00:04:51 oh 00:05:48 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:07:07 if g is a function that is a linear combination of u^n*f^('n)(u) terms, and l are the coefficients, then dL l is the list of coefficients for g' 00:07:33 (u=exp(-x)) 00:08:14 dLn n then calculates the list of coefficients for d^n(f(u))/dx^n 00:09:51 and f1 n = d^n(f(u))/dx^n | x=0 00:10:24 (f(u)=1/(1+u)) 00:13:06 maybe this series expansion isn't the best way to go 00:13:52 well the best way to go is obviously the one you ruled out at the outset :) 00:15:40 not a possibility 00:17:16 the second best is to cheat by using exp(log(a)+pi) or something 00:18:32 perhaps something with hyperbolic functions... 00:19:11 maybe combining the taylor serieses for log(x+1) and exp(x) 00:20:09 um, then you are calculating exp(x). 00:20:21 only sort of 00:20:59 this is all for a floating point library without floating point 00:21:38 x will be stored as log(x) in fixed point 00:22:45 and, i need log(x+1) so i can add 00:25:50 If working by hand, I would make some tables. 00:26:11 I think you could abbreviate them quite well 00:28:25 aah, figured out the series for the denomiators 00:28:38 for log(exp(x) + a) 00:28:58 they are n!*(a+1)**n 00:29:38 yuk 00:33:24 that's pretty useless, i can't figure out the pattern in the numerators to go with it 00:36:31 if you do f(u) = 1/(1+a*u), you can at least do the same as in the haskell program 00:36:57 http://pastebin.ca/514883 00:36:59 just replace f1 00:50:50 the roof is on fire. 00:51:20 ? 00:51:26 no reason. 00:51:43 random channel, random words. 00:52:00 no arms, no biscuit 00:52:21 i've got school in 5 hours 00:52:23 math test 00:52:28 about integratiion 00:52:30 *i 00:52:39 we don't kneed know water let the motherfucker burn? 00:52:56 i can't sleep and i don't have a clue about integration 00:53:08 bsmntbombdood: my thoughts exactly 00:53:23 except for 'know' 00:53:43 what about "kneed"? 00:53:54 that i did not notice. 00:54:01 i blame the time 00:54:28 i bet you know enough about integration to pass the test, assuming high school 00:54:39 i do, true 00:54:57 i passed the advanced integration course already 00:55:03 last year 00:55:08 got the worst grade though 00:55:13 worst passing grade 00:55:34 but i'll prolly fall asleep on the test or sleep over it 00:56:55 i bet you know enough about integration to pass the test, assuming high school <<< how can you possibly assume that= 00:56:55 ? 00:57:05 ? 00:57:54 oklopol: I'd help you with integration, but 5 hours? 00:58:12 i know the basics... just never really integrated anything 00:58:25 i did my first integrals in the advanced integration test 00:58:43 and... helped a friend integrate something half a year ago 00:59:25 we can have all the formulas in the test... but i've lost the book they're in 01:00:25 i also have no idea about where my calculator is... since i've only used it for programmin "pong" and a snake game 01:00:34 hmm 01:00:36 You're screwed. 01:00:46 that's a weird reason 01:00:49 You should've learnt integration a few weeks ago, at least. 01:01:08 i read some examples from my math book 01:01:11 seemed trivial 01:01:28 You're still screwed. 01:01:35 perhaps, perhaps 01:02:11 i might remember something, i've been awake on _some_ lessons 01:02:23 * oklopol looks for his calculator now 01:04:35 i don't remember when i last found anything by looking for it... guess it's no use 01:06:26 school is too hard :< 01:07:02 i also have no idea where my bus card is... so i pay 5 euros to be able to fail a test 01:07:17 whine whine, i'll search some more 01:10:36 my java program was failed at the university :) 01:10:52 apparently my documentation was no good 01:11:24 that sort of thing matters in the real world 01:11:41 yeah, i hate the real world 01:12:51 i had about 15 pages of documentation, the problem was i used too much finglish 01:13:17 and i referred to other parts of the documentation instead of copy pasting 01:15:17 perhaps i'll just watch futurama and drink coffe for a few hours and forget my troubles 01:15:20 *coffee 01:32:26 aren't you supposed to drink liquor to forget your troubles 01:35:57 i don't have any, and i'm actually going to go to the test, 01:45:46 -!- jix__ has joined. 01:45:52 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:45:54 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 02:46:44 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:50:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:18:58 -!- Pikhq has joined. 03:38:37 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 03:41:16 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 03:41:32 Blah blah bleh wobble wobble wipp mottleblaff morklebam. 03:54:57 Now you know how I feel. 03:55:38 oklopol: 2 hours! 03:56:33 oklopol: My brain is not available for donation.' 03:57:14 you can borrow GregorR-L's though 03:57:33 GregorR-L: Any good at calculus? 03:57:51 lambda calculus! 03:58:07 Mildly. 03:58:13 's been a while. 03:58:26 It's been a few weeks since I had my calc final. 03:58:41 (and, therefore, it's still not up for recall. Won't be for another month or so) 03:59:39 ooh, i crashed maxima 04:23:26 -!- ihope has joined. 04:40:28 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 04:42:13 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 04:47:13 zzzzzzzzz 04:53:49 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:00:53 mörning 05:02:08 i feel so refreshened, i'm pretty sure it compensates my having no calculator 05:02:28 whereas sentence is that to be 05:02:39 *for 05:02:54 you slept for just a few hours and you feel refreshened? 05:03:03 yes, for now 05:03:27 i'm pretty sure i'll zombify in a few hours 05:03:45 Must ... resist ... urge ... to post zombie picture ... 05:04:19 okay, now where do calculators like spending time at? 05:04:21 * bsmntbombdood is artifieing some toast 05:06:03 They like spending time in the parser and the lexer. 05:07:48 almost tripped on my math book and found it 05:07:58 now if i could just trip on the calculator too... 05:08:27 (walking here is constant tripping without the lights on) 05:11:06 wow, i found a pen :D 05:11:19 hmm... hope i can still write keyboardlessly 05:12:16 the tests are on 6 week intervals, plenty of time to forget 05:13:27 that fucking K has almost all advantages of oklotalk... how dare it 05:13:50 except for my unbelievable object system, which is not yet fully created 05:15:14 i can't believe it 05:16:21 you better 05:16:30 because it's the grim truth 05:17:25 in most cases, oklotalk loses by a few characters :< 05:18:15 my operators are so overloaded, that oklotalk squeezes everything tighter, but right-to-left just seems to solve everything with less parens 05:18:55 plus, K differentiates between high-order functions and normal ones, which means oklotalk needs quoting 05:20:23 these two things aren't problems with longer programs of course, because naming a variable removes the need for quoting (for unbelievable reasons.) and evaluation order can be changed in O(1) characters 05:21:17 once again, i managed to fail deduction... K differentiates -> it needs no quoting, oklotalk does not -> it does need quoting 05:21:52 at least i think K does that, i assumed it did not have first-class functions... and was wrong 05:23:03 AND WHY ARE FUNCTIONS DEFINED BY ASSIGNING LAMBDAS TO VARIABLES IN PLOF AND K... THAT WAS ORIGINALLY MY IDEA, THEY STOLE IT 05:23:24 (press any key to continue monologue...) 05:23:37 fuck! school ----------> 05:23:45 ........................ 05:23:47 WTF 05:24:02 oklopol: Plof predates your language. 05:24:05 wtf wtf? 05:24:10 yes yes, i know 05:24:14 i'm never serious. 05:24:27 And Lisp, which does the same thing, predates you. :p 05:24:30 K predates plof by about 10 years 05:24:45 common lisp does not do that 05:24:48 scheme predates K by 1975 05:24:50 only lisp i know 05:24:58 yes yes, as i said, i'm aware of all this 05:25:06 I never stated which one. 05:25:12 in fact, i'm aware of pretty much everything 05:25:19 Really? 05:25:24 yes yes, sure sure 05:25:28 now school! -------> 05:25:48 Tell me, exactly how fast is PFUCK when compiled with my current PEBBLE build? 05:26:12 plus, i wouldn't count on plof predating my language 05:27:20 though mine was just a vague idea for the first years 05:27:24 *year 05:27:26 http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/toast_foo.jpg 05:27:52 oklopol: It only exists once more than one person know about it. 05:29:15 * Pikhq stands at PFUCK, damned impressed. . . 05:29:23 that, actually, was one of my predicates for existance when i once started wondering whether i've ever had a girlfriend 05:29:27 It compiles LostKng.b. . . In 0.217 seconds. 05:29:39 ...turns out i had had her, based on exactly that 05:29:53 ------------> 05:31:39 http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/toast_foo_small.jpg 05:32:46 1261% improvement in speed? I think I can accept that. 05:53:31 Let me bring to you, the new, the shiny, the renamed! 05:53:42 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble-1.0-preview.tar.bz2 05:53:51 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck-1.0.tar.bz2 05:55:05 (I still need a test suite and figure out what the Makefile should look like before I make pebble a 1.0 release) 05:55:31 (. . . and update the documentation (pulled out of the tarball, under the theory that erroneous documentation is worse than none)) 06:01:17 Don't all scream like fangirls at once, now. 06:09:15 -!- SuperAussieEvil has joined. 06:09:41 SuperAussieEvil shalt play with the newly renamed, newly release PEBBLE and PFUCK. 06:09:49 s/release/released/ 06:11:05 . . . Not going to respond? 06:11:17 Are you one of those "Op me for I am the bot" dealyhoos? 06:11:23 Nope. 06:11:30 Just a coder. 06:11:53 Who just released new builds of what were once BFM and Basm. 06:12:04 Ah. 06:12:23 No, I do my coding with refridgerator magnets and a laser pointer. 06:12:56 I do mine with a compiler which takes PEBBLE code and either outputs C, outputs Brainfuck, or interprets it. 06:13:25 I'm more into my idea. 06:13:34 But mine's faster. 06:14:00 Creating a language where you need a reference book to find out what simple numbers are. 06:14:25 That'd be Brainfuck. 06:14:35 Don't need it for Pebble, though. 06:14:50 Just a call to something in ^stdcons.bfm, and you're on your way. 06:18:14 ... 06:18:35 Ember. 06:19:10 source ^stdcons.bfm 06:19:10 source ^outs.bfm 06:19:10 string foo! "Ember.\n" 06:19:10 outs foo!end 06:20:22 * SuperAussieEvil falls over 06:21:16 Fine, fine. Don't take what is probably the most efficient high-level language which compiles to Brainfuck. 06:21:30 (for varying definitions of "high-level") 06:23:58 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble-1.0-preview.tar.bz2 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck-1.0.tar.bz2 06:24:04 (end self-whoring for now) 06:26:37 didn't sleep at all my first nap 06:27:11 * GregorR-L imagines the 'P' in "PFUCK" is silent. 06:28:45 GregorR-L: Wasn't thinking about it like that, but I like that pronounciation. 06:29:06 Consider it official. 06:29:09 pee-fuck 06:30:12 That's just not something I want to think about. 06:30:34 Bloody. . . I forgot to update the copyright dates. 06:30:44 Still saying Copyright (c) 2006. 06:31:34 boo copyright 06:31:44 Stupid mistake fixed. 06:31:51 Public Domain Considered Harmful 06:33:06 It's only stdlib/ that's under the public domain. . . 06:33:30 And that's almost entirely composed of ports from the [[Brainfuck_algorithms]] page on the Esolangs wiki. 06:33:59 Pikhq: That was a response to bsmntbombdood. 06:34:05 Ah. 06:34:13 why? 06:34:48 bsmntbombdood: Liability disclaimers with PD software are not legally binding, however the author is still liable for all damages. 06:34:58 wtf? 06:35:20 Also, there's still no legal means to declare something as PD short of registering it as such, so most PD stuff isn't technically PD (doesn't matter since that's not really arguable in court) 06:35:44 That second one is USA-only, the first part is most countries. 06:36:43 guy who wrote rm gets sued for deleting all of someones files 06:36:52 Nope. 06:37:06 rm is copyrighted ;) 06:37:24 Given how retarded the US courts are, somebody could probably sue the author of a PD rm. 06:37:31 [for that] 06:37:32 rm on my system, at least, is part of coreutils, and so under the GPL. 07:20:05 -!- SuperAussieEvil has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:23:17 guess what: it's late and i have nothing to do 08:27:10 Guess what: Who cares. 08:27:28 i do 08:27:33 duh 08:28:06 Touché :P 09:01:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:20:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 09:23:07 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 09:32:52 -!- GregorR-L has left (?). 11:46:15 * GregorR-L imagines the 'P' in "PFUCK" is silent. <<< or it could just be pronounced 'pfuck' 11:46:39 back from the test? 11:47:35 yes 11:48:07 i managed to fail one using "assignation", whatever the correct term is 11:48:17 others were pretty much correct 11:48:27 got the answers right away 11:49:23 i fitted 7 answers on one a4 :) 11:49:47 (plus calculations) 13:18:55 -!- jix has joined. 13:40:03 -!- jix__ has joined. 13:42:11 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:42:12 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 15:04:55 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:08:42 -!- ihope has joined. 17:35:27 -!- jix__ has joined. 17:43:51 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:02:43 -!- ehird` has quit. 19:09:37 -!- calamari has joined. 19:44:50 * Pikhq complains about PFUCK being too fast 19:46:34 What's PFUCK? 19:50:52 Pebble's Fuck Up Compiler, Kay? 19:50:58 Renamed from basm. 20:15:34 Well, yesterday's loony has turned out to have the not-totally-insane beliefs. 20:15:39 They are as sensible as most religions, and less harmful than some religions. 20:15:44 Although, if he was inclined and had the required talents, the guy could start a suicide cult with them. 20:16:37 Pikhq: remind me what that translates from and to. Ditto PEBBEL 20:17:18 SimonRC: PFUCK goes from Brainfuck to C. 20:17:33 And PEBBLE goes from PEBBLE to C or Brainfuck. 20:17:44 The C backend is highly efficient now. 20:17:49 PFUCK is written in PEBBLE, right? 20:17:53 Right. 20:18:18 pfuck.bfm, when compiled to C, takes 0.214 seconds to compile LostKng.b on my system. 20:18:35 Pikhq: is the PEBBLE stdlib in BF, or is there a C version too? 20:19:09 how does PEBBLE->C compare with PEBBLE->BF->C? 20:19:37 The PEBBLE stdlib has a language-generic version written in PEBBLE (designed for Brainfuck efficiency), and language-specific variants for the C and interpreter backends. 20:19:57 Let me test the PEBBLE->BF->C path.; 20:20:15 I've tested the PEBBLE->C path with and without language-specific macros. 20:20:58 Pikhq: cool 20:21:32 The language-specific macros provide 0.214 seconds, without nets 2 seconds. . . 20:23:21 What is PEBBLE written in? 20:24:03 PEBBLE is written in Tcl. 20:24:06 ah, ok 20:24:17 You aren't a *total* masocchist then. 20:25:14 The PEBBLE->BF->C path provides 2.749 seconds to compile LostKng.b, assuming -O2 on GCC. 20:25:26 Err. Wrong executable 20:25:51 11.622 seconds. 20:27:10 so, 50 times slower 20:27:18 that is not too bad I think. 20:28:06 So, we've got 0.249 seconds with language-specific macros, 2.401 without, and 11.622 seconds when compiling the Brainfuck code itself. 20:28:34 Yeah, I think my compiler provides for some damned fast code. ;) 20:29:23 what do the language-specific macros for C look like? 20:30:14 macro name in out temp { 20:30:14 lang { /* Here be C code */ } 20:30:14 } 20:30:44 If it's part of your project, that macro will be in ./c/ 20:30:55 ok 20:30:58 If it's part of stdlib, it'll be in stdlib/c 20:31:50 If the compiler can't find the language-specific version, it goes on to the generic version, and then it errors out. 20:33:14 how does one write a generic version? 20:34:10 macro name in out temp { # Here be Pebble code } 20:34:23 ah, in Pebble itself. 20:34:28 Of course. 20:35:13 So there are built-in macros for all the bf operations, right? 20:35:35 You can't really say increment in a generic way 20:35:39 Built-in commands, yes. 20:35:44 ok 20:36:18 And a few extra built-in commands for the addition of macros, and to tell the optimization pass things. 20:38:07 like? 20:38:30 is0 and isnot0 20:38:52 Let the optimization pass know if a cell is 0, so that it can avoid do pointless cell clears. 20:38:52 ok 20:40:10 isnot0 isn't really needed in the modern language much, because the optimization pass can detect that accurately. 20:41:45 cool 20:42:06 unless you are doing funny movements with odd invariants 20:43:46 No, it detects all cell writes which could possibly change the value accurately. 20:44:16 The only time it won't work is for the language-specific macros, which have been written in such a way as to make up for that. 20:44:43 ok 20:46:51 getting into uberman's = suck 20:53:44 * Pikhq goes down for reboot 20:54:07 -!- Pikhq has quit ("Leaving."). 20:58:18 -!- Pikhq has joined. 21:03:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:04:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:14:02 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:24:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:52:43 bsmntbombdood: have you sticked with the nap system? 21:52:57 i'm trying 21:54:42 how's it going? 21:54:46 tired 21:54:50 sounds like something i'd like to try 21:55:08 but since you seem to have started already, better for me to see if you die, first 21:55:10 :) 21:55:41 because if you do, i don't think i'll try it 21:55:45 i'm not a fan of dying 21:55:46 i dunno if i'm going to make it past tonight 21:55:52 hehe 21:55:54 go outside 21:56:04 oh... the nap 21:56:11 well, go outside 21:58:02 i'm worried i won't wake up after a nap 21:59:27 you live alone? 22:00:22 well, if i put an alarm almost immediately after falling asleep (< 1h), i almost always wake up 22:00:43 though of course not if you're tired like hell... 22:04:09 there is an anecdote about Fridtjof Nansen, he took his afternoon nap with his keys or something in his hand. The nap only lasted until he woke up by his keys hitting the floor... 22:04:51 i heard that about pascal or someone... 22:05:08 a way to keep him awake while reading in the night 22:05:13 how's that an anecdote 22:05:29 i don't see why it even merits a mention of a famous person 22:05:39 it's just a way to prevent falling asleep... 22:06:18 presumably it's an anecdote because it gets told about various famous persons 22:06:42 no one tells anecdotes about me rubbing my forehead with a frozen beanbag :< 22:06:51 (nansen would be a natural choice in norway) 22:07:43 my impression was that whoever it was needed just such a short nap 22:08:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:08:57 btw, i heard this strange anecdote about oklopol. apparently he uses to rub his forehead with a frozen beanbag when he has a hangover. 22:11:32 * Pikhq might wake up for a nuclear attack. . . Might. 22:12:32 boom 22:12:43 i have alarm set on my cellphone 22:13:00 before the actual alarm plays, the cellphone goes out of sleep mode (turns on) 22:13:13 as it does that, it makes a tiny sound 22:13:39 (not intentionally - probably some voltage change in the speaker as the systems turn on) 22:13:47 it's that tiny sound that usually wakes me up :) 22:14:30 oerjan: i've never had a hangover, beanbags are for keeping the eyes open :) 22:15:44 -!- digital_me has joined. 22:15:58 oklopol: I'm sorry, but anecdotes always change. I expect it to swiftly change into a Pekka/Toivonen joke. 22:16:58 who's he? 22:17:04 I heard this anecdote about oerjan, he uses to drink rubbing alcohol and eat bags full of beans 22:17:45 lament: :-P 22:18:07 and then he has hangovers :) 22:18:09 Pekka/Toivonen are the stock names Norwegians use in jokes about Finnish 22:18:15 lament: BTW, that occurs with mechanical alar clocks too, I hear. 22:18:17 mmmm bags full of beans 22:18:24 gotta get some of that -> 22:18:26 *alarm 22:18:38 SimonRC: yeah, i can imagine it would. 22:18:59 i KNOW the sound will be followed by the alarm, so i wake up. 22:19:41 terribly flatulent hangovers 22:19:58 :-S 22:20:22 -!- ihope has joined. 22:21:04 hi 22:29:00 Ello. 22:29:04 LO 22:29:50 HI? 22:30:00 HI, MEIN! 22:31:45 WAS? 22:34:41 Mm-hmm. 22:35:03 i would imagine rubbing alcohol would be unpleasent 22:35:53 well duh 22:36:11 it took like 8 minutes for my alarm clock to wake me just now :/ 22:38:08 bsmntbombdood: how much have you been awake now? 22:38:13 i mean, when did you start? 22:38:43 last night 22:39:27 so... i've had less sleep than you :P 22:39:45 16 hours ago, so i've had 4 naps 22:40:05 bsmntbombdood: good luck 22:40:17 hehe, it's 00:37, i have another test at 8:00, and i have to write an essay still 22:40:30 and i got about 2 hours sleep last night 22:41:02 My exam is in 14 hours' time 22:41:36 SimonRC: thanks 22:41:42 /TIME! 22:41:54 1540 22:42:03 2340 22:42:07 2240 22:42:14 Generally it's a good idea to be well-slept before an exam... I think. 22:44:40 0040 22:44:44 0043 22:44:46 heh 22:45:18 * bsmntbombdood conjectures that SimonRC, oklopol and oerjan are all on the same continent, and that continent is different from his 22:45:53 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:49:23 bsmntbombdood: did you read today's xkcd before decideing on your sleep experiment? 22:49:32 -!- Pikhq has joined. 22:49:59 no 22:50:19 synchronicity then 22:50:43 I'm 1749 right now. 22:50:44 I think with practice that comic could actually be done. 22:50:58 * ihope scrambles some data 22:51:12 well, i'm off to the neighbor's to suspend some meat over a flame 22:51:25 I think that means bsmntbombdood's two hours west of me. 22:52:25 And oklopol's seven hours east, oerjan's eight, and SimonRC's nine. 22:52:40 assuming we are all on daylight saving 22:52:52 Egad. 22:53:10 which we europeans are 22:53:20 I'll just assume that you are and hope that it all goes away because of that. 22:53:21 but i've heard there are american exceptions 22:53:28 -!- Pikh1 has joined. 22:54:06 wait, simonRC is six, not nine 22:54:10 If the schools... and everyone else didn't follow DST, I probably wouldn't. 22:54:10 bush said "zomg changing DST will save are engergiez" 22:54:13 eh wait 22:54:39 anyhow you have us in the wrong order 22:54:40 -!- Pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:54:43 the normal human time systems suck :/ 22:54:46 Egad. 22:54:48 Indeed. 22:54:51 -!- Pikh1 has changed nick to pikhq. 22:54:53 -!- pikhq has changed nick to Pikhq. 22:55:05 bsmntbombdood: they're not "normal human"! 22:55:33 SimonRC is in England, which is west of Norway where I am, which is west of Finland where Oklopol is 22:56:36 I am in GMT 22:57:08 only during winter surely 22:57:09 o_O weird seeing myself capitalized 22:57:19 oklopol: you're capitalized? 22:57:55 for some reason i didn't use completion when writing his nick 22:58:06 it's so nice to write 22:58:09 that's why 22:58:16 What? 22:58:25 Oh, I see. 22:58:33 ". . . which is west of Finland where Oklopol is" 22:59:15 actually to be precise _some_ parts of Norway are east of Finland, in the north 22:59:22 (And I suddenly notice I'm the only one using capital letters at the beginnings of sentences.) 23:00:01 why is "I" capitalized? 23:00:07 us lazy typists 23:00:35 *east of most of finland 23:00:37