< 1181865789 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that AOL doesn't mail out copies of itself on 1 gig flash drives. I didn't have to buy disks for years < 1181865886 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1181871985 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181872997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1181872998 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1181873538 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181876403 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed.
< 1181877664 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1177693530.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1181879246 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1181881881 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WeeChat 0.2.4" < 1181884399 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=ieatyou@222-154-150-215.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1181885023 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181885916 0 :ajagucki!n=ajagucki@c-67-169-211-158.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181885950 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1181886740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1181887829 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1181887834 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1181888342 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1181894399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1181894400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1181894647 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@c-76-27-232-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181895342 0 :ajagucki!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1181898211 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1181898596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1181898631 0 :nooga!n=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1181903039 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey anyone has hacker's delight in PDF form? < 1181903414 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :N0body < 1181904100 0 :N0body!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1181906722 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go now, gnight < 1181906739 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hasta la Vista(R)" < 1181909273 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1181911724 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181911738 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1181912337 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181913158 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1181915669 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1181916788 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a quick show of hands, (and we're talking *actual* programming tasks here, not just esolang dev work), who prefers RPN, prefix and algebraic notation? Giving your reasons for each would be interesting if you choose to do so < 1181916846 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that phrasing is confusing, I'd like to know which of the three you find the easiest to work with and the best to use < 1181923121 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@190.48.15.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1181923775 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181926486 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds out an interesting thing about micro-optimisations...
< 1181926720 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried comparing (in C): "return (x << 3) + (x << 1);" with "return x * 10;"... < 1181926736 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally, they both produced the same code: < 1181926764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov eax, DWORD PTR _x$[esp-4] ; lea eax, DWORD PTR [eax+eax*4] ; add eax, eax ; < 1181926770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe! < 1181926779 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means (roughly): < 1181926783 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :register int t = x; < 1181926783 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t = (int)(t + (long*)t); /* pointer arithmetic does: t = 4*t + t */ < 1181926783 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t = t + t; < 1181926784 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return t; < 1181926806 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: the compiler knows far more about micro-optimisations than you do. < 1181926838 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(long*)t is 4t? < 1181926871 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't x86 have... things for multiplication? < 1181926935 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler evidentally thinks that bizarre trick is the best way to handle it. < 1181926974 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how pointer arithmetic works in C, right? < 1181927181 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The integer being added shifts the pointer by the given number of *objects* not bytes... < 1181927213 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so adding 1 to a (long*) will increase it by 4, assuming sizeof(long) == 4. < 1181927259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that (int)(t + (long*)t) is t*5. < 1181927723 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-100-83.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1181927746 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1181927813 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-237-005.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1181928159 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi * 2 < 1181928561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GCC compiles those two versions differently, btw (even if I force -mregparm=0 to approximate those solutions). First one to "movl 8(%rsp), %eax; leal (%rax,%rax), %edx; leal (%rdx, %rax, 8), %eax; ret" and the second one to "movl 8(%rsp), %eax; leal (%rax,%rax,4), %eax; addl %eax, %eax; ret". < 1181928625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes some sort of sense: the first one is a bit closer to the C version, since it does 2*x+8*x and not 2*(4*x+x). < 1181928692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with enough flags it'd generate identical code. < 1181929230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try -O as your flag. ;) < 1181929289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: In response to your hours-long poll: I prefer RPN for calculator usage, and prefix for coding. < 1181929307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although infix is also good for coding. < 1181929319 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1181929323 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer infix for everything. < 1181929331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math notation is the best! < 1181929341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Tcler and an HP calculator/dc user. ;) < 1181929373 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use RPN more if I had an 11c- I only have an HP12c, which isn't suitable for a lot of the math I do < 1181930021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually prefered XML, that would be circumfix i guess < 1181930057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to the question of whether lisp is really prefix < 1181930076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1181930084 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is, of course, sexfix! < 1181930116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp: the sexp fixated language < 1181930274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's variadic prefix. < 1181930345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Kayak, on the other hand, is clearly circumfix" < 1181931641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was with -O6. < 1181933124 0 :c|p!n=wil@unaffiliated/cp/x-000001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1181933511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lols a lot
< 1181933527 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know those supposed open-air puddles on Mars? < 1181933547 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out they cannot be water, for a simple reason. < 1181933555 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are on a fucking slope. < 1181933745 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1181933880 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the fact that there's a fizzie here and a fuzzie in another channel he's in
< 1181933887 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little weird, that. < 1181933894 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, confusing. Or something. < 1181934543 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1181935530 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that AC power was invented to make calculating power usage as difficult as possible: http://www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm
< 1181935552 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly < 1181935612 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear world government. Please invent an AC power standard for all our PCs and stuff to use. < 1181935615 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love SimonRC < 1181935620 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1181935626 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear world government. Please invent a DC power standard for all our PCs and stuff to use. < 1181935630 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love SimonRC < 1181935712 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even just a standard AC->DC adapter that worked with *everything* would do the trick pretty nicely < 1181935904 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google, Sun, and the like are experimenting with having just one big PSU per rack of machines. < 1181936055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good start < 1181936463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: What you got against 5v/12v? < 1181936581 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, why? < 1181936604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's the DC standard. < 1181938653 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-229.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1181939318 0 :c|p!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1181939783 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1181939793 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1181940501 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? I have yet to see anywhere with such sockets on the wall. (I was referring to DC *sockets*.) < 1181940542 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds a category to Wikipedia: Categories that do not contain themselves.
< 1181940715 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1181940768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1181940788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds that page to itself
< 1181940792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paradox! Yay! < 1181942937 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1181943654 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category: Paradoxical categories < 1181943659 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/: /:/ < 1181944765 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1181946687 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"need.... more..... volts......" < 1181949761 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@adsl-76-204-95-41.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1181951705 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1181951972 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric