figs> there's a lot I could still do with this, actually
07:05:31 <Figs> especially since you pointed it out
07:05:48 <oklokok> the last rise into the chord makes it work, but i'll see about bar 16
07:06:12 <oklokok> 12 would be blunt if you didn't continue right away
07:06:35 <oklokok> and i think that somehow also justifies bar 16 being long
07:07:03 <oklokok> and yeah, the quick not before 16 is exactly something you might do when doing a long chord
07:07:30 <oklokok> but 16 might need a left-hand melody there or something, it might be a *bit* too long
07:08:00 <Figs> the issue is basically with the rhythm of the "cadences" (not sure if that term is meant to apply outside of chords, but meh, I'll use it)
07:08:30 <oklokok> 17-28 is your main problem area iyam
07:09:00 <Figs> do you like the rhythm of the non-stop areas in that?
07:10:19 <Figs> it's basically the first part repeated with the notes that fuck up the harmony removed
07:10:25 <Figs> I thought it sounded kind of cool
07:10:49 <Figs> I think I also shifted it down
07:11:50 <oklokok> i see what you mean by that, though i didn't know you'd generated the melody that wayt
07:12:02 <oklokok> and yeah, it sounds pretty cool
07:12:40 <oklokok> but i recall you having some more complex rhythms in a song sometime... don't remember where exactly
07:13:03 <Figs> I play with rhythm occasionally
07:14:30 <oklokok> i was thinking of making myself a game that generates melodies and you have to note up the melody
07:15:05 <Figs> you could sell it to music majors
07:15:15 <Figs> they have to do that stuff to get their degree
07:15:30 <oklokok> would be fun to make different melody generators, plus that'd be a much more natural way for me to improve my ear than making scores for existing songs
07:16:07 <Figs> there are some notes I can tell
07:16:10 <Figs> most I have no idea
07:16:16 <Figs> but G is one of them...
07:16:21 <Figs> when played on the midi pian
07:16:35 <oklokok> if you can find G, it's trivial finding the rest
07:16:41 <Figs> I can usually always tell the G above the treble cleff
07:17:05 <Figs> it wasn't the piano
07:17:09 <Figs> it was the vibraphone... :P
07:17:48 <oklokok> heh, i have the occasional skill of knowing what tone a key on my piano will produce, but that's it
07:17:59 <oklokok> the program wouldn't ask you for absolute noting
07:18:16 <oklokok> well i guess it could on harder levels or smth.
07:18:35 <Figs> well, that's basically what it is
07:18:44 <Figs> I just got used to particular notes my program makes
07:18:56 <Figs> I can't apply it to other instruments very well
07:19:50 <Figs> I think I could be relatively decent at playing things I've heard in the key of A minor
07:19:59 <Figs> with a bit of practice
07:21:50 <oklokok> if you play metal, i can usually memorize a piece on a few hearings and play it straight away
07:22:23 <oklokok> pop music is just as easy, but classic has too many details for that
07:24:55 <oklokok> (metal can have a lot of details too, i'm talking about the majority of cases where only the guitar solo is complex :))
07:28:16 <oklokok> you can't play guitar pro?
07:29:17 <Figs> play guitar pro? The program?
07:29:21 <Figs> I don't own it.
07:29:29 <Figs> and I can't play guitar :P
07:30:03 <oklokok> i'd've given you a few songs, if you'd had that
07:30:33 <Figs> I need to write a music editing program
07:40:10 <oklokok> ah, lament, you once recommended me to read "in search for lost time" or however it's called in english
07:40:40 <oklokok> it's a russian book, so i made the assumption you have something to do with the language or the country.
07:41:28 <oklokok> dunno if that's the only reason i had a feeling you know russian before you told me... guess my brain digs 'em up sooner or later, if there were other quotes.
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17:43:59 <Sgeo> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF_machine
17:44:10 * Sgeo thinks that maybe that could become part of PESOX
17:49:46 <Sgeo> My idea of a sort of improved PESOIX
17:53:37 <Sgeo> Is there anything that uses PESOIX out there?
17:53:52 <Sgeo> Because PESOX will be generally incompatible :/
17:58:56 <Sgeo> Does anything use EsoAPI?
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20:11:29 * Sgeo tries to stay focused on PESOX
20:31:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:42:03 * Sgeo makes output NUL be 0x00 0x00 0x00 instead of 0x00
20:42:09 <Sgeo> instead of 0x00 0x00
20:45:59 -!- keyn has quit ("kaerimashou").
20:46:34 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x00-0x03 will be reserved by PESOX :/
20:50:05 <Sgeo> Actually only 0x00 0x00-0x02
20:51:53 <Sgeo> hm, afaict, exit with 0 will be 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x03 0x00
20:52:25 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x02 0x00
20:52:31 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x03 0x00
20:52:42 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:52:51 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x02 0x00 - switch to domain 0
20:52:56 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x03 0x00 - exit(0)
20:55:52 <Sgeo> Make that: 0x00 0x01 0x00 - switch to domain 0
20:56:01 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x02 0x00 -exit(0)
21:00:15 * Sgeo goes to try to write a PESOX bf program
21:01:34 <Sgeo> .+++++++.-------.,[-]..,[-].+.-..++.--.
21:02:50 <Sgeo> 0x00 0x07 [init] 0x00 [majorver] <readin> 0x00 0x00 [minorver] <readin> 0x00 0x01 0x00 [domainswitch to 0x00] 0x00 0x02 0x00 [exit0]
21:05:17 <SimonRC> I would think that PEBBLE already has a library to handle PESOIX
21:09:20 * Sgeo hopes not, because so far PESOX is completely incompatible with EsoAPI and PESOIX
21:11:53 * Sgeo realizes that domain0 won't work.. *changes PESOX-System domain to 0x01*
21:12:17 <Sgeo> Actually, I don't even have that in the spec
21:12:21 <Sgeo> *changes it mentally*
21:20:18 <Sgeo> actually, I can use domain0
21:37:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:41:12 * Sgeo keeps working on PESOX
21:43:10 <Sgeo> "Please note that PESOX, as described here, is in no way whatsoever backwards compatible with either PESOIX or EsoAPI 1.0.. if there is enough demand, I might eventually try to figure out how to fix that.."
21:45:41 <SimonRC> I thought there was a versioning thingy...
21:45:57 <Sgeo> Within PESOX versions
22:02:33 <SimonRC> Sgeo: please do not choose a name that looks like a misprint for the name of an existing product in the same field.
22:03:35 <Sgeo> Would PSOX be ok?
22:03:48 <Sgeo> That was suggested by someone else
22:03:53 * Sgeo already forgot who
22:04:59 <Sgeo> It IS largely inspired by PESOIX though..
22:06:09 <SimonRC> no, wait, that sounds like a sockets library
22:06:31 <Sgeo> So PSOX is out?
22:07:06 <SimonRC> although something with a really contorted actronym would be good too
22:07:23 <Sgeo> Someone suggested PNP for PNP is Not PESOIX
22:07:38 <Sgeo> And then PNP-PESOIX
22:09:25 <SimonRC> Sgeo: what's your IRL name?
22:09:39 * Sgeo tries to avoid giving that out
22:11:05 <oerjan> SimonRC: it's Osama bin Laden, just don't tell anyone
22:12:10 <SimonRC> the famous one or a diferent one?
22:12:36 <oerjan> there is a different one?
22:20:37 <Sgeo> PSOX so far: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt
22:22:17 * Sgeo pokes SimonRC and oerjan
22:22:46 <ehird`> Sgeo: don't give anyone your name on the internet
22:22:49 <ehird`> you see, nobody has your name
22:22:53 <ehird`> your name is completely unique
22:22:55 <ehird`> and there is a secret website
22:23:02 <ehird`> where internet stalkers can find your address, picture, and phone number
22:23:06 <ehird`> just through your unique name
22:23:16 <SimonRC> actally that last bit is effectively true
22:23:34 <ehird`> not if you haven't posted your address, picture and phone number on the internet
22:23:49 <ehird`> well - you can get address+phone number if you've registered an unprotected domain
22:24:09 <Sgeo> Any comments on PSOX?
22:24:43 <SimonRC> I heard that people can get your address even if you have never posted it on the Internet.
22:25:07 <SimonRC> It's via a system called "Earth".
22:25:34 <SimonRC> Every address of anyone (AFAIK) is present on the Earth
22:27:11 * SimonRC thinks that "references" is a fun word to type on a qwerty keyboard
22:28:48 <Sgeo> No comments on PSOX?
22:32:49 <SimonRC> you just want to type refereferefereferefer...
22:33:54 <Sgeo> PSOX, people! PSOX!
22:37:59 <SimonRC> how many bytes are each $foo_VER
22:39:49 <Sgeo> Although the specs will include a way to specify, at any point, an arbitrary size number
22:41:12 <SimonRC> you can do such things UTF-style or BER-style
22:41:59 <SimonRC> the former is obvious, the latter means that "0xxx xxxx" == end-of-number, "1xxx xxxx" == number continues
22:42:44 <Sgeo> I understand the latter, but what's UTF?
22:43:34 <Sgeo> What does unicode have to do with arbitrary-size numbers?
22:44:53 <SimonRC> UTF is a way of encoding quite wide numbers so that the small ones fit in one byte, but there is still a way to encode the large ones
22:45:30 <SimonRC> UTF-8 maps 21-bit codepoints onto (strings of) 8-bit bytes
22:52:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:05 <SimonRC> existing 32-bit character sets?
23:03:53 <Sgeo> Any comments on the rest of the spec?
23:10:50 <SimonRC> what are the default namespace mappings?
23:11:01 <SimonRC> obviously you need 0 = system
23:21:23 <Sgeo> Well, considering I haven't defined other domains yet..
23:21:32 <Sgeo> There definately will be a File I/O
23:21:54 * Sgeo will probably start off with the functionality of Project Easel
23:22:18 <Sgeo> "Returns number of parameters passed to program on the
23:22:18 <Sgeo> command line." Maybe that should go into 0?
23:26:28 <SimonRC> make sure that you can fetch date and time together atomically
23:32:17 <Sgeo> How would that work?
23:33:10 <Sgeo> oO Project Easel doesn't have that, yet PSOX will =P
23:33:14 <SimonRC> to stop the day-change falling in-between
23:33:20 <SimonRC> lol: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Arsonade/ZorkTfrontcopy.jpg
23:44:44 * Sgeo wonders if he should really hold onto the idea of some domains (even domains) being premapped