< 1183593720 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It was an old joke. < 1183593761 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an old forum I used to go to, we had a joke going where returning values wasn't technically producing output. < 1183593769 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You had to actually print it out to do that.) < 1183593777 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I will some time soon. < 1183593790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'll you use to produce sound? < 1183593815 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept will be on the computer, of course. < 1183593856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, asm out straight into the port, PlaySound, ...? < 1183593891 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have to consider what language I want to write it in too. < 1183595180 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crainfuck! < 1183595702 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=fsinohno@222-154-159-211.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183596995 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183597933 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't invented a new language for a while < 1183597949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, me neither < 1183597959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been obsessed with oklotalk :=) < 1183599072 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to invent one eventually. < 1183600325 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that in the BBM cellular automaton that's apparently by Fredkin, every collision results in a delay of 2 steps. < 1183600467 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did one about a week ago < 1183600479 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you hope. < 1183600717 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also notice that if you're not careful, this can result in billiard balls breaking apart. < 1183601002 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttplug!?! < 1183601129 0 :cosmic_string!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183601612 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1183603189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a thing you use to prevent overflow < 1183603241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be underflow, rather? < 1183603244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should sleep now, my sleep cycles seem to be getting a bit weird < 1183603265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 4:42, i'm not really tired and i haven't drunk coffee at all :| < 1183603374 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think overflow, even though it is underflow < 1183603392 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/underflow/under/ < 1183603444 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just dialation < 1183603519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just for fun < 1183603543 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would assume it's the dialation that causes the fun, no? < 1183603574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess < 1183603581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fear of getting caught < 1183603584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's really big. < 1183603695 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully, by caught you don't mean capture < 1183603771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be bad? < 1183603794 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capture would require a trip to the ER < 1183603878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it getting caught < 1183603886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some people like nurses < 1183603954 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some way to meet a girl... < 1183603955 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1183604044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm laughing a bit too much now, perhaps i should sleep < 1183604069 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think laughing is well warranted < 1183604207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1183604220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still laughing < 1183604241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it'll wear off soon < 1183605148 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1183606033 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1183609592 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.little-gamers.com/comics/00001342.jpg < 1183609786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is relieved not to know that quote. < 1183609824 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?104383 < 1183609830 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i just ruined your sex life < 1183609925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are far too late for that. < 1183609967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my chances _might_ still be better than those two chatters. i don't know. < 1183609968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: future sex life < 1183610089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or late for that as well? < 1183610094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why am i not sleeping? < 1183610096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1183610117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only time will show. < 1183610154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do stuff like in that quote sometimes, when horny old guy start harrassing me < 1183610155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guys < 1183610182 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horny old guys harrass you? < 1183610204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, on big channels < 1183610285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like here, many of you harrass me in priv < 1183610300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shh! < 1183610302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE < 1183610307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1183610322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay. < 1183610372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wonder if i could stay awake the whole day < 1183610411 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without sleep the previous night? < 1183610423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i slept during the day < 1183610433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11-17 i think < 1183610435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps more < 1183611524 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night everyone < 1183611542 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183614288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183614542 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1088703709.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1183614926 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1183615032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1183620890 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1183622399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1183622400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1183622849 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.19.82.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183622940 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1183627972 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yays, i now have a working wireworld interpreter for QB4.5! < 1183633213 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting off now, gnight < 1183633258 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"[[STFU|Yes, I am willing to buy your product, Mr. Telemarketer.]]" < 1183641273 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.19.82.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183641359 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183642237 0 :helios24!n=helios@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183642506 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1183643618 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183643940 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183646145 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1183646158 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, guys < 1183646200 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1183646213 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it going, ihope? < 1183646223 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1183646272 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm probably going to get a wish in NetHack. < 1183646358 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm whipping up a BF interpreter that uses cells of size 26 and maps them to capital A-Z. I call it "cryptographic BF", because it makes implementing/cracking basic crypto algorithms simpler. < 1183646394 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully nobody will hit me with a trout for coming up with yet another bf variant. :[ < 1183646603 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits RodgerTheGreat with a tuna for coming up with yet another BF variant < 1183646627 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least that's a small improvement < 1183646765 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits RodgerTheGreat 999,998 more times! < 1183646886 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is operating in modulo 26 math. that's only 14 hits! < 1183647041 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1183647061 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does that every 26 Planck times < 1183647076 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's only once modulo 26. < 1183647658 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.228.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183647674 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : why don't you make a brainfuck implementation with variable modulo? Use the first cell for the modulo and the second for the beggining of the mapping. So normal brainfuck should be 256,0 while your implementation 26,'A' < 1183647701 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1183647790 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: interesting < 1183647867 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe use the first cell for the modulo and the next cell (a total of cells) for the mapping. < 1183647878 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can do some strange mappings. < 1183647887 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with scrambled characters. < 1183647891 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1183647962 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. that could potentially make certain cyphers very easy < 1183647990 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of those are good suggestions for a cryptographic BF implementation < 1183648012 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh- to retain normal BF functionality, I could store that data in "negative" cells. < 1183648030 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 could be modulo, and then -2 - -n+1 would be mappings < 1183648047 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have them *default* to 26 and A-Z for convenience < 1183648065 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap. < 1183648128 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for implementation convenience (so I can use a conventional array and not have to do messy recopies all the time) I can cap the modulo at some maximum. is 255 reasonable, or should I make it higher? < 1183648151 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it to 256... < 1183648166 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-255, you mean < 1183648187 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. 0 <= x mod 256 <= 255 < 1183648211 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language are you going to use? < 1183648255 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my instinct is to do it in Java, but I may force myself to write it in C, for practice < 1183648298 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1183648634 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183648645 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1183648649 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Tritonio < 1183648740 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1183648856 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1183648869 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@adsl-76-204-95-41.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183649055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a really easy way to dump stdin to a char array or something, or do I have to mess around with cin.getLine() ? < 1183649206 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, C++. I/O is less painful) < 1183650057 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-040-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183650433 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183650815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not want to save the _modulo_ in the first cell, after all it would redefine itself as 0. < 1183650840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modulo-1 would not work either, as it would wrap to 0 whenever you try to increase it. < 1183650888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo-2 could work. < 1183651340 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not going to enforce wrapping on negative cells. poof, problem solved < 1183652101 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183652246 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-35-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183652658 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1183652925 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1183652942 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-189-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183653624 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-13.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183654790 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1183656559 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1183656737 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1183658266 0 :Izak!n=Izak@unaffiliated/izak JOIN :#esoteric < 1183658436 0 :Keymaker!n=nobody@xdsl-237-87.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1183658464 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn... no kipple around. < 1183660390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Supper" < 1183660825 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1183662921 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a brainfuck interpreter writen in Zetaplex! It is actually the first program writen in Zetaplex. Note: This does not work anymore because the specification has changed, but most of it is correct and it could probably be fixed easily, its just not been tried yet." < 1183663136 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1183663311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm sure it will be fixed any time soon now. < 1183664489 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: noooo not c++ < 1183664496 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noooo not C < 1183664572 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, fread < 1183665094 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1183665099 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183665962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh. Just as I had a solution for Rodger. . . < 1183666145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cin.getLine.c_str < 1183666520 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a solution < 1183666523 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use C+ < 1183666525 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ < 1183666629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ actually isn't a horrible language. . . If used sanely. < 1183666644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although C is a good deal *cleaner* ;)) < 1183666644 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183666669 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't a horrible language...if you only use the C parts < 1183666723 0 :Izak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1183666779 0 :Izak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183666783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-' < 1183667378 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183669608 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1183670487 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1183670499 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1183670561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1183670572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:22 < RodgerTheGreat> is there a really easy way to dump stdin to a char array or something, or do I have to mess around < 1183670589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cin.getLine().c_str(); < 1183670600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should return a char * for you. < 1183670602 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1183670603 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1183670618 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's *exactly* what I want < 1183670626 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's null terminated? < 1183670701 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1183670865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1183670902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. . . < 1183670960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it might be wiser to do str_dup(cin.getLine().c_str());, since .c_str() just returns the char * that's part of the string object. . . < 1183671349 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :unscrabble < 1183671415 0 :unscrabble!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1183671996 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183672656 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183672683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183675156 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody knows where I can discuss things about software licencing? I want to make I licence to use in my programs. I do not like some point's in the GNU/GPL, I find it to strict. So i am trying to modify the MIT license to fit my needs. < 1183675794 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you find the GNU GPL too strict? < 1183675799 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1183676057 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: you could always go with my favorite license: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/ < 1183676301 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is strict in many ways. For example if you alter the code of a gpled program you have to note exactly what you changed and when. I don't like that kind of things. I like small and strightforward licenses. Of course GPL is good for projects like linux... < 1183676363 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the WTFPL is probably the most open document that could be legally considered a software license < 1183676387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you *read* the GPL? < 1183676403 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. In great detail < 1183676405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to note the changes, you just have to place them under the GPL. < 1183676409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to Tritonio. < 1183676425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to argue against the GPL, at *least* argue against what's in it. ;) < 1183676426 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came to the conclusion that it was far too viral for my taste < 1183676430 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1183676463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I, of course, disagree: I find that it's best property. < 1183676472 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.... < 1183676601 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The work must carry prominent notices stating that you modified < 1183676602 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it, and giving a relevant date." < 1183676668 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone the viral thing that RodgerTheGreat talked about < 1183676688 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you want to change the license of a program you wrote? < 1183676689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the whole, uh, point. < 1183676704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are the copyright holder, you just do it. < 1183676736 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this of course rapidly becomes fuzzy in a collaborative setting < 1183676743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use GPL'd bits and pieces, remove those pieces, so that you're not using someone else's GPL'd code. . . < 1183676785 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can I modify the MIT to allow only merging, republishing etc as freeware? < 1183676787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-copyleft.html < 1183676792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can. < 1183676796 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not open source necessarily) < 1183676821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it'd no longer be a free software license. . . < 1183676835 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read about GNU/GPL... I like it but not for my programs... < 1183676857 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well who cares if it will be FSF approved... ;-) < 1183676880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not free software, then I'm not using it. ;) < 1183676903 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to... < 1183676919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: does WTFPL let anyone change the license? < 1183676935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That's "doing what the fuck you want", isn't it? < 1183676957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183676958 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get one thing about the MIT licence... < 1183676959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1183676979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: Shoot. < 1183676996 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone takes some of my code and uses it in his program. He has to include my copyright and the permission notice. < 1183677008 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of including the permission notice? < 1183677025 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in order to do this, is there something I need to include other than iostream? -> "str_dup(cin.getLine().c_str());" < 1183677042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very little. < 1183677046 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the permission notice gives permission to people that recieved my program and my documentation. < 1183677048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: cstring < 1183677109 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if he includes just a piece of my code then the permission notice won't be for the people that download his program. < 1183677112 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it will < 1183677121 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift.cpp:6: error: 'struct std::istream' has no member named 'getLine' < 1183677122 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift.cpp:6: error: 'str_dup' was not declared in this scope < 1183677125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't be. < 1183677139 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why include it? < 1183677144 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION a son DUT Informatique < 1183677249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: what's DUT? < 1183677262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ought to be strdup. . . And getline, not getLine. < 1183677269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strdup is in < 1183677291 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, an french diploma in 2 years after the bac < 1183677308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: congratulations :) < 1183677328 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift.cpp:6: error: no matching function for call to 'std::basic_istream >::getline()' < 1183677480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try using C I/O functions. < 1183677491 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are? < 1183677532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pull up the libc info page. < 1183678792 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, RodgerTheGreat, can i send you the licence i have made? it's not finished of course. But I want some help... < 1183678817 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. paste a copy to http://nonlogic.org/dump < 1183678892 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1183675216.html < 1183678935 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that I will put the MIT disclaimer. < 1183678947 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i still want to expand 2. a bit. < 1183679036 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe is should change it to: "the resulting program and any future derivative programs" < 1183679392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you've got exactly what you complained about with the GPL. . . < 1183679431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you've made something that is, in some ways, more restrictive than the GPL. < 1183679493 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is straightforward... ;-) what is more restrictive? it even allows closed source programs... < 1183679551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only for freeware, however. < 1183679554 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ask that the resulting work will still be freeware. even if it is closed source. < 1183679563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL says *nothing* about cost. < 1183679573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does any free software license. < 1183679594 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want people profiting from my code. that's all. i don't care if they want to share the changes they made. < 1183679610 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can close the source. < 1183679616 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but provide their programs for free. < 1183679638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program's not open source, either. . . < 1183679643 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1183679680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Definition < 1183679702 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1183679711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Scratch that. < 1183679744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OSI definition doesn't specify jack about restricting the cost to be charged. < 1183679752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* open source, but not free. < 1183679783 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i don't see why it is not open source and free. < 1183679789 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why it isn't free? < 1183679803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I can't charge for it. < 1183679888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the software can be freely given away or sold", doesn't that imply you cannot restrict prizing? < 1183679889 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could charge for it it wouldn't be free either. < 1183679901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm. < 1183679904 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or" < 1183679921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: Free as in "free speech", not "free beer", thank you. < 1183679926 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so giving it is enough for calling it "open source" < 1183679941 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving it away* < 1183679968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that quote implies "freely sold" as well