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03:49:46 <bsmntbombdood> in a lazy evaluation system, when do things get evaluated
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11:34:51 <SimonRC> My univeresity seems to have comissioned the building of two doors that lead into midair.
11:35:10 <SimonRC> The look much more like doors than like windows.
11:35:33 <SimonRC> But they are on the first and second floors, not the ground floor
11:36:14 <SimonRC> Where they are placed makes it impossible to attach a fire escape to them that would reach the ground.
11:36:42 <SimonRC> as they are on a walkway that goes over a road.
11:37:50 <SimonRC> and they aren't giong to connect to something else, as there is nothing to connect to except an office that is only 10sec walk away anyway.
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14:55:28 <SimonRC> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/mario-remix.php
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16:24:44 <SimonRC> jix: ?? http://www.teuton.org/~stranger/code/emoticon/emoticon.html
16:25:13 <jix> :) :) because i have a girlfriend now
16:25:31 <jix> :| because i won't see her the next 2 days
16:26:45 <SimonRC> Bah, I don't seem to want a girlfreind much
16:26:57 <SimonRC> you're supposed to be a geek
16:27:39 <jix> well i fell in love so...
16:28:00 <jix> and i prefer spending time with her over programming etc....
16:33:12 <SimonRC> geeks are supposed to have paraphilias not fall in love.
16:37:52 <GregorR> I repel women in the most literal sense imaginable.
16:40:27 <SimonRC> Maybe I'm just envious of jix.
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17:26:40 <jix> hmm start.sh wird also ignoriert
17:26:50 <jix> wrong channel
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19:20:17 <SimonRC> Mmmm, explosion: http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=21881
19:39:26 <SimonRC> It's called "viral advertising".
19:40:23 <SimonRC> Actually, I think all online ads should be released to be redistributed freely as long as they are unmodified.
19:40:56 <SimonRC> I mean, every time the ad is watched the company benefits, and they don't charge for it, so it is quite tough to object.
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22:37:43 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: What kind of lazy evaluation is it you want to know about?
22:40:18 <oerjan> Complete lazyness means evaluating an expression the moment something needs to be known about its actual value.
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22:41:07 <bsmntbombdood> how do we know when something needs its exact value?
22:41:22 <oerjan> However, if the language is pure you can also evaluate an expression earlier as long as it terminates - Haskell compilers do this for efficiency, using what is called strictness analysis.
22:42:01 <oerjan> *terminates or is guaranteed to be used
22:42:49 <bsmntbombdood> How do we know when to create a delay, and when to force it?
22:44:27 <oerjan> Well, basically you can make every expression a delay
22:44:49 <oerjan> (Avoiding it is just an efficiency matter)
22:44:57 <ihope> I hereby nominate myself for the position of Esoteric Operating System Project Leader, accept the nomination, vote for myself, close the vote, and claim the position.
22:45:54 <ihope> I then resign and hold an election for the next leader.
22:46:34 <oerjan> You don't need to delay variables - assume their contents are already delayed as needed
22:47:26 <oerjan> so foo just gets bar, which may contain a promise
22:48:54 <oerjan> or put another way, x is a binding not an expression
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22:51:25 <oerjan> for ((lambda (x) (foo x)) bar) i would assume (delay ((lambda (x) (delay (foo x))) bar)
22:52:17 <oerjan> that seems to be the same as delaying everything, then removing delay around variables
22:52:26 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: the one specified in my hostname of course!
22:54:12 <oerjan> of course special forms may need special handling
22:55:18 <SimonRC> I would look up graph-reduction
22:57:01 <SimonRC> "To tag or not to tag: that is the question:
22:57:01 <SimonRC> Whether 'tis faster in the cache to suffer
22:57:01 <SimonRC> The delays of tagless nodes,
22:57:03 <SimonRC> And make a branch that hits the cache.
22:57:09 <SimonRC> To jump: perchance to stall; Ay, there's the run."
22:57:45 <oerjan> i remember in GHC's STG machine, forcing is only done in case statements.
22:58:04 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: Read some papers on implementing lazy functional languages.
22:58:31 <SimonRC> oerjan: or equivalents, like ifs, guards, or any pattern-matching
22:58:36 <oerjan> The paper on STG for example
22:58:50 <SimonRC> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=99385&coll=portal&dl=ACM
22:58:55 <oerjan> yes, but those are all made into case statements in the STG language
22:59:36 <oerjan> (spineless tagless G-machine)
23:00:02 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: specifically, see google Scholar
23:00:09 <SimonRC> there are some freely-available versions
23:00:20 <oerjan> it's probably the most efficient lazy language machine around
23:00:56 <oerjan> or maybe i just bought its hype :)
23:01:31 <SimonRC> the paper I quoted above is about how the cache-misses tend to negate the benefits of no tag checking
23:01:40 <oerjan> seeing as how it is the only lazy language machine i know thoroughly
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23:05:06 <oerjan> ACM portal is useless to me
23:05:36 <oerjan> there isn't even a free abstract - but I remember reading some free article on it
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