< 1179276462 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Anyone who needs the number 0. < 1179276593 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1997, of course, equals MCX7. < 1179276700 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. . . That's wrong. < 1179276869 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MXM7 < 1179276925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1179276979 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1997 = 199 7 = CIC 7 < 1179276982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIC7 < 1179276996 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but MM7 is shorter < 1179277011 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is C3M < 1179278074 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 10 is shorter still (base unspecified). :p < 1179279851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many rules frown on CIC and want CXCIX instead. < 1179279901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thus, one should represent the number "ninety-nine" as XCIX, not as the "shortcut" IC. However, these rules are not universally followed." says Wikipedia on "XCIX or IC". < 1179279904 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I frown on positive-integer-only numerics. < 1179279934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But remember: A frown takes N muscles, while a smile takes only M, with N >> M. < 1179279994 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Thus, a numeral system which *can* represent all real numbers (assuming infinite storage) is easier than one that can only store postive integers. < 1179280029 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, with some additions, the real number numeral system also handles complex numbers) < 1179281583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: adding a '-' in front of roman numerals is not any different from adding it in front of decimal numerals. < 1179283025 0 :Rugxulo!i=icechat5@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1179283054 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1179283105 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1179283108 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1179283280 0 :Rugxulo!i=icechat5@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1179283333 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1179285798 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1179289885 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1179289924 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1179293614 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"night" < 1179302399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1179302400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1179305757 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1179311062 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1179316821 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1179316823 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1179317653 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-047-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1179319449 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1179319472 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-047-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1179321165 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1179321185 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-047-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1179331550 0 :helios24_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :helios24 < 1179333140 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54457988.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1179333896 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-79-251.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1179335889 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :- the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ | http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/ < 1179337855 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1179337928 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54457988.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1179339526 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1179339537 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoo < 1179339554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1179346760 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1179346924 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1179346970 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1179349231 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1179349266 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1179349278 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1179350134 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1179351015 0 :ville_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1179351447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1179352539 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1179353677 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1179353730 0 :ville_!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1179358401 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1179359537 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that turing machine in the topic has no halt state < 1179359546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is suposed to be the end of computation? < 1179359661 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything < 1179359662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any halting computation to test, i think < 1179359666 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1179359687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any halting computation to set up, too < 1179359696 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1179359710 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: to check when to halt, you analyze the state < 1179359735 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: but the rule for halting has to be sufficiently simple < 1179359747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you code and decode a computation from/into this machine using some other program. < 1179359775 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the decoding be done by a utm < 1179359859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that the de/coder should be simple enough that you know _it_ is not providing the universality < 1179359885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, simply being halting may not be enough < 1179359931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to satisfy the committee < 1179359946 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, realistically, shouldn't be difficult unless you're actually cheating