00:01:11 <lament> jix: help me with scheme-omega!
00:03:36 <wildhalcyon> I know someone had mentioned melon, and I think orange, earlier, but not pineapple
00:04:07 <lament> there will be a pineapple if you help me with scheme-omega
00:07:28 <wildhalcyon> lament: I don't know enough about scheme-omega to help. I'm not good with cardinality
00:07:50 <lament> this is not really a cardinality question
00:09:26 <lament> the question is: is there any difference between providing and not provinding a Homega instruction in scheme-omega?
00:10:05 <lament> scheme-omega already has instructions Hn for all natural numbers n
00:10:28 <lament> therefore it can halt-check any scheme-n
00:10:49 <lament> but it has to know in advance which Hn to choose
00:11:40 <lament> H-omega would be a single instruction capable of halt-checking ANY scheme-n
00:12:09 <jix> well this way the program is always a valid scheme-n progra
00:12:20 <jix> so it isn't something better than that scheme-n
00:12:28 <lament> you can generate the instruction on the fly
00:12:45 <lament> i'm sure you can do something like that in Scheme
00:14:59 <lament> i thought originally that you would need the Homega instruction
00:15:07 <lament> but really, you don't need Homega to interpret Brainhype
00:15:32 <lament> you just count how many levels of braces the brainhype program has
00:15:39 <lament> and use the corresponding Hn
00:17:19 <lament> (to make this easier, the 'n' should be an argument to H)
00:17:32 <lament> (so the H instruction would be (H <ordinal> <code>))
00:20:48 <wildhalcyon> Im not sure how that happened. My fingers have a mind of their own
00:20:59 <lament> it can't be an argument
00:22:03 <lament> can't be generated on the fly either
00:25:40 <lament> (yes it can, and yes it can)
00:26:26 <lament> here's an actual question as opposed to a rant.
00:28:24 <lament> here's some more ranting.
00:29:04 <lament> I can make a program that simply runs (Hn '()) in an infinite loop.
00:29:09 <lament> increasing Hn every time.
00:30:15 <lament> Obviously this program is not scheme-n for any natural n
00:30:28 <lament> however it CAN be halt-checked with Homega
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00:46:02 <lament> i think the only sane answer to that question is "no"
00:46:20 <lament> it's a scheme-omega program
01:10:29 <SimonRC> ihope_: if you set up dgamelaunch on a box you own, you could use that to launch an publicly-accessible locked-down IRC client of some kind.
01:12:40 <jix> http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/omgrofl/ << not sure wether it works or not
01:17:21 <jix> interpreter
01:43:00 <bsmntbombdood> Does anyone have any brainscrambler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainscrambler) programs?
02:27:36 <GregorR> I think that amounts to "no, we don't"
02:31:16 <ihope_> You can translate a BF program into a Brainscrambler program easily enough.
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08:57:36 <sedimin_> I have a little problem with esolang wiki - In every browser I have installed I tried to edit large page (http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants), with fixed TOC, but the server always closes connection when I try to save changes....
08:58:15 <sedimin_> and I just can't get to save the edited page or preview it
09:00:08 <bsmntbombdood> how come you are using esoteric.voxelperfect.net instead of esolangs.org?
09:01:23 <sedimin_> when I first came there through google, and I bookmarked it, it was always this link
09:03:19 <sedimin_> hm, now I see that wikipedia links to esolangs.org
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14:01:05 * SimonRC curses the previous owners of this SGI workstation.
14:01:37 <SimonRC> It is set to boot from disk, but there are no disks in it.
14:02:43 <SimonRC> Fortunately, it is not an IBM PC (by definition), so it has a boot prompt (with flashy graphics and a twangy startup sound), with which I am supposed to be a ble to get it to netboot.
14:05:04 <SimonRC> eklisha (my PC) is acting correctly as a DHCP server, but I will have to RTFM for tlwpenst (the SGI), to get it to retrieve the correct file from elkisha.
14:05:29 <SimonRC> well, you can hardly expect support for things found in the junk pile round the back of the engineering dept.
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14:29:57 <sedimin_> why the smallest bugs take the most time to find and fix?
14:44:15 <ihope> The same reason smaller "real" bugs are harder to see than larger ones?
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16:51:30 * SimonRC has an SGI workstation, for those who missed the news
16:52:35 <ihope> Woot, it looks like the regex /(s?[b-df-hj-np-tv-z]?[rlwy]?[aeiouy]{1,2}[b-df-hj-np-tv-z]{0,3})*/ matches English-sounding words :-)
16:52:40 <SimonRC> I got it from the junk pile behind the engineering dept
16:53:06 <SimonRC> It lacks a disk, and netbooting is turning out to be tricky
16:53:52 <SimonRC> A serial cable is high on the to-buy list
16:54:32 <ihope> Oops, forgot about the QU rule.
16:54:42 <GregorR-W> Yeah, that's the only problem with that word.'
16:55:46 <ihope> /(s?[b-df-hj-np(qu)r-tv-z]?[rlwy]?[aeiouy]{1,2}[b-df-hj-np(qu)r-tv-z]{0,3})*/?
16:56:31 <GregorR-W> Oh, I didn't notice the s at the beginning
16:56:57 <SimonRC> oh, wait, there's a * at the end...
16:57:01 <SimonRC> yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
16:57:37 <SimonRC> your regex needs some work,ihope
16:58:15 <ihope> At least I can now tell you how many syllables the word "English" has.
16:58:43 <GregorR-W> ihope: ... yeah, because the word English has a really ambiguous number of syllables.
16:58:45 <SimonRC> challange: make one for Ithkuil.
16:58:51 <ihope> Maybe-consonant, vowel, maybe-vowel, maybe-'n'?
16:59:00 <SimonRC> should be easier than english, as it has a formal definition
16:59:11 <ihope> Oh, wait, a syllable can have an 'e' on the end!
16:59:41 <GregorR-W> Now here's an ambiguously-syllabic word: Male/mail. Pronounced the same, but 'male' clearly has one syllable whereas 'mail' clearly has two :P
17:05:40 -!- cp has quit ("Lost terminal").
17:06:05 * ihope wonders why the Latin alphabet or whatever it's called has two ways to write every letter
17:07:12 <ihope> PeoPlE wiLl StIll uNDeRstAnD yOu jusT FiNe If yoU mIx AnD MatCH, bUt thErE'S STilL a CoRrecT Way tO Do ThiNGs.
17:07:36 <GregorR-W> I thought you were referring to c-k-q, ee-y, oo-w, ec.
17:08:49 * ihope wants a language with three such cases
17:18:09 <SimonRC> see some forms of english from past times
17:18:17 <SimonRC> there were effectively 3 cases
17:19:20 <SimonRC> there was a case you used for the first leter of chapter, a case for the first leter of all other verses, and a case for body of the text
17:19:48 <SimonRC> (Well, what else would one be writing other than the Bible?)
17:20:29 <ihope> By the way, does Unicode have a way to represent a lowercase letter 's' with an inverted circumflex accent over it?
17:20:41 <ihope> Or, more specifically, UTF-8.
17:33:07 <ihope> U0015D is close...
17:33:53 <ihope> ŝ <- but not quite
17:35:23 <fizzie> 0145? My code charts say it's U+0161, File f = new File(args[0]);
17:35:23 <fizzie> System.out.println(f.getParentFile());
17:36:36 <ihope> Yeah, but 0145 does say "caron", which is what I needed.
17:37:15 <SimonRC> the keystroke is alt+0145 in windows
17:37:33 <fizzie> U+0145 is Ņ, "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH CEDILLA".
17:37:34 <ihope> So now I can say what I wanted to say: "So cuon er so ailuro eu druki. Cuon ride še slušir misotém ailurei. So ailuro e arašó rizuec."
17:37:52 <ihope> WHY IS UNICODE SO LOUD?
17:38:12 <fizzie> It sounds more absurd when spoken OUT LOUD.
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18:14:33 <SimonRC> seen on slashdot: "Finding political speech on the internet is like finding poop in the toilet: it's easy to find, but you don't want to see it."
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18:32:12 * SimonRC gets an email from his mother: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/tmp/flags.txt
18:33:23 <GregorR-W> SimonRC: All American drivers in Britain will be required to display three such flags :P
18:39:38 <ihope> So how do words pop between languages?
18:40:46 <GregorR-W> <English guy> Hey, I don't have a word for that thing you give a prospective employer! <French guy> L' résumée? <English guy> Oui, oui!
19:07:41 <ihope> Well, I think it's easy enough to add infinite memory to BackFlip.
19:08:21 <ihope> % goes up (which is not the same as north) and ~ goes down (not to be confused with south)
19:09:00 <ihope> Going "up" lands you at a copy of the program, except with ~ and % swapped, and ~ does the same thing.
19:09:30 <ihope> That is, all "levels" of the program are the same, except that "odd" levels have ~ and % swapped.
19:32:13 * ihope wishes all the software developers were forced to use really slow computers for testing
19:32:57 <ihope> And by "really slow", I mean "having a processor speed measurable in kilohertz"
19:33:51 <ihope> And by that, I don't mean "hey, look, I get the 4194304kHz processor!" I mean 20kHz.
19:34:39 <ihope> Nah, that's too harsh. Let's give 'em all 4MHz.
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19:44:03 <lament> thanks to whoever put that wikipedia link on the banana scheme page
19:47:13 <ihope> Don't tell me Wikipedia has something on the grape and banana hierarchies.
19:48:18 <lament> anyway http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Banana_Scheme
19:48:46 <lament> but that link added by Orjan pretty much explains everything (i assume. it's too complicated to actually read :) )
19:51:47 <lament> - added Brainhype to the banana scheme page
19:52:42 <lament> now somebody should write a brainhype interpreter
19:55:04 <ihope> What language should it be written in?
19:57:16 <lament> i.e. you're allowed to use (H N <code>) for any finite N
20:01:20 <ihope> Next is ^], but I don't feel like typing that.
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20:08:10 <kipple> oops. I see I typed on the wrong screen :)
20:09:39 <kipple> nice to see someone got something "meaningful" out of it though ;)
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20:14:12 <sedimin> gotta study for the computer architecture exam ;)
20:16:26 <sedimin> how are things going btw? everybody at work?
20:17:29 <sedimin> neither here, but the american guys may be
20:20:32 <GregorR-W> I thought it was pretty obvious :P
20:20:53 <sedimin> well, what is then the tag for SimonRC? :)
20:21:04 <sedimin> I don't think it's the Release Candidate
20:21:05 <lament> i thought W was for Wacation.
20:21:28 <sedimin> or maybe @WC.. i know folks who take ICQ to the toilet
20:22:23 <jix> sedimin: http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/omgrofl/
20:23:44 <sedimin> but I don't speak ruby so it's like korean to me
20:24:29 <jix> in interactive mode it has tab completion
20:24:34 <jix> (if you have readline support installed)
20:27:40 <ihope_> So what's the L in "GregorR-L"?
20:28:07 <ihope_> And I'm not spewing gibberish whenever I use the backspace key, am I?
20:28:30 <jix> ihope_: huh?
20:28:46 <sedimin> we should decide about official extension for omgrofl code :P
20:29:11 <jix> .omgrofllolwtfloooolpwndlolroflmao
20:29:34 <ihope_> Does omgrofl already have a "pwnd" command?
20:29:46 <jix> one could use that to check for EOF
20:30:16 <kipple> yeah, it should have some file operations
20:30:35 <jix> pwn x will call file operation x
20:30:52 <jix> or should it be: x iz pwnd
20:30:58 <ihope_> File operations? Sheesh... you might as well turn it into a high-level language :-P
20:31:17 <kipple> why not? not all esolangs needs to be excessively minimalistic
20:31:26 <jix> well do whatever you want... i'll implement it..
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20:31:46 <ihope_> I like programming languages that are to one extreme or the other in terms of I/O capability.
20:31:47 <jix> oh and my interpreter gives MEANINGFULL error msgs...
20:32:15 <jix> i think that is something special about esolang interpreters...
20:33:02 <jix> if there is a syntax error it tells you the line and what is allowed in that place....
20:33:29 <jix> "Syntax Error on line 1: brb without matching rtfm or wtf"
20:33:37 <sedimin_> that's really better than just crashing or hogging up memory/cpu
20:33:43 <jix> Syntax Error on line 2: tldr placed outside of a rtfm loop
20:33:53 <sedimin_> I think of creating Omgrofl IDE
20:34:05 <ihope_> Shouldn't that be "an rtfm loop"?
20:34:48 <jix> whoops there is a bug in the interpreter..
20:34:54 <ihope_> Yes, but you're not saying the word "rtfm"; you're saying the letters.
20:35:00 <kipple> it's how you pronounce it that counts, and then it starts with a vowel. so it should be "an"
20:35:05 <jix> ihope_: i say read the fucking manual
20:35:22 <jix> and that starts with R
20:36:11 <jix> wtf lol iz
20:36:12 <jix> omgrofl.rb:195: undefined method `size' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
20:36:12 <jix> from omgrofl.rb:171
20:36:41 <ihope_> :brown.freenode.net 421 ihope_ nknown command
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20:38:51 <jix> argh there are some bugs in the interpreter
20:38:56 <jix> i really should have tested it...
20:38:59 <ihope_> Hee hee, I turned my terminal thingy green.
20:39:10 <jix> i'm going to fix them tomorrow or.. uhm....
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20:40:10 <ihope_> Error: too many sedimins. Please GHOST some, then try again.
20:43:16 <ihope_> I'd give you a Haskell expression that does that, but my arrow keys don't work, and that makes it Abosulutely Out of the Question.
20:43:51 <SimonRC> hehehe: http://www.panexa.com/ "Panexa. Ask your doctor for a reason to take it."
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20:46:04 <sedimin____> did you read this somewhere? :) Imagine if the State of the Union address were hacked because the TV
20:46:04 <sedimin____> station decided to save money by using Linux? Imagine if a
20:46:04 <sedimin____> stealth-bomber crashed because it's software was written by anonymous
20:46:05 <sedimin____> And guess what software Osama Bin Laden uses on his laptop?
20:48:14 <ihope_> So if I PING ihope :clarke.freenode.net, will my server actually deliver the PING to clarke, which will have a PONG delivered to me?
20:48:54 <jix> ihope_: you are using plain telnet?
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20:49:35 <ihope_> "Do not taunt PANEXA."
20:52:50 <jix> test [45m test
20:53:02 <jix> ihope_: hm?
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20:53:50 <ihope_> Do not taunt PANEXA...
20:54:17 <GregorR-W> Where did you get that particular line of idiocy from?
20:54:26 <sedimin> as I said. the sedimins are disconnecting
20:54:39 <GregorR-W> Nonono, "Imagine if the State of the Union address were hacked because the TV"
20:55:36 <sedimin> http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/20/linux-a-european-threat-to-our-c
20:55:46 <GregorR-W> OH, that Shelly the Republican thing.
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20:56:11 <sedimin> it's just good for the everyday amount of laughter
21:01:02 <jix> uhm thats satire isn't it?
21:05:02 <ihope_> It shouldn't be too hard to write an IRC client.
21:09:12 <ihope_> Is it okay if I don't implement CTCP?
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21:11:13 <GregorR-W> Why would you write a question mark.
21:11:36 <ihope_> I want to have an IRC client such that I know exactly how it works.
21:11:59 <sedimin> would you want to have a woman that you know exactly how she works?
21:12:46 <ihope_> sedimin: depends on whether IRC clients count as women or not :-P
21:12:59 <GregorR-W> sedimin: Yes, but when I finished cutting her up I didn't have a woman anymore :(
21:13:26 <sedimin> i would not count woman as an IRC client :/
21:13:41 <sedimin> and talk to other "IRC clients"
21:14:02 <sedimin> can also be killed, disconnected or set up
21:14:59 <sedimin> now i don't see why woman can't be used as irc client ;)
21:17:15 * SimonRC reconsiders the "jam every other day" argument in Alice in wonderlan in terms of different binding times.
21:19:44 <ihope_> I noticed that English has a missing grammar construct.
21:20:25 <ihope_> If you have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off, then you have an alarm clock ___
21:20:29 <GregorR-W> Really, any tense but present and past.
21:20:35 <sedimin> then you have alarm clock went off
21:21:06 <ihope_> You have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off...
21:21:07 <GregorR-W> sedimin: I don't even know what concept you think should go in the blank ...
21:21:44 <sedimin> is should be some kind of passive
21:21:50 <ihope_> Oh boy, you guys are confusing me.
21:22:03 * ihope_ stiches back to an IRC client
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21:22:05 <sedimin> so what about creating English++?
21:22:16 <GregorR-W> English with object orientation? :P
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21:22:30 <sedimin> but it would be backwards-compatible with English
21:22:48 <GregorR-W> ihope: If you have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off, then you have an alarm clock, the alarm time for which you know.
21:23:42 <sedimin> isn't it the same as: I had some food, and when my dog ate it, it was eaten?
21:23:43 <ihope> But I said knowing when it will go off, not knowing its alarm time.
21:24:08 <sedimin> yes, somebody might have set the time differently that I thought the alarm clock was set to
21:24:22 <sedimin> ->so you don't know the time.
21:25:03 <ihope> What's not a grammatical construct?
21:25:41 <sedimin> more specifically, the thing that should fill the gap
21:25:56 <sedimin> and if it fills the gap, so it is filler, not a gramatical construct
21:29:03 <GregorR-W> If you were inventing a tense, or type of word, or something, that'd be a grammatical construct.
21:30:34 <jix> LOL there was a picture of someone jerking off on the german wikipedia main page!
21:31:33 <jix> someone replaced a picture of Joseph von Fraunhofer witht that..
21:31:48 <ihope> What's up with pictures like that appearing on main pages?
21:53:32 <sedimin> w00t this rules: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2006/06/07/sonys_tiny_windows_xp_powered_micro_pc/
21:57:36 <ihope> Will "normal" Windows software run on it?
21:59:26 <ihope> How big's the keyboard?
21:59:48 <sedimin> but bluetooth keyboard could be connected
22:00:35 <kipple> if it's x86 it should work, but you'd probably need some custom drivers...
22:01:20 <sedimin> at least linux console will surely run without trouble with drivers
22:01:57 <kipple> probably needs a special keyboard driver
22:02:16 <kipple> the graphics and networking seems to be pretty standard, so they might work out of the box
22:02:22 <kipple> but what do I know... :P
22:02:27 <sedimin> but it features Intel graphics chipset, and also intel network
22:02:42 <sedimin> i think the keyboard will work like all keyboards on notebooks
22:03:31 <GregorR-W> That should run practically out-of-the-box then
22:03:44 <GregorR-W> Intel graphics are about the best supported on GNU/Linux in terms of purely OSS drivers.
22:04:13 <GregorR-W> Intel WLAN, not so much, but getting there :P
22:04:31 <sedimin> (not like my ati+broadcom+god-knows-what stuff ;) )
22:17:30 <kipple> fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfx3Gh7_QcY&search=sith%20emperor%20darth%20vader
22:32:10 <ihope> Time for a reboot!
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22:50:19 <ihope> So Wikipedia says it's not an indiscriminate collection of information.
22:50:36 <ihope> Where can I go to find an indiscriminate collection of information, then?
22:50:52 <ihope> "Wikistuff: the free indiscriminate collection of information."
23:00:05 <ihope> I guess what I'm looking for is "Wikistuff: the free *consolidated* indiscriminate collection of information that anyone can edit".
23:05:55 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:06:13 <GregorR-W> Does the information have to be true?
23:06:31 <GregorR-W> If so, it's automatically discriminate, if not, it's worthless.
23:06:48 <ihope> Well, there'll always be someone discriminating.
23:09:52 <ihope> "In this way you can paint a computer on your wall and if it's not powerful enough you put on another coat of computer."
23:10:40 <ihope> (The above quote is from http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Computronium. It is available under the GNU Free Documentation License--see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html.)
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23:42:10 <GregorR-V> larsivi|Zzzsaws off GregorR-W with his Zs :P
23:42:13 <GregorR-V> <GregorR-V>You sawed half my W off!
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!- larsivi|Zzz [n=larsivi@062016230103.customer.alfanett.no]
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!- ircname : Lars Ivar Igesund
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!- channels : #D.Tango #dmedia #trout #ddl #TitanKernel #d
23:43:36 <GregorR-V> #d is the intersection of those two channel lists, lament.
23:48:27 -!- GregorR-V has changed nick to GregorR-W.