00:30:43 lament: I'm rather on the fence about that book 00:33:51 that's better than "blech" :) 01:21:10 -!- ihope has joined. 01:24:26 pikhq, is pebble a language which compiles into brainfuck code? 01:24:34 immibis: Yeah. 01:24:52 also: did you mean 41177 chars WITHOUT optimization and 37324 WITH? 01:25:11 No. The "optimization" that I was experimenting with was ineffective. 01:25:45 overy 01:25:50 *very 01:26:09 does it eliminate '<>' and '+-' constructs and loops that never happen? 01:26:11 Unless I can get the *idea* to be effective, I'm sure as hell not committing. 01:26:23 eg +[,.][+++++++++.] 01:26:29 No, that's the effective one that's been in for 5 months or so. 01:26:48 What I was trying to do was rearrange the variable locations for size. 01:26:56 ok 01:27:09 I pondered a BF optimizer there for a moment. Now I know why I decided against it... 01:30:30 i don't think there's much optimization you can do that's not easy to do by hand 01:30:41 Depends on the program. 01:31:32 Something the size of LostKng.b? 01:32:23 I imagine that one's pretty big. 01:32:45 Yeah. 01:36:35 How big? 01:36:48 About a megabyte. 01:37:00 of brainfuck? 01:37:06 * pikhq nods 01:37:09 O.o 01:37:21 machine generated, i hope 01:37:28 It was written in BFBASIC. 01:53:16 * immibis gets ghosted 01:53:30 -!- immibis has quit ("If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments"). 01:53:43 -!- immibis has joined. 01:53:59 * immibis gets ghosted 01:54:03 or whatever you call it 01:54:05 * disconnected 01:54:55 bsmntbombdood: it may be easy to do certain bf optimizations by hand, but doing it by a computer program would be faster 01:58:53 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 02:11:02 and anyway, if you're using a meta-language that compiles into BF, it's best to have it manage as much of it's own internal optimization as possible, eh? 02:11:07 hey, gregor 02:11:29 Florp. 02:11:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:14:56 Fleep. 02:18:42 Been playing Super Paper Mario? :P 02:18:48 No. 02:18:55 Does Super Mario Bros. 3 come close? 02:20:48 GregorR-L: BTW, I've got an idea. . . 02:20:56 Damn. 02:20:58 :P 02:20:58 Do Not Put The Baby In The BlendTec Blender. 02:26:36 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to GregorR[Dead]. 02:26:56 ??? 02:27:37 dang 02:27:44 Who killed him? 02:27:45 You would have had to be in #d :P 02:27:47 Odin did. 02:28:08 Death by Norse God? 02:28:44 Yup 02:30:05 http://www.pastebin.ca/644975 02:30:58 LMAO 02:38:51 -!- GregorR[Dead] has changed nick to GregorR-L. 02:52:27 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 02:55:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:58:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 03:48:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:58:12 -!- immibis has quit ("Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"). 04:07:54 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("restarting X, brb"). 04:14:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:15:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:17:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:17:58 -!- calamari has joined. 04:25:38 * bsmntbombdood eats calamari 04:25:40 * bsmntbombdood gags 04:27:14 hi 04:27:42 you are really gross looking on the inside.. did you know that? 04:28:54 just wait untill my digestive juices get to work on you, then you'll be the gross one 04:29:21 You'll still be gross, just without commentors. 04:38:44 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 05:55:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gtg"). 06:04:02 -!- Shel2476 has joined. 06:18:10 -!- Shel2476 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:06:04 -!- Figs has joined. 07:06:06 hello 07:08:27 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:22:21 -!- Figs has left (?). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:12:11 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:13:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:28:21 -!- immibis has joined. 08:31:19 10^10 bots? 08:31:30 who set the topic? gaim won't show me. 08:31:36 -!- immibis has set topic: #esoteric. 08:31:38 oops 08:31:41 stupid gaim 08:32:22 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 08:33:07 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 3. NO BOTS! 4. Bring your bot. 5. bsmnt_bot is allowed, as is EgoBot. 6. toBogE is not allowed.. 08:33:41 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 09:10:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:10:47 Hi! 09:45:18 -!- immibis has left (?). 09:48:42 Anybody? 09:48:43 ramrod? 09:49:26 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:39:18 -!- jix has joined. 11:02:11 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:28:04 -!- asiekierka has quit. 12:29:03 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 12:29:10 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:30:44 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:31:05 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:37:43 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 12:38:07 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:39:46 -!- helios24 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:40:06 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:40:29 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:41:26 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:42:01 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:42:27 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:46:28 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:47:40 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:50:28 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:53:36 -!- helios24 has joined. 13:05:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:37:51 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 13:40:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:53:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:53:21 -!- jix has joined. 14:15:32 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 14:18:30 -!- jix has joined. 14:26:27 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:28:22 -!- jix has joined. 14:34:21 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:36:19 -!- jix has joined. 14:56:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:58:28 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:01:20 -!- jix has joined. 15:06:02 * SimonRC watches the first-poster youtube video 15:30:24 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:49:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:04:59 -!- xerxesv5 has joined. 16:06:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:18:01 -!- xerxesv5 has left (?). 16:42:15 -!- Blejdfizt has changed nick to Blejdfist. 17:03:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:10:45 RodgerTheGreat, you alive? 17:11:49 Hmm. Proof-checking is decidable, right? 17:12:14 I just came up with a problem 17:13:41 You might try solving the halting problem with a machine that tries out all possible proofs in order until one of them proves that the input halts or does not halt. 17:13:50 This seems possible. 17:14:32 Interestingly, the machine halts if and only if there is a proof. 17:14:44 So what does the machine do when given itself as input. 17:15:09 oops 17:15:19 ah, waitamo... 17:15:45 Ah, wait, it halts. 17:16:26 obviously 17:16:42 If it halts, then there is a trivial proof that it halts (the trace)... 17:16:52 erm 17:16:55 hmm, what about one with the halting-problem-paradox 17:17:03 well, it would have to be a quine-like construct, but yes 17:17:09 ehird`: I was coming to that 17:17:11 p(i) = if halts(p, i) loop_forever end 17:18:44 If the first part halts, then it must prove that the whole does not halt, then it will procede to indeed not halt. 17:19:11 so what does halts(p, p) return 17:19:18 translated to that language, that is 17:19:21 if the first part does not halt, then the whole will not halt, which means there is a proof that the whole does not halt, which means that the first part halts, which is a contradiction 17:19:28 right 17:19:31 but what does it actually say =) 17:19:37 huh? 17:19:41 fuck knows 17:19:46 oh 17:19:50 so you haven't actually coded it yet :) 17:19:53 probably that, but longer 17:20:01 it's simple enough to code... 17:20:12 but the runtime is, um, long 17:20:21 like, exponential in size of proof 17:20:53 yow 17:21:12 you just take an existing theorem prover, and write a wrapper that adds the axioms that define the machine 17:21:34 ehird`: assuming that the proof-checker is less than exponential 17:21:45 :/ 17:21:46 well, I can;t find the problem I thought was there 17:23:11 Oh, there is also the possibility that the machine does not halt but can't prove it. 17:24:51 but such things are hard to find, because there aren't many things we can show true without using a proof that the machine itself would find 17:24:55 hmm 17:25:37 This machine is good for all kinds of things. 17:26:32 For example, I think it shows that there is a Busy Beaver number that we cannot put an upper bound on. 17:27:47 If there were no such number, then the machine would be able to compute every Busy Beaver number, and thereby solve the Halting Problem. 17:29:03 (Note: BB numbers give you a time limit beyond which you can give up on a turing machine, thereby guaranteeing that you can solve the halting problem.) 17:29:29 Maybe I am missing something, 17:32:20 ESOTERIC LANGUAGE IDEA #647: hammerspace-based language 17:32:26 you can't access memory or whatever directly 17:32:30 just a "kind" of memory" 17:32:38 instead of "i want hammer #324575465", "i want a hammer" 17:38:01 isn't that how object oriented langs work 17:38:35 not really 17:38:36 i mean 17:38:39 instead of memory 17:38:41 you can say 17:38:50 "make a hammer" 17:38:54 but then you can't do something with THAT hammer 17:38:58 you can just say "i want a hammer" 17:39:04 and it'll give you a hammer; any hammer 17:39:49 so, not very helpful 17:40:20 are esoteric languages meant to be 17:40:24 not sure how that's different from the usual OO languages 17:40:31 Not even slightly usable. 17:41:42 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:43:48 -!- jix has joined. 18:12:31 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 18:13:26 -!- helios24 has joined. 19:07:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:07:55 Hi! 19:16:41 Sal'. 19:17:34 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:18:00 {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]} 19:33:32 no 19:33:39 what language is THAT 19:34:23 Glass. 19:34:53 Just an object-oriented RPN language, curtesy of Gregor. 19:39:39 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.01.15 19:45:29 !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]} 19:45:33 humph 19:53:34 Egobot's not here. 19:54:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:03:40 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:54 -!- jix has joined. 21:20:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 21:32:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:05:07 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 22:31:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:35:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:58:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:09:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:11:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 23:41:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to xor. 23:44:01 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 23:44:54 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has left (?).