< 1171670426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messed up at the start < 1171670621 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that paper printed terribly < 1171670838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, there is no shorter than six X'x < 1171670842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X's < 1171670897 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1171670916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, wait... < 1171670930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have missed some cases < 1171670981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to understand their derivation < 1171670995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the paper? < 1171671055 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1171671139 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for P it makes sense but I don't understand the K part < 1171671222 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1171671276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now i think i have all 5 X cases, still no I < 1171671629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sorta understand it now < 1171671799 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their method is interesting < 1171672184 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently some guy named "Rosser" came up with X = \x.xKSK < 1171672206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the Rosser of the Church-Rosser theorem < 1171672343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Barkley_Rosser < 1171673133 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171675807 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's an X such that XX = S and X(XX) = K < 1171676054 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries the method in the paper
< 1171676241 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1171676288 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a P,Q,R such that PPQRQR == S < 1171676478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=K(K(K(K(KS)))) < 1171676487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1171676532 0 :Arrogant!i=Paragon@16.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171676538 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a P,Q,R such that PPQRQR == S and SPQR = K < 1171676542 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1171676567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Senatus PopulusQue Romanum < 1171676601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, SPQR=PR(QR) < 1171676630 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1171676654 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=R=K < 1171676695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then KKQKQK=S < 1171676712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KKQKQK=KKQK=KK, alas < 1171676752 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1171676766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about P=I, R=KK < 1171676790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIQ(KK)Q(KK)=S < 1171676798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=Q(KK)Q(KK) < 1171676824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, P=I, R=KK, Q=K(K(KS)) < 1171676930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should X look like then? < 1171677015 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is (K(K(KS)))(KK)(K(K(KS)))(KK)? < 1171677069 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1171677075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=K(KS)(K(K(KS)))(KK)=KS(KK)=S < 1171677137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the point of that Q < 1171677142 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzers it works < 1171677172 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so X = \f.fPQR < 1171677212 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so X = \f.f(K(K(KS)))(KK) < 1171677262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. then XX=XPQR=PPQRQR=S and X(XX)=XS=SPQR=K < 1171677281 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1171677282 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1171677298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought your equations looked arbitrary. < 1171677315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least complicated. < 1171677407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mission accomplished < 1171677443 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1171677539 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = \f.fI(K(K(KS)))(KK) < 1171677599 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or X = \f.f I (\xyz.S) (\x.K) < 1171677662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1171677708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot have XX=V and XV!=V, I think. < 1171677729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so XX and X(XX) cannot be chosen arbitrarily. < 1171677788 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1171677805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vx=V < 1171677817 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1171677842 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1171677850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what you are saying < 1171677861 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw("JOIN #math\r\nPRIVMSG #math :zomg bot") < 1171677867 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: we are brillant < 1171677873 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sic) < 1171677875 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are? < 1171677881 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw("PART #math") < 1171677885 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: me and oerjan < 1171677902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you can find X such that XX=K and X(XX)=S or such that XX=S and X(XX)=K then you might think you could choose XX and X(XX) to be whatever you want. < 1171677915 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION logreads
< 1171677941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you can get XX=V and XX!=V, because then X would have to simultaneously use its argument and not < 1171677967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X(XX)!=V < 1171677972 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't be of the form \f.fE < 1171677980 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V? < 1171677987 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda's v operator? < 1171677990 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vx=V < 1171677991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1171677998 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's it, you really don't want XX=V. < 1171678037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to try and solve XX=A, X(XX)=B for A, B arbitrary < 1171678059 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this method needs the number of arguments that B takes < 1171678074 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next things up would be (XX)X = XX and X(XX) = XV. If X pays any attention to its first argument, XV = V, and if it doesn't, X = KV meaning XV = V. < 1171678092 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A, rather < 1171678110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's essentially what i think too < 1171678133 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you solve \f.f PQR...upto A's # of args < 1171678153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not entirely. < 1171678167 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, maybe I'm wrong for the "if it pays any attention to its first argument" case. < 1171678168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have XV=KV, say < 1171678199 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, KV is... well, it's V. < 1171678199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's more subtle than that. < 1171678211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1171678225 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X could simply pass its first argument on as arguments to other things. < 1171678227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have XV=\y.yV < 1171678237 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1171678251 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, XVX = XV, which... hmm. < 1171678267 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be \f.(E)f < 1171678275 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of \f.fE < 1171678391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V essentially takes an infinite number of arguments, yes. It doesn't have what is called a "head normal form" < 1171678433 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f.E_a_1 ... E_a_n f E_b_1 ... E_b_n < 1171678439 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's headless! < 1171678450 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What is a head normal form, exactly? < 1171678454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in a sense every combinator which doesn't is semantically equivalent. < 1171678490 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one could say V is equivalent to (\x.xx)(\x.xx)... < 1171678512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's \v1v2...vn.v E1E2...Em < 1171678531 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I... see. < 1171678559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first expression inside the lambda must be a variable. < 1171678734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you reduce the Ei expressions recursively to their head normal forms (or to V if they don't have any) then you get a tree structure which may sometimes be infinite. < 1171678967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bõhm trees. < 1171679084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is one article which mentions it: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~huet/PUBLIC/Bohm.pdf < 1171679127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Restart" < 1171679271 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1171679318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone said anything? < 1171679324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1171679343 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs are nice. < 1171679349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, then I won't have to go to that snail ircbrowse < 1171679362 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we now have 3 decent single combinator bases < 1171679363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying avoid it < 1171679371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1171679425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i could have gone to tunes, they are much quicker but poorer formatting. < 1171679526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why meme/ircbrowse has become so slow. Too much growth? < 1171679707 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is S(KS)K reducable? < 1171679729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe eta, lessee < 1171679742 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reduceable? < 1171679757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(KS)Kx = S(Kx) < 1171679767 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1171679771 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1171679778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, looks pretty minimal < 1171679799 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(Kx)yz = Kxz(yz) = x(yz)? < 1171679810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I got < 1171679825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1171679853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could reduce it with either B or C, I never remember which is which < 1171679872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is composition, isn't it? < 1171679883 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So S(KS)K = CSK? < 1171679896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, S(KS)K = C, even... right? < 1171679908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, C < 1171679917 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no b < 1171679925 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B a b c) = (a (b c)) < 1171679943 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's C, then? < 1171679956 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C a b c) = (a c b) < 1171679963 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia < 1171679970 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1171679979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's... uh, what was it? < 1171679982 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip! < 1171679992 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1171680013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B = (.), C = flip < 1171680023 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And W = join. < 1171680044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join? < 1171680055 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%2CC%2CK%2CW_System < 1171680077 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a -> b) -> a -> b, isn't it? < 1171680234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, but only in the Reader monad < 1171680319 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an equivalent whose principal type is that? < 1171680370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1171680399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1171680404 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like join, but not monadic, I mean. < 1171680411 0 :oklopol!i=okokokok@194.251.102.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1171680417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's ask hoogle < 1171680481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1171680572 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly feel an urge to combine this with set theory. < 1171680596 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzz < 1171680597 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can functions in lambda calculus be expressed as sets? < 1171680611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Domain theory < 1171680660 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Domain theory? < 1171680675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_theory < 1171680681 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW, Unlambda uses c for call-with-current-continuation, which produces "escape continuations".) < 1171680684 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzz < 1171680698 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ? < 1171680775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of unlambda's weird impure functions < 1171680806 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can interpret SKI in hardware < 1171680809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has nothing to do with BCKW. < 1171680841 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: if you can interpret it in software, and processors interpret software... < 1171680859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: you know what I mean < 1171680883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some kind of automatic memory allocation and garbage collection. < 1171680896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: do I? < 1171680934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of functional virtual machines, i am sure some of them could be hardware implemented. < 1171681393 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1171681476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a design from '86: http://content.ohsu.edu/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/etd&CISOPTR=127 < 1171681518 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171681749 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooong < 1171683654 0 :Sgeo!n=sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171686149 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longcat is < 1171686196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinporcupine < 1171686487 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1171687551 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1171689155 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SII(S(KK)(SII)) < 1171689280 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : = V < 1171689348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1171689579 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatory calculus is fun < 1171689598 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would want to give names to arguments? < 1171689723 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171689815 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh fun < 1171689818 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(K(SI))(S(KK)I) < 1171689840 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(K(SI))K even < 1171691627 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a wonder. < 1171691662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a miracle! < 1171691683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, I think I got my tongue stuck in my cheek. < 1171691701 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to have a language that uses S,K,I, but doesn't have any explicit order of application symbols? < 1171691716 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*turing complete language < 1171691790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that combinators aren't commutative... < 1171691860 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's a no < 1171692063 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/S,K,I/any combinators/ < 1171692131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of structure is necessary. < 1171692152 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the X combinators it's possible to define S and K if xyz is x(y(z)) < 1171692190 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iota too < 1171692231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can define S and K then you still need to keep the order of those. < 1171692240 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1171692262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can dispense with some of the order. < 1171692273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other calculi < 1171692309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pi-calculus for example, independent processes whose order doesn't matter. < 1171692323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those aren't combinator based that I know of. < 1171692338 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of pi-calculus < 1171692368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of a lambda calculus for concurrent programming. < 1171692460 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171692529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are calculi inspired by chemical processes. Instead of ordering, there is a distinction between active and inert data. < 1171692603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you had no structure what so ever, and say something called S,K and I: < 1171692620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the only thing mattering would be the number of each. < 1171692647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much to base computation on. < 1171692660 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1171693089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1171694665 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171695168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1171699199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1171699200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1171699733 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171700283 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VVVVVVV < 1171700384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does unlambda have V? < 1171700504 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1171700537 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's stupid? < 1171700546 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not stupid < 1171700554 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1171700554 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a convenient shortcut, like i < 1171700599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is bottom, no? < 1171700613 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1171700618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes, it is < 1171700656 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom? < 1171700677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ < 1171700767 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is the bottom of an infinite loop :) < 1171700912 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any applications of V < 1171701104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a primitive exception mechanism < 1171701125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, division by zero would return v < 1171701303 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1171702296 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@tb-reh-1f0cf.adsl.wanadoo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1171703897 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-120.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1171714805 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-9b3ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1171714826 0 :voodooattack!n=voodooat@217.54.5.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1171718771 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171718801 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1171719748 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171720292 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171720313 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1171720897 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1171725042 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1171725676 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171725711 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171727515 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot time soon" < 1171728590 0 :helios24!i=helios@item.n1.helzilla.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1171729390 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1171729411 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171729739 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-120.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1171729884 0 :helios_!i=helios@item.n1.helzilla.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1171729928 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171731475 0 :crathman_!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171731489 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171731490 0 :crathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :crathman < 1171731711 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171731714 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171732458 0 :helios_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1171732654 0 :crathman_!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1171733250 0 :crathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]" < 1171733401 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171733594 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171734076 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1171734094 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171735625 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@209.11.151.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1171735789 0 :Sgeo!n=sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171737008 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-240.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1171737319 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171738151 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171738189 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171739291 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1171739985 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1171740057 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currying is the tautology: ((A & B) -> C) -> (A -> (B -> C)) < 1171740058 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1171740204 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IIRC, S is (p -> q -> r) -> ((p -> q) -> (p -> r) < 1171740263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's right < 1171740289 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also K is p -> q -> q and I is p -> p < 1171740307 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that S-K-I corresponds to that logic I can't remember the name of < 1171740355 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Y = SII, so < 1171741073 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1171741087 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171741189 0 :voodooattack!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1171744671 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((A & B) -> C) -> (A -> (B -> C)) ? < 1171744674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that mean? < 1171744684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y isn't SII < 1171744698 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SII)x = xx < 1171744757 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y = SII \f.\x.x(fx) < 1171744810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1171744875 0 :UpTheDownstair!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1171744889 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171745005 0 :UpTheDownstair!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1171745040 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y=SII(S(K(SI))I) < 1171745057 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by abstraction elimination < 1171745829 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"night silly sheep" < 1171745850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that doesn't seem right < 1171745888 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (S(K(SI))I) is SI < 1171745900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would mean Y=SII(SI) < 1171745909 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know. < 1171746006 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SII(SI)x == (SI)(SI)x == Ix(SIx) == x(SIx) < 1171746008 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1171749822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid haskell and its typeness < 1171752683 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1171752708 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-49.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1171752878 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.ihope = IRCbot("80.32.164.76", "bot", "nope", "ihope", "Now 100% Real", 9999, "#lobby", True, ["#lobby"], "#", True); self.ihope.listen() < 1171753422 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#exec self.ihope = 3 < 1171753443 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.ihope = 3 < 1171753463 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sure didn't kill it, did it? < 1171753466 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.ihope.raw("QUIT") < 1171753715 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1171753821 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1171754789 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, the calculi of lambda conversion got here < 1171755011 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1171755749 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1171756439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuh < 1171756460 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book defines Snfx as f(nfx) < 1171756462 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu