00:24:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:24:57 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:42:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 03:58:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:55:43 -!- immibis has joined. 05:35:36 I DISRUPT SILENCE, RAWR. 05:35:42 EVIL! 05:35:46 I'm the first talker in 5.5 hours. 05:35:52 * Sukoshi` feels special. 05:35:53 Imagine that. 05:36:00 EVIL! 05:36:01 maybe 05:36:05 maybe GOOD! 05:36:08 maybe NEITHER! 05:36:17 Maybe we don't need no education? 05:36:20 * immibis wonders why he says crazy annoying things all the time 05:36:31 * immibis ain't not got no none a nothin' 05:36:41 I've been listening to _The Wall_. . . 05:36:46 For the past 3 days. 05:36:54 No, I *absolutely* don't obsess about music. XD 05:38:12 I'm talking because I'm attempting to not do my final paper. 05:38:19 While getting it done at the same time. 05:38:20 Ah. 05:38:31 Well, in *that* case, I've got a theory for you to prove. 05:38:43 -!- calamari has joined. 05:38:52 Hmm. . . 05:39:05 pikhq: http://chokoretto.livejournal.com/1462.html <-- From yesterday. 05:39:09 Prove that the halting problem can be solved on a Turing machine. 05:40:21 I have better things to waste my time on :P 05:40:42 (Like creating cellular automata that generate neural networks! :P) 05:40:52 cellular automate that generate neural networks? 05:40:55 you crazy? 05:40:58 * automata 05:41:08 If she does it, I will forever worship Sukoshi. 05:41:16 Aren't all of us crazy here somewhat, immibis ? 05:41:20 true 05:41:23 especially me 05:41:37 well, thats what i think lots of people in here think 05:41:49 Only EgoBot isn't insane. 05:41:52 * pikhq is crazier than all of you! 05:41:54 Because he's EgoBot. 05:41:58 And all of you are crazier than me! 05:42:02 what about toboge? 05:42:25 Toboge is Egobot with a goatee and a propensity for evil. 05:42:33 oh yeah 05:42:56 what about egobot? he can be programmed to spam, probably 05:43:38 !ps 05:43:44 except not when hes crashed 05:43:45 * it 05:43:47 * its 05:44:18 * immibis needs to recompile toboge to apply the latest bugfixes, but netbeans takes forever to load 05:44:34 Isn't Emacs good enough for you? :O 05:44:42 also: the main reason toboge has a propensity for evil is because he's controlled by me 05:44:45 Isn't Elisp good enough for you? 05:44:48 this is windows 05:44:54 wtf is elisp 05:44:55 Oh. 05:44:56 I run Emacs on Windows. 05:45:02 Well, in that case, I pity you. 05:45:22 immibis: Elisp is the Lisp variant that Emacs is written in. 05:45:26 netbeans can view the javadoc in source files, without generating html pages first. 05:45:33 (except, of course, for the Elisp interpreter in Emacs) 05:45:47 * immibis is loading netbeans 05:45:56 * immibis could be unresponsive for a while 05:45:57 Sorry, but Java sucks. 05:46:09 Basically Netbeans regenerates the HTML ? :P 05:46:09 i wrote about three bots in c++ 05:46:12 no 05:46:24 Or it does some other internal processing, *same* difference. 05:46:46 Online JavaDoc + W3Emacs works just as well. 05:46:50 type in, say, 'java.lang.Class' press Ctrl-Space, the latest javadoc will come up 05:46:58 netbeans has already loaded 05:47:02 Oh, like Slime, kind of. 05:47:04 strange 05:47:14 ctrl-space is also an autocomplete feature. 05:47:17 Yeah. 05:47:19 Tcl + comments works well for me. 05:47:20 which is accompanied by the javadoc thing. 05:47:38 Slime has that, plus Slime also fills in the parameter lists for you, and a whole bunch of other stuff, when playing with Common Lisp. 05:48:08 But it works with the *current* Lisp REPL, so if you add package namespaces/commands it will auto-complete for you based on that. 05:48:30 Plus it comes with a built-in inspector/debugger/frame-stepper :) 05:48:33 I just love Lisp :3 05:48:39 my first c++ bot was a tangled mess of spaghetti code that i couldn't decipher a bit later except enough to fork the other two - which are also tangled messes of spaghetti code 05:48:55 i have written a bot in bash 05:49:03 and probably in tcl once i learn it. 05:49:04 My CL bot is very nice. I otta rewrite it in Scheme when I have nothing better to do. 05:49:22 Fully modular. Including on the fly. 05:49:46 toboge is recompiled, i am closing netbeans and running it from the commandline, thats how slow netbeans is for me. 05:50:33 -!- toBogE has joined. 05:50:39 That's what you get for running bad IDEs. 05:50:44 When you could be using Emacs. 05:50:49 That's what you get for running IDEs. 05:51:03 Emacs isn't an IDE, it's an OS for a Lisp machine. :p 05:51:19 ? 05:51:20 No such factoid 05:51:35 * immibis should probably trash the 'no such factoid' message 05:52:05 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:52:08 Emacs is lovely. 05:52:36 my brainfuck-commands still don't work 05:52:47 Hah. 05:52:53 the idea is that you can write and alter commands in brainfuck, while toboge is running. 05:53:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:53:51 because i saved the commands to build\COMMAND.b but loaded them from build\Execer_COMMAND.b 05:53:56 which obviously doesn't work 05:56:09 !ctcp ACTION tests 05:56:12 oops 05:56:19 -!- toBogE has joined. 05:56:25 !ctcp ACTION tests 05:56:25 * toBogE tests 05:56:55 the command to create a new command in brainfuck is: !loadbfc NAME_NOT_CONTAINING_SPACES BRAINFUCK_PROGRAM 05:57:10 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:57:34 !bf +. 05:57:38 !ps 05:57:42 -!- toBogE has joined. 05:57:57 egobot crashed 05:57:59 !bf +. 05:58:00 05:58:11 toboge supports !bf though 05:58:18 Maybe you should change the prefixes? 05:58:24 !bf ++. 05:58:33 !loadbfc say ,[.,] 05:58:40 We've got a *lot* of bots in here on a regular basis. . . XD 05:58:41 !say I'm a bot! 05:58:41 I'm a bot! 05:58:56 speaking of bots, what happened to bsmnt_bot 05:58:57 ? 05:58:58 No such factoid 05:59:15 * immibis really needs to remove that message if he ever gets round to it 05:59:21 !bf +[>+.] 05:59:22 05:59:23 05:59:25 05:59:25 05:59:26 05:59:26 05:59:27 05:59:28 05:59:29 05:59:30 05:59:32 05:59:34 05:59:36 05:59:38 !bf +[>++.] 05:59:38 05:59:40 what's you do that for 05:59:40 05:59:42 05:59:44 05:59:46 05:59:48 05:59:49 you're printing an infinite number of ascii 1's 05:59:50 05:59:52 05:59:54 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:59:55 It's like crashing EgoBot all over again! 05:59:58 yep 06:00:03 What's the size of your cells? 06:00:03 except much much much more annoying 06:00:08 pikhq: :) 06:00:17 I'm laughing so hard I drooled on my homework :P 06:00:18 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:00:25 :) 06:00:26 !bf +[>++.] 06:00:31 I wanna see him spam himself out. 06:00:35 * immibis does it again 06:00:39 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:00:45 !bf -[<-.] 06:00:50 ;) 06:00:53 !bf is non-wrapping 06:01:01 use !bf8 for 8-bit wrapping brainfuck 06:01:01 Oh, well then. . . 06:01:06 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server"). 06:01:08 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:01:13 STOP THAT! 06:01:17 !bf -[<-.] 06:01:17 06:01:17 -!- cmeme has joined. 06:01:18 !bf +[.+] 06:01:18 06:01:19 06:01:20 06:01:21 06:01:22 06:01:23 06:01:25 06:01:27 06:01:29 06:01:31 06:01:33 06:01:35 06:01:37 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:01:44 :D 06:01:50 * immibis is going to keep toboge off this channel 06:01:51 I love this :D 06:01:58 or get toboge to ignore sukoshi 06:02:06 Or you can be like GregorR and fix the bugs :P 06:02:21 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:02:25 !bf +[.+] 06:02:25 06:02:26 06:02:28 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 06:02:29 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 06:02:29 06:02:32 06:02:32 06:02:33 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 06:02:33 Yes! 06:02:33 !raw ignore pikhq 06:02:34 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 06:02:36 06:02:38 06:02:42 06:02:44 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 06:02:46 you want the wrapping version. 06:02:46 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 06:02:48 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:02:56 No, I want every unicode char to be output. 06:02:56 * immibis imposes a time limit on brainfuck programs 06:03:04 only the lower 8 bits 06:03:06 Bad immibis. 06:03:08 are output 06:03:13 Doubly-bad. 06:03:29 * immibis keepas toboge off irc for a while 06:03:31 * keeps 06:03:55 :( 06:04:41 I had a perfect one ready too. 06:05:30 what? 06:05:46 what was it? 06:06:36 !bf +>+<[>[>+<-]>.] 06:06:41 Can I try it once? Pweez? 06:07:49 Hey! We should have an in-channel BF-competition! 06:07:54 yes 06:07:57 but egobots crashed 06:08:02 Remember that one BF variant GregorR made that you can run at the same time and crash each other? 06:08:09 Then reconnect toBogE ;) 06:08:09 fukyorbrane? 06:08:14 Yeah. 06:08:15 no 06:08:19 toboge is single-threaded 06:08:20 ;P 06:08:28 Why? 06:08:35 well, single-threaded plus however many threads irclib creates 06:08:37 good question 06:08:44 * immibis loads netbeans for the third time today 06:09:33 * immibis might even be able to implement FukYorBrane 06:09:39 * immibis probably won't though 06:09:53 Then go fukyorbrane :| 06:10:02 i love _The Wall_ 06:10:51 hmm...the original fukyoubrane spec has been deleted 06:11:02 ihope it doesn't get deleted from the esoteric file archive too 06:12:01 ihope thinks it will. 06:12:30 will get deleted? 06:12:32 uh oh 06:12:35 how can i mirror it? 06:12:45 No. I'm joking :P 06:12:52 Because you said ihope instead of I hope. 06:12:56 i know 06:12:59 pun intended 06:12:59 I don't think anyone will delete any of that stuff. 06:13:05 although ihope has nothing to do with it 06:14:31 i want a TRNG, so i'm going to hire 25 chinese kids to roll dice in my basement 06:15:06 trng? 06:15:12 what's a trng? 06:18:36 True Random Number Generator 06:20:10 ok. 06:20:13 lol 06:21:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:21:23 attach your computer to a motor of some sort which shakes 25 dice about in a big cup and attach a webcam, take a picture after shaking the dice, and compute a quick checksum of the pixels in the picture. 06:21:29 bsmntbombdood: Wouldn't it be better to just rely upon, say, a function of the average IQ in Congress? 06:21:30 that random enough? 06:21:44 After all, that seems to fluctuate as the wind blows. . . 06:21:47 the numbers might be too high or possibly too low. 06:21:56 immibis: but then i wouldn't have 25 chinese kids in my basement 06:22:00 exactly 06:22:02 thats the point 06:22:09 why do you want 25 chinese kids nyway? 06:22:13 what else could i use as my sex slaves then? 06:22:18 ! 06:22:19 bsmntbombdood: Hire 25 chinese kids as sex slaves. 06:22:30 Skip the middleman. Err. . . Purpose. 06:22:36 * immibis just found a new way to spell anyway - neway 06:27:03 * immibis needs a way to stop a java thread without using Thread.stop (it's deprecated) and without interrupting it (the interrupt would go unnoticed) and without setting a varible to indicate "it's time to stop now" (it would go unnoticed) 06:27:36 actually i might as well use thread.stop - how else 06:40:33 -!- calamari has joined. 06:43:45 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 06:46:06 RodgerTheGreat: Yeah, pretty much everybody is afraid of the avatar :P 06:46:13 RodgerTheGreat: Therefore, I'm keeping it. 06:47:25 What avatar? 06:49:43 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:49:54 -!- immibis has joined. 06:50:13 !ps 06:50:17 gregorr-l: egobot crashed 06:50:35 *shrugs* 06:50:37 Don't care. 06:50:48 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:51:11 -!- EgoBot has joined. 06:52:10 !bf +. 06:52:14 06:52:30 !bf +.+++. 06:52:32 06:53:21 !bf ++++[>+++<-]+[>++<-][.-] 06:53:38 Nice. 06:54:02 So uh. Where's the output? 06:54:05 that is meant to...output a \1, then a 15, then a zero? 06:54:10 !ps 06:54:12 1 immibis: ps 06:54:17 .... 06:54:20 there is no output 06:54:33 !bf ++++[>+++<-]>+[>++<-]>[.-] 06:54:36 06:54:45 !bf ++++[>+++<-]>+<[>++<-]>[.-] 06:54:47 Err, yeah. 06:54:48 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server"). 06:54:48 06:54:58 -!- cmeme has joined. 06:55:28 !bf ++++[>+++<-]>+[>++<-]>[.-] 06:55:30 06:55:43 where's ololobot? 07:01:07 !bf ++++[>++++<-][>++++++++++++++++<-]-[.-] 07:01:10 ~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"! 07:01:25 wtf bug 07:02:16 !ps 07:02:18 1 bsmntbombdood: ps 07:02:29 !ps a 07:02:32 1 bsmntbombdood: ps 07:04:34 bsmntbombdood: what's a bug? 07:05:02 the program displays every character from 0 to 255 in reverse order. 07:05:08 EgoBot sent me ~50 lines in pm "\x06\x05\x04\x01" 07:05:10 exactly 07:07:35 that happens for some reason 07:07:39 i tried it 07:28:33 ... 07:28:36 What's the bug? 07:29:43 gregorr-l: type !bf ++++[>++++<-][>++++++++++++++++<-]-[.-] 07:30:02 and you will get lots of private messages 07:30:04 isn't that a bug? 07:30:09 ... no. 07:30:12 ? 07:30:14 what is it then 07:30:15 EgoBot won't spam the channel. 07:30:18 ok 07:30:20 That's useless. . . Same as "+++[>++++<-]-[.-]" 07:30:20 So everything after the newline goes to you. 07:30:38 ok 07:30:40 Plus, it's 16-bit by default, FYI 07:31:04 so thats why you always get a private message when you print the ascii table 07:31:15 !bf +++[>++++<-]-[.-] 07:31:18 ~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"! 07:31:34 pikhq: thats also useless 07:31:39 same as "-[.-]" 07:31:59 why does it send you the part after the newline _multiple times_? 07:32:06 immibis: Not quite. 07:32:16 yes it is 07:32:22 well almost the same 07:32:29 "-[.-]" starts the loop at -1, rather than 11. 07:32:34 -[.-] doesn't set the next cell to 12 07:32:38 so does what you said 07:32:42 oops 07:33:14 what you said does the following: a) sets the second cell to 12 b) prints every character going backwards from -1 07:33:25 the missing > strikes again 07:33:33 !bf +++[>++++<-]>-[.-] 07:33:41 !p 07:33:42 !ps 07:33:44 Huh? 07:33:46 1 immibis: p 07:33:48 2 immibis: ps 07:36:09 the new multi-threaded toboge is coming online for testing 07:36:18 who votes it should stay off this channel until i've tested it 07:36:23 (probably everyone) 07:43:34 well it would be if i hadn't just found some stuff that needed fixing 07:56:34 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 07:58:05 * immibis announces.......multi-threaded toboge! 07:58:17 !ps for a list of processes, !kill to kill one 07:58:20 1 immibis: ps 07:58:30 also: !setprefix to change the prefix! 07:58:42 but only i know how to use it, though. 07:59:26 also !setprefix doesn't work yet 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:50 !bf >+++++[>++<-][+.>.<] 08:01:11 the missing > strikes yet again 08:01:12 Wait. Does it need CR/LF? 08:01:20 !bf >+++++[>++<-]<[+.>.<] 08:01:31 maybe not 08:01:41 -!- toBogE has joined. 08:01:42 I am the new, multi-threaded toboge! 08:01:51 !bf ++++[>+++<-]>+[>++<-]>[.-] 08:01:51 08:01:52 you can't crash me with infinite brainfuck loops! 08:01:52 08:01:54 08:02:02 !bf +[] 08:02:04 !irp test 08:02:04 test 08:02:05 !ps 08:02:05 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 5) 08:02:06 Huh? 08:02:06 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[] (Thread-ID 3) 08:02:08 1 immibis: bf 08:02:10 2 immibis: irp 08:02:12 3 immibis: ps 08:02:23 !setprefix T! 08:02:24 Huh? 08:02:26 !setprefix CT! 08:02:28 Huh? 08:02:32 T!ps 08:02:32 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 8) 08:02:33 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[] (Thread-ID 3) 08:02:41 !setprefix FT? 08:02:44 Huh? 08:02:50 ok, now T! is the command prefix 08:02:54 and T? is the factoid prefix 08:02:57 T?x 08:03:03 T?x 08:03:06 T!ps 08:03:07 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 9) 08:03:08 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[] (Thread-ID 3) 08:03:18 strange, i wonder why factoids aren't working 08:03:20 !bf >+++++[>++<-][+.>.<] 08:03:21 T?testtse 08:03:36 !bf >+++++[>++<-][+.>.<] 08:03:47 !ps 08:03:50 1 immibis: bf 08:03:52 2 immibis: ps 08:03:54 !kill 1 08:03:56 Process 1 killed. 08:03:57 !bf >+++++[>++<-][+.>.<] 08:04:09 !bf [,.] 08:04:10 you're not outputting anything 08:04:13 !ps 08:04:16 1 immibis: ps 08:04:20 I am outputting something. 08:04:24 no you're not 08:04:29 "...][..." 08:04:51 I'm storing \n in the next cell over, then begin a increasing increment and output cycle. 08:04:57 since loops only end when the current cell is zero, and only start when the current cell is nonzero, ][ always skips the second loop 08:05:15 !bf >+++++[>++<-]+[+.>.<] 08:05:18 >+++++[>++<-]+[.>.<+] 08:05:23 !bf >+++++[>++<-]+[.>.<+] 08:05:46 Yay. Continuous spamming \o/ 08:05:56 wtf. No spamming \?/ 08:05:59 !ps 08:06:01 1 immibis: ps 08:06:18 !bf >+++++[>++<-]+[+.>.<] 08:06:32 there it goes 08:06:53 wonder why you need the + before the .>. thank you 08:12:04 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:12:58 cd ~/music; ls 08:13:07 oops 08:19:56 toboge keeps getting ghosted 08:20:02 i will try running from the commandline 08:23:52 -!- toBogE has joined. 08:23:56 drat this connection 08:23:58 !ps 08:24:01 1 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 2) 08:26:39 test 08:27:12 !bf +[] 08:27:13 !bf +[] 08:27:13 !bf +[] 08:27:38 !bf +[>+] 08:27:38 Data pointer out of bounds 08:27:59 !bf < 08:28:15 !bf +[<+] 08:28:15 Data pointer out of bounds 08:28:59 !bf +[+.] 08:28:59 08:29:00 08:29:01 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 08:29:02 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 08:29:05 08:29:05 08:29:06 08:29:07 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 08:29:08 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 08:29:11 08:29:11 !ps 08:29:12 08:29:16 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 16) 08:29:17 !kill 1 08:29:18 08:29:20 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[+.] (Thread-ID 15) 08:29:22 >?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnop 08:29:24 qrstuvwxyz{|}~ 08:29:26 08:29:28 08:29:28 :P 08:29:36 it handles 16 bits internally 08:29:45 but it is and-ed with 255 when printing 08:29:51 makes sense 08:29:54 * 32 bits 08:29:56 not 16 08:30:04 so if you want 8-bit wraparound, use !bf8 08:30:30 is this a modified egobot? haven't really been following it 08:31:04 its an entirely different bot 08:31:32 written in java 08:31:33 ?toboge 08:31:34 toboge->toBogE 08:31:34 toBogE is a bot which can save and recall factoids, respond to what has been said, and execute code in a few esoteric programming languages. In short, toBogE is me! 08:31:45 !hel 08:31:47 !help 08:31:47 All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex 08:31:49 !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum 08:31:51 !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix !userlist 08:32:10 !kill is not shown, its handled differently to avoid the maximum-processes limit 08:34:39 !ctcp ACTION pings 08:34:39 * toBogE pings 08:35:31 btw, don't say !ctcp VERSION 08:35:35 you'll annoy a lot of people 08:41:32 !ctcp VERSIONN 08:42:07 only one N 08:45:09 !ctcp VERSION 08:45:22 especially me, i get all the replies forwarded to me 08:47:05 why am i the only person here on windows? 08:55:33 do not type /version #esoteric 09:14:31 !ps 09:14:31 1 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 28) 09:14:54 hmm 09:14:57 what happened to egobot 09:21:31 in fukyoubrane, can you uncommit your own program? 09:30:45 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:31:21 because i just wrote a very long fyb program (threads with asterisks at the end that do nothing and lots of redundancy and lots of bomb-defusing threads) 09:31:26 never mind, i have to go. 09:31:29 -!- immibis has quit ("If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you"). 09:31:47 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:50:43 Hm. Are there any interesting books out there on Cellular Automata? 09:53:31 ankos? 09:56:24 No, not ANKOS :P 09:56:30 Something with math in it. 10:07:00 pikhq: http://www.ce.unipr.it/pardis/CNN/cnn.html <-- Beat me to it. 10:28:23 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("custom quit messages --> xchat.org <-- hydrairc sucks"). 11:12:30 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:51:21 -!- test_ has joined. 11:54:04 haha langton's ants are clever, i put a few in a grid and they've set up seperate colonies and also created reusable walkways between them, so they work on a colony then travel to another, repeat 11:54:22 there's even crossroads whose directions change when an ant goes over them and everything 11:55:18 they're trying to join two colonies together now... 12:08:17 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:53:38 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:56:07 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:04:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:50:41 -!- oklofok has joined. 14:07:46 RodgerTheGreat: ChanServ gives a notice about the map when you join 14:07:57 -ChanServ- [#esoteric] Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Check out the esoteric programmers map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang 14:08:04 oh. cool 14:08:10 also, i can't join this channel 14:08:11 can't join #esoteric (auth'ed only (+r))! 14:08:39 haha- cakeprophet's expression is priceless 14:09:08 hehe 14:10:04 tokigun_ is korean? 14:11:44 argh- my photo upload progress is stuck at 90%! 14:12:51 ok, w00t. I have added myself 14:14:48 I'm that little speck on Michigan's upper peninsula 14:15:22 found 14:15:31 you have a lazy eye or a bad pic? 14:15:46 I don't have a lazy eye 14:16:03 your other spec looked kinda whitish 14:16:03 geez, I thought that was a decent enough photo. :/ 14:16:04 :P 14:16:08 sorry 14:16:09 :D 14:16:23 this is why I avoid putting photos of myself on the internet 14:16:27 ah 14:16:42 i looked at the big picture, it's clearly the window 14:17:06 ah, yes. Thumbnails sometimes suck 14:18:03 i'm pretty sure no one >5 is given glasses with one glass whitened 14:18:10 they get those pirate things 14:18:13 yarr! 14:18:27 (not sure what the right term is) 14:19:08 RodgerTheGreat: i think it's better if i comment seeing your picture by putting it down than by saying you look sexy in it 14:19:48 I can imagine that's a workable strategy 14:19:57 not all guys enjoy that 14:20:04 i mean, the latter one 14:21:33 heh 14:22:04 well, can't say girls like it either, if used extensively 14:22:55 I think that one mainly applies to girls on the internet, where people are known for being extremely creepy 14:23:20 obviously excluding "social networking" sites, which baffles me 14:25:03 people do not like it irl either 14:25:29 I think that's heavily dependent on context 14:26:03 if I walked up to a random girl and said "Hot damn, you is sexy", I'd probably get kicked in the balls 14:26:17 i do that often, most people like it 14:26:55 it's just if you are with a person for a time long enough for them to know your name, but not long enough to actually know who you are, stuff like that make you seem very creepy. 14:27:27 hm. interesting. 14:28:05 so what you're saying is that a compliment from someone with which you have mild familiarity is *more* disarming//creepy than a compliment from a total stranger? 14:28:15 there must be some psychological bias at work here. 14:28:53 well, most people will find a random comment on the street a fun surprise as long as it doesn't seem aggressive 14:29:04 and of course, if they aren't told it all the time 14:29:22 but you don't want to be near someone who's constantly oggling at you 14:30:05 * oklofok doesn't oggle constantly, but somewhat :) 14:30:13 it's possible that this also depends on the setting 14:30:24 girls up here at MTU tend to be rare and defensive 14:31:24 well, they are constantly surrounded by horny geeks 14:31:33 :) 14:31:43 that would be the exception i gave 14:31:50 although it remains to be seen if this is primarily due to low population percentage or the fact that virtually every non-crazy one is already in a relationship (these are linked factors) 14:33:03 on an unrelated note, this picture is awesome: http://i.somethingawful.com/u/acetone/07_26_07/07_26_07_update2.jpg 14:34:38 :P 14:59:04 i liked bsmntbombdood's pic 14:59:09 i mean, from earlier 15:00:53 he isn't on the frappr, is he? 15:02:15 hmm, i think not 15:02:22 there are very little pics there 15:02:26 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:02:53 that is actually the only picture one can obtain from me, unless my relative 15:03:30 (also, i've been on the paper a few times, but luckily no one knows my irl name) 15:03:41 (well, you can easily know my first name) 15:10:13 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 15:17:21 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:34:40 "To view this Frappr map, please upgrade to Flash Player 8 or higher!" Aw. 15:50:42 -!- calamari has joined. 16:24:42 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 16:30:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:57:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:28:57 -!- Izzy7 has quit ("No windows for this server"). 18:00:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:52:26 -!- jix has joined. 18:58:36 -!- sebbu has quit ("reboot"). 19:15:55 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 19:26:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:17:14 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:33:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 21:20:13 -!- jix has joined. 21:40:40 -!- Sukoshi` has left (?). 21:51:33 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:17:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:34:59 -!- goban has joined. 22:38:08 -!- goban has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:48:45 oklofok: what's my pic 22:50:46 bsmntbombdood: huh? pic? 22:50:57 i liked bsmntbombdood's pic 22:55:06 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/an_open_letter_to_microsoft.txt Thoughts? Things I could improve? 22:55:46 yes, wrap the lines 22:56:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:56:29 Know of a good program to do that for me? 22:56:37 fmt 22:56:45 /usr/bin/fmt 22:56:54 should be standard 22:57:03 great for invoking from vi 22:57:10 emacs 22:57:53 pikhq: You need lots of references. It should look like a Wikipedia article on crack. 22:57:57 ok, maybe not 22:58:44 mind you, within vim 1GgqG works just as well. 22:58:51 vim can do it automatically too 22:59:02 beat me to it 22:59:24 Reformatted. 22:59:59 aah, pretty 23:01:03 bsmntbombdood: the one with nothing 23:01:50 what good will ms releasing its code do? 23:02:15 Well, if they're going to claim to support open source, they ought to actually do so. 23:03:19 ms saying they are going to support foss is like ms saying they are going to support apple 23:04:10 * pikhq would at least like to see something like that start making the rounds. . . 23:06:34 bsmntbombdood: Office runs on OSX. 23:07:06 releasig code will help us decrypt fomats 23:07:30 there will also be loads of 0-day exploits 23:08:02 that does sound like a problem 23:09:25 heck, it sounds like such a big problem that Microsoft might get sued if they did it 23:11:41 (although they probably have somewhere in their user agreement that prohibits you from doing so) 23:15:20 I'm sure MS will tremble with fear at that letter 23:16:55 Sarcastic much? 23:16:59 yes, because ms have a track record of listening to their customers 23:17:01 and obeying their needs 23:17:07 very friendly company 23:30:10 When has MS EVER claimed to support F/OSS? 23:31:04 I'm fine with MS' policy towards F/OSS, they are a competitor, pure and simple. 23:31:17 It's Apple's policy that's godawful. 23:31:49 Apple's policy is "Act like we support F/OSS, consume lots of F/OSS, produce only the minimum that we have to to conform to the licenses, make proprietary software." 23:31:57 They're the ones who are actively hurting the F/OSS community. 23:33:24 Apple makes me love GPL for libs. 23:33:36 They claimed to support FOSS. . . Today. 23:33:46 Ohreally? :P 23:33:48 News I haven't heard. 23:34:24 URL? 23:34:56 http://www.microsoft.com/opensource/default.mspx 23:35:38 That URL makes me want to vomit. 23:35:49 * test_ wonders which is better: implement coroutines with threads, or implement threads with coroutines 23:35:52 the latter sounds nicer. 23:36:11 GregorR, Apple contribute more than you might think 23:36:58 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:37:11 test_: I can be convinced only with examples. 23:39:24 test_: wrong 23:39:27 thecorrect answer is: 23:39:43 implement both coroutines and threads using generalised continuations 23:39:56 SimonRC, threads with continuations ... I never thought of that 23:40:13 co-operative, naturally 23:40:33 how can you thread with continuations? 23:40:40 easy 23:40:53 the OS starts a thread using call/cc 23:41:15 co-operative threading is yucky 23:41:18 i am not fond of Yield() 23:41:33 the thread stores the continuation in aglobal variable, and whenever it needs to yield, it does call/cc on the continuation 23:41:36 i think a good tree would be: 23:41:38 coroutines 23:41:41 / \ 23:41:41 you can imagine the rest from there 23:41:45 threads continuations 23:41:48 no 23:41:57 continuations are the most general 23:42:05 but annoying to use for threads. 23:42:15 now if you show me how to thread non-cooperatively with continuations i'll be impressed. 23:42:29 continuations cannot be defined in terms of the other two 23:42:54 yes they can 23:43:00 no they can't 23:43:08 continuations can be defined with coroutines.. 23:43:19 test_: ok, every primitive routine checks a counter and yields if it has been long enough. 23:43:25 test_: no they can't 23:43:30 SimonRC, that's just a big hack 23:43:35 SimonRC, and errr... yes they can 23:43:38 test_: no they can't 23:43:43 this is going no-where 23:43:51 SimonRC, yes they can? :) 23:43:51 i don't understand how that's threading 23:43:59 it's co-operattive 23:44:26 co-operative threading is not worth calling threading imo 23:44:36 You can only call a co-routine once from any one of its states. once called, the state gets mutated into another state 23:44:38 its so simple and a real pain to use 23:44:51 continuations can be called as many times as you like 23:45:25 continuations can be called as many times as you like <-- no they can't. 23:45:47 yes they can 23:46:02 show me working code that does that 23:46:07 sgh 23:46:11 * SimonRC fiddles 23:46:18 oh ICBA 23:46:22 I don't think that's part of the general definition of continuations, though some may support that. 23:47:26 exactly 23:47:32 all continuation impls i know expire after one call 23:47:37 thus, coroutines implement them just fine 23:47:45 and threading fits nicely into coroutines too 23:47:52 not in Scheme 23:47:53 therefore, coroutines are king and should be the root! 23:47:59 oerjan, since when? 23:49:55 How about the ubiquitous non-determinism macros example in Scheme? 23:50:08 they require multi-use continuations 23:50:20 test_: scheme 23:50:52 bsmntbombdood, since when has scheme not expired them 23:50:56 since forever 23:51:01 odd 23:51:21 they are garbage collected when no longer referenced, of course 23:51:36 anyway, that isn't an earth shattering problem is it? you can still implement continuations easily with coroutines... 23:51:49 you can? 23:51:55 OTOH, the more you can pin down about the usage of continuations, the better you can optimise them 23:52:04 linearity is very handy to know 23:52:21 well, you can implement continuations by doing everything in continuation passing style 23:52:32 oerjan: ah, well... 23:52:41 oerjan: depends on your language 23:52:51 you need closures, of course 23:52:54 that fails for escape continuations 23:53:09 huh? 23:53:57 ok 23:53:59 hmm, is there a non-hacky way to define threading in CPS? 23:54:15 then you'd have something that's basically a coroutine, but different 23:54:24 what value do you set foo to so that (print (begin (foo) 1)) never prints the 1? 23:54:41 foo has to be an escape continuation 23:54:49 so escape continuation must be primitive 23:55:09 (i.e. it is a continuation which never returns) 23:55:21 no continuation ever returns 23:55:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:55:38 CPS means never returning 23:55:49 always passing on 23:55:55 (call/cc (lambda (cont) (let ((foo (lambda () (cont #f)))) (print (begin (foo) 1))))) 23:56:53 but i think coroutines (maybe enhanced) is the best thing to use as a base for continuations+threads 23:57:37 oerjan: ah, of course, "(print (begin (foo) 1))" isn;t in CPS 23:57:48 indeed 23:57:50 CPS requires that all the continuation calls be tail-calls 23:58:29 test_: argh! 23:58:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:58:46 test_: we just showed you that you can;t make continuations out of co-routines. 23:58:56 you >can< though 23:59:07 you haven't actually shown me proof that you can't 23:59:15 can you do this? http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/scheme/tutorial-dsitaram/t-y-scheme-Z-H-15.html 23:59:35 a co-routine cannot be "rewound" 23:59:42 it irreversibly mutates itself