00:40:50 i fast-forwarded the whole conversation as pointless... then at some point found out dupdog does a modulo when outputting making it sensible... but decided not to read again :P 00:44:31 Argh. Wait a minute. The Data.Sequence module cannot be used anyhow. 00:45:02 It stores lengths as Ints, making it useless for massively nested duplications. 00:45:48 Darn. 00:46:25 * oerjan throws his beginning Dupdog implementation in the garbage bin. 00:46:50 ok, maybe not literally. 00:47:55 oerjan: that's pretty dumb :( 01:05:51 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:18:23 Hm, a BSD style license means you can bundle freely, doesn't it? 01:18:51 given the discussion previous today 01:18:59 *ly 01:19:08 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 01:20:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:28:16 I found a downloadable Data.FingerTree module in which you can select any Monoid as your size measure. 01:28:30 (Including the trivial ()) 01:54:52 FingerTree! 01:55:54 yes? 01:56:07 nothing 01:56:43 (it's the underlying representation for Data.Sequence) 02:10:20 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 02:12:16 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:06:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 03:35:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:17:42 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line."). 04:26:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:28:46 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 04:31:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("eek, pc going awol, back in 5"). 04:42:50 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 04:44:00 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 05:13:44 /// is interesting, but I'm not sure you could really implement arbitrary looping: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes 05:13:57 wait... I'm wrong 05:14:52 I think you could take a sequence like Code*, and then have "Code" contain instructions to rewrite "*" as "Code*" 05:15:12 it'd be interesting to see if this language is turing complete... 05:15:41 has anyone ever seen any TC proofs for string rewriting languages? 05:22:01 hm 05:23:14 if looping could be implemented, it might be possible to implement some kind of cyclic tag system from within a string rewriting language, proving computational usability... this could be interesting 05:26:59 well, goodnight everyone- I might play with /// tomorrow... 05:27:12 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:30:16 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:22:28 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 09:23:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:53:55 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("待っているね、永遠の彼女。素晴しい楽園が二人だけの為に見付かった。忍ばせない。彼女�). 10:05:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:24:16 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 10:26:35 gonna get off now, cya 10:28:54 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Think you're a sore loser? Go to ED. They'll make you look angelic."). 10:50:43 RodgerTheGreat, Thue has a brainfuck interpreter in it, so cyclic tag should be trivial... 10:50:49 ...and he's not here 10:51:07 might read the logs though /megone-> 11:48:53 -!- jix__ has joined. 12:12:10 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:12:31 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 12:27:01 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 12:46:04 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:46:37 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 14:24:21 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:45:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:18:44 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 16:26:17 -!- tgwizard has joined. 16:54:27 huhu 16:54:32 hyhuh 17:03:51 huh? huh? 17:35:54 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 17:45:04 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Leaving"). 18:15:36 hehe reading english grammar, "in oldish english the infinitive can be used as the subject of a sentence" and thinking why did they demote functions to second-class citizens :P 18:16:00 (the grammar was finnish, it didn't say 'oldish') 18:20:45 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 18:28:38 -!- graue has joined. 18:32:57 huhu 18:36:57 jah 19:04:20 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Leaving"). 19:50:50 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 19:51:03 so..... 19:51:37 anyone know the Windows equivalent of.... 19:51:38 wget -q --read-timeout=0.0 --waitretry=5 --tries=400 --background http://foo.bar/ 19:55:55 wget runs on windows 20:13:45 graue, is it on by default? I can use it from the command prompt 20:18:20 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 20:18:33 ...the domain name system annoys me. 20:19:29 all the systems suck 20:21:27 DNS is (other than ISPism) the only part of the Internet I can think of that is mandatorially business-ized. 20:22:41 trues, is that what annouy you? 20:22:50 because i dislike the system itself 20:23:56 it's kind of confusing... but I really don't like the commercial aspect. 20:25:09 *annoy 20:25:25 *annoys 20:25:33 all the rest of the Internet proves that "you get what you pay for" is false... except this weird internet real-estate system that gives commercial entities more sway than the average socket connection. 20:26:56 mm i don't really care for the practical aspect so... i'll talk about my new language lopoda 20:26:58 it's great 20:27:04 that is all 20:29:44 the entire basis for registrars is that it ensures you can trust the nameservers you're dealing with... but in all my experience anything on the internet involving money is usually more manipulative than free services. 20:38:27 GRAND ESOLANGERS 20:38:31 I PRESENT TO YOU... A PROPOSAL. 20:39:37 SevenInchBread: okay 20:39:44 shut up with your proposals and explain dupdog 20:39:57 Let's create an experimental computer network... so we can fiddle around with ways to make the existing Internet better, without the worrys of standardization and convention 20:40:12 dupdog is completely useless.... I can't even figure out how to do Hello, World! with it. 20:40:19 no, no 20:40:24 what i need explained is 20:40:45 you had at one point put up a buggy not-working implementation on the wiki page 20:40:51 AN ESOTERIC INTERNET. ... 20:41:04 in this implementation, when mfit output characters, it wrapped on 257 20:41:10 yeah, that one didn't work... not sure why... haven't bothered delving further. 20:41:14 is that a typo, or you did you actually mean it to wrap on 257 20:41:26 because if it does wrap on 257, i have written hello world for it 20:41:35 ...should be 256 20:41:37 and if it doesn't, it might be impossible to do so 20:41:46 ... 20:41:47 oh 20:41:52 well... -ahems- alright it does 20:41:55 haha 20:42:17 257 is the "termination character" :P 20:42:25 http://pastebin.ca/397959 20:43:05 if it wraps on 257 there is no 257 20:43:17 256 is the termination character 20:43:21 ....do the words have any signifigance? 20:43:52 er... the letters 20:44:00 C you mean? 20:44:04 SevenInchBread: no 20:44:14 well, they spell hello world 20:44:20 SevenInchBread didn't you make this language? :D 20:44:31 >.> what? 20:44:40 the problem with esoteric internet is that we'd have to use the existing infrastructure which only understands IP 20:44:52 so we could only build stuff on top of IP, which is lame 20:45:04 right right... but it would be easy to make a high-level emulation of a low-level internet. 20:45:07 unless we physically connect our computers ourselves 20:45:21 not really, since it could be easily converted to non-ip dependant 20:45:33 for proof-of-concept more than any practical advantage. 20:45:47 so something like Tor? 20:46:25 not necessarily... i was thinking more or less as a sandbox for making protocols and systems and testing how awesome they are. 20:46:53 the problem with a huge international network is that a status quo of accepted standards emerges - even if they're not necessarily the best way to do it. 20:48:13 something tells me that, this being #esoteric, you perhaps don't have the optimal efficiency in mind 20:48:17 :D 20:48:50 ...yeah, don't care how fast it is... unless the point of the experiment is to test faster methods of communication. 20:49:17 well, all we need for this is protocol specification 20:49:43 vpn? 20:49:54 A protocol without an implementation is jsut a.... protocol. 20:50:11 :) 20:50:32 well, a protocol specification + at least one person actually bothering to write an implementation. 20:51:44 communication requires multiple parties that understand the protoocl.... thus, to test out new protocols, you need a network of talking heads that speak the same language. 20:52:05 plus.... AN ESOTERIC INTERNET 20:52:12 ...this is too good to pass up. 20:52:32 \:/\:/:\ 20:52:55 we can incorporate it into esoOS... when it's first released 20 years from now. 20:53:01 .... :D 20:54:06 i have an idea! When you send a packet, you send it to a random address. If the computer at that address is not the recipient, it must pass the packet along to another random address - but only after adding some more stuff to the packet. 20:54:16 .....okay maybe that's not such a brilliant idea :D 20:54:51 ... :) 20:55:28 I like IP myself... not sure what you could do differently with it. 20:56:25 maybe "esoteric wide web" is more a descriptive term for what I had in mind. 20:56:35 we could just use gopher 20:56:45 it's already extensively implemented, and it's still completely esoteric. 20:56:55 lament: brilliant! 20:57:14 if you _really_ want to experiment with other low-level protocols, get into amateur radio. 20:57:17 they do that. 20:58:57 a protocol for defining protocols would be sweet... even though it would basically entail creating an entire programming language and sending it across lines... and it would be the biggest security hazard ever. 21:00:25 you know what's pretty cool? termcast 21:00:31 lets other people look at your terminal 21:00:53 hmmm 21:00:55 screen 21:02:04 one of the common issues I see with networking is that.... while it's easy to talk to the other end, it's hard to create a persistent conversation. 21:02:44 ...you mean like TCP? 21:03:30 it's all so bad one starts crying the first time they learn about it 21:03:55 I'm not sure what I mean exactly.... I'm kinda thinking specifically of HTTP and other stateless protocols... and dynamic IP addresses. But I don't think getting rid of a dynamic address is such a hot idea. 21:04:48 it can be done, certainly 21:05:14 but that takes away a lot of the awesomeness of the Internet. 21:05:43 ...mainly, anonymity. It's why the internet is a cloud and not a city. 21:07:33 not really. 21:07:39 your IP is static to a fairly large extent. 21:08:09 that is, your registrar has some subnet or whatever 21:08:15 err 21:08:18 i mean provider 21:08:28 and you get an IP from their, and they have IPs assigned to them 21:08:35 and there's a central authority that manages it all 21:08:45 ...straying back to programming languages for a second, I've got an idea for a language read concurrently by multiple interpreters with different meanings for different symbols... and a bitwise brainfuck with some basic ideas of quantum entanglement. 21:08:56 i could get to your ip by just randomly checking all the computers on your subnet 21:09:19 wouldn't take not really... just all possible bit combinations. 21:09:24 *take long 21:09:27 no 21:09:40 wait 21:09:46 i remember something like that 21:10:04 (brainfuck) 21:10:25 quantum entanglement with bitwise brainfuck basically makes an event-programming-type thingy. 21:10:47 changing one bit changes another. 21:11:01 haven't i implemented that? 21:11:03 yes, i have 21:11:13 i even put it in egobot 21:11:38 !qb . 21:11:40 Huh? 21:11:50 no idea what the syntax would be 21:12:25 ohh 21:12:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Quantum_brainfuck 21:12:52 ...so..... what's the idea behind the dupdog program? Found any properties that can be exploited? 21:13:17 yes, the fact that 257 is an odd number :) 21:13:43 the program is almost trivial, it's a sequence of NOPs and prints 21:13:46 there's no duplication 21:15:09 just a print every time the program size is the right size mod 257? and one char is cut off every cycle? 21:15:17 yes. 21:15:30 the only trick is that only mfit can print. 21:15:34 hmm, can you explain why 256 would've been bad? 21:15:35 hmm 21:15:47 so if the program is of even size, and mfit prints 21:16:00 then every time mfit runs, the program will still be of even size 21:16:11 since one character is removed each step, and new ones are never added 21:16:28 so if we wrap on an even number (256), mfit can never print a half of all characters 21:16:44 what's mfit do? or is it faster to read it? 21:17:02 faster to read it! 21:17:03 mfit uses different semantics. 21:17:18 link it if you have it open 21:17:29 i never remember the page :D 21:17:39 oh, found! 21:17:40 dupdog was a strange attempt at playing with the semtantic interpretation of syntax. 21:19:22 If I knew it has any sort of properties to it for creating abstractions, I'd add macro substitution into it... 21:19:32 but I don't think it does. 21:20:45 y65\ 21:21:36 dupdog isn't very conceptually awesome... so I think my next attempt in that area will involving concurrently running interpreters on the same characters. 21:22:22 * SevenInchBread adds laments Hello, World! to the page. 21:23:17 58 of them! 21:25:57 ....suuure 21:26:08 everybody makes one, SevenInchBread tells us what the interpreters can or can't do 21:26:14 and everyone willing makes one interpreter 21:26:22 oooooh 21:26:27 and each is assigned the same char simultaneously 21:26:33 making up the language 21:26:36 SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FOR THE EDUCATED BLIND ESOLANG COMMITEE. 21:26:40 thing 21:26:42 :D 21:26:43 * SevenInchBread forgot the name of it 21:29:10 i used to be pretty confident about my english... i seem to know nothing about articles though now that i've read the grammar... 21:29:32 lament, what's your name on the wiki? 21:29:40 mm...lament? 21:29:47 Nikita Ayzikovsky 21:30:02 oklopol, that sounds like a corny joke... but I haven't figured out the punch line. 21:30:25 mm what? 21:30:28 :O 21:31:15 i'm reading english grammar, there is no logic on the 'the' article when it comes to buildings, countries etc 21:31:43 and i thought i'd've known them all... just like that... but most come a suprise for me 21:31:49 ? 21:32:52 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Leaving"). 21:32:56 ? ? 21:33:42 what's the rule? 21:33:53 the rule? 21:33:57 yeah. 21:34:02 sad how brainfuck is so popular 21:34:09 6 pages of rules for when to use 'the' 21:34:29 * SevenInchBread is monolingual.... much to his dismay. 21:34:30 bsmntbombdood you've complained that before 21:34:44 and still i think it deserves it :) 21:37:36 the unfortunate side-effect of living in a entirely-English region is not having any urgent need to learn multiple language. 21:37:38 s 21:38:27 oklopol: the articles are very very tricky 21:38:34 basically the only way to learn them is through use 21:39:03 I don't understand P'' 21:40:12 yeah, i know, what discouraged me was i did so many errors... and i use this language more than my native one :\ 21:40:38 ....I know them, but I don't know the rules... using an article incorrectly simply doesn't "sound right". 21:41:47 that's what fluency is all about 21:43:34 anyone have access to jstor.org? 21:43:59 well, i knew most of them... maybe my skillzorz will automatically improve with time 21:44:04 or portal.acm.org? 21:44:06 bsmntbombdood what don't you understand? 21:44:11 seems simple 21:44:19 * SevenInchBread wants to learn like... Polish or something. 21:44:25 I just need like, an active soure of practice. 21:44:29 oklopol: r ≡ λR, r′ ≡ rn, L ≡ r′λ, R 21:44:35 :o 21:44:42 SevenInchBread: heh, my dad speaks polish 21:44:44 lot's of squares 21:45:47 r R, 21:47:29 if you mean you don't understand how to code in that, i can't help you 21:47:38 because i can't figure it out 21:47:54 i guess that's what you meant 22:00:40 hmmm... studying the morphology of a language sounds like a good way to make the language more intuitive... since it's based on the patterns recognized by fluent speakers. 22:00:53 SevenInchBread, i'm pretty sure you couldn't tell all of the cases of 'the' no matter how native you were 22:01:12 yeah I doubt it too. :P 22:01:13 if the book is correct, british bridges aren't 'the' while american bridges are 22:01:34 so... you'd have some memory :D 22:01:40 hmmm... that's odd. :) 22:01:58 like... a Golden Gate Bridge? 22:02:13 the of course 22:02:21 oh 22:02:24 without article? 22:02:32 that'd be Golden Gate Bridge 22:02:41 i was fishing under Golden Gate Bridge 22:02:47 in British-english 22:02:49 yes 22:02:52 read above 22:03:25 aaaah. 22:03:30 but golden gate is american 22:03:33 so it's 'the' 22:03:33 hmm, "london bridge" but "the golden gate bridge"? 22:03:51 I thought you meant British English used a instead of the. :P 22:04:00 yeah, that would be strange. 22:04:49 graue, you can correct me if the book is wrong 22:05:00 but yes, that's what is says 22:05:51 except for british rivers that carry the name of the river they're built across... they're 'the' 22:05:53 :) 22:06:01 *british bridges 22:06:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:07:20 hmmm... being native to United Statesian English... hearing "Let's go fishing for large octupii below FooBar Bridge" does sound paticularly Britishy to me, if not some kind of non-American accent. :P 22:07:46 er.. dialect. 22:07:50 or whatever the term is 22:09:13 hmmmm.... yeah, English articles are definetely weird. 22:09:26 octupii? 22:09:40 octopi? 22:10:23 yeah. 22:11:10 sorry, i get some serious hard-on when correcting americans' english 22:11:11 :) 22:11:35 ...I'm terrible with grammar 22:12:23 half-decent with spelling. 22:12:55 i'm terrible with decency. 22:13:01 and half-grammatical with spelling. 22:14:19 "london bridge" and "the golden gate bridge" sound right to me 22:14:43 English is.... a deformed fusion of Germanic and Romanic rules. 22:14:55 all natural languages suck 22:15:00 * SevenInchBread likes them. 22:15:29 infidel 22:15:43 I'd kill myself if natural languages took on the consistent design of artifical ones. 22:15:51 i don't think english has much romance grammar 22:16:14 well, vocabulary anyway 22:16:42 Most of the romance influence is in some word etymologies 22:17:59 well, a million per cent of english vocabulary is directly from french 22:18:08 i don't see why dupdog with even wrapping cannot work, you can use duplication to turn odd into even and both Mfit and Shanty can do that. 22:18:14 and i believe that's romance 22:21:53 French is Germanic. Scanning over German I see tons of German words that resemble English words... more so than French words. 22:22:40 French influence is a recent addition to English. 22:22:45 ...historially. 22:22:51 -historically 22:22:52 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 22:23:11 i thought it was romance... what is romance? :P 22:23:18 so English has Germanic grammar with tons of Romance vocabulary, French has Romance grammar with tons of Germanic vocabulary 22:24:10 how's going, guys? 22:24:57 Romance is Spanish, italian, Romania, Portugese, and.... 22:25:22 oooh wait 22:25:28 French is Romanic. 22:27:07 it decended from Latin.... but I can see much more Germanic influences in French than I can the other Romance languages. 22:28:19 oh... Catalan is also a Romance language... 22:28:41 France was rather thoroughly invaded by the Germanic Franks... 22:29:26 Germany and France used to be one kingdom for a while 22:29:53 * SevenInchBread nod. 22:30:30 an Reto-Romansch, Sardinian, probably Corsican 22:30:32 *and 22:30:52 and Occitan 22:31:18 so yeah... Romance grammar with tons of Germanic vocabulary. 22:31:22 (probably mispled some) 22:33:19 what spurred a discussion regarding the origin of human languages? 22:33:31 SevenInchBread please don't confuse me like that 22:33:44 ....well... we are the esoteric language channel. ;) 22:33:45 my systems get all mized upz 22:33:47 :P 22:34:08 >.> 22:34:14 * SevenInchBread confused oklopol. 22:34:19 er... confuses 22:34:29 lessee it started with oklopol complaining how he didn't know all the rules for using "the" 22:34:42 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 22:35:47 oh, and if we ever try doing the "EsoInternet" thing, the equivalent of IPs or routing codes or whatever should be a TC scripting language 22:36:55 .....???? 22:37:50 like, rather than knowing a remote computer's IP, you obtain a program that can traverse the network and find that specific computer 22:38:12 and you need a different tiny program, as simple or complex as the coder makes it, to find each machine 22:38:53 and doing tunneling or something TOR-like would just imply a different way of designing these traversal programs 22:39:17 heyyy that sounds fun :D 22:39:23 yeah 22:39:25 :D 22:39:46 heeh 22:40:16 and it could be non-trivial to determine wether two programs pointed to the same machine if the scripts can do queries of some kind from each machine they meet along the way. :D 22:40:43 * SevenInchBread has always wanted to create his own natural language. 22:40:56 me too 22:40:57 sounds pretty cool... 22:41:00 been making one just now 22:41:12 actually, it's a group of languages 22:41:19 I'd probably be more interested in making a written language than a spoken one 22:41:39 yes 22:41:48 i never even considered soken 22:41:50 *spoken 22:41:56 Kind of both... for me. I like unusual pronounciation rules and sounds. 22:42:03 but, I'd start on paper first. 22:42:11 since when designing, it never occured to me langs can be spoken :) 22:42:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:43:14 haha 22:43:27 I don't like the organizedness of artifical languages though... I'd try to make it purposefully natural by incomporating bits and pieces of other languages. 22:43:30 i was explaining my system to a friend today... he assumed i meant a spoken language 22:43:47 and i was like what the fuck are you saying when he said something about pronunciation 22:44:33 I'd like to design a language that focussed on brevity and syntactic conciseness. Most human languages contain a great deal of redundant information. 22:44:52 like, create an entire alternate history with multiple languages... tracking historical events to create natural-like influences and evolution. 22:45:11 like four or five symbols representing a complex idea 22:45:27 the system has some interesting ideas, there are no nouns in the core language for one, you have noun packs, which you can master and they can then be used in the conversation if both speakers know them 22:45:36 * SevenInchBread likes the ambiguities... lots of words, with lots of ways to combine them 22:45:58 and very simple glyphs that can be combined and superimposed, with intuitive modifications of expressed meaning 22:46:22 yep... sounds like a lot of artifical languages... very modular and consistent. 22:46:33 oklopol: like, a human language with libraries? 22:47:27 well, that was just one thing... i'm not gonna share the whole spesification on an irc chan, and it's not done yet 22:47:44 another interesting idea would be a written language with self-repairing syntax. Design it so that you can be missing half of the characters and reconstruct the whole meaning, without being explicitly redundant 22:47:52 the core language, common, is pretty much just a way to express logic 22:48:03 ah 22:48:22 so, you have the "control structure", and you're still working on the "command set" 22:48:43 yeah, that is already done implicitly in normal langs, the redundancy you mentioned 22:48:46 but not well 22:48:50 because it's so random 22:49:02 hmm... to a certain extent you can do that informally with English and other natural languages. 22:49:16 sometimes you can understand a sentece with only the first few words of it, sometimes a sentence has multiple semantics 22:49:33 yeah 22:49:37 i just have guidelines i'm going to follow 22:49:39 ....I like that. 22:49:56 there aren't any sequences of characters in the language 22:50:15 you can use whatever you want, probably words of your own previous native tongue 22:50:32 because the presentation of nouns is not important 22:50:37 Humor, is highly linguistical. Good prose is often concisely ambiguous 22:50:41 if you designed an entire language in a consistent manner, you could achieve a very nice human/machine readable manner for expressing ideas. Most programming languages are unsuitable because programming languages are designed for expressing algorithms 22:50:56 they are just referenced by indeices in the noun pack 22:51:04 lol 22:51:38 ...humor would be nigh impossible if every word and morphological structure had one clear meaning. 22:51:41 you convert them to whatever char sequences you want 22:52:05 SevenInchBread, i've never enjoyed wordplays that much 22:52:15 * SevenInchBread loves it. 22:54:09 RodgerTheGreat, most comp langs are for algorithms, native langs are more like regexes, they define a structure, not a sequence or a clear action 22:54:14 that was bad said 22:54:22 but still understood 22:54:26 good 22:54:30 :D 22:54:32 :) 22:54:52 ...well... 22:55:26 hmm 22:55:38 i have so much to say i think i won't say anything anymore 22:56:02 i hate it when i think about something and find a conversation about it later 22:56:11 and all the info bangs into my head 22:56:21 anyway 22:56:24 this one language 22:56:26 just about this 22:56:43 not always.... I'd relate natural languages more to... communication protocols. regexes express a definite pattern, algorithms define a definite sequence of actions... communication protocols send desired characteristics to a receiver, and leave the task of interpretation up to it. 22:57:18 did anyone read my comments last night about /// ? 22:57:38 a language that says everything you want it to say and is interpreted exactly as it was intended is... boring. 22:57:46 * SevenInchBread shakes his head. 22:58:28 SevenInchBread sending stuff has nothing to do with natural language 22:58:31 I was wondering if this could be TC: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes 22:58:39 you can just as well send code to a remote server 22:58:45 oklopol, communication has everything to do with natural language. 22:58:51 has anyone seen any TC proofs for string rewriting languages? 22:59:00 RodgerTheGreat thue has bf 22:59:19 SevenInchBread no. 22:59:39 how is it not? 22:59:59 you could as well say pressing buttons is somehow an intrinsic part of programming languages 23:00:02 looping is a bit of a trick, but I think I can see a way to pull it off 23:00:02 (intrinsic?) 23:00:43 and you can say bugs are the same as misinterpreting natural language 23:00:46 what other purpose does a spoken word have than to be heard and understood.... what other purpose does a book have than to be read? 23:00:49 but it's not a critical part 23:01:30 i know exactly what the critical part (difference between natural and comp langs) so... my mind is made 23:01:52 what other purpose does code have than to be tokenized and run? 23:01:55 I'm trying to think of a nontrivial task that cannot be bruteforced and requires no input, which would demonstrate the plausibility of /// being TC. Think a cyclic tag system would be possible? 23:03:59 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("gah sleep"). 23:04:33 hmm 23:04:35 you could try the Ackermann function 23:04:43 it seems you can't duplicate anything 23:04:52