< 1156032635 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1156032641 0 :Razor-X!n=user@user-11fa5b3.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156033075 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGJAPANESE < 1156033104 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Crazy i'nt it? < 1156034320 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Snakes < 1156034829 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL?! < 1156034852 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: there was a discussion 'bout that movie on #codegolf < 1156034859 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in this moment < 1156034873 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PASTE THE LINK < 1156034876 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO < 1156034896 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT < 1156034897 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT < 1156034901 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1156034905 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1156034914 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?! i posted the link just because you told me OMG!? < 1156034920 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1156034974 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np: The Sounds - Hope Your're Happy Now [ Living in America ] < 1156035248 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1156035685 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only heard about the movie recently. Sorry, I'm not much into pop culture. < 1156035694 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could only think about bestialities when I heard the name. < 1156035903 0 :oerjanj!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1156035942 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*beastialities even. < 1156036047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had a crazy idea. . . < 1156036064 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is listening < 1156036068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine a programming language which operates on a Rubik's cube. < 1156036100 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm... group theory < 1156036112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has nothing fleshed out; just a random, odd idea < 1156036167 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a bit small for a memory... < 1156036169 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. as in using the cube as memory or what? < 1156036181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just idle thought. < 1156036188 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. you'd want something larger, unless you had something like a stack in addition. < 1156036195 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps as pointer to memory < 1156036204 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would still be finite then. < 1156036223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make the memory a *set* of Rubik's cubes. < 1156036225 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could perhaps use the cube as your working register(s), with memory and program space seperate. < 1156036251 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a RC state would be your basic data type < 1156036267 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean you have to line up the cubes right to access the memory? < 1156036276 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map a word of memory to each face, and then perform calculations with rotation instructions. < 1156036285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . And no, I'm not wanting to flesh this out any further. < 1156036291 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156036297 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like your average 3D language to me. < 1156036358 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many options for such a language < 1156036365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memory would be composed of Rubik's cubes. . . All operations on it would be "rotate face foo". . . < 1156036382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is fleshing this out even though he doesn't want to. . . GAH! < 1156036397 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no escape < 1156036413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go in here working on an Esolang once, and I'm *stuck*. < 1156036415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1156036416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1156036438 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be simple to make a BF clone based on this idea < 1156036445 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1156036457 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! < 1156036477 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows to the majority < 1156036484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how addition could be expressed in terms of rotating a cube. . . < 1156036488 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screaming majority < 1156036502 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1156036504 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be group multiplication < 1156036547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1156036557 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: rubics cube rules... but i'm slow at solving them was like 4 minutes or something < 1156036580 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that there is a pattern of rotations that takes more than a thousand repeats to return to the initial state, that would < 1156036595 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give you increments modulo a somewhat large number < 1156036596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I can't remember how to solve the last layer (that's what brought me to this evil idea). < 1156036609 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: depends on which method you choose < 1156036611 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically turn one face, then the whole cube < 1156036630 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sometimes did this when bored < 1156036872 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember there was a trick using commutators: do rotation 1, then rotation 2, then reverse rotation 1, then reverse rotation 2 < 1156036919 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: you do that to rotate edges on the last layer (if you use the algorithm i use) < 1156036922 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other fun thing would be to use the cube for I/O, somehow. < 1156036927 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where each rotation can be a more complicated operation < 1156036959 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about that is that anything not touched by both rotations will not be moved by the combination < 1156036997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Yes! Make I/O just a special cube in the memory! < 1156036998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1156037047 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me think of C-intercal's turing tape I/O < 1156037081 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have to know everything that was previously inputed/outputted < 1156037113 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to know the right thing to put next < 1156037170 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except this RC version would be more difficult since you can't reach every state with just one operation < 1156037188 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operation=rotation in this case < 1156037234 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the final state of the cube would be the entire output? but then it would be bounded in size < 1156037234 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we should allow the program to base it's actions on the contents of each cube. < 1156037271 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a programmer requires a specific orientation, they'll have to "solve" the cube first. < 1156037291 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would lend itself toward allowing the creation of libraries. < 1156037307 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, this could be _worse_ than malbolge... < 1156037335 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#library_setstate_complete[green]; < 1156037340 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1156037350 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... an esolang that functions like a rubix cube... < 1156037353 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1156037357 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be as bad as malbolge if you can build libraries. < 1156037384 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge is a pain in the ass because it's almost impossible to reuse code in other programs. < 1156037403 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention that memory is pretty limited. < 1156037420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of making the only esoteric part of this being the Rubik's cube part. < 1156037432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION figures out how a programming language could work like brainfuck-style but with a rubix-cube like interface. < 1156037460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1156037461 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION warns CakeProphet of Razor-X's hatred for BF-clones < 1156037467 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically you would have RC states instead of ints as the basic data type? < 1156037475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: Yeah. < 1156037491 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit.... you got the idea before me. < 1156037493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . I think. < 1156037498 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know we were already talking about this... < 1156037498 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a good way to map the faces of the cube to numbers. < 1156037516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1156037528 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coordinates. < 1156037537 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a 9-digit, base-6 variable type. < 1156037540 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you you can get numbers up to about 1500 with a combination of two rotations, < 1156037541 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One for a surface... and one for the individual squares. < 1156037549 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156037562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm indeed. < 1156037567 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm tuples < 1156037625 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood" < 1156037640 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... it would be difficult to keep track of what numbers are were.... would the numbers "move" with the rotations... or would they stay in place? < 1156037646 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing Tape IO is a PAIN. < 1156037680 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :razor-X: you trying to program INTERCAL? < 1156037697 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: I almost got a BF interpreter done. < 1156037708 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to borrow parts from my Unlambda interpreter < 1156037712 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... < 1156037725 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surface, square) < 1156037725 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I like my idea- ignore the actual rotations for values, just say each face is a variable, each cube represents a digit 0-5 (based on color). < 1156037752 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was easy, and is essentially similar to most languages A) Test for input B) Modify state based on input. < 1156037792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotating is just how you set values to that variable. < 1156037820 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1156037839 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and preform math, in a vaguely Malbolge/INTERCAL style. < 1156037851 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be mindboggling to code with... and I can't imagine anything working on it but... eh. < 1156037864 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's doable. < 1156037871 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what would be the connection to rubik's cube, other than the names of the commands? < 1156037873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sitting here with my cube, figuring out arithmetic with it. < 1156037909 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it'd be easy to make with like an associative array or something. < 1156037921 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the instruction set, it could be as bad as DIS, or as easy as LISP with only primitive operators. < 1156038077 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Face(1).center = Green then Face(2).rotateCW ? < 1156038185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, arithmetic is going to be rather tricky. . . < 1156038191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not impossible, just tricky. < 1156038206 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to implement a new number system... < 1156038217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like... a 7 digit number system... or something... < 1156038243 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 < 1156038253 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... not 17 < 1156038255 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :septimal isn't new... < 1156038256 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 < 1156038264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts. < 1156038268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts < 1156038277 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... 3-digit number system? < 1156038281 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you'd want pretty complex loop constructs to accomplish anything/ < 1156038291 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Trinary, you mean? < 1156038294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1156038297 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Malbolge. < 1156038303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1156038314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... a 42-digit number system ^_^ < 1156038355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: We're doing complex conditionals, along with a macro feature in the compiler/interpreter. < 1156038359 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H2G2-nary. :D < 1156038374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not *that* cruel. :p < 1156038377 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sounds awesome. < 1156038415 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156038416 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... wouldn't having a boolean datatype be cheating? < 1156038435 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... possible to cheat? < 1156038445 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... what's the test we're easing ourself out of? :D < 1156038479 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can do recursive function calls and returns and conditional evaluation, you get implicit temporary storage for free, so you could certainly synthesize math. < 1156038619 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe there shouldn't be just six colors for each face... < 1156038628 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, god. < 1156038639 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe each color should be an entire Rubik's cube < 1156038673 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, infinite recursion might give some trouble... < 1156038676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet jesus. fractal rubiks cubes. < 1156038678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macros, not functions. < 1156038701 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if macros can contain macros, you're set. :D < 1156038723 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if the macros are evaluated at compilation time... < 1156038757 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1156038758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking "evaluatable via sed" kind of macros. < 1156038764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not terribly complex. < 1156038768 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to limit their power... < 1156038824 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like this is way out of league... probably because it is. < 1156038834 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the complexity doesn't so much enter into it as the question of whether the program can start running before every macro is expanded < 1156038874 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can, then recursive macros aren't so hard... < 1156038882 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm. tail recursion. < 1156038908 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need conditional expansion of macros though if you want your program to ever end < 1156038932 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a "Halt" instruction. < 1156038972 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need it if you want to ever end a macro to continue with something else < 1156039013 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Come From would be sufficient < 1156039029 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't nesting the macro call in a conditional take care of the infinite recursion "problem"? < 1156039040 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wouldn't suggest something as trivial as Go To < 1156039043 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah... True and False are old... I want new forms of truth.. < 1156039071 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troolean operators. True vs. False vs. Maybe < 1156039077 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could set how "deep" the cubes go at the very beginning... with some sort of global variable. < 1156039085 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 "layers"... if that makes any sense. < 1156039093 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I follow. < 1156039099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills CakeProphet < 1156039102 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was sort of thinking you could assign values to each face < 1156039135 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building linked lists and the like... < 1156039173 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursions = 5 cube-within-cube-within-cube-within-cube-within-cube < 1156039183 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1156039186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1156039199 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you limit recursions then you make memory finite < 1156039209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... even more mindboggling than the original idea. < 1156039216 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad for turing-completeness < 1156039270 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.... how could you have infinite recursions? I mean... how can the program work with an infinite number of "cubes". < 1156039280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. programmer... not program. < 1156039297 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe have six colors as base values and every other value a cube of other values < 1156039356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe just have it be a real-life Rubik's cube, instead of cubes with an infinite amount of colors on it? < 1156039361 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be too simple to program with < 1156039378 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still has no idea how the coding would work... he's still trying to conceptualize what allows you to code with rubix cubes. < 1156039397 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last comment was not to pikhq but to myself < 1156039400 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft... but an infinite fractal cube sounds way more mindboggling. < 1156039416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not a Rubik's cube. < 1156039431 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rubix fractal cube ^_^ < 1156039433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate(R); < 1156039444 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have the same rotations, even if not the same colors < 1156039502 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... how would the code operate? I'm seriously stumbed on even that part? What allows addition, or even variable assigment to occur? < 1156039508 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just two levels of values then: 6 colors and the cubes with colors < 1156039533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(1,2,3 = 6)(rotate(L);)(rotate(F);) < 1156039552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Pick up a Rubik's cube. Have fun. < 1156039554 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment would be by reference, i assume, it's really just a pointer < 1156039580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(3,2,1 = 1)(cube++;)(cube--;) < 1156039588 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still... don't get it... :D < 1156039591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is giving you example code. . . < 1156039599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bit... uh... dense when it comes to stuff like this. < 1156039613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you have a simple Rubik's cube. < 1156039647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You assign white=0, red=1, blue=2, orange=3, green=4, and yellow=5. < 1156039673 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose in the simple case you might not have assignment at all, but rather a reversible language of conditional rotations (or nearly reversible) < 1156039721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have rotations, conditional rotations, movement to a different cube, and conditional movement to a different cube. < 1156039755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Need a looping construct in there. < 1156039767 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spin :D < 1156039772 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be the pattern of layout of different cubes? a tape, a meta-cube, variable names? < 1156039795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: Just a straight row of cubes. . .? < 1156039809 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a tape then < 1156039815 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.. I get all that... but how... does that turn out to be code? How would you add and subtract? < 1156039836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... there's more than one cube? < 1156039839 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes you earily close to a BF-clone < 1156039840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms. < 1156039844 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eerily < 1156039855 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh... just don't think in terms of BF... < 1156039864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no pointer ^_^ < 1156039876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointer to a cube. < 1156039940 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it is a BF-clone < 1156039957 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I say: no pointer. < 1156039967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still working on how that work though... < 1156039976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that logic, the Turing machine is a BF clone. < 1156039994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you do strings? < 1156040001 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are so close... < 1156040017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some similarity. < 1156040071 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the fractal cube idea. < 1156040075 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE CUBES MAAAAN < 1156040080 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with bounded cell values, translation is trivial < 1156040140 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he could make one of those nifty languages that Turing machines can't deal with. < 1156040141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing [!@#$!%^&] for my operations; I'm doing "while (1,2,3) (rotate (F); rotate (R); rotate(D'))". < 1156040186 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP: just include an unsolvable problem (such as the Halting Problem) as an instruction < 1156040218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I could do "macro rotateFRD' () (while (1,2,3) (rotate (F); rotate (R); rotate (D'));if (3,2,1) (rotateFRD')". < 1156040228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not exactly Brainfuckish. < 1156040239 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION designs a language that works like jumprope. < 1156040254 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function rotations? :) < 1156040270 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumprope? < 1156040293 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno... just thinking of how jump rope could be translated into a coding environment... < 1156040293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, let's do it all in sexp's, just to seperate it from Brainfuck further. < 1156040309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody else is doing physical-to-code analogies these days... I might as well do it too. < 1156040407 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a fairly normal language, currently. I'm trying to make an esolang that has some real utility- like console, file, and socket I/O. < 1156040414 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each rotation of the jump rope is a change in state... and you can alter the speed of swingage... and which direction you're rotating, as well as the direction the "person" is facing, and somehow translate that to IO < 1156040431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and function definitions that I can modify on the fly. < 1156040462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes... flexibility in functions would be nice. < 1156040496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem esoteric. < 1156040496 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh oh oh ! < 1156040502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yet). < 1156040529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be TWO PEOPLE swinging a jumprope... and an arbitrary number of people inside the area of the rope... ! < 1156040547 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could so easily turn that into brainfuck... but I'm going a different directions. < 1156040570 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it uses character-based instructions and a large amount of it's functionality is derived from self-modification. I think that's at least *kinda* esoteric... < 1156040575 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of those people could be having their own, smaller rope < 1156040591 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractal rope! < 1156040593 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it "SYNTHESYS". < 1156040596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works. :) < 1156040631 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1156040636 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotheric would be if the functions had to change themselves on the fly each time they were called < 1156040648 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was awkward to keep them stable < 1156040676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between "odd" esoteric, "theme" esoteric, and "sadism" esoteric. < 1156040703 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chef is theme esoteric. Malbolge is sadism esoteric. BF is odd esoteric. < 1156040708 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm.... actually... the jumprope idea would work nicely for event-based multi-processeing asynchronous loops < 1156040713 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BF isn't even that odd, < 1156040723 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's been copied so many times. < 1156040746 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it belongs to a fourth category: minimalistic esoteric < 1156040752 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA turing tarpit < 1156040775 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I could agree with that. Many things fall into both minimalistic and another category, though. < 1156040776 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadism esoteric sounds like fun.... I like beating things. < 1156040782 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1156040782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1156040801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a theme minimalist esolang. . . whee. . . < 1156040807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Malbolge is for you. < 1156040812 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the rubik's cube language had some potential for sadism < 1156040828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: It does, but I'm not feeling like it. < 1156040849 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between odd and sadism lies in the instruction set. < 1156040863 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe an RC bytecode, similar to Malbolge but with rotations for self-modification < 1156040897 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cringes. < 1156040922 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source code would be a list of rotations - which would have side effects < 1156040954 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would need to keep track of the current state of the cube to know which side effect < 1156040987 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm.. so back to codename "JumpRope" < 1156041014 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works on refining the spec for synthesys. < 1156041036 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "rope" could be a pending vending... and the different processes are people... and the people "jump" everytime the event (jumprope) occurs. < 1156041046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha... pending vending = pending even < 1156041048 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tt < 1156041068 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a good vending < 1156041085 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you understood that you are probably norwegian) < 1156041116 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then reversing the jumprope is changing from input to output. < 1156041168 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would the programs be in the form of children's verse? < 1156041178 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1156041199 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... I'm still working on how fractal ropes would work ^_^ < 1156041218 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some ropes could be faster than others < 1156041249 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... just for fun... we could have the option to have the child not jumping and being tripped by the rope... just cause I like to imagine a child planting their face in the concrete... < 1156041264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... I had imagined you could set different speeds for different ropes. < 1156041275 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... if the ropes are events... you can't really choose speeds. < 1156041278 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought this was _not_ a sadist language < 1156041306 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: will you kill me if SYNTHESYS makes use of a tape? < 1156041310 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "not jump" would be the equivalent of a pass. < 1156041371 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could choose how many times a rope turns (including fractional) each time the outer rope turns < 1156041381 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so I wonder if the ropes are individual events... or if they're how -often- events should be checkes for... how would speed work if the ropes are events? < 1156041433 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... I could just scratch the whole event thing... and go back to a more non-specialize d approach. < 1156041434 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ropes in the output direction it doesn't seem like a problem < 1156041455 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you had inner ropes listening for external events < 1156041505 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there can be multiple ropes at different speeds on the same "layer" < 1156041506 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rope might be listening for two events: it's own and the turning of an outer rope < 1156041557 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at all the thoughts < 1156041560 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be somewhat similar to a window system < 1156041569 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A... window system? < 1156041593 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as the passing of events, and nesting goes < 1156041615 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh oh oh oh wait! < 1156041655 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's reverse it... jumping is a pass... and tripping is an action... just cause that sounds better that way < 1156041667 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like imagining the children tripping when something happens. < 1156041709 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... let's get out of the event-oriented paradigm... and imagine it more abstractly.. < 1156041730 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A ROPE < 1156041745 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have... little kids, jumping at a somewhat steady tempo, that changes given new conditions... and we have ropes... covering certain numbers of these kids, spinning at their own speeds. < 1156041760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmORK < 1156041781 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine gravity mixed with ORK fixed with our original idea mixed with some other shit I can't think of right now. < 1156041799 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORK would be the obvious implementation language for this... < 1156041805 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1156041831 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... the more off-tempo the kids get with the rope... the closer and closer they get to tripping... < 1156041864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripping (or not tripping... or almost tripping... or any increment inbetween) can trigger certain bits and pieces of code... < 1156041876 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :events. < 1156041897 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh... sure... I was thinking more broadly though... < 1156042013 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagining a programming happening in RL is quite.... astounding... < 1156042043 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the RNA preprocessing system in human cells. < 1156042059 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language modelled after DNA/RNA? < 1156042072 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes one think- Our genetic code is turing complete. < 1156042094 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our cells constitute a *massively* parallel computer. < 1156042128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... so what would happen if a kid -holding- a rope trips? < 1156042143 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cells can communicate locally via protein links, and more globally using hormones and other chemical messengers. < 1156042172 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNA and internal chemical status are both program and memory space. < 1156042202 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ribosomes and transcription enzymes are the interpreter.' < 1156042225 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lysosomes.... carbage collectors? :D < 1156042231 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at chemical programming languages? they actually exist < 1156042256 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the same time, the ribosomes and the rest of the protein synthesis chain are the I/O system and flow control operators. < 1156042302 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is called gamma calculus, if i remember right < 1156042350 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code in our cells is primarily concerned with maintaining and building everything necessary for cell function, and in turn it's own execution. There is, however, plenty of processing power that could be used for other purposes. < 1156042396 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I weren't studying computer science, I'd be studying biology. < 1156042399 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... lets say an event is triggered only when Kid1 is tripped... but Kid1 is holding a rope... so does it temporarily pause that rope from happening until Kid1 stands up (which itself could be set to a certain speed)? < 1156042421 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what viruses do, essentially... < 1156042462 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they usually destroy the cell's own processing in the end < 1156042472 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. viruses are hacks that take advantage of existing cellular machinery to circumvent all the "unnecessary" maintenance code most cells have. < 1156042480 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=root@unaffiliated/bsmntbombdood JOIN :#esoteric < 1156042487 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because they overload the cell's functions. < 1156042522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some viruses that actually repair cells to an extent, to make them usable for reproduction. it's quite fascinating, < 1156042526 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, overload is an overloaded term here < 1156042528 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. I think I'm going to make a giant super-language called Playground... that has a bunch of different sub-languages built for certain applications.. < 1156042545 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hop-scotch, jumprope, red cover, duck duck goose. < 1156042552 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All could be used as a language. < 1156042558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... red rover < 1156042613 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember a case with a strain that could infect algal cells whose chloroplasts had been damaged by UV-radiation of some kind. they would apply "patch" code that could rebuild the affected proteins before making use of the cell. < 1156042707 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... but are there any symbiotic viruses? perhaps they exist but tend to get integrated into the cell's own DNA < 1156042743 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they wouldn't still be viruses. hm. < 1156042750 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that the primary requisite for life, contrary to the complex list posited in most biology texts, is simply reproduction with inherited change. Viruses are alive, because they are not static. < 1156042763 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroviruses integrate with host DNA. < 1156042783 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers computer code a form of life. < 1156042808 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, retroviruses are often used by genetic engineers as an easy way to patch existing organisms. < 1156042808 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but by symbiotic i mean mutually benifical rather than parasitic < 1156042829 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know of any offhand, but it's certainly possible. < 1156042849 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... could you synthesis a artificial virus? < 1156042866 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are few viruses that can reproduce without destroying their host, though.. < 1156042870 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes < 1156042878 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a "created" viruses could be used for beneficial crap. < 1156042919 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence the handful of genes your virus needs, and then PCR millions of copies. < 1156042965 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could patch all sorts of problems that way < 1156042979 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :introduce the raw DNA loops to some prokaryotes and disrupt their cell walls. Odds are, some will take up the new DNA. < 1156043003 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you just isolate your affected organisms and culture them. < 1156043077 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a retrovirus, you just patched the prokaryotes with new DNA. If it's a normal phage or something, the infected hosts will spawn fully-formed viruses with their normal protein coat, which can then reproduce without help. < 1156043097 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viruses are biological quines. < 1156043126 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like most quines, you can rebuild the complete program from just the data portion if you bootstrap it manually. < 1156043329 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to allay the natural fears here, most man-made viruses would end up being extremely fragile, easily broken by mutation, and wouldn't be as effective in the wild as evolved ones (even if they did specific things better). So, making viruses from scratch is not a path to an artificial "super-virus" plague. < 1156043368 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in 100 years we'll know enough about cellular machinery to worry. < 1156043385 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes how he made his IRC bot able to change itself mid-running with only one line of code... which is pretty damn cool given his newbiness. < 1156043387 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1156043391 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even our biological programs are buggy :-) < 1156043529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of what applications my jumprope could have... other than event programming, < 1156043535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else do you call genetic disorders? < 1156043557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1156043572 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... genetic mutations are one thing most programs don't have. < 1156043624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some computer viruses do that. < 1156043641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intentionally, of course. . . < 1156043641 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmworms < 1156043709 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... everyone help me out with my jumprope idea. < 1156043710 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1156043720 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alone I am weak and feeble. < 1156043736 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156043784 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some other stufff to make it different... what about variable assigment? < 1156043955 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww... the esolang wiki won't let me use "the prophet wizard of the craoyon cake" as a username. < 1156043978 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with CakeProphet? < 1156044006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... that's just my IRC nickname... the prophet wizard of the crayon cake is much more drawn out and esoteric. < 1156044018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the na,e I always use on wikis < 1156044117 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what you set as your signature nickname can be different. < 1156044143 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ho! < 1156044152 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't know how long it can be - or whether anyone would complain < 1156044177 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shows up in Talk pages only though < 1156044254 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a crayon cake btw? < 1156044285 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such things are not known by barely stew.. and are thus incomprehensibility to the data sphere supsanct modular crystal Bizera < 1156044306 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that is obvious < 1156044327 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not quite grammatical... < 1156044413 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for your variable assignment, you should be able to let people move between ropes < 1156044415 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156044431 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1156044477 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloning children might not be suitable for a playground alas < 1156044530 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1156044547 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, scared ihope away with that comment < 1156044578 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloning ropes might have fewer problems < 1156044647 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rope splitting? < 1156044665 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1156044685 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging too, perhaps. < 1156044685 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... how does moving between ropes create variable assignment? < 1156044717 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if persons are data, you have moved that data < 1156044736 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Placement in the row doesn't mean anything though.. it's not like brainfuck. < 1156044758 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but what rope you are under might matter < 1156044760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of people as function-like datatypes. < 1156044771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you do something else evil, like proove Homespring Turing complete? < 1156044778 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right right... I could say that being useful... but not the equivaent of variable assignment. < 1156044778 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are data to, says this unlambdaist < 1156044802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just functional programming. < 1156044804 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say = see < 1156044806 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homespring hmm... < 1156044841 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... the kids can be anything really... not nessicarily functions... but functions would be the way to go if I were going to make a -practical- language. < 1156044869 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ropes can be assigned, just split then move < 1156044871 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm think of something between ORK, gravity-ish, multi-threading shit :D < 1156044924 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, then you would have the ropes being the data and the children the functions acting on them < 1156044975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Originally.. in my event-based model... the ropes were events, and the children would "jump" when the event happens... but... I've changed it a bit now. < 1156045013 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, events can be data too < 1156045018 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure < 1156045051 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an open file < 1156045058 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or socket < 1156045081 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to shift away from a practical language to a fun-and-interesting-to-play-around-with-while-still-being-usable-although-a-little-bit-more-difficult-than-your-regular-language type language. < 1156045125 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need "timing" to get everything to synchronize right in your program... < 1156046130 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rope merging is possible... unless the ropes are exactly the same as far as data goes. < 1156046141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rope splitting is possible though. < 1156046469 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1156046499 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGOBOT?! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1156046513 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... this will be amazingly complex to code in... I like it. < 1156046539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people use sterling. . . < 1156046579 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hm? < 1156046598 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/User:CakeProphet (that's the basic outline for JumpRope) < 1156046631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanj: Only a handful of people got lost in the netsplit. < 1156046721 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JumpRope is turning out to be like a mix between some sort of OO language and a gravity-like system that involves multiple things rather than just a single "gravity" < 1156046864 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There can be any number of ropes being spun by a single child" sounds a bit unrealistic < 1156046883 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad < 1156046904 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is splitting and merging ropes realistic... no... hahahahaha muyhahahahahahaha... I just like imaginging it. < 1156046917 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't mean a "single" child... there will be two children per every jumprope. < 1156046921 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156046925 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, only children at the end of a rope should be able to spin it < 1156046939 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside, or outside, or either? < 1156046974 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is inside it could be single, _if_ there are no other children inside the same rope < 1156046976 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holding a jumprope.... think of them as the "border" of the rope... any childreen inbetween the two holders will be jumping... but theywill only be spinning. < 1156046998 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "realistic" restrictions can add to the difficulty of programming < 1156047028 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope... I'm not making restrictions... I'm making it so complex that it'll be difficult. < 1156047062 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's so many different options and ways for things to happen.... that the coder will have to set everything up as though it were a puzzle. < 1156047066 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unnecessary complexity can be ignored < 1156047072 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1156047076 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. either way.. it doesn't matter :D < 1156047085 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restrictions seem... boring. < 1156047119 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, restrictions can actually make it less likely that you can ignore a complexity < 1156047141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt more-than=one=rope being held by two kids will make anything that much easier. < 1156047172 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. eh. < 1156047186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see... I'm still just in the early phases of thinking-things-out. < 1156047204 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I really like it though. < 1156047232 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, actually... if there is no way to add unlimited children then they may have to hold unlimited number of ropes < 1156047259 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1156047303 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not. the unbounded speeds might be enough to get unlimited memory < 1156047325 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming you would want turing completeness < 1156047332 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... I'm not sure if there's a strict "limit" to how many children can be under one rope... if it's pre-determined by the ropes "length" (range of children), or if unlimited children can just be impossibly fitted into one rope. < 1156047348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1156047368 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far... I've got everything limitless... so chances of turing-ness are looking good. < 1156047413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you prove it impossible to do Brainfuck in it. < 1156047467 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlimited jump tempo... unlimited possibilities for different asynchronizations... unlimited rope geld by a child between anyone, unlimited numbers of children inside a rope. < 1156047500 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you could add new children at any point. how do you assign functions to children? < 1156047501 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If () is the confines of the rope and a 0 is a child... you could pretty much put them in any combination. < 1156047511 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUnno. < 1156047514 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still working on that... < 1156047536 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be a limited number of functions or would you write classes of children? < 1156047553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(o o o((o o o ) o o o) o o o o ) < 1156047576 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm? < 1156047586 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. no limits.. < 1156047618 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking either the children are functions... any specific datatype... or an subclass of Child with their own methods. < 1156047625 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is holding the outermost rope in that diagram? < 1156047637 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... too people I forgot to incluce :D < 1156047647 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o(o o o((o o o ) o o o) o o o o )o < 1156047666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imaging that happening RL.... and gawk < 1156047671 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will the children always form a line? < 1156047684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs, "Maybe.. maybe not..." < 1156047704 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea how I could implement 2-D placement of kids though. < 1156047715 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still make it usable... jump ropes are pretty linear. < 1156047727 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a graph < 1156047732 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1156047738 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure why not. < 1156047748 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make this as limitless and complex as possible :D < 1156047752 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is -not- a turing tarpit ^_^ < 1156047779 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a turing great flood < 1156047791 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :landslide perhaps... < 1156047796 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I -could- limit two jumpropes per child.. one per hand or something. < 1156047816 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was thinking < 1156047827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could they go in the same direction? < 1156047869 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would it -have- to be like this o( o o o o o o o o o ) o ( o o o o o o o o o o o)0 < 1156047886 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of o(( o o o o o o o o o o o ) o o o o o o ) < 1156047912 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh... any direction I dare say < 1156047953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... actually... I think the children will act like functions... not objects... that will make it more complex. < 1156047973 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would need more children... thus more tempos.. and crap... < 1156047988 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.. I see what you mean by restrictions creating more interesting situations. < 1156048036 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all seems needles though... you could probably accomplish a number of things with just one rope and a few children... so it would be neato if I could implement it so that any usable programable needs a large number of children and ropes. < 1156048090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snickers* One line per asynchronization? < 1156048157 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... that's right... the kids aren't functions at all... I totally forgot my idea there. < 1156048168 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The children act as conduits for a number of situations. < 1156048202 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using some Python-like code... it would look like. < 1156048339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Kid1.async(5) from Rope1: jump 3 faster, Kid1 = "h" < 1156048361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... maybe the kids are variables? < 1156048396 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make it hard to add an unlimited number < 1156048417 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1156048441 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be hard to do much of anything with -only- variables. < 1156048494 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if each kid has its own name then you cannot add them on the fly < 1156048553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When kids are created... they have specific, immutable datatypes... but never functions... they can be lists, strings, integers, or maybe even conditionals if I'm feeling dangerous. < 1156048561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1156048571 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure I can. < 1156048644 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conceive Tom the variable" "Tom jumps in cheesestringRope" < 1156048647 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on how you can refer to kids, i suppose < 1156048660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any name is possible. < 1156048665 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean by on the fly is: < 1156048687 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add an unlimited number of kids at runtime < 1156048708 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1156048709 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their names cannot all be mentioned in the program < 1156048723 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be possible in the first place? < 1156048763 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have some way of referring to a kid other than a name unique to it < 1156048782 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.. there has to be something identifying them... < 1156048787 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something unique... to specific < 1156048837 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number in line perhaps < 1156048852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.. I was going for verboose syntax. < 1156048864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbers scare me. < 1156048875 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :names would work if they were local to a function < 1156048896 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then each function invocation could conceive of a new kid < 1156048903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... in the language itself.. there will be no functions. < 1156048918 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of lexical scope then < 1156048958 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe children themselves will be objects of a class... but that won't come into play in the language itself. < 1156049041 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will the code of the program have to be encoded entirely in the arrangement and data of the ropes and kids? < 1156049050 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conveice Tom the variable" Would create a variable object named Tom... variable is a subclass of Child < 1156049057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :D < 1156049090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't it to be challenging... puzzle-like. < 1156049093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want < 1156049118 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering making -all- statements depending on certain conditions... < 1156049136 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, my brain is about to stop working - need to go to bed < 1156049142 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1156049159 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you another time < 1156049164 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1156049172 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1156049176 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156052183 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156052225 0 :Razor-X!n=user@user-11fa5b3.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156052336 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs crashed :(. < 1156052377 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Twas a sad sad moment. < 1156052404 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad indeed. < 1156052431 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs has crashed twice since my computer has been on. I guess it's not quite as stable as the rest of the OS. < 1156052462 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you never answered my question: will you kill me if my language has a tape? < 1156052474 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1156052478 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156052491 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on the advantages I get, and whether it outweighs the pain received from using the tape. < 1156052544 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about functions that can be modified on the fly, and socket I/O? < 1156052564 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just ask Xenu to prove to you that world that is the gestalt being and watch thousands of years of useless faith go down the toilet along with hundreds and thousands of once-devout worshippers masochating (is that a word?) in agony. < 1156052577 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not too bad. < 1156052588 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1156052637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just get a good ol' clambake to show you that Xenu == shit. < 1156052663 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he's not exactly a looker, no. He made our vision spectrum inferior to his. < 1156052666 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about creating loops with [] that are non-conditional and that use a # to break out of the loop (optionally prefaced with a conditional operator). < 1156052670 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've extended my concept... check out http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/User:CakeProphet < 1156052690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean that he is literally made of shit. < 1156052713 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you dare downplay Xenu. < 1156052764 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Are we creating non-BF languages? < 1156052770 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the Esolangs community COMING to?! < 1156052822 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're COMING to the realization that some people have blood feuds brewing against BF clones. < 1156052830 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still likes DBF. < 1156052837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One BF is enough.. < 1156052850 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've dilutted its greatness by making too many damn clones. < 1156052854 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four or five BF's are enough. < 1156052858 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I guess we're finally emerging from the Dark Ages. < 1156052874 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean "The Fuck Ages"? < 1156052884 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That sounds too vulgar. < 1156052894 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the idea. < 1156052899 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid BF revealed itself just as the Imagination Nomads invaded Esome. < 1156052908 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds more distopian than "The Brain Ages" < 1156052948 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the old Emperor of Esome split the Empire in two. He created the NotSoEsome which began creating semi-useful languages, and the Western Esome fell into darkness. < 1156052972 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both NotSoEsome and Esome both embrace BF as their new religion. < 1156052991 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though the FsckProphet has revealed himself in later occasions. < 1156053016 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunh. very... pseudobiblical, Razor-X. < 1156053050 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now Esome is emerging from the Brain Ages. Only to take the entire OSS World by storm, to hopeless colonize the OSS World, and to create a whole breed of new bas**** languages. < 1156053083 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156053091 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... we should all talk JumpRope and how to make it even more kickass. < 1156053100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubikode FTW! < 1156053161 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But soon, the NotSoEsome will collapse by BFA, the ``newer'' version of BF. < 1156053179 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNTHESYS FTW! < 1156053202 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this sounds like History class, I'd maybe imply that you were correct, but reveal nothing. < 1156053223 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1156053240 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there'll be a test on this material tomorrow? < 1156053244 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1156053251 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait for the Rennaisance. < 1156053253 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles furiously. < 1156053270 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what we'll create! And the Obfuscated-NewLogic wars too. < 1156053297 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you be interested in helping be develop synthesys once I get further along in writing the spec? < 1156053304 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*helping me < 1156053306 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the worshipers of BF will drive out the BFA infidels from their mailing lists, unite, and begin colonizing. < 1156053319 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For DBF? < 1156053340 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no- SYNTHESYS is a new language I'm developing. < 1156053348 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1156053402 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to kinda place emphasis on self-modification while attempting to actually be a useful language. < 1156053476 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to make the code not look ass-ugly, as some languages have a tendency toward. < 1156053655 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code modularity and the loading of external libraries seems like a good goal as well. < 1156053665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... if "offset = Childtempo - Ropetempo" would tripping occur when offset = o? < 1156053668 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... o? < 1156053670 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... 0? < 1156053698 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so. < 1156053714 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this MOD? 1? < 1156053730 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1156053745 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause, the offset would have to stay in a particular range to be logical.. < 1156053751 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modulus. < 1156053774 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.... < 1156053781 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you tell when tripage occurs? < 1156053803 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to make the range for offset being unlimited... < 1156053823 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's assume the movement of the rope and the kid are sinusoidal. < 1156053831 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1156053833 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are... what? < 1156053841 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the shape of a sine curve. < 1156053847 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1156053852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is -not- a math person. < 1156053856 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1156053874 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind, then- I'm not going to try to explain this at 1AM. < 1156053890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... what would the range have to be? < 1156053903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point the offset would factor down. < 1156053934 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's say you're drawing a circle. < 1156053964 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go halfway around, you have half a circle. < 1156053978 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go all the way around, you have a circle. < 1156053998 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go three complete times around, you still have only made one circle. < 1156054005 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see where I'm going with this? < 1156054015 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.... < 1156054074 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ropetempo/Childtempo - Childtempo/Roadtempo" ???? < 1156054093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratches head. < 1156054096 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wouldn't work. < 1156054102 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1156054128 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulo_operation < 1156054134 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this will do what you need. < 1156054144 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! < 1156054150 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. < 1156054181 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1156054200 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my work here is done. Good... morning... everyone, I'm going to get some sleep. < 1156054206 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tips his hat. < 1156054231 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See ya < 1156054244 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1156054513 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm.. < 1156054514 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now... < 1156054540 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out how the hell offset effects the different increments of asynchronization... and how to even create a workable notation for that. < 1156054653 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault." < 1156057970 0 :Arrogant!i=Scott@63.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156058244 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-90.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1156060525 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap.... head hurts... from trying to... code... in my prototype JumpRope code. < 1156060799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1156060800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1156060849 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you get scared if I say ``sine curve'' ? ;) < 1156060895 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1156060912 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just putting random numbers in as tempos and working with them. < 1156060924 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. T3h family went out all day, and now I must churn my vocabulary. < 1156061217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can compile this thing... I dare say it may be one of the most difficult language I've ever seen. < 1156061591 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse than INTERCAL? < 1156062643 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1156062650 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check out the hello world prog: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/User:CakeProphet < 1156062662 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized halfway through I could have made it so much simpler. < 1156062715 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future considerations: condense syntax < 1156062813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes Razor-X < 1156064098 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not worse than Malbolge, I have to say. < 1156064635 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrogant, o,o It took me near 45 minutes of tedious, repetitive typing and math calculating to get it to print "Hello, world!" ....how sucky is Malbolge? < 1156064660 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge encrypts the instruction after executing it < 1156064663 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge < 1156066150 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Don't think you've made the worst language in the world. < 1156066159 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to beat Malbolge. < 1156066173 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1156066187 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hello World program of INTERCAL is 200+ lines, IIRC (when not using the standard library). < 1156066189 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. well I wasn't even going for difficult to begin with.. so... < 1156066193 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually < 1156066205 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not actually hard to beat it) < 1156066225 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well Malbolge skirts that invisible line of still programmable. < 1156066272 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has severe weaknesses as a cryptosystem < 1156066333 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml - near the end, a section entitled "It could be worse" < 1156066513 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmability in Malbolge comes from its weaknesses < 1156066969 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, making a language hard to program in is not very original as a goal < 1156067080 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the slump the entire Esolangs Community (hereby referred to as Esome) suffers under, IMO. < 1156067123 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploring new possibilities is nice, though; making original contributions is too < 1156067139 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I especially miss the humour part in recent esolangs < 1156067151 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the very heart of INTERCAL < 1156067167 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Esolangs are becoming quite academic now. < 1156067178 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea in my mind which I want to develop < 1156067182 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language called "Numb" < 1156067195 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you specify what NOT to do < 1156067212 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T STORE 3 INTO B" < 1156067213 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of my ideas seem novel enough. I had an idea to base on sine curves, but I need more thinking time. < 1156067271 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we really need a nice competitive language, like Redcode but more esoteric/fun too. < 1156067310 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already FyB too < 1156067328 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know but... no offense to GregorR, it just seems a bit... blah. < 1156067410 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types in Numb would be non-negative (unsigned), non-numeric (string), non-real (imaginary) < 1156067439 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" None of my ideas seem novel enough." ... "I think we really need a nice competitive language" \ " there's already FyB" \ " (generic argument) < 1156067444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of being novel :P < 1156067466 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can go into specifics if you want. < 1156067474 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, do. < 1156067518 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to get ideas on what to do to get Numb to actually execute code; I'm considering a statement "DON'T OBEY NEXT" and a clause "DON'T UNLESS blah" < 1156067527 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1156067561 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems too simple an extension to BF. We can make a similar extension to any stack-based language relatively easily and get a competitive language. < 1156067577 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: Heh. Lots of INTERCAL inspiration it seems. < 1156067609 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly but it's harder and harder to be original :) < 1156067640 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesen't mean we can't try. < 1156067678 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I'm poor in imagination < 1156067696 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already wrote the BitXtreme specification < 1156067708 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pgimeno. And now, I'm going to sleep :P < 1156067715 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: That's hardly an argument. < 1156067716 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, nite GregorR < 1156067723 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1156067734 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: It's not bad by any means, I just was hoping to make something *more* original. < 1156068063 0 :_jol_!n=_@c5850-a3-2-62-147-23-183.dial.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156069370 0 :kipple!n=kipple@203.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1156071679 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156074835 0 :_jol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1156075485 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156076378 0 :pgimeno!n=pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156076682 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...000560 < 1156077792 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-f33ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1156078531 0 :ihope!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156079870 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is {} a valid compound statement in C? < 1156080181 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault." < 1156081928 0 :_jol_!n=_@c5850-a3-2-62-147-22-90.dial.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156082475 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: yes, I think it is < 1156082506 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about {something()}? Is that valid, or would I have to use {something();}? < 1156082518 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1156082590 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to avoid using semicolons in a C program? < 1156082606 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){} < 1156082648 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at least one semicolon is needed < 1156082661 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything but an empty main(), that is < 1156082710 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an infinite loop: main(){while(0){}} < 1156082715 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1156082724 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that opens a whole can o' worms < 1156082740 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible to write someting < 1156082860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){while(printf("Hello, world!\n"),0){}} < 1156082862 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, while(0) was not an infinite loop < 1156082867 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1156082877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think comp.lang.c had a discussion about this once. < 1156082883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe it was somewhere in IRC.) < 1156082884 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){while(expr,expr,0){}} < 1156082897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the comma do? < 1156082928 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it concatenates expressions to form an expresion whose result is the last in the comma series < 1156082949 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the result of 1,2,3,0 is 0 < 1156082952 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil. < 1156082956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in "a,b" the "a" and "b" are evaluated sequentially, from left to right, with a sequence point in-between. < 1156082957 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1156082979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather useful in, say, for(i = 0, j = 0; ....) < 1156082985 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use do, for, if, while... as expressions though < 1156082986 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, say, is main(); a valid program? < 1156082997 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, functions require {} < 1156083024 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid limitation IMO but anyway < 1156083045 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think these are prototypes < 1156083083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello world without semicolon": http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/eaaa5febf2f108f7/b6762266408b5e10 < 1156083098 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd say that C-without-semicolon is Turing-complete. < 1156083194 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use recursion instead of loops. < 1156083288 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible, C is not TC ;) < 1156083490 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't? < 1156083513 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even without malloc(), you have local variables. < 1156083528 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no unbounded storage < 1156083565 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the C spec state that storage is bounded? < 1156083578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a discussion about *that* here. < 1156083582 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1156083593 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yep to fizzie) < 1156083626 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C spec states that sizeof(a pointer) returns an int IIRC < 1156083633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall the results, though. I think it depended on the reading of the standard: the storage needs to be addressable, at least, but I don't remember if the spec implicitly allowed or disallowed "int of infinitely many bits". < 1156083687 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intfinity! < 1156083693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1156083696 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1156083753 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the result is not a float, where infinity is a valid value < 1156083759 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an integer < 1156083781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You (possibly) might still have an unlimited integer. < 1156083810 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1156083836 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I recall from the discussion, at least < 1156083862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it was very clear, but could be. < 1156083997 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the same limitation of sizeof() applies to all types < 1156084018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-without-semicolon doesn't even need recursion for looping, btw: http://colin.tky.hut.fi/~fis/fibo.c.txt is a very simple iterative fibonacci proggie. < 1156084097 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, true... the while() itself does loop < 1156084165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a bit iffy: can't really declare variables (outside parameter lists) or return anything from functions (without using a pointer as an output parameter). < 1156084282 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's see here... < 1156084287 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write that sentence the other way around: you can declare variables (within parameter lists) and return anything from functions (using a pointer as an output parameter) < 1156084305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'm just a bit negative. < 1156084317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be one of the "glass is half full" type of people. < 1156084321 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1156084395 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... can we write C-without-semicolon without using if, for, or while? < 1156084403 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or until, if there's such a thing? < 1156084486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "until", but "yes". < 1156084507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1156084515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first thought did not work out. :p < 1156084756 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use for < 1156084771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly use a switch. < 1156084919 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe, like line numbers in BASIC < 1156084963 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1156084968 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... < 1156084975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, switch(..., ..., 0) {} < 1156084977 0 :_jol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1156084986 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, forget the BASIC bit < 1156084987 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1156085018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you outlaw everything the spec calls an "selection-statement" or an "iteration-statement", then it might be impossible. < 1156085072 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Spain there's a saying: what you want is that the bull catches me! < 1156085084 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originated from a joke < 1156085193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least any "statement" you could put an expression in either includes a ";" or is a selection/iteration-statement (if, switch, while). < 1156085219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(According to my reading of C99 6.8.) < 1156085300 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What if you're in a street and there's a bull coming towards you?" "I'd climb to a fence" "And if there's no fence?" "I'd look for a shop or something" "And if there's no shop" "I'd try to run to the closest corner" "And if there's a wall?" "I'd try to jump it" "And if it's too high?" "Hey, what you want is me to be caught by the bull!" < 1156085656 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, according to the thread there's a problem: in C89 main() must return a value and thus needs a semicolon. < 1156085834 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, you can avoid both ; and {} by using trigraphs < 1156085843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no trigraph for ;. < 1156085895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: Funny, I thought that was part of the POSIX spec, and not the C spec. < 1156085898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1156085916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are trigraphs for #, ], |, [, ^, }, \, { and ~. < 1156085926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No other trigraph sequences exist." < 1156085929 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know, you have to avoid ; as discussed here < 1156085929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For C99, at least.) < 1156085945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right; misinterpreted, then. < 1156085948 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and {} by trigraphs < 1156085965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trigraphs are just sick, though. < 1156085968 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a not very good wording on my side < 1156086068 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you mean the trigraphs as part of POSIX? < 1156086094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: No, I mean the part about main() needing to return a value. < 1156086099 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1156086137 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a discussion here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/eaaa5febf2f108f7/64fd1228e56f23ec?hide_quotes=no < 1156086150 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(part of the above pointed by fizzie) < 1156086174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Couldn't someone do some C coding with stuff like if(step_1) {null} if(step_2) {null} to avoid semicolons? :p < 1156086182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1156086188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Couldn't someone do some C coding with stuff like if(step_1) {} if(step_2) {} to avoid semicolons? :p < 1156086210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that what we've been talking about? < 1156086231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Someone mentioned that already? < 1156086234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fek. < 1156086274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is giving me some evil obfuscated C ideas. . . < 1156086483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX does give additional semantics for the return values, though. The C only defines the meaning of returning 0, EXIT_SUCCESS or EXIT_FAILURE from main. < 1156087448 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=RodgerTh@c-68-41-14-137.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156087650 0 :jix_!i=jix@L6123.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1156087668 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1156088983 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My first dream that I can remember was a nightmare. I was about 3 years old. I dreamed that my eyes popped out of my head and they were flying away from me and I tried to catch them, I never did" < 1156089013 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you quoting? < 1156089062 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21920#21920 < 1156089074 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never forget to paste the URL's right after quoting... < 1156089150 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok. < 1156090839 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I was planning to start using minix3 but it would seem it doesn't suppoprt virtual memory or shared libraries... that is a serious limitation < 1156091737 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? BF is a serious limitation. < 1156092102 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use BF for serious work, but I do use Linux for it < 1156093822 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to listen to this sound clip, but fails < 1156093829 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enough is enough! I have--" < 1156093881 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there we go. "Enough is enough! I have had it with these mother[beep]ing planes on this mother[beep]ing snake!" < 1156093900 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-51.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1156094012 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planes on a Snake? < 1156094105 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the planes will need snake oil < 1156094500 0 :Keymaker!n=nobody@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1156094565 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it odd that I seriously want this movie to exist? http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/12-30-05-hybrids/Trent.jpg < 1156094586 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, world < 1156094633 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want, universe? < 1156094658 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would star Samuel Jackson, so it'd be more like "Hello world, MuthaF#@ka!" < 1156094684 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean hello, muthaf#@in world? < 1156094745 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way. < 1156094745 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is snakes on a plane already in movies? < 1156094756 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that soap was called < 1156094758 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1156094955 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Snakes on a Plane opera! < 1156094985 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1156095762 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns to an old quine work.. < 1156095784 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work=program < 1156095895 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'll just let someone else write the spec for Thubi :-P < 1156095911 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new language? < 1156095914 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1156095918 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. what kind of? < 1156095929 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot like Thue. < 1156095941 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1156095946 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good then :D < 1156095970 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write at least something at esowiki.. if i understand it i may expand the article :) < 1156096622 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-95-197.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156096717 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's \? used for in C? < 1156097158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean "\ and ?" or the combination "\?"? < 1156097176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The escape code \?. < 1156097250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "?". < 1156097263 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it for? < 1156097315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's used to write something like "??=" without having it changed to "#" when trigraph processing is enabled. < 1156097374 0 :_jol_!n=_@c5850-a3-2-62-147-61-153.dial.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156097380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (C99), 5.2.1.1 ("Trigraph sequences"), paragraph 2: "EXAMPLE The following source line printf("Eh???/n"); becomes (after replacement of the trigraph sequence ??/) printf("Eh?\n");" < 1156097386 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1156097389 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd write "?\?=" instead? < 1156097409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "\?\?=", if you want to be explicit about it. < 1156097416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way would work. < 1156097451 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. I won't include it in Thubi, then. < 1156097485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have to admit I haven't really been paying attention to ?s in my strings. < 1156097537 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1156097720 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just get 'trigraph.c:9:19: warning: trigraph ??/ ignored' from printf("Eh???/n"); < 1156097751 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with -trigraphs i get "trigraph.c:9:19: warning: trigraph ??/ converted to \" < 1156097846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, no-one uses trigraphs, so I guess gcc thinks it prudent to warn. < 1156097875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does convert trigraphs if you use -ansi or -std=x, where 'x' is one of the ISO standards. < 1156097893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're trigraphs for? < 1156097934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some computing environments lack some of the punctuation (like {} or []) C needs. < 1156097964 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What computing environments are those? < 1156097976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something very ancient. < 1156098028 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nokia communicator 9110 for one does not do { easily < 1156098041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early ASCII versions before the 1968 standard lacked ^. < 1156098048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They used to have an up-arrow there.) < 1156098057 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a filter to convert "[[" to "{" before i heard about trigraphs < 1156098913 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GrandmotherChaos < 1156098931 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1156099265 0 :GrandmotherChaos!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1156099349 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h68.231.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156100006 0 :_jol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"temci lo nu citka" < 1156102609 0 :_jol_!n=_@c5850-a3-2-62-147-22-113.dial.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156103695 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156104588 0 :oerjanj!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1156105399 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h68.231.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156105548 0 :_jol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1156106093 0 :oerjanj!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1156106260 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-59-130.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156106325 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1156106400 0 :Sph1nx!n=sphinx@89-178-59-130.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1156107762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The ISO 640 character set has those symbols as optional (ISO 640 is a subset of ASCII). . . < 1156107791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're now outdated, but provide for some evil code obfuscation possibilities. < 1156108446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :☼ │ ? Ü4 Q ô2 :Θ; b↓ÌÈ < 1156108453 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :☼ │ ? Ü4 Q ô2 :Θ; b↓ÌÈ╫µÖ < 1156108576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's getting it. :p < 1156108644 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.- < 1156108808 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1156108873 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h68.231.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1156109682 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ü < one character smiley < 1156109703 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that for a game once instead of char 1. < 1156109711 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS game? :-P < 1156109717 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :palmOS game. < 1156109730 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, does palmOS also have the funky smiley-face for char 1? < 1156109732 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the palm fonts don't have characters for low-order ASCII < 1156109740 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sadly. < 1156109740 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1156109761 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just turn into the "non-character block" thing. < 1156109767 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1156109774 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thoughts exactly. < 1156109775 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've used an @. < 1156109776 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's traditional. < 1156109784 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, roguey. < 1156109805 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a u-umlaut is nearly as good as char 0. < 1156109808 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, watch a DirectNet DHT forming: http://directnet.sourceforge.net/dht.avi ^^ < 1156109811 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1156109811 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1156111122 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, GregorR- I made something for you. DO NOT PUT THE BABY IN THE PIXEL ART! http://rodger.shadowarts.org/images/BabyPixel.gif < 1156111164 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1156111169 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1156111169 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't /quite/ fit the theme. < 1156111174 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1156111174 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll accept it if you put the yellow bg on. < 1156111184 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, and is it the same size? < 1156111191 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think it is ... < 1156111203 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okie dokie. (It's on a transparency atm. I can rescale it as needed) < 1156111242 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make sure it's the same size as all the others, put the same color yellow as the BG (it's 254-254-0) and give me a copyright line. < 1156111269 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. what did you have in mind copyright-wise? < 1156111293 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A name or pseudonym. < 1156111297 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1156111307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No license except that I can put it on the site :-P < 1156111331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I may put it on merch if said merch has a bunch of 'em. < 1156111500 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1156111581 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a copyright notice *on* the image, or what? < 1156111662 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I put it below the image.l < 1156111670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need the name for the notice so I can put it there :-P < 1156111704 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go: < 1156111706 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.shadowarts.org/images/BabyPixel.gif < 1156111711 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) RodgerTheGreat < 1156111759 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :license granted for use on website, merchandise sold, and any other direct or indirect representation of the above image. < 1156111987 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever played "Hunt The Wumpus"? < 1156112051 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1156112078 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a doodle I drew the other day of how I imagine the ravenous beast looking: http://rodger.shadowarts.org/art/Wumpus.gif < 1156112144 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Pixel < 1156112156 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1156112522 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Do you have any notes on SYNTHESIS? < 1156112533 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow. My wrist is cramping. Mind my slow speed. < 1156112578 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at the moment. I'm trying to decide how I'm going to handle memory, which kinda defines how a lot of other things should work. < 1156112611 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do a tape with optionally named cell aliases. < 1156112621 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the basic concept about? < 1156112669 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self modification via recursive string manipulation and evaluation. < 1156112688 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "recursive" part depends on how people use it. < 1156112741 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a tape-based memory makes conditionals really simple, which I like. However, there may be a more appropriate way to do them. < 1156112755 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive string manipulation? Example? < 1156112824 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could have a function that evaluates itself near the end. By having that same function modify the string that represents itself, it could change from iteration to iteration. < 1156112847 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. So like a standard functional language recursive function? < 1156112855 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically. < 1156112920 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language based on self-modification naturally needs a fairly straightforward syntax, so that it isn't extremely painful to use this ability. < 1156112959 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a simple two-array system, one of functions and one of arrays. < 1156112965 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/arrays/strings/ < 1156112976 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156112992 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, each "cell" represents an entire string, rather than a character? < 1156112996 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1156113004 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work quite well. < 1156113013 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a set of builtins, we can add to an array slot, modify the slot, push a string, pop a string, and such. < 1156113040 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. string manipulation could be stack-based in some way. < 1156113089 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can make it Unlambda style where the builtins are simple letters. That'll make it easy to swap the arrays so you can have functions modifying functions. < 1156113112 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, separate arrays for functions and "normal" strings would be unnecessary, by just saying that you can attempt to evaluate any string as a function. < 1156113130 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156113132 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason I wanted the seperate arrays was for self-code-modification. < 1156113173 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing unchangable in the language is the structure of the two arrays and the builtins theselves. Everything else is game. < 1156113190 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we could make it buffer a string whenever it's evaluated, and then any modifications to the string while it runs would be ignored until it iterates again. < 1156113229 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was making the assumption that this is a functional world. < 1156113239 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1156113241 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one mutable string on a stack. < 1156113351 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what type of operators do you think this language would need, on a basic level? < 1156113358 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. < 1156113406 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push string, pop string, concat strings, .... < 1156113413 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we making this turing complete? < 1156113434 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to work with characters by themselves, but working on larger groups in a meaningful way can get more complex.. < 1156113439 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Ideally. < 1156113452 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we need integer operations too. < 1156113668 0 :Sph1nx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection