00:00:24 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:09:47 -!- digital_me has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:18:26 -!- crathman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:29:48 lament: pff, go and ruin all our HD-DVD fun? ;-) 00:29:56 At least, I think that's what it is. 00:29:59 Something like that. 00:35:30 decoding an infinite computation makes it much more difficult to define what it means not to cheat - you can no longer just require halting checker 00:35:42 *a halting 00:36:35 basically, a computation that just added an increasing counter to the end of the program text would be universal if you allowed it 00:37:19 since the checker could simply be "run program for counter number of steps" 00:38:07 encode the code in the number of steps to run the tm 00:38:24 in fact even primitive recursive may be strong enough to allow the cheat 00:38:43 no, the encoder cannot do that if it is to halt 00:39:54 bsmntbombdood: or maybe i don't understand what you mean 00:40:48 have a function decode:tape state -> number of steps ran 00:42:01 encode the program into a natural number, run tm that many steps, decode tape contents 00:42:45 that would not be universal, because it always halts. 00:43:27 oh,hmm 00:43:57 note that _only_ the tm is allowed to run indefinitely. i assume that the decoder gets to run once per step, with the current tape state 00:44:18 but not with any own state from previous steps 00:45:58 but still it gets too strong to allow a decoder that is arbitrarily primitive recursive 00:46:23 because that is enough for "run a program n number of steps" inside the decoder 00:47:10 on the other hand, i assume anything grep-like is definitely allowed 00:47:59 which means essentially, fixed memory limit for the checker 00:48:55 and almost anything that is more than that could be used to cheat 00:49:11 even logspace. 00:51:08 because you could simply have a checker that ran N steps or until it ran out of its current resource limit 01:55:55 -!- ehird` has 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a change. look-and-say sequence in thue: http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/programs/thue/las.t 12:35:01 by the way, the original (i think) thue interpreter has some bug in it that can happen with 1-character strings (iirc). i can't remember anymore what it exactly was, but i noticed it in the c interpreter when one program i did didn't seem to work correctly and i was sure it was correct. then i made some simple test program and found the bug. so use some other interpreter. 12:36:16 oh, i also uploaded new version of my digital root calculator in thue, not that anyone cares. there's also padovan sequence in underload (using unary) i made recently... 12:37:29 expect some larger and more complex esoprogs again, soon. 12:37:36 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 12:38:04 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:54:28 -!- Pikhq has joined. 13:14:35 -!- jix has joined. 14:07:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:14:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:22:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:30:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:15:47 -!- crathman has joined. 15:58:14 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:00:51 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:19:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 16:47:34 * SimonRC imagines some sci-fi about a person transported to a universe with immense negative curvature. 16:48:03 enough that he gets slightly broke bones, but not enough to kill him 16:48:12 ah, the fun you can have with the concept. 17:05:26 what is negative curvature? i wanna join the fun 17:15:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:25:30 SimonRC: read "inverted world" 17:25:34 SimonRC: you'll love it 17:27:18 yeah 17:27:20 hmm 17:28:10 stop being interesting without sharing it! 17:28:29 hm? 17:31:07 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 17:31:19 hi 17:33:34 i meant negative curvature and inverted world :) 17:33:39 but i'll ask google 17:36:36 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:37:46 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:50:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:50:46 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:34:32 schooooooooool's out 18:41:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:56:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:59:26 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:16:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:34:31 -!- ehird` has changed nick to NOT-ehird`. 19:59:26 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:18:29 oklopol: You Know You're A Geek When: you just assume that eveyone you meet knows what hyperbolic geometry is. 20:26:49 -!- ihope_ has joined. 20:26:51 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 20:43:17 -!- Pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 21:33:02 -!- Pikhq has joined. 21:53:07 you know you are a geek when you are in #esoteric 21:54:23 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:54:57 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:22:19 -!- helios24 has joined. 22:41:31 -!- NOT-ehird` 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