00:02:20 7238. . . 00:03:54 I'm going to set it down for now. 00:11:53 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 00:40:54 -!- iissmart has joined. 00:40:57 -!- iissmart has left (?). 00:41:17 Anyone *else* wish to comment? 00:43:18 isn't there such a converter allready? 00:43:39 Yeah; I compared mine to it a while ago. 00:43:50 is it shorter than your current one? 00:44:12 Yes, but not by much. . . 00:44:18 And I'm not done optimising at all. 00:45:12 I can probably pull out a few hundred more characters. . . 00:45:56 Lots more if I find a small, simple divide by 10 code segment which can be changed to output mode, too (that's where most of the logic code's size comes from). 00:46:44 your does basic optimisations? 00:46:49 (wib.b does) 00:47:10 but only for + and - not for rows of > and < 00:47:24 Mine does it for + - > and < 00:47:45 uhm what interpreter does yours require? 00:47:52 And mine, unlike wib.b, outputs C code for EOF=0. 00:48:05 Any where EOF=0 and cells wrap (at 8 bits). 00:48:10 i get funny chars when i run your code 00:48:31 Try the latest one; found a small handful of bugs 00:48:56 i get this: Cゥョ」ャu、・ <ウt、ゥッ.ィ> 00:49:22 odd 00:49:34 You *sure* you're running on an 8 bit, cell-wrapping, EOF=0 Brainfuck implementation? 00:49:41 pretty 00:49:57 and your machine operates with an ASCII character set? 00:50:18 RodgerTheGreat: Oh, right; that's the most obvious assumption to ask about. XD 00:50:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 00:50:34 awib worked (when i set eof mode to -1) 00:50:49 awib doesn't use wrapping cells. 00:50:53 Mine depends upon it. 00:50:54 you never know in #Esoteric- he could be using EBCDIC for all I know... 00:51:07 (try EgoBF) 00:51:13 pikhq: wrapping works 00:51:32 pikhq: does yours move into negative mem offests? 00:51:33 (or ask me to upload the corresponding C code) 00:51:38 jix: No. 00:51:51 if you're using a mac, I can offer an interpreter that's compatible with pikhq's code. 00:51:58 i'll try with egobf 00:52:00 RodgerTheGreat: i am 00:52:07 oh, one sec 00:52:18 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/code/BFPlatform.zip 00:52:23 I recommend trying basm with basm. :p 00:52:44 RodgerTheGreat: yuck! realbasic... 00:52:53 yeah, I know- I made it a while ago. 00:53:03 i started programming with realbasic... but now i hate it 00:53:27 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.c Basm, as compiled by basm. 00:53:29 I might get around to coding a GUI frontend for my Java based interpreter sometime soon... hm. 00:54:13 i use BF Debugger 00:54:53 I was only aware of the windows-based version of that. 00:54:58 it's a java app 00:55:10 then I must be thinking of something else. 00:55:18 but it really screws up basm 00:55:39 did you at least *try* it with BFP? 00:55:47 RodgerTheGreat: yeah 00:55:51 it does work there 00:56:01 the same code fails in bf debugger 00:56:04 You *sure* that that's coded right? 00:56:12 (BF debugger, that is) 00:56:18 pikhq: ask calamari 00:56:22 heh 00:56:40 i'll try it with my own bf2c converter that does a lot of optimization 00:57:20 this one http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl/bf2a-0.2p0.rb 00:59:40 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:00:10 hmm my compiler expects eof == -1 01:00:20 (because it just calls getchar()) 01:00:32 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:00:44 hey, Razor-X - what's the status of those neural-net experiments you were doing earlier? 01:00:56 did you manage to build a DSP? :) 01:01:15 Try my own compiled version. 01:01:34 i really love those: LUT_VALS = [ ....a lot of numbers ...] #they are correct.. don't ask me why 01:02:10 i don't remember how i got them but they do work ..... ;] 01:03:46 well now i don't understand the program at all... but it is one of the most optimizing brainfuck compilers that exist 01:04:14 Heh. . . 01:04:22 -!- calamari has joined. 01:04:37 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:05:29 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:05:44 it somehow translates brainfuck to an intermediate language i called A and translates that into c 01:05:58 Magic. 01:06:08 Too much of it for my tastes. 01:06:23 RodgerTheGreat: I have a basic transfer function neuron model coded. 01:06:34 sweet 01:06:40 But I need some books to implement more complicated things like sigmoids. 01:07:56 it works in 3 stages.... stage 1 does obvious optimizations on the brainfuck code... in stage 2 it tries to detect high level things in the bf code and translates it in to the according a code... and the yet unwritten stage 3 should do optimizations on the a code 01:08:29 hell! i even implemented an efficient infinite loop ^^ 01:08:40 that doesn't waste cpu cycles 01:09:11 Written in ASM? 01:09:15 that's going to be a real pain the neck when I'm writing my befunge interpreter :< 01:09:16 no in c 01:09:19 one thing that I'm not sure has been addressed with bf optimizations are useless memory cells 01:09:39 * pikhq is currently proud of basm.b. . . 01:10:15 jix: What's optimizing about that? PSSH. 01:10:42 when bf is computing, there are values everyhwere, but only some are actually useful in the computation.. others are for doing things like multiplication, etc.. but they have a bunch of side effects 01:10:55 Razor-X: while(1){} would take 100% cpu 01:11:08 Razor-X: while(1){sleep(-1)} takes < 1 % cpu 01:11:11 exit; uses 0%. 01:11:16 jix: Incredible. 01:11:28 pikhq: but that doesn't infinite loop the process 01:11:47 jix: And why do you need an infinite loop that's doing no calculation? 01:11:56 pikhq: dunno 01:12:04 but when the bf code contains that the c code should do the same.... 01:13:52 I'm thinking of writing a BF interpreter for my TI. 01:14:01 Razor-X: i did the same 01:14:07 (thinking of it... not doing it ;) ) 01:14:12 jix: :D 01:14:25 Maybe a Forth interpreter too, since everyone says Forth is so easy. 01:14:35 * calamari puts jix's processor into an nth-complexity infinite binary loop 01:14:36 Razor-X: in ti basic? 01:14:43 jix: Ew no. 01:15:02 ever played with CASM? 01:15:09 Nope. 01:15:11 Razor-X: well i was thinking of doing that because i was at school and was bored... 01:15:22 onboard Ti-83+ assembler. much fun. 01:16:06 Razor-X: which ti do you have? 01:16:14 83+. 01:16:45 ah 01:17:11 RPL. ;) 01:17:21 Damn you :P 01:17:23 rpl? 01:17:27 (Note: I don't curse often.) 01:17:34 Reverse Polish Lisp. 01:17:40 The builtin language on my calculator. 01:17:40 huh? 01:17:57 HP Calculators use RPL by default. 01:18:09 yeah i know... but i just knew it under the name rpn 01:18:21 That's "reverse polish notation". 01:18:30 (and i have some add on for my ti-89 that allows me to use rpn) 01:18:40 RPL is a quirky Lisp, RPN is a way of specifying arguments. 01:18:47 ah 01:19:06 well i have rpn + ti CAS on my ti then 01:19:14 How? 01:19:15 (i use both normal mode and rpn) 01:19:24 (by "quirky", I mean "uses RPN and a stack for your Lisping") 01:19:28 Oh. TI-89. 01:19:44 pikhq: Sounds like Forth. 01:19:52 From the little Forth I know. 01:19:59 yeah 01:20:19 Razor-X: Has some elements of Forth in it; other than it's RPN nature, it's 100% Lisp. 01:20:26 pikhq: Rakki :P 01:21:06 i want to get this new ti nspire 01:21:55 is it in stores yet? 01:43:43 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:01:49 -!- wooby has joined. 02:03:58 hi wooby 02:04:34 calamari: whats up 02:04:55 not too much.. how are you? 02:05:03 doing pretty well 02:05:18 investigating bf hardware implementations 02:17:09 BF hardware implementations, eh? 02:18:32 sounds interesting. FPGA? 02:20:33 make one out of cmos or ttl chips :) 02:20:44 haha 02:20:49 then I can wire it up on my breadboard 02:21:24 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:23:11 that'd be a cool challenge.. 02:23:26 turing complete language requiring the least number of chips 02:23:36 (besides cpus) 02:24:39 so cpus are forbidden right? 02:24:43 right 02:24:58 you can't do a turing complete language in hardware ^^ 02:25:04 heh true 02:25:12 -!- jix has left (?). 02:25:19 -!- jix has joined. 02:25:20 dunno what to call it then :) 02:25:22 NARGH 02:25:59 so when implemented, bf is no longer turing complete.. but it's something 02:26:11 its a finite state machine 02:26:18 maybe just a very complex fsm 02:26:20 yeah hehe 02:26:43 well that's lame then 02:31:03 anyhow, if you wanted an easy bf cpu: 02:31:13 emulate bf on a pic microprocessor 02:31:19 or avr 02:32:36 does avr make a DIP version? 02:32:37 -!- jix__ has joined. 02:32:41 does avr make a DIP version? 02:32:56 (nice for the breadboard) 02:33:17 they do 02:33:27 hey look at that.. an avr with lcd display 02:33:28 cool 02:33:43 (i only worked with a µC once and it was an atmega32) 02:35:05 oh, not the display, just a driver 02:35:48 I've always wanted to build a computer.. but I have too many unfinished projects already 02:36:32 haha the same here 02:36:40 it'd be cool to have one capable of running off AA's 02:37:13 or some kind of rechargable battery pack 02:40:22 well i have a dual core 280mhz arm linux device (well linux knows only one of the cpus ^^) runnung of two aas 02:41:45 i have a cool idea! 02:42:15 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 02:43:16 a community designed language that goes that way.... there will be one moderator.... all other participants will send an email to the moderator naming 10 or so statements that the language should have... the moderator has the task to write a language specification that includes all those statements! 02:45:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 02:46:00 what do you think about this? 02:46:04 should i run such a thing? 02:46:14 Eh. 02:46:38 ihope_: huh? 02:46:40 So the language would be single statements? 02:46:44 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:46:58 well lets hope someone submits a statement that can be used for looping ^^ 02:47:15 And each collection of statements would have to work on its own, more-or-less? 02:47:27 huh? 02:47:36 I mean, they wouldn't easily be able to access each other's variables. 02:47:44 it's just that the proposals HAVE to go into the language 02:47:53 part of the game is gluing them all together 02:48:01 What if the proposals are unreasonable? 02:48:10 Like solving the halting problem? 02:48:16 For Turing machines, at that. 02:48:57 ihope_: well forbid things that aren't implementable using a turing machine 02:49:04 * ihope_ nods 02:49:05 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:49:05 (non deterministic one) 02:49:10 And I suddenly must go. 02:49:22 i think i'll write something up (rules) tomorrow 02:49:26 i have to sleep now 02:52:21 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 03:00:52 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:07:40 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:53:50 -!- anonfunc has joined. 04:11:08 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 05:03:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:13:03 -!- GregorR-L has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:13:03 -!- Asztal has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:13:03 -!- Eidolos has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:13:03 -!- sekhmet has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:13:05 -!- Razor-X has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:13:05 -!- GregorR has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:14:02 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 06:14:02 -!- Asztal has joined. 06:14:02 -!- sekhmet has joined. 06:14:02 -!- Razor-X has joined. 06:14:02 -!- GregorR has joined. 06:14:10 -!- Eidolos has joined. 06:38:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:38:38 -!- paparent has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:50:19 -!- paparent has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:28 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 08:23:02 -!- Razor-X has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:23:02 -!- Asztal has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:23:04 -!- GregorR has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:23:04 -!- sekhmet has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:25:38 -!- Asztal has joined. 08:25:38 -!- sekhmet has joined. 08:25:38 -!- Razor-X has joined. 08:25:38 -!- GregorR has joined. 08:46:23 -!- oerjan has quit ("Leaving"). 09:24:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:25:12 -!- clog has joined. 11:25:12 -!- clog has joined. 12:53:41 -!- ihope_ has joined. 12:53:42 -!- _Ann_ has joined. 12:53:49 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 12:54:41 -!- _Ann_ has left (?). 13:09:56 -!- _Ann_ has joined. 13:11:56 -!- _Ann_ has left (?). 13:43:08 -!- jix has joined. 13:43:51 moin 13:44:06 ug 13:50:48 i'll try to write up rules for the let's make a language by throwing together some statements 13:53:05 later ;) 14:11:11 -!- wooby has quit. 15:50:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:36:12 *echm* 16:36:13 HAH! 16:36:20 (basm.b is now smaller than wib.b 16:36:22 ) 16:37:22 where are they? 16:37:47 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.opt.b 16:40:09 pikhq: have you considered commenting it or inserting newlines? 16:44:34 SimonRC: I'll upload the BFM code in a bit. . . 16:46:37 * pikhq just moved the itoa code outside of the loops, so it was only included once 16:47:57 is it only used in one place or something? 16:48:07 No. . . 16:48:19 'cause otherwise you ould have to add a very slow function-call meachanism 16:48:51 Now, I've got the 4 places where it'd be used just set a value in memory, and a loop which runs once if that value has been set. . . 16:59:08 pikhq: i want to see the bfm code !!!!!!11111oneeleven 16:59:14 pikhq: btw where to get bfm? 17:10:05 pikhq: how big was your last version? 17:12:18 -!- ihope_ has joined. 17:12:33 this new one's only 5140 bytes... wow. 17:12:44 wasn't it like 11k before? 17:21:00 * SimonRC wishes he had chosen a BF optimisier as his project ;-). 17:28:44 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:58:07 -!- calamari has joined. 18:00:27 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 18:02:13 hi Rob 18:02:19 hullo 18:02:24 what's shakin'? 18:03:07 nothing :) 18:03:16 cool. 18:03:21 I'm at work waiting for lunch to arrive 18:12:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:17:15 jix: I know what the LUT_VALS are ;) 18:48:21 oerjan: i know what they are but not how i got them 18:49:36 well, the theoretical way is to use a variant of the Euclidean algorithm 18:50:12 but for numbers this small a simpler search would also do 18:57:12 in Haskell: [m |n <- [3,5..253], m <- [3,5..253], (m*n) `mod` 256 == 255] 19:02:19 -!- Robdgreat has quit. 19:52:12 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 20:01:46 jix: The instruction AWE which multiplies every point of memory to the right and left of the pointer of 5 units by a random number of half the bit-width of each memory location. 20:01:59 what? 20:02:36 uhm you know that there isn't a make-a-language-with-many-obscure-statements thing yet.... 20:02:54 and the statements will be submitted by mail so others don't know what the other statements are 20:03:00 so you don't influence each other 20:03:04 Aw :( 20:03:31 hmm i should really write the rules up and start such a thing 20:06:43 i need a name for this thing 20:06:55 I have a couple of good command ideas. 20:07:02 RodgerTheGreat: psshhh 20:07:48 call it "Schnitzel". All the chicken feet and pig noses ground into a useable language. 20:08:04 no 20:08:14 Chimera 20:08:21 not a name for the language but a name for the progress of creating one 20:08:27 (i need a title for the wiki page) 20:08:33 "Stone Soup programming" 20:09:50 Programming Potluck 20:09:59 something descriptive... 20:10:21 "Meatgrinder Esoterica" 20:10:35 nonono..... 20:10:51 From the Esophagus 20:10:57 be more descriptive of what you want. 20:11:13 a title for the wiki page to write down the rules of the thing i described yesterday 20:12:01 this reminds me of the old Fantasy Rules Committee 20:12:34 i remember we did a programming language in that 20:13:12 "Double-Blind Collaborative Esolang Design" 20:13:18 RodgerTheGreat: perfect! 20:13:35 Not double-blind. Just blind. 20:13:43 [/statistics anal-ism] 20:14:04 hm, the first letters are nearly in alphabetical order 20:14:24 Hm. Well, it would be double-blind if the first coders were neither the "suggestors" or the "integrator" 20:14:36 Blind Collaborative Design Esolang 20:14:44 haha 20:15:18 just needs something with A 20:15:33 hmm i want that everyone (even the moderator) can submit between 5 and 15 statements 20:16:00 Allgemeine 20:16:24 and then everyone can help writing up a spec that contains those statements 20:17:05 could add Factory to the end 20:17:33 we don't need to have an ABCDEF acronym! 20:17:35 "adjudicated blind collaborative design esolang factory" 20:17:41 but i wanna! 20:17:49 but that really sounds cool 20:17:56 i just have to look up adj... 20:18:00 http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=adjudicated 20:18:12 "to settle or determine (an issue or dispute) judicially." 20:18:25 RodgerTheGreat: uhm i ment like in english german dictionary 20:18:36 ? 20:19:08 ok 20:19:11 i'll name it that way 20:19:16 woo 20:19:54 but i probably need a bit of help writing this up... 20:21:33 i just write it down and someone who has a better english than me can correct it 20:22:36 better english for glorious design esolang 20:22:42 I can review your grammar and spelling. 20:22:55 yeah but i'm kind of stuck in the first sentence :( 20:23:11 it's more that i have no idea what to write than english.... 20:24:31 you could start by explaining how you came to this idea, and then describe the general concept and process. 20:24:51 i'll first write down the rules... that's the easiest part 20:24:52 then outline submission guidelines and open the floodgates, so to speak. 20:25:15 hm.. guidelines, that's G 20:26:04 This section will describe the Rules according to the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory Guidelines ;) 20:26:15 haha 20:27:13 you should probably impose some basic rules for the language up-front (like one-dimensional code) up-front, so that command ideas will be vaguely compatible with one another. 20:27:24 no! 20:27:40 that's the funny part... getting all those obscure things into one language 20:27:53 there should as few restrictions as possible 20:28:04 only things like code is in ascii charset etc 20:28:09 somehow, I get the feeling you aren't going to be coding the reference interpreter. 20:28:10 turing implementability was mentioned 20:28:16 RodgerTheGreat: i'd like to! 20:28:17 what, no Unicode? 20:28:24 oerjan: ascii compatible then 20:28:45 unicode is a superset of ASCII, so if you coded in unicode you could generate or use ASCII 20:29:35 No EBDIC code? :( 20:29:44 大変です。 20:30:19 well, if you're that insistent... 20:30:24 Razor-X: well if two features can't go together a compromise has to be found 20:31:11 BEG, RNG, RRQ, RRT, ACK, FIN. 20:31:34 but stop posting ideas for statements etc... that'll take the fun out of it.... 20:31:39 tell me, Razor-X- do you have a computer that uses EBCDIC? 20:31:42 No, this is for my own project. 20:31:46 RodgerTheGreat: No :P 20:31:47 ah ok 20:31:57 lol 20:32:25 It would be sorta pointless to implement these commands, because they're being used in packet transfer. 20:32:33 statements are one thing, but what about expressions? 20:33:03 you can suggest whatever you want that is a bit statement like 20:33:32 surely you don't want to restrict this language to only imperative features? 20:33:34 let's say something like "majority rule for decisions like RPN vs PN (or both simultaneously)" 20:33:42 oerjan: no 20:33:50 the alternative is "everything suggestions assume works must be implemented somehow" 20:34:04 there should be as much implemented as possible 20:34:09 making the language very obscure 20:34:37 hm, this language will be worse than Magenta... 20:35:10 btw i got this idea while reading through the intercal specs 20:36:59 Magenta? 20:37:11 they can have that effect on people. 20:38:07 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Magenta 20:40:17 It'll either be the best thing since sliced bread or the worst hellish piece of language ever. 20:41:22 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa"). 20:41:47 potentially both simultaneously! 20:42:00 That too. 20:42:07 But will this be stack based or expression based? 20:42:21 who knows... 20:42:26 I got the impression it might be both, 20:42:26 what do you mean, _or_? 20:42:30 I dunno 20:42:41 it'll be whatever comes out of the factory 20:42:41 Well, C isn't stack based. 20:42:50 So... it'll be both, huh? 20:42:53 Scary. 20:42:59 haha. 20:42:59 but wait until i've written down the rules according to the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory Guidelines 20:43:06 this ought to be quite fun. 20:43:17 The abbreviation is ABCDEF! 20:43:22 * RodgerTheGreat percolates his brain-juices 20:43:22 *ABCDEFG 20:43:39 it's kismet, it would seem. 20:43:48 *DEATH* 20:44:17 lol 20:44:45 oh and NEVER abbreviate Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory 20:44:50 just 19 more letters to go. 20:44:54 that'll make the whole thing a lot more funny 20:44:55 got it. 20:45:22 AKA Abbreviate it and write some sort of a preproccessor that expands out the abbreviation :P 20:45:39 Hey! Let's ask CakeProphet to write it in Wiki code! 20:46:11 um, that is a trivial template. 20:46:32 Dun ask me, I know nothing of Wiki markup. 20:46:38 But if it was LaTeX.... 20:48:08 ah, \LaTeX{}... 20:55:02 here is the first version feel free to fix it up: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 20:55:16 but don't remove the mentions of the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory (Guidelines) 20:57:57 nargh i fucked up the last sentence 20:58:11 RodgerTheGreat: are you editing the site atm? 20:58:28 no 20:58:39 should I now? 20:58:39 ok let me complete the last sentence 20:59:41 RodgerTheGreat: now 21:03:13 I'm working... 21:03:52 Is a qsort of 1024 elements too heavy on memory? 21:05:22 can't imagine how. qsort is in-place, usually. 21:05:40 was that a joke? :) 21:05:44 But it uses recursion, and I'm not using tail recursion here. 21:06:02 well it'l only recurse log(1024) depth 21:06:12 Yeah. 21:06:15 (averagely) 21:06:36 where log is base 2 logarithm 21:06:37 on average. worst case could be about 1024 21:06:52 oerjan: there are ways to stop qsort from doing this 21:07:28 Now I'm wondering whether log(1024) recursion will be too heavy for this or not. 21:07:38 log_2 :P 21:07:41 level 10 recursion too heavy? 21:07:57 Maybe. 21:08:04 Because it'll be doing a lot of other things too. 21:08:28 hm... 21:09:09 well, use mergesort then, you can easily avoid recursion. 21:09:17 there, done. I think I cleaned up the majority of it. 21:09:19 Tradeoffs tradeoffs. 21:10:29 RodgerTheGreat: thx 21:10:42 ok i should run the thing now 21:10:56 I wonder how Java will handle this when I decide to make it cross-platform :P 21:11:48 i think you can make the recursion very light on memory by just using the boundary indices as parameters, keeping the array in an outer scope 21:12:14 Hmmm.... 21:14:13 Java handles infinite recursion quite well, actually, because it has a garbage-collector. 21:14:49 although if you pass it by reference it won't be much anyhow 21:15:25 Not recursion RodgerTheGreat. From what I've heard, it's very good with recursion. 21:16:21 But a lot of the application I'm basing around memory tradeoffs (because I'm trying to take overhead off the network arch onto the systems participating in the transfer, because we aren't running super-weak machines anymore) and I'm hoping I can express the analogies in Java. 21:16:28 how long should the statement collection phase last? 21:16:48 -!- calamari has joined. 21:17:17 2 days? 1 day (it shouldn't last too long it doesn't take long to write down about 10 statements) 21:18:02 RodgerTheGreat: Razor-X: oerjan: ? 21:18:04 yeah- I already have a pair that works together that should give you all aneurisms. 21:18:11 two days sounds fair 21:18:24 it can take a while to get a good idea... 21:18:54 i'll make it two days 21:19:24 I was under the impression that we could build languages like this several times, and this first one will be primarily a test of the method. So, oerjan, if you come up short this round, you'll have more chances. 21:21:19 its online 21:21:20 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 21:21:51 uh wait i forgot to write down my own statements first 21:22:22 well i wont look into the mails before i completed my list anyway.... it'll take out the fzn 21:22:23 fun 21:23:14 jix: I'm about to check the rules, but for reference, how many entries per person? 21:23:22 5-15 21:23:48 面白いわね!! 21:23:57 huh? 21:24:08 Awesome! 21:24:36 obviously a colloquialism. 21:24:53 the translation of that phrase is seriously fucked up. 21:24:59 "Don't you think? funny [wa]" 21:25:05 ... :D 21:25:11 面白い means cool, interesting, etc. 21:25:16 ah 21:25:27 It's a typical adjective. 21:25:37 But you use adjectives by themselves to express a feeling or emotion. 21:25:48 わね is 21:25:57 jix: it might just possibly be a good idea if you were to put your email address somewhere reachable from the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory page 21:26:20 oerjan: uhm my email address is there 21:26:31 in the 2nd sentence 21:26:41 after the TOC 21:27:15 (i don't fear spam... i'll get a lot of it anyway) 21:29:34 sorry, looked at old version 21:29:39 I really need to code binary functions for my calculator. 21:30:13 Lot more because well.... the calculator has a processor too :P 21:30:21 *Lot more effecient 21:31:19 -!- tgwizard has joined. 21:32:44 hmm we should put that in the topic i think 21:33:08 Which? 21:33:14 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 21:33:17 Aha. 21:33:22 -!- jix has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - competition: http://esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest - http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicate. 21:33:27 nargh too long 21:33:40 anyone surprised? :) 21:33:46 the competition is over now right? 21:34:06 Yeah, it's over. 21:34:18 nargh 21:34:33 -!- jix has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory. 21:42:16 i have 4 statements now... but i want to get at least 10 21:44:36 haha this lang will get ridiculous 21:47:21 it will with the two statements i just invented 21:47:46 hehe 21:50:31 I have 6 so far. 21:50:36 -!- Keymaker has joined. 21:50:53 I have a mix of mindlessly painful and genuinely useful commands. 21:50:58 some are both. 21:50:59 Keymaker: check topic/ esolangs.org mainpage / http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 21:51:06 RodgerTheGreat: same here 21:51:30 reading now.. 21:54:31 interesting idea 21:55:07 i can think of painless and useless commands only :D 21:55:35 Keymaker: no problem, there will be enough of both 21:57:33 Mmm... my handshaking process is complicated :( 21:57:36 * calamari is old :( going to my 10 year high school reunion tonight 21:57:43 Shows how a project evolves. 21:57:53 a 21:58:12 b 21:58:15 cheer up calamari, everyone gets older day by day 21:58:40 hehe 21:59:01 :) btw, haven't read logs for a while, how is your ipod language? 21:59:06 that's like saying "My best friend died." "That's OK, people die every day. you might die soon." 21:59:06 any specs yet anywhere? 21:59:16 dunno if there are specs 21:59:26 ok 21:59:27 I'm a second older! 21:59:39 RodgerTheGreat: It's a common joke at our school. 21:59:41 but I haven't been working on it as much since the main compilers project is getting intense 21:59:56 main compiler? 22:00:01 ``You're gonna die, '' ``I know.'' 22:00:05 writteny by you too? 22:00:05 I'm taking a compiler class 22:00:10 ah 22:00:11 ok 22:00:32 before i hated compilers, nowadays i'm interested in making one 22:00:34 I figured I should learn how to use flex/bison 22:00:36 but no time right now 22:00:57 Writing parsers bugs me, but flex/bison is pretty convenint. 22:01:13 doing semantic checking right now 22:01:45 Hah. Lame pun. Writing parsers bugs me. 22:02:04 writing parsers by hand is fun 22:02:14 see bfbasic ;) 22:02:17 Pshh :P 22:02:22 Well, BF is something. 22:02:28 Writing a Plof parser is something else. 22:02:34 plof? 22:02:36 plof? 22:02:39 jinx! 22:02:43 GregorR will kill you both :P 22:03:03 nice 22:03:07 It's GregorR's non-esoteric attempt at a marriage between an imperative and functional language, while making it a P-language. 22:03:31 if he comes around I have a nifty hat that will placate him 22:03:42 Now only Keymaker will die. 22:03:49 From GregorR's hand. 22:03:56 i see 22:04:19 p-language? 22:04:45 Python, Perl, PHP, and notably Ruby. 22:04:51 ahh 22:05:14 imperative is the same as procedural, right ? 22:05:18 so many new users here.. i can recognize only half the names, almost 22:05:19 Yahr. 22:05:29 Keymaker: Only have of us talk :) 22:05:32 *half 22:05:38 heh 22:06:02 * Asztal 's in the other half 22:06:21 i was reading logs a bit and too lazy to read them all, what is pikhq's basm? 22:06:56 a brainfuck 2 c converter written in brainfuck 22:07:01 does simple optimizations 22:07:09 ah. nice 22:07:20 is shorter than wib.b now and does more optimizations (optimizes >>> <<< +++ and ---) 22:07:34 Optimizalicious! 22:07:38 :D 22:07:43 Razor-X: got it! 22:07:59 You can make it optimize arbitrary strings of the same operation. 22:08:12 *arbitrary length 22:09:06 nice. was just going to ask if there's any limit for rows of same character 22:09:25 No as in, you can possibly do it. 22:09:30 I dunno if pikhq has implemented it. 22:09:34 aha 22:09:41 then what did you mean? 22:09:51 I can think of code to optimize it, kinda. 22:10:57 oh afk TV 22:12:37 hah i have 9 statements allready 22:12:40 afk really now 22:15:48 -!- jix has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:16:04 -!- jix has joined. 22:16:25 I'm almost done with my submision. ^_^ 22:25:25 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:30:09 -!- lindi- has joined. 22:33:26 COMPLETE 22:36:01 submitted. 22:37:47 * RodgerTheGreat begins staring at his clock, waiting for 22:20 GMT on the 23rd. 22:41:29 bbl- food. 23:03:57 back 23:04:04 how's everyone doing? 23:07:03 good.. just ate too 23:07:13 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 23:09:18 Historically, gcc 1.34 demonstrated just what "implementation-defined" really means in C. 23:09:24 "GCC, upon finding a #pragma directive, would instead attempt to start Emacs running a simulation of the Towers of Hanoi." 23:09:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior 23:09:42 haha 23:10:49 That sounds very effecient. 23:11:27 "This specifically frees the compiler to do whatever is easiest or most efficient, should such a program be entered." 23:11:40 might've been "easiest", instead. 23:33:30 A-ping. 23:33:53 i could not resist putting a similar implementation-defined into my latest statement. 23:34:00 A-ping a'calamari 23:34:29 hi 23:34:38 you rang? 23:35:56 a few of my commands have interesting behavior when you feed them inappropriate input. 23:36:18 calamari: if he comes around I have a nifty hat that will placate him 23:36:34 RodgerTheGreat, hm? 23:36:35 GregorR: yeah, next time you're in Arizona ;) 23:36:44 And are there esolangs with undef behavior? 23:36:54 calamari: They have these magical things called "digital cameras" nowadays, 23:36:56 BF has undefined behavior. 23:37:22 yea, many esolang has 23:37:24 GregorR: they also have this magical stuff called cash.. which you don't seem to have much of once you have kids ;) 23:37:33 Ha-HAH 23:37:48 even so, I'm getting my wife a digital camera for christmas 23:37:57 need to start shopping for one 23:39:44 There should be an article for BFComp 23:41:20 it's probably the only piece of esolang hardware along the physical whirl computer (made of cardboard) 23:41:30 Did you know... PDP-11 bootloaders indicated different loading problems by doing infinite loops at various locations 23:43:52 RodgerTheGreat: your email went unread into my Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory mailbox 23:44:18 GregorR: are you going to participate too? 23:47:11 was there some function for converting a number to a string of 8-bit bytes? 23:47:31 in c 23:48:08 several 23:50:14 keep in mind, guys, we will need *some* reasonably normal functions, operators, variable types and control structures if we want this language to be useable. 23:51:07 possibly some stdio-related things, etc. 23:52:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:54:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:55:28 bbl- mozart.