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10:16:58 <ihope> Time to retry my IRC bot.
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13:46:24 <ihope> It's successfully joining the channel, but it's leaving right after.
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14:39:50 <Keymaker> wait, i can't form the question.. nevermind..
14:45:26 <Keymaker> ha, found it.. i was looking for php's urlencode() but didn't know what was its name
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15:42:54 <calamari> Keymaker: PHP's online docs are good.. http://www.php.net/manual/en
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16:23:56 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
16:23:58 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
16:24:12 <Sgeo> ~bf http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/hanoi.bf
16:24:16 <Sgeo> !bf http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/hanoi.bf
16:24:33 <EgoBot> bf/, glass/, linguine/
16:24:37 <EgoBot> [H[2J[2;27HTowers of Hanoi in Brainf*ck[3;15HWritten by Clifford Wolf <http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/>[14;43H-----------------------------------[24;23H-----------------------------------[14;3H-----------------------------------[13;3HxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx[12;5HxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx[11;7HxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx[10;9HxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx[9;
16:25:04 <ihope_> Was that supposed to happen?
16:25:23 <Sgeo> My IRC client doesn't like what EgoBot's sending it
16:25:36 <Sgeo> Although that program is (supposedly) a semi-graphical console application
16:25:42 -!- EagleBot has joined.
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16:26:37 <Sgeo> Why didn't !ps work?
16:28:42 * Sgeo hopes he didn't break his comp :/
16:41:46 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
16:41:48 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
16:42:26 <GregorR> You sure are into raping poor EgoBot.
16:44:16 <Sgeo> !bf_txtgen test
16:44:30 <EgoBot> 54 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+. [355]
16:44:36 <ihope_> ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection Timed Out)
16:44:43 <ihope_> It's not supposed to do that!
16:45:38 <ihope_> It's not supposed to ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection Timed Out).
16:49:23 <ihope_> NOTICE AUTH :*** Looking up your hostname...
16:49:26 <ihope_> USER EagleBot Null Null :EagleBot
16:49:27 <ihope_> PRIVMSG NickServ :IDENTIFY [censored]
16:49:30 <ihope_> ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection Timed Out)
16:53:44 <Keymaker> currently 999,954 articles at english wikipedia..
17:00:57 -!- EagleBot has joined.
17:02:33 <ihope_> The log is borked, but still...
17:02:53 <ihope_> Hmm, this won't respond to PINGs, will it?
17:06:43 <ihope_> Oh, it's only sort of borled.
17:13:43 <ihope_> Aah! It's not logging!
17:40:36 <ihope_> The log is not laggy but rather extremely laggy.
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17:46:52 <ihope_> That wasn't supposed to happen.
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19:08:55 <ihope> PING :brown.freenode.net
19:09:03 <ihope> PONG :brown.freenode.net
19:09:11 -!- GregorR____ has changed nick to GregorR.
19:09:48 <GregorR> I've found that it works fine so long as you're consistent.
19:09:52 <GregorR> I always just use 'localhost'
19:10:05 <GregorR> That is, if in the AUTH message you used 'localhost', use 'localhost'
19:10:06 <ihope> What about just PONG?
19:10:13 <GregorR> I believe the arg is required ...
19:10:20 <ihope> Ah. I used ihope for that.
19:10:33 <GregorR> Whatever message that is X-P
19:10:38 <ihope> After all, USER ihope ihope ihope ihope is easy to remember :-P
19:10:48 <GregorR> So yes, it'll want the "hostname" ihope
19:11:54 <ihope> Hmm. This here says that any positive number can be used as the base of a logarithm.
19:19:48 <GregorR> Furthermore, can't negative numbers be used for the base of a logarithm?
19:20:07 <GregorR> Oh, no, that's right. Can't recall why though :-P
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19:30:08 <GregorR> Is it just my DNS that's down ...?
19:30:16 <GregorR> Can somebody `host google.com` for me?
19:30:41 <Sgeo> google.com has address 64.233.187.99
19:30:41 <Sgeo> google.com has address 72.14.207.99
19:30:42 <Sgeo> google.com has address 64.233.167.99
19:30:42 <Sgeo> google.com mail is handled by 10 smtp4.google.com.
19:30:42 <Sgeo> google.com mail is handled by 10 smtp1.google.com.
19:30:43 <Sgeo> google.com mail is handled by 10 smtp2.google.com.
19:30:45 <Sgeo> google.com mail is handled by 10 smtp3.google.com.
19:31:14 <GregorR> Anybody got a nameserver they can loan me? ^^
19:31:24 <Sgeo> For DNS resolving?
19:31:29 <Sgeo> Can you use 4.2.2.1 ?
19:31:43 -!- EagleBot has joined.
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19:31:47 * Sgeo uses it, because his own DNS resolver thing fails a lot
19:32:05 <GregorR> Is that one of those IPs I ought to just "know"? ^^
19:32:08 <Sgeo> Although my /etc/resolv.conf keeps resetting whenever I turn on the computer
19:32:53 * Sgeo knows it due to his having a lot of resolver problems and asking about it in sine
19:33:52 <ihope> I think the bot should stop blipping after a while of running.
19:34:17 <ihope> I wonder how many blips it'll blip...
19:34:26 -!- EagleBot has joined.
19:34:50 <Sgeo> What does each Blip represent?
19:35:01 <ihope> Seven messages sent to the bot.
19:35:13 <ihope> Since it gets a lot of messages at the start...
19:35:32 <Sgeo> What language is EagleBot written in?
19:35:58 <Sgeo> No irc libraries or something?
19:36:22 <ihope> Wait... are you asking if there are any or if I used any?
19:37:03 <Sgeo> If there are any
19:37:13 <ihope> There's lambdabot.
19:38:21 * Sgeo pokes GregorR to his msg
19:39:38 <ihope> Now for a slightly less spammy EagleBot:
19:39:58 -!- iano has quit.
19:41:27 <ihope> Mmh. EagleBot didn't quit.
19:41:37 * ihope goes bang bang bang
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19:43:51 <ihope> Now I need to make this bot not notice NOTICEs.
19:44:05 <ihope> (That's quite ironic, you know.)
19:51:08 <ihope> Apparently it doesn't notice anything anyway.
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20:14:18 <GregorR_> <-- unstable network connection
20:14:53 <Sgeo> I suppose it wouldn't be appropriate to try to poke you back to sine? </ceaseless-plug>
20:15:04 <GregorR_> I'm connecting as we speak X-P
20:15:19 <GregorR_> I'll talk on that network if you get on DirectNet.
20:15:30 <GregorR_> Sounds like a fair both-sides-shamelessly-plug situation?
20:15:37 <GregorR_> http://directnet.sourceforge.net/
20:15:38 -!- ihope has joined.
20:15:58 <ihope> The bot's logging still isn't working right.
20:16:19 <ihope> Maybe I'll start again from scratch.
20:16:26 <Sgeo> GregorR_, except for the fact that Sine is IRC, and DirectNet is not.
20:16:29 * Sgeo still downloads
20:17:01 <GregorR_> Did you write the server code for Sine? I think that situation makes it more fair for me to shamelessly plug :)
20:17:03 <ihope> Ah well. I'll start from scratch tomorrow. It's bedtime now.
20:17:09 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit).
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20:17:26 <Sgeo> No, and I don't own sine or have special privs
20:17:31 <Sgeo> (Other than the autoop)
20:18:39 * Sgeo downloads the Gaim plugin
20:19:06 <GregorR_> Erm, I must mention that the Gaim plugin isn't particularly stable ^^
20:19:07 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:19:21 <GregorR_> It hasn't been a high priority for me, right now I'm doing protocol restructuring.
20:19:23 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR.
20:25:50 <Sgeo> How do I make a name and pass/
20:27:22 <Sgeo> oO Gaim crashed
20:28:09 <Sgeo> The instant I try to go online, Gaim crashes
20:28:16 * Sgeo eyes GregorR suspiciously
20:28:57 <GregorR> 18:33:50 <GregorR_> Erm, I must mention that the Gaim plugin isn't particularly stable ^^
20:29:44 <GregorR> DirectNet is a decentralized network - the only name and pass, if you prefer, is your GPG username/pass. If you don't want to use GPG, just enter any username, no pass.
20:33:30 <Sgeo> Am I supposed to use the "dumb" one, or the "fltk" one?
20:33:59 <Sgeo> Also, when I just click Ok, because I'm not using a GPG pass, it says in the console "Illegal instruction":
20:35:16 <Sgeo> Why did you leave Sine?
20:35:57 <GregorR> <-- unstable connection ;)
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20:58:40 * Sgeo watches self lag out of Sine
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21:26:00 <Sgeo> cmeme, is your nick supposed to be something from Lojban?
21:26:23 <Sgeo> But is that what cmeme is supposed to mean?
21:26:47 <GregorR> I donno what 'c' means, but a 'meme' is a unit of knowledge.
21:27:23 <Sgeo> "cmeme" is a word in Lojban
21:30:30 <lament> it means "the light mist that sometimes descends on the lake at dawn"
21:30:42 <Sgeo> I think it's a part of speach
21:31:59 <Sgeo> Ok, I think the word I was thinking of was "cmene"
21:32:43 <Sgeo> 22:02:33 <minus273> cmeme...
21:32:43 <Sgeo> 22:02:42 <minus273> something from lojban i rememberex
21:32:47 <Sgeo> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/scheme/05.04.30
21:33:06 <lament> lojban is still kinda ugly.
21:33:16 <Sgeo> 22:12:07 <arcus> zarchne: what is 'cmene'?
21:33:16 <Sgeo> 22:12:15 <zarchne> name
21:33:50 <lament> from chinese, presumably?
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09:57:05 <ihope> <CTCP>ACTION tries to see the future
09:57:24 <ihope> You know, it's easy to booch CTCP with PuTTYtel.
09:58:31 <ihope> Anyway... come fourth and fourth, flames engulf the old sites.
09:58:57 <ihope> At third and third, terrible calamity.
09:59:20 <ihope> Second and second, the hog plays a game.
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14:09:30 <Sgeo> When was GregorR last seen?
14:10:21 <int-e> [19:09:45] <-- GregorR____ has quit (Remote closed the connection) (2:15 hours ago)
14:18:53 <lament> and then they never saw him again
14:21:08 <Sgeo> So what time was GregorR last on?
14:23:00 <int-e> just before he quit.
14:23:34 <int-e> as for when he last spoke, I don't know that. check the channel logs. URLs are in the topic.
14:23:59 <lament> he last spoke about 16 hours ago
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16:11:16 * calamari predicts that Gregor is about to spend much more time at school now
16:12:01 <calamari> know of any Linux binary emulators (for when a binary is compield for a different cpu) ?
16:13:09 <calamari> seems liek I remember seeing an emu that translated the prog, but I can't remember its name
16:13:32 <GregorR-L> Erm, it actually compiled code for one arch into code for another?
16:13:50 <GregorR-L> Or wait ... I don't think it supports x86-64 target usermode ...
16:14:08 <SimonRC> qemu basically JITs things
16:14:22 <calamari> and bintrans doesn't support 64 either.. okay :)
16:14:41 <SimonRC> I believe the traditional way to do it is recompiling/
16:14:59 <calamari> SimonRC: oh, of course.. no source tho
16:15:23 <SimonRC> Urk! A Linux app *without* source?!?!
16:15:42 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to GNUregorR.
16:15:43 <SimonRC> what strange contraption is this?
16:15:45 <calamari> yeah, its the reference receiver for a networking course app
16:16:03 <calamari> so I need to make my sender work with it
16:16:09 <GNUregorR> Oh, I guess it sorta-kinda makes sense if it's a reference implementation you're supposed to mimick ...
16:16:13 <calamari> and then write a receiver as well
16:16:34 <calamari> heh, he didn't strip the binary
16:16:51 <GNUregorR> If he compiled with -g, you win ^^
16:17:50 * GNUregorR tries to recall ... I think objdump can give it to you somehow ...
16:18:00 <calamari> This GDB was configured as "x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu"...(no debugging symbols found)
16:25:41 <wooby> i am amazed by c2bf
16:26:15 <Sgeo> I just learned about bfc yesterday, now there's something better?
16:26:22 <wooby> project of GNUregorR upon which i recently stumbled
16:26:43 * Sgeo worships GNUregorR even more
16:26:58 <wooby> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brainfuck/c2bf/
16:27:13 <SimonRC> Sgeo: yep, c2bf translates C into brainfuck!
16:28:35 <Sgeo> Do I have to give up usage of bfc now?
16:30:08 <SimonRC> Whyever do you think that?
16:30:38 <Sgeo> bfc would be made useless?
16:32:42 <Sgeo> A low-lever C-like language for making BF programs
16:33:13 <Sgeo> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html
16:34:00 <SimonRC> Bfcomp is more efficient, I suspect.
17:08:06 -!- GNUregorR has changed nick to GregorR-L.
17:14:10 <GregorR-L> Hm, looks like bfc is far lower-level than C, just has a C-like syntax.
17:24:30 * Sgeo looked at the code, and it represents numbers in the BF code with a string of +'s
17:25:07 <Sgeo> As opposed to, say, the sort of thing at http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
17:25:48 <Sgeo> What does c2bf do?
17:27:14 <GregorR-L> But if you'd like to put the proper implementation in there, feel free ^^
17:32:29 -!- int-e has quit ("Bye!").
17:38:19 <GregorR-L> I'm off, I'll log in again in about 2hrs
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20:00:13 <GregorR-L> A truly fascinating conversation ;)
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08:58:49 * SimonRC has been reading slashdot:
09:15:03 <fizzie> That thing lacks the elegance of an ICMP ping packet filled with the string "+++ATH0".
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09:22:04 <SimonRC> fizzie: it's funnier on IRC, as everyone can see it happen, and can see who are on modems and who aren't.
09:22:31 <nooga> and who is on modem in your opinion?
09:35:27 <nooga> whoops, wrong window xD
09:35:46 <nooga> "no wiec?" is "so?" in english :>
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15:08:00 <RoboGregorR> for i in update upgrade dist-upgrade ; do apt-get $i ; done
15:46:49 <RoboGregorR> I finally have a "Hello, world!" of sorts ;)
15:46:57 <wooby> i want to prototype a board with a VLSI bf interp
15:47:02 <wooby> then i could write software for it in c ;)
15:47:55 <wooby> unfortunately real circuit design isn't conducive to the way BF works
15:48:00 <wooby> but a hardware BF interp would be incredible
15:48:14 <wooby> maybe something mechanical
15:48:37 <wooby> i guess it would work sort of like a mechanical turing machine
15:48:58 <RoboGregorR> The original concept behind a Turing machine was mechanical, wooby ;)
15:49:05 <RoboGregorR> In Turing's time they didn't have electronics.
15:49:06 <wooby> well, it was a concept
15:49:31 <RoboGregorR> But I have no hardware skill, so I'll just keep writing C2BF :)
15:50:03 <wooby> perhaps we will join forces and build a BF computer with a kickass BF os
15:54:26 <Sgeo> Wouldn't we want to use bfc for most of the OS code?
15:57:43 <RoboGregorR> If I get for loops working, I'll be able to write puts ^^
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15:59:24 <Sgeo> RoboGregorR, hmm?
16:02:09 <RoboGregorR> for (i = 0; a[i]; i++) { a[i]; asm(">>>>>.<<<<<"); }
16:03:18 <Sgeo> What's 'puts'?
16:04:46 * Sgeo is still confused
16:04:52 * Sgeo doesn't know C
16:05:04 <Sgeo> (I know enough to know about for loops etc.)
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20:15:42 <ihope> Does anybody remember me using -) as an emoticon?
20:16:09 <GregorR> That's an interesting emoticon :-P
20:16:31 <ihope> That's what happens when you PRIVMSG #esoteric :-)
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21:13:38 <GregorR> heatsink, you haven't been here in a while.
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21:15:59 <heatsink> I tend to hang out on freenode when I do more programming.
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04:47:37 <jix> moin everyone
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05:40:10 <nameless> i wanted to have information about creation of programming language
05:41:16 <nameless> i've got a project of language, but i don't know what is the easier way to develop it
05:46:51 <kipple> what exactly is it you need help with?
05:47:47 <kipple> designing the language itself, or implementing it?
05:48:33 <nameless> this language doesn't exist yet
05:53:00 <kipple> what kind of language is it?
05:53:23 <kipple> i.e. what languages is it similar to (if any)
05:59:12 <nameless> but i want to implemente a new method
05:59:30 <nameless> i want to use list to save the syntax
05:59:49 <nameless> a non static syntax if you want
06:00:16 <jix> sounds interesting
06:00:28 <jix> but i'd implement such a language using an interpreter instead of a compiler
06:00:57 <nameless> my first idea was to develop in pascal
06:01:23 <nameless> but i want to have information to know other method of development
06:01:23 <jix> and where is the problem?
06:01:40 <nameless> the easier way, the best way, the other way
06:01:55 <jix> i'd choose a language that is somewhat similar to the language you want to implement
06:02:15 <nameless> so i have to learn lisp ... arf
06:02:21 <kipple> LISP is very good for doing dynamic stuff like that...
06:02:43 <jix> nah... LISP isn't the only language that is able to do dynamic list stuff
06:03:07 <kipple> I guess some of the newer langs like haskell or ruby would also be fine
06:03:18 <jix> yeah but haskell isn't good for imperative languages....
06:03:24 <jix> i'd choose ruby
06:05:29 <jix> nameless: it's a mix of perl python smalltalk and something new
06:05:46 <jix> it's easy to learn and is Object Orientated
06:06:04 <jix> has dynamic arrays, bignums and everything
06:06:49 <jix> nameless: http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/ << this is a good tutorial
06:07:42 <nameless> do you know if exist a ruby and lisp compilator on ubuntu ?N
06:07:48 <jix> ruby isn't compiled
06:07:51 <jix> ruby is intepreted
06:08:04 <jix> and yes the ruby interpreter should be in the ubuntu package system
06:08:42 <jix> and if you decide to use lisp i'd use SBCL but i don't know wether it's in the ubunto package system
06:09:01 <jix> Steel Bank Common Lisp
06:15:47 <nameless> do u know the name of the list packet on ubuntu ?
06:16:10 <nameless> i search on synaptic (packet gestionnar) but i have many packet
06:19:40 <jix> nameless: oh and a good lisp tutorial: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
06:21:04 <nameless> i'll give you information when my DSLC (Dynamic Syntax Language Compiler) will be finish :)
06:28:28 <nameless> how can i wrote on screen a what contain's ruby's variable ?
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10:11:29 <ihope> My IRC bot isn't finished.
10:11:57 <ihope> Now I have to use enumerated types for things that enumerated types should be used for.
10:12:47 <nooga> i'm writing lambda calculus evaluator as a core of sadol ]|[
10:18:47 <ihope> How would these lambda thingies be represented?
10:21:29 <ihope> I mean internally, by the compiler/interpreter.
10:23:18 <nooga> oh, i'm working on it ;p
10:23:47 <ihope> You could parse it into SKI calculus.
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10:35:34 <ihope> Blum blum shub ding-a-ling prung...
10:37:19 <ihope> I can't figure out how to represent SKI calculus in SADOL ;-)
10:37:48 <nooga> but SADOL ]|[ can be different from previous
10:47:28 <ihope> "I see," said the blind man as he spit into the wind. "It's all coming back to me now..."
10:49:15 <ihope> "I see," said the blind man as he spit into the wind. "It's all coming back to me now..."
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11:24:05 <fuse> i got to brag and boast about this to someone
11:24:08 <fuse> really, it's killing me
11:24:15 <fuse> I WON THE 18TH IOCCC
11:24:26 <fuse> there, i said it. thanks for your attention.
11:24:58 <fuse> i feel much better now
11:25:06 <nooga> really, i tried to write Obfusc. C proggy
11:25:18 <fuse> i'll probably have to use a different nickname from now on
11:25:46 <fuse> so are you interested in esoteric programming languages, nooga?
11:26:35 <nooga> yea, even invented one language
11:26:57 <fuse> cool, how does it look like?
11:27:02 <fuse> got an interpreter
11:27:49 <fuse> maybe he means "wait"
11:29:20 <nooga> http://rafb.net/paste/results/E1eSiP45.html << whis is my obfuscated c attempt ;p (only header actually)
11:29:48 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/SADOL << here's my eso lang
11:31:00 <nooga> http://rafb.net/paste/results/YvYKS271.html << and this is unfinished rest of this obfuscated proggy :/
11:31:28 <fuse> the first one looks readable with gcc -E :)
11:32:39 <nooga> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-sadol-989.html :>
11:34:17 <fuse> my ioccc entry: http://www.fzort.org/mpr/hacks/mpr-ioccc-2005.c.txt
11:36:32 <fuse> ... and the corresponding remarks file: http://www.fzort.org/mpr/hacks/mpr-ioccc-2005.remarks.txt
11:37:54 * ihope tests to see how good whatever compression algorithm
11:38:12 <fuse> it has zero compression
11:38:41 <fuse> in fact, it performs negative compression
11:39:54 <fuse> i tried to implement run-length encoding, but there was no way to make the code fit within the required size constraints
11:40:28 <fuse> so i just left it out
11:40:40 <ihope> Now, should I write that Malbolge "Hello, world!" program now or later?
11:41:09 <fuse> i think someone already did that :)
11:41:39 <nooga> fuse: can you write an obfuscated quine in C?
11:42:10 <fuse> nooga: here's one i wrote a while ago: http://fuse.superglue.se/life.c.txt
11:42:57 <fuse> nooga: it's not technically a quine, since the output doesn't look exactly like the original program
11:43:05 <fuse> nooga: it's close though
11:43:11 <nooga> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
11:43:23 <nooga> now, here's a SADOL quine, already obfuscated :>
11:44:45 * jix has to write a rhotor quine
11:45:26 <nooga> jix: do you have an idea how to write rhotor interpreter in strictly imperative language? :p
11:46:21 <fuse> nooga: a bunch of quines: http://fuse.superglue.se/quines.txt
11:46:30 <nooga> even you can implement lazy evaluation -.-'
11:46:51 <fuse> what's rhotor, excuse my ignorance?
11:47:11 <nooga> a language invented by jix
11:47:31 <nooga> fuse: u r real C hacker... never saw one ;]
11:50:54 <nooga> lol, por que you gave your root pasword on your homepage? hm?
11:51:11 <fuse> i don't believe in passwords
11:52:31 <nooga> and that's the reason? ;p
11:52:45 <fuse> yeah. pwn my computer!
11:54:01 * fuse browses esolangs.org
11:55:42 <nooga> i feel confused and tricked
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12:14:08 <jix> !rhotor <r,y/x/r<s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>\q/<%34>,r<s,<%92>,b/<%92>,<%92>,<s.s,b>\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>\p/<%34>,<%44>,<%60>,<%62>,<%10>,<>>,y>,y><s,a/s.s,a>,%"<r,y/x/r<s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>\\q/<%34>,r<s,<%92>,b/<%92>,<%92>,<s.s,b>\\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>\\p/<%34>,<%44>,<%60>,<%62>,<%10>,<>>,y>,y><s,a/s.s,a>,%",<>
12:14:29 <jix> that's my quine
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13:19:54 <jix> SimonRC: euch?
13:26:14 <SimonRC> Does rhotor *really* use improper lists or is that a mistake in the wiki?
13:27:20 <jix> improper lists?
13:28:24 <jix> well it doesn't use lists at all.. rhotor uses cons.... and your program uses them to implement some kind of list
13:28:51 <jix> but IO is done with proper lists
13:29:12 <jix> ah and yes the default syntax creates inproper lists
13:31:57 <SimonRC> The wiki says: "Strings are written as <byte1>,<byte2>...<byteN>."
13:32:22 <SimonRC> rather than: "Strings are written as <byte1>,<byte2>...<byteN>,<>"
13:32:28 <jix> hmm yes you're right
13:32:35 <jix> BUT the %"test" syntax creates improper lists
13:33:02 <jix> so you'd have to write %"test",<> for a proper list
13:33:33 <jix> feel free to fix that
13:34:01 <SimonRC> You were inspired by Shakell, yes?
13:34:19 <SimonRC> Though you used more than one file, unlike me.
13:34:28 <jix> i wasn't inspired by shakell
13:34:56 <jix> SimonRC: TABS?!
13:35:10 <jix> tell me i didn't used tabs.. i never use them
13:35:23 <jix> but i never changed the default for haskell D'OH
13:37:19 <SimonRC> You used 4-space tabs (4 spaces == nice indent), but emacs is configured for 8-space-tabs.
13:37:50 <SimonRC> Probably because you aren't supposed to use tabs in Haskell.
13:40:25 <jix> updated a new version with spaces instead of tabs
13:47:12 <SimonRC> Have you considered using Parsec, instead of rolling-your-own?
13:49:04 <jix> yes but i was faster writing my own than learning how to use parsec
13:49:50 <jix> but the result is very ugly
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14:06:26 <GregorR_> Give me SVN commit privileges!
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14:27:52 <fuse_> hey, what's going on?
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14:49:01 <ihope_> Arr, it be the underscores!
14:49:10 <ihope_> Aye? It be the underscores?
14:49:20 <ihope_> Aye, it be the underscores!
14:49:31 <ihope_> Oh no, it be the underscores!
14:49:39 <ihope_> Arr, it be the UNDERSCORES!
14:52:27 <fuse_> (Arr|Aye|Oh no)(,|?) (it|It) be the (underscores|UNDERSCORES)(!|?)
14:53:09 <ihope_> Oh no? It be the UNDERSCORES?
14:53:31 <ihope_> By the way, I think that should be (, it|? It).
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15:14:38 <jix> GregorR: are you moving c2bf to svn?
15:15:18 <calamari> btw, did you request the c2bf project?
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17:52:53 <nameless> can you give me some information about compiler
17:53:28 <calamari> oh, you mean writing compilers?
17:53:55 <nameless> about who is stocked variable information
17:55:06 <nameless> who is stocked MyVariable information ?
17:55:50 <calamari> are you asking where the information is being stored?
17:56:35 <calamari> is this variable created dynamically or statically?
17:57:03 <nameless> i'm implementing a dynamic syntax language :)
17:57:18 <calamari> well then store it in memory when it is created
17:57:36 <calamari> using a data structure that holds all the info that you want
17:58:35 <nameless> so i have to emulate the stack all things considerate
18:01:10 <calamari> what language is the compiler written in?
18:04:24 <calamari> are you compiling to machine code, asm, pascal, something else?
18:05:35 <nameless> i develop a new language with pascal language
18:06:42 <calamari> I'm not too familiar with pascal, does it allow dynamic memory? if so, you already know how to handle the situation
18:08:45 <nameless> "does it allow dynamic memor" => yes using pointer
18:14:19 <nameless> have you developped some esoteric language ?
18:15:58 <calamari> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jeffry_Johnston
18:18:20 <nameless> ho you develop a brainfuck compiler
18:19:29 <nameless> arf numberix seems really hard
18:20:11 <calamari> numberix isn't that special really.. I tohught I'd come up with something new (based on Wierd), then I found out about befunge later hehe
18:20:54 <calamari> unfortunately my shell is down again
18:21:54 <nameless> linguine seems really interessant language
18:23:47 <calamari> been coding an encryption routine in it
18:24:07 <calamari> eventualyl if I get far enough it can be used to play games in here
18:24:47 <nameless> is exist some real and complete language on wiki ?
18:25:34 <nameless> i quickly read some language from the esoteric list language on the wiki
18:25:44 <nameless> but i don't read a really serious language
18:25:59 <calamari> what's your definition of a serious language?
18:26:08 <nameless> i mean language where i can easily and clearly code
18:26:40 <calamari> well, many of the languages onm the wiki are turing complete, so they can compute anything that any other language can compute
18:27:20 <nameless> yes but i can't coded really with this language
18:27:23 <calamari> but usually if a language is too obvious or easy to program in, then it's not really esoteric
18:27:56 <nameless> so esoteric language is just for hackers programmers who want makes virus impossible to understand ^^ ?
18:28:35 <calamari> it goes to the definition of esoteric: designed for or understood only by the specially initiated
18:29:04 <calamari> so if anyone can understand without putting effort in, it's not esoteric :)
18:30:33 <calamari> hmm, that's interesting.. afaik no one has coded up an esoteric virus.. hehe
18:32:14 <calamari> most people here aren't into causing problems.. we want to learn different languages and ways of coding things :)
18:34:02 <calamari> I happen to enjoy minimalistic languages
18:35:32 <nameless> i prefer search new method of programming
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14:06:15 * SimonRC has been here for tht last few hours.
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15:35:10 <nameless> hum... i have some problem during developping my language
15:44:49 <lament> just ask - even if nobody's here, many people read channel logs
15:45:13 <jix> gn8 everyone
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15:45:47 <nameless> so i wanted some information about what exist of method to recognize a good syntax
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15:50:08 <ihope> I'm an operator at #:-( but not #:-).
15:50:46 <ihope> But I ought to leave #:-( until Despair, Inc. claims it.
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16:15:23 <ihope> What about EgoBot?
16:16:15 <GregorR> My network is so crappy, it would only stay up for ten minutes or so.
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16:17:19 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
16:17:21 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
16:19:36 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<]
16:19:54 <Sgeo> !bf_txtgen test
16:19:58 <ihope> !pager D o e s i t%j w o r k ?
16:20:09 <EgoBot> 54 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+. [175]
16:20:21 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
16:20:32 <ihope> !pager D o e s i t%j w o r k ?
16:20:49 <EgoBot> 35 +++++++++++++[>++++++++>>><<<<-]>+. [24]
16:20:51 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
16:21:08 <ihope> !pager D o e s i t%j w o r k ?
16:21:11 <Sgeo> WHat's bf_txtgen?
16:21:15 <EgoBot> 35 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>>><<<<-]>+. [15]
16:21:32 <Sgeo> Is it acually working?
16:21:37 <ihope> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>>><<<<-]>+
16:21:51 <ihope> And pager's working by my reckoning.
16:21:59 <Sgeo> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>>><<<<-]>+.
16:22:19 <Sgeo> !bf_txtgen !bf_txtgen hi
16:22:37 <EgoBot> 110 ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.++++.>>---.<++++.++++.----.<+.--.>------.<<-.>+++.+. [394]
16:22:54 <Sgeo> !bf ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.++++.>>---.<++++.++++.----.<+.--.>------.<<-.>+++.+.
16:23:01 <Sgeo> What do the numbers mean?
16:23:01 <ihope> Hmm...◙♪PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work?
16:24:08 <ihope> It's a BF program.
16:24:20 <Sgeo> The ones from bf_txtgen
16:24:33 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N s h o w s S i m o n R C%a
16:24:55 <SimonRC> Sgeo: AFAICT, one is the program length and the other is the number of instructions it takes to run
16:25:04 <ihope> Well, just a second...
16:25:31 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N s h o w s S i m o n R C%a
16:25:40 <ihope> It's easy to break, but there you go.
16:25:43 <Sgeo> Relating to bfc
16:26:02 <Sgeo> Butitwillhavetowait
16:33:14 <ihope> Guys!Don'tomitspaces!
16:33:32 <ihope> That'llmakeitimpossibletousepagerproperly!
16:33:52 <ihope> !pager HThrhuheh.h
16:33:57 <GregorR> !pagerButitwon'tactuallygetthe!pagercommands,soit'sOK
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17:00:21 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
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17:44:47 <calamari> !bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
17:48:53 <int-e> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
17:48:55 <EgoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EgoBot !hangman <word>' to start a game!
17:49:23 <EgoBot> _____ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
17:49:23 <ihope> Something SCARY just happened.
17:49:45 <EgoBot> xyzzy | :)>-< YOU WIN!
17:49:47 <int-e> sorry, just testing :)
17:50:45 <EgoBot> _ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
17:52:18 <int-e> single letter hangman is silly
17:52:47 <EgoBot> a |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
17:52:49 <ihope> You're guessing all the rarest letters!
17:53:28 <EgoBot> ______ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
17:54:31 <EgoBot> Already guessed `a'. Try again!
17:54:43 <EgoBot> t_i___ |-:(<-< [eaonsh]
17:54:53 <EgoBot> tri___ |-:(<-< [eaonsh]
17:55:18 <EgoBot> tricky |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
17:55:30 <EgoBot> ______ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
17:56:05 <EgoBot> Sphinx | :)>-< YOU WIN!
17:57:22 <calamari> you knowm the combination of your two nicks in conversation is hard to follow :)
17:57:26 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
17:57:31 <int-e> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
17:57:34 <EgoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EgoBot !hangman <word>' to start a game!
17:57:45 <ihope> calamari: whose nicks?
17:57:52 <int-e> ihope's nick isn't my fault ;)
17:58:02 <calamari> same length, start and end the same
17:58:04 -!- GregorR has changed nick to ingrate.
17:58:08 <int-e> anyway *I* have no trouble following the conversation.
17:58:15 <int-e> and I think ihope hasn't either ;)
17:58:40 <ihope> My name's easy to pick out because it's always bold black while everybody else has plain blue.
17:58:47 -!- ingrate has changed nick to incredibly.
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17:58:56 <EgoBot> _______ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
17:59:08 -!- calamari has changed nick to i-nte.
17:59:13 <int-e> maybe digits should not be allowed :)
17:59:22 -!- int-e has changed nick to `.
17:59:28 <EgoBot> Invalid character: `'. Try again!
17:59:37 <in-te> Whoa. A talking grave...
17:59:37 <`> aww. This nickname is owned by someone else
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18:04:56 <EgoBot> 3141592 | :)>-< YOU WIN!
18:05:24 <ihope> Probably not, correct?
18:05:24 <calamari_> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028840197
18:07:56 <calamari_> hmm,. the next few digits seem easy to memorize.. 693993
18:08:14 <ihope> http://newton.ex.ac.uk/research/qsystems/collabs/pi/pi6.txt
18:08:23 <ihope> !bf http://newton.ex.ac.uk/research/qsystems/collabs/pi/pi6.txt
18:08:51 <ihope> Still running, eh?
18:08:56 <EgoBot> 2 int-e: daemon hangman bf8
18:09:04 <EgoBot> Use: ps Function: display the current processes
18:09:38 <ihope> !bf_txtgen http://newton.ex.ac.uk/research/qsystems/collabs/pi/pi6.txt
18:09:42 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
18:10:16 <EgoBot> _______ ____ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
18:11:05 <EgoBot> _____e_ ____ |-:( [rsa]
18:11:06 <EgoBot> _____e_ ____ |-:(< [rsat]
18:11:10 <EgoBot> _____e_ _oo_ |-:(< [rsat]
18:11:14 <EgoBot> _____e_ _oo_ |-:(<- [rsati]
18:11:22 <EgoBot> _____e_ _oo_ |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:11:28 <EgoBot> Already guessed `s'. Try again!
18:11:34 <EgoBot> _____ed _oo_ |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:11:44 <EgoBot> ____led loo_ |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:11:56 <EgoBot> ____led look |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:12:00 <EgoBot> p___led look |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:12:02 <EgoBot> p_zzled look |-:(<-< [rsatin]
18:12:06 <EgoBot> puzzled look | :)>-< YOU WIN!
18:13:58 <EgoBot> _________ _____ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
18:33:42 <ihope> 8-(o_O:-) is legal Haskell code.
18:33:51 <ihope> It doesn't do anything interesting, though.
18:35:43 <ihope> 8-(o_O:-) = (-) 8 ((:-) o_O)
18:36:09 <ihope> I guess it won't actually work in very many circumstances.
18:37:08 <int-e> well, it'd be a strange Num instance
18:37:45 <ihope> instance Num (Monad m, Num a) => m a where...
18:40:39 <int-e> you need Eq instances and Show instances for that first
18:41:03 <int-e> and that's a challenge
18:41:21 <int-e> besides the instance wouldn't satisfy the usual Num laws. a+b == b+a, etc.
18:41:50 <int-e> it'd be a *bad* instance.
18:42:29 <int-e> no, the Num class is good
18:42:51 <ihope> If it's possible to make bad instances, it's a bad class....
18:42:58 <ihope> So every class is bad :-P
18:43:11 <int-e> I think abs and signum are bad and should be elsewhere.
18:43:16 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Glass rocks."(_o)o.?]}
18:43:51 <GregorR> Well, there goes that theory.
18:44:58 <int-e> !unlambda `````sii``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ksk``s`k`s``si`krk`k``s`kski.*
18:45:56 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
18:46:07 <ihope> Remember the !flush.
18:47:01 <ihope> Or !more <pid>, I guess.
18:47:05 <GregorR> Right now, my #1 priority is eating :-P
18:47:17 <GregorR> I'll deal with EgoBot in a while.
18:47:23 <int-e> I think the bot needs a line length limit
18:47:25 <ihope> My #1 priority is blood circulation. #2 is breathing.
18:47:32 <GregorR> int-e: It has a line length limit.
18:48:10 <int-e> hmm. then I don't know why it thinks it's flooding
18:48:27 <ihope> It's the number of lines...
18:48:46 <GregorR> It also has a lines/sec limit.
18:48:48 <ihope> Anyway, does ``ci`ci terminate?
18:48:51 <GregorR> I have not even a clue why it's flooding.
18:48:57 <ihope> ``ci`ci -> ``i[``ci`ci]`ci -> `[``ci`ci]`ci -> `[``ci`ci]`i[`[``ci`ci]`ci] -> `[``ci`ci][`[``ci`ci]`ci] -> `[`[``ci`ci]`ci]`ci -> `[`[``ci`ci]`ci]`i[`[`[``ci`ci]`ci]`ci]
18:49:09 <int-e> ``ci`ci doesn't terminate but produces no output
18:49:21 <int-e> the other program doesn't terminate either but produces output
18:49:30 <ihope> How would ``ci`ci produce output? :-P
18:49:41 <int-e> by running out of memory, eventually
18:50:02 <ihope> Does it accidentally compute the Fibonacci numbers?
18:50:58 <int-e> the other program does, that is.
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19:14:12 <ihope> As Hoplon (griech: = weapon) one designates the named-giving sign of the Hopliten .
19:16:11 <ihope> Welcomely in the Wikipedia!
19:16:59 <ihope> ...says the Main Side.
19:46:49 <ihope> In Long Beach, Louisiana, it's a violation of the law to hit a clergyman over the head with a floppy diskette.
19:47:23 <ihope> This one's better: It's a crime in Hoch, Illinois to protest naked close to a landfill without the express written permission of Major League Baseball.
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07:58:04 <SimonRC> The BBC are lazy gits sometimes. Compare: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4772552.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4778340.stm
07:58:07 <SimonRC> Especially towards the end, those two articles are identical.
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10:41:54 <nooga> where to get this cool sketch renderer
10:41:59 <nooga> btw. when i checked my clock today it showed 13:37 xD
10:42:20 <fuse> nooga: code is not yet ready for public consumption
10:44:47 <fuse> nooga: want to see it anyway?
10:44:52 <fuse> are you on some sort of unix?
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15:17:11 * SimonRC goes home. ["Sometimes re-inventing the wheel is the Right Thing. You don't see many cars with 3-plank wooden wheels around, do you?"]
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13:28:07 <SimonRC> bother, just missed fuse. :-(
13:28:23 <SimonRC> I found out what ports he had open.
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19:31:46 <jix> moin calamari
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21:18:51 <fuse> just implemented lazy streams in c++
21:18:53 <fuse> it looks horrible
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18:00:31 <SimonRC> twobitsprite: I have thought of a lang with no syntax errors: LISP!
18:00:57 <fuse> cheater, it has no syntax!
18:01:04 <SimonRC> All you have to do is make sure you splice S-expressions, and not just strings, and you should be fine.
18:01:30 <SimonRC> I know it was chosen for some program evolution experiments for this very reason,
18:02:32 <SimonRC> Oh, check out the experiments on evolution in redcode as well.
18:03:02 <fuse> redcode, is it that core wars thingie?
18:03:09 <SimonRC> Redcode is the machine-like language used for CoreWars, and the evolved warriors beat some hand-coded ones in a tournament!
18:04:04 <SimonRC> Google for the webpage on that experiment.
18:07:05 <SimonRC> That relied on a task that can be done in a huge variety of ways, and with a great variation in quality, and is not well understood.
18:07:20 <SimonRC> And has a good fitness function.
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21:06:36 <fuse> what's going on?
21:07:38 <fuse> coded something silly: http://fuse.superglue.se/lazy.cc.txt
21:10:20 <fuse> http://fzort.org/mpr/hacks/lazy.cc.txt
21:25:50 <fuse> ihope, why is that?
21:26:04 <SimonRC> Oh, wait, the first one loaded now.
21:26:16 <fuse> it's the same thing
21:26:24 <ihope> Well... I can't read that.
21:27:17 <ihope> I don't like imperative languages in general.
21:29:43 <fuse> i'm currently making an effort to learn functional programming
21:30:34 <ihope> What language is it?
21:30:42 <ihope> Or are you still on lambda calculus?
21:31:00 <fuse> both... i'm giving scheme a try
21:31:31 <fuse> i wrote that lazy streams thing after i finally figured it out in scheme, the first time i saw it it looked a bit like magic
21:32:25 <ihope> Tell me what ((badger badger badger badger) (badger badger badger badger) (badger badger badger badger) (mushroom mushroom) snake) does, will you?
21:33:01 <SimonRC> Lazy streams: In C++ they are ugly. In Scheme they are beautiful. In Haskell they are invisible.
21:33:29 <fuse> ihope: doesn't look like it'll do anything :)
21:33:42 <fuse> simonrc: mind if i add that to my fortunes file? :)
21:33:55 <ihope> I like invisible things.
21:34:53 <fuse> so should i give haskell a spin?
21:34:57 <ihope> "How's the memory allocation in Haskell?" "Oh, it's invisible." "What about polymorphism?" "Invisible." "Function currying?" "Invisible..."
21:35:04 <ihope> Yes. Haskell's very nice.
21:35:13 <ihope> Try EVERY language!
21:35:50 <SimonRC> I really need to learn LISP and Perl, and practice Scheme and C.
21:35:54 * ihope thinks he took the "oh, Haskell's not right for everybody" too far
21:35:55 <fuse> dude, i will, after i get to the point where i actually see myself using scheme in a non-toy project
21:36:54 <ihope> How's networking with Scheme?
21:37:19 <fuse> well, i saw nfs implemented in scheme the other day
21:37:43 <fuse> http://www.cs.utah.edu/~farrer/plug-nfs/plug-nfs.html
21:37:55 <ihope> Is networking with Scheme any harder/easier than with Haskell?
21:37:58 <fuse> a nfs server, that is
21:38:25 <ihope> My current Haskell "om u nead this" is classes.
21:40:16 * ihope is going to call the language Schemer from now until some time in the future
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21:44:22 <nooga> oh, cool, u r here
21:44:26 <nooga> just when i need you
21:44:54 <fuse> what's going on?
21:45:16 <nooga> could you say in your native language "and so are you! you french pig! get lost with your slick tongue!"?
21:45:26 <nooga> you're Spanish, right?
21:46:03 <fuse> er, not really
21:46:30 <nooga> no problem, just translate please :>
21:46:43 <fuse> "e voce tambem! seu porco frances! va' te catar com a sua lingua afiada!"
21:46:54 <fuse> that's portuguese, though.
21:47:06 <ihope> Portuguese is *almost* Spanish.
21:47:37 <fuse> it's pretty close.
21:48:01 <nooga> i think.. me hablas espaol, un poco
21:48:27 <ihope> I think "yo hablo un poco de español".
21:49:17 <fuse> what ihope said.
21:49:33 * ihope sets his keyboard layout to US International
21:49:44 <nooga> that's why i said "un poco"
21:49:50 <fuse> nooga: may i ask why you need that translation? :)
21:50:09 -!- jix has left (?).
21:50:51 <nooga> ah, my friend is swanking and insulting m e in french
21:52:03 <ihope> So which key is the AltGr?
21:52:35 <ihope> There we go. Ññ >:-)
21:52:38 <nooga> i was just watching some TV novels in which they were talking portuguese
21:52:56 <fuse> man, i hate soap operas.
21:53:48 <nooga> damn, i can't talk now, my language skills are lower at night ;]
21:57:40 <fuse> your language skills are fine
21:57:54 <fuse> be back in a bit, got to finish something for work
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22:06:57 <SimonRC> ihope: yeah, type classes *rock*
22:07:08 <SimonRC> They are duck yping done right.
22:07:43 <ihope> Say, is "duck type" a pun on "duct tape" at all?
22:08:20 <SimonRC> duck typing is saying "I will accept any object with these methods".
22:08:43 <SimonRC> e.g. "I will accept any object with a draw method."
22:09:35 <SimonRC> Which is fine until you pass it a pack of cards, whose draw method does something rather different.
22:11:06 <ihope> Say, in Java, is there any way to require an argument to implement two interfaces?
22:11:11 <SimonRC> "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck." is where the name comes from
22:11:36 <SimonRC> that's the 10% of stuff you do with Haskell type classes that you can't do in Java
22:12:16 <ihope> In Java, can you ask for a list of things such that the *list* implements some interface?
22:13:13 <fuse> what do you mean?
22:13:57 <ihope> Like Haskell's (Read [a]) => a
22:14:19 <ihope> It's any type for which you can turn a string into a list of things of that type.
22:14:30 <fuse> ok. i don't know haskell. i've done java professionally, though. excuse me while i go shoot myself.
22:14:54 <fuse> no, i'm not proud of that.
22:15:30 <fuse> heh, sorry. no, i don't think you can do that with java.
22:15:54 <ihope> Hmm, a bit of wonkiness going on here.
22:16:07 <ihope> ä man, a plan, a canal, panama
22:16:23 * fuse looks up "wonk"
22:16:30 <ihope> I guess I'll have to get used to that.
22:17:09 <ihope> I type "a man" and get ä man".
22:18:29 <fuse> what language uses an umlaut over an 'a'?
22:19:34 <ihope> But I know Spanish uses ü.
22:19:36 <fuse> assuming that's the character you're seeing.
22:19:57 <ihope> I can say things like "pingüino" now!
22:20:33 <fuse> portuguese uses that too. it's almost extinct now, though. too bad. it did add a bit of color.
22:21:11 <fuse> no, i mean u + umlaut.
22:21:26 <ihope> Hay un pingüino que se llama Gordo....
22:21:50 <fuse> i have a penguin called Fatso.
22:22:24 <SimonRC> ihope: Only the newest Java standard supports p"arameterised types".
22:22:46 <fuse> ah - /that/'s what you meant.
22:22:55 <ihope> Un día, Gordo ve muchos acentos.
22:23:18 <fuse> one day, Fatso sees a lot of accents.
22:23:49 <ihope> Oh, wait, you were translating? Okay ;-)
22:24:03 <fuse> hahah. no, i don't have a penguin. :)
22:24:18 <ihope> I think that'd be "there is a penguin", not "I have a penguin".
22:24:33 <ihope> Anyway... Gordo come un acento.
22:25:47 <fuse> oh well. my spanish is about good enough to order a beer.
22:25:53 <fuse> Fatso eats an accent?
22:26:27 <ihope> Él dice, «No me gustan acentos.»
22:26:37 <fuse> dice, "I don't like accents."
22:26:41 <fuse> i'm starting to feel like a bot.
22:29:37 <ihope> Después, Gordo ve tres diéreses. Él come un.
22:30:29 <fuse> afterwards, Fatso sees three... i don't know how to say that in english, but it's a sort of accent.
22:30:54 <fuse> are you making this stuff up?
22:31:54 <fuse> ok. i should learn haskell, then.
22:32:09 <fuse> is there a shortcut? like haskell for idiots or something?
22:32:40 <fuse> is this any good? http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/
22:32:51 <ihope> It "sort of" worked for me.
22:32:57 <ihope> Lemme dig up something...
22:33:42 <ihope> This is much, much better because I helped write it :-P
22:33:44 <ihope> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Haskell
22:34:49 <fuse> hmm, maybe i'm asking for too much, but is there a downloadable version? i have zero bandwidth at home.
22:35:29 <ihope> What do you mean by zero bandwidth?
22:37:20 <fuse> no intarweb at home. i'm at work right now.
22:37:27 <fuse> wow, ones = 1 : ones
22:38:23 <ihope> fuse: you know what : does?
22:38:25 <fuse> i had to write about 200 lines of c++ before i was able to do "struct ones : stream { ones() : stream(1, delay<ones>()) { } };"
22:38:48 <fuse> it seems to be something you use to make lists
22:38:59 <ihope> a:[b,c,d] = [a,b,c,d]
22:39:12 <fuse> ah, kinda like cons then.
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22:41:18 <fuse> i got to go. later. thanks!
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00:45:00 <ihope> So I have AltGr AND dead keys?
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01:10:45 <SimonRC> My technique for learning Haskell was a sort of Esme Wetherwax technique...
01:11:01 <SimonRC> I read every Haskel tutorial I could find for info.
01:11:45 <SimonRC> Using the ghc library docs page.
01:12:39 <SimonRC> The trick with monads is to read tutorials, look at the types, try to write something, look at the types, keep trying to push the concepts into your head so they all stay in at once, look at the types, etc...
01:13:11 <SimonRC> When learning monads, you go through 3 stages.
01:13:56 <ihope> 1. "Dang, monads are complex." 2. "Oh, I get it now!"
01:14:23 <SimonRC> First everything is very simple. A monad is a type of kind * -> * which implements the >>= and return functions with the right properties...
01:15:42 <SimonRC> Next, everything is very complicated, trying to fit [], Maybe, State Int, IO, etc all into the same mental category, trying to work out which operations can be performeda and which can't.
01:16:00 <SimonRC> Finally, everything is very simple. A monad is a type of kind * -> * which implements the >>= and return functions with the right properties.
01:17:03 <ihope> A monad is a magic container for values such that you can put a value into the container, you can stick a function through the container to act on its contained values, and you can turn a container of containers into a container.
01:17:05 <SimonRC> StateT :: * -> (* -> *) -> *
01:17:24 <SimonRC> but it's also a way of sequentialising actions.
01:17:50 <ihope> I've never thought of it as anything but a container.
01:17:50 <SimonRC> Monads were added to Haskell for the express purpose of creating the IO monad.
01:18:02 <ihope> Well, I must disappear now.
01:18:25 <SimonRC> before that, there was some godawful Lazy-K-like thing called a dialogue.
01:35:39 <ihope> What was the dialogue things?
01:35:58 <SimonRC> Like in Lazy-K (the esolang).
01:36:13 <SimonRC> something about [String]->[String]
01:36:37 <SimonRC> An awful system, compared to monadic IO.
01:37:18 <SimonRC> Actually, in ghc there is a RealWorld type, like that in, erm, Clean.
01:37:56 <SimonRC> It is related to the ST monad, and unsafeIOtoST, or whatever it's called.
01:38:32 <ihope> data RealWorld -- <wired into compiler>
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11:20:24 <nooga> valid SADOL code ;p
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12:40:20 <jix> moin nooga
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19:43:28 <fuse> what's going on?
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19:59:10 <ihope> GregorR's popping in and out.
20:00:02 <fuse> did you already program in some imperative language before learning haskell?
20:00:38 <fuse> how was the transition?
20:01:02 <ihope> Well, once you learn functional programming in general, Haskell's a piece of cake.
20:01:16 <ihope> As long as you have a good tutorial, that is...
20:01:38 <fuse> ok. i think i mentioned i'm currently trying to learn scheme. the problem is, i don't yet see myself using it in a non-toy project.
20:01:56 <fuse> and i heard many times how it's supposed to make you more productive etc etc.
20:02:02 <ihope> Well, choose a project.
20:02:18 <ihope> If Scheme's good for it, stay with it. Otherwise, find some other language.
20:02:40 <fuse> and i think i'm at a point where i grok the basic idea.
20:03:07 <fuse> ah well. i shall persevere.
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20:38:50 <ihope> SendQ exceeded? Oh noes!
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23:07:46 <ihope> Non-kipple drives out kipple?
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00:04:15 * ihope looks up the Spanish object pronouns
00:05:36 <ihope> Yo -> me, tú -> te, él -> lo, ella -> la, nosotros -> nos, vosotros -> os, ellos -> los, ellas -> las.
00:06:00 <ihope> Tenga la pluma: la tengo.
00:07:44 <ihope> Could I say "yo la tengo" as well?
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02:08:23 <ihope> A møøse once bit my sister...
02:08:34 <ihope> Similar to a Dëër, but biggër.
02:08:40 <ihope> I døñ't gët it. Plëåsë clårify.
02:09:25 <ihope> Cån she plåy høckey?
02:09:31 <ihope> hër sťiçķ håñdłiñg is prèťťi gøød
02:10:50 <ihope> I didn't write that.
02:11:25 <ihope> hër [sic] sťiçķ [sic] håñdłiñg [sic] is prèťťi [sic] gøød [sic]
02:12:03 * SimonRC feels sic of all these sics
02:22:44 * ihope ðóéß ßóµéþíñ åéí®ð
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15:06:08 <ihope> Is there an Unlambda function that, given some type of list of decimal digits, returns the appropriate Church numeral?
15:06:16 <ihope> And the other way around, as well?
15:10:55 <nooga> still trying to write lambda calculus interpreter
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15:30:24 <ihope> Let a = the smallest natural number that cannot be defined. We have a contradiction.
15:34:54 <nooga> jix: do you have some clues how to write lambda calculus interpreter in i.e. C++? ;p
15:39:45 <jix> nooga: yes
15:40:16 <jix> but i can't really explain
15:47:16 <nooga> ihope: i've always had problems with that
15:47:46 <nooga> in Polish we have just one "np." for it
15:48:21 <nooga> btw. s/i\.e\./e\.g\./
15:49:32 <nooga> jix: well... maybe you can say something to enlight me, i'm so damn stupid...
15:49:52 <jix> you have a tree like structure
15:50:13 <jix> and you just start to substitute the variables...
15:50:30 <jix> but you add an extra stop node when you substitute
15:50:41 <jix> to avoid substituting things that are out of scope
15:51:04 <jix> (you would need alpha(???) reduction if you don't add stop nodes)
15:52:19 <jix> i did it that way in my rhotor interpreter (which would work in c++ too but it wouldn't be lazy the way i implemented it in haskell)
16:25:22 <ihope> nooga: what's the period do?
16:36:28 <nooga> stands for any character
16:36:53 <ihope> What would something like s/foo/.b.a.r./ do?
16:37:22 <nooga> erm, good question xD
16:37:55 <ihope> By the way, what editor does this stuff come from? :-P
16:38:10 <nooga> it's a common regexp
16:39:29 <nooga> many things use regexp
16:39:52 <nooga> perl for example: http://www.troubleshooters.com/codecorn/littperl/perlreg.htm
16:41:16 <nooga> btw. they're often very esoteric ;p
16:41:43 <nooga> s{\b(${urls}:[$any]+?)(?=[$punc]*[^$any]|\Z)}{<A HREF="$1">$1</A>}goi
16:42:17 <ihope> That looks like Glass.
16:46:18 <nooga> are you under unix-like OS?
16:47:17 <nooga> if you were, you could always try $ cat | sed 'regular exp here' :>
16:47:55 <nooga> and i know what s/foo/.b.a.r./ does
16:48:40 <nooga> it changes literally all "foo" strings into ".b.a.r.", s/foo/\.b\.a\.r\./ gives exactly the same result
16:48:59 <ihope> What about s/.../.../?
16:49:09 <ihope> Replace any three characters with ...? >:-)
16:50:10 <ihope> So would "quux" be replaced with "...x" or "...."?
16:51:40 <nooga> you can s/.+/.../ so that any nonempty string will become "..."
16:52:08 <ihope> Does + match anything at all?
16:52:52 <nooga> it means: 1 or more times
16:53:04 <nooga> and * means 0 or more times
16:53:51 <ihope> So it works as a modifier for the previous character?
16:53:56 <nooga> so /a*bba+/ will match "bbaa", "aabba", "aaaabbaaa" etc. but not "bb"
16:56:03 <nooga> previous object, because you can /(a|b)+/
16:56:13 <nooga> try to read some tutorials
16:56:22 <nooga> regexp is very powerfull tool
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17:20:56 <ihope> So (-: )-: v_v is legal Haskell code.
17:28:03 <ihope> What does "sternutaphobia" mean?
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19:16:57 <jix> no it's evening
19:17:10 * jix codes php :(
19:17:18 * ihope pretends to read jix's mind
19:17:19 * jix gets payed for coding php :)
19:21:10 <jix> getting payed for coding makes jix happy
19:21:38 <ihope> I never get paid for coding.
19:22:07 <GregorR> I never get paid for coding.
19:22:14 <GregorR> I write too much Free Software.
19:22:42 <jix> GregorR: yeah but Free Software doesn't allow you to buy a new computer... :(
19:22:51 * ihope writes a simple IRC bot and charges $5,000 for each copy of it
19:22:59 <jix> ihope: noone would buy that
19:23:22 * ihope waits for the money to roll in (and waits, and waits, and waits...)
19:23:44 <jix> i get payed per hour atm
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20:34:31 <ihope> Ãww, Ì cãn't chãngë mý nìck tø ìhøpë.
20:51:47 <jix> ∑ª¥ çå~† ¥ø¨ çªå~©€ ¥ø¨® ~⁄ç∆ †ø ⁄ªøπ€˙
20:52:04 <jix> ⁄‚ å~¥ø~€ å∫@€ †ø ®€å∂ †ª⁄‚˙
20:53:25 <ihope> Üéß, Í ©áñ ®éáð þháþ, ßó®þá.
20:53:52 <jix> i wrote text with alt-key pressed
20:54:17 <jix> ∫¨† ⁄† @øø∆‚ ∂⁄ƒƒ€®€~† ª€®€
20:54:57 <jix> Å®©ª †ª⁄‚ ⁄‚ ªå®∂ †ø ®€å∂
20:55:00 <fizzie> oe? EURoe?EUR EUR j?? ?EUR-> ?oeEUR oe? ?EUR?EUR ?EUR? ?EUR oe ?EUR?EUR
20:55:23 <fizzie> For added-value, mine is recoded to iso-8859-1.
20:55:34 <ihope> But it has EUR all over it.
20:55:54 <fizzie> Well, it has recode_transliterate set to ON.
20:56:20 <jix> but everyone on this network uses utf-8...
20:56:23 <fizzie> ¥œ↓ ¶€œ¶ł€ ª®€ j↓šþ ł€→®ð· «Šœµ€ œđ þħ€š€ ©ħª®ª©þ€®š µªĸ€ ñœ š€ñš€·» --- was what I was going to say.
20:56:28 <lindi-> jix: not quite true :)
20:56:33 <ihope> Á µóóßé óñ©é bíþ µü ßíßþé®...
20:56:48 <jix> lindi-: i know
20:57:00 <jix> stop writing like †ª⁄‚
20:57:28 <ihope> Åéøøç åé´®é ßöéákíñg ðíffé®éñþ øáñgúágéß.
20:57:48 <jix> i can't read this :(
20:57:55 <ihope> I can't read yours!
20:58:25 <ihope> Quick, everybody into #íñváøíð!
20:59:07 <jix> the spam on the wiki is annoying
21:03:57 <ihope> I wonder WHY people are going this.
21:05:14 <ihope> Simple solution: don't let anonymous users edit for a while.
21:07:45 * ihope finishes his IRC bot
21:07:55 <jix> what does it do?
21:08:04 <ihope> As of yet, nothing.
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21:13:59 <RoboGregorR> That's right ... the network HAS NO FATHER
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21:14:36 <ihope> What's the word for a male dog?
21:17:38 <ihope> From Wikipedia: "Dog is also a term used by breeders to specifically denote a male domestic dog."
21:18:01 <ihope> The above quote is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.
21:18:21 <ihope> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights for details.
21:26:24 <ihope> Hmm, squit squit squit.
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21:29:21 <jix> i want to write a lisp like language vm in some esolang
21:30:06 <jix> lisp isn't an esolang
21:32:47 <jix> RoboGregorR: pha just because you arn't used to the lisp syntax))))))))))
21:33:18 <ihope> (sentence '(True))
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22:51:57 * Sgeo wonders if he should learn Lisp
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00:00:50 <lament> Sgeo: because it's Lisp
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01:45:17 <nameless> does a language who is not comprehensible cause the syntax but cause the programming method can be considered like an esoteric language ?
01:45:41 <GregorR_> Some do, some don't, sort of depends.
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01:48:39 <lament> Smetana is a great example
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02:36:41 <ihope> «A mí me lo gusta también.»
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12:10:07 <fizzie> Very good, but come to think of it, I don't really have anything much to say. FIN
12:24:33 <jix> SimonRC: i don't want to
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14:12:27 <nooga> lisp hackers are so annoying
14:37:12 <SimonRC> It is not designed for me to use.
14:37:24 <nooga> java is designed to be annoying
14:37:47 <SimonRC> Java is designed for the average programmer in a large group.
14:43:04 <nooga> coding java without intellisense(tm), and good IDE is impossible
14:45:00 <SimonRC> I think the Java3D api was desigend to drive me nuts.
14:45:11 <SimonRC> You can't even compose two rotations without having to give each one a name.
14:46:27 <SimonRC> You have to create the first, create a temporary rotation, set the angle and axis of each, then ask the first to multiply itself by the second.
14:47:20 <SimonRC> and of course, the methods to set the angle and axis return void, so you can't do this:
14:49:38 <SimonRC> "trans1 = new Transform3D().rotX(0.5).mul(new Trransform3D().rotY(0.2));"
14:51:25 <SimonRC> Transform3D rot = new Transform3D();
14:51:25 <SimonRC> Transform3D subRot = new Transform3D();
14:53:12 <SimonRC> Likely Haskell: rot = rotY (pu/8) .*. rotX (pu/12)
14:53:37 <SimonRC> where .*. composes transformations (like functions)
15:05:32 <nooga> hm... do you think that making function a type in sadol will help it to be functional?
15:06:14 <nooga> like :f~1+#_01 instead of ~f1+#_01
15:06:26 <nooga> and apply: )f2 {=>3}
15:11:37 <SimonRC> you will end up with a gazillion )))) in your program
15:11:51 <SimonRC> solution: take a leaf from the book of common lisp.
15:11:57 <nooga> SimonRC: eh, lisp is worse with those ()
15:13:00 <nooga> what do you mean " take a leaf from the book of common lisp."?
15:13:30 <SimonRC> Common Lisp puts functions in a seperate namespace. Not a good idea here, but the idea of functions (typically called) being separate from values (typically passed to them), is a good idea...
15:13:46 <SimonRC> so, most functions act like already.
15:14:05 <SimonRC> most variables act like variables, as already..
15:15:21 <SimonRC> but, you can make a function be parsed like a variable (being a leaf not a branch node in the parse tree) or a variable act like a function (be a branch not a leaf in the parse tree)
15:15:39 <SimonRC> could even be mad backward-compatible
15:16:28 <nooga> so application would be natural, fxy {f(x,y)} onlu if f has a type FUNCTION ?
15:17:32 <SimonRC> more of a parsing flag than a type, though
15:17:52 <SimonRC> in fact, it should *only* be a parser thing, and not relevent at runtime
15:18:42 <nooga> ha, check out my placeholder: http://stainworks.com/
15:23:31 <SimonRC> What content will it have?
15:42:18 <nooga> erm, my homepage, blog and portfolio ;]
15:56:57 <nooga> who wants a pro webpage for $750 ?
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16:36:16 <nooga> what name would be better: shame? or ulisp? ;]
16:36:31 <nooga> (for my new esolang of crs.)
16:36:41 <nooga> ulisp -> uncommon lisp
16:37:04 <nooga> shame resembles scheme ;>
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16:46:03 <nooga> why s isn't allowed?
16:48:05 <SimonRC> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/net.general/msg/e809b92fdcc92888
16:50:33 <nooga> but ulisp will be bery stupid lisp dialect ;p
16:51:17 <SimonRC> (you realise that is a joke, right?)
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21:06:09 <ihope> I find it cute how a short string of gibberish, like "36 F.Supp.2d 191" or "0-380-75947-0", can uniquely identify something.
21:06:39 <jix> 9DEDB891-8361-461C-9ED5-BDF0C8460EA9
21:07:03 <jix> and they are able to uniquely identify something without a centralized db
21:07:18 <ihope> What's 9DEDB891-8361-461C-9ED5-BDF0C8460EA9?
21:07:32 <jix> thats an uuid
21:07:34 <jix> man uuidgen
21:07:58 <jix> F1ED2D44-14E5-473B-96A4-395874541C27
21:07:59 <jix> 4082D87F-1CC0-49D1-AC25-5D9D10D4821B
21:08:00 <jix> BA41A38F-0712-486E-B0E4-0F2AB266A492
21:08:39 <ihope> Those aren't version 1 UUID's, are they?
21:08:50 <jix> i don't know
21:08:57 <jix> you could check the version bits
21:09:14 <ihope> What're those, and where?
21:09:24 <jix> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUID
21:09:34 <jix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_Unique_Identifier
21:10:02 <ihope> Yeah, I can't read Dutch. ;-)
21:11:05 <ihope> So Dutch is NL. How logical.
21:11:15 <ihope> Spanish is ES, German is DE...
21:11:26 <jix> well german in german is deutsch
21:11:39 <jix> spanish in spanish is españ....
21:11:58 * jix doesn't speak spanish
21:12:09 <jix> and no i'm using version 4
21:12:30 <ihope> The random version?
21:14:04 <ihope> So can you tell me what 0-380-75947-0 is?
21:15:31 <jix> something us specific?
21:15:52 <jix> telephone number?
21:16:16 <jix> random number?
21:16:25 <jix> wait some bar-code
21:16:53 <jix> maybe it's a phone number too ;)
21:17:51 <jix> what is this? "36 F.Supp.2d 191"
21:18:19 <ihope> Try a Google search.
21:20:34 <ihope> Blerr is located at http://www.nationalesports.com/index.php?op=viewuser&userid=9828
21:42:05 <ihope> So, GregorR, you're not Greg Orr, are you?
21:44:22 <GregorR> I have a far more robust name than that X-P
21:44:36 <GregorR> Greg Orr is just the guy who stole my domain name *sobs*
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21:57:31 <ihope> Ackermann function, anyone?
21:58:21 <calamari> I could go for a piece of pi.. still hungry ;)
21:59:32 <ihope> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
21:59:34 <ihope> 8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
21:59:35 <ihope> 4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273
21:59:37 <ihope> 724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609
21:59:47 <ihope> Exactly--that's not an approximation.
22:00:29 <ihope> Oh, right, the musical pattern thing...
22:01:02 <ihope> Play this note sequence: CDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCACDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCB
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22:04:19 <calamari> and that's hwhat happens when you accidentally press ctrl alt backspace
22:05:52 <lament> ihope: i played it... nothing happened
22:06:19 <ihope> Did you hear anything?
22:06:38 <lament> the notes i played? :)
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22:09:57 <lament> does anybody have a recording of "manha de carnaval" with singing?
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22:23:18 <fuse> how's things, ihope?
22:23:53 <ihope> We were just arguing frantically over whether A001511 makes good music.
22:24:15 <fuse> oh well, i can't join that discussion.
22:24:38 <ihope> Hmm... then again, we weren't.
22:41:41 <fuse> ihope: i bought "the little schemer" the other day
22:42:47 <fuse> ihope: it's a book
22:43:18 <fuse> ihope: it's a book on scheme; it's laid out as a children's book and it has all these cute drawings of elephants
22:44:41 <fuse> ihope: and it still manages to present some pretty deep cs concepts; for instance, it presents turing's argument for the indecidability of the halting problem with little scheme programs
22:45:02 <fuse> ihope: yeah it's great
22:48:07 <fuse> ihope: http://www.bookpool.com/covers/992/0262560992_500.gif
22:48:17 <fuse> i'm in love with this book
22:49:12 <ihope> What would happen if I threw that in with all the other children's books at some library?
22:50:41 <fuse> if we were born in the right universe, it /would/ be a children's book; unfortunately we were born in the alternate universe in that star trek episode where everyone's evil and spock has a goatee
22:54:44 <fuse> ihope: the book has a page that says, "This space reserved for JELLY STAINS!"
22:55:42 <Arrogant> fuse, without spock having a goatee we wouldn't have the band spock's beard
22:56:25 <fuse> Arrogant: well, you have a point
22:57:06 <Arrogant> speaking of which, i think i will turn it on
22:57:31 * fuse plays spock's beard - revelation.mp3
22:59:30 <Arrogant> You know I have run into fairly few Spock's Beard fans
22:59:40 <Arrogant> Then again I have never really looked for them
23:00:05 <fuse> well, i like prog
23:00:48 <Arrogant> Porcupine Tree is my favorite.
23:06:54 <fuse> ihope: where's that haskell book you recommended again?
23:07:05 <ihope> I reccomended a Haskell book?
23:07:41 <fuse> ihope: well, yes, an on-line book
23:08:09 <ihope> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Haskell
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23:30:28 <lament> i want to learn a song, and can't find its melody anywhere
23:31:51 <ihope> CDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCACDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCB
23:37:38 <lament> yayyyyyyyy i think i found it
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00:15:50 <ihope> Hit any key to continue.
00:15:51 <ihope> http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/graphics/car-hitanykey.jpg
00:16:50 <int-e> "You have moved the mouse. Please reboot the computer for this change to take effect."
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02:14:02 <ihope> RuneScape is like Programm Quest where you have to pay attention.
02:14:27 <ihope> s/Programm/Progress/, eep.
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07:19:03 <GregorR> Arrogant, you arrogant FOOL! Don't you know that it's YOUR BABY!!!
07:19:15 * GregorR tries to add drama to the chatter on #esoteric
07:20:29 <GregorR> The small amount of time I spare to esoprogramming goes to C2BF right now.
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18:12:08 <Athas> Please calculate and print the sum of 2 and 5.
18:22:05 <ihope_> As you can see, IRP works, but very, very slowly.
18:22:23 <Athas> Premature optimization is the root of all evil. :)
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18:52:44 <lament> I think it will be hard to prove turing-completeness of IRP
18:54:34 <Athas> How about implementing a Turing-complete language in IRP?
18:54:56 <ihope_> So I guess that means IRP is only sometimes Turing-complete.
18:55:51 <lament> i don't think egobot qualifies as a proof
18:56:02 <Athas> This nondeterminism could make IRP valuable for implementation of crypto programs.
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18:56:08 <lament> egobot just interprets programs
18:56:16 <lament> i don't think you can use an interpreter to prove turing-completeness
18:57:33 <ihope_> Athas: how would nondeterministic cryptography work?
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20:06:07 <SimonRC> ihope_: Dude! You independently invented the tune "CDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCACDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCB"!
20:07:29 <ihope_> Well, it's not like that's a random sequence.
20:09:02 <SimonRC> BTW, "0-380-75947-0" looks like an ISBN to me.
20:09:15 <SimonRC> oh, wait, that one was answered
20:10:23 <ihope_> RFC 1459 should be obvious enough, with a Google search.
20:10:26 <lament> i'm not sure if that sequence qualifies as a "tune"
20:11:59 <SimonRC> ihope_: erm, *what* about "RFC 1459"?
20:12:49 * SimonRC recalls that there are people in the world who don't know what an RFC is.
20:31:23 <ihope_> Heh, I started something over at #haskell.
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21:39:39 <ihope_> Yay, I'm an op at #########!
21:42:19 <GregorR> Is that the official channel for ########, or the support channel for #######?
21:43:08 <ihope_> The support channel for #######.
21:44:12 <ihope_> If you ever want to know how ####### works, just pop over there...
21:44:36 <ihope_> Oh wait... five channels.
21:45:04 <ihope_> Three channels: #esoteric, #haskell and #meta-science.
21:46:06 <ihope_> The official channel for #######, by the way, is at ########.
21:46:13 <jix> i want to hear CDCECDCF....
21:48:49 <GregorR> Yes, I understood that much.
21:48:52 <GregorR> But what is its significance?
21:49:19 <ihope_> Well, notice that every other note is a C.
21:49:36 <ihope_> Remove those, and every other note's a D. Remove those, and every other note's an E...
21:49:38 <GregorR> And you're making a scale on the off-beats.
21:50:03 <GregorR> I have a digital keyboard sitting next to me :-P
21:51:44 <GregorR> CDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCACDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCBCDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDCACDCECDCFCDCECDCGCDCECDCFCDCECDC
21:58:30 <jix> ah i can hear it!
21:59:31 <jix> http://rafb.net/paste/results/cdWQ1q59.html
21:59:35 <jix> chipmunkbasic4ever
21:59:57 <jix> Chipmunk Basic for MacOS is an old-fashioned Basic interpreter which runs on almost all Macs.
22:00:15 <jix> it runs on old 500k macs and on the newest osx macs
22:00:26 <jix> but i think there isn't an intel version (yet)
22:02:15 <jix> ah there is a typo...
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01:11:11 <SimonRC> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Spam + Nethack geks = death by laughter: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_frm/thread/3353cfc154af3b5d/
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20:04:15 <calamari> and I thought my connection was poor.. Gregor, your connection 0wnz
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23:25:18 <lindi-> GregorR: tor seems to be very stable nowadays ;)
00:00:11 <fizzie> To fill the daily Perl quota - functional programming in Perl: perl -e 'print &{&{sub { my $f = shift; return &$f($f); }}(sub { my $f = shift; return sub { my $n = shift; return 1 if $n < 2; return &{&$f($f)}($n-1) + &{&$f($f)}($n-2); }; })}(8), "\n";'
00:00:27 <fizzie> I think that means it's time to go to sleep.
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13:41:24 <Keymaker> oh my head.. what is this place? where am i?! this looks strangely familiar..
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15:33:10 <cyph1e> Hi, can anyone give me an advice for writing a brainfuck program which increases a 3 digit input (seen as a number) by one?
15:33:38 <cyph1e> like 123 -> 124, 879 -> 880
15:36:30 <kipple> the way I would do it: increase the last digit by one. test if the new number is 58 (ascii value of ':'). If not, then done. else replace with 48 and repeat the procedure for next digit
15:37:21 <kipple> but you didn't specify how the number is input, so it might not apply
15:37:44 <kipple> is it read as 3 separate digits or a single number with 3 digits
15:38:33 <kipple> well, sure, but if it is only one single number you have to do some more work :)
15:38:55 <kipple> bah . never mind me. being stupid today
15:40:02 <cyph1e> the input is read as 3 characters
15:40:27 <kipple> then my method should work
15:40:32 <cyph1e> what's the "brainfuck-way" to check if a new number is 58?
15:40:46 <kipple> subtract 58 and check for 0 with [
15:41:16 <Keymaker> that works only if the interpreter is wrapping
15:41:59 <Keymaker> well, let's say i input '4' in my interpreter -- if i subtract 58 from it it causes underflow
15:42:11 <kipple> well, then your interpreter is broken IMHO :)
15:43:16 <cyph1e> are the bytes signed or unsigned?
15:43:52 <Keymaker> how did you find out this marvellous language?
15:44:10 <kipple> again, that depends on the interpreter, but the original used signed WRAPPING bytes.. ;)
15:44:22 <kipple> damn. unsigned I mean ;D
15:44:23 <Keymaker> but the original interpreter is buggy if you remember ;)
15:44:28 <cyph1e> well I'm doing some programming challenges and one of them asks me to write such a program in bf
15:46:43 <cyph1e> so to check if a byte is 58, I need to copy the byte first?
15:47:18 <Keymaker> in your case it'd be easiest (not necessarily shortest) to first subtract 48 from the cell when reading input
15:47:38 <Keymaker> then you could check if the cell's value is ten, a bit easier
15:47:53 <Keymaker> and when printing out adding 48 to each digit
15:48:11 <Keymaker> this way is not the shortest, but it's simplest
15:49:23 <cyph1e> are all the bytes guaranteed to be zero at start?
15:50:51 <Keymaker> btw, remember the special case that if you increase 999 it'll be no longer three-digit number ;)
15:51:10 <cyph1e> use 5 bytes as a start
15:51:48 <cyph1e> do the increase thing, and '<' until you reach a zero byte
15:52:41 <Keymaker> you thought correct, but you need to loop there
15:52:57 <Keymaker> so i suggest using memory 0 0 1 9 1 9 1 9
15:53:42 <Keymaker> and you can move slide in the memory by using [>>] kinda structures
15:53:53 <Keymaker> it gets a bit more complicated, but not much
15:54:12 <Keymaker> the brainfuck way of thinking takes a bit time ;)
15:54:55 <Keymaker> there's however a simpler way too
16:01:26 <Keymaker> hmm, i think the loop way is the simplest afterall.. i started making another way but it gets a lot more complicated
16:01:58 <Keymaker> i suggest having there something booleans to indicate the current digit that is currently being selected
16:02:15 <Keymaker> to allow easier moving, 0 indicating selected and 1 non-selected
16:02:15 <cyph1e> yeah it seems like a good ieda
16:03:14 <Keymaker> and every take two copies of the digit, then return it, and then check from the other copy if it's 10 -- if it is then set the digit to zero and increase the one on its left side
16:03:43 <Keymaker> this is basically the "move left until reach zero byte"
16:04:13 <cyph1e> ah great.. I'm gonna eat dinner, I'll be back in a while
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16:31:30 <cyph1e> Can you move left if you're in the original position in bf?
16:34:52 <cyph1e> the flag bytes, are they only used for knowing if the result is 3 or 4 digits?
16:36:14 <Keymaker> that as well, but they help you to move around in the array when you're looping
16:36:23 <Keymaker> and doing the calculation for every digit
16:36:56 <cyph1e> I'm having a bit trouble trying to make this into a fancy loop instead of hardcoding each calculation
16:37:26 <Keymaker> heh, yeah -- naturally you can also hardcode each calculation if you want to
16:38:12 <cyph1e> I think I give that a try first
16:47:12 <Keymaker> well, it can be pretty difficult for a beginner, yes. i didn't learn bf in one night
16:48:03 <Keymaker> i can make a sample code if you want to see what it would look like or something
16:48:39 <cyph1e> http://pastebin.zerovolt.com/101/
16:49:20 <cyph1e> those brackets, [ ], I enter that loop if I have a 9 as most-right digit
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16:51:35 <Keymaker> here comes to interpreter question.. if the interpreter is wrapping the only case you DON'T enter the loop is if the value is 10
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16:52:30 <cyph1e> how to construct "if-statements" otherwise?
16:53:30 <cyph1e> but I would rather like to step inside that bracket body if I got 10
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16:54:56 <Keymaker> if the smallest value in the cell can be zero; [-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[- now code what happens if cell is 10 ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]
16:55:22 <Keymaker> remember to do that in a copy of the cell, otherwise you'll lose the cell's value
16:56:37 <cyph1e> shouldn't it be -[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[
16:56:49 <Keymaker> it depends what the smallest value there can be
16:57:01 <Keymaker> in that example of mine the smallest possible value was zero
16:57:11 <cyph1e> your example was correct, I was thinking wrong
17:04:50 <cyph1e> http://pastebin.zerovolt.com/102/
17:04:59 <cyph1e> shouldn't that work for 2 numbers? I must've made a mistake somewhere
17:07:39 <cyph1e> I'm currently trying it on http://koti.mbnet.fi/villes/php/bf.php
17:08:52 <Keymaker> ah, you know what the problem is? you forgot to do increase the number
17:09:07 <Keymaker> if you input 499 it stays as 499
17:09:24 <cyph1e> I don't understand, I'm getting crap output
17:09:37 <Keymaker> perhaps that interpreter doesn't work right..
17:09:52 <cyph1e> can you recommend one?
17:12:26 <Keymaker> you could try this: http://www.iamcal.com/misc/bf_debug/
17:12:30 <cyph1e> a one I just downloaded crashed
17:13:03 <Keymaker> anyways, you don't increase the last digit in any point
17:13:21 <cyph1e> yeah, I should do that in the beginning, before copying
17:13:24 <Keymaker> so instead of subtracting 48 subtract 47
17:15:00 <Keymaker> it should work now. when you input 499 it outputs 4:0 which means the middle digit is 10
17:18:33 <cyph1e> I should be able to do this on my own now, thanks a lot for your help
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21:54:16 * pgimeno wonders how many _'s will FreeNode support
21:55:17 <fizzie> 20:55:32 [freenode] ... IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 are supported by this server
21:56:19 <fizzie> (Assuming all freenode servers agree on that NICKLEN, which sounds like a safe assumption.)
21:56:19 <lindi-> maybe GregorR_______ should use some RLE scheme for his nick to support more underscores
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00:22:15 <ihope> You've really overdone it, GregorR__________________________________________________________________.
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01:48:27 <ihope> Note to self: ¡ʇхəʇ uʍop-əpɪsdɳ oʇ pəɹɐdɯoɔ 6uɪɥʇou s˛ʇɐɥʇ
01:52:07 <GregorR> Note to self: Upside-down text is dumb.
01:52:35 <GregorR> Sorry, lemme rephrase that ...
01:52:38 <GregorR> Note to ihope: Upside-down text is dumb.
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02:31:09 <ihope> Heh. From the logs:17:48:27 <ihope> Note to self: ¡ʇхəʇ uÊop-É™pɪsdɳ oʇ pəɹÉdɯoÉ” 6uɪɥʇou s˛ʇÉɥʇ
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02:44:26 <ihope> Whoa... we have a WIKI?
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13:08:19 <jix> moin everyone
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13:11:31 <nooga> have you ever written a interpreter with GC?
13:13:29 <nooga> ah well never mind
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15:38:28 <SimonRC> GregorR: nice going Mr. 9-underscores.
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15:50:38 <ihope> So should I waste time on IRC, waste time playing games, or study Haskell concurrency and stuff?
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20:00:42 <Keymaker> hi all, i made a quine in REVERSE;
20:00:44 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/reverse/quine.rev
20:01:01 <Keymaker> haven't been able to run it thought, but it should work
20:01:12 <Keymaker> i tested with smaller value and it worked
20:01:30 <Keymaker> with value i mean the data part
20:03:42 <Keymaker> the code could be half shorter but of course reverse's integer output happens to output a space character just before the number so i had to output it manually
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20:22:57 <Keymaker> and yeah, it'd require something interpreter capable of handling a bit larger integers, since the data part it's constantly using has 866 digits..
20:25:58 <nooga> i bet that jix wrote GC
20:26:06 <jix> wrote what?
20:26:28 <jix> if simple reference counting counts (^^), i did
20:27:14 <jix> they free memory space that isn't used anyomre
20:27:27 <jix> "anyomre".unscramble!
20:27:43 <Keymaker> ok. how does one know what is used and what is not?
20:28:04 <jix> reference conuting (one possibility)
20:28:06 <jix> or mark & sweep
20:28:11 <nooga> hm it amrks new variables and marks those referenced by them
20:28:22 <nooga> walking reference graphs
20:28:28 <nooga> and those unmarked r deleted
20:28:32 <Keymaker> in which language you wrote that?
20:28:34 <jix> reference counting always uses some cpu
20:28:39 <jix> Keymaker: i wrote it in c
20:28:44 <jix> but for a project i never finished
20:28:56 <jix> mark and sweep uses much cpu but only sometines
20:29:22 <Keymaker> i have no idea how something like that can be written :)
20:29:40 <jix> for everything you store you have an variable called ref_count
20:29:41 <nooga> i'm trying to implement it in my core lisp interpreter
20:29:53 <jix> if you use a think you call thing.ref_count++
20:30:05 <jix> and if you don't need it anymore you call thing.ref_count-- und if ref_count is 0 you free it
20:31:04 <jix> oh and if you free it you have to do ref_count-- on all things referenced by thing
20:31:09 <jix> because you free that reference
20:34:59 <nooga> "nara" is contracted "narazie" = "solong" or something
20:35:06 <nooga> "hasta la vista" ;p
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22:00:05 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/reverse/quine.rev
22:00:15 <Keymaker> i'm not able to run it but it should work
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22:16:27 <Keymaker> hmm, seems wikipedia servers are expressing difficulties again
22:18:08 <ihope> Programming language...
22:18:48 <ihope> It's not on the wiki yet, so you'll have to wait a bit.
22:22:12 <ihope> But MAYBE it's possible to write useful functions here.
22:27:05 <ihope> I'm starting to think it's not.
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14:00:58 <nooga> listening to BB King ;]
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19:05:57 <calamari> GregorR: there is an interesting discussion in #crypto about a secure serverless chatroom system
19:06:23 <GregorR> DirectNet is secure, and has chat rooms X-P
19:06:40 <GregorR> It figures this would be happening right as I have no time :-P
19:06:53 <calamari> GregorR: if you'd like, I can save a copy of the log for you
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21:09:44 <calamari> GregorR: http://kidsquid.com/crypto.log
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22:07:17 <ihope> The cat's so CUTE!
22:08:10 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
22:09:29 <ihope> Do these other GregorR's represent... something to do with those?
22:09:51 <kipple> I have a cat too. here it is: ,[.,]
22:10:40 <ihope> ,[.,[-]:+] makes it a bit cuter.
22:11:04 <kipple> nah. everyone knows that smaller=cuter
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22:11:51 <ihope> That one's a cat if the input is an infinite stream of the same character.
22:14:00 <ihope> The empty program is a cat for no input.\
22:14:21 <ihope> Heck--even this message is one of those :-)
22:14:42 <GregorR-L> Way to carefully avoid punctuation XP
22:15:26 <ihope> Isn't it easy? ;-)
22:16:01 <ihope> Just don't use commas nor end your sentences with periods!
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22:16:34 <ihope> [Alternatively, there's this.]
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22:47:24 <GregorR-L> Woooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
22:48:28 <calamari> GregorR-L: did you download that log (in other words, can I remove it now?)
22:48:49 <GregorR-L> Oh, sorry, was going to download it at home ^^
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22:49:04 <calamari> let me know so I can remove it later
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02:33:40 <GregorR-L> Looks like heatsink is programming again ;)
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06:21:09 <lament> AI_coder: so yeah, browse the wiki, there's lots of fun stuff there
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09:35:00 <jix> moin nooooga
09:35:54 <nooga> i'm trying to implement lazy eval
09:36:12 <nooga> but i can't find good articles about it
09:50:30 <nooga> jix: don't you know some? it's almost impossible that you've invented everything by yourself.
10:00:51 <jix> i read a german haskell tutorial
10:00:58 <jix> that was everything i ever read about lazy evaluation
10:20:21 <nooga> and then implemented it in c++
10:21:46 <nooga> you're so genious... amagad... i'd better don't try to think what will you be in my age
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11:44:34 <jix> moin kipple
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11:52:34 <jix> moin ihope
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15:02:52 <nooga> http://paste.lisp.org/system-server/show/lisppaste/colorize
15:03:10 <nooga> oh it's so esoteric -.-'
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16:38:26 <pgimeno> hum, Simon Tatham claims that http://xn13.com/ is Ben Olmstead's homepage... http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/doc/inertia.html
16:39:20 <pgimeno> if that's right then that can be worth being mentioned in the wiki
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23:23:29 <nooga> i'm trying to emulate (Larry Wall|Guido van Rossum|Matz)
23:28:00 <nooga> well... designing a normal, script lang to get studentship
23:34:17 <nooga> what should i implement first?
23:34:24 <nooga> the vm or the compiler?
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01:03:14 <ihope> So how do we stop the recent spam-wave?
01:03:33 <ihope> Temporarily block unregistered dudes from editing?
01:05:32 <ihope> Prevent external links from having the text "..."?
01:06:31 <ihope> And for the other type of spam, prevent page lengths from being cut in half?
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09:40:49 <Keymaker> yeah the spam wave is rather annoying
09:44:22 <pgimeno> are there as many unregistered contributors as to leave the unregistered option open?
09:45:42 <Keymaker> no idea, but i'd guess there are less unregistered ones
09:45:44 <pgimeno> I'm not sure I've made sense there
09:46:47 <pgimeno> the trusting in good faith is broken by the spammers
09:47:17 <Keymaker> in my opinion it doesn't matter what unregistered contributors think because it will be for the wiki's best
09:47:25 <Keymaker> and nothing prevents unregistered users from registering
09:48:29 <pgimeno> actually, my suggestion initially was to not allow anonymous contributions
09:48:42 <Keymaker> yeah, but isn't that the same thing?
09:49:00 <Keymaker> or is there any other way to contribute non-anonymously than by registering?
09:49:02 <pgimeno> yes, just a bit delayed :)
09:50:16 <pgimeno> I wonder if there's kind of a "captcha" plugin or extension or whatever for MediaWiki
09:51:19 <pgimeno> even so, I've read somewhere how spammers are fighting captchas...
09:51:32 <pgimeno> don't know if that's an extended practice yet
09:52:11 <Keymaker> well, registering only slows them down
09:52:29 <Keymaker> they can always register and such, but thankfully not that often
09:52:40 <pgimeno> they offer free pr0n if the user enters the captcha's text; the user's entry is then used for spamming
09:53:48 <pgimeno> waiting for an email confirmation is unacceptable for spammers, indeed
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18:11:10 <ihope> ===EgoBot There was no such nickname
18:11:16 <ihope> ---EgoBot End of WHOWAS
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18:58:01 <ihope> Very suddenly, I feel the NEED to create an operating system.
18:58:36 * ihope downloads Bochs and dives into the documentation things, then gets bored and starts wasting time again
18:59:33 * ihope downloads Qemu and dives into the documentation things, then gets bored and puts his operating system in EagleBot instead
19:00:07 * ihope realizes that EagleBot hasn't been written yet, laughs, and begins reading the Haskell API documentation
19:00:15 <calamari> still waiting on that esoteric operating system
19:01:41 <calamari> best I could do was bos in 512 bytes
19:02:17 <ihope> A 512-byte operating system?
19:02:19 <calamari> hmm, wonder how much of an os could be provided in 512 bytes (apps wouldn't access anything directly, just through the os)
19:02:42 <ihope> Accept input, store it in a file. Run the file.
19:03:13 <ihope> The line above is an all-purpose operating system written in pseudocode. /me bows
19:03:33 <calamari> that might put you over the 512-byte limit :)
19:03:43 <fizzie> Wasn't qemu the one with the strange 'system is (L)GPL'd but an "accelerator module" is proprietary' license?
19:03:58 <ihope> How big's the smallest BF interpreter we have?
19:04:05 <calamari> fizzie: there is a gpl accelerator and a freeware accel
19:04:24 <ihope> Anyway, this might be shorter: RUN INPUT.
19:04:26 <calamari> ihope: I wrote one that is pretty small
19:04:41 <fizzie> I wrote a relatively small one (in C) too.
19:05:18 <fizzie> Apparently four lines, with lengths 67, 67, 66 and 65.
19:05:37 <fizzie> main(j,a,n,t)int*a;{unsigned short p=-1;char*r=calloc(n=p+1,6),*i=r
19:05:37 <fizzie> +n,**k=i+n;for(read(open(*++a,t=0),i,p);n=*i-43,t<0?n-48?n-50||++t:
19:05:37 <fizzie> --t:n?n-2?n-19?n-17?n-3?n-48?n-50?n-1||read(0,r+p,1):p[r]?i=k[j]:j
19:05:37 <fizzie> --:p[r]?k[++j]=i:t--:putchar(p[r]):p--:p++:p[r]--:p[r]++,*i++;);}
19:05:53 <calamari> hmm, this one is 98 bytes, I thought I had it smaller tho
19:06:13 <fizzie> 98 bytes is quite small already.
19:07:12 <calamari> bf's goal was the smallest tc compiler.. wonder if another lang would be better suited to be even smaller
19:07:33 <fizzie> Is your 69-byte one a compiler or an interpreter?
19:08:02 * calamari doesn't remember a 69 byte one
19:08:06 <fizzie> Uh, s/69/98/; my brain is broken.
19:08:31 <calamari> fizzie: interpreter.. compiler is 123
19:09:01 <ihope> There's the operating system, but it doesn't work with every interpreter.
19:09:48 <calamari> ihope: so you're basing your os on windows then?
19:10:21 <calamari> ihope: uses all available memory and crashes the computer
19:10:55 <ihope> I said it didn't work with every interpreter.
19:15:27 <ihope> I'm going to kill those guys at Adobe. Who's with me?
19:16:54 <calamari> what do you like better, postscript?
19:17:45 <ihope> If it can be read by a non-Adobe product, it's fine with me.
19:18:08 <calamari> ihope: x/gpdf seem to have no trouble with pdf
19:27:02 <fizzie> g/kpdf actually occasionally seem to _have_ trouble with pdf. xpdf more rarely.
19:27:16 <fizzie> (And they all have problems with encrypted pdf's or such.)
19:31:36 <ihope> DANG, Hunter looks fun.
19:32:10 <calamari> fizzie: never used an encrypted pdf .. hehe
19:33:33 <ihope> "" <- an encrypted PDF
19:33:53 <ihope> As you can see, it was probably made using lossy encryption :-P
19:53:03 <calamari> I think I've reached a new level of geekiness.. my desktop image is from wikipedia
19:54:07 <calamari> of the Saguaro National Monument, from the Tucson page
19:54:24 <calamari> and I used GIMP to remove a street sign
19:55:16 <calamari> also darkened it a bit so that I'd have more contrast with my dark blue icons
19:55:52 <calamari> err.. that doesn't make much sense.. but it seems to work visually :)
21:13:38 <ihope> Yum, yum yum yum yum... yum!
22:24:35 <ihope> Right now, I can think of two exceptions to the "c" pronunciation thing: Caesar and ASCII.
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01:17:54 <ihope> How many points are required to define a conic section?
01:18:27 <ihope> Three can define a circle, and four can probably define an ellipse.
01:19:15 <ihope> If those points were along a parabola rather than an ellipse, then you'd probably end up with a parabola. If they were on a hyperbola, however...
01:19:41 <GregorR-L> Two can define a circle: the center and a point on the edge.
01:19:42 <ihope> So a hyperbola and an ellipse can intersect at four points.
01:19:58 <ihope> GregorR-L: but you'd need some extra info to know which is which.
01:20:17 <GregorR-L> OK, I guess if you want to know nothing about the points, then yeah.
01:20:55 <ihope> Just like a parabola can be defined by its focus and the whatchamacallit, as well as which is which.
01:21:04 * ihope looks up the name of the whatchamacallit
01:23:27 <ihope> Well, that'll work. The focus and the vertex.
01:23:51 <ihope> I was thinking the intersection of the directrix and the line formed by the focus and the vertex.
01:27:13 * SimonRC ponders how that heck multiple dimensions of time might work
01:27:49 <SimonRC> IIRC, a circle takes 3, so I think a conic section takes 4
01:29:17 <SimonRC> putting "multiple time dimensions" into google turns up a few nuts and a load of database stuff
01:32:42 <ihope> Multiple time dimensions?
01:32:59 <ihope> Is the path of time a conic section? :-)
01:35:12 <SimonRC> WTF?! http://www.friesian.com/images/onto-14.gif
01:38:43 <ihope> If it has the word "quantum" in it, either I have a strange obsession with it or I don't understand it at all.
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01:52:09 <SimonRC> Hmm, this is one of the less usual nutty physics websites; the type that states things that are fairly obvious and uses simple variations on mainstream "stuff" like they are some amazing new discovery. http://www.brooksdesign-cg.com/Code/Html/netart5.htm
01:52:45 <SimonRC> I was taught everything I have read (so far) except the bizarre diagramming at secondary school.
01:53:08 <SimonRC> conservation of units or whatever you want to call it.
02:03:13 <ihope> Everything's extremely strictly right-associative.
02:03:35 <ihope> 3^^^^3 = 3^^^3^^^3 = 3^^^3^^3^^3 = 3^^^3^^3^3^3
02:04:15 <SimonRC> not friggin graham's number again
02:04:36 <ihope> = 3^^^3^^3^27 = 3^^^3^^7625597484987
02:06:29 <ihope> Trying to go any further with lambda bot gives "Exception: stack overflow".
02:51:18 <ihope> 2^^^6 = 2^^2^^2^^2^^2^^2
02:51:43 <ihope> This is right-associative: 2^2^2^2 = 2^(2^(2^2)).
02:51:46 <calamari> that means 3^^7625597484987 is extremely huge ;)
02:52:03 <ihope> And 3^^^that is big too.
02:52:30 <ihope> Then you have to use that many Knuth arrows (i.e. carats) in the next number.
02:52:41 <ihope> Once you've calculated 64 of those, I'll let you go.
02:56:40 <calamari> seems like 2^^^^2 would be more interestng
03:03:40 <calamari> can't help it :) 2^^^^2=2^^^2^^^2=2^^^2^^2^^2=2^^^2^^2^2^2=2^^^2^^16=2^^^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2
03:05:23 <calamari> =2^^^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^65536
03:06:24 <calamari> can't post 2^65536 but python found it :)
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03:09:59 <calamari> log(2^65536)/log(10) ~= 19728.3017958
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03:34:00 <calamari> 2^65536=115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936^256
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07:39:50 <nooga> GreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegoR-L
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13:41:53 <ihope> Would a set of functions be okay for inclusion on the Wiki?
13:49:00 * kipple have no idea what that is...
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14:30:07 <SimonRC> ihope__: erm, just post them and we'll delete them if we don;t like them
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15:18:00 <SimonRC> apparently, this is fake: http://www.donaldsensing.com/Pix/0412/2004computer.jpg
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16:37:55 <ihope_> Scanner something error happens.
16:38:16 * jix is programming his robot
16:40:51 <jix> it's build using lego mindstorms
16:42:01 <jix> a friend of mine and i are going to participate (in|at|on|whatever) the robocup junior wm
16:42:21 <jix> he built the robot (he is much better than me in building robots) and i program it
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16:48:24 <ski__> jix : program in nqc ?
16:48:42 <jix> ski__: right
16:49:13 <jix> there is no other way to do mindstorms programming on mac os x
16:49:48 <jix> and the offical lego tools for windows really suck
16:51:02 <ihope_> "Be existed a interface by Haskell that?"
16:54:33 <ihope_> "Is there an interface for that for Haskell?
16:57:30 <ski__> are you quoting someone ?
16:57:58 <ski__> i don't know of any haskell interface, no
16:58:58 <ski__> wouldn't you need to e.g. port a haskell-runtime to the platform, then ?
16:59:28 <ski__> or were you thinking of a DSL in haskell that compiles down to, say, quite simple nqc ?
16:59:42 <SimonRC> IIRC, there is only a very tiny amount of RAM, e.g. 16 words.
17:00:25 <SimonRC> you need a stamp computer or something
17:01:06 <SimonRC> a computer on a single 3*6cm board, iirc
17:01:17 <ihope_> Wait... the Lego Mindstorms thing has only 16 words of memory?
17:01:18 <SimonRC> they could accomodate the Haskell RTS
17:01:24 <ihope_> Just what's in a word?
17:01:43 <SimonRC> I may be comfusing it with another processor
17:02:06 <jix> it has 16bit adress space
17:02:14 <edwinb> I thought it hadd 32k...
17:02:24 <SimonRC> try creating lots and lots of variables, and see if you hit a limit
17:02:25 <edwinb> (but I've never used it)
17:03:12 <SimonRC> OST, edwinb could be right.
17:03:19 <ihope_> That could be implemented with a couple switch thingies. Like squares, being black on one side and white on the other, then you could shine lasers on them to see what state they're in.
17:03:42 <ihope_> And to change them... blow some air on them? :-)
17:26:02 <ihope_> A man married 30 women, yet never had a wife...
17:28:11 <ihope_> How do you think he managed it?
17:46:11 <ihope_> Keep Japan clean: don't burn the fire chief!
17:54:34 <SimonRC> edwinb: waitamo, how did you know this place was here.
17:54:44 * SimonRC knows edwinb from elsewhere
17:59:39 * edwinb knows how to find things on the InterWeb.
18:01:38 <SimonRC> ah, but the trick is thinking of looking for them.
18:02:33 <ihope_> Finally actually WRITING the bot, whoo!
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19:48:22 <ihope> Insert witty joke here.
19:59:24 <SimonRC> "I had a dog with no legs called cigarette....
19:59:38 <SimonRC> ... Every day, I'd take him out for a drag"
20:00:11 <ihope> Did you hear the one about the king and the ping pong balls?
20:01:21 <ihope> Nah, that's too long. What about the snake and the lever?
20:01:47 <ihope> Well, there was a guy once who was named Jake.
20:02:01 <ihope> You know, perfectly human and everything.
20:02:32 <ihope> Well, he also had a wife named Ann.
20:02:46 <ihope> And two sons and a dog and a cat.
20:03:25 <ihope> So one day, Jake is walking the dog...
20:04:24 <ihope> Of course, walking the dog is nothing too interesting in and of itself.
20:05:30 <ihope> But the dog breaks free of his leash, which means, of course, that I can use that fact to develop the plot a little by making Jake's search for his dog very... long.
20:06:33 <ihope> Anyway, Jake notices something in the dirt. It might have been some super-powerful artifact...
20:07:15 <ihope> But it was just a beetle, who had managed to become half-buried.
20:08:14 <ihope> Disappointed, and unable to find his dog, Jake decides to go back home... you know?
20:09:20 <ihope> Well, lemme see here...
20:09:54 <ihope> Oh, right right. Character development, and all that.
20:10:17 <ihope> Well, divorce laws in Jake's country are extremely strict.
20:10:43 <ihope> So Ann can... well, you know?
20:11:21 <ihope> Take that to her advantage, I guess.
20:12:15 <ihope> Well, no, that won't work, will it?
20:12:46 <ihope> Okay. Scratch those two lines.
20:12:54 <ihope> I'll do a bit of brainstormies.
20:13:30 <ihope> (Of course, you have to be careful when brainstorming, otherwise you could end up seriously injured...)
20:14:20 * SimonRC wanders where the heck this is going
20:19:32 <ihope> There's a guy named Jake who has a wife named Ann and two sons and a dog and a cat. He's walking his dog and the dog breaks free of his leash.
20:20:48 <ihope> There's a guy named Bill with a dad named Jake and a mom named Ann and a brother and a dog and a cat.
20:21:30 <ihope> Hmm, maybe I'll just link a different version of this story.
20:23:53 <ihope> It's big enough to fill five pages of forumy stuff.
20:23:54 <ihope> http://www.laptoplogic.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4356&mode=threaded
20:25:49 <ihope> It'll take a while to read. I'm going out for a walk... maybe then you'll be at the end ;-)
20:36:25 <SimonRC> ah, wait, there are more pages
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20:56:48 <SimonRC> edwinb: I think you have a competitor.
20:57:22 <SimonRC> That has to be the most rambling build-up to a bad pun that I have ever heard.
20:58:24 <edwinb> will it work if I just skip to the end?
20:59:04 <edwinb> feh. I'll wait until I'm bored enough then.
20:59:45 <SimonRC> ihope: BTW, it doesn't work in British English, as the first vowel of the fourth word of the punchline is a long vowel, and so the fourth word doesn't rhyme with what it's supposed to.
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21:15:13 <jix> GregorR: you stopped using tor?
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21:16:01 <GregorR-L> jix: Yeah, more trouble than it's worth.
21:19:00 <SimonRC> GregorR-L: get colo and ssh into it
21:20:30 <SimonRC> The idea is that you get a 1U linux machine, put it in colocation, and use ssh to get to it.
21:20:47 <SimonRC> You actually *do* much of your stuff there.
21:21:03 <SimonRC> thus, your building can;t spy on your internet connection
21:22:09 <SimonRC> one advantage is you get to use the extreme leetness of screen.
21:22:27 <GregorR-L> I'd be using VNC, just to piss you off.
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22:07:32 <ihope> I do not say good the English.
22:08:25 <GregorR-L> I does not speak well with the grammars.
22:09:03 <ihope> It would fill the natural one above.
22:11:32 <ihope> , this task was indistinct stood out!
22:15:08 * calamari just totally screwed his site :(
22:15:23 <calamari> untarred something that wasn't tared properly.. had a bunch of directories in it and it overwrote a bunch of crap
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22:32:15 <SimonRC> ihope: BTW, it doesn't work in British English, as the first vowel of the fourth word of the punchline is a long vowel, and so the fourth word doesn't rhyme with what it's supposed to.
22:33:21 <ihope> Tell them to pronounce "never" the same way.
22:45:56 <basti_> but I'm not a native speaker too
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23:11:42 <calamari> lost some history and a couple edits but I think I got everything mostly back
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15:35:26 <ihope> (Wow, a new function! That's amazing!)
15:35:37 <ihope> Anyway... it's an extended Ackermann function.
15:36:47 <ihope> B(0,b,c) = A(b,c); B(a,0,c) = B(a-1,1,c); B(a,b,0) = B(a,b-1,1); B(a,b,c) = B(a-1,B(a,b-1,c),B(a,b,c-1))
15:37:20 <ihope> A(0,b) = b+1; A(a,0) = A(a-1,1); A(a,b) = A(a-1,A(a,b-1))
16:02:41 <ihope> B(1,1,1) = B(0,B(1,0,1),B(1,1,0)) = B(0,B(0,1,1),B(1,0,1)) = B(0,A(1,1),B(0,1,1)) = B(0,A(0,A(1,0)),A(1,1)) = B(0,A(0,A(0,1)),A(0,A(1,0))) = B(0,A(0,2),A(0,A(0,1))) = B(0,3,A(0,2)) = B(0,3,3) = A(3,3) = A(2,A(3,2)) = A(2,A(2,A(3,1))) = A(2,A(2,A(2,A(3,0)))) = A(2,A(2,A(2,A(2,1)))) = A(2,A(2,A(2,A(1,A(2,0))))) = A(2,A(2,A(2,A(1,A(2,0)))))
16:02:58 <ihope> Anyway, this eventually evaluates to 61.
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16:25:25 <ihope> It takes a long time to do so :-P
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22:04:01 <ihope> I'm good, and you?
22:04:30 <GregorR> <GregorR> So, you speak Spanish ...
22:05:00 <GregorR> I took two or three years of it, and know a few phrases X-P
22:05:13 <ihope> I'm still in my first year.
22:05:32 <GregorR> In terms of what I remember, I'm on about my first year ;)
22:06:11 <ihope> Well, the Spanish speaking dudes don't like to capitalize much, so the above should be "español"...
22:06:45 <ihope> And the ¿ doesn't come until the beginning of the actual question: "estoy bien, ¿y tú?"
22:25:11 * pgimeno saluda y se va a dormir (/me waves and goes to sleep)
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22:55:03 <ihope> Your free trial of IRP has ended. [Purchase] [Exit]
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22:57:13 <ihope> Alternatively, there's f*** the world, but... well.
22:57:38 <fluffythe> i came here thinking some computer was gonna answer my questions :/
22:57:57 <fluffythe> what is the answer to life the univers and everyhting?
22:58:21 <ihope> We used to have an EgoBot around here, but It Disappeared.
22:59:32 <ihope> According to this website: "The ultimate question is : what is the ultimate question?"
23:00:58 <fluffythe> that doesnt make sense, because the answer isnt 42...
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23:24:32 <ihope> Los pingüinos de Madagascar son locos, ¿sí?
23:26:14 <GregorR> <-- will bring it back up in a minute.
23:26:21 <GregorR> <-- has an unstable connection
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23:28:12 <GregorR> I broke it slightly and have 1000000 bad lines in the log >_>
23:28:17 <GregorR> Then I'll bring it back up.
23:28:56 <GregorR> Grepping through millions of lines takes longer than it ought.
23:32:28 <GregorR> 1158950 bad lines, to be specific.
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23:34:26 <GregorR> EgoBot: Welcome back my friend.
23:34:37 * ihope senses a bit of !raw
23:34:37 <GregorR> !bf_txtgen I don't work with only 10 megs!
23:34:41 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
23:34:53 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:34:55 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
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20:50:01 <ihope> Hmm... I get a 403 error whenever I try to edit the Wiki or log on.
20:50:18 <ihope> Is there some broken CAPTCHA in here?
21:30:18 <SimonRC> Quote: "I once worked on a project where all code was created using CodeGeneration. It was a complete mess - jumps everywhere, different calling conventions for different functions and all sorts of crazy things. I told the team they were crazy - how could anyone work with this?" ...
21:31:01 <SimonRC> ... "They replied that I shouldn't be programming in assembly and I should let the compiler take care of it."
21:33:59 <SimonRC> .'. There is nothing wrong with code generation *if* you treat the generated code as a form of object/intermediate code.
21:34:33 <ihope> There's nothing wrong with code generation if you never look at the code it generates?
21:35:01 <SimonRC> e.g.: /* This code is machine generated. You should not edit this code, for the same reason that you do not edit compiler output. */
21:35:23 <SimonRC> Don't put it in source control, either.
21:35:54 <SimonRC> Treat it with the same rules as any other intermediate code.
21:36:10 * SimonRC continues to ramble in this way for several minutes.
21:36:28 <lindi-> and yet people still put binaries to CVS
21:37:03 <SimonRC> That is asking for trouble, IMHO.
21:37:13 <lindi-> SimonRC: yes and makes building from source very difficult
21:37:37 <lindi-> SimonRC: an average java "source" arhive includes 3-10 jar files for dependencies
21:38:01 <SimonRC> Makefiles are quite capable of expressing the relationship between code-generator input and code-generator output.
21:38:13 <SimonRC> They are good for all *sorts* of stuff.
21:41:02 <SimonRC> Oh, BTW, one-shot code generation is not bad.
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00:02:14 <calamari> I was frozen with fear for 5 minutes
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00:23:10 <SimonRC> (on the FASTRAND magnetic-drum extrnal storage device): " The FASTRAND II was the second member of the FASTRAND family, and by far the most common. The ill-fated FASTRAND I had only one rotating drum and half the storage capacity. A single massive drum rotating almost 15 times a second acts as a powerful gyroscope which tries to stay in a fixed location with respect to the distant stars. Unfortunately, the Earth rotates, and this leads to a conflict betw
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00:23:58 <ihope> External storage device?
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02:07:21 <ihope> Bling bling bling!
02:08:07 <ihope> Dz-dz-dzzt dz-dzzt, dz-dz-dzzt dz-dzzt!
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07:13:41 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA
07:14:11 <GregorR> I'm fine now that my CS350 final is over X-P
07:20:19 <GregorR> Algorithms and Complexity.
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07:33:23 <nooga> I didn't touch giki :|
07:48:29 <nooga> i've got some work for $$ to do
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14:58:55 * ihope writes a better Pager
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15:00:16 <ihope> Let's see... carat eh?
15:01:21 <ihope> Ouch, she borkjed.
15:01:57 <ihope> Okay, good enough, right? ^> is a carat, ^m is carriage return, ^j is newline...
15:04:12 <ihope> ^ adds 32 to the character after it.
15:04:21 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
15:04:23 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
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16:49:09 <ihope> So what's the optimal compression thingy for BF-SC?
16:49:31 <ihope> And did I ever post the definition of F-TR1?
16:54:20 <ihope> Okay. F-TR1 doesn't have first-class functions, therefore it is Extremely Ugly, Oh No@
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20:50:32 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,[<->++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++].<[-]+]
20:50:44 <ihope> !pager D o e s i t w o r k ?
20:52:40 <ihope> !pager Or is it broken? Am I breaking it right now?
20:53:00 <int-e> [<->++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++] is broken
20:53:07 <ihope> !pager !j@j#j$j%j^j&j*j !j@j#j$j%j^j&j*j
20:53:10 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
20:53:35 <int-e> it was stuck in an infinite loop ;)
20:54:18 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++>]>.<[-]+]
20:54:37 <ihope> !pager D o e s i t w o r k n o w ?
20:55:02 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++ ++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
20:55:13 <ihope> @pager H o w a b o u t n o w ?
20:55:58 <ihope> !pager H o w a b o u t n o w ?
20:59:40 <ihope> No, that won't work.
21:00:04 * ihope kills himself a few more times
21:00:32 * ihope does it one more time...
21:00:45 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION laughs at ihope<CTCP>"I*:-P z-P ``
21:01:11 <ihope> It should be fixied.
21:01:27 <GregorR> !pager Then Gregor broke it again.
21:01:46 * int-e doesn't understand ihope's obsession with that particular pager.
21:01:57 <ihope> int-e: write me a better one, then
21:02:02 <GregorR> Yeah, a more robust pager would be nice :P
21:02:27 <ihope> !pager Then ihope made an attempt at fixing it.
21:02:44 <GregorR> That line is a registered trademark.
21:02:49 <GregorR> Don't copy it, that's against the law.
21:03:04 <ihope> So clog is illegal now...
21:03:18 <int-e> èG¥O`²KÀaAÊèioemÀaô ta )i'i® is a registered trademark of EgoBot
21:03:48 <ihope> !daemon anonymous +[,.[-]+]
21:04:24 <ihope> !daemon anonymous bf +[,.[-]+]
21:04:34 <EgoBot> A more robust pager. :-)
21:05:03 <EgoBot> I LOVE PR0N0GRA-FEEEEEEEE
21:07:18 <EgoBot> Now, what if I did an /alias anonymous msg EgoBot !anonymous?
21:07:44 <EgoBot> I imagine that would make anonymous messaging easy.
21:07:49 <GregorR> By the way, it's not very anonymous, since I have logs.
21:07:55 <GregorR> It's only anonymous to everybody other than myself.
21:08:52 <GregorR> I love your VERSION response, int-e X-P
21:08:55 <EgoBot> ¡Hasta manzana! *attempts to leave, but fails*
21:09:05 <int-e> ok, here's a challenge: write a slow cat, one that only outputs one line for every second input line.
21:09:36 <int-e> try a time request ;)
21:10:04 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
21:12:42 <ihope> A time request? You mean CTCP?
21:13:00 <ihope> EgoBot can't respond to those.
21:13:04 <GregorR> 13:17:59 -- CTCP TIME reply from int-e: two days after the day before yesterday
21:13:20 <int-e> just me being silly
21:13:27 <int-e> it's an x-chat if anyone cares.
21:13:33 <ihope> Now what was that other one...
21:14:22 <int-e> I don't think I answer those, ihope.
21:14:31 <ihope> It seems you don't.
21:15:52 <int-e> !daemon slow bf >+[[>+>,----------]>+>+[>+>,----------]<[<<]>->->[++++++++++.>->]>->>[>>]+>+]
21:16:50 <int-e> oh. maybe I should print newlines, too
21:17:58 <ihope> Yes, print the newlines :-P
21:18:14 <int-e> !daemon slow bf >+[[>+>,----------]>+>+[>+>,----------]<[<<]>[[-]>->++++++++++.----------]>->>[>>]+>+]
21:18:19 <ihope> I wonder how these show up in
21:18:44 <int-e> you get the idea :)
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21:24:36 <ihope> !slow 13th line <- I can't count
21:26:10 <EgoBot> I can eat memory though.
21:26:36 <EgoBot> 13th line <- I can't count
21:26:37 <GregorR> At which point, you'll get "realloc: Cannot allocate memory"
21:27:05 <EgoBot> Next I'll consume this computer.
21:27:10 <EgoBot> It's not slow anymore. 14th line, by the way.
21:27:20 <EgoBot> And then I'll be all that exists.
21:27:36 <EgoBot> Don't you feel pity for me?
21:28:00 <EgoBot> I wonder if I'm making sense.
21:28:12 <EgoBot> But I rather suspect that I don't
21:28:32 <EgoBot> Because there's more than one person feeding me with senseless stuff.
21:28:39 <EgoBot> What do you know... I can count!
21:28:58 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
21:29:00 <EgoBot> 2 int-e: daemon slow bf
21:29:03 <EgoBot> 3 ihope: daemon anonymous bf
21:29:08 <ihope> Write a slow pager!
21:29:28 <int-e> it was slow. I just force-feeded it lots of periods at the end.
21:31:06 <int-e> and it's certainly more robust than your silly pager thingy ;)
21:31:21 <int-e> sure, feed cookies to the bot.
21:31:32 <int-e> bot gotta live, too
21:31:57 <ihope> !a cookie is a thing that you can eat
21:32:53 <ihope> !http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat
21:40:40 <int-e> !daemon cookie bf >>+[>,----------]<[++++++++++<]>[-]<+[>+[,----------]<[<+>->>[.>]<[<]<]<[>+<-]++++++++++.[-]>+]
21:41:13 <EgoBot> Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!
21:41:52 <int-e> The string 'Crunch' is not encoded in that program.
21:42:11 <EgoBot> Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!
21:42:21 <int-e> "/msg EgoBot !cookie Crunch! " was my first command.
21:42:55 <EgoBot> Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!
21:43:12 * GregorR claps his hands like an infant.
21:43:38 <int-e> the really funny thing is that this program worked the first time that I tried it :)
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21:53:10 <ihope> Russian roulette time...
21:53:36 <ihope> Let's do that again...
21:54:01 -!- ihope has left (?).
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21:54:34 <ihope> Luckily, IRC isn't a permadeath protocol.
21:55:01 * SimonRC would join in, but likes his 30Meg of scrollback
21:56:22 * ihope tries to implement Russian Roulette in BF via Blum Blum Shub
21:59:50 * ihope decides not to, because that would be too complicated :-P
22:00:51 <EgoBot> Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!
22:03:20 <int-e> !bf >-[>++++++++++<[->->+<[>>>]>[[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]++++++[->++++++++<]>>]<[.[-]<<<]
22:04:33 <int-e> !bf8 >-[>++++++++++<[->->+<[>>>]>[[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]++++++[->++++++++<]>>]<[.[-]<<<]
22:07:22 <ihope> !bf32 >-[>++++++++++<[->->+<[>>>]>[[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]++++++[->++++++++<]>>]<[.[-]<<<]
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22:18:42 <ihope> Was it counting to 4294967295?
22:19:04 <GregorR> It was taking 100% of my CPU, that's all I know :P
22:20:59 <int-e> it was executing the [->->+<[>>>]>[[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<] look 4294967295 times
22:21:39 <ihope> !bf7 >-[>++++++++++<[->->+<[>>>]>[[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]++++++[->++++++++<]>>]<[.[-]<<<]
22:22:12 <int-e> which may actually be cheaper than it looks, but it's still 25 bf operations per loop./
22:22:18 <ihope> It took that long?
22:31:49 <int-e> !bf16 +>>-[[[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->[-]>>+<<]]]]]]]]]]<]<[>]>+++++++[>+++++++<-]>>>]<<-[.<<<-]++++++++++.
22:33:17 <int-e> that one is faster, but I don't know if that's fast enough.
22:33:30 <int-e> !bf32 +>>-[[[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->+<[->[-]>>+<<]]]]]]]]]]<]<[>]>+++++++[>+++++++<-]>>>]<<-[.<<<-]++++++++++.
22:39:28 <EgoBot> Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!
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23:51:56 <ihope> Would Unlambda's c combinator run faster with a quantum interpreter?
23:55:26 <int-e> No, because unlambda specifies sequential execution ... you need to get the side effects in the correct order.
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00:22:09 <ihope> So one prominent BF strategy is to stick all your arrays and stuff on just the "even" spaces, and leave the "odd" ones for temporary stuff?
00:22:15 <ihope> That gives me an idea...
00:22:46 <GregorR> Those are called walk cells, by the way.
00:24:08 <ihope> And you just coined that term? :-)
00:24:18 <GregorR> Nah, I'm sure I've heard it before :-P
00:24:26 <GregorR> Because you use it to /walk/ through the array to the desired location.
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15:48:20 <GregorR> ...."Have you mooed today?"...
15:50:16 <GregorR> It's nice to know the Debian developers have a ridiculous sense of humor.
15:50:45 <GregorR> The following packages contain moo:
15:50:54 <GregorR> ^ Difinitive proof that Debian is better than Mandriva X-P
15:51:23 <GregorR> bash: urpmmoo: command not found
15:55:10 <ihope> Did you see that one Pepsi ad?
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20:54:00 <ihope> The lift is being fixed for the next day. During that time we regret that you will be unbearable.
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20:56:10 <ihope> Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation.
20:58:34 <ihope> Please do not feed the animals. If you have any suitable food, give it to the guard on duty.
20:59:36 <ihope> Ladies may have a fit upstairs.
20:59:51 <ihope> Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the hours of 9 and 11 am daily.
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21:45:26 <kipple_> anyone else unable to edit the wiki?
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21:47:49 <ihope> Oh, right, I get to join the jix club now with my own "incorrect" foreign language quit message...
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01:56:45 <ihope> Grr. I can't log on to the wiki to revert this vandalism.
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03:28:46 <ihope> 10:27:23 <ihope> Okay. Now "qn" means "who", "q" means "what", "pq" means "why", "c" means "how", "cd" means "when", "dn" means "where", "cl" means "which" and "ct" means "how much".
03:28:54 <ihope> 10:27:40 <ihope> "q" vs. "cl" is a bit iffy.
03:28:59 <ihope> 10:28:17 <ihope> Oh, and "c" can also mean "huh?"
03:29:37 <GregorR-L> ihope: A man with a plan a plan that involves no punctuation
03:30:10 <ihope> ACK MAN ASD PUN ESD
03:30:41 <ihope> It is also gibberish
03:30:50 <ihope> Okay I can avoid punctuation just fine
03:31:07 <ihope> The problem is knowing whether or not something is punctuation
03:31:23 <ihope> Now let me repeat I AM SLEEP HAVE A NICE DAY
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20:16:10 <ihope> SO MUCH CONVERSATION!
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20:38:56 <ihope> Your name is root? How strange.
20:40:38 <RoboGregorR> Actually, I'm in a chroot and am too lazy to adduser ;)
20:41:08 <ihope> Oh, right! I was going to finish that factorial function of mine...
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20:42:49 <ihope> Coprime, coprime, coprime.
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21:00:11 <fuse> what's going on?
21:04:29 <ihope> Bits are going back and forth between the IRC servers and the many clients connected to them.
21:05:30 <fuse> what a waste of bandwidth.
21:06:10 <fuse> ihope: ever read 'the haskell road to logic, maths and programming'?
21:08:10 <fuse> i got it in... ahem... machine-readable format the other day. it looks pretty good.
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23:46:47 <int-e> nowhere, apparently :/
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00:27:34 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
00:30:07 <ihope> New release on Ice! /me checks it out
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02:02:56 <nooga> you know, it's 03:03 at night
02:03:15 <nooga> thank god I have LCD display :D
02:03:33 <nooga> and tea with guarana :D
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02:48:41 <ihope> Oh noes, I'm dead.
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16:36:12 <ihope> Okay. Let's see here...
16:36:51 <ihope> We have things like 2 9 4. Let's add an operator, to make stuff like 2 5 >.
16:37:48 <ihope> Then we can add another operator: 2 5 > |.
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20:36:52 <ihope> SimonRC: it's an extension to F-TR1. I call it F-TR2.
20:45:06 <ihope> What would happen if I sent a /dcc-chat to an entire channel?
20:45:53 <ihope> I assume everyone would get mad at me.
20:46:04 <ihope> More so than if I sent a notice to that channel.
20:46:50 <ihope> Now, could a client freaking out upon reciept of a notice be considered a bug?\
20:48:21 <SimonRC> I don't know wha a notice is, or really understand DCC.
20:55:07 <SimonRC> ihope: ah, a notice like the stuff lilo sends out
20:55:21 <ihope> Yeah, but not global.
20:58:42 <SimonRC> I think the notice vs msg thing is a bit odd.
20:59:54 <SimonRC> one slightly less powerful
20:59:55 <ihope> Well, much of the point was to keep bots from replying to each other when they shouldn't.
21:00:05 <ihope> <bot1> @help <command>
21:00:10 <ihope> <bot2> @help <command>
21:00:18 <ihope> <bot2> @help <command>
21:00:53 <ihope> Instead, it's "<user> @help help", then "-bot1- @help <command>".
21:01:06 <ihope> Then other bots don't reply.
21:01:40 <ihope> And that's because of the broken clients.
21:18:12 <SimonRC> Thank god many clients don't seem to have easy color support.
21:19:16 <GregorR> The only ones I know of that do are mIRC and ChatZilla :P
21:20:02 <SimonRC> if you call ^C00 to ^C15 easy, that is
21:21:19 <SimonRC> .msg ChanServ SET KICK_ON_COLOR TRUE
21:23:44 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
21:24:11 <ihope> !pager %c 0 3 > : - D
21:25:57 <SimonRC> erm, I think ^C is just a shortcut, not the character sent
21:28:06 <ihope> RFC 1459 doesn't contain anything about that (I think :-P) if that's what you mean...
21:28:40 <ihope> So yes, ^C *is* the character sent...
21:28:58 <ihope> But over here, it showed a U with ^ over it.
21:29:54 <ihope> If that thing shifts to the right by 5 pages...
21:30:31 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
21:30:40 <ihope> !pager %c 0 3 > : - D
21:30:47 <ihope> There, that wored.
21:31:28 <ihope> Not only that, but it worked.
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00:40:50 <ihope> I need an emoticon with a guy that's raising his eyebrows, and sorta leaning back a bit.
00:41:03 <ihope> All in text format, with a maximum of 3 characters...
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02:06:59 <ihope> Now, the phrase "muchas muchachas" sounds very :-).
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14:40:58 <ihope> So . is infixr 9, right?
14:57:02 <int-e> you can use :info (.) in ghci to find that out (yes it is).
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15:05:35 <ihope> int-e: :info . will work too
15:05:48 <ihope> This doesn't work, though:
15:06:09 <lynxtor> is this a language, or console commands
15:06:09 <ihope> Hmm, thought I was in #haskell.
15:06:32 <ihope> Haskell is a programming language...
15:09:09 <ihope> It is, however, one of the most "different" programming languages I know.
15:10:33 <lynxtor> anyway, i was thinking about writing a brainfuck to C "compiler"
15:10:52 <lynxtor> BF to C would be incredibly simple :)
15:11:48 <lynxtor> I know it's possible... it started off with me thinking about how functions would operate in BF
15:15:11 <ihope> Say... has anybody ever needed a 3-walk thingy?
15:24:22 <lynxtor> (Excuse my n00bishness... I'm 18, and I only recently got into the esolang scene)
15:24:50 <ihope> Well, I pretty much just made up the term :-P
15:25:08 <lynxtor> Heh, then how would people know what it was?
15:25:47 <ihope> That's when a BF program uses every third space for "normal" memory, reserving another third of them for subroutines and the last third for sub-subroutines.
15:27:04 <lynxtor> Well... I haven't programmed enough in BF to use subroutines, but I envisioned that it would happen anyway
15:27:11 * ihope writes "How to Emulate BF in BF"
15:27:50 <ihope> Well, I oughta revert this vandalism.
15:28:04 <lynxtor> where? i want to see it before it gets deleted
15:28:33 <ihope> You'll be able to see it in the history, even if it gets reverted.
15:28:42 <SimonRC> how far has GregorR got with c2bf
15:29:13 <SimonRC> you may get more relevent bf stufff on ##brainfuck
15:29:13 <ihope> The pages are Y, Var, Var'aq, HQ9 Plus, BF instruction minimalization and Dumbf*ck.
15:29:29 <ihope> I still can't edit the wiki.
15:30:23 <ihope> There are THIRTEEN unreverted vandalisms.
15:32:31 <lynxtor> if someone were to make a BF cpu, how would it handle the loops? it couldn't use jmps and a program counter like a "normal" CPU, it would have to read in the entire program and store the loop endings somewhere?
15:33:18 <ihope> Why not just use the jumps and stuff?
15:34:00 <lynxtor> because normally jumps affect the program counter register, but there's no such thing in BF
15:34:20 <lynxtor> and using jumps would be un-BFlike :P
15:35:07 <ihope> Well, BF uses while loops.
15:35:44 <lynxtor> the best kind of loop IMO :)
15:36:06 <ihope> BF-SC uses untils...
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15:39:02 <ihope> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF-SC
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15:52:26 <lynxtor> so GregorR's working on CtoBF? I thought calamari was doing that
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16:14:39 <SimonRC> Anyway, you can handle BF loops with a simple stack
16:15:47 <lynxtor> i was thinking of designing a BF cpu... but before I do that, I want to make an emulator for it
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19:56:07 <ihope> int-e: how'd you do that?
19:57:06 <ihope> Or bullet, or what?
19:57:47 * int-e wonders which unicode character that was
19:58:11 <ihope> So it wasn't an ASCII BEL?
19:59:04 <ihope> !bf +++++++. <- ASCII BEL
19:59:15 <ihope> Okay, enough beeping.
20:07:15 <ihope> Now let's see here...
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20:28:44 <ihope> Ahh. I love PuTTYtel.
20:29:18 <ihope> I can't say it's easier to use than ChatZilla, but it's quite nice.
20:30:27 <int-e> hum. doesn't answering all those Pongs get annoying?
20:30:53 <ihope> I don't get them very often.
20:32:14 <ihope> Maybe once I finish EagleBot (like that's ever going to happen), I'll use that as a chat client.
20:44:41 <ihope> http://dontclick.it/
20:51:03 <ihope> So it looks like the proper syntax thingy is PONG ihope :brown.freenode.net
21:09:36 <ihope> I expect to lag out once the next PONG doesn't happen... :-)
21:09:56 <ihope> Well, I suppose I ought to work on EagleBot.
21:10:09 <ihope> Then I can... well, you know the drill.
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00:18:58 <SimonRC> "cat .bash_history | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | head -10 | fmt"
00:19:34 <SimonRC> "65 ls 53 cd 47 man 39 sudo 20 ps 18 cat 16 apropos 15 telnet 15 less 14 w3m" on one box
00:19:53 <SimonRC> "65 ghc 52 ./a.out 46 darcs 43 telnet 41 ls 34 fg 20 ghc-6.2.2 19 cd 18 less 11 screen" on another
00:20:44 <GregorR> Argh, joke ruined by my own incompetence :(
00:20:50 <puzzlet_> $ cat ~/.bash_history | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | head -10 | fmt
00:20:56 <puzzlet_> 45 javac 22 cd 17 ls 15 ping 13 apt-cache 10 exit
00:21:11 <GregorR> 90 make 61 ./inst/bin/oklik 58 rm 39 zcat 35 j 32 g++ 24 ./ok 22 mv
00:21:25 <GregorR> I do a lot of file listing :P
00:22:27 <SimonRC> puzzlet_: why do you compile a huga amount of java but run very little?
00:22:35 <GregorR> oklik is my rewrite of klik with some major changes. Basically, you select a Debian package and it grabs the list of dependencies, prunes it to only what is necessary for your system, then makes an appdir of the package.
00:22:57 <GregorR> ok was an old name for oklik, decided it would be presumptuous to take that namesapce ;)
00:23:04 <GregorR> j is a text editor unfortunately written in Java :(
00:23:18 <GregorR> (Because it's otherwise a great editor)
00:23:37 * SimonRC thought GregorR was the java nut
00:24:14 <GregorR> The level with which I hate Java is a bit ridiculous ;)
00:24:15 <puzzlet_> my university homework was coding something with Java
00:24:52 <SimonRC> Our AI prof let us use any lang we liked for our AI.
00:25:32 <SimonRC> one of my friends used C and python.
00:25:43 <GregorR> Despite the fact that I love C :P
00:25:44 <SimonRC> he managed to get some time on the Uni's supercomputer.
00:26:38 <SimonRC> lupin (his box) could manage 12 cities in reasonable time
00:27:21 <SimonRC> hamilton (the uni computer in a top secret location only given away by the biggest set of aircon units you have ever seen) could do 15.
00:27:28 <SimonRC> oops, I meant 10 for lupin
00:28:02 <SimonRC> He calculates that the whole of Google could probably do 19 in a few hours.
00:28:27 <SimonRC> every computr in the world, 21 would still be a push
00:32:03 <SimonRC> you know what the running time of brute-forcing the TSP is#
00:32:31 <SimonRC> his other two algos were better
00:33:12 <puzzlet_> ah, what i didn't get was "brute-forcing"
00:36:32 <puzzlet_> is O(n!) equivalent to O(n^n) or not?
00:37:29 <SimonRC> n! =aprox= n^n*e^-n*sqrt(2*pi*n)
00:38:17 <SimonRC> e^-n is *not a very constant factor
00:38:34 <GregorR> Erm, sorry, not in theta >_>
00:38:38 <GregorR> It's in big O and very close.
00:40:00 <puzzlet_> how did you get that approx equality?
00:40:11 <SimonRC> 18,447,644,073,309,551,616 <-- is it scary that I know 2^64 off by hear?
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07:54:36 <lynxtor> does anyone know about the C to BF project?
07:55:19 <lynxtor> does it have a webpage? like sourceforge or something?
07:55:36 <GregorR> No, just an SVN repository at the moment.
07:56:19 <GregorR> I'm curious how you heard of it, in fact ...
07:56:59 <lynxtor> i was thinking of doing it myself, but once i found out someone else was working on it, i didn't bother
07:57:02 <lynxtor> i looked up "C to Brainfuck" on google
07:57:03 * GregorR is shocked that it's even findable on Google >_>
07:57:09 <GregorR> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brainfuck/c2bf/trunk/ is the SVN repo by the way.
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08:01:26 <GregorR> Oh, I see, idle references from earlier are findable on Google.
08:01:37 <GregorR> AFAIK, I'm the only one who's written anything in that realm.
08:01:41 <GregorR> It's not fully functional, mind you.
08:01:57 <GregorR> Still much work to be done once the wheel-o'-Gregor's-attention lands on C2BF again.
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08:14:40 <lynxtor> i guess i'll write my SHBF CPU emulator instead
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08:23:10 <GregorR> My Arrogant is so arrogant because of frustration from his unstable network connection.
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14:11:02 <Keymaker> hmh. "You don't have permission to access /w/index.php on this server." i haven't been able to edit esowiki for days
14:11:23 <Keymaker> well, there's some reverting to do, for someone
14:11:40 <kipple> me neither. Have been able to do roll-backs but nothing else
14:11:47 <kipple> anyone seen graue lately?
14:12:39 <kipple> it's one of the super-powers you get when you're a sysop ;)
14:13:49 <kipple> very handy when reverting spam
14:14:19 <Keymaker> i always need to check earlier version, copy stuff, go to current version, edit, save..
14:14:52 <kipple> yeah, more people should get sysop privileges
14:15:18 <kipple> reverting an article is only two mouseclicks from the recent changes page :)
14:15:41 <Keymaker> ah. handy. then, can you revert the spam out?
14:16:01 <kipple> I am doing it right now
14:17:24 <kipple> argh. it doesn't work when the article has been spammed twice
14:17:31 <kipple> can only rollback to previous :(
14:18:44 <Keymaker> it's amusing that popular problem page lists a palindrome program as a popular type of program. i have never even seen one :D
14:19:06 <kipple> the problem is more popular than the solution I guess
14:20:11 <kipple> but why are the spammers able to edit the wiki and we aren't??
14:20:24 <kipple> I'll send graue an email
14:20:25 <Keymaker> that is indeed a pretty good question..
14:20:42 <Keymaker> i hope the spambots haven't taken over the server some way
14:27:20 <kipple> ok. mail sent. let's hope graue can figure it out
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15:18:29 <kipple> the wiki is working again :)
15:19:43 <Keymaker> hmm, i wonder what i was about to edit.. :p
15:25:19 <kipple> the problem was a bug in a mod_security rule, so no, the spammers hasn't taken over :)
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13:27:08 <ihope> So far there has been ONE chat message since last night.
13:27:26 <kipple> well, now we've tripled it!
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21:06:30 <ihope_> Tell me how terrible this looks: P?-)
21:08:08 <Sgeo> Is the think after the P supposed to be a question mark?
21:08:31 <Sgeo> Konversation s***s
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22:37:01 <ihope_> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Sed consequat. Vestibulum semper ultricies justo. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Cras pede. Fusce elementum nunc nec sem. Curabitur egestas magna ac mi. Aenean nisi libero, pulvinar ac, tincidunt aliquet, rhoncus ut, mauris. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Phasellus gravida. Nunc mattis molestie metus. Aliquam erat v
22:37:14 <ihope_> el, consectetuer eget, augue. Maecenas adipiscing turpis pharetra lorem. Etiam viverra. Maecenas ante lacus, lobortis at, cursus in, facilisis vitae, lacus.
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06:11:28 <nooga> a noisy noise annoys an oyster
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07:02:46 <GregorR> We had a second of anarchy there :P
07:03:29 <calamari> glad the channel survived it ;)
07:10:07 <nooga> a noisy noise annoys an oyster
07:12:27 <GregorR> That would work better if the adjoining vowel didn't change.
07:13:20 <GregorR> Maybe with a different accent it would be more effective 8-X
07:13:59 <GregorR> Uh noy zee noy zuh noy za (hard a) noy ster
07:14:46 <nooga> chrzszcz brzmi w trzcinie w strzebrzeszynie :D
07:24:53 <nooga> try to beat that ;]
07:25:56 <nooga> like 'a' and ',' combined
07:26:41 <nooga> http://www.langcent.arts.gla.ac.uk/images/timesce.gif
07:27:53 <nooga> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Polish-alphabet.png here's whole alphabet
07:28:39 <GregorR> Weird that that's where that's hiding O_O
07:29:46 <nooga> trzeszcza trzewiki po szosach suszonych ...
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14:57:21 <lynxtor> hey gregorR, do you have AIM/MSN?
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21:13:09 <ihope> Ugh, I hate XiRCON and am using it,
21:16:33 <Sgeo> What's XiRCON?
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14:45:02 <lament> first brazilian in space!
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15:03:01 <ihope> You're Marcos Pontes?
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15:11:20 <ihope> So you're the one going into space, not Pontes?
15:16:06 <ihope> How high up are you?
15:16:50 <lament> pretty high i would say.
15:19:19 <ihope> What shape is a spacial orbit of one body in the gravitational field of two fixed bodies?
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16:40:59 <ihope_> Aha, so "teledon" is the correct spelling.
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16:41:43 <ihope_> Now, what's a teledon?
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15:39:06 * Keymaker leaves.. to London for a week :) bye!
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17:52:10 <ihope> http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/getavatar?memberid=6276 <- weird
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