00:00:24 <lament> oh wait, do you mean stupid or really dumb?
00:00:38 <bsmntbombdood> what's the difference
00:01:50 <oerjan> really dumb people don't know they are stupid, and nothing you do can make them understand it
00:02:06 <oerjan> that's my theory anyway
00:02:23 <bsmntbombdood> and just stupid people know they are stupid?
00:04:36 <lament> no, people who know they're stupid are smart.
00:04:59 <bsmntbombdood> you can still know you're stupid and be stupid
00:05:21 <erider> hehe
00:40:27 <bsmntbombdood> i can't seem to get fedex to send me boxes
00:41:39 <bsmntbombdood> they want some sort of account number
00:44:15 <bsmntbombdood> blargh they need a credit card
01:13:47 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl everyone
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04:28:12 <bsmntbombdood> i think we need to get rid of the sun
04:31:52 <pikhq> I think we need to get rid of the Big Blue Room.
04:31:56 <pikhq> It's just 100% broken.
04:32:11 <pikhq> I mean, the air conditioning is shot, so's the heater, and the roof leaks.
04:32:21 <oerjan> :D
04:33:04 <bsmntbombdood> absolutely
04:33:46 <pikhq> Also, the lighting's fucked up, and the decerator ought to be shot. . .
04:34:03 <pikhq> The whole "stars" theme is just too. . . Spacey.
04:34:18 <pikhq> :)
04:34:38 <oerjan> hey i like the "stars" theme.  Especially the moving parts.
04:34:54 <oerjan> what's a decerator?
04:35:17 <oerjan> ah.
04:35:27 <pikhq> A word that I don't know how to spell, for some odd reason.
04:35:42 * pikhq kicks himself; I spell perfectly, usually, and it's my own bloody language.
04:36:43 <oerjan> a decerator would be someone who removes horns, i guess
04:37:00 <oerjan> of rhinoceroses, perhaps
04:37:16 <oerjan> a nasty business.
04:37:28 <pikhq> Which is why he ought to be shot. :p
04:37:59 <oerjan> anyway _our_ lighting is working perfectly, though i guess it'll break down around autumn as usual.
04:39:38 <pikhq> Ours seems to turn off every 12 hours.
04:39:43 <pikhq> (or so)
04:40:57 <pikhq> (bloody Norwegian)
04:43:20 <oerjan> :D
04:44:04 <pikhq> Out of curiosity, are you north of the Arctic Circle?
04:44:08 <oerjan> no
04:44:12 <pikhq> Ah.
04:44:22 <pikhq> Well, then, it *should* break down at least once a day there.
04:44:23 <pikhq> ;)
04:44:49 <oerjan> well the sun goes into hiding, but it doesn't turn _that_ dark
04:46:28 <oerjan> especially when it's not cloudy (although it usually is)
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04:54:28 <pikhq> Odd.
04:54:47 <pikhq> The lighting here is always on the blink. . .
04:55:01 <pikhq> Although we do get this nice little emergency light. . .
04:55:17 <pikhq> Which seems to shut off once a month, and is useless when the humidity goes up.
04:55:20 <pikhq> ;)
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05:29:23 <oklopol> are there any real-time 4d games?
05:29:38 <oklopol> and how do you calculate spins in ping pong for example?
05:29:49 <oklopol> http://dagobah.biz/flash/CurveBall.swf -> 4d
05:29:53 <oklopol> :P
05:30:52 <oklopol> sound & color for 4th dimension
05:31:36 <oklopol> it's hard to know when exactly you ought to have the ball inside you if there's just color
05:31:51 <oklopol> the sound allows for a great way to do that
05:32:03 <oklopol> because of the bee-effect
05:32:26 <oklopol> like hZ440+hZ443 = chaos
05:34:02 <oklopol> i have no idea how a spin works physically... i actually learned a ball can _really_ change it's curve when i first played ping pong with a friend a bit over a year ago
05:34:35 <oklopol> before that i though it was a perception error or smth :)
05:35:54 <oklopol> we had to make a class in java for storing pictures in a test i had yesterday
05:36:31 <oklopol> my only comment was /** Reimplementing ArrayList using ArrayList */
05:36:37 <oklopol> except perhaps in finnish
05:36:48 <oklopol> don't remember
05:37:24 <pikhq> LMAO
05:37:38 <oklopol> i also wrote that.
05:37:44 <oklopol> not really, but i should'be
05:37:45 <oklopol> *ve
05:38:40 <oklopol> coffees ->
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05:42:16 <oklopol> and then i gave her a golden shower
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05:45:42 <boily> i just joined and first thing i see: `ant then i gave her a golden shower'
05:45:49 <boily> disgusting
05:46:39 <oklopol> yay, you're good at this game
05:47:10 <oerjan> just admit it, you were reading the logs and waiting for the perfect moment
05:47:16 <oklopol> though i guess i'm supposed to say something that might *not* be perverted in another context
05:47:30 <oklopol> well
05:47:31 <boily> sorry oerjan, i did not read the logs, truly
05:47:42 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure there's a context for everything.
05:47:47 <oerjan> actually you couldn't have
05:47:54 <oklopol> clogz
05:48:03 <oerjan> because that was the first disgusting thing oklopol said
05:48:18 <oklopol> usually i'm pretty clean
05:48:24 <oklopol> oerjan: spins? :)
05:48:38 <oerjan> spins are disgusting?
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05:49:16 <oklopol> yeah, but in a good way
05:49:24 <boily> i'm a little bit confused concerning what you are discussing
05:49:27 <boily> spins?
05:49:31 <oklopol> hmm
05:49:41 <oklopol> <oklopol> are there any real-time 4d games?
05:49:42 <oklopol> <oklopol> and how do you calculate spins in ping pong for example?
05:49:42 <oklopol> <oklopol> http://dagobah.biz/flash/CurveBall.swf -> 4d
05:49:48 <boily> 1oh
05:49:52 <boily> *oh
05:50:10 <oklopol> we were not discussing this
05:50:19 <oklopol> but we should be discussing it
05:51:33 <oklopol> hmm... guess i'll schmoogle or something
05:52:13 <oklopol> ah indeed
05:52:19 <oklopol> stupid angular momentums
05:52:57 <oklopol> i can't find anything about spins since spins have so many other physical schwimpies
05:54:02 <oklopol> why do i always run out of coffee
05:54:53 <oerjan> the little gnomes are stealing it
05:54:53 <oklopol> i need two joysticks, one just isn't enough
05:55:10 <oklopol> i could just have two mice and use them, but i'm not sure that'd feel right
05:55:16 <oklopol> since you always have just one mouse
05:55:22 <oklopol> _always_
05:55:47 <oerjan> you can have three, if they are blind
05:56:06 <oklopol> actually, 2 joysticks/mice allow 5 dimensions for ping pong
05:56:23 <oklopol> since you don't need one of the ... axes
05:56:36 <oklopol> axizors
05:58:19 <oklopol> but i'm not sure if i want to do 5d before my first 3d game :)
06:05:11 <oklopol> yay
06:05:18 <oklopol> #physics saved my life
06:06:34 <oerjan> right, if not for gravity we might all be floating dead in space now...
06:07:50 <oklopol> yes, exactly what i meant!
06:08:04 <oklopol> but, also, the channel
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11:30:53 <N0body> gonna sleep now, gnight everyone
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14:18:28 <ihope> "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"
14:18:44 <ihope> Let's make an esolang based on acronyms nobody would have guessed.
14:19:12 <ihope> I figured "USA" would have stood for "United States of America", not "Uniting and Strengthening America".
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16:22:16 * ihope stares at his description of the billiard ball model
16:22:38 * ihope scraps it and loads MCell to play with it
16:25:39 <oerjan> you made a new CA?
16:35:14 <SimonRC> would you say that ALPACA is an example of a useful esolang?
16:38:34 <pikhq> SimonRC: Very much so.
16:38:57 <pikhq> It's not *highly* useful, but it *is* useful for certain purposes.
16:39:14 <pikhq> (specifically, emulating cellular automata)
16:39:29 <pikhq> And it is, as you might imagine, trivial to prove Turing complete.
16:39:50 <pikhq> It can simulate Life. Life is Turing complete. QED.
16:43:16 <oerjan> although a CA more directly based on a TM would be easier than Life to understand the proof for.
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16:44:00 <pikhq> Not truie.
16:44:12 <pikhq> I understand one of the proofs by simulation.
16:44:25 <pikhq> Well. . . "Understand".
16:46:21 <oerjan> btw i have this little "ALPA" idea:  what would a language look like for which ALPACA was simply a library extension for CAs?
16:46:23 <SimonRC> damn my internet connection is slow today
16:46:51 <pikhq> Hmm.
16:47:04 <pikhq> Interesa.
16:48:35 <oerjan> it seems like most expressions in ALPACA are chains of method calls, simply concatenated.
16:49:24 <oerjan> so let a b be an abbrevation for the function \x -> x a b
16:50:00 <oerjan> (Haskell notation)
16:53:14 <oerjan> an object, when used as a function, simply applies its first argument back on the object itself.
16:54:40 <oerjan> and you never (at least in the subset ALPACA uses) give the object in a chain explicitly.
16:55:19 <oerjan> there are also operators like and/or.
16:56:59 <oerjan> and top-level declarations can take arguments that are either single expressions, or comma-separated lists.  The ALPACA-specific declarations could probably be macros.
16:57:52 <oerjan> (when the argument is a single expression it needs parentheses if it is more than one token)
16:58:57 <oerjan> that's about it so far.
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17:20:42 <lament> aw, what is it with people using C-like syntax for unrelated languages?
17:20:48 <lament> Bug("1", "Hello, World!");
17:20:49 <lament> Scuttle("1");
17:20:53 <lament> ugly!
17:24:29 <oerjan> that's not so specifically C - i think that goes back to Algol.
17:24:57 <lament> sure, doesn't matter
17:25:28 <lament> this would make sense if Bug and Scuttle were functions
17:25:57 <lament> but they really aren't
17:26:18 <lament> and the things in quotation marks aren't really strings either
17:26:49 <lament> he's just parroting the syntax without understanding the reasons behind it
17:27:25 <oerjan> well there is nothing wrong with doing a syntax that _looks_ vanilla but is actually deeply disturbed.
17:27:45 <lament> yes
17:27:48 <lament> certainly
17:28:01 <lament> but that's not the case here, either
17:29:13 <lament> the only motivation for the syntax i can think of is making the code seem confusingly C-like
17:29:33 <lament> but then everything would at least be in lowercase :)
17:30:33 <lament> no, i think in this case it's just somebody without much a clue creating a language
17:30:44 <lament> from the spec: "Semicolons must be used instead of newlines to terminate commands. Therefore, strings cannot contain semicolons."
17:31:13 <oerjan> it reminds me much more of Pascal.
17:31:50 <oerjan> but then the Algol syntax was as much default previously as C is now.
17:32:15 <oerjan> ok, _that_ is deeply disturbed.
17:32:41 <lament> yes, in another context it would be a clever joke :)
17:32:42 <oerjan> the poor guy's never heard of lexical analysis.
17:34:28 <oerjan> probably doesn't know how to make a proper recursive parser.
17:35:24 <oerjan> not that we want to chase away beginners, of course.
17:36:29 <lament> and kill them?
17:37:09 <lament> wait, we don't?
17:37:30 <oerjan> indeed not.  well, only if there is a food shortage.
17:37:48 <lament> that could be arranged!
17:42:51 <bsmntbombdood> you can eat me first
17:43:51 <lament> at least he does have a php interpreter for both his languages
17:46:32 <bsmntbombdood> Hypertext Preproccessor?
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17:47:30 <lament> the same.
17:48:56 * oerjan declares bsmntbombdood the official #esoteric emergency ration.
17:51:48 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder if i should go to this girl's birthday party
17:52:08 <bsmntbombdood> will i still have all of my body parts on the 24th?
17:52:42 <lament> do you need all of your body parts to go to a birthday party?
17:53:40 <bsmntbombdood> it wouldn't be much of a party without all of them
17:55:04 <lament> just leave most of them at home and show up as a head in a jar.
17:55:28 <bsmntbombdood> that may severly limit my mobility
17:56:39 <lament> on the other hand, it would be a great conversation starter
17:57:17 <lament> (speaking of which, wouldn't it be great to show up as a head in a jar to a high school reunion. Some grew up to be doctors, some grew up to be lawyers, I grew up to be a head in a jar)
17:57:23 * SimonRC plays the new Gerrymandering game.
17:58:10 <bsmntbombdood> does RSVP mean you have to call if you go or call if you can't go?
17:58:32 <SimonRC> yes
17:58:33 <lament> it means you have to reply.
17:58:47 <SimonRC> "Répondez s'il vous plait" IIRC
17:58:54 <SimonRC> "Please respond"
18:02:40 <bsmntbombdood> silly people, giving me all these crazy responsibilities
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18:02:52 <lament> like replying to invitations?
18:02:56 <lament> yeah, it's horrible.
18:03:00 <lament> just don't reply
18:03:04 <lament> and don't come
18:03:11 <lament> they'll get the point and never invite you again!
18:03:48 <bsmntbombdood> yay!
18:04:09 <bsmntbombdood> always with the great ideas
18:04:16 <bsmntbombdood> you should be my social coach
18:07:52 <lament> so
18:08:04 <lament> what exactly is the "Usability Unknown" category
18:08:40 <oerjan> it means we don't know how powerful they are
18:08:52 <lament> but that's Power Unknown.
18:09:25 <lament> the original rationale behind "usability" was that some non-TC languages seem to be more "useful for computation" than others
18:10:46 <oerjan> right
18:11:06 <lament> so, i marked HEX as a finite-state automaton; do i remove the usability unknown category?
18:11:11 <SimonRC> damn that is one heavily gerymandered district
18:11:16 <lament> it seems about as useful as Smetana
18:11:31 <lament> (all memory locations need to be explicitly created)
18:12:00 <oerjan> finite cell size?
18:12:09 <lament> oh, good point
18:12:41 <lament> right, good point, he doesn't specify
18:14:35 <lament> reference implementation has finite cell size
18:16:43 <oerjan> don't they always.  you have to abstract away a _little_ from implementation.
18:17:01 <bsmntbombdood> "It's 2002, and programming languages have almost caught up with 1958"
18:17:02 <lament> no, they don't always :)
18:17:45 <oerjan> that was a rhetorical question.
18:18:17 <lament> the oddest part is that in the version 1 of the specification the syntax was basic-like
18:18:44 <lament> BREED "foo" "bar" "*"
18:19:06 <lament> then he changed that to Breed("foo", "*", "bar");
18:20:11 <lament> he even changed the comment marker from ; to #
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19:02:02 <RodgerTheGreat> hello. What's been happening in #Esoteric today?
19:02:30 <lament> the black plague
19:02:42 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
19:02:53 * RodgerTheGreat covers his mouth with a handkerchief
19:11:53 <oerjan> brains... brains...
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19:32:00 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.alterati.com/blog/?p=615#more-615
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21:41:20 -!- ihope has set topic: The international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ - Here be cannibals. (Eat bsmntbombdood first.).
21:41:49 * ihope attempts to come up with a nice... picture/diagram thingy of the Feynman gate
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22:20:42 <bsmntbombdood> ~raw join #lispcafe
22:33:39 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #lispcafe :Like this?")
22:55:59 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("JOIN #lispcafe")
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22:57:02 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("JOIN #lispcafe")
22:57:51 <ihope> ~exec self.register_raw(r"\S+ PRIVMSG (%s) :%sexec (.*)" % ("#lispcafe", self.COMMAND_CHAR), self.do_exec)
23:35:59 * SimonRC curses NFS
23:38:01 <bsmntbombdood> write your own
23:39:14 <ihope> NFS?
23:39:40 <ihope> Something from scratch?
23:40:05 <ihope> Or NTFS?
23:40:16 <ihope> Or "Not for Steve", which doesn't make sense?
23:40:31 <ihope> "Not for Simon", which makes a tiny bit more sense?
23:42:42 <oerjan> National Fanatics Society
23:43:57 <bsmntbombdood> network filesystem
23:44:49 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: don't come here with your obvious lies.
23:45:27 <lament> NSWF?
23:45:29 <lament> er
23:45:31 <lament> NSFW?
23:47:31 <SimonRC> Networked Filesystem
23:47:48 <SimonRC> it thinks that certain files are in use when they aren't
23:48:12 <SimonRC> I can't move them either
23:48:40 <SimonRC> I can move the folder they're in, and I can use the evil smiley to emty them, but I can't delete the actual files
23:49:19 <oerjan> SimonRC: can't you move the actual files?
23:50:08 <SimonRC> no
23:50:54 <oerjan> ic.  move every other file into another directory, then rename the directories.
23:51:06 <SimonRC> yeah did that
23:51:20 <SimonRC> but how do I get rid of the actual file
23:51:52 <oerjan> if they're empty then they can just stay until reboot, can't they?
23:52:26 * oerjan hands SimonRC a broom and a carpet.
23:52:46 <SimonRC> I have rebooted many times
23:53:11 <SimonRC> and they still can't be deleted
23:53:30 <SimonRC> I don't know if the file server has been rebooted though
23:54:04 <oerjan> i would imagine that would be more important.
23:55:17 <SimonRC> "Dear ITS, please reboot Hudson.  Love Simon"
23:56:29 <bsmntbombdood> fucking a
23:56:52 <bsmntbombdood> my brother discovered he could unplug the phone line in his room and disconnect my internets
23:56:54 <SimonRC> ??
23:57:03 <SimonRC> and?
23:57:14 <bsmntbombdood> he is disconnecting my internets
23:57:37 <oerjan> this being a very little brother, i take?
23:57:52 <bsmntbombdood> he's 11
23:58:44 <oerjan> er, i forget, have you moved or are you going to?
23:58:56 <bsmntbombdood> i'm going to move
23:59:02 <bsmntbombdood> my parents are dragging it out
23:59:28 <oerjan> then the problem should hopefully solve itself.
23:59:57 <oerjan> i should point out i am an only child, so my expertise is minimal.