←2007-03-26 2007-03-27 2007-03-28→ ↑2007 ↑all
00:00:06 <Figs> ooh
00:00:10 <Figs> I have a fun one for you guys
00:00:10 <Figs> http://weblog.raganwald.com/2006/12/just-because-we-can.html
00:00:15 <Figs> what does this program do...
00:00:19 <Figs> in 10 different languages!
00:02:46 <oerjan> (set 30 to 0 to turn off tracing, 257 to your output wrapping, and "?~" is the program.)
00:02:46 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
00:03:10 <RodgerTheGreat> Just another * hacker. :D
00:03:37 <Figs> O.o
00:03:42 <Figs> what is %: ?
00:03:50 <Figs> is it the same as #?
00:05:40 <oklopol> try it
00:05:47 <Figs> I did
00:06:01 <Figs> and that's the only thing I can think of
00:06:05 <Figs> but I'm not familiar with it
00:06:54 -!- crathman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
00:08:57 <oklopol> it worked?
00:09:12 <Figs> yeah
00:09:28 <SevenInchBread> ..POLYGLOTS... fun stuff.
00:09:45 <Figs> is there wiki software for local use?
00:09:49 <Figs> or blog software?
00:09:57 <lament> yes.
00:11:41 <Figs> hehehe... :P
00:11:42 <Figs> http://www.funny-jokes.net/funny-pictures/imgs/177.jpg
00:12:50 <RodgerTheGreat> nice
00:14:27 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.trichotomy.ca/images/cats/whatisthispwnedyouspeakofandwhyamiabouttogetsome.jpg
00:14:29 <SevenInchBread> SUBMIT SUBMIT SUBMIT - http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Kallisti (changes made, SUBMIT)
00:15:00 <SevenInchBread> ...is the eso wiki supposed to automatically log me out very frequently.
00:15:47 <oklopol> http://osl.iu.edu/~tveldhui/papers/2003/turing.pdf <<<<< this seems like something one could do for brainfuck as well
00:16:24 <Figs> preferably without having to run a webserver locally.. :|
00:17:45 <SevenInchBread> ...I still can't get my PC to work as a webserver.
00:18:53 <oerjan> SevenInchBread: Have you set it to remember your password?
00:19:26 <oerjan> *wiki password
00:19:47 <oerjan> I had the same problem before I did that
00:19:57 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... might be it.
00:20:03 <SevenInchBread> I just did that... so it might stop now.
00:22:10 -!- atrapado has joined.
00:22:28 <oklopol> c++ has two turing complete langs and one almost turing complete, and i hear haskell's type system is turing complete too.... wonder if you could make a non turing complete lang with a non turing complete type system such that they together make up a turing complete system
00:22:40 <oklopol> well....
00:23:21 <oklopol> hmm....
00:23:23 <oklopol> pizza ------->
00:23:36 <Figs> O.o
00:25:12 <lament> oklopol: yes, very easily. Brainfuck with limited tape size, unbounded cells.
00:25:15 <lament> :)
00:25:21 <SevenInchBread> if dupdog were Turing complete... I'm sure it's very likely that mfit or shanty alone isn't
00:28:17 <oklopol> hmm... it's pretty hard to do any kind of factorization in brainfuck but that'd be one way to do it i guess?
00:28:29 <oklopol> though no question mark, since i DO guess.
00:34:36 <Figs> GAH
00:34:45 <Figs> Why can't anyone fucking program!?!?!??!?!?!!
00:35:02 * Figs wants to kill the idiot who wrote his school's webmail interface
00:35:24 <lament> Figs: it is very difficult to program while fucking. Can't concentrate.
00:35:34 <Figs> maybe for you :P
00:36:12 <oerjan> This reminds me of an xkcd strip
00:36:22 <Figs> :D
00:37:00 <lament> oerjan: i suppose any combination of 'program' and 'fuck' in the same sentence would.
00:37:22 <oerjan> actually i don't think it was about programming.
00:38:52 <lament> but its mention serves as a catalyst.
00:39:40 <oklopol> i've tried that once
00:40:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
00:40:53 <oklodok> hmmm.... not a good idea to idle here with oklodok... two mircs kinda mess up logs being the same executable :)
00:41:06 <Figs> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Home+Page&bl
00:41:11 <Figs> different kind of language
00:41:20 <oklodok> so i'll die now.
00:41:23 -!- oklodok has left (?).
00:41:31 <lament> ewww lojban.
00:41:47 <lament> oklopol: even one mirc is a bit sketchy
00:42:55 <oklopol> i know, but they all seem to suck so i'll make my own when i see fit
00:44:05 <Figs> IRC client?
00:46:47 <oklopol> hmm
00:46:51 <oklopol> the brainfuck generator?
00:46:56 <oklopol> !bf_gen
00:46:59 <oklopol> !help
00:47:09 <oklopol> egobot is dead
00:47:17 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
00:47:24 <oklopol> hmm.... is there another way to do string -> bf output
00:49:11 <Figs> ^.*(?=.{10,})(?=.*\d)(?=.*[a-z])(?=.*[A-Z])(?=.*[@#$%^&+=]).*$
00:52:24 <oklopol> that one?
00:53:36 <Figs> no
00:53:55 <Figs> that's a regular expression
00:53:58 <Figs> not sure what language
00:54:00 <Figs> :P
00:57:06 -!- atrapado has quit ("l3nz").
00:59:20 <oerjan> looks like perl
01:00:08 <Figs> O.o
01:00:08 <Figs> http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1579dx8.jpg
01:01:16 <oklopol> hmmm has there been any proof on shortest possible ways to create a string in bf?
01:02:04 <oerjan> in general there cannot be - Kolmogorov complexity, so undecidable
01:02:26 <oklopol> oh :O
01:02:52 <oklopol> well... i guess it's understandable i couldn't do it then :)
01:04:21 <lament> no, that's wrong.
01:04:31 <lament> wait
01:04:34 <lament> that's right. nevermind.
01:04:48 <oerjan> O.o indeed.
01:05:44 <Figs> lol
01:07:58 <Figs> epp
01:07:58 <Figs> http://fukung.net/images/527/DeadeyeDick.jpg
01:08:43 <SevenInchBread> so...
01:09:01 <SevenInchBread> I seriously need to gather a band of conspiracy pirates to make A MOST EXCELLENT SYSTEM OF OPERATING.
01:09:26 <Figs> I have a friend from Lithuania who might be interested
01:10:44 <Figs> heh
01:10:52 <Figs> Showing BF to be turing-complete
01:10:52 <Figs> http://www.iwriteiam.nl/Ha_bf_Turing.html
01:10:54 <Figs> yay
01:12:23 <lament> eh... yes
01:12:36 <lament> bf is turing complete. That page is like a decade old.
01:13:31 <Figs> :P
01:13:31 <RodgerTheGreat> we had pretty advanced plans for an OS a while back, then gregor did his usual buzzkill and the fervor kinda died down
01:13:33 <SevenInchBread> well... I was also thinking about doing a lot of distributed stuff.... like cryptography, stenography, and stuff across a decentralized network... functioning as one OS.
01:13:38 <Figs> I'm just stumbling
01:13:45 <Figs> O_o
01:13:52 <Figs> EULAlyzer
01:14:06 <Figs> "Analyze license agreements for interesting words and phrases"
01:14:17 <RodgerTheGreat> but the entire discussion did produce one of my nicer creations: Def-BF! It's Brainfuck with pointers! woo
01:14:30 <oerjan> there are two different ways in which BF can be Turing complete. either you can have unbounded tape length, or you can have unbounded cell size.
01:14:38 <SevenInchBread> ...and like... a less boring operating system. BASED ON THE WILL OF GODDESS.
01:14:40 <RodgerTheGreat> two new instructions, limitless possibilities
01:20:20 <RodgerTheGreat> any goddess in particular?
01:20:26 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd go with Athena. rawr.
01:22:13 <SevenInchBread> nope
01:22:15 <SevenInchBread> Eris.
01:22:57 <SevenInchBread> hmm... so... taking a tip from Erlang here... any sort of process will have message passing in cues...
01:23:10 <SevenInchBread> rather than the one-message call system Unix uses.
01:23:49 <RodgerTheGreat> queues, you mean?
01:23:55 <SevenInchBread> ...yeah
01:23:59 <RodgerTheGreat> :)
01:24:44 <SevenInchBread> ...aaaand... files are more like hash tables than actual files... HASH TABLES OF LINKED LISTS... IF YOU'D LIKE
01:24:46 <SevenInchBread> INIFNITY FILES.
01:24:48 <SevenInchBread> I DARE SAY
01:25:05 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
01:26:26 <Figs> o.o
01:26:27 <Figs> eep
01:26:33 <SevenInchBread> ....with a versioning system...
01:26:50 <SevenInchBread> so you can look at old versions... or revert oopses.
01:27:03 <RodgerTheGreat> TO INFINITY
01:29:27 -!- calamari has joined.
01:31:08 <oerjan> AND BEYOND
01:31:56 <oerjan> speaking of cue-based message systems...
01:32:34 <RodgerTheGreat> QUEUE!
01:32:39 <oerjan> no, cue.
01:33:47 <Figs> like, cue ball? :P
01:35:45 <oerjan> options, options
01:36:05 <oklopol> cue-based.... isn't that like event based?
01:36:25 <oerjan> hm... guess you are right
01:36:42 <oerjan> too boring. balls it is then.
01:36:46 <oklopol> hehe :D
01:37:04 <Figs> ooh :P
01:37:05 <oklopol> i'm reading a book called programming the universe
01:37:05 <Figs> http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/hell/Bestof/mit-letter.html
01:37:19 <Figs> cue as in... actions O.o
01:37:43 <SevenInchBread> the main problem with hash tables and stuff is that hard disks have slower seeking times than active memory.
01:37:55 <SevenInchBread> so... pointer-based structures are inherently slower to traverse.
01:38:06 <Figs> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=cue
01:38:16 <SevenInchBread> ...but, it shouldn't be hard to stuff all the data close to each other...
01:38:55 <Figs> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=queue
01:47:03 <oklopol> hmmmm.... i just figured out why it's impossible to make a general algorithm for the shortest possible way to produce a string
01:47:25 <oklopol> and.... i now see i was quite stupid to take so long :D
01:50:11 <SevenInchBread> I BELIEVE I WILL NEED TO MINDS OF MANY GENII TO PULL THIS ONE OFF
01:50:21 <SevenInchBread> MAINLY BECAUSE I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ASSEMBLY OR HARDWARE.
01:50:41 <SevenInchBread> ...so, I'll need to do some reading.
01:52:21 <oklopol> i think i read the first 100 or something pages of http://www.intel.com/design/pentium/manuals/24319101.pdf
01:52:53 <Figs> "What does a dog do that a man steps into?"
01:52:57 <Figs> "Pants"
01:53:00 <Figs> I don't get it.
01:53:08 <oklopol> a dog pants
01:53:17 <Figs> oh
01:53:19 <Figs> thanks
01:53:25 <oklopol> panting is the act of making an inhaling sound and drooling
01:54:00 <SevenInchBread> oklopol, ....that's far too much boring crap for me to read.
01:54:05 <oklopol> :P
01:54:11 <oklopol> i found it interesting
01:54:33 <oklopol> but i didn't understand it anymore at some point
01:54:41 <RodgerTheGreat> if you guys help me create a Bullet -> x86 compiler, I shall gladly write you a Kernel for this brave new operating system!
01:54:59 <oklopol> you make the spec first :)
01:55:36 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm working on that literally as we speak
01:55:54 <RodgerTheGreat> THE RESERVED WORD LIST IS GROWING! MUAHAHAHA!
01:56:03 <oklopol> hehehe :)
01:56:07 <oklopol> how many?
01:56:29 <RodgerTheGreat> and I'm contemplating the inclusion of labels and gotos. They're useful and simple to compile, but most people don't use them properly
01:56:33 <SevenInchBread> ...I was thinking about doing some nifty self-modifying crap.... like Synthesis.
01:56:52 <RodgerTheGreat> they might end up morphing into a better version of break statements
01:57:00 <RodgerTheGreat> SevenInchBread: you mean my language?
01:57:07 <SevenInchBread> OSiness.
01:57:24 <RodgerTheGreat> "SYNTHESYS"?
01:57:26 <oklopol> gotos are cool
01:57:28 <SevenInchBread> well.... I don't know x86 at all...
01:57:53 <SevenInchBread> ...the only reason assembly is sane to code in is macros.
01:57:58 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm trying to weigh the benefits of having them with the havoc shitty programmers would cause with them
01:58:09 <Figs> hmm?
01:58:14 <oklopol> asm is a pretty good language
01:58:23 <Figs> I need to learn asm :P
01:58:23 <RodgerTheGreat> GOTOs are almost as dangerous as pointers, but for a different reason
01:58:23 <SevenInchBread> Yeah I like it...
01:58:30 <Figs> again
01:58:32 <Figs> I forgot it all
01:58:37 <oklopol> nothing is dangerous.
01:58:41 <SevenInchBread> RodgerTheGreat, Never restrict anything just cause people might use them. ;)
01:58:48 <RodgerTheGreat> fair enough
01:59:03 <RodgerTheGreat> but I do like well-structured programming
01:59:22 <Figs> RTG: Assembly is ALL goto statements ;D
01:59:28 <Figs> (and some other stuff)
01:59:28 <oklopol> Figs no.
01:59:36 <RodgerTheGreat> the most useful things you can do with gotos are computed jumps (fuck pointers) and escaping from deep logic.
01:59:36 <oklopol> loops have been there for ages
01:59:39 <oklopol> plus functions
01:59:48 <oklopol> plus, actually, for_eaches
01:59:49 <RodgerTheGreat> so I might make more specialized versions for those two purposes
02:00:03 <SevenInchBread> well... there are macros.
02:00:06 <Figs> oklopol... are we talking about the same assembly language?
02:00:11 <oklopol> well... there are functions.
02:00:20 <oklopol> i don't know what macros are
02:00:27 <oklopol> in asm
02:00:49 <oklopol> a function is a number indicating the position of a function in the memory
02:01:04 <oklopol> you just stuff stuff on the stack and change execution to that function
02:01:22 <oklopol> then when returning, put stuff on the stack or in a register
02:01:39 <RodgerTheGreat> function pointers seem really useful to manipulate at runtime, but insanely easy to fuck up in subtle ways
02:01:39 <oklopol> returning: store current code pointer on the stack when calling the funciton
02:01:54 <oklopol> fucking up is a matter of debugging
02:02:01 <Figs> :P
02:02:06 <Figs> what asm are you using?
02:02:12 <Figs> FAsm?
02:02:13 <oklopol> i've never done any asm
02:02:19 <Figs> TAsm?
02:02:20 <Figs> oh
02:02:22 <Figs> :P
02:02:24 <RodgerTheGreat> ah, the flat assembler.
02:02:29 <RodgerTheGreat> I loved that thing
02:02:29 <oklopol> well... when i was little i made a program that beeped randomly
02:03:08 <oklopol> and i've read a few books about asm, though mostly about the technical part
02:03:18 <oklopol> BUT you are wrong to say asm hasn't got functions
02:03:52 <oklopol> it has concurrency (because of quite a direct metaprogramming) as well
02:04:53 <oklopol> in asm it's very easy to do continuations too
02:05:04 <oklopol> functional programming is easy
02:05:33 <Figs> I wrote a hello world program once
02:05:34 <oklopol> i've been thinking of making darkasm, an interpreted asm-like programming language
02:05:36 <Figs> in
02:05:39 <oklopol> asm?=
02:05:40 <Figs> XVII32
02:05:44 <oklopol> hmm
02:05:45 <Figs> :D
02:05:49 <Figs> (hex editor)
02:05:52 <oklopol> yeah
02:05:54 <oklopol> i have that
02:05:59 <Figs> XVI32*
02:05:59 <oklopol> (i think)
02:06:07 <Figs> 16 32 :P
02:06:09 <Figs> not 17 :P
02:06:10 <Figs> rofl
02:06:23 <oklopol> i don't know asm spesifics well
02:06:32 <oklopol> i couldn't make a compiling program
02:06:39 <Figs> why not compile to C?
02:06:41 <oklopol> unless the empty program is legal
02:06:45 <Figs> it's more portable, anyway
02:06:53 <oklopol> compile what to c?
02:06:58 <Figs> Bullet
02:07:03 <oklopol> ah
02:07:10 <oklopol> bullet -> c -> asm at least
02:07:16 <oklopol> asm because it's for the os
02:07:20 <oklopol> dummie :)
02:07:29 <Figs> you can do system programming in C
02:07:29 <RodgerTheGreat> eew
02:07:39 <Figs> it's meant to be portable assembly
02:07:49 <RodgerTheGreat> you guys *do* realize bullet is meant as a *replacement* for C, right?
02:07:56 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... interesting... I've never seen functions in what little I've touched of asm.
02:08:08 <oklopol> yes, but we also realize c has good compilers
02:08:12 <SevenInchBread> I've always just seem macros...
02:08:27 <Figs> I don't think Asm has functions...
02:08:30 <Figs> but you can make them :D
02:08:35 <oklopol> it's a substitute for c programming, compilation is different
02:08:42 <Figs> I think it has proceedure calls :P
02:08:48 <Figs> [call]
02:08:57 <RodgerTheGreat> I made bullet because I thought C had antiquated syntax and compiler technology
02:08:57 <Figs> if I remember right
02:08:59 <SevenInchBread> ...I'm fine with C myself... it might be fun to actually use it once.
02:09:08 <oklopol> call <function address>
02:09:21 <oklopol> that will autodo all address savings etc
02:09:24 <oklopol> (i think)
02:09:49 <oklopol> procedure==function if you can access the call stack directly
02:10:16 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat i understand, but i'm afraid none of us know any asm really
02:10:21 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
02:10:35 <oklopol> since i feel like i know most of us.... and i don't know any
02:10:56 <oklopol> now... what's an asm macro?
02:11:14 <SevenInchBread> it's just like... a thing that takes args, and substitutes in some code.
02:11:18 <RodgerTheGreat> I have a fairly good understanding of ASM programming in general, I just don't have much platform-specific instruction set knowledge
02:11:35 <Figs> :p
02:11:39 <oklopol> okay
02:11:41 <oklopol> never seen
02:11:47 <SevenInchBread> ..during the assembling... like compiler macros in C.
02:11:49 <oklopol> but anyway, that's not necessary
02:11:57 <oklopol> you can make functions.
02:12:25 <Figs> I guess what I'm saying is
02:12:27 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat well, you prolly have about the same backround as me then
02:12:32 <SevenInchBread> well... sometimes functions arne't necessary... macros have the benefit of being compiled before execution.
02:12:38 <Figs> you have to manually impliment calling convention
02:13:02 * SevenInchBread finds something on assembler macros.
02:13:05 <oklopol> SevenInchBread you can use a calculator / paper for that
02:13:22 <oklopol> handy, maybe, but redundant
02:13:31 <RodgerTheGreat> I guess we could use a bullet->c compiler as a proof of concept for the language, and then we'd be able to play with the language as I tackle the slower task of building an actual compiler.
02:13:46 -!- mvivian has left (?).
02:14:00 <SevenInchBread> http://www.osdev.org/wiki/Opcode_syntax
02:14:06 <oklopol> well, if someone was to set me up an asm compiler, i might learn the language quite quickly
02:14:10 <oklopol> i've dl'd about 5
02:14:14 <oklopol> never got any to work
02:14:14 <Figs> Fasm
02:14:17 <SevenInchBread> plus... macros are cool.
02:14:21 <Figs> it's very easy to use
02:14:50 <Figs> http://flatassembler.net/
02:15:54 <Figs> heh
02:15:58 <Figs> the problem of course though is
02:16:10 <Figs> you'll need an assembler at some point :P
02:16:15 <Figs> and maybe a linker
02:16:19 <Figs> depending what you're doing
02:16:54 <Figs> http://www.iecc.com/linker/
02:16:57 <Figs> a book on linking and loading
02:17:11 <oklopol> http://class.ece.iastate.edu/cpre211/lectures/assembly_functions.htm asm functions.... though i have no idea what this page talks about
02:17:16 <oklopol> since i didn't read it :)
02:17:57 <oklopol> Figs you give me a fasm link and say i will also need an assembler?
02:18:17 <Figs> no
02:18:19 <Figs> I'm saying
02:18:25 <Figs> if you make it compile to asm
02:18:28 <oklopol> ah
02:18:29 <oklopol> yeah
02:18:31 <Figs> you will still need an assembler
02:18:44 <RodgerTheGreat> FASM is a pretty nice piece of software
02:18:59 <oklopol> i'll dl fasm now
02:19:06 <Figs> ;)
02:19:14 <Figs> if I could learn x86 opcodes
02:19:18 <Figs> then we'd be in business
02:19:19 <SevenInchBread> hmm... making functions looks more complicated
02:19:26 <Figs> it is
02:19:30 <Figs> if I remember right
02:19:44 <Figs> I don't know all the specifics, but I do know at least 2 ways to call functions
02:19:45 <SevenInchBread> MACROS - THE LAZY MANS VARIABLES.
02:19:46 <oklopol> hmm... i could try and make a bf compiler
02:19:49 <Figs> cdecl style
02:19:51 <Figs> and stdcall
02:20:05 <Figs> what really matters is who cleans up the stack
02:20:10 <oklopol> you can invent your own.
02:20:11 <SevenInchBread> I'd imagine so.... functions are actually using assembly to do its magic... where macros are substituted in during assembling.
02:20:51 <oklopol> cdecl == caller clears, stdcall == callee clears iiird
02:20:52 <Figs> does the function clean up the stack after itself, or does the caller clean up the stack after calling the function?
02:20:53 <oklopol> *iiiiiirc
02:21:27 <oklopol> cdecl changed the convention for varargs
02:21:36 <Figs> yeah
02:21:53 <oklopol> all my sentences will, from now on, have an implicit iirc, for the rest of my life.
02:21:54 <Figs> the number of args (variable vs fixed) is one consideration
02:21:58 <Figs> iirc == ?
02:22:06 <oklopol> to my best recollection.
02:22:17 <oerjan> and thereby ruined tail call optimisation
02:22:23 <oklopol> yep :\
02:22:46 <oklopol> Figs: if i recall correctly
02:22:47 <SevenInchBread> MACROS
02:22:51 <SevenInchBread> ..
02:23:06 <oklopol> SevenInchBread calm down
02:23:13 <oklopol> macros are nothing special
02:23:37 <SevenInchBread> lol lol you wish.
02:23:38 <oklopol> any decent ide should have a general purpose macro system.
02:24:04 <oklopol> though, from what i've seen there is no such thing today as a decent ide
02:24:20 <SevenInchBread> oooh... I'll make my own assembly lang...
02:24:35 <SevenInchBread> ....like.... that'll make no sense.
02:24:42 <oklopol> oerjan you can make exceptions though, since you can use stdcalls in c
02:24:48 <Figs> 7"
02:24:58 <Figs> if you do that, you need to make the hardware too :P
02:25:07 <oklopol> Figs no
02:25:18 <SevenInchBread> no no I mean... an assembler... basically a compiler into assembly opcodes.
02:25:34 <Figs> @.@
02:25:35 <oklopol> that'd be like saying you have to breed your own population of people to be able to create a new esperanto
02:25:37 <Figs> eep
02:25:41 <oklopol> or volapk
02:25:47 <oklopol> or that loljunga
02:25:51 <oklopol> or whatever :)
02:26:02 <Figs> meh
02:26:03 <Figs> :P
02:26:30 <Figs> it'd be more interesting if we had to figure out how to make his hardware work
02:26:43 <oklopol> a friend of mine created this language called zx3, he's thinking of adopting a few chinese kids now to teach it to
02:26:48 <oklopol> as the only language
02:26:48 <Figs> send pulses into the bus...
02:26:55 * SevenInchBread tries to think at stuff he's good at in making an OS...
02:27:33 <SevenInchBread> ..ummm... basically just parsing and networking... and code obfuscators.
02:28:06 <SevenInchBread> yeah... mostly networking.
02:28:48 <Figs> you're good at networking? :D
02:28:51 <Figs> yay
02:29:00 <SevenInchBread> ...not good, just comfortable with it.
02:29:13 <SevenInchBread> It's what I've been doing a lot of...
02:29:37 <SevenInchBread> OH
02:29:51 <SevenInchBread> and I can make a kickass text-based adventure game... for like a GUI or something.
02:30:25 <oerjan> is stdcall part of the C standard?
02:30:40 <oklopol> oerjan __stdcall int func(args){}
02:30:44 <Figs> I don't think so
02:31:00 <Figs> but it is important for practical programming
02:31:01 <oklopol> hmm... might be a part of the c++ standard actually :)
02:31:10 <Figs> I very much doubt it
02:31:23 <SevenInchBread> ...but... the only language I've honestly ever used for anything practical is Python.
02:31:23 <oklopol> and... might be it's c but it's not standard
02:31:23 <oklopol> i think the last one ^^^^^^^^
02:31:29 <SevenInchBread> I simply know how the rest of them work... but I have no experience using them.
02:32:08 <Figs> it's, and I quote, "Microsoft Specific"
02:32:21 <Figs> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/zxk0tw93.aspx
02:32:58 <oklopol> oh
02:33:06 <oklopol> i think you made that up!
02:34:01 <Figs> __cdecl is the default convention
02:34:57 <Figs> it would seem there is also __fastcall
02:36:57 <Figs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calling_convention
02:37:00 <SevenInchBread> ...I'd be better off starting at the top end here...
02:37:37 <oklopol> okay, i got fasm now
02:37:44 <Figs> yay
02:37:49 <oklopol> can't compile towers of hanoi
02:37:56 <oklopol> i'll try a hello world
02:38:13 <SevenInchBread> so... here's what I've got so far... some ideas that probably won't be around till much later.
02:38:56 <oerjan> ah. stdcall and cdecl are available in gcc for i386
02:39:21 <Figs> there is also fastcall
02:39:29 <Figs> /Gr
02:40:49 <oklopol> wow something actually compiled
02:41:06 <Figs> :P
02:41:10 <Figs> did you make a .com?
02:41:25 <oklopol> 30 lines, an msgbox hello world, exe
02:41:37 <oklopol> i did not make it
02:41:44 <Figs> :P
02:42:23 <oklopol> exactly 30 actually, i just picked a random number
02:42:30 <oklopol> my lucky day
02:42:34 <Figs> ;0
02:42:43 <Figs> eep!
02:42:44 <Figs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_decoration
02:42:55 <oklopol> push 0
02:42:56 <oklopol> push _caption
02:42:56 <oklopol> push _message
02:42:56 <oklopol> push 0
02:42:56 <oklopol> call [MessageBox]
02:43:02 <oklopol> this is the main code, it seems :P
02:43:21 <oklopol> now... where have i seen this before...
02:43:25 <Figs> yeah
02:43:37 <Figs> that would call the Windows API MessageBox() function with 4 args
02:43:48 <Figs> 0, _caption, _mesage, and 0
02:43:56 <Figs> if I remember correctly,
02:43:59 <Figs> the first is the parent
02:44:01 <Figs> second is caption
02:44:03 -!- oklobot has joined.
02:44:03 <Figs> 3rd is message
02:44:12 <Figs> and 4th is the style
02:44:19 <oklopol> !exec "caption" "message" PrntNl
02:44:20 <oklobot> message
02:44:30 <Figs> O_o
02:44:36 <oklopol> i just realized there are no msgboxes neither in oklobot nor in irc
02:44:46 <Figs> lol
02:45:05 <Figs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_decoration
02:45:06 <oklopol> fourth is style
02:45:07 <Figs> eep!
02:45:10 <Figs> yes
02:45:15 <Figs> it's like MB_OK
02:45:18 <Figs> or whatever
02:45:29 <Figs> you can binary OR styles together
02:45:33 <Figs> to create more complex styles
02:45:41 <Figs> but I don't remember any of them :P
02:46:55 <Figs> bah
02:47:00 <Figs> MSDN is so friggen slow :P
02:47:33 <SevenInchBread> ...a good thing to set up first would be a way to spit out info to the screen... for the crumbing of breads.
02:47:52 <Figs> if you're doing COM programming
02:47:57 <Figs> just use int 21h
02:48:06 <Figs> it's old but it works
02:48:15 <Figs> I don't remember the variable
02:48:22 <Figs> but it gives you $ terminated strings
02:49:24 <Figs> ah
02:49:27 <Figs> try setting the style to
02:49:30 <Figs> MB_YESNOCANCEL
02:49:33 <Figs> ;)
02:49:37 <Figs> or MB_ICONERROR
02:50:56 <oklopol> !exec "!exec ""34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl"34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl
02:50:57 <oklobot> !exec "!exec ""34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl"34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl
02:51:07 * SevenInchBread has no clue what's going on now.
02:51:32 <oklopol> SevenInchBread "int" means interruption, it's a kind of a function in asm...
02:51:37 <Figs> !exec "MessageBox" PrintNl
02:51:37 <oklopol> but not really
02:51:48 <oklopol> !exec "MessageBox" PrntNl
02:51:49 <oklobot> MessageBox
02:52:02 <Figs> :P
02:52:08 <oklopol> do not omit Nl for multiple prints per line.
02:52:13 <oklopol> use Add
02:52:24 <oklopol> !exec "asd ""foo"AddPrntNl
02:52:24 <Figs> !exec "Hello World" PrntNl
02:52:25 <oklobot> asd foo
02:52:29 <oklobot> Hello World
02:52:43 <Figs> 5 second latency
02:52:52 <oklopol> throttling
02:52:57 <Figs> ah :P
02:52:57 <oklopol> not latency
02:53:04 <Figs> ok
02:53:07 <oklopol> !exec 1 1 8[RotRotDblRotAddRot1SubDbl]Drp""Rot[RotRotSwpDbl"-"SwpAddRotAddRotRotSwpDblRotSwpSubSwpRotRotDbl]DrpAddPrntNl
02:53:08 <oklobot> 1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21-34-55
02:53:19 <oklopol> !exec 0 10[Dbl1SubDbl]Drp[MulSwpDbl]DrpPrntNl
02:53:20 <Figs> eep
02:53:20 <oklobot> 3628800
02:53:27 <oklopol> !exec 0 2[Dbl1SubDbl]Drp[MulSwpDbl]DrpPrntNl
02:53:28 <oklobot> 2
02:53:30 <oklopol> !exec 0 3[Dbl1SubDbl]Drp[MulSwpDbl]DrpPrntNl
02:53:32 <oklobot> 6
02:53:35 <SevenInchBread> oklopol, ...that didn't help me at all.
02:53:40 <oklopol> :)
02:53:42 <Figs> !exec 2[Dbl]PrntNl
02:53:44 <SevenInchBread> I was just... generally confused about what we were talking about.
02:53:55 <oklopol> !print a
02:53:56 <oklobot> a
02:54:09 <Figs> !exec 0 2[Dbl]DrpPrntNl
02:54:29 <Figs> *gives up*
02:54:30 <Figs> :P
02:54:30 <oklopol> SevenInchBread he just said you can output with interruption 21h
02:54:35 <SevenInchBread> ....
02:54:43 <Figs> it's a DOS command
02:54:48 <Figs> to output characters to the string
02:54:51 <SevenInchBread> PFFFFFFFFFFFT
02:54:56 <Figs> (among other things)
02:54:59 <SevenInchBread> apple
02:55:01 <Figs> int 21h does a crap load of stuff
02:55:02 <SevenInchBread> think about it
02:55:09 <SevenInchBread> the apple - it's like a pear... but shaped differently.
02:55:17 <oklopol> that's exactly what my book said
02:55:28 <oklopol> except for the pear thing
02:55:45 <oklopol> Figs i think it's the OS int
02:56:11 <Figs> ok
02:56:13 <Figs> to quit the program
02:56:16 <Figs> is
02:56:23 <Figs> mov ax 4C00h
02:56:33 <Figs> int 21h
02:56:45 <oklopol> well, naturally.
02:57:17 <oklopol> hmm
02:57:31 <oklopol> can you write me a non windowed hello world?
02:57:35 <oklopol> using int 21h
02:57:56 <Figs> hold on
02:58:04 <Figs> let me fire up fasm
02:58:07 <SevenInchBread> hmmm.....
02:58:07 <Figs> it has been ages...
02:58:19 <oklopol> like... mov ax, smth \n int 21h \n data db "Hello, world!",0 ?
02:58:26 <SevenInchBread> memory management could probably draw on some spiffy mathematical properties... to associate virtual to physical memory.
02:58:27 <oklopol> but then you need a lot of weird stuff
02:58:33 <oklopol> like segments and such
02:59:10 <SevenInchBread> ...anything in programming that can be solely described in some form of arithmetic is usually blindingly fast.
02:59:33 <SevenInchBread> ...I say we use the number 5.
02:59:42 <SevenInchBread> anytime you need a number... use a number related in some way to 5.
02:59:51 <SevenInchBread> ...and we shall have the best OS ever.
02:59:56 <oklopol> LET 7 = 5
02:59:59 <oklopol> and we can use 7
03:01:20 <Figs> what is the ascii for 'a'?
03:01:44 <oklopol> 65
03:01:45 <oklopol> oh
03:01:46 <oklopol> 97
03:01:49 <oklopol> or....
03:02:08 <oklopol> feck
03:02:10 <oklopol> i got jammed
03:02:14 <oerjan> this reminds me of the old puzzle - to write any number from 1 up to something using 4 4's
03:02:22 <oklopol> :D
03:02:30 <oerjan> i think it was
03:02:53 <Figs> I got a way to put an 'a' on the screen
03:03:02 <oklopol> well, can i see it?
03:03:10 <Figs> sure, but it is a poor way of doing things :P
03:03:20 <oklopol> use the db thing
03:03:28 <oklopol> and you have strings
03:03:31 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/Psz7PD47.html
03:03:43 <Figs> no... I didn't use the other thing
03:04:16 <Figs> I am working on a slightly better way
03:04:37 -!- Sukoshi has quit (".").
03:04:51 <oklopol> hmm... will it take long?
03:04:55 <oklopol> i'll leave sooon
03:05:09 <Figs> probably not
03:05:11 <SevenInchBread> ...yeah...
03:05:15 <SevenInchBread> I'm having trouble
03:05:20 <SevenInchBread> keeping up with what we're talking about.
03:05:37 <SevenInchBread> but... everything is related to five.
03:06:02 <SevenInchBread> 11100000 is a beautiful number... as is 10101000 and all its various adjustments.
03:06:15 <oklopol> oerjan can you use any lambdas in that game?
03:06:37 <oklopol> <insert lambda> 4 <insert lambda> 4 <insert lambda> 4 <insert lambda> 4
03:08:12 <SevenInchBread> ....4 is an evil number.
03:08:12 <oerjan> well the usual version starts with arithmetic. if you put on to many operations you eventually reach the point where you can make a trivial recursive pattern to get everything.
03:08:15 <SevenInchBread> and is no permitted.
03:08:21 <SevenInchBread> and NEVER use 4 4s....
03:08:44 <oerjan> *too
03:09:30 <Figs> ok
03:09:33 <Figs> almost got it now...
03:09:38 <Figs> just need to remember how to do pointer arithmetic
03:09:39 <Figs> whee
03:14:20 <SevenInchBread> ...what exactly are we trying to do?
03:14:36 <Figs> we're trying to print "Hello World!"
03:15:06 <Figs> eep
03:15:07 <Figs> :|
03:15:10 <Figs> it doesn't like me
03:15:17 <Figs> illegal instruction
03:15:18 <Figs> :(
03:15:52 <SevenInchBread> ...any way you could generalize that?
03:15:58 <Figs> that's what I'm doing
03:16:01 <Figs> or trying to
03:16:22 <Figs> or did that not make sense?
03:16:27 <Figs> ok... what I'm trying to do is:
03:16:36 <Figs> define a sequence of bytes
03:16:42 <Figs> "Hello World!\0"
03:16:47 <SevenInchBread> I think if you had a sort of thin language atop assembly to deal with large amounts of data... like a high-level macro-language for plotting out assembly instructions... you could do some nifty stuff.
03:16:47 <Figs> and print that
03:17:08 <Figs> that's the idea behind C, I think...
03:17:10 <oklopol> SevenInchBread it's called c
03:17:12 <oklopol> :)
03:17:20 <SevenInchBread> no no I mean... DIRECT access to assembly...
03:17:29 <Figs> you have direct access to assembly
03:17:30 <Figs> in C
03:17:31 <oklopol> make a better c compiler
03:17:31 <Figs> :P
03:17:37 <SevenInchBread> ...
03:17:43 <oklopol> that compiler when you select something and click ctrl
03:17:44 <SevenInchBread> I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
03:17:46 <Figs> asm keyword
03:17:47 <oklopol> *compiles
03:17:52 <Figs> I guess not
03:18:52 <oklopol> 4-4+4/4, 4/4+4/4, (4+4+4)/4, 4*(4-4)+4, 4!/4-4/4, (4+4)/4+4, 4+4-4/4, 4*4-4-4, 4+4+4/4, 4*4-(4!/4), (4!+4)/4+4
03:18:53 <oklopol> hmm
03:18:56 <oklopol> 12 is tricky
03:18:57 <oklopol> :\
03:19:03 <oklopol> is ! legal?
03:19:16 <SevenInchBread> basically... you're still writing assembly... but you also have a macro language with some high-level constructs for substituting in instructions... like you could have an entire "string" macro of some sort... to make strings by using macro loops and stuff.
03:19:17 <oklopol> i couldn't think of another way to do 5
03:19:25 <SevenInchBread> ...
03:19:30 <SevenInchBread> I WILL.
03:19:32 <SevenInchBread> KILL YOU.
03:19:43 <Figs> ????
03:19:52 * SevenInchBread is blinded by 4s
03:19:53 <Figs> 4+4+4 doesn't work for you?
03:19:58 <oklopol> but.... SevenInchBread i think c is kinda thattish
03:20:01 <oklopol> Figs 4 4's
03:20:09 <Figs> ah :P
03:20:14 <oklopol> otherwise it's ridiculously trivial
03:20:27 <oklopol> (4/4)*n, where n is teh num
03:20:32 <SevenInchBread> except... with C you don't touch any assembly.
03:20:37 <oklopol> SevenInchBread you can.
03:21:06 <SevenInchBread> basically what this would be is... the instructions for how you want your code to compile to assembly...
03:21:22 <oklopol> int dbl(int a){_asm mov ax,a;_asm mul ax,2;_asm mov a,ax;return a}
03:21:26 <oklopol> int dbl(int a){_asm mov ax,a;_asm mul ax,2;_asm mov a,ax;return a;}
03:21:37 <Figs> actually, it is asm {}, I think
03:21:40 <oerjan> oh right - you can use things like 44 as well.
03:21:43 <Figs> but i have never used it
03:22:03 <Figs> I could be wrong
03:22:06 <oklopol> Figs _asm <instruction>; or _asm {instruction \n instruction \n etc} in microsoft at least
03:22:19 <Figs> yeah, I don't use microsoft
03:22:23 <oklopol> 44/4+(4-4) then
03:22:25 <Figs> I may be thinking of C++'s asm
03:22:30 <oklopol> meh
03:22:34 <oklopol> this get too easy :)
03:22:39 <Figs> that is 5 fours, oklopol
03:22:40 <SevenInchBread> The macros would be like a string manipulation language of sorts... with the return value being the assembly instructions...
03:22:41 <oklopol> i'll go up to hundred.
03:22:44 <oklopol> ...maybe no
03:22:46 <oklopol> *not
03:23:04 <oklopol> Figs stfu :P
03:23:08 <Figs> :P
03:23:41 <oklopol> 44/((4+4)/4)
03:23:42 <oklopol> 12
03:23:44 <oerjan> of course when doing this as a "family" puzzle some of the point is to know the most operations, but I think in present company that constitutes overkill
03:23:48 <oklopol> 11 i have already... if ! is ok
03:23:57 <Figs> 4*4-(sqrt 4)-(sqrt 4)
03:24:11 <oklopol> sqrt is ^0.5
03:24:19 <oklopol> i don't think that's ok
03:24:29 <oklopol> or, at least if it is, ! is definately ok
03:24:43 <Figs> so, is it multiples of 4?
03:24:45 <Figs> or exactly 4?
03:24:56 <oklopol> anyway, i was a lot faster than you, and that's the most important
03:24:57 <oklopol> *thing
03:25:04 <Figs> I only just started :P
03:25:07 <SevenInchBread> ...
03:25:07 <oklopol> :P
03:25:15 <SevenInchBread> all this talk of 4s is driving me crazy...
03:25:16 <oerjan> i don't remember exactly. It may be that it is up to 4 4's, but definitely not more
03:25:17 <oklopol> :D
03:25:25 <oklopol> okay
03:25:30 <Figs> 17?
03:25:42 <oklopol> 4*4+4/4
03:25:44 <SevenInchBread> hopefully this has nothing to do with the OS... I will NOT permit the rampant use of 4s in the OS.
03:25:45 <oklopol> 13 is next
03:25:46 <Figs> :D
03:25:50 <oklopol> don't jump to easy numbers
03:26:16 <oklopol> SevenInchBread i'm sorry to tell you this but it's going to consist entirely of fours :\
03:26:20 <oklopol> the os
03:26:26 <Figs> 44/4+sqrt(4)
03:26:32 <oklopol> hmm
03:26:37 <oklopol> i still think sqrt is bad
03:26:38 <oklopol> :<
03:26:52 <oklopol> hmm i guess it's ok
03:27:23 <Figs> I think I remember doing this in 5th grade
03:27:25 <Figs> I hated it
03:27:28 <oklopol> hehe :D
03:27:34 <Figs> or maybe 6th
03:27:35 <Figs> not sure
03:27:41 <oklopol> i think i got up to 8 or smth
03:27:41 <Figs> we did a lot of puzzle type math in 6th grade
03:27:44 <Figs> and it got annoying
03:27:46 <oklopol> i used ! then too
03:27:50 <Figs> ;)
03:27:57 <oklopol> i was much wittier then
03:27:59 <oklopol> :<
03:28:08 <oklopol> energy drinks kill the brain
03:28:25 <Figs> 4!-4-4-4
03:28:42 <oklopol> 4+4+4+sqrt(4)
03:28:43 <oklopol> hmm
03:28:45 <Figs> another way to get 12
03:28:56 <Figs> yeah
03:29:02 <oklopol> yeah
03:29:05 <oklopol> so we have 3 now
03:29:09 <Figs> 15?
03:29:13 <Figs> let's see here :P
03:29:21 <Figs> 4*4-(4/4)
03:29:26 <oklopol> 44/((4+4)/4)=4*4-(sqrt 4)-(sqrt 4)=4!-4-4-4
03:29:37 <oklopol> yeah that was triv
03:29:41 <Figs> yeah
03:29:46 <Figs> 16 is easy too
03:29:47 <oklopol> 4*4+(4-4)
03:29:49 <oklopol> yeah
03:29:52 <Figs> (4*4)*(4/4)
03:29:54 <oklopol> 10 sec
03:29:55 <Figs> 17 you did already
03:29:58 <Figs> 18...
03:30:32 <SevenInchBread> ...how would you do this puzzle in 5s?
03:30:39 <Figs> 4! -4 -sqrt(4)
03:30:48 <oklopol> clever
03:31:07 <Figs> me?
03:31:08 <Figs> thanks
03:31:09 <oklopol> if less than 4 can be used, which indeed is the case i guess :P
03:31:16 <Figs> hehe
03:31:17 <oklopol> i forgot that already
03:31:21 <Figs> yeah
03:31:22 <oklopol> so... 19?
03:31:27 <Figs> let's do 18 again
03:31:30 <Figs> and do it right
03:31:39 <oklopol> yeah, 4 4's!
03:32:05 <Figs> 4!-sqrt(4)-4
03:32:08 <oklopol> (4!-4)/4*4 == 20 btw
03:32:09 <Figs> is 3
03:32:10 <Figs> oops
03:32:15 <Figs> yeah
03:32:40 <Figs> (4!-4*4)+4
03:32:42 <Figs> hehe
03:32:44 <Figs> another 12
03:32:48 <oklopol> :DD
03:33:20 <oklopol> 44-4!-4 == 16
03:33:21 <oklopol> damn
03:33:41 <Figs> 44/4*sqrt(4)-4
03:33:45 <oklopol> 5
03:33:46 <Figs> yeah
03:33:47 <oklopol> :\
03:33:48 <Figs> :\
03:34:04 <Figs> 44/4+4+4 = 19, btw
03:34:41 * SevenInchBread wins.
03:35:22 <SevenInchBread> ...23 is also an acceptable number.
03:35:25 <SevenInchBread> as 2 +3 = 5
03:35:55 <oklopol> (4!*4!)/(4!+4) == 20
03:36:20 <oklopol> (4!-4)-(4/4)==19
03:36:23 <Figs> (4^4)/(4!)*4 = 42.666...
03:36:32 <oklopol> i did it
03:36:41 <Figs> nope
03:36:44 <oklopol> :<
03:36:44 <Figs> we're trying to get 18
03:36:46 <Figs> :P
03:36:46 <oklopol> oh
03:36:47 <oklopol> darn
03:36:49 <Figs> I already did 19
03:36:54 <oklopol> where?
03:36:58 <oklopol> 44/4+4+4 5
03:37:00 <Figs> right above [16:32:10] Figs: 44/4+4+4 = 19, btw
03:37:01 <Figs> [16:32:47] * SevenInchBread wins.
03:37:01 <Figs> [16:33:28] SevenInchBread: ...23 is al
03:37:11 <oklopol> 5
03:37:12 <oklopol> 5
03:37:12 <oklopol> 5
03:37:12 <oklopol> 5
03:37:13 <oklopol> 5
03:38:51 <Figs> 4!-4-4+sqrt(4)
03:38:58 <Figs> = 18
03:39:02 <oklopol> yeah
03:39:13 <oklopol> but you did that already
03:39:19 <oklopol> ho
03:39:19 <oklopol> oh
03:39:20 <Figs> I didn't O.o
03:39:21 <oklopol> fuck
03:39:22 <oklopol> :D
03:39:25 <Figs> :D
03:39:27 <oklopol> you did 3 fours
03:39:30 <Figs> yeah
03:39:34 <Figs> now with 4 :D
03:39:37 <oklopol> ...i thought we tried to do without sqrt
03:39:45 <oklopol> i found that sqrt thing :\
03:39:52 <Figs> ?
03:39:56 <oklopol> but.... hey Figs found this already
03:39:57 <oklopol> :)
03:40:18 <oklopol> i mean
03:40:28 <oklopol> i found it just now, but thought it's no good
03:40:33 <Figs> oh
03:40:34 <Figs> :P
03:40:37 <Figs> I'm using sqrt
03:40:37 <oklopol> because that was the thing we decided to make better
03:40:41 <oklopol> yeah :O
03:40:42 <oklopol> :P
03:40:44 <oklopol> okay
03:40:44 <Figs> since I can't think of another way
03:40:44 <oklopol> 21
03:40:49 <oklopol> yeah, me neither
03:40:53 <Figs> but no cubed rutes
03:40:55 <Figs> *roots
03:41:10 <oklopol> (4!-4)+(4/4)
03:41:10 <Figs> ok.. 21
03:41:12 <oklopol> 21
03:41:13 <Figs> :D
03:41:15 <oklopol> :D
03:41:42 <SevenInchBread> ..... floor(log10(5)**log10(25)**log10(25)*23)
03:41:47 <Figs> lol
03:41:49 <oklopol> (4!-4)+(4/sqrt(4))
03:41:50 <oklopol> 22
03:42:01 <Figs> so... 23?
03:42:05 <Figs> I think we did 23 already
03:42:42 <oklopol> hmm
03:43:02 <oklopol> well
03:43:04 <oklopol> can't find it
03:43:07 <oklopol> let's do 23
03:43:09 <SevenInchBread> HMMMMM
03:43:10 <SevenInchBread> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_Transfer_Language
03:43:11 <Figs> ok
03:43:28 <SevenInchBread> ...Lisp-ish assembly of some sort?
03:44:12 <Figs> in any case... 4!-(sqrt(4))+4/4
03:44:31 <Figs> =23
03:44:40 <Figs> 24?
03:44:56 <oklopol> hmm
03:45:06 <oklopol> yeah
03:45:29 <oklopol> 4!-4+s(4)+s(4)
03:45:33 <oklopol> s??sqrt
03:45:36 <oklopol> s==sqrt
03:45:40 <oklopol> 25 now
03:45:44 <Figs> ok
03:46:13 <oklopol> 4!+s(4)-(4/4)
03:46:16 <oklopol> 25
03:46:17 <oklopol> 26 now
03:46:19 <Figs> ok
03:46:27 <oklopol> 4!+s(4)+4-4
03:46:29 <oklopol> 26
03:46:31 <oklopol> 27 now
03:46:39 <oklopol> 4!+s(4)+(4/4)
03:46:41 <oklopol> ==27
03:46:42 <Figs> :P
03:46:43 <oklopol> 28 now
03:46:43 <oklopol> :D
03:46:44 <Figs> fast
03:46:47 <oklopol> i'm getting good at this
03:46:59 <Figs> 4!-4+4+4
03:47:00 <oklopol> 4!+s(4)+4/s(4)
03:47:06 <oklopol> :P
03:47:13 <Figs> I like mine better :P
03:47:16 <oklopol> yeah
03:47:16 <Figs> =29
03:47:20 <Figs> *8
03:47:25 <Figs> s/8/9
03:47:26 <oklopol> 4!+4+4/4
03:47:28 <Figs> is that right?
03:47:35 <oklopol> ? :D
03:47:36 <Figs> yep
03:47:39 <oklopol> now 30?
03:47:42 <Figs> ok
03:47:58 <oklopol> 4!+4!+4+4/s(4)
03:47:59 <Figs> 4!+s(4)+s(4)+s(4)
03:48:03 <oklopol> 4!+4+4+4/s(4)
03:48:09 <oklopol> yeah
03:48:11 <oklopol> same thing
03:48:13 <oklopol> now 31
03:50:43 <Figs> (4!)/4+(4!)/4 = 12
03:50:44 <SevenInchBread> ....
03:50:55 <SevenInchBread> ANYWAYS
03:50:57 <SevenInchBread> LET'S GO BACK
03:51:01 <Figs> f(4) = 4! ?
03:51:02 <SevenInchBread> TO THE IMPORTANT MATTERS.
03:51:04 <Figs> :P
03:51:14 <Figs> I LIKE TALKING IN CAPS LOCK TOO :D
03:51:21 <SevenInchBread> WOW LET'S GO OUT.
03:51:28 <Figs> :(
03:51:31 <Figs> I AM NOT INTO GUYS
03:51:33 <Figs> SORRY.
03:51:37 <SevenInchBread> ...DAMN
03:51:44 <SevenInchBread> WELL I GUESS
03:51:47 <SevenInchBread> I BETTER GO KILL MYSELF.
03:51:50 <Figs> aww :(
03:51:54 <Figs> help us solve 31
03:51:55 <SevenInchBread> wwa
03:52:01 <SevenInchBread> alright.
03:52:14 <SevenInchBread> 3 + 1 = 4
03:52:24 <oklopol> :D
03:52:41 <Figs> 44/4 + 4! = 35
03:52:51 <oklopol> 24+4+4+4 = 36
03:53:04 -!- wooby has quit.
03:53:06 <Figs> f(4)/4 * f(4)/4 = 36
03:53:10 <Figs> :D
03:53:21 <Figs> 4!+4!-(4*4) = 32
03:53:25 <oklopol> f(4)+4+4+4 = 36, f(4)+4+4+s(4) = 24
03:53:29 <oklopol> omg
03:53:53 <Figs> oh
03:54:09 <Figs> f(4)+(f(4)/4)+4 = 24
03:54:12 <Figs> *34
03:55:18 <SevenInchBread> 4+4+4+4+15 = 31
03:55:22 <Figs> :P
03:56:13 <oklopol> 33 is next?
03:56:20 <Figs> we need to finish 31
03:56:28 <oklopol> it's not finished?
03:56:30 <Figs> no
03:56:36 <oklopol> oh :\
03:56:37 <Figs> :(
03:56:45 <oklopol> ah 32
03:56:52 <oklopol> i've done that a million times :P
03:56:55 <Figs> :D
03:57:01 <oklopol> but though OH HE DID IT DAMN!
03:57:05 <oklopol> *thought
03:57:08 <oklopol> when you showed it
03:57:12 <oklopol> okay, 31
03:58:17 <Figs> sqrt(4)*4^2 - (4/4)
03:58:26 <Figs> if you allow ^2
03:58:56 <oklopol> yeah... but i'd not
03:59:06 <Figs> yeah
03:59:11 <Figs> let's see if there's another way
03:59:14 <oklopol> yeah
03:59:16 <oklopol> because
03:59:21 <oerjan> hm...
03:59:26 <oklopol> all my attempts crash at 4*4 taking 2 numbers
03:59:36 <oklopol> oerjan comes in and pwns us all :)
03:59:51 <oerjan> BWAHAHAHAHA!
04:00:02 <oklopol> :DD
04:00:12 * oerjan has been reading lots of mad science webcomics
04:01:06 <Figs> 44-(4*4) = 28
04:01:44 <Figs> 44-(4!-4) = 24 :p
04:01:54 <Figs> hmm
04:01:55 <Figs> 31
04:01:58 <Figs> fuck :P
04:02:22 <Figs> I'm tempted to say we allow ^2
04:02:29 <Figs> just so we can move on
04:02:44 <oklopol> well, it's obvious we'll have to constantly increase the amount of operators
04:02:50 <Figs> yeah
04:02:50 <oerjan> nah. definitely nothing is allowed whose mathematical notation contains a digit other than 4
04:02:52 <oklopol> so...
04:03:00 <oklopol> well yeah
04:03:04 <oklopol> oerjan is right
04:03:18 <oklopol> oerjan now give us 31 or stop ruining our fun :)
04:03:46 <Figs> 4!^(4-(4/4)) = 13,824
04:03:51 <oklopol> hehe _D
04:03:53 <Figs> yay
04:04:06 <Figs> oh!
04:04:08 <Figs> :D
04:04:11 <Figs> I got an idea
04:04:29 <Figs> but it's probably useless :P
04:05:01 <Figs> hehe
04:05:03 <Figs> got another idea
04:05:08 <Figs> if you find a way to do something w/ 3
04:05:17 <Figs> use derivative :P
04:05:25 <Figs> d/dx (4) = 0
04:05:41 <Figs> @_@ :P
04:05:51 <oklopol> hmm
04:07:02 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
04:08:21 <Figs> I looked up a way to do it
04:08:24 <Figs> (sorry)
04:08:26 <oklopol> :<
04:08:32 <Figs> it required a different operator
04:08:35 <Figs> that we had
04:08:35 <oklopol> which?
04:08:37 <Figs> .4
04:08:42 <oklopol> :\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
04:08:54 <Figs> if we allow .4
04:08:56 <Figs> it is possible
04:09:04 <Figs> but you will have to figure out how
04:09:06 <Figs> ;P
04:09:20 <Figs> (and that version allowed ^2 for somethings, but I don't think used it for that)
04:09:34 <oklopol> hmm, prolly 4^sqrt(4)
04:09:52 <Figs> no, that uses a 4
04:09:59 <Figs> sqr(4)
04:10:05 <Figs> only uses 1 four
04:10:08 <Figs> but anyway
04:10:09 <Figs> ack
04:10:14 <Figs> I forgot the solution already
04:10:15 <Figs> :P
04:10:17 <Figs> rofl
04:10:21 <oklopol> well, don't look
04:10:23 <Figs> *tries to figure it out*
04:10:34 <oklopol> we'll try until you REMEMBER or we others figure it out
04:10:41 <oklopol> because you figuring it out now
04:10:46 <oklopol> would be merely remembering.
04:10:47 <oklopol> :)
04:11:13 <Figs> yeah I got it again
04:11:20 <oklopol> showz
04:11:25 <Figs> 4!+sqrt(4)+(sqrt(4)/.4) = 31
04:11:28 <oklopol> :<<<<<<
04:11:40 <oklopol> aah
04:11:43 <oklopol> 2/0.4
04:11:46 <Figs> yeah
04:11:48 <Figs> =5
04:12:05 <oklopol> yeah... 5 is one of the numbers i've been wanting
04:12:11 -!- sekhmet has quit ("omgp90").
04:12:14 <oklopol> hmm
04:12:18 <oklopol> we have up to what now?
04:12:20 <Figs> s(4)/0.4 * 4/4
04:12:22 <Figs> =5
04:12:27 <Figs> 31, 32, 33...
04:12:31 <oklopol> no 33 yet
04:12:36 <Figs> do we have 33?
04:12:40 <Figs> no... hmm
04:12:41 <Figs> whee!
04:12:46 <Figs> I have a solution
04:12:51 <oklopol> :DD
04:12:56 <oklopol> oh
04:12:56 <Figs> 4!+4+(sqrt(4)/.4)
04:12:57 <oklopol> haha
04:12:59 <oklopol> yeah
04:13:06 <Figs> rofl
04:13:13 <oklopol> quite obvious, now 37?
04:13:15 <oklopol> or
04:13:23 <Figs> did we do 34?
04:13:31 <oklopol> 4!+4!-(4*4) = 32
04:13:36 <oklopol> no 34
04:13:40 <oklopol> 44/4 + 4! = 35
04:13:43 <oklopol> 24+4+4+4 = 36
04:13:50 <oklopol> so, 34 next
04:14:00 <oklopol> (i just pasted 32 35 and 36 here)
04:14:06 <Figs> ok
04:14:11 <Figs> 34 then
04:14:17 <Figs> oh duh
04:14:24 <Figs> 4!+4+4+s(4)
04:14:27 <Figs> = 34
04:14:30 <Figs> right?
04:14:33 <oklopol> hmm
04:14:36 <oklopol> yeah
04:14:37 <oklopol> oh
04:14:42 <oklopol> yeah
04:14:45 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
04:14:46 <oklopol> 37 next
04:15:26 <Figs> 4*4/0.4 -s(4) = 38
04:16:00 <oklopol> f(4+s(4))/(4*4) = 45 :)
04:16:04 <Figs> :D
04:16:11 <Figs> let's see if we can get to 100
04:17:13 <Figs> hmm, let's make this more readable
04:17:16 <Figs> 24: 4!
04:17:22 <Figs> 5: 4/0.4
04:17:27 <Figs> 2: s(4)
04:17:43 <oklopol> 5: s(4)/0.4
04:17:52 <Figs> yeah...
04:17:53 <Figs> oops
04:18:00 <oklopol> 10: 4/0.4
04:18:02 <Figs> yes
04:18:06 <Figs> :P
04:18:23 <Figs> 5*10 = 50
04:18:46 <Figs> 37.. hm
04:21:35 <Figs> 5*4+24 = 44
04:22:05 <oklopol> 48: 4! + 4! + (4-4)
04:22:12 <Figs> yeah
04:22:15 <Figs> ;)
04:22:48 <Figs> 4^2 +4^2 + 5 = 37
04:22:54 <Figs> if we allow ^2
04:23:04 <oklopol> hmmmmmmmmmm
04:23:11 <Figs> oooh
04:23:15 <Figs> what if we allowed bar?
04:23:18 <oklopol> :D
04:23:19 <oklopol> hmm
04:23:21 <oklopol> what's that?
04:23:27 <Figs> .444444.........
04:23:43 <Figs> usually you put a - over the 4
04:23:49 <Figs> we could do .4`
04:23:52 <oklopol> ahhhh
04:24:01 <oklopol> i thought like foo's brother bar
04:24:05 <Figs> rofl
04:25:57 <Figs> I got 38
04:26:31 <Figs> (24 / .4` ) - (4*4) = 38
04:26:37 <oerjan> hm...
04:26:54 <oerjan> nah
04:27:22 <oklopol> (lambda a:2**a+a)(s(4)/(.4))
04:27:26 <oklopol> == 37
04:27:31 <oklopol> but...
04:27:37 <oklopol> :P
04:27:59 <Figs> I think I did a way requireing only square as the weird thing we disallowed
04:28:22 <oklopol> yeah, that's make it trivial
04:28:25 <oklopol> *that'd
04:28:34 <Figs> 4^2 +4^2 + s(4) / .4
04:28:37 <oklopol> 32 would be 2 4's then
04:28:42 <oklopol> and 5 is 2 4's
04:28:55 <oklopol> yeah, exactly that actually :D
04:29:35 <oklopol> well.... we'll allow that and let oerjan slap us with his large trout if he doesn't like it! :D
04:29:45 <Figs> so we can do ^2?
04:29:53 <Figs> I think we'll need it higher up
04:29:55 <oklopol> though i'm pretty sure that's a mirc feature
04:30:15 * oerjan slaps oklopol with a large trout
04:30:26 <Figs> do you have a better way oerjan
04:30:27 <Figs> ?
04:30:28 <oklopol> well... i kinda like the idea of having lambdas... THOUGH might get quite easy :DD
04:30:45 <oklopol> i think i asked for that.
04:31:15 <Figs> Z(4,4,4,4) = 37
04:31:20 <Figs> yay
04:31:22 <Figs> I win
04:31:47 <oklopol> hmm... does unlambda have a wimpmode like `p4 -> 4, ``s``a424 -> 2?
04:31:48 <oklopol> actually
04:31:55 <oklopol> that'd be quite too easy
04:32:01 <oklopol> "quite too"
04:32:03 <oklopol> Z?
04:32:24 <Figs> O_o
04:32:26 <Figs> I got 95
04:32:41 <oklopol> hehe
04:32:41 <Figs> 44/(.4')-4
04:32:43 <Figs> =95
04:32:44 <oklopol> well, store it
04:32:54 <oklopol> now 38, we'll stick with that 37.
04:32:56 <Figs> 44/(.4')-4 = 95
04:32:57 <Figs> :P
04:32:57 <oklopol> well
04:32:59 <Figs> ok
04:33:01 <oklopol> (24 / .4` ) - (4*4) = 38
04:33:03 <oklopol> 39 now
04:33:04 <Figs> yay
04:33:09 <oklopol> hehe :D
04:33:10 <Figs> wait
04:33:12 <Figs> what?
04:33:15 <oklopol> :O
04:33:34 <Figs> yeah
04:33:35 <Figs> ok
04:33:37 <Figs> works
04:33:44 <oklopol> ...it was yours
04:33:44 <Figs> 54: (24/.4')
04:33:50 <oklopol> oh :D
04:33:51 <Figs> yeah... I just got mixed up
04:33:59 <Figs> 39
04:34:09 <Figs> so, assuming we can use squares
04:34:14 <Figs> I'll use @ to mean square
04:34:34 <oklopol> or... d(num) ?
04:34:45 <Figs> ok
04:34:46 <Figs> d
04:34:53 <oklopol> (i have my reasons :))
04:35:33 <oklopol> f(4)/b(4)-4*4 == 38 too
04:35:40 <Figs> 16/.4 - 4/4
04:35:46 <Figs> =39
04:35:47 <oklopol> oh
04:35:50 <Figs> b?
04:35:52 <oklopol> it's the exact same :)
04:35:53 <oklopol> bar
04:35:57 <Figs> ok
04:35:59 <Figs> what is d?
04:36:07 <Figs> I know it is ^2, but what word?
04:36:10 <oklopol> i had no d there...
04:36:13 <oklopol> hmm
04:36:15 <oklopol> i have no idea :D
04:36:21 <Figs> rofl
04:36:22 <Figs> ok
04:36:29 <Figs> so, we have 40 next!
04:36:30 <oklopol> felt right... but i don't know
04:36:33 <oklopol> haha easy!
04:36:36 <Figs> yep
04:36:42 <oklopol> (i think)
04:36:43 <Figs> 16 / .4 * 4/4
04:36:57 <Figs> =40
04:37:06 <Figs> 16/.4 = 40
04:37:07 <Figs> :P
04:37:12 <Figs> 40: 16/.4
04:37:16 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:37:17 <oklopol> nope
04:37:20 <oklopol> or?
04:37:24 <Figs> ?
04:37:28 <oklopol> 36 i think
04:37:29 <Figs> ahhh
04:37:30 <Figs> wait
04:37:38 <Figs> I used 5 fours
04:37:42 <Figs> dur
04:37:42 <oklopol> yeah
04:37:54 <Figs> 16/.4 = 40
04:37:56 <oklopol> 16/b(4)+s(4)+s(4)
04:37:58 <oklopol> yeah
04:37:59 <Figs> oh
04:37:59 <Figs> wait
04:38:01 <Figs> no I didn't
04:38:06 <Figs> 16 : d(4)
04:38:08 <oklopol> d(2)/b(4)+s(4)+s(4)
04:38:17 <oklopol> d(4)/b(4)+s(4)+s(4)
04:38:18 <oklopol> i mean
04:38:38 <oklopol> == 4
04:38:41 <oklopol> == 49
04:38:43 <oklopol> ==40
04:38:45 <oklopol> FUCK
04:38:46 <Figs> one letter functions are single ops, right?
04:38:46 <oklopol> anyway
04:38:51 <oklopol> yes
04:39:13 <Figs> d(4)/b(4) = 36
04:39:17 <Figs> for reference
04:39:25 <Figs> 41?
04:39:27 <oklopol> d(2)/b(4)+s(4)/0.4
04:39:29 <oklopol> == 41
04:39:31 <Figs> yep
04:39:31 <Figs> ok
04:39:32 <Figs> 42
04:39:52 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)-4-s(4)
04:39:56 <oklopol> == 42
04:40:09 <Figs> O_o
04:40:18 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)-s(4)/0.4
04:40:19 <Figs> yeah
04:40:19 <oklopol> == 43
04:40:24 <Figs> ok
04:40:29 <Figs> 44... I did 44 didn't I?
04:40:42 <oklopol> maybe
04:40:43 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)-s(4)-s(4)
04:40:46 <oklopol> == 44 anyway
04:40:55 <Figs> yeah
04:40:58 <Figs> 45
04:41:23 <Figs> 44+(4/4) = 45
04:41:31 <oklopol> yeah
04:41:33 <oklopol> 46 now
04:41:45 <oklopol> 44+4-s(4)
04:41:51 <oerjan> hm...
04:41:55 <Figs> 47
04:41:56 <oklopol> :|
04:42:23 <oklopol> i'm afraid of oerjan since this is his game, i feel like we are raping him while he's not watching
04:42:30 <Figs> O.o
04:42:32 <Figs> rofl
04:42:34 <oklopol> :D
04:42:38 <Figs> the version I looked up had d() in it
04:42:40 <Figs> and b()
04:42:43 <oerjan> it's not like i invented it or anything :)
04:42:51 <Figs> yeah, I've played it before
04:42:56 <Figs> though I think I only went to 20
04:43:01 <Figs> that was a pain in the ass :P
04:43:06 <Figs> first time
04:43:13 <Figs> ok, so 47?
04:43:37 <oklopol> 44+s(4)+s(4) 48 (again prolly)
04:43:42 <Figs> yeah
04:44:00 <oerjan> i was thinking about the combination function for binomial exponents
04:44:08 <oerjan> might have some use
04:44:18 <Figs> ?
04:44:21 <oklopol> ?
04:44:24 <oklopol> :D
04:44:42 <oerjan> (n over m) = n!/(m! * (n-m)!)
04:44:48 <oerjan> pascal's triangle
04:44:54 <Figs> 44/b(4) = @_@
04:45:00 <Figs> oops
04:45:03 <Figs> two things at once
04:45:04 <Figs> rofl
04:45:25 <oklopol> oerjan what kind of use?
04:45:30 <oklopol> ...esoteric use? :D
04:45:49 <oerjan> for this puzzle i mean
04:45:54 <oklopol> ah :D
04:46:13 <Figs> what are we up to?
04:46:14 <Figs> 47?
04:46:20 <oklopol> 47 is now yeah
04:46:28 <Figs> oh, that's easy
04:46:43 <Figs> or not
04:46:44 <Figs> :P
04:46:51 <Figs> I got a way with 5 by mistake
04:47:14 <oklopol> 44+s(4)/.4 = 49 anyways
04:47:41 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)-(4/4) == 47
04:47:45 <oklopol> right?
04:47:58 <oklopol> so... 50 next?
04:48:09 <oklopol> 44+4+s(4) == 50
04:48:12 <oklopol> 51 next?
04:48:17 <Figs> ah so easy! yeah ...
04:48:38 <Figs> 44+4+4 = 52
04:48:48 <Figs> (obviously)
04:49:20 <Figs> oh!!
04:49:22 <Figs> I got it
04:49:23 <Figs> hold on
04:49:36 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)+s(4)/0.4 == 53
04:50:19 <Figs> f(4)/.4 - 4/b(4) - 51
04:50:32 <Figs> 60: f(4) / .4
04:50:38 <Figs> 9 : 4/b
04:50:48 <oklopol> cool, yeah
04:50:57 <Figs> 54
04:51:20 <Figs> f(4)/b(.4) *4/4 = 54
04:51:25 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-4-s(4)
04:51:28 <oklopol> hmm
04:51:34 <oklopol> yeah
04:51:36 <oklopol> now 55
04:51:38 <oklopol> well
04:51:40 <oklopol> trivial
04:51:49 <Figs> hmm?
04:51:57 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-s(4)/0.4
04:52:06 <Figs> yeah
04:52:08 <oklopol> we have so many numbers it's becoming easy :)
04:52:10 <Figs> :P
04:52:11 <oklopol> 56
04:52:22 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-s(4)-s(4)
04:52:25 <oklopol> now 57
04:53:20 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)+4/b
04:53:23 <oklopol> is 57
04:53:26 <oklopol> now 58
04:53:43 <Figs> d(4)*4-4-s(4)
04:53:45 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-4/s(4)
04:53:48 <oklopol> :D
04:53:56 <oklopol> yeah
04:53:59 <oklopol> now 59
04:54:08 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-4/4
04:54:10 <oklopol> okay
04:54:12 <oklopol> now 60
04:54:16 <Figs> f(4)/.4 - 4/4
04:54:24 <oklopol> f(4)/.4-4+4
04:54:26 <Figs> ah, I'm too slow :P
04:54:28 <oklopol> :)
04:54:31 <oklopol> now 61
04:54:39 <oklopol> f(4)/.4+4/4
04:54:41 <oklopol> okay
04:54:43 <oklopol> now 62
04:54:52 <oklopol> d(4)*4-4+s(4)
04:54:53 <oklopol> okay
04:54:55 <oklopol> now 63
04:55:03 <oklopol> hmm
04:55:12 <Figs> d(4)*4 - (4/4)
04:55:28 <Figs> = 63
04:55:31 <oklopol> yeah
04:55:32 <oklopol> 4*4*(s(4)+s(4))
04:55:34 <oklopol> == 64
04:55:36 <Figs> d(4)*4 * 4/4 = 64
04:55:46 <Figs> ok
04:55:57 <Figs> d(4)*4 + 4/4 = 65
04:56:20 <oklopol> f(4)+f(4)+f(4)-4 = 68
04:56:25 <oklopol> ah
04:56:32 <oklopol> fuck i forgot d again xD
04:56:35 <Figs> d = square
04:56:42 <oklopol> "4*4*4" damn that's too long.....
04:56:44 <oklopol> :P
04:56:45 <oklopol> i mean
04:56:49 <oklopol> forgot it existed
04:56:52 <oklopol> okay
04:56:52 <Figs> :P
04:56:54 <oklopol> now 66
04:56:56 <Figs> ahh
04:56:57 <Figs> yeah :D
04:57:06 <oklopol> d(4)*4 + 4/s(4) = 65
04:57:09 <oklopol> d(4)*4 + 4/s(4) = 66 i mean
04:57:13 <Figs> ok
04:58:14 <oklopol> d(4)*4+f(4)/4 = 70
04:58:28 <Figs> how to make 60 again?
04:58:32 <Figs> f(4) / .4 ?
04:58:38 <Figs> yeah
04:58:43 <oklopol> yeah
05:00:54 <Figs> f(4)/b + d(4) - s(4) = 68
05:01:12 <Figs> 54 + 16 - 2
05:04:41 <oklopol> hmph
05:05:44 <Figs> hmm
05:06:00 <Figs> well, remember, we can use f() d() and b() and s() as functions of other things too
05:07:23 <oklopol> hehe s(b(4)) == 0.666...
05:07:29 <oklopol> though
05:07:33 <oklopol> haven't found any use :)
05:07:37 <Figs> I have
05:07:38 <Figs> :D
05:07:41 <Figs> I think I got one
05:07:44 <Figs> hold on
05:07:59 <Figs> nope
05:09:06 <Figs> d(4/b(.4))-(4/b(4)) = 72
05:09:47 <oklopol> 4*4*4*4 = 256
05:09:55 <Figs> :P
05:10:13 <Figs> oh!!!
05:10:24 <oklopol> found it?
05:10:28 <Figs> no
05:10:34 <Figs> but I did find something cool
05:10:38 <Figs> hold on
05:11:00 <Figs> 44 / s(b(4)) = 66
05:11:11 <Figs> only uses 3 fours though
05:11:18 <oklopol> yep :\
05:11:36 <oklopol> darn, i had all the functions in python... now i crashed it :)
05:11:47 <oklopol> 4**4**4**4 (** == ^)
05:12:07 <Figs> lol
05:12:08 <oklopol> oerjan what's your haskell interpreter like btw?
05:12:08 <Figs> :D
05:12:34 <oklopol> since the reason i'm not using haskell is i can easily use the python interpreter, the haskell interpreter sucks
05:13:40 <oklopol> hmm
05:13:53 <oklopol> i'm making a list of the shortest possible way to construct a number
05:13:55 <oklopol> pb.vjn.fi/p363163442.txt
05:14:00 <Figs> mmm
05:14:01 <oklopol> http://pb.vjn.fi/p363163442.txt
05:14:04 <oklopol> but
05:14:07 <oklopol> 7 is bad now
05:14:12 <oklopol> i think you can do it with 2
05:14:18 <Figs> o.o
05:14:30 <oklopol> since i'm forgetting some nice ways to do numbers
05:14:37 <oklopol> a look-up table'd be nice
05:14:41 <Figs> d(4) -( 4 / b(4))
05:15:01 <Figs> 16 - 9 = 7
05:15:07 <Figs> b(.4) , I mean
05:15:12 <Figs> bar over .4
05:15:21 <Figs> well, I guess b(4) makes sense too :P
05:15:27 <Figs> since 44444444.... is useless
05:15:34 <Figs> oh!!
05:15:35 <Figs> YES
05:15:37 <Figs> I got it
05:15:38 <Figs> :)
05:15:39 <Figs> 66
05:15:43 <Figs> 44 / s(b(44)) = 66
05:15:53 <Figs> .44 repeating
05:15:56 <oklopol> 66 is ewld.
05:15:58 <Figs> .44 44 44 44 44
05:16:04 <Figs> :D
05:16:10 <Figs> w00t!
05:16:17 <oklopol> :D
05:16:40 <Figs> the rest of the people here are going to hate us :P
05:16:44 <Figs> when they see the size of their logs
05:16:47 <oklopol> :P
05:17:00 <Figs> ok
05:17:02 <Figs> 67
05:17:12 <oklopol> i think they'll find this most entertaining
05:17:17 <Figs> :D
05:18:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lost terminal").
05:18:29 <RodgerTheGreat> good night everyone
05:18:34 <oklopol> night
05:18:34 <Figs> night rodger
05:18:42 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
05:18:57 <oklopol> 1: 4/4
05:18:57 <oklopol> 2: s(4)
05:18:57 <oklopol> 3: 4-4/4
05:18:57 <oklopol> 4: 4
05:18:57 <oklopol> 5: s(4)/.4
05:18:57 <oklopol> 6: 4+s(4)
05:18:59 <oklopol> 7: 4+4-4/4
05:19:01 <oklopol> 8: 4+4
05:19:03 <oklopol> 9: 4/b(4)
05:19:06 <oklopol> 10: 4/.4
05:19:15 <Figs> :D
05:19:15 <oklopol> i think these are pretty good... but i'd like to have allz
05:19:22 <Figs> yeah
05:19:40 <oklopol> wanna copy/paste all from the logs? :X
05:19:40 <oklopol> D
05:19:41 <oklopol> :D
05:19:44 <Figs> not really
05:19:49 <oklopol> hehe
05:19:52 <oklopol> i'll
05:19:53 <Figs> that's the kind of thing that awk and sed should be used for
05:19:58 <Figs> if only
05:20:01 <Figs> :P
05:20:13 <Figs> if only we'd been nicer :P
05:20:18 <Figs> and put = on all lines with answers
05:20:35 <Figs> well, let's see
05:20:39 <Figs> did you add that to the file?
05:21:56 <oklopol> no... i won't
05:22:01 <oklopol> i thought i might
05:22:04 <oklopol> but... nooooo
05:22:16 <oklopol> hmm
05:22:18 <oklopol> no
05:22:38 <Figs> I'll add one
05:22:49 <oklopol> oki
05:23:20 <Figs> make rules for 24, 36, 54, 60, and 81
05:23:26 <Figs> since we have those
05:23:27 <Figs> I think
05:23:29 <Figs> and 20
05:23:36 <Figs> and whatever is obvious from those
05:23:37 <Figs> :D
05:23:59 <Figs> my server is slow is why
05:25:52 <Figs> http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/bits.txt
05:25:53 <Figs> there
05:27:44 <oklopol> hmm... i can't find a way
05:27:45 <oklopol> damn
05:27:52 <Figs> for what?
05:27:57 <oklopol> 67
05:28:02 <Figs> it's 60 + 7
05:28:05 <Figs> I think
05:28:12 <oklopol> mja
05:28:38 <Figs> oh
05:28:43 <Figs> that'd give you 5
05:28:44 <Figs> woops
05:29:14 <oklopol> let's allow lambdas, (lambda a,b,c,d : <function here>)(4,4,4,4)
05:29:20 <Figs> how do I unsuspend a job?
05:29:23 <Figs> in unix? :X
05:29:24 <oklopol> and ONLY 4 numbers!
05:29:34 <oklopol> i haven't used unix
05:29:35 <Figs> I don't understand lambdas :(
05:29:35 <oklopol> :)
05:29:46 <oklopol> lambda is just a nameless function
05:30:37 <oklopol> (\ a, b, c, d -> a + b) 4 4 4 4 would be 8
05:30:50 <oklopol> the lambda is called with 4,4,4 and 4
05:30:58 <oklopol> and a b c d are the args
05:31:23 <oklopol> that was a haskell lambda (almost at least)
05:31:25 <Figs> would be fun
05:31:29 <oklopol> no
05:31:30 <Figs> but I think that's kind of cheating :P
05:31:32 <oklopol> would be too trivial :)
05:31:34 <oklopol> yeah
05:31:46 <oklopol> since it actually means infinite 4's
05:31:51 <Figs> :P
05:32:07 <oklopol> making n (4/4)+(4/4)+(4/4)...
05:32:07 <Figs> well, that's another sort of problem
05:32:10 <Figs> for our next game
05:32:15 <oklopol> i did it.
05:32:17 <oklopol> all of it.
05:32:25 <Figs> ?
05:32:29 <Figs> did wot?
05:32:31 <oklopol> with infinite 4's
05:32:33 <oklopol> all numbers
05:32:34 <Figs> lol
05:32:35 <Figs> :D
05:32:36 <oklopol> natural
05:32:38 <Figs> nono
05:32:44 <Figs> shortest possible
05:32:46 <Figs> with 4's
05:32:48 <oklopol> oh :)
05:32:55 <Figs> lambda's ok
05:33:01 <Figs> if you can find a way to work it
05:33:04 <oklopol> we can start having unlambda competitions
05:33:07 <Figs> but it adds to the count
05:33:18 <Figs> I could write a simple interpreter for this :D
05:33:32 <oklopol> (i already have one)
05:33:36 <Figs> lol :D
05:33:37 <oklopol> (it's called python)
05:33:39 <Figs> no
05:33:42 <Figs> I mean, specifically
05:33:44 <Figs> for the 4's game
05:33:49 <oklopol> hehe oki :D
05:33:52 <Figs> (with an ini file for the number worked with)
05:34:05 <Figs> once you do something like
05:34:08 <Figs> 2: _____
05:34:18 <Figs> it counts the number of x's needed to do it
05:34:38 <Figs> and would create a set of observers
05:34:45 <Figs> to update dependancies
05:34:57 <Figs> so if you find a faster way to do 3, for example
05:35:01 <Figs> and 17 relies on 3
05:35:06 <Figs> 17 gets faster :D
05:35:36 <Figs> could get very complicated :P
05:35:50 <Figs> I'll try that later
05:35:53 <Figs> now, let's find 67
05:36:47 <Figs> is there a faster way to do 36 than d(4+s(4))?
05:37:22 <oklopol> 4/b(s(4)) 18 btw
05:37:26 <oklopol> and no
05:37:35 <oklopol> you can't do 32 with ONE 4
05:37:36 <oklopol> ...
05:38:17 <oklopol> you can do 4^n with one 4
05:38:22 <oklopol> actually...
05:38:31 <oklopol> you might be able to do anything with just one 4
05:38:42 <Figs> O.o :D
05:38:49 <Figs> 2^5
05:39:05 <Figs> you can do it with 2 easily
05:39:39 <oklopol> you have factorization, squareroot and square
05:39:42 <Figs> s(4)*d(4)
05:39:57 <oklopol> you might be able to make any number with those
05:40:15 <oklopol> assuming factorization is generalized for non natural numbers
05:40:25 <oklopol> like f(b(4))
05:40:26 <Figs> you mean factorial, I presume?
05:40:34 <oklopol> i might mean that
05:40:42 <Figs> factorization is like, 36 = 6*6 = 3*2*3*2...
05:40:51 <oklopol> let's have a factorization function though
05:40:54 <Figs> :P
05:40:55 <oklopol> so we have lists
05:40:56 <Figs> eep
05:41:17 <Figs> how did i do 54?
05:41:18 <oklopol> i know what factorization is, i just confuse terms :)
05:41:24 <oklopol> errrrr
05:41:27 <oklopol> hard to remember
05:41:33 <Figs> 16/b(4)?
05:41:45 <oklopol> f(4)/b(.4) *4/4
05:41:57 <Figs> no, the short way ;)
05:42:22 <oklopol> 16/b(4) = 36
05:42:39 <Figs> oh :P
05:42:45 <oklopol> f(4)/b(4)
05:42:59 <oklopol> that's 54, *4/4 is a nop
05:43:14 <Figs> 60: f(4)/.4
05:44:24 <Figs> ok
05:44:27 <Figs> I'm updating my rules list
05:44:39 <Figs> to include bigger ones
05:45:07 <Figs> can you access it still?
05:45:25 <oklopol> yeah
05:45:26 <oklopol> cool
05:45:29 <Figs> :D
05:45:57 <Figs> so, 67
05:45:57 <oklopol> i could make a pagebin on vjn.fi
05:46:02 <Figs> *shrug*
05:46:07 <oklopol> so you could make pages quickly
05:46:10 <oklopol> and update
05:46:17 <Figs> well, I can update relatively quickly
05:46:19 <oklopol> so... pastebin with mutability
05:46:28 <oklopol> prolly
05:46:29 <Figs> it is just a matter of connecting to my school's network
05:46:45 <oklopol> yeah, i mean for general usage
05:46:48 <Figs> eh
05:46:50 <Figs> ;)
05:46:54 <Figs> ^_^
05:47:08 <Figs> this is useful for me for now
05:47:10 <Figs> but go ahead
05:47:12 <oklopol> and... my usage, i can't connect to your school's network :)
05:47:14 <Figs> that will probably grow faster
05:47:28 <Figs> well, you probably could
05:47:33 <Figs> the security isn't very good
05:47:33 <Figs> :P
05:47:37 <Figs> but I wouldn't recommend it
05:47:56 <Figs> 67
05:47:59 <Figs> then I need to go to bed
05:48:04 <oklopol> i wouldn't... but fucking 67
05:48:08 <oklopol> it's 8 am soon
05:48:13 <Figs> :(
05:48:16 <Figs> eep, sorry
05:48:19 <Figs> I kept you up all night
05:48:20 <oklopol> i'll start reading in a mo
05:48:21 <oklopol> nah
05:48:24 <oklopol> i slept all day
05:48:35 <oklopol> 14 -> 00.00 or something
05:49:31 <oklopol> meh... i think i'll go read, i'll make a program to brute me 67 later today ;)
05:49:35 <Figs> :P
05:55:28 <oklopol> Figs if you know asm && seveninchbread if you making the os, http://www.kernelthread.com/hanoi/ check out hanoi os
05:55:40 <oklopol> (plus of course the others if you haven't yet)
05:55:44 <Figs> my asm is crappy :)
05:55:56 <oklopol> did you finish the hello world?
05:55:59 <Figs> oh
05:56:03 <Figs> I forgot about that, lol
05:56:07 <Figs> I got so caught up in this :P
05:56:07 <oklopol> haha :)
05:56:23 <Figs> I can't figure out why
05:56:26 <oklopol> yeah... can't claim i've done anything else either :)
05:56:26 <Figs> mov dl, ptr msg
05:56:28 <Figs> doesn't work
05:56:31 <oklopol> hmm
05:56:38 <oklopol> [msg] ?
05:56:41 <oklopol> ptr is what?
05:56:48 <Figs> value of msg
05:56:53 <oklopol> oka
05:56:55 <oklopol> y
05:57:08 <oklopol> mov moves values?
05:57:11 <Figs> yes
05:57:14 <oklopol> i mean
05:57:19 <oklopol> mov moves strings?
05:57:20 <Figs> dl = [msg]
05:57:25 <oklopol> ah
05:57:25 <Figs> no
05:57:26 <oklopol> okay
05:57:31 <Figs> msg is db "a"
05:57:35 <Figs> msg db "a"
05:57:38 <oklopol> "a",0 i think
05:57:42 <Figs> mov dl, [msg]
05:57:47 <Figs> int 21h
05:57:48 <oklopol> you want it zero padded
05:57:51 <oklopol> or?
05:57:52 <Figs> (I have set AH to 02h)
05:57:53 <Figs> no
05:57:56 <oklopol> okay
05:57:56 <Figs> it shouldn't matter
05:58:02 <Figs> since
05:58:06 <Figs> mov dl, 'a'
05:58:08 <Figs> works
05:58:18 <oklopol> so it just prints one char?
05:58:24 <oklopol> i know it can print more
05:58:34 <oklopol> but anyway, easy to do it with that
05:58:39 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/Psz7PD47.html
05:58:41 <oklopol> just looooooopz
05:58:48 <Figs> that's the idea
05:58:51 <Figs> loop until \0
05:58:55 <Figs> jne top
05:59:00 <Figs> if == quit
05:59:09 <oklopol> BUT i'm pretty sure there is a way to print a whole string built-in...
05:59:14 <Figs> yeah
05:59:14 <oklopol> *built in
05:59:18 <Figs> if you want to terminate wtih $
05:59:20 <Figs> which I didn't want to do
05:59:29 <oklopol> hmm
05:59:46 <oklopol> weird terminator
06:00:09 <Figs> yep
06:00:55 <Figs> OOHHH
06:00:57 <oklopol> hmm... it'd be fun to do something like hanoimania with another problem
06:00:59 <Figs> I am a fucking idiot!
06:01:02 <Figs> ROFL
06:01:07 <oklopol> probably bf in my case :)
06:01:13 <oklopol> oh :D
06:01:15 <oklopol> i didn't know that
06:01:19 <oklopol> what?
06:01:30 <Figs> I'm defining it in the code for goodness sakes
06:01:34 <Figs> so it's executing 'a'
06:01:39 <Figs> XD
06:01:43 <oklopol> huh?
06:01:52 <Figs> ok,
06:01:53 <oklopol> defining what?
06:01:55 <Figs> look where I have it
06:01:58 <Figs> org 100h
06:02:02 <Figs> msg db 'a'
06:02:10 <Figs> 'a' is the first instruction being called >.<
06:02:14 <Figs> no seperation of code and data :P
06:02:17 <Figs> me == idiot
06:02:25 <oklopol> org?
06:02:37 <Figs> that just skips some space for like, magic stuff :)
06:02:52 <Figs> (ie, I need it, or it doesn't work, but I don't remember what it does ...)
06:03:25 <oklopol> now why is 'a' the first instruction being called?
06:03:40 <oklopol> i did not understnad
06:03:45 <oklopol> *understand
06:04:16 <Figs> ok... if I looked at the output
06:04:19 <Figs> it'd be something like
06:04:29 <Figs> a 0xFE 0x21 ...
06:04:32 <Figs> :P
06:04:39 <Figs> or whatever
06:04:51 <Figs> it put the byte, 'a', literally
06:04:53 <Figs> at the start
06:04:55 <Figs> :P
06:04:56 <oklopol> ah
06:05:00 <oklopol> oh :)
06:05:02 <Figs> so it see's OH, first instruction is "a"
06:05:02 <Figs> wtf
06:05:04 <Figs> AHHH!
06:05:06 <Figs> error
06:05:07 <Figs> :D
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06:05:38 <oklopol> actually... i still don't see why 'a' is the first instruction
06:05:45 <oklopol> or... why would it be an instruction
06:05:56 <Figs> put it in fasm
06:05:59 <Figs> and compile
06:06:02 <Figs> and look at the output
06:06:04 <Figs> with a hex editor ;)
06:06:12 <Figs> you will see 'a' there
06:06:14 <Figs> ;)
06:06:15 <oklopol> i assume you meant you were outputting values at address 97 in memory
06:06:17 <oklopol> hmm
06:06:27 <oklopol> but... why? :O
06:06:33 <Figs> it will make more sense
06:07:49 <oklopol> it outputs 'a' as it's supposed to :O
06:10:14 <oklopol> B402B261CD21B8004CCD21 is the .com
06:10:15 <oklopol> anyway
06:10:25 <Figs> ... O.o
06:10:27 <Figs> no
06:10:29 <Figs> wrong program
06:10:32 <Figs> you didn't change it
06:10:33 <oklopol> oh :O
06:10:34 <Figs> add
06:10:38 <Figs> msg db 'a'
06:10:39 <Figs> to the top
06:10:48 <Figs> (after org 100h)
06:11:12 <oklopol> ah, then :)
06:11:17 <oklopol> you pasted the old one
06:11:56 <oklopol> msg db 'a' means put 'a' here and substitute this address for every 'msg' in the code?
06:12:03 <Figs> no
06:12:04 <Figs> it means
06:12:10 <Figs> make the byte 'a' in the output
06:12:14 <Figs> and when I refer to msg
06:12:19 <Figs> refer to the address of that byte
06:12:27 <oklopol> output=?
06:12:31 <oklopol> code output?
06:12:48 <oklopol> isn't that exactly what i said?
06:12:48 <Figs> output = object code
06:12:52 <oklopol> yeah
06:12:57 <Figs> no, it's not
06:13:00 <oklopol> okay
06:13:04 <oklopol> what's the difference?
06:13:14 <Figs> oh
06:13:15 <Figs> it is
06:13:17 <Figs> nevermind
06:13:20 <Figs> I misread it :P
06:13:23 <Figs> sorry :)
06:13:25 <Figs> my bad
06:13:29 <oklopol> thought so, i wasn't being that clear
06:13:36 <Figs> I thought you wrote "substitute this"
06:13:55 <Figs> (ie, replace msg with 'a' litterally, which it does not do)
06:14:20 <oklopol> yeah, i almost wrote that, but corrected just before saying it
06:14:26 <oklopol> maybe you sensed that
06:14:35 <Figs> lol
06:15:20 <oklopol> but, i'm gonna go now :) check out the hanoi os if you have a spare machine or smth, i read the source, seems trivial ----->
06:15:36 <Figs> ok
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06:56:03 <Figs> Hey oklopol
06:56:04 <Figs> I did it
06:56:33 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/SWRswb26.html
06:56:42 <Figs> now I am going to bed! :P
06:56:44 <Figs> cya
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13:51:35 <SimonRC> http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/bits.txt
13:52:07 <SimonRC> oops
14:54:41 -!- sirKIIdC has joined.
14:54:47 <sirKIIdC> hi ::)
14:54:56 <sirKIIdC> !
14:55:04 <sirKIIdC> brainfuck
14:55:09 <sirKIIdC> help!
14:55:25 <sirKIIdC> how I can give the bot brainfuck-script
14:59:16 <oklopol> teh Bot.
15:01:17 <oklopol> ~bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.
15:01:18 <bsmnt_bot> A
15:01:29 <oklopol> if your mean any bot / bsmnt_bot
15:04:19 <sirKIIdC> thx
15:04:21 <sirKIIdC> ::)
15:04:34 <sirKIIdC> ~bf ++++++.
15:04:34 <bsmnt_bot>
15:04:39 <sirKIIdC> ~bf +++++++++++++++++++.
15:04:39 <bsmnt_bot>
15:04:43 <sirKIIdC> ~bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:04:43 <bsmnt_bot> )
15:04:48 <sirKIIdC> ~bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:04:48 <bsmnt_bot> 0
15:04:56 <sirKIIdC> ~bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:04:56 <bsmnt_bot> 1
15:06:21 <oklopol> you seems to be a real brainfuck wiz
15:06:24 <oklopol> :)
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15:13:17 <sirKIIdC> ::P
15:52:38 -!- Figs has joined.
15:52:45 <Figs> hello
15:53:24 <Figs> :D
15:53:28 <Figs> 40 byte hello world program
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15:54:52 <RodgerTheGreat> hello
15:54:55 <oklopol> !exec "Hello, world!"PrntNl
15:54:56 <oklobot> Hello, world!
15:54:58 <oklopol> 21 byte hello world
15:55:03 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
15:55:13 <RodgerTheGreat> what language?
15:55:43 <oklopol> i call it oklobot, since i never really named it
15:55:58 <Figs> x86 assembly
15:55:59 <sirKIIdC> !exec "Lala"PrntNL
15:56:16 <oklopol> !exec "Lala"PrntNL
15:56:17 <oklopol> !exec "Lala"PrntNl
15:56:19 <oklobot> LalaPRIVMSG #esoteric :LalaPRIVMSG #esoteric :Lala
15:56:21 <oklopol> !exec "Lala"PrntNl
15:56:23 <oklobot> Lala
15:56:27 <Figs> oklopol -- did you see? I pasted code last night
15:56:31 <oklopol> it fails if nl's are abused
15:56:37 <oklopol> i did, but i've been reading all day
15:56:43 <oklopol> (okay, 2 hours)
15:56:57 <Figs> :blink:
15:57:08 <sirKIIdC> whirl is strange language
15:57:11 <oklopol> now once again, oerjan's quine
15:57:12 <oklopol> !exec "!exec ""34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl"34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl
15:57:13 <oklobot> !exec "!exec ""34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl"34ChrDblRotAddDblAddRotRotAddDblAddSwpAddPrntNl
15:57:16 <oklopol> :)
15:57:22 <oklopol> i never get tired of it
15:57:49 <oklopol> i remember adding something to that while keeping it quine still... but couldn't find a trivial way to do that
15:57:52 <oklopol> now i mean
15:58:19 <oklopol> something like: "look, an oklobot quine! :P"
15:58:42 <Figs> quines give me headaches :(
15:58:53 <Figs> imagine writing a program to write quines in assembly...
15:58:58 <RodgerTheGreat> man, I missed out on some fun this morning
15:59:17 <oklopol> you mean the 4 game? :P
15:59:19 <Figs> I'll bet quines are easy in Lisp
15:59:24 <Figs> oh yah :P
15:59:32 <oklopol> Figs i think not especially
15:59:35 <oklopol> oh
15:59:38 <oklopol> actually
15:59:40 <oklopol> probably :)
15:59:50 <Figs> http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/bits.txt
15:59:52 <Figs> RodgerTheGreat
15:59:54 <Figs> :D
16:00:01 <Figs> some short-ish ways to do various numbers
16:00:06 <Figs> we got stuck on 67
16:00:12 <Figs> if I remember
16:00:14 <RodgerTheGreat> interesting
16:00:18 <oklopol> yeah
16:00:18 <oklopol> 67
16:00:29 <oklopol> i'll go read --------->
16:01:04 <RodgerTheGreat> are you doing this entirely with 4s to attempt to generate numbers with bit-switching, or just for fun?
16:01:15 <Figs> fun
16:01:23 <Figs> you must use four 4s
16:01:27 <RodgerTheGreat> I could've guessed. :)
16:01:27 <Figs> to make each number
16:01:43 <Figs> these are just short ways so we can put them together for other ones
16:02:17 <RodgerTheGreat> so clearly, things like 32 are as simple as d(4)+d(4)
16:02:32 <Figs> the short version... yeah
16:02:42 <Figs> but for the game,
16:02:44 <Figs> you would need
16:02:46 <Figs> something like
16:02:54 <Figs> (d(4)+d(4))*4/4
16:03:00 <Figs> must be 4
16:03:02 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah
16:03:13 <RodgerTheGreat> alright, I understand
16:03:18 <Figs> :D
16:03:43 <sirKIIdC> ::P
16:07:00 <sirKIIdC> i am writing another interpreter for my language, wich is like whirl - it has two commands - 0 and 1
16:12:56 <Figs> holy crap
16:12:58 <Figs> I got 67
16:13:56 <Figs> ( d(d(4)) +d(4)-4 ) / 4 = 67
16:14:49 * RodgerTheGreat high-fives Figs
16:15:06 <Figs> thanks :D
16:15:21 <RodgerTheGreat> does anyone think we could have success by writing a program to bruteforce these combinations?
16:15:45 <Figs> maybe, but I wouldn't recommend it :P
16:16:01 <RodgerTheGreat> why do you say that?
16:16:06 <Figs> very hard
16:16:13 <Figs> you'd have to set up the entire program in a tree
16:16:26 <Figs> with god knows how many levels of depth
16:16:31 <RodgerTheGreat> recursion. mmm.
16:16:53 <Figs> anyway
16:17:06 <Figs> I thought of another way to make the game last night
16:17:31 <Figs> shortest combinations to get to n
16:17:32 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd just say, 8 possible operations, a limit of nested functions, and a requirement to use 4 4s.
16:17:57 <Figs> don't forget I can do things like
16:18:30 <Figs> (d(d(d(d(d(d(d(d(4)))))))-s(4))*d(4)-d(4)
16:18:35 <RodgerTheGreat> yes
16:19:06 <RodgerTheGreat> that's part of the "limit of nested functions" thing so the program doesn't i-loop
16:19:10 <Figs> well, if you would like to write the program
16:19:13 <Figs> go for it :D
16:19:30 <Figs> and actually
16:19:34 <Figs> there are 9 operations
16:19:50 <RodgerTheGreat> I might, but I have to finish some homework today
16:20:00 <Figs> +, -, *, /, s,d,f,b,^
16:20:10 <RodgerTheGreat> and by "today" I mean "this afternoon"
16:20:11 <Figs> and you can use 44, .4, etc
16:20:14 <RodgerTheGreat> good point
16:20:16 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
16:20:36 <Figs> ...68!
16:21:40 <Figs> f(4)+f(4)+f(4)-4 = 68
16:23:58 -!- jix__ has joined.
16:24:02 <Figs> hi
16:24:43 <RodgerTheGreat> hello, jix
16:25:00 <RodgerTheGreat> (+/- some underscores)
16:26:33 <Figs> (d(d(4))+f(4)-4)/4 = 69
16:26:58 <RodgerTheGreat> that's a good one to have
16:27:21 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. We are in dire need of 42
16:27:21 <Figs> 4*d(4)+4+s(4) = 70
16:27:35 <Figs> 44-s(4)? :P
16:28:27 <RodgerTheGreat> aw
16:28:39 <RodgerTheGreat> but that only uses 3
16:28:48 <Figs> (d(d(4))+f(4)+4)/4 = 71
16:28:52 <Figs> we did 42 last night
16:28:54 <Figs> let me look it up
16:29:17 <RodgerTheGreat> it isn't on that thing you pastebinned
16:29:28 <Figs> it's shortcuts
16:30:14 <Figs> oklopol: f(4)+f(4)-4-s(4) = 42
16:30:47 <RodgerTheGreat> yes
16:31:37 <Figs> f(4)*(s(4)+4/4) = 72
16:31:44 <RodgerTheGreat> will there ultimately be an esolang based on this concept, seeing as it appears you can use the 4x4 approach for virtually any number, at least <100
16:31:54 <Figs> ;)
16:31:57 <RodgerTheGreat> and for some much larger
16:32:07 <Figs> dddddddddd(4)
16:32:08 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
16:32:16 <Figs> :P
16:32:21 <Figs> (for example)
16:32:53 <RodgerTheGreat> but remember, the larger you get the more difficult it'll be to obtain precisely the number you need through addition and subtraction of lower power values
16:32:55 <Figs> your task, rodger, should you choose to accept it.... and ye must! ... is to determine whether or not there is a number that cannot be made with our rules
16:33:03 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
16:33:32 <RodgerTheGreat> ok
16:33:34 <RodgerTheGreat> here is the basis upon which I shall construct one:
16:33:48 <RodgerTheGreat> very large numbers must be made via factorials or powering.
16:34:14 <RodgerTheGreat> with each increasing term of these functions, their output grows faster
16:34:35 <RodgerTheGreat> thus, there is greater separation between the numbers that can be created with this method
16:34:43 <RodgerTheGreat> follow me?
16:34:47 <Figs> k
16:35:27 <Figs> the question just seems to be whether or not there are enough tricks to bridge that gap
16:35:35 <Figs> and there probably aren't ... :P
16:35:55 <Figs> where is the first number we cannot derive from 4 fours?
16:36:00 <RodgerTheGreat> how about we try a simpler proof that can be used to prove the larger one?
16:36:22 <RodgerTheGreat> what is the largest series of consecutive numbers that can be generated with 3 fours?
16:36:22 <Figs> *shrug*
16:36:32 <Figs> I have no idea :P
16:36:44 <RodgerTheGreat> and I mean largest in terms of "most" AND "highest value"
16:36:56 <Figs> :P
16:37:04 <RodgerTheGreat> because knowing *THIS*, we'll be able to determine what the largest "gap" is we can cross
16:37:07 <Figs> I'm gonna find the rest up to 100
16:37:19 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm pretty sure that should be entirely possible
16:38:31 <RodgerTheGreat> see if you can find some type of repeating pattern for generating consecutive numbers
16:38:47 <Figs> (d(d(4))+s(4)/b(4))/4 = 73
16:40:04 <RodgerTheGreat> OOH
16:40:36 <RodgerTheGreat> we could do the "gap" proof recursively, by first proving the largest series of consecutives for one, then 2, and finally 3 4s
16:40:48 <Figs> ;/
16:40:50 <Figs> ok
16:41:23 <Figs> f(4)+f(4)+f(4)+s(4) = 74
16:42:03 <Figs> (d(d(4))+44)/4 = 75
16:42:06 <RodgerTheGreat> I see the general form of these as always (foo1(4) operator foo2(4) operator foo3(4) operator foo4(4))
16:42:24 <Figs> I think it is a bit more complex
16:42:26 <Figs> since it can be
16:42:34 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. yes. nested functions
16:42:35 <Figs> op(op(op.... 4)
16:42:50 <RodgerTheGreat> foo1(foo2(4) operator foo3(4))
16:43:06 <Figs> functions are effectively unary operators
16:43:12 <Figs> and operators are binary operators
16:43:15 <Figs> :P
16:43:19 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah
16:43:43 <Figs> f(4)+f(4)+f(4)+4 = 76
16:45:03 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) -s(4) - s(4) = 77
16:45:28 <RodgerTheGreat> I think the trick might be a huge number with a difference that's a large multiple of 3 or 7 away from a power or ! of 4.
16:45:49 <Figs> don't forget I can also do d(d(4)) = 256
16:45:50 <oklopol> 67 was indeed trivial once you figured you 268 is close to 256
16:45:52 <Figs> and 44
16:45:58 <Figs> ;)
16:45:58 <oklopol> that was a clever one indeed
16:46:01 <Figs> thank you
16:46:38 <RodgerTheGreat> multiples of 3 and 7 require at least two fours to express, and a third would be dedicated to the large number
16:46:46 <oklopol> clever, though trivial, since i found the answer before i'd read what was inside (...)/4 = 67 :)
16:46:50 <oklopol> 268 = 256+12
16:46:54 <oklopol> and 12 = 16-4
16:47:11 <oklopol> but, i'm still reading!
16:47:18 <oklopol> --------------------->
16:47:21 <Figs> ;)
16:48:53 <oklopol> oh! let's do 4 i 4 i 4 i 4 i + same ops -> complex natural numbers n + mi :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
16:49:06 <Figs> @.@
16:49:21 <oklopol> or... maybe not
16:49:30 <oklopol> GO oklopol GO -------------------->
16:49:41 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl- food
16:49:46 <Figs> let's finish 100 first ;D
16:51:52 <Figs> 4*f(4)-(d(4)+s(4))
16:51:55 <Figs> =78
16:52:05 <Figs> 4*f(4)-(d(4)+s(4)) = 78
16:53:58 <Figs> d(4/b(4))-s(d(4)/4) = 79
16:54:19 <sirKIIdC> what is it?
16:54:23 <Figs> d(4/b(4))-4/4 = 80
16:54:49 <Figs> that would be 81 - sqrt( 16 / 4 ) = 79 ;)
16:55:35 <Figs> d(4/b(4))+4/4 = 82
16:56:06 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + s(d(4)/4) = 83
16:56:17 <Figs> ooh!
16:56:25 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) * 4/4 = 81 :)
16:56:30 <Figs> of course ;)
16:57:33 <Figs> 4*(d(4)+s(4)/.4) = 84
16:58:01 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + s(4) +s(4) = 85
16:58:22 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + s(4)/.4 = 86
17:01:17 <sirKIIdC> what do cholery are you doing?
17:02:56 <Figs> ??
17:03:08 <Figs> (d(d(4))+4*f(4))/4 = 88
17:03:10 <Figs> still need 87
17:03:27 <sirKIIdC> is it a kind of game?
17:03:30 <Figs> yeah
17:03:50 <Figs> find a combination of 4 fours that make each number up to 100
17:03:57 <Figs> http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/bits.txt
17:04:02 <Figs> some short ones
17:04:04 <Figs> for reference
17:11:45 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + 4 + s(4) = 87
17:12:54 <Figs> d( 4/b(4) ) + 4 + 4 = 89
17:13:12 <Figs> 4/.4 * 4/b(4) = 90
17:14:23 <Figs> 91-5
17:14:27 <Figs> O.o
17:14:29 <Figs> woops
17:17:31 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + 4/.4 = 91
17:17:44 <Figs> 44*s(4)+4 = 92
17:17:50 -!- lament_ has changed nick to lament.
17:19:04 <Figs> d(4/b(4)) + d(4) - 4 = 93
17:19:12 <oklopol> FUCK :OOOOOO
17:19:17 <oklopol> i'm missing teh fun
17:19:18 <Figs> what?
17:19:20 <Figs> lol
17:19:21 <Figs> :P
17:19:24 <Figs> I'm almost done
17:21:12 -!- sirKIIdC has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:21:14 <oklopol> yes, i find it interesting this has taken about 4 hours
17:21:26 <oklopol> well... might be a lot wrong, but gotta check
17:21:33 <oklopol> when 100 is done i mean
17:21:43 <oklopol> oh... 100 isn't really anything special
17:21:47 <Figs> yeah
17:21:49 <oklopol> so... it's not interesting
17:21:51 <Figs> 4/.4 * 4/.4
17:21:52 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm back
17:21:55 <Figs> wb
17:22:02 <oklopol> which num now?
17:22:08 <Figs> 94
17:22:21 <oklopol> can i have bits?
17:22:28 <Figs> http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/bits.txt
17:24:29 <oklopol> (f(4)+d(4))/b(4)+4
17:24:31 <oklopol> 94
17:24:38 <Figs> 95 = 44/b(4) - 4
17:25:21 <oklopol> 4*d(4)+d(4)*s(4) == 96
17:25:27 <Figs> 97 = 44/b(4) - s(4)
17:25:27 <Figs> 98 = d(4/.4) - s(d(4)/4)
17:25:27 <Figs> 99 = d(4/.4) - 4/4
17:25:27 <Figs> 100 = 4/.4 * 4/.4
17:25:31 <oklopol> :D
17:25:33 <Figs> :D
17:25:36 <oklopol> fast.
17:25:40 <Figs> hee
17:25:47 <Figs> I found those while I was looking for 94
17:25:58 <oklopol> haha, i found it in 5 secs :)
17:26:04 <oklopol> though... prolly lucky
17:26:13 <Figs> ok
17:26:16 <Figs> so we got all 100!
17:26:20 <oklopol> ya!
17:26:21 <Figs> yay
17:26:25 <Figs> that means
17:26:28 <Figs> we have a starting set
17:26:32 <Figs> from which we can optimize
17:26:34 <Figs> :D
17:26:34 <oklopol> hehe yeah :)
17:26:41 <Figs> ie, we can do 1 - 100 in 4
17:26:42 <Figs> but
17:26:46 <Figs> there are better ways to do them
17:26:48 <Figs> (shorter)
17:26:50 <Figs> for the other game
17:26:53 <oklopol> we oughtta collect them all, plus make another list with the shortest possibilities
17:27:02 <Figs> yeah
17:27:06 <Figs> well, we should make a table
17:27:10 <Figs> 1, 2, 3, 4 ways :P
17:27:22 <Figs> 400 values O_O
17:27:22 <oklopol> YOU should make the table, i should read :)
17:27:23 <Figs> eep
17:27:24 <Figs> :P
17:27:26 <Figs> lol
17:28:55 <oklopol> lol = d(4/b(4))+d(4)+4
17:29:23 <Figs> :P
17:29:38 <Figs> this looks like a job for...
17:29:40 <Figs> OpenOffice!
17:29:45 * Figs plays theme music
17:31:39 <lament> hm, what was hte Sprout page?
17:31:55 <Figs> sprout?
17:34:37 <Figs> how can I make one out of 3 fours?
18:13:11 <Figs> I fucking hate open office
18:13:15 <Figs> it's slow and buggy!!!
18:13:17 <Figs> damn it
18:13:47 <lament> so don't use it?
18:13:58 <Figs> I don't want to pay money for another slow buggy program ;P
18:14:09 <Figs> *ahem*
18:14:43 <Figs> how do I turn off auto-capitalize in Calc?
18:14:48 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:16:00 <Figs> found it
18:23:03 <Figs> wait
18:23:05 <Figs> we never got 94
18:23:41 <Figs> d(4/.4)-4-s(4) = 94
18:29:30 <Figs> I have extracted a substantial amount
18:29:32 <Figs> and I am tired now
18:29:33 <Figs> :P
18:29:37 <Figs> and bored!
18:42:37 <SimonRC> ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
18:43:09 <Figs> eep
18:43:11 <Figs> lisp!
18:46:58 <SimonRC> (\s->s++show s)"(\s->s++show s)"
18:46:59 <SimonRC> Haskell
18:47:05 <SimonRC> :->
18:47:22 <Figs> o.o
18:47:40 <SimonRC> the haskell one works on almost the same principle as the LISP one
18:48:48 <Figs> you know
18:49:01 <Figs> I still think Lisp and even further, Haskell are totally hard to read :P
18:49:13 <Figs> maybe I'm just not familiar with them
18:49:23 <Figs> but still... O.o
18:49:46 <Figs> although, I'd be hard pressed to find a language that is always easy to read ;)
18:53:33 <oklopol> [19:21:17] <oklopol> (f(4)+d(4))/b(4)+4
18:53:33 <oklopol> [19:21:18] <oklopol> 94
18:53:37 <oklopol> we did
18:53:46 <Figs> oh P
18:53:48 <lament> Figs: python!!!
18:53:48 <Figs> *:P
18:54:06 <Figs> lament, you didn't see what 7" bread made then ? :P
18:54:10 <Figs> he obfuscated python
18:54:25 <lament> oh, of course it's possible to obfuscate everything
18:54:38 <lament> obfuscation is implicit in turing-completeness
18:54:45 <Figs> no... :P
18:54:50 <Figs> you can't obfuscate wait
18:54:53 <lament> if you want something approaching natural language syntax, try inform 7
18:55:17 <oklopol> you could have a theoretical programming language that disallows obfuscation though
18:55:31 <lament> oklopol: define 'obfuscation'
18:55:42 <lament> once you define it, you can disallow it
18:55:55 <oklopol> one that errs if you try to do something that could be done more simply
18:55:56 <oklopol> and no
18:56:00 <oklopol> i can't define it :)
18:56:20 <Figs> lol
18:57:31 <oklopol> hmm... that haskell quine is very easy to read if you know what (\...) is
18:59:24 <Figs> :O
18:59:25 <Figs> http://edkrebs.com/herb/petoons11/desrt.jpg
18:59:28 <Figs> ROFL
19:32:42 <SimonRC> heh
19:37:42 <bsmntbombdood> hello
19:39:27 <bsmntbombdood> I have a small and pitiful interpreter for FOOS now
19:39:34 <Figs> :P
19:39:40 * SimonRC goes
19:39:45 <Figs> I am just so tired of my parser
19:46:06 <lament> FOOS?
19:46:34 <bsmntbombdood> A little language i've been thinking about
19:46:45 <bsmntbombdood> http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/FOOS.txt
19:46:56 <bsmntbombdood> everything described there is implemented
19:49:23 <bsmntbombdood> I still need to implement scoping
19:50:24 <Figs> I'm just so fucking burned out right now
19:51:29 <Figs> it's really frustrating when you're on revision 14 of what should be an easy project
19:54:19 <bsmntbombdood> @'foo [@'foo-executed %str print] @object %inherit add-method done create foo
19:54:26 <bsmntbombdood> does what's exceptected
19:55:48 <oklopol> "@ - pushes the builtin object onto the stack
19:55:48 <oklopol> "
19:55:55 <oklopol> i don't understand even the first line :<
19:57:10 <oklopol> what's the builtin object?
19:57:50 <bsmntbombdood> the object where the builtins are stored
19:57:55 <bsmntbombdood> the only object with a name
19:58:12 <oklopol> ah okay
20:01:00 <bsmntbombdood> @'foo ["Hello, world" print] @object %inherit add-method done create foo
20:01:04 <bsmntbombdood> a convoluted hello world
20:01:12 <oklopol> so... your code makes the stack go <empty> -> bi -> bi "foo" -> bi "foo" [code] -> ??
20:01:19 <oklopol> @object is what?
20:01:23 <Figs> what is the include for boost lambda? O.o
20:01:36 <oklopol> ah
20:01:41 <oklopol> oh, i think i got it
20:01:55 <bsmntbombdood> @ object is the base object, that everything inherits from
20:02:10 <oklopol> @<something> is always a push?
20:02:22 <Figs> you know what is weird?
20:02:23 <bsmntbombdood> @ pushes the builtins object
20:02:28 <oklopol> okay
20:02:29 <Figs> I know exactly how boost::lambda works
20:02:31 <bsmntbombdood> <something> sends it the something method
20:02:34 <Figs> and I could rewrite it if I needed to
20:02:36 <Figs> :P
20:03:42 <oklopol> hmm... you have an interpreter?
20:03:45 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood
20:03:55 <bsmntbombdood> yea
20:04:10 <oklopol> where?
20:04:15 <oklopol> can it be dl'd?
20:04:25 <oklopol> you may have pasted a link but i don't remember
20:04:39 <bsmntbombdood> i need to fix some stuff first
20:05:59 <oklopol> i just need the basics to work... since i still don't understand how it works :)
20:06:33 <Figs> wlw.
20:06:34 <Figs> *wow
20:06:41 <Figs> I just wrote a tokenizer in... 44 lines of code
20:06:52 <oklopol> hmm
20:07:00 <oklopol> for what?
20:07:05 <lament> def tokenize(s): return s.split(' ')
20:07:12 <lament> one-line tokenizer
20:07:12 <oklopol> i can write you a bf tokenizer in conciderably less
20:07:17 <oklopol> oh
20:07:21 <oklopol> tokenizer :)
20:07:47 <Figs> in C++
20:07:51 <oklopol> well, a nesting parser can be done in less than that
20:07:55 <oklopol> but
20:07:58 <oklopol> what lang?
20:08:05 <Figs> english.
20:08:12 <oklopol> oh
20:08:14 <oklopol> :|
20:08:16 <Figs> Hello There.
20:08:18 <Figs> ->
20:08:19 <Figs> Hello
20:08:21 <Figs> There.
20:08:22 <Figs> :D
20:08:24 <oklopol> oh :P
20:08:24 <Figs> yeah
20:08:26 <Figs> nothing magical
20:08:32 <oklopol> i don't see that requiring 44 lines :)
20:08:52 <Figs> in C++?
20:08:57 <Figs> from a file? :P
20:09:32 <Figs> I used lambda to output it
20:09:41 <Figs> since I was too lazy to write a new function
20:11:45 <Figs> rapid share sucks
20:13:30 <bsmntbombdood> hrm
20:13:44 <bsmntbombdood> python looks like it's having trouble with mutual imports
20:15:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to xor.
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20:27:56 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p654524162.txt
20:29:28 <Figs> afk
20:29:35 <Figs> got to take my sister to the park :(
20:29:54 <Figs> cya
20:30:01 <Figs> I should be back in an hour or so
20:31:28 <oklopol> party on the backseat
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22:10:21 <xor> I broke my interpreter
22:11:26 <Figs> :(
22:14:10 <oklopol> that's one beautiful nick
22:14:32 <Figs> xor? :P
22:14:36 <oklopol> though i'd just understood what bsmntbombdood means
22:14:45 <oklopol> yeah
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23:29:19 <Figs> hey
23:29:28 <Figs> does anyone know a good open source firewall for windows?
23:29:59 <GregorR> Ha ha ha ha ha
23:30:04 <Figs> :P
23:30:05 <GregorR> Ahhh, that's a good one.
23:30:11 <Figs> I take it not?
23:30:26 <GregorR> Well, certainly I wouldn't, I don't use Windows :P
23:30:38 <Figs> I wish I didn't have to use windows any more
23:30:40 <Figs> but I do :P
23:31:04 <Figs> if I was more knowledgable of sys. programming
23:31:06 <Figs> I'd do it myself
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23:37:16 <Figs> I hate norton
23:37:45 <SevenInchBread> hmmm...
23:37:48 <SevenInchBread> I just thought of something.
23:38:46 <SevenInchBread> if I'm computer is connected to the net through a WLAN adapter... would that effect my ability to properly get a webserver going?
23:39:01 <Figs> might
23:39:15 <SevenInchBread> ...the IP address everything seems to be getting from me is different from the one my adapter says.
23:39:35 <Figs> is there a way to quit norton?
23:39:55 <SevenInchBread> -nod- you should be able to...
23:40:21 <oklopol> i guess 1:37 is a good time to start perusing the course book if the exam is at 8?
23:40:32 <Figs> am I still here?
23:40:45 <SevenInchBread> ...yes
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23:41:01 <Figs> there we go
23:41:04 <Figs> finally killed it
23:41:07 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... when I logged into my router to foreward port 80 to my adapters IP I got " NAPT server IP address is not a valid host LAN address."
23:41:08 <Figs> god, that was hard
23:41:53 <Figs> brb
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