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16:04:34 <nooga> oi
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17:18:28 <calamari> hi
17:18:41 <GregorR-W> 'ello squiddy
17:21:37 <calamari> hmm, /proc/kcore seems to be unusable
17:32:26 <nooga> hi
17:35:02 * SimonRC is appreciating Shelly the Republican.
17:35:03 <SimonRC> ... It is realy quite disgusting what some Democrats will do to discredit their opposition.
17:36:12 <GregorR-W> You say, as if Republicans don't do exactly the same.
17:36:20 <nooga> ?
17:36:26 <GregorR-W> It has nothing to do with the party affiliation, people (particularly politicians) are scum.
17:36:49 <SimonRC> I suppose so
17:37:35 <SimonRC> Maybe I am being a bit hasty in a ssuming that Shelly is a Republican-discreditation strawman set up by Democrats.
17:39:53 * SimonRC turns down his "Troll" dial a bit.
17:43:15 * SimonRC has a set of conspiracy theories that any detestible thing any group appears to do is actually a fake set up by their opposition to make repel people from them.
17:43:20 <SimonRC> see: the sudden end of F4J, implausibly violent anti-animal experimentation protestors, many cases of apparent "terrorism".
17:43:36 <nooga> BLAH
17:43:46 <SimonRC> :-D
17:54:04 <calamari> bbl
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17:59:05 * SimonRC finds out about the amazing way that God designed (as an example) the banana to be perfect to be eaten by humans.
17:59:08 <SimonRC> ...
17:59:27 <GregorR-W> FSTDT?
17:59:58 <SimonRC> ... Also that Einstein (a Jew) believed in God?
18:00:03 <SimonRC> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5479410612081345878
18:00:31 <SimonRC> in the interests of being more open-minded, I am watching it all, or listening, at least.
18:05:11 * SimonRC has never heard the "God of the gaps" idea demonstrated so well.
18:19:29 <SimonRC> Well, the most convincing argument for the existance of God they have is an irritatingly-ignorant Atheist.
18:19:42 <GregorR-W> Naturally.
18:19:50 <GregorR-W> Spin = teh fun
18:20:08 <SimonRC> Ideas like scientific proof escaped her lips.
18:20:24 <SimonRC> gah
18:20:35 <nooga> wtf r u talking about ;p?
18:20:49 <SimonRC> nooga: see above URL.
18:24:02 <SimonRC> Actually very interesting stuff, and handy if you are worried about confrontation-and-conversion-to-whatever-branch-of-Chrisitianity.
18:28:38 <nooga> hehe
18:28:45 <nooga> werid accent
18:28:52 <nooga> painTYR
18:29:41 <nooga> so
18:30:24 <nooga> theese arguments are idiotic
18:31:57 <nooga> all of them, ALL! can be explained by evolution theory
18:32:11 <nooga> the first car, was awkward
18:33:08 <nooga> first human was not so perfect
18:33:50 <GregorR-W> Why do humans need sleep?
18:34:03 <GregorR-W> Because of inefficiencies in the brain.
18:34:15 <GregorR-W> So, is God cruel, or just stupid?
18:34:52 <nooga> why computers need defrag ;d
18:35:14 <GregorR-W> Because of inefficiencies in the filesystem if you're not using ext3 ;)
18:35:23 <nooga> that's right
18:35:38 <GregorR-W> That's actually a very good metaphore.
18:36:59 <nooga> they were ext3 ppl
18:37:12 <GregorR-W> BAHAHAHAHAHA
18:37:39 <nooga> i heard about man who was bound to remember EVERYTHING he saw
18:37:44 <nooga> immediately
18:37:56 <GregorR-W> It's called autism, nooga.
18:38:16 <nooga> very aggresive autism in his case
18:38:28 <nooga> but he was normal if you saw him
18:38:44 <nooga> he talked, walked and everything
18:39:14 <nooga> but it was terrible to him to remember all those things
18:45:30 <nooga> i guess i'm an agnostic
18:45:45 * GregorR-W thumbs-ups
18:47:49 <nooga> eye was developed from very basic and simple light receptors 
18:48:06 <nooga> ..of simple underwater creatures
18:48:15 <nooga> same as digital camera
18:48:19 <GregorR-W> I love how everybody uses the eye as an example, because it was in On the Origin of Species.
18:48:37 <GregorR-W> WITH the counterargument, mind you.
18:48:49 <nooga> im afraid
18:48:56 <nooga> i don't understand ;d
18:49:10 <nooga> what do you mean "On the Origin of Species"? 
18:49:15 <GregorR-W> ...
18:49:25 <GregorR-W> Darwin's book ...
18:49:34 <nooga> oh
18:50:10 <nooga> hahay
18:53:47 <nooga> hm, a human is just another object
18:54:14 <nooga> like tree or even soda can 
18:54:28 <GregorR-W> More like a tree :P
18:54:33 <nooga> killing is just disabling that object
18:54:51 <nooga> just like disabling your cell phone
18:55:16 <GregorR-W> You appear to be forming an anti-scientific-materialist argument here.
18:55:42 <nooga> but beings are just machines
18:55:47 <nooga> very complex ones
18:56:05 <nooga> but still machines, some are concious
18:58:29 <nooga> and dead human is jus like crashed car, computer etc. but 'killing' cars or computers is less emotional process than killing a human
18:59:47 <nooga> am i right?
19:00:53 <GregorR-W> I don't know that the concepts are wrong, but I hope you're not making the implications that I think you're making.
19:02:21 <nooga> only psychopatic criminals can apply this to their ethical codex
19:04:43 <nooga> i guess that crying for help when someone wants to crush your head with axe is a reflex, jus like taking back your hand when touched something hot
19:06:52 <nooga> pain and fear are just to preserve beings (machines) from autodestruction  
19:06:54 <nooga> i guess
19:07:55 <GregorR-W> Instinctive emotions such as fear and pain have evolved from the need for self-preservation, which is implicit in the need to reproduce.
19:08:05 <nooga> that's right
19:08:56 <nooga> so disabling a being is related with causing pain and fear
19:10:52 <nooga> and if you're not psychopatic killer, you will know that killing is bad, because you are so complex to imagine that you are the victim and it is extremely unpleasant and that if you're dead you can't have any descendants  
19:11:22 -!- ChanServ has quit (ACK! SIGSEGV!).
19:11:31 <GregorR-W> NOOOOOOOOOOES
19:12:10 <nooga> and that natural knowledge that killing is bad is good for species
19:12:28 <GregorR-W> Reminds me of a scene from Family Guy (?).  This guy in prison was going to stab Peter, but Peter wasn't there so he goes "I wonder what this is like ..." and stabs himself.  "OW!  Is that what that feels like?  I deserve to be in here."
19:12:54 <nooga> ;]
19:13:06 <nooga> it must have been funny
19:13:45 * SimonRC considers the unmaintainable buggy spagghetti code consisting entirely of patches that is our DNA, and decides God didn't do a very good design job.
19:13:48 <SimonRC> :-)
19:14:15 <GregorR-W> Telomeres >_>
19:14:24 <GregorR-W> Worst solution to a bad copying mechanism ever.
19:14:30 <nooga> sure, try to write such long brainfuck program
19:14:36 <GregorR-W> "Every time I copy a chunk of code, I lose some at the ends." "So just put garbage at the ends!"
19:14:50 <SimonRC> Darwin's stuff is rather out-of-date, his examples are often bad ones, and his theory is by modern standards over-simplified.
19:14:55 <GregorR-W> Yes.
19:15:25 <GregorR-W> Part of why using the eye from his book is dumb ;)
19:15:50 <SimonRC> Darwin is like Copernicus.  He was wrong in many ways, but his importance was due to what he threw away, rather than what he kept.
19:16:02 <nooga> heheh w rzeczy samej
19:16:13 <nooga> => indeed
19:16:26 <nooga> excuse me, wrong language =.=
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19:19:05 <nooga> ChanServ's back
19:19:27 <nooga> ChanServ is back OR back of ChanServ?
19:19:58 <GregorR-W> "the back of ChanServ" wouldn't be a valid, complete sentence.
19:20:07 <SimonRC> Actually, they *did* have a point that (more convincing) proof of God's existance could be "out there".
19:20:36 <nooga> ChanServ wrocil LUB plecy ChanServa
19:21:01 * SimonRC puts a babelfish in his ear.
19:22:42 * nooga goes back to coding his compiler by hand
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19:24:33 <SimonRC> nooga: which compiler, and how else would one do it?
19:25:12 <GregorR-W> SimonRC: With YACC?
19:27:34 <SimonRC> Real Languages have parser combinators libraries.  ;-)
19:28:42 <nooga> i'm using a recursive parser
19:28:56 <SimonRC> ok
19:30:47 <nooga> blah
19:31:07 <nooga> my english is soooooooooo damn simple
19:34:12 <kate`> if you're after a parser for C, i'd recommend sid
19:34:33 <kate`> which is LL, but can tranform sane LR grammars behind the scenes for you
19:34:49 <kate`> (so you get the readability of LR, and the effeciency of LL)
19:34:51 <kate`> also, hello
19:34:54 <nooga> but it's fun
19:35:03 <nooga> hello hello
19:35:25 <kate`> what language was that?
19:35:35 <nooga> what?
19:35:47 <kate`> <nooga> ChanServ wrocil LUB plecy ChanServa
19:35:53 <nooga> Polish
19:36:04 <kate`> aha, dzien dobry
19:36:07 <nooga> oh
19:36:13 <nooga> mi tez jest milo
19:36:17 <nooga> ;-)
19:36:22 * kate` grins
19:36:32 <kate`> actually, i don't speak polish at all, just what's similar to czech
19:36:48 <SimonRC> ha
19:37:08 <nooga> that's cool
19:37:33 <nooga> zahlastana fifulka means a magical flute?
19:37:34 <kate`> afk, vitally important meeting
19:38:11 <nooga> well
19:39:13 <nooga> guys: am I right that we have a woman on board? x.X
19:41:44 <kipple> probably not ;)
19:42:30 <kipple> maybe kate is a male name in czekh
19:42:50 <kipple> or maybe not...
19:43:35 <nooga> it is not ;d
19:45:38 <kipple> what do you call a person from the Czech republic, by the way? czechish or czechian or something else?
19:46:20 <nooga> dunno
19:47:56 <sekhmet> Czech, I believe.
19:48:01 <nooga> "czech" and "czeszka" mean male and female from Czech republic, "czesi" means people from there, "Czeski" means a czech language and "czeski" a thing from czech republic ... in Polish
19:48:08 <sekhmet> Or not
19:48:14 * sekhmet re-lurks for another eight months or so
19:48:40 <nooga> to make it more funny "czaszka" means a skull
19:50:38 <kipple> sekhmet: you were right. (according to dictionary.com)
19:50:45 <sekhmet> woo!  victory!
19:51:01 <kipple> that was some quick 8 months
19:51:02 <nooga> i've got same dilema with Sweden
19:51:07 <nooga> swede? 
19:51:11 <kipple> yes
19:51:11 <nooga> swedish?
19:51:12 <sekhmet> I was actually going to look it up there, but then decided that it probably wouldn't be there
19:51:39 <sekhmet> kipple: You didn't notice, but the earth suddenly sped away and came back at near lightspeed, leaving me behind
19:51:42 <kipple> a swedish person is called a swede
19:51:57 <sekhmet> It's a wonder everyone wasn't liquefied in the process
19:52:58 <kipple> hehe. it appears a polish person is called a pole :)
19:53:11 <nooga> yeah south pole ;p
19:53:23 <nooga> and you can polish your silver spoons
19:59:39 <nooga> g2g
19:59:42 <nooga> bye
20:00:34 <sekhmet> I tend to have a lot of nervous energy, so I fidget and tap my foot etc...
20:00:59 <sekhmet> ... was having dinner with a few friends, one of whom is Polish, and it turns out I had kind of been tapping his shin under the table for awhile
20:01:13 <sekhmet> And when I realized it I said something about "oh, sorry, I thought I was kicking the pole"
20:01:23 <sekhmet> Everyone had a good chuckle about that, and it took me a few minutes to figure out why
20:01:45 <sekhmet> (fin)
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20:29:14 <ihope>  /join #esoteric
20:29:23 <SimonRC> :-S
20:29:24 <ihope> /joine #esoteric
20:29:26 <ihope> >:-D
20:29:34 <ihope> Hmm, oops.
20:29:37 <ihope> Oh well.
20:36:48 <lament> heh
22:07:39 <kate`> kipple, actually i'm english :)
22:08:10 <kipple> ah. my mistake :)
22:08:44 <GregorR-W> Woah, do I smell new person?
22:09:09 <lament> ban!!!
22:10:26 <lament> A russian person is called a Rus.
22:10:35 <lament> Hence the name of the russian toy store, ToysRUs
22:14:05 <GregorR-W> Um.
22:14:43 <jix> how do you call a german person?
22:14:48 <kate`> germain
22:14:50 <kipple> a german
22:14:57 <jix> not a germ?
22:15:06 <kate`> only if wallmart sells walls for martians
22:15:10 <kipple> not to his face
22:15:16 <GregorR-W> So, umm, there's a purportedly female person in #esoteric :P
22:15:22 <GregorR-W> This might be a first.
22:15:42 <kate`> there won't be for long, if it's a point of contention
22:15:47 <GregorR-W> Oh, it's not.
22:15:51 <jix> there was one female person here that thought this was about esoteric and not esoteric programming.. 
22:15:54 <GregorR-W> I'm just surprised.
22:15:55 <jix> iirc
22:15:59 <GregorR-W> We've looked in to it in the past.
22:16:02 <GregorR-W> Oh right.
22:16:11 <GregorR-W> Hahahah, she asked about psychic connections and such XD
22:16:18 <GregorR-W> I forgot about that.
22:16:40 <kate`> programing languages and other interests are mutually exclusive?
22:16:47 <GregorR-W> Also, hi kate`!
22:16:55 <kate`> greetings :)
22:17:08 <GregorR-W> I would make EgoBot say hi but it's down >_>
22:17:19 <GregorR-W> So I'll just give the command and we can imagine it said something:
22:17:25 <kate`> i have to ask - what's it written in?
22:17:30 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hi kate`!"(_o)o.?]}
22:17:33 <GregorR-W> EgoBot is written in C++
22:17:38 <kate`> pfft :p
22:18:02 <GregorR-W> EgoBot is written in PERSONAL_PREFERENCE({"C", "C++", "Perl", "Python", "Ruby"});
22:18:21 <jix> thou shalt not code c++ ;)
22:18:33 <GregorR-W> jix: I'm learning to love D in C++'s stead :P
22:18:38 <GregorR-W> jix: Slowly but surely.
22:18:55 <kate`> a funge would suit an irc bot well, i suspect
22:19:02 <jix> write it in subskin!
22:19:02 <kate`> being essentially a large switch-case
22:19:19 <GregorR-W> kate`: EgoBot runs esoteric language interpreters :P
22:19:40 <GregorR-W> Can't really be done from *funge unless you want to write the interpreter in *funge 8-X
22:19:42 <kate`> i see :)
22:20:19 <jix> gn8 everyone
22:20:34 <jix> i'm afk for 4 days...
22:20:57 <kate`> 'nacht
22:21:19 <kipple> sleep well
22:22:42 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:22:49 <kipple> so, gregor, what's wrong with the bot?
22:23:09 <GregorR-W> kipple: My home network sucks.
22:23:12 <GregorR-W> The bot works fine :P
22:23:19 <GregorR-W> Just I can't turn it back on from here.
22:23:44 <kipple> you need to write a bot that can turn on egobot when it goes down...
22:24:03 <GregorR-W> kipple: The backdoor into my system went down too :P
22:26:22 <GregorR-W> Hence why I'm on as GregorR-W from work, btw.
22:27:36 <kate`> which bit of intel do you work for?
22:28:11 <GregorR-W> kate`: IT, I maintain an internal collection of open source software across different UNIXen to be used internally.
22:28:14 <kate`> i think the only things of theirs i really enjoyed were the i960 and the SA110 (if i have that right - that recent strongarm)
22:28:19 <kate`> ah
22:28:25 <kate`> no bunnysuit, then
22:28:30 <GregorR-W> Nope :P
22:28:33 <GregorR-W> Not a hardware guy.
22:28:48 <GregorR-W> The Intel graphics cards are surprisingly decent, all things considered.
22:29:33 <kipple> they have graphics cards? thought they only did integrated graphics
22:29:39 <kate`> i'm afraid i wouldn't know - i desperatley avoid anything vaguley graphical
22:30:01 <kate`> (partially since i work for a digital signage company)
22:30:05 <GregorR-W> kipple: Erm, yeah, the integrated graphics [cards] ;)
22:30:18 <kipple> ah, ok :)
22:30:32 <GregorR-W> kate`: Digital signage company?
22:31:01 <kate`> advertising; those dreadful plasma and lcd screens we wish weren't in our fields of vision
22:31:20 <kate`> (i am not in sales, you might be able to tell)
22:31:25 <GregorR-W> Oh, heh
22:32:24 <GregorR-W> So have you ever got a Piet interpreter outputting debugging info on a digital advert sign? ^^
22:33:53 * kate` grins
22:36:58 <kate`> i think using R for demographic analaysis is about as exciting as that company gets
22:37:23 <kipple> R?
22:37:30 <GregorR-W> kate`: So what do you do there?
22:37:51 <kate`> kipple, an gpl'd clone of S+
22:38:04 <GregorR-W> kipple: Language for statistical analyses IIRC
22:38:50 <GregorR-W> Erk ... got an emergency, AFK
22:38:53 <kate`> GregorR-W, i spend my time waiting to leave, mostly. that time is filled with deleting our previous week's work, and architecting a new design for each specification change on my boss's whim
22:39:00 <kate`> ok
22:39:07 <kipple> sounds like fun ;)
22:39:44 <kate`> quite
22:39:56 <kate`> i just recieved a cheque for my work in december...
22:40:54 <kipple> ouch. that sucks
22:42:32 <kate`> they don't do any favours for the typical image of advertisers
22:42:48 <kate`> suffice to say, they care more about money than quality or happyness
22:44:48 <GregorR-W> *final fantasy victory music*
22:45:13 <kipple> emergency averted?
22:45:18 <GregorR-W> Yup.
22:45:23 <GregorR-W> Well, not averted :P
22:45:25 <GregorR-W> But solved.
22:48:01 <ihope> So the regex /(C(++)?|Perl|Python|Ruby)/ will match the language EgoBot is written in?
22:48:07 <ihope> Erm, wait.
22:48:22 <ihope> /(C(\+\+)?|Perl|Python|Ruby)/, maybe.
22:48:44 <GregorR-W> Yes :P
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23:10:56 <GregorR-W> >_>
23:11:02 <GregorR-W> Stable connection, ihope?
23:11:41 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
23:11:54 <kipple> I take that as a yes... :)
23:12:46 <ihope_> :-)
23:28:57 <GregorR-W> Grrf
23:29:12 <GregorR-W> This tool is so ridiculously simple, it'll compile on just about any C compiler that complies to any sort of standard.
23:29:19 <GregorR-W> But does it compile on HP-UX?
23:29:20 <GregorR-W> Of course not.
23:33:45 <kate`> are you using HP-UX's ANSI C compiler product, or the purposefully not full compiler that is included just for compiling the kernel?
23:38:25 <GregorR-W> kate`: Not when I can avoid it ^^
23:39:18 <kate`> i don't follow
23:39:24 <GregorR-W> I'm using GCC when possible, but it always tries with its ANSI C first "just in case it works"
23:39:58 <kate`> and you're sure that's the real compiler product, not the free limited one?
23:40:23 <GregorR-W> You do realize that the people who set up the HP-UX system used by Intel aren't idiots? :)
23:40:37 <GregorR-W> *systems, plural
23:40:47 <kate`> it dosen't hurt to check :)
23:40:51 <GregorR-W> Heh
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23:41:13 <GregorR-W> 'ello squiddy.
23:42:36 <kate`> GregorR-W, if you really want to find out what's going on with that program, try it under TenDRA - which'll give you references to whichever paragraph of whichever ISO states that its errors are errors, and why
23:43:02 <GregorR-W> kate`: I don't really care, if I had it my way we wouldn't support HP-UX at all ^^
23:43:11 <kate`> pfft :p
23:43:33 * GregorR-W huggles the GNU/Linux systems.
23:43:55 <calamari> hi Gregor
23:44:13 <calamari> (as he currently types in #freebsd)
23:44:18 <kate`> not that i wish to accidentally start the "my os is bigger than your os" discussion, but personally i much prefer hp-ux to linux
23:44:49 <calamari> kate`: your os is bigger than my os.. only 512 bytes :(
23:44:58 <kate`> :)
23:45:08 <GregorR-W> I'm also an OSS zealot :)
23:45:33 <calamari> I think I released bos under the gpl
23:45:52 <GregorR-W> calamari: I was referring to HP-UX vs GNU/Linux
23:46:02 <kate`> zealotry makes you exclude yourself from a lot of fun things, imo
23:46:12 <kipple> calamari: is it only 512 bytes? 
23:46:22 <calamari> kipple: yes
23:46:27 <kipple> not bad :)
23:46:29 <calamari> so it fits in the boot sector
23:46:31 <GregorR-W> Fun things I want nothing to do with, because they're proprietary things X-P (Circular logic rocks by the way)
23:46:34 <kate`> calamari, it fits into the ... right :)
23:47:20 <kate`> GregorR-W, that sounds rather dull to me
23:47:55 <calamari> kate`: ask him which Linux distro he uses ;)
23:48:14 <GregorR-W> Sorry squiddy, I switched.
23:48:21 <calamari> you got ridof Mandriva?
23:48:31 <GregorR-W> Yeah - they've been doing some political things I don't like.
23:48:38 <calamari> what are you using now
23:48:45 <GregorR-W> The distro from a pragmatic standpoint is solid, but they keep getting more commercial :'(
23:48:52 <GregorR-W> I'm using Debian.
23:48:55 <calamari> lol
23:48:57 <calamari> why not Ubuntu
23:49:01 * kate` smiles
23:49:07 <GregorR-W> Because Ubuntu is just Debian + no useful fixes.
23:49:21 <kate`> i tend to use openbsd or solaris for most things
23:49:24 <calamari> Ubuntu is the new Debian
23:49:30 <kate`> (most things being servers and such)
23:49:32 <GregorR-W> Ubuntu is the lame Debian.
23:49:46 <GregorR-W> They tried to make it easier, but didn't even improve the installer, come on.
23:49:54 <calamari> it installs fine
23:49:56 <GregorR-W> That's the #1 problem with Debian and they hardly touched it.
23:50:05 <GregorR-W> It installs fine: With a text-based installer that's not easy for newbs.
23:50:12 <calamari> easy enough for me
23:50:14 <kate`> i dislike the idea that all an OS is, is the package system and installation mechanism
23:50:25 <calamari> kate`: but thats the truth of it
23:50:41 <calamari> distros are all alike, basically
23:50:43 <GregorR-W> GNU/Linux often makes it hard/impossible to draw the line between "OS" and "user software"
23:50:54 <kate`> calamari, that's why i said OS, not linux distribution
23:50:59 <calamari> kate`: oic
23:51:21 <GregorR-W> Is just the kernel the OS?  libc?  The c compiler?  Other low level libraries?  The shell?  X11?  Gnome or KDE?
23:51:27 <kate`> frankly i couldn't care less what package system is in place, as long as it install packages and dosen't get in my way
23:51:28 <calamari> kate`: bos has no packaging system, is it still an OS? :)
23:51:38 <GregorR-W> kate`: LFS ^^
23:51:40 <kate`> calamari :)
23:52:56 <kate`> GregorR-W, you're still thinking in terms of grouping software that exists elsewhere together - that dosen't create a new thing, it's just a collection of old things
23:53:20 <kate`> indeed, KDE is a clone of old concepts, for example
23:53:34 <GregorR-W> I'm not sure where your train of logic is leading.
23:53:36 <kate`> there're no new conceptual inventions there
23:53:48 <calamari> kate`: programs are just a grouping of old opcodes.. so no softweare is new?
23:54:09 <kate`> calamari, no more so than new books being groupings of old words
23:54:17 <kate`> calamari, this is the straw man argument, right?
23:54:31 <calamari> kate`: no, I was trying to expose your logical fallacy
23:54:41 <kate`> calamari, feel free :)
23:54:49 <kate`> GregorR-W, it's leading to some sort of research, instead of cloning pre-existing ideas into new implementations
23:55:02 <kate`> GregorR-W, plan9 is a decent example
23:55:32 <kate`> calamari, i'm talking about designs, not implemenations - kde is a new implementation of old designs. i'm after new designs
23:55:50 <kate`> calamari, the same applies to every other level in the system
23:55:50 <GregorR-W> Still not seeing what point you're trying to prove >_>
23:55:51 <calamari> kate`: sometimes the old design is fine.. why does there need to be a new one?
23:56:03 <kate`> calamari, sometimes it is, indeed
23:56:26 <kate`> calamari, did you have anything in mind there?
23:56:41 <calamari> imo, os's could improve by becoming smaller and faster.. not by adding more features and becoming more bloated
23:57:10 <kate`> GregorR-W, that none of these really furthers our ideas; they're endless refinements and reimplementations of the same thing
23:57:18 <calamari> I recently installed networking tools in MS-DOS because it boots in 1 second
23:57:31 <kate`> calamari, i am not suggesting to add features to an existing system
23:57:38 <calamari> rather than waiting minutes for linux to load up
23:57:49 <GregorR-W> I think that refinements, reimplementations, re* can actually create new things.  It doesn't have to be entirely new from the ground up to be new.
23:57:50 <calamari> (old 486 laptop)
23:57:53 <kate`> (for the record, i can't stand feature-bloat)
23:58:11 <kate`> GregorR-W, in rare cases, i agree
23:58:21 <calamari> btw kate`, how did you find the chan? 
23:58:42 <kate`> GregorR-W, and it can be new within a given domain, too - that interests me very much (TenDRA falls into that category)
23:58:56 <kate`> calamari, lament mentioned it in #postgresql
23:59:51 <kate`> calamari, the sort of thing i'm talking about (which jon bentley calls "Conceptual blockbusting") is something like, say - the filesystem: why does that exist? files are a concept we could do without
23:59:57 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("And then, Gregor left work for home.").