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00:57:09 * SimonRC goes to bed, wondering how long ago GregorR-W released RXML.
00:58:13 <SimonRC> btw, since he's a conlanger, he should come visit #conlang
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01:27:02 <GregorR> Also, that channel doesn't exist.
01:27:58 <SimonRC> and, didn't you invent some (non-computer) lang and put it on your website?
01:28:33 <SimonRC> #conlang does exist on this network
01:29:46 <SimonRC> I thought you might be interested in a conlang-related channel.
01:29:51 * SimonRC goes to bed (really, this time).
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04:52:14 <khaladan> what's the most widely used esoteric language? i know that's something of an oxymoron
04:53:45 <GregorR> Some would like to think befunge, but IMHO it's probably a distant second.
04:54:17 <khaladan> how do you guys define esoteric? can an esoteric language be USEFUL?
04:55:24 <GregorR> Well, the technically correct definition for 'esoteric' is similar to niche, but as applied to languages it generally means that it's designed more to determine whether strange things are possible than to be usable. That being said, some of those strange things that have been tried end up being useful, so an esoteric language can definitely be usable.
04:56:10 <GregorR> Esoteric programming languages generally take some feature or set of features which are quite uncommon amongst programming languages and use those as a basis.
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04:58:53 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
04:58:55 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
04:59:51 <GregorR> Haven't added whirl yet :-P
04:59:56 <GregorR> Tell yah what, I'll do that right now.
05:02:01 <GregorR> This always crashes when I run through a proxy:
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05:02:18 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
05:02:20 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
05:04:31 <rabidpoobear> !whirl http://page.tokigun.net/obfuscation/_/file/99bottle.wr
05:05:40 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
05:05:48 <rabidpoobear> !whirl http://bigzaphod.org/whirl/kang-hello_world.txt
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05:06:35 <rabidpoobear> !whirl http://bigzaphod.org/whirl/kang-hello_world.txt
05:07:35 <rabidpoobear> !whirl http://bigzaphod.org/whirl/slarty-hello_world.txt
05:09:52 <Arrogant> I'm thinking that one of us should create an intermediate language
05:10:22 <Arrogant> Then we'll have more examples.
05:10:37 <Arrogant> I added some more conditionals to Synesthesia
05:11:02 <Arrogant> (p ) for positive, (e ) for negative
05:12:04 <Arrogant> So now the four builtin conditionals are: != 0, > 0, < 0, == 0
05:12:22 <Arrogant> Although != 0 is unneccesary...
05:12:38 <Arrogant> [blah#] is the same thing is (t blah)
05:14:19 <Arrogant> (t blah) does blah when current cell != 0
05:15:07 <Arrogant> [blah] loops blah when current cell != 0
05:15:21 <Arrogant> (oh, and # breaks out of the current instruction list)
05:16:04 <Arrogant> but the == 0 is (f ) for false
05:16:35 <rabidpoobear> !whirl http://bigzaphod.org/whirl/aviad/hello_world.txt
05:17:19 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Glass is better than Whirl."(_o)o.?]}
05:17:22 <EgoBot> Glass is better than Whirl.
05:17:29 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"(So is FYB)"(_o)o.?]}
05:17:35 <Arrogant> GregorR, what do the interpreters have to be written in for EgoBot?
05:17:49 <GregorR> It calls external interpreters.
05:29:06 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/736485
05:31:04 <Arrogant> (i name) seems out of place with the other uses of parenthesis ...
05:31:26 <Arrogant> All the other ones operate on code
05:39:47 <Arrogant> The language used to be Brainfunk
05:39:55 <Arrogant> And I never changed the extension ><
05:40:10 <GregorR> Even though brainfuck is traditionally .b :-P
05:40:35 <rabidpoobear> it's bf with added conditionals and subroutines?
05:40:45 <GregorR> I didn't read carefully :)
05:41:48 <Arrogant> But there're some things that need changing...
05:43:35 <Arrogant> Since it's the same syntax used for the conditionals and scope operators
05:47:17 <GregorR> Here's a thought: YOU SUCK HAHAHAHAHAHAH
05:47:21 <GregorR> Not a useful or constructive one.
05:48:12 <rabidpoobear> there's this War and Peace miniseries with Anthony Hopkins that's 18 hours long
05:52:47 <Arrogant> Luckily I can change the syntax extremely easily so the hardest part will be the concept
06:01:22 <GregorR> What's the source language?
06:30:55 <Arrogant> I've got a standard library that I want to go with it, too.
06:36:49 <rabidpoobear> ah there we go it was in H:\itemp\Desktop\python scripts\interpreters\whirl interpreter
06:37:58 <rabidpoobear> I had an I:\Desktop folder and a link to it on desktop so that I could see my wallpapers
06:38:22 <Arrogant> 25 / 5: /math//nums/ {20}{5}|>{5}|{switch}{div}*!
06:39:38 <Arrogant> Yeah, I'm going to leave it as it is
06:39:49 <Arrogant> its /math/ is to import math, /nums/ to import nums
06:40:31 <Arrogant> nums gives you {5} and {20} and so that you can easily create numbers.
06:42:24 <rabidpoobear> !whirl 011000001111000011111000001111000011111000001111000
06:42:24 <rabidpoobear> 011111000001100100000110011111000111000111100011001
06:42:24 <rabidpoobear> 11000000000111110001000111110011001111100010001100
06:45:16 <Arrogant> I screwed up {mod} when I changed math.syn
06:45:53 <rabidpoobear> you think I should write a language based on trinary instead of binary
06:46:16 <Arrogant> Something like Whirl only with 3 numbers you mean?
06:46:22 <Arrogant> I have no idea, I'm following the stack
06:46:34 <rabidpoobear> i was just reading the http://www.trinary.cc/ page
06:47:00 <rabidpoobear> idk how i could construct a language out of it though
06:48:37 * Arrogant rewrites math.mod from scratch
06:52:07 <Arrogant> The whole operation should be: x - ((x // y) * y)
06:57:33 <rabidpoobear> i'm naming my whirl intermediate language whinter
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07:03:19 <Arrogant> I'm basically defining all of math and stackops in Python as stack operations
07:03:32 <Arrogant> def mul (s): s.append(s.pop() * s.pop())
07:03:51 <Arrogant> Once this works I'll just take the operations I've used and it'll work.
07:05:35 <nooga> Arrogant: are u building a stack machine?
07:05:54 <Arrogant> nooga: Nope, I'm trying to write modulus in my language
07:09:50 <rabidpoobear> ill talk more in a bit, i got a grilledcheeze on stove
07:13:04 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!
07:16:18 <GregorR> Everybody knows that, by the way :P
07:16:31 <GregorR> There was an EsoBot-vs-EgoBot battle that I won despite my awful connection.
07:17:00 <GregorR> calamari. It's written in Java, and requires that the interpreters be in Java as well.
07:17:56 <nooga> the only wise hackers' choice
07:18:12 <calamari> in fact, a lot of egobot is based directly on esobot, so you could say it is just an upgrade
07:18:48 <calamari> and you have to admit the similarities
07:19:14 <calamari> because esobot did come out first :)
07:19:28 <calamari> but who cares, except you.. hehe
07:20:08 <calamari> esobot is gpl, so is ego, so it doesn't matter much
07:20:14 <Arrogant> Nah, I hate writing IRC bots. I tried once.
07:20:44 <GregorR> IRC bots really aren't that complicated.
07:20:48 <nooga> you pack whole irc functionality in one class
07:20:57 <nooga> and then just dispatch i/o
07:22:17 <calamari> gregor is an advanced ai bot I wrote once and let grow.. bet you didn't know that
07:23:06 <lament> what do you mean "advanced"
07:23:26 <calamari> lament: don't get upset, I didn't know as much when I wrote you
07:24:07 <calamari> afk to finish what i was doing :)
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07:26:08 <lament> what are those themes for?
07:26:18 -!- [bot]Zatao has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:27:08 <lament> "someone else's trash" as a theme for a game?
07:38:34 <Arrogant> It's just... I couldn't import math 'cause there was a broken one in the main directory.
07:38:40 <Arrogant> And I couldn't figure out why.
07:38:50 <Arrogant> {mod:*>*|<|{div}>|{mul}<|{sub}}
07:39:14 <Arrogant> stack.append(stack.pop() % stack.pop())
07:39:22 <Arrogant> See, it's even shorter than Python, it must be great
07:39:47 <nooga> i'm trying to write a program without any punctuation, in perl
07:40:54 <nooga> print uc shift split for qw w apple banana lemon w;
07:40:55 <Arrogant> Fibonacci numbers: /math/{fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}{add}))}
07:41:09 <nooga> Arrogant: what's that? where is the spec?
07:41:30 <Arrogant> Can't very well avoid the semicolon
07:42:20 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/736571
07:43:54 <Arrogant> stdlib so far is: ascii, adds ascii code for letters to the stack. asciip, prints ascii characters. nums, add an amount to the current cell. stackops, common stack operations. math, common math operations.
07:44:05 <Arrogant> Oh, and cmp, comparison operations.
07:47:35 <nooga> n u g operators ;d
07:47:57 <Arrogant> {fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}(n*>*[-<+>]<|)))}
07:48:05 <nooga> they often call me 'nug' instead of 'nooga' on Polish IRC
07:48:29 <Arrogant> I like Synesthesia. It is my finest work.
07:48:58 <Arrogant> I should do something more than fibonacci in it though.
07:50:48 <Arrogant> If I made it extendable in Python... hmm
07:51:31 * Arrogant goes to make some null-terminated string functions.
07:54:54 <rabidpoobear> if you have alist = ['a','b','c'] is there some way to do alist.pop('a')? would you just do del(alist['a'])?
07:55:10 <Arrogant> del isn't a function, it's a keyword
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07:59:51 <nooga> something wrong? :>
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08:05:21 <rabidpoobear> anyone know how fast I can send messages on freenode before getting kicked?
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10:38:27 <Keymaker> if i read file in "r" and use fgetc(), does it combine char 13 and 10 into 10 in windows?
11:00:38 <fizzie> I would think that's implementation-defined, but usually, yes.
11:06:58 <fizzie> The standard only seems to say that if you write something like "foo\n" it must read back as "foo\n", but it doesn't say how the lines are separated.
11:07:16 <fizzie> Heh, it even allows for "foo \n" to read back as "foo\n".
11:07:42 <fizzie> "Whether space characters that are written out immediately before a new-line character appear when read in is implementation-defined."
11:10:39 <fizzie> In some systems all files are composed of fixed-length records, and in such a system text file might mean a sequence of fixed-length (say, 80) lines that are space-padded. (And of course the reading program can't know which trailing spaces are padding and which are written data.)
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13:04:56 <Keymaker> my horrible smatiny interpreter written in c.
13:57:52 <Keymaker> "Hello worlor".. hmm, there seems to be a bug somewhere..
14:23:26 <Keymaker> ah, discovered the bug. problem is in the interpreter
14:41:16 <Keymaker> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#SMATINY
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15:37:48 <nooga> wanna see my newest perl hack?
15:38:00 <Keymaker> although i can't understand it anyways
15:38:10 <nooga> it is quite trivial.... and in some way...
15:38:21 <nooga> some way... awful ;d
15:38:32 <nooga> http://perlmonks.com/?node_id=551288
15:39:46 <Keymaker> as someone said "I'm sure it will be a classic in highschools everywhere."..
15:40:08 <Keymaker> i don't have interpreter in windows
15:40:14 <nooga> im damn proud heh ;p
15:40:24 <nooga> then i must show you the result
15:40:46 <nooga> though it's quite nasty
15:41:58 <nooga> here ;p dynamic length
15:43:24 <nooga> but i said, it's inspired by one guy who's sooo DAMN & HELL & DAMN MAD
15:50:34 <nooga> too much vodka on hackers' conference :|
15:51:10 <Keymaker> (anyways, i'm off to desert now, be back soon)
15:51:46 <nooga> you can't know it ;]
15:52:02 <nooga> but the vodka was called "Finland'
15:58:00 <Keymaker> ah, ok, no, i wouldn't know it.. i was just thinking if it was some big one
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16:24:04 <jix> moin nooga
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16:41:56 <nooga> http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4390/eutscheschwyenty7ky.jpg
16:44:51 <nooga> ekhm... "kind greetings in our motherland, pope"
16:44:58 <nooga> but written phonetically
16:46:11 <nooga> cuz when pope talks in Polish he reads a german phonetic notation
16:46:56 <nooga> and all Poles laugh at that
16:48:14 <nooga> Keymaker, do you know Loituma? ;p
16:52:56 <poiuy_qwert> what do you guys think: http://p-q.no-ip.org/hidden/new/index.php?page=main
16:53:54 <nooga> honestly (as a man who earns money from making www templates)?
16:55:09 <nooga> you'll put into it
16:55:28 <nooga> my 2nd was 1000 times more awfull
16:55:49 <nooga> check that out: http://p-q.no-ip.org/hidden/new/index.php?page=main
16:57:31 <nooga> i mean that: http://regedit.gamedev.pl/warsztat/ (it was a favour, so no money)
16:58:35 <nooga> how do you like it?
16:59:47 <Keymaker> nooga: no, i don't know him/her/them/it
16:59:52 <nooga> it is very simple though
17:00:17 <nooga> Keymaker: check that out: http://roft.ru/files/Loituma-Levas_polka.mp3
17:00:20 <Keymaker> hey, i like the look of that site
17:00:24 <nooga> this song kills ;d
17:01:18 <Keymaker> don't tell me you listen that stuff.. XD
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17:22:22 <fizzie> Still the incorrect ("L" versus "I") file name, I see. :p
18:07:12 * SimonRC grins at the URL: http://aesica.dur.ac.uk/exampapers/CompSci/Computer%20Science%20exams%202004/Logic%20Grammer%20and%20Software%20Tools%2010215101.pdf
18:07:24 <SimonRC> the intro to programming exam being called 10101101 cracks me up, also
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18:22:17 <jix> a period 3 ruby quine: http://rafb.net/paste/results/xM6F4c54.html
18:24:33 <jix> well it doesn't output the source the first time you run it..
18:24:45 <jix> but if you run the output from the output from the output you'll get back your source..
18:28:17 <fizzie> Wasn't there a period 3 C quine in IOCCC once?
18:29:07 <jix> yes i think there was
18:29:13 <jix> i couldn't do that in c
18:36:11 <jix> i allways start making such things when i should do my homework but i don't want to...
18:38:06 <GregorR-L> That's why DirectNet has improved this past week :P
18:38:21 <SimonRC> see my presentation I gave: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/quines.ppt
18:38:35 <SimonRC> you may also be interested in: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/Esolangs.ppt
18:44:45 <jix> SimonRC: .ppt sucks!
18:45:02 <SimonRC> there are programs to help you cope
18:45:12 <jix> SimonRC: tell me one
18:45:51 <GregorR-L> Actually, slideshows as a method of presentation sucks.
18:45:59 <jix> nargh i don't want to install a big office that won't run natively...
18:47:05 <jix> i just noticed that i have an old version of m$ ppt installed
18:47:17 <SimonRC> I'm sure there are OSX programs that can at least read ppt.
18:47:28 <jix> yeah m$ ppt
18:50:57 <SimonRC> poke around on http://www.rdpslides.com/pptools/index.html
18:53:28 <jix> i was able to open it using microsoft powerpoint i don't need any tools..
19:02:48 <jix> how do you english speaking peaple pronounce π?
19:03:31 <jix> we pronounce it like pee-pee ...
19:04:04 <GregorR-L> So that wasn't a wise thing for me to say XD
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19:13:32 <GregorR-L> Quite possibly the worst nickname ever :P
19:13:52 <calamari_> thats what you get for having a boring nick :)
19:14:07 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to grables.
19:14:33 <grables> See, I just named myself after a piece of software I wrotre :P
19:15:06 <grables> It's a scrabble clone designed for weird dictionaries (namely, libc symbols)
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19:46:06 * SimonRC things of algorithm for sorting in O(n lg n) time with just queues of queues.
19:46:26 <SimonRC> you hava que of unsorted queues, and a que of sorted queues.
19:47:13 <SimonRC> initially, U contains the input
19:49:35 <SimonRC> while U is not empty, take the top queue off U if it is not 1 unit long, split it into two halves (alternating elements, I think), putting the two halves back onto U, otherwise put the 1-element queue onto S...
19:50:19 <jix> the first step sound like O(n lg n)
19:50:27 <SimonRC> if S has at least 2 queues in it, take the top two queues and merge them, otherwise the single queue on S is your result.
19:50:49 <jix> uhm and where is the sorting?
19:51:20 <jix> yeah but that won't sort anything..?
19:51:23 <SimonRC> it's a variation of merge sort
19:51:39 <jix> yeah but you didn't do a single comparison..
19:51:48 <SimonRC> the merge does comparisons
19:52:01 <SimonRC> actually, I realise that the whole thig is fucked up
19:52:23 <jix> but why do you split it this way in step 1?
19:52:26 <SimonRC> you should take the input and turn each element of it into a 1-element queue...
19:52:41 <SimonRC> then merge the one-element queues
19:52:44 <jix> that's the thing that confused me...
19:53:11 <SimonRC> and the fact that S is a queue makes it n lg n, rather than n^2
19:54:10 <jix> but you could do a quicksort with two queues...
19:54:27 <jix> you could do a quicksort step with two queues...
19:55:15 <SimonRC> but appending queues is slow, whereas merging them is easy
19:56:19 <SimonRC> maybe not slow, but inelegant
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