< 1156377639 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/ forever < 1156377652 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SF? < 1156377654 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SFW? < 1156377720 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not a cisco tech < 1156377737 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's safe < 1156378002 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivan`: Hahahah, brilliant XD < 1156379056 0 :macgeek-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :macgeek < 1156379517 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's pure math, and therefore untyped. < 1156379523 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said math was untyped? < 1156379599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1156379606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, clearly. < 1156379607 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the Hindley-Milner type system with multi-parameter typeclasses, myself :-P < 1156379612 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1156379612 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1156379647 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156379702 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, it's Haskell's type system :-) < 1156379924 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156379926 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is not precisely math. < 1156379952 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think what pikhq meant by 'pure math', in any case, is the usual math notation. < 1156379965 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156379986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed untyped < 1156380035 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1156380055 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it untyped, since "if 3, then 0, otherwise 5" doesn't really mean anything. < 1156380066 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not math notation, either. < 1156380076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "the notation you could expect to see in your Algebra textbook", which would be the usual mathematical notation. . . < 1156380076 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1156380109 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: The math notation for that would be a big curly brace with two expressions (0 and 5), with one saying "if 3" after it and the other saying "otherwise" < 1156380132 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "pi implies 2"? < 1156380178 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, okay. operations are typed. < 1156380247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's too much to consider taht a "run-time-error" < 1156380272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: by the way, algebra is not turing-complete < 1156380311 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean algebra doesn't allow first-class functions? < 1156380314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: very simple test: try making an algebraic statement that causes an infinite loop < 1156380328 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x < 1156380331 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find x. < 1156380348 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an infinite loop, that's just an invalid equation. < 1156380357 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = f(x) MIGHT be an infinite loop (recursion) < 1156380363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1156380374 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=x is neither an infinite loop nor an invalid equation < 1156380384 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a valid equation, but not a useful one :P < 1156380385 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly valid equation to which the answer is 'anything' < 1156380387 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x+1 < 1156380400 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: and the answer to that one is 'no solutions' < 1156380427 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have first-class functions obviously you have TC < 1156380437 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So algebra doesn't have those? < 1156380454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x)=f(x+1);f(-oo) < 1156380454 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1156380462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in pikhq's textbook probably doesn't :) < 1156380484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Calc, actually. . . < 1156380485 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: define negative infinity < 1156380498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: f(-oo) is not a valid expression < 1156380510 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but f(0) would work just as well < 1156380514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Negative infinity, in math, is a number. < 1156380526 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not usually, no. < 1156380528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like saying "define 3". < 1156380535 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 = 1 + 1 + 1 < 1156380554 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client" < 1156380560 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: negative infinite, in math, is not a number under most commonly used number systems. < 1156380571 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in particular, it's not an integer, and it's not a real. < 1156380571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo = 1 + 1 + .. + 1 < 1156380587 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: define "..", then. < 1156380595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Never said it was either an integer or a real number. Just said it was a number. < 1156380611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Replace with an infinite amount of "1 +". < 1156380631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: two bricks and a dead cat is also a number in some number system. < 1156380648 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: define an infinite amount. < 1156380651 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is having fun
< 1156380663 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: brick = 1, dead cat = i? < 1156380680 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: i've never seen bricks that were equal to 1. < 1156380687 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: bricks are usually bricks, not integers. < 1156380712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. Infinity is a number which is greater than any real number. < 1156380722 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there're many numbers like that. < 1156380726 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: all different. < 1156380728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negative infinity, therefore, is a number which is less than any real number. < 1156380741 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is negative infinity the highest such number? < 1156380770 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then we're getting somewhere. < 1156380771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: What? You can think of a finite number which is greater than any number in the set of real numbers? < 1156380788 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, but i can think of many different infinite ones < 1156380819 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, infinity, infinity+1, infinity+2... :) < 1156380826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is having more fun than ihope_
< 1156380833 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is ... not.
< 1156380862 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought we went through all this in detail when we were discussing Banana Scheem. < 1156380866 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme. < 1156380867 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also implies that negative infinity plus one is negative infinity or below, since negative infinity plus one is either higher than negative infinity, or not higher. < 1156380872 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: pikhq wasn't here ;) < 1156380875 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for a URL. < 1156380886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: actually i think -oo + 1 is -oo < 1156380904 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If negative infinity plus one is higher than negative infinity, it must either be a real number or something higher than a real number. < 1156380908 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... hmm. < 1156380915 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: it's like this: < 1156380931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo - 1 = oo < 1156380939 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + oo = oo < 1156380946 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo + 1 = (oo+1) < 1156380956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition isn't commutative with these guys... < 1156380965 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't? < 1156380972 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burbles
< 1156380974 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noup < 1156381010 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_arithmetic < 1156381029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: oo is 'omega' in that article < 1156381064 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And negative infinity? < 1156381085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordinals don't really have that < 1156381094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just take positive ones, and put a minus in front. < 1156381109 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1156381133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you could construct anything like reals from ordinals < 1156381143 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can from integers < 1156381162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why use oo when there's ∞? < 1156381189 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: These people don't know unicode *heheheh* < 1156381198 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them probably see ∞ as a box X-D < 1156381207 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see it as a-hat < 1156381219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like an abbreviation for "ass-hat". < 1156381226 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. asshat. < 1156381230 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ptsh. < 1156381244 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, make that "pch". < 1156381292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in the context of reals, infinity (oo, not omega) can indeed be a number < 1156381299 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're using the extended number line < 1156381311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately (fortunately?) nobody uses the extended number line < 1156381321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks some properties of the reals < 1156381363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't actually remember which ones
< 1156381470 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, can infinity be reduced to other terms? < 1156381481 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 1/0? < 1156381482 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1156381486 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1156381495 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just plain infinity? < 1156381513 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you define it as the limit of unbounded sequences < 1156381544 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be a limit? < 1156381547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually anyway < 1156381561 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how can you limit something that is unbounded? < 1156381584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an infinitely large limit, of course. :p < 1156381670 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_line < 1156381672 0 :oerjanj!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1156381734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice disclaimer, that "Note that this is not a judgment about their "reality" or lack of it". < 1156381756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably to avoid the "Stop discrimination of infinities! They're just as real as you and me!" people. < 1156381769 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish to take exception to the idea that noone uses the extended real line, as I have used it. < 1156381788 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: for shits and giggles? < 1156381821 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfectly nice compact Hausdorff space. < 1156381874 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that "perfectly nice" are not intended as technical terms, though somebody surely has invented them) < 1156381945 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see... < 1156381979 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]" < 1156381986 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably want to look at surreal numbers, which combine reals and ordinals < 1156382017 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although those i don't know if anyone uses < 1156382030 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are cool anyhow < 1156382098 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1156382114 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macgeek: nice language. Did you implement it? < 1156382138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156382211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The real numbers are the dependable breadwinner of the family, the complete ordered field we all rely on. The complex numbers are a slightly flashier but still respectable younger brother: not ordered, but algebraically complete. The quaternions, being noncommutative, are the eccentric cousin who is shunned at important family gatherings. But the octonions are the crazy old uncle nobody lets out of the attic: they are nonassociative." < 1156382275 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quaternions are useful in 3d math. < 1156382306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps not so in family gatherings. < 1156382323 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@67-21-19-37.clspco.adelphia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156382335 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, agreed. < 1156382344 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: you mean Plain? < 1156382349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1156382349 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created Plain < 1156382360 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some work though, I think < 1156382368 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, did you create an interpreter, or just a spec? < 1156382483 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1156382494 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gotten to the interpreter yet < 1156382505 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created an interpreter for TwoStep though < 1156382525 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156382528 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool. < 1156382536 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language did you code it in? < 1156382559 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALbasic < 1156382620 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"some other time" < 1156382646 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought of a place to get good Trigonometry and Logarithm information for the contest. < 1156382656 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if I can think of it, so can the contestants. < 1156382669 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RealBASIC is a pretty nice language- I'm trying to decide wether I want to experiment with it in rosetta. < 1156382691 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: if you say "wikipedia" as this source of information, I shall die laughing. < 1156382699 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1156382703 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, good. < 1156382705 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more specific than that. < 1156382711 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not MathWorld either. < 1156382731 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlanetSyntheticTrig.org? < 1156382744 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :P < 1156382748 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1156382750 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logarithm information too. < 1156382758 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1156382781 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that's for me to know and our contestants to never find out! < 1156382809 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always taunt them with it after the competition ends. < 1156382871 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first thing I ever coded in RealBASIC was a BF interpreter. < 1156382909 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I shall taunt them. < 1156382931 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nya nya! Good source of information! Nya nya! < 1156382966 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chuckles
< 1156383056 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, are you allowed to tell other committee members? < 1156383072 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156383076 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to The Place. < 1156383085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming... < 1156383665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your textbook? < 1156383679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##math? < 1156383712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156383714 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##quantum. < 1156383758 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does a sanity check
< 1156383777 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156383782 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, but you're perfectly sane, and only insane people are allowed in ##quantum. < 1156384044 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun pikhq. < 1156384073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets up Bombadil. . .
< 1156384094 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what category are you entering, pikhq ? < 1156384101 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr, task. < 1156384153 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :macgeek- < 1156384223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about the OISC. < 1156384322 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun then. < 1156384515 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finally burns his Linux disk
< 1156385205 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1156385369 0 :preyalone!n=preyalon@h-68-166-104-139.mclnva23.covad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156385629 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1156386322 0 :Anders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1156386325 0 :wooby!n=alan@ny-lancastercadent4g1-3a-236.buf.adelphia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156386345 0 :Anders!i=anders@unaffiliated/anders1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1156386410 0 :preyalone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156387633 0 :macgeek-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :macgeek < 1156387924 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1156388170 0 :macgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"t3h g0ne" < 1156391107 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1156391191 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-187.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1156391927 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault." < 1156391996 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, my buddies and I are trying to come up with a logo for our community website- would anyone care to stop by the concept gallery and vote your opinion? http://feesh.nonlogic.org/logocontest/gal.php < 1156392055 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all suck and your life is a failure. < 1156392056 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean hi. < 1156392072 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1156392107 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I voted on one :P < 1156392131 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool- you liked my latest design. :D < 1156392135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shall have your heart ripped out and eaten by the Aztecs. < 1156392140 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only one that has anything to do with logic :-P < 1156392144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "Hi", as well. < 1156392197 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being in this channel always makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside. < 1156392212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1156392219 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new language is defeating me :( < 1156392227 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1156392239 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hard to code in? < 1156392243 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1156392255 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstracting all scopes to anonymous functions is making it difficult to figure out a return syntax that works properly and doesn't suck. < 1156392288 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I can see that being difficult. < 1156392355 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought of some solutions, but all of them were either ugly or blackbox magic. < 1156392364 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156392379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get a "I dislike it" button for this logo thing? < 1156392390 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go ask. < 1156392532 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/147079 < 1156393792 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night, everyone. < 1156393815 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1156397549 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=thematri@222-152-161-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1156397582 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0"syug ih">:#,_@ < 1156397904 0 :tmey_java!n=tmey_jav@222-152-161-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1156397933 0 :tmey_java!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1156397933 0 :Arrogant!i=Scott@169.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156398231 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1156398282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1156398288 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=thematri@222-152-161-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1156398309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1156398483 0 :CXI!i=Sanity@dialup-162.88.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1156398793 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1156398961 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/ < 1156398971 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions? < 1156399221 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=thematri@222-152-161-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1156399222 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ploftastic. < 1156399230 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1156399231 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1156399252 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, doesn't seem like enough information to go by :D < 1156399264 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess that's true... < 1156399272 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it IS prototyping < 1156399273 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So <3 < 1156399273 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out how to flesh that out :-P < 1156399296 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ever seen Io? < 1156399303 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io is pretty. < 1156399314 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Plof is a hybrid between OO and functional. < 1156399361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And imperative. < 1156399369 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Io, there are no keywords < 1156399370 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Implied by OO :-P ) < 1156399379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've seen a /bit/ of Io. < 1156399387 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All flow control is defined as functions < 1156399398 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's true of Plof too. < 1156399400 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1156399402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few more keywords though ;) < 1156399403 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed < 1156399415 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repect that < 1156399426 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Io but I can see several problems with it < 1156399429 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof isn't intended to be estoeric. < 1156399439 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is Io :P < 1156399444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah XD < 1156399462 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://splattercoding.blogspot.com/ Here's some Io code and stuff. < 1156399484 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of these days I plan on making something similar to Io, but fixing the fundamental problems with it, and call it Isis. < 1156399495 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mixins in Plof: < 1156399503 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomeMixins = [ ... ]; < 1156399510 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A = [ ... ] + SomeMixins; < 1156399524 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combinators for objects < 1156399525 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1156399528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.type = array(ref SomeMixins, ref A); < 1156399557 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will you handle operator overloading? < 1156399561 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If at all < 1156399564 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure whether I will yet. < 1156399574 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I obviously can't overload + or =, I need those. < 1156399578 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1156399582 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit of a problem < 1156399589 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I can't overload +, it's ridiculous to overload -, /, *, +=, etc, etc. < 1156399595 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So overloading would end up worthless :( < 1156399605 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do /want/ to be able to use overloading. I just don't know how yet. < 1156399616 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec, logging in as GregorR-L < 1156399671 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156399678 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an article for this Plof stuff? < 1156399689 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/ < 1156399690 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incomplete < 1156399760 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a nice looking lang < 1156399803 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of Io's problems is that, while functions are 1st-class < 1156399809 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're also activatable < 1156399818 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that you constantly have to use getSlot("funcname") < 1156399829 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you end up setting off the function all over the place. < 1156400044 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so bad at writing specs :P < 1156400051 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it so well defined in my head. < 1156400125 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1156400195 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose anybody has any /specific/ points for me to look at? < 1156400203 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's too ill-defined on that page 8-D < 1156400626 0 :anonfunc!n=pimaniac@adsl-67-117-30-249.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156400656 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey look, it's an anonymous function! < 1156400762 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good example program >_> <_< < 1156400851 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1156400909 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANONFUNC hello() < 1156401441 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that HELLO __anonfunc() < 1156401683 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's hello(anonfunc); < 1156401737 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonfunc: hello is also accepted. < 1156401957 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who declares it as Private Sub hello() As AnonFunc will be shot < 1156402007 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello = (x as function) { println("Hello to " + x()); }; hello(anonfunc); < 1156402064 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who declares it as that will be awarded a cookie from GregorR < 1156402119 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any GregorR who does not give an award will be shot < 1156402700 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, somebody must have a good example program :-P < 1156402707 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something a bit more complicated than the traditional examples. < 1156402713 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not too difficult to implement :-P < 1156402725 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too difficult in a real language that is :P < 1156404148 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L, why not a r-d-parser < 1156404160 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1156404191 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156406399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1156406400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1156406402 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156407657 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao < 1156407660 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to get off < 1156407720 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Microsoft Fire Alarm: In Case Of Fire, Break Glass, Press Ctrl + Alt + Delete" < 1156410060 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference" < 1156410475 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1156414104 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156415429 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1156417009 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1156422214 0 :jix!i=jix@L6038.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1156425660 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@c-68-41-14-137.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156425685 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1156425700 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156426285 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1156427817 0 :ivan`_!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1156428203 0 :ivan`_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" < 1156428620 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1156428834 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1156431124 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-e33fe155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1156434306 0 :jix!i=jix@L6038.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1156434843 0 :kipple_!n=kipple@203.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156434856 0 :kipple!n=kipple@203.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156435618 0 :GregorR-W!n=chatzill@jffwprtest.jf.intel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156443159 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I missed you last night. Yeah, can you make the tutorial? < 1156443243 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I'll see what I can do. < 1156443262 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now, I managed to recover my sourcecode and type it up. If you give us a moment... < 1156443289 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it doen in? < 1156443290 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*done < 1156443298 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-83 BASIC. < 1156443305 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha...... < 1156443308 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the version I made for my calculator. < 1156443317 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pain to code on. < 1156443320 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO. < 1156443347 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn TI-83 ASM and code a Unlambda compiler. < 1156443351 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1156443356 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty limited (one neuron, two inputs), and basically only good for being trained to simulate logic gates, but it's a useful example. < 1156443359 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.shadowarts.org/files/NeuroGen.txt < 1156443402 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't mind TI-BASIC- I'm pretty comfortable with BASIC variants in general. < 1156443426 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally, "->" represents the store arrow. < 1156443436 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is pretty straightforward. < 1156443440 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that the language is a pain, I mean it's a pain to code it into the calculator with that horrible keypad :D. < 1156443459 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I memorized the menus, so I'm pretty fast now. ;D < 1156443479 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands are mostly just two-key sequences. < 1156443495 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a horrible IDE :P < 1156443509 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1156443537 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make a neural net my first Scheme project. < 1156443551 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, the 83+ offers a lot of really nice variable types. < 1156443568 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this app is more of a single neuron than an actual "net". < 1156443598 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing I've coded on it (had the patience for, I mean) is a coin flipped (because I use coin flips a lot to make decisions and hate losing coins) and a dice roller to play D&D on the go. < 1156443607 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coin flipper < 1156443619 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play D&D? what edition(s)? < 1156443635 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3E and I play GURPS. I highly prefer GURPS. < 1156443653 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, GURPS is just a *d6 < 1156443666 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gurps is pretty cool- I like the "atomic horror" supplement. < 1156443674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of "Rifts"? < 1156443690 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play GURPS with actual supplements. It's generally the DM's job. < 1156443705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-BASIC (at least in '86) would be few magnitudes more usable if it had any sort of local variables. < 1156443724 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of trying out a GURPS game in a WWI setting where every character is in a different European country (like Diplomacy). < 1156443766 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly DM, so I have a closet full of game books. Ironically, I tend to play pretty "fast and loose", so I've been known to come to a game with just a few sheets of notes and a D20. :) < 1156443779 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notes? Bah, who needs notes? :P < 1156443801 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays with just the bad random number generator built into his head.
< 1156443806 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DM's need notes. I don't like memorizing dungeon layouts. < 1156443826 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play GregorR-W's way. < 1156443853 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like playing diceless modifications. Someone should make an actual diceless TRPG ruleset. < 1156443872 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called "go" < 1156443885 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go is a TRPG? < 1156443887 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a physical D20 is primarily for the player's psychological benefit- it makes them feel like I'm bound by rules of probability, rather than having godlike power over the game. < 1156443947 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GURPS really uses dice well, but D20 systems (IMO) completely overuse dice. < 1156443956 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1156443969 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that. < 1156444069 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from combat, traps, poisons, etc. I rarely use dice. < 1156444082 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play diceless! < 1156444092 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes players feel more in control. < 1156444099 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because they do have more control.) < 1156444101 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my players know not to bother getting ranks in social skills, because I always make them roleplay bluff checks. < 1156444102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "diceless TRPG ruleset" => "dickless TRPG ruleset". < 1156444104 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play clothesless! < 1156444105 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on your diceless system, of course. < 1156444136 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. naked RPG's. "No barriers between you and your character". lol < 1156444142 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a TRPG? how is it different from an RPG? < 1156444150 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your skin doesen't count as a barrier? < 1156444154 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabletop RPG. < 1156444160 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1156444166 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In contrast with a CPRG, a Computer RPG. < 1156444170 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CRPG < 1156444190 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most "RPG's" I've played on the computer are insanely tedious. < 1156444205 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger for the SNES was pretty awesome. < 1156444238 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played WoW a bit, and it was fun, but not like a real (read: tabletop) RPG < 1156444242 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF6j, Chrono Trigger, Vagrant Story (stretching the RPG definition), and Tales of Symphonia are the best I've played. < 1156444243 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, Diablo for example doesn't do anything for me. < 1156444260 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diablo is a great LAN-game-in-5-minutes game. < 1156444277 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see it being fun in multiplayer, I guess. < 1156444292 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't stand MMORPGs. < 1156444304 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even neverwinter nights gets really boring to me after a while, though- it's pretty much all about combat and leveling up. < 1156444311 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me about it. < 1156444317 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most MMO < 1156444327 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s are about one thing: leveling. < 1156444331 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the entire game. < 1156444344 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher level > lower level in EVERY DAMN WAY. < 1156444346 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same can be said about regular D&D though < 1156444347 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMOs just reward the amount of time you put into it. Most of them are horribly boring in the first 10 levels. < 1156444363 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your GM. < 1156444364 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way to be good is playing insane amounts- yeah. < 1156444390 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but MMOs also depend on how you play it < 1156444391 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: it really depends on how your group plays. < 1156444400 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1156444427 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't found any MMO that can be fun *without* at least an initial investiture of 40 hours+. < 1156444429 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: less so. computer RPG's are significantly more "directed" and "specific goal oriented" than tabletops. < 1156444444 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh. that would kill me. < 1156444471 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WoW was a lot of fun the first 40 hours. it doesn't get more fun the more you play (in my opinion at least) < 1156444503 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do the same thing anyway < 1156444507 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That and you also need people in the game. < 1156444530 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't find a guild/group, you're going to have no fun until a moderately high level. < 1156444564 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enjoys playing games solo or as a pair more than in a big group.
< 1156444567 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has thought about implementing a WoW BF interpreter
< 1156444581 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea of the ultimate MMO would be something like Garry'sMod. < 1156444585 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD's are my favorite. < 1156444596 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD's are better, because they're free. < 1156444609 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they leave more to the imagination. < 1156444618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack dammit < 1156444619 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a lot more free-form too, and most of them allow having fun at any level and any time dedication. < 1156444625 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can play using a terminal app on my palm. :) < 1156444656 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MUD's that focus too much on combat tend to have the same problem as normal MMO's, though. < 1156444664 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rogue > nethacl < 1156444668 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nethack < 1156444778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1156444830 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kippleDoesn't WoW use Lua? < 1156444834 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1156444836 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: ... < 1156444852 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think so < 1156444865 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then doing a BF interpreter in it would probably be fairly trivial ;) < 1156444867 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't really looked into it thoug < 1156444870 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would < 1156444943 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest task would be to read the WoW API :) < 1156445068 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, since I have lots of way more interesting esoteric projects on hold too, it will never happen < 1156445110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow sounds kinda neat, but certainly not neat enough to pay for it. < 1156445507 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Graduale_Aboense_2.jpg < 1156445508 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty < 1156445544 0 :smokecfh!n=user@53549344.cable.casema.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1156446148 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" < 1156446150 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Haskell
< 1156446342 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries learning haskell, for the 238947th time
< 1156447090 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know Haskell?!!!111///!!! < 1156447109 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know haskell. < 1156447129 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why are you trying to learn it again? < 1156447152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1156447165 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright.... < 1156449571 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, never saw this before: < 1156449573 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://halogen.note.amherst.edu/%7Ejdtang/scheme_in_48/tutorial/overview.html < 1156450250 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-38-139.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156450308 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1156450789 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-38-139.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156450942 0 :smokecfh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156452247 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156453925 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-38-139.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156454234 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h124.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156454364 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: I have something for you! < 1156454366 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.shadowarts.org/files/NeuralTut.zip < 1156454402 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse-engineered as well as I could from my old TI-83+ listing. Hopefully, this will do what you need. < 1156454416 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, I added a cool illustration. ^_^ < 1156454603 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe. < 1156454613 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1156454616 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a bit of material, and it seems like a lot of work :P < 1156454634 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very very simple if you use single-layer nets. < 1156454684 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't you have to make the thing retrain itself? < 1156454697 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make a great recursive function. < 1156454711 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when neurons only have to train themselves, it's easy as illustrated in my tut. < 1156454726 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just calculate your error and tweak your weights. < 1156454753 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets complicated when neurons also have to train the neurons that forward information to them. < 1156454780 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-layer nets are more limited, BUT you can do OCR with them. < 1156454795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is cool enough to be worthwhile, BTW. < 1156454806 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the simplest way to do OCR in existence. < 1156454831 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aside from extensive lookup tables, I guess) < 1156454844 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say "simplest non-brute force way" < 1156454947 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why is a neural net difficult in a Esolang? < 1156454970 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's hard to tell people what you expect them to do without literally handing them an algoritm. < 1156454977 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was hard to implement. < 1156454990 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the training algorithm? < 1156454997 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't looked too deeply into it just yet.) < 1156455004 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1156455026 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much every neural net system works the same, aside from the training algorithm. < 1156455066 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation is always just the sum of inputs multiplied by their respective weights compared against a threshold to result in a boolean value. < 1156455090 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much like how triggering works in an actual neuron (hence the name) < 1156455401 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I saw showed the correlation between graphing and the Neural Net equation. < 1156455415 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty nifty, in fact. < 1156455436 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily emulate a computer with a Neural Net the moment you can make a NAND gate with it. < 1156455479 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would've been nifty seeing an OISC implemented in Neural Net fashion. < 1156455572 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could manually build one. < 1156455614 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR, you could build a simulator powerful enough to try to teach the net to function that way (extremely hard) < 1156455631 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just simulating a net is easy, training it can be hard. < 1156455646 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the general rule, and why nets seem promising. < 1156455783 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-made neural nets could themselves qualify as an esolang. < 1156455785 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1156455787 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1156455885 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that be difficult? < 1156455916 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we're only working with binary here, training should be dead simple. < 1156456145 0 :Arrogant!i=Scott@133.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156457147 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're oversimplifying this- OUTPUT is binary, but input, weighting, and evaluation should all be as close to analog as possible (floats). They can pretend to be some kinds of gates, but neurons != logic gates. < 1156457161 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input is binary too. < 1156457169 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect. < 1156457172 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156457179 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? Then how can it be a logic gate? < 1156457199 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input *can be* binary, but could really be anything. < 1156457205 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's NOT a logic gate. < 1156457220 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I see what you mean. < 1156457243 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming that the edges previous to this have been already trained to make sure that it's only binary. < 1156457266 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you assume that, then the training becomes a lot easier. < 1156457292 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/index.php?title=IfFormat < Takin' votes :P < 1156457350 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!whoset paste < 1156457354 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1156457355 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in a normal electrical circuit, you can hook up different inputs to something that only takes 0 and 1 and the result will come out undefined. < 1156457360 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm ... wrong chan X_X < 1156457366 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For !whoset on) < 1156457430 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people assume that the ``ultimate input'' of a microprocessor (being some code in some sort of ROM) is known to be 0 and 1, and doesen't produce any undefined effects. < 1156457566 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or you're supposed to design the FSM such that even given unknown input it should maintain a set of defined states.) < 1156457605 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W's on other servers. < 1156457630 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on other tasks entirely. < 1156457638 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gasp* < 1156457641 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your ``life''. < 1156457649 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- W does not stand for "Write" < 1156457660 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stands for War. We all know that. < 1156457685 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no it stands for 'Wacko' < 1156457751 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think it stands for Wacation < 1156457765 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily, being OISC, the FSM will be relatively small. < 1156457765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we know when GregorR-W is not at work. < 1156457784 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fiend. Making us believe he's doing something useful. < 1156457853 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say we tell Intel that he uses AMD at home! < 1156457868 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My boss uses a PPC Mac. < 1156457875 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1156457888 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just shows how badly the corporate machine works in America. < 1156458058 0 :kipple__!n=kipple@203.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156458078 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: Uggh. You're going to make people type out ``function'' and ``reference'' and ``string'' ? < 1156458081 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fiend. < 1156458091 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the general case. < 1156458093 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only for casting. < 1156458098 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then. < 1156458111 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd prefer "func", "ref", and .... "str"? < 1156458116 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1156458124 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1156458126 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not func < 1156458134 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think we call it ``sin'' and not ``sine'' ? < 1156458135 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f, r and s < 1156458144 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: Because using math is a "sin" < 1156458149 0 :kipple__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about symbols like !, @ and $ ? < 1156458167 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple__: How about this isn't Perl and never will be (thankfully) < 1156458173 0 :kipple__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1156458180 0 :kipple__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't really serious though < 1156458189 0 :kipple__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think long names are ok < 1156458198 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1156458211 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, taking a second vote :P < 1156458219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name them in russian < 1156458225 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto. < 1156458228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktsiya, ssilka & stroka < 1156458266 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/index.php?title=LongWords < 1156458292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr! < 1156458312 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``reference''. < 1156458316 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agh, that's a pain to type. < 1156458331 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Arr? < 1156458334 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arr! < 1156458334 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of the poor QWERTY users, Gregor. The poor QWERTY users. < 1156458342 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1156458345 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you're a wimpy typist < 1156458356 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm taking a vote. < 1156458362 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALRIGHT. < 1156458363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck uses qwerty anyways? < 1156458364 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who prefers short words? < 1156458372 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me! < 1156458384 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1156458385 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Nobody, of course < 1156458386 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: it already has 'var' and not 'variable' < 1156458388 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME! < 1156458395 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yeah, I noted that inconsistency >_> < 1156458397 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: Depends. "arr" is stupid. < 1156458416 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, who prefers long words (perhaps except "arr")? < 1156458420 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's name ``references'' to ``arr''. < 1156458436 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what I think of when I think of pointers and references. < 1156458457 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X, not his fault you've got crossed wires < 1156458460 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys are so helpful :P < 1156458464 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W, I prefer short words < 1156458466 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except "arr" < 1156458468 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1156458471 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because array is plenty short. < 1156458471 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 vs. 0! < 1156458476 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr!!! < 1156458482 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 2-vs-0 it looks like. < 1156458484 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arr looks stupid. < 1156458488 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaargh! < 1156458496 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'll be at int float str obj func array ref global next var < 1156458502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun!!! < 1156458509 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why fun instead of func? < 1156458518 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1156458520 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because functions are fun? < 1156458539 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1156458542 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func is better < 1156458549 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156458552 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Func is less ambiguous. < 1156458566 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say ``Func''. < 1156458576 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Func is funky. < 1156458580 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, music groupies who like the languages can use it as a synonym with ``Funk''. < 1156458587 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1156458596 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Something for everyone. < 1156458601 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W, so no literal arrays? < 1156458622 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrogant: Not at the moment, I may add a syntax for it but I'm sort of out ot symbols XD < 1156458642 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "array" function just generates an array from its parameters, so it's functionally similar. < 1156458644 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1156458659 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, depends on how often you're going to be creating an array < 1156458668 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, bringing that up, why array over list? < 1156458693 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to add in an FFI later? < 1156458699 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I was thinking about the internal representation ... < 1156458734 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: It's pretty much a necessity ... < 1156458737 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this going to be completely compatible with C, like D? < 1156458748 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, hardly < 1156458761 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even possible. < 1156458772 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1156458773 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1156458780 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"äÏ Ó×ÉÄÁÎÉÑ ×ÓÅÍ!" < 1156458782 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port ncurses! Port ncurses! < 1156458789 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's go one step at a time. < 1156458794 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156458801 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of using Parrot. < 1156458803 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm lazy. < 1156458807 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1156458825 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>? < 1156458828 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the Parrot intermediary language? < 1156458857 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like assembly, but a bit more ... Idonno, suitable for dynamic typing and other funky features like that. < 1156458859 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful. < 1156458866 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1156458875 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Arrogant's summary better. < 1156458876 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to wait a long time before it becomes anything resembling useful. < 1156458896 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that's unfortunately probably true >_> < 1156458908 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alternative is fairly bleak in terms of speed. < 1156458926 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's Neko < 1156458981 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I believe is pretty fast < 1156458996 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I only say that because that's what the _site_ says) < 1156459017 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at Neko.
< 1156459024 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the types map perfectly O_O < 1156459034 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was just thinking that < 1156459088 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neko seems awfully high-level to use as an intermediate language ... < 1156459102 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: your language must not be terribly original :) < 1156459104 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a JIT compiler. < 1156459104 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156459134 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's not Esoteric. < 1156459138 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: OMG, it has some of the same basic types as EVERY DYNAMICALLY TYPED LANGUAGE EVER < 1156459163 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people have an infatuation with the Japanese word for cat? -_-'' < 1156459172 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: Lisp too? < 1156459191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: that's not true. < 1156459194 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: it doesn't. < 1156459207 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X, people have an infatuation with the Japanese everything < 1156459214 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK people, exaggeration for the sake of emphasis. < 1156459217 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty sick. < 1156459224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: because they're idiots. < 1156459238 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neko's good and all IN JAPANESE. < 1156459270 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X, the creator of Neko is German I think < 1156459272 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. < 1156459282 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? Is it a German word? < 1156459282 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not American, like most japfags < 1156459307 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X is a japfag and she's not american. < 1156459317 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1156459323 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X, taken from the CAT icon, I doubt it < 1156459333 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if its not the same cat) < 1156459344 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"japfag" ... slightly less, erm, dignified term for "rice queen"? :P < 1156459348 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also an Espfag. < 1156459357 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto, not Espanol. < 1156459387 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W, more like, fanboy/fangirl for all things japanese, "otaku" < 1156459390 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know French, for school and all. < 1156459393 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kato"? < 1156459398 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156459430 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estas mia kato! Mi amas mian kato! En tutan tempon, mi volas ke mi ekzistas apud mian katon! < 1156459466 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds ugly :) < 1156459473 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esta mi gato :( < 1156459473 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"en tutan tempon" < 1156459485 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1156459485 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eu amo meu gato < 1156459508 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to emulate a conversation with lament: < 1156459514 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Anything at all) < 1156459524 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's stupid/ugly/uninteresting/poorly done. < 1156459534 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arr! < 1156459538 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quero ser ao lado de meu gato por toda minha vida < 1156459540 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1156459545 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or sometihng) < 1156459553 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: well, it's true < 1156459564 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if you want it done right, do it yourself < 1156459566 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can't deny it XD < 1156459569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: i don't say that about things that are clever, beautiful, interesting and well done < 1156459580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example i don't diss Haskell :) < 1156459584 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1156459592 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eek, Haskell < 1156459595 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1156459597 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know only enough French to translate Wikipedia articles to English, Esperanto, and Japanese though, not that I'm too sad. < 1156459634 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that all? < 1156459637 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's French. < 1156459651 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I can understand the French, I can translate it into any language. < 1156459671 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate into toki pona. < 1156459677 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn that some day. < 1156459683 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know the following español: ¡USTÉD ES EN LA EEUU! ¡HABLE INGLÉS! < 1156459709 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a lot of Spanish because it's spoken very often around here. < 1156459714 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, got a bit excited with the accent, take it off the É :P < 1156459780 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this odd local rap song about gasoline that's all the rage. < 1156459809 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasoline is: Smelly, not very cost effective, keeping us in a previous age. Nothing to write a rap song about. < 1156459825 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's written in Spanish too :P < 1156459854 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now back to NekoVM. < 1156460074 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anything even been written for NekoVM? < 1156460110 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the Neko compiler :P < 1156460123 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probabyl some weird anime thing. < 1156460124 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a language called Haxe < 1156460131 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some weird capitalizations < 1156460135 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which compiles to Neko < 1156460162 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And note that I didn't suggest Neko, I merely brought it up as possibly more practical than Parrot < 1156460196 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Parrot very slow? < 1156460210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the z-machine < 1156460210 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: Only the development. < 1156460214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't work with files < 1156460217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's so awesome < 1156460231 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parrot is fast < 1156460237 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's also not working < 1156460251 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least, in several places) < 1156460260 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there two intermediary languages, the Parrot ASM and the intermediary language? < 1156460266 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156460276 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIL compiles to PASM < 1156460278 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIL->PASM->Parrot bytecode < 1156460280 0 :lindi-_!n=lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1156460282 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which compiles to Parrot bytecode < 1156460284 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What he said. < 1156460289 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1156460292 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of ridiculous, really. < 1156460293 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is PIL all that awful? < 1156460300 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z-machine!!! < 1156460312 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ...no. < 1156460336 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File I/O, integration into the host system, there are a plethora of reasons NOT to use z-machine. < 1156460359 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X, it's not very feature complete < 1156460373 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so we end up going straight to PASM? < 1156460402 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PASM ought to be feature-complete enough as a target platform *shrugs* < 1156460405 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well compiling c code includes a lot of intermediate steps too... < 1156460407 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know though. < 1156460425 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Usu C->ASM->relocatable object file(s)->executable < 1156460427 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C code is a project how many years old? < 1156460435 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: no < 1156460445 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing some steps.... < 1156460446 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a preprocessor there ... < 1156460459 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well c uses 2 different tree representations... < 1156460461 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C->preprocessed C->Intermediate language->ASM-> < 1156460465 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb- I'm going wireless. (Gotta pack up my hub) < 1156460471 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc < 1156460471 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gcc < 1156460481 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156460483 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses /two/? < 1156460486 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156460493 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows nothing about gcc internals.
< 1156460498 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: yes.... one is a stricter version of the first IIRC < 1156460512 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is more c like the 2nd one more asm like < 1156460514 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...weird. < 1156460518 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are optimizations at each stage... < 1156460524 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes sense probably... < 1156460525 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Parrot was based around GCC? < 1156460546 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@c-68-41-14-137.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156460547 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if PIL is featureful enough, you don't need PASM. < 1156460562 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1156460565 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, PIL is compiled to PASM. < 1156460574 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you do /need/ PASM, you just don't need to see it. < 1156460578 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you don't directly need to work with PASM. < 1156460584 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1156460598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs Bombadil. . .
< 1156460618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: just compile it to Python. < 1156460634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: you can probably do it with sed :) < 1156460653 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to think that this language is not fundamentally different from other languages. In this belief, you are incorrect. < 1156460668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i looked at the specs page < 1156460676 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing there to show otherwise < 1156460677 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's incomplete, to say the least :P < 1156460699 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm workin' on it ... not good at specs X_X < 1156460709 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are you gonna add, that's fundamentally different from other languages? :) < 1156460725 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for one, the object orientation I've already added is fundamentally different. < 1156460777 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, the scope, how scopes are built, and how scopes are passed in function pointers. < 1156460785 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s/function pointers/functions/ < 1156460800 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your description, the object model seems to be much like javascript's < 1156460892 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scope passing seems interesting < 1156460894 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmm ... there are similarities. That may be the closest, but it's not really the same. < 1156460917 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of anything that has that < 1156460944 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you can do it in python very easily) < 1156461020 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGLOLIHASIT! < 1156461032 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1156462977 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll learn Scheme and then simulate an adder circuit with a neural net written in Scheme. < 1156463008 0 :kipple__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156463076 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1156463084 0 :Razor-X!n=user@user-11fa5b3.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156463287 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can just use /clear, Razor-X. < 1156463582 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric