00:03:54 <pikhq> I'm going to set it down for now.
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00:41:17 <pikhq> Anyone *else* wish to comment?
00:43:18 <jix> isn't there such a converter allready?
00:43:39 <pikhq> Yeah; I compared mine to it a while ago.
00:43:50 <jix> is it shorter than your current one?
00:44:12 <pikhq> Yes, but not by much. . .
00:44:18 <pikhq> And I'm not done optimising at all.
00:45:12 <pikhq> I can probably pull out a few hundred more characters. . .
00:45:56 <pikhq> Lots more if I find a small, simple divide by 10 code segment which can be changed to output mode, too (that's where most of the logic code's size comes from).
00:46:44 <jix> your does basic optimisations?
00:46:49 <jix> (wib.b does)
00:47:10 <jix> but only for + and - not for rows of > and <
00:47:24 <pikhq> Mine does it for + - > and <
00:47:45 <jix> uhm what interpreter does yours require?
00:47:52 <pikhq> And mine, unlike wib.b, outputs C code for EOF=0.
00:48:05 <pikhq> Any where EOF=0 and cells wrap (at 8 bits).
00:48:10 <jix> i get funny chars when i run your code
00:48:31 <pikhq> Try the latest one; found a small handful of bugs
00:48:56 <jix> i get this: Ｃｩｮ｣ｬu､･ <ｳt､ｩｯ.ｨ>
00:49:34 <pikhq> You *sure* you're running on an 8 bit, cell-wrapping, EOF=0 Brainfuck implementation?
00:49:57 <RodgerTheGreat> and your machine operates with an ASCII character set?
00:50:18 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Oh, right; that's the most obvious assumption to ask about. XD
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00:50:34 <jix> awib worked (when i set eof mode to -1)
00:50:49 <pikhq> awib doesn't use wrapping cells.
00:50:53 <pikhq> Mine depends upon it.
00:50:54 <RodgerTheGreat> you never know in #Esoteric- he could be using EBCDIC for all I know...
00:51:13 <jix> pikhq: wrapping works
00:51:32 <jix> pikhq: does yours move into negative mem offests?
00:51:33 <pikhq> (or ask me to upload the corresponding C code)
00:51:51 <RodgerTheGreat> if you're using a mac, I can offer an interpreter that's compatible with pikhq's code.
00:51:58 <jix> i'll try with egobf
00:52:00 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: i am
00:52:23 <pikhq> I recommend trying basm with basm. :p
00:52:44 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: yuck! realbasic...
00:53:03 <jix> i started programming with realbasic... but now i hate it
00:53:27 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.c Basm, as compiled by basm.
00:53:29 <RodgerTheGreat> I might get around to coding a GUI frontend for my Java based interpreter sometime soon... hm.
00:54:13 <jix> i use BF Debugger
00:54:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I was only aware of the windows-based version of that.
00:54:58 <jix> it's a java app
00:55:18 <jix> but it really screws up basm
00:55:47 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: yeah
00:55:51 <jix> it does work there
00:56:01 <jix> the same code fails in bf debugger
00:56:04 <pikhq> You *sure* that that's coded right?
00:56:12 <pikhq> (BF debugger, that is)
00:56:18 <jix> pikhq: ask calamari
00:56:40 <jix> i'll try it with my own bf2c converter that does a lot of optimization
00:57:20 <jix> this one http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl/bf2a-0.2p0.rb
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01:00:10 <jix> hmm my compiler expects eof == -1
01:00:20 <jix> (because it just calls getchar())
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01:00:44 <RodgerTheGreat> hey, Razor-X - what's the status of those neural-net experiments you were doing earlier?
01:01:15 <pikhq> Try my own compiled version.
01:01:34 <jix> i really love those: LUT_VALS = [ ....a lot of numbers ...] #they are correct.. don't ask me why
01:02:10 <jix> i don't remember how i got them but they do work ..... ;]
01:03:46 <jix> well now i don't understand the program at all... but it is one of the most optimizing brainfuck compilers that exist
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01:05:44 <jix> it somehow translates brainfuck to an intermediate language i called A and translates that into c
01:06:08 <pikhq> Too much of it for my tastes.
01:06:23 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: I have a basic transfer function neuron model coded.
01:06:40 <Razor-X> But I need some books to implement more complicated things like sigmoids.
01:07:56 <jix> it works in 3 stages.... stage 1 does obvious optimizations on the brainfuck code... in stage 2 it tries to detect high level things in the bf code and translates it in to the according a code... and the yet unwritten stage 3 should do optimizations on the a code
01:08:29 <jix> hell! i even implemented an efficient infinite loop ^^
01:08:40 <jix> that doesn't waste cpu cycles
01:09:15 <Asztal> that's going to be a real pain the neck when I'm writing my befunge interpreter :<
01:09:19 <calamari> one thing that I'm not sure has been addressed with bf optimizations are useless memory cells
01:09:39 * pikhq is currently proud of basm.b. . .
01:10:15 <Razor-X> jix: What's optimizing about that? PSSH.
01:10:42 <calamari> when bf is computing, there are values everyhwere, but only some are actually useful in the computation.. others are for doing things like multiplication, etc.. but they have a bunch of side effects
01:10:55 <jix> Razor-X: while(1){} would take 100% cpu
01:11:08 <jix> Razor-X: while(1){sleep(-1)} takes < 1 % cpu
01:11:28 <jix> pikhq: but that doesn't infinite loop the process
01:11:47 <pikhq> jix: And why do you need an infinite loop that's doing no calculation?
01:11:56 <jix> pikhq: dunno
01:12:04 <jix> but when the bf code contains that the c code should do the same....
01:13:52 <Razor-X> I'm thinking of writing a BF interpreter for my TI.
01:14:01 <jix> Razor-X: i did the same
01:14:07 <jix> (thinking of it... not doing it ;) )
01:14:25 <Razor-X> Maybe a Forth interpreter too, since everyone says Forth is so easy.
01:14:35 * calamari puts jix's processor into an nth-complexity infinite binary loop
01:14:36 <jix> Razor-X: in ti basic?
01:15:11 <jix> Razor-X: well i was thinking of doing that because i was at school and was bored...
01:16:06 <jix> Razor-X: which ti do you have?
01:17:27 <Razor-X> (Note: I don't curse often.)
01:17:34 <pikhq> Reverse Polish Lisp.
01:17:40 <pikhq> The builtin language on my calculator.
01:17:57 <Razor-X> HP Calculators use RPL by default.
01:18:09 <jix> yeah i know... but i just knew it under the name rpn
01:18:21 <pikhq> That's "reverse polish notation".
01:18:30 <jix> (and i have some add on for my ti-89 that allows me to use rpn)
01:18:40 <pikhq> RPL is a quirky Lisp, RPN is a way of specifying arguments.
01:19:06 <jix> well i have rpn + ti CAS on my ti then
01:19:15 <jix> (i use both normal mode and rpn)
01:19:24 <pikhq> (by "quirky", I mean "uses RPN and a stack for your Lisping")
01:19:52 <Razor-X> From the little Forth I know.
01:20:19 <pikhq> Razor-X: Has some elements of Forth in it; other than it's RPN nature, it's 100% Lisp.
01:21:06 <jix> i want to get this new ti nspire
01:21:55 <jix> is it in stores yet?
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02:04:34 <wooby> calamari: whats up
02:05:18 <wooby> investigating bf hardware implementations
02:17:09 <ihope_> BF hardware implementations, eh?
02:20:33 <calamari> make one out of cmos or ttl chips :)
02:20:49 <calamari> then I can wire it up on my breadboard
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02:23:26 <calamari> turing complete language requiring the least number of chips
02:24:39 <jix> so cpus are forbidden right?
02:24:58 <jix> you can't do a turing complete language in hardware ^^
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02:25:59 <calamari> so when implemented, bf is no longer turing complete.. but it's something
02:26:11 <jix> its a finite state machine
02:31:03 <calamari> anyhow, if you wanted an easy bf cpu:
02:31:13 <calamari> emulate bf on a pic microprocessor
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02:33:27 <calamari> hey look at that.. an avr with lcd display
02:33:43 <jix__> (i only worked with a µC once and it was an atmega32)
02:35:05 <calamari> oh, not the display, just a driver
02:35:48 <calamari> I've always wanted to build a computer.. but I have too many unfinished projects already
02:36:32 <jix__> haha the same here
02:36:40 <calamari> it'd be cool to have one capable of running off AA's
02:37:13 <calamari> or some kind of rechargable battery pack
02:40:22 <jix__> well i have a dual core 280mhz arm linux device (well linux knows only one of the cpus ^^) runnung of two aas
02:41:45 <jix__> i have a cool idea!
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02:43:16 <jix__> a community designed language that goes that way.... there will be one moderator.... all other participants will send an email to the moderator naming 10 or so statements that the language should have... the moderator has the task to write a language specification that includes all those statements!
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02:46:00 <jix__> what do you think about this?
02:46:04 <jix__> should i run such a thing?
02:46:40 <ihope_> So the language would be single statements?
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02:46:58 <jix__> well lets hope someone submits a statement that can be used for looping ^^
02:47:15 <ihope_> And each collection of statements would have to work on its own, more-or-less?
02:47:36 <ihope_> I mean, they wouldn't easily be able to access each other's variables.
02:47:44 <jix__> it's just that the proposals HAVE to go into the language
02:47:53 <jix__> part of the game is gluing them all together
02:48:01 <ihope_> What if the proposals are unreasonable?
02:48:10 <ihope_> Like solving the halting problem?
02:48:16 <ihope_> For Turing machines, at that.
02:48:57 <jix__> ihope_: well forbid things that aren't implementable using a turing machine
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02:49:05 <jix__> (non deterministic one)
02:49:10 <ihope_> And I suddenly must go.
02:49:22 <jix__> i think i'll write something up (rules) tomorrow
02:49:26 <jix__> i have to sleep now
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13:50:48 <jix> i'll try to write up rules for the let's make a language by throwing together some statements
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16:36:20 <pikhq> (basm.b is now smaller than wib.b
16:37:47 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.opt.b
16:40:09 <SimonRC> pikhq: have you considered commenting it or inserting newlines?
16:44:34 <pikhq> SimonRC: I'll upload the BFM code in a bit. . .
16:46:37 * pikhq just moved the itoa code outside of the loops, so it was only included once
16:47:57 <SimonRC> is it only used in one place or something?
16:48:19 <SimonRC> 'cause otherwise you ould have to add a very slow function-call meachanism
16:48:51 <pikhq> Now, I've got the 4 places where it'd be used just set a value in memory, and a loop which runs once if that value has been set. . .
16:59:08 <jix> pikhq: i want to see the bfm code !!!!!!11111oneeleven
16:59:14 <jix> pikhq: btw where to get bfm?
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17:21:00 * SimonRC wishes he had chosen a BF optimisier as his project ;-).
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18:03:21 <Robdgreat> I'm at work waiting for lunch to arrive
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18:17:15 <oerjan> jix: I know what the LUT_VALS are ;)
18:48:21 <jix> oerjan: i know what they are but not how i got them
18:49:36 <oerjan> well, the theoretical way is to use a variant of the Euclidean algorithm
18:50:12 <oerjan> but for numbers this small a simpler search would also do
18:57:12 <oerjan> in Haskell: [m |n <- [3,5..253], m <- [3,5..253], (m*n) `mod` 256 == 255]
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20:01:46 <Razor-X> jix: The instruction AWE which multiplies every point of memory to the right and left of the pointer of 5 units by a random number of half the bit-width of each memory location.
20:02:36 <jix> uhm you know that there isn't a make-a-language-with-many-obscure-statements thing yet....
20:02:54 <jix> and the statements will be submitted by mail so others don't know what the other statements are
20:03:00 <jix> so you don't influence each other
20:03:31 <jix> hmm i should really write the rules up and start such a thing
20:06:43 <jix> i need a name for this thing
20:07:02 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: psshhh
20:07:48 <RodgerTheGreat> call it "Schnitzel". All the chicken feet and pig noses ground into a useable language.
20:08:21 <jix> not a name for the language but a name for the progress of creating one
20:08:27 <jix> (i need a title for the wiki page)
20:09:59 <jix> something descriptive...
20:10:35 <jix> nonono.....
20:11:13 <jix> a title for the wiki page to write down the rules of the thing i described yesterday
20:12:01 <oerjan> this reminds me of the old Fantasy Rules Committee
20:12:34 <oerjan> i remember we did a programming language in that
20:13:18 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: perfect!
20:13:35 <Razor-X> Not double-blind. Just blind.
20:14:04 <oerjan> hm, the first letters are nearly in alphabetical order
20:14:24 <RodgerTheGreat> Hm. Well, it would be double-blind if the first coders were neither the "suggestors" or the "integrator"
20:14:36 <oerjan> Blind Collaborative Design Esolang
20:15:18 <oerjan> just needs something with A
20:15:33 <jix> hmm i want that everyone (even the moderator) can submit between 5 and 15 statements
20:16:24 <jix> and then everyone can help writing up a spec that contains those statements
20:17:05 <oerjan> could add Factory to the end
20:17:33 <jix> we don't need to have an ABCDEF acronym!
20:17:35 <RodgerTheGreat> "adjudicated blind collaborative design esolang factory"
20:17:49 <jix> but that really sounds cool
20:17:56 <jix> i just have to look up adj...
20:18:00 <RodgerTheGreat> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=adjudicated
20:18:12 <RodgerTheGreat> "to settle or determine (an issue or dispute) judicially."
20:18:25 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: uhm i ment like in english german dictionary
20:19:11 <jix> i'll name it that way
20:19:54 <jix> but i probably need a bit of help writing this up...
20:21:33 <jix> i just write it down and someone who has a better english than me can correct it
20:22:36 <oerjan> better english for glorious design esolang
20:22:55 <jix> yeah but i'm kind of stuck in the first sentence :(
20:23:11 <jix> it's more that i have no idea what to write than english....
20:24:31 <RodgerTheGreat> you could start by explaining how you came to this idea, and then describe the general concept and process.
20:24:51 <jix> i'll first write down the rules... that's the easiest part
20:24:52 <RodgerTheGreat> then outline submission guidelines and open the floodgates, so to speak.
20:25:15 <oerjan> hm.. guidelines, that's G
20:26:04 <jix> This section will describe the Rules according to the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory Guidelines ;)
20:27:13 <RodgerTheGreat> you should probably impose some basic rules for the language up-front (like one-dimensional code) up-front, so that command ideas will be vaguely compatible with one another.
20:27:40 <jix> that's the funny part... getting all those obscure things into one language
20:27:53 <jix> there should as few restrictions as possible
20:28:04 <jix> only things like code is in ascii charset etc
20:28:09 <RodgerTheGreat> somehow, I get the feeling you aren't going to be coding the reference interpreter.
20:28:10 <oerjan> turing implementability was mentioned
20:28:16 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: i'd like to!
20:28:24 <jix> oerjan: ascii compatible then
20:28:45 <RodgerTheGreat> unicode is a superset of ASCII, so if you coded in unicode you could generate or use ASCII
20:30:24 <jix> Razor-X: well if two features can't go together a compromise has to be found
20:31:11 <Razor-X> BEG, RNG, RRQ, RRT, ACK, FIN.
20:31:34 <jix> but stop posting ideas for statements etc... that'll take the fun out of it....
20:31:39 <RodgerTheGreat> tell me, Razor-X- do you have a computer that uses EBCDIC?
20:31:42 <Razor-X> No, this is for my own project.
20:32:25 <Razor-X> It would be sorta pointless to implement these commands, because they're being used in packet transfer.
20:32:33 <oerjan> statements are one thing, but what about expressions?
20:33:03 <jix> you can suggest whatever you want that is a bit statement like
20:33:32 <oerjan> surely you don't want to restrict this language to only imperative features?
20:33:34 <RodgerTheGreat> let's say something like "majority rule for decisions like RPN vs PN (or both simultaneously)"
20:33:42 <jix> oerjan: no
20:33:50 <RodgerTheGreat> the alternative is "everything suggestions assume works must be implemented somehow"
20:34:04 <jix> there should be as much implemented as possible
20:34:09 <jix> making the language very obscure
20:34:37 <oerjan> hm, this language will be worse than Magenta...
20:35:10 <jix> btw i got this idea while reading through the intercal specs
20:38:07 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Magenta
20:40:17 <Razor-X> It'll either be the best thing since sliced bread or the worst hellish piece of language ever.
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20:42:07 <Razor-X> But will this be stack based or expression based?
20:42:21 <jix> who knows...
20:42:26 <oerjan> what do you mean, _or_?
20:42:41 <jix> it'll be whatever comes out of the factory
20:42:41 <Razor-X> Well, C isn't stack based.
20:42:59 <jix> but wait until i've written down the rules according to the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory Guidelines
20:43:17 <Razor-X> The abbreviation is ABCDEF!
20:44:45 <jix> oh and NEVER abbreviate Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory
20:44:54 <jix> that'll make the whole thing a lot more funny
20:45:22 <Razor-X> AKA Abbreviate it and write some sort of a preproccessor that expands out the abbreviation :P
20:45:39 <Razor-X> Hey! Let's ask CakeProphet to write it in Wiki code!
20:46:11 <oerjan> um, that is a trivial template.
20:46:32 <Razor-X> Dun ask me, I know nothing of Wiki markup.
20:55:02 <jix> here is the first version feel free to fix it up: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory
20:55:16 <jix> but don't remove the mentions of the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory (Guidelines)
20:57:57 <jix> nargh i fucked up the last sentence
20:58:11 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: are you editing the site atm?
20:58:39 <jix> ok let me complete the last sentence
20:59:41 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: now
21:03:52 <Razor-X> Is a qsort of 1024 elements too heavy on memory?
21:05:22 <oerjan> can't imagine how. qsort is in-place, usually.
21:05:44 <Razor-X> But it uses recursion, and I'm not using tail recursion here.
21:06:02 <jix> well it'l only recurse log(1024) depth
21:06:15 <jix> (averagely)
21:06:36 <jix> where log is base 2 logarithm
21:06:37 <oerjan> on average. worst case could be about 1024
21:06:52 <jix> oerjan: there are ways to stop qsort from doing this
21:07:28 <Razor-X> Now I'm wondering whether log(1024) recursion will be too heavy for this or not.
21:07:41 <jix> level 10 recursion too heavy?
21:08:04 <Razor-X> Because it'll be doing a lot of other things too.
21:09:09 <oerjan> well, use mergesort then, you can easily avoid recursion.
21:10:29 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: thx
21:10:42 <jix> ok i should run the thing now
21:10:56 <Razor-X> I wonder how Java will handle this when I decide to make it cross-platform :P
21:11:48 <oerjan> i think you can make the recursion very light on memory by just using the boundary indices as parameters, keeping the array in an outer scope
21:14:13 <RodgerTheGreat> Java handles infinite recursion quite well, actually, because it has a garbage-collector.
21:14:49 <oerjan> although if you pass it by reference it won't be much anyhow
21:15:25 <Razor-X> Not recursion RodgerTheGreat. From what I've heard, it's very good with recursion.
21:16:21 <Razor-X> But a lot of the application I'm basing around memory tradeoffs (because I'm trying to take overhead off the network arch onto the systems participating in the transfer, because we aren't running super-weak machines anymore) and I'm hoping I can express the analogies in Java.
21:16:28 <jix> how long should the statement collection phase last?
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21:17:17 <jix> 2 days? 1 day (it shouldn't last too long it doesn't take long to write down about 10 statements)
21:18:02 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: Razor-X: oerjan: ?
21:18:04 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah- I already have a pair that works together that should give you all aneurisms.
21:18:24 <oerjan> it can take a while to get a good idea...
21:18:54 <jix> i'll make it two days
21:19:24 <RodgerTheGreat> I was under the impression that we could build languages like this several times, and this first one will be primarily a test of the method. So, oerjan, if you come up short this round, you'll have more chances.
21:21:19 <jix> its online
21:21:20 <jix> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory
21:21:51 <jix> uh wait i forgot to write down my own statements first
21:22:22 <jix> well i wont look into the mails before i completed my list anyway.... it'll take out the fzn
21:23:14 <Razor-X> jix: I'm about to check the rules, but for reference, how many entries per person?
21:24:53 <RodgerTheGreat> the translation of that phrase is seriously fucked up.
21:25:11 <Razor-X> 面白い means cool, interesting, etc.
21:25:37 <Razor-X> But you use adjectives by themselves to express a feeling or emotion.
21:25:48 <Razor-X> わね is <female emphasis particle> <excited emphasis particle>
21:25:57 <oerjan> jix: it might just possibly be a good idea if you were to put your email address somewhere reachable from the Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory page
21:26:20 <jix> oerjan: uhm my email address is there
21:26:31 <jix> in the 2nd sentence
21:26:41 <jix> after the TOC
21:27:15 <jix> (i don't fear spam... i'll get a lot of it anyway)
21:29:34 <oerjan> sorry, looked at old version
21:29:39 <Razor-X> I really need to code binary functions for my calculator.
21:30:13 <Razor-X> Lot more because well.... the calculator has a processor too :P
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21:32:44 <jix> hmm we should put that in the topic i think
21:33:14 <jix> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory
21:33:22 -!- jix has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - competition: http://esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest - http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicate.
21:33:27 <jix> nargh too long
21:33:46 <jix> the competition is over now right?
21:34:33 -!- jix has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory.
21:42:16 <jix> i have 4 statements now... but i want to get at least 10
21:44:36 <jix> haha this lang will get ridiculous
21:47:21 <oerjan> it will with the two statements i just invented
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21:50:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I have a mix of mindlessly painful and genuinely useful commands.
21:50:59 <jix> Keymaker: check topic/ esolangs.org mainpage / http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory
21:51:06 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: same here
21:55:07 <Keymaker> i can think of painless and useless commands only :D
21:55:35 <jix> Keymaker: no problem, there will be enough of both
21:57:33 <Razor-X> Mmm... my handshaking process is complicated :(
21:57:36 * calamari is old :( going to my 10 year high school reunion tonight
21:57:43 <Razor-X> Shows how a project evolves.
21:58:15 <Keymaker> cheer up calamari, everyone gets older day by day
21:59:01 <Keymaker> :) btw, haven't read logs for a while, how is your ipod language?
21:59:06 <RodgerTheGreat> that's like saying "My best friend died." "That's OK, people die every day. you might die soon."
21:59:39 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: It's a common joke at our school.
21:59:41 <calamari> but I haven't been working on it as much since the main compilers project is getting intense
22:00:01 <Razor-X> ``You're gonna die, <varying degree expletive>'' ``I know.''
22:00:32 <Keymaker> before i hated compilers, nowadays i'm interested in making one
22:00:34 <calamari> I figured I should learn how to use flex/bison
22:00:57 <Razor-X> Writing parsers bugs me, but flex/bison is pretty convenint.
22:01:13 <calamari> doing semantic checking right now
22:01:45 <Razor-X> Hah. Lame pun. Writing parsers bugs me.
22:02:04 <calamari> writing parsers by hand is fun
22:02:28 <Razor-X> Writing a Plof parser is something else.
22:02:43 <Razor-X> GregorR will kill you both :P
22:03:07 <Razor-X> It's GregorR's non-esoteric attempt at a marriage between an imperative and functional language, while making it a P-language.
22:03:31 <calamari> if he comes around I have a nifty hat that will placate him
22:03:42 <Razor-X> Now only Keymaker will die.
22:04:45 <Razor-X> Python, Perl, PHP, and notably Ruby.
22:05:14 <calamari> imperative is the same as procedural, right ?
22:05:18 <Keymaker> so many new users here.. i can recognize only half the names, almost
22:05:29 <Razor-X> Keymaker: Only have of us talk :)
22:06:21 <Keymaker> i was reading logs a bit and too lazy to read them all, what is pikhq's basm?
22:06:56 <jix> a brainfuck 2 c converter written in brainfuck
22:07:01 <jix> does simple optimizations
22:07:20 <jix> is shorter than wib.b now and does more optimizations (optimizes >>> <<< +++ and ---)
22:07:43 <jix> Razor-X: got it!
22:07:59 <Razor-X> You can make it optimize arbitrary strings of the same operation.
22:09:06 <Keymaker> nice. was just going to ask if there's any limit for rows of same character
22:09:25 <Razor-X> No as in, you can possibly do it.
22:09:30 <Razor-X> I dunno if pikhq has implemented it.
22:09:51 <Razor-X> I can think of code to optimize it, kinda.
22:12:37 <jix> hah i have 9 statements allready
22:12:40 <jix> afk really now
22:15:48 -!- jix has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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22:37:47 * RodgerTheGreat begins staring at his clock, waiting for 22:20 GMT on the 23rd.
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23:09:18 <SimonRC> Historically, gcc 1.34 demonstrated just what "implementation-defined" really means in C.
23:09:24 <SimonRC> "GCC, upon finding a #pragma directive, would instead attempt to start Emacs running a simulation of the Towers of Hanoi."
23:09:37 <SimonRC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior
23:10:49 <Razor-X> That sounds very effecient.
23:11:27 <RodgerTheGreat> "This specifically frees the compiler to do whatever is easiest or most efficient, should such a program be entered."
23:33:53 <oerjan> i could not resist putting a similar implementation-defined into my latest statement.
23:35:56 <RodgerTheGreat> a few of my commands have interesting behavior when you feed them inappropriate input.
23:36:18 <GregorR> calamari: <calamari> if he comes around I have a nifty hat that will placate him
23:36:34 <Sgeo> RodgerTheGreat, hm?
23:36:35 <calamari> GregorR: yeah, next time you're in Arizona ;)
23:36:44 <Sgeo> And are there esolangs with undef behavior?
23:36:54 <GregorR> calamari: They have these magical things called "digital cameras" nowadays,
23:37:24 <calamari> GregorR: they also have this magical stuff called cash.. which you don't seem to have much of once you have kids ;)
23:37:48 <calamari> even so, I'm getting my wife a digital camera for christmas
23:37:57 <calamari> need to start shopping for one
23:39:44 <Sgeo> There should be an article for BFComp
23:41:20 <Keymaker> it's probably the only piece of esolang hardware along the physical whirl computer (made of cardboard)
23:41:30 <SimonRC> Did you know... PDP-11 bootloaders indicated different loading problems by doing infinite loops at various locations
23:43:52 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: your email went unread into my Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory mailbox
23:44:18 <jix> GregorR: are you going to participate too?
23:47:11 <Keymaker> was there some function for converting a number to a string of 8-bit bytes?
23:50:14 <RodgerTheGreat> keep in mind, guys, we will need *some* reasonably normal functions, operators, variable types and control structures if we want this language to be useable.
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