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00:11:09 <ihope> ?ACTION does something that won't work?
00:11:34 <GregorR> ^$&($#@@ACTION it's just chr(1), ihope $&#@()#^@&($#@^$*(#@&$(*#
00:12:24 <ihope> !kill 1
00:12:27 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
00:12:52 <ihope> Hmm.
00:12:59 * ihope wonders what he just killed
00:13:36 <ihope> Apparently I didn't kill what I wanted to kill
00:13:39 <ihope> Oh well.
00:14:01 <ihope> +.++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>>+++++.++.<------.>++++++.++++++.-.<<++.>++++++++++++++.+++.+++++++.+++.-.<<--.>>+++++.<.>+.-----.<.<++.-.>>.+.<<---.>.>--.+.++++++++.<.<---------------------------------------.----.-------------.----. [-]+.
00:14:02 <GregorR> Probably kill
00:14:02 <GregorR> !ps
00:14:06 <EgoBot> 1 GregorR: ps
00:14:13 <GregorR> Yeah, you probably killed kill.
00:14:18 <ihope> :-)
00:14:32 <ihope> Well, I think I booched it.
00:14:39 <ihope> Anyway... /me points up
00:16:35 <GregorR> Booched ...?
00:16:43 <GregorR> !bf8 +.++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>>+++++.++.<------.>++++++.++++++.-.<<++.>++++++++++++++.+++.+++++++.+++.-.<<--.>>+++++.<.>+.-----.<.<++.-.>>.+.<<---.>.>--.+.++++++++.<.<---------------------------------------.----.-------------.----. [-]+.
00:16:44 <GregorR> Oh
00:16:47 <GregorR> It'll be an ACTION.
00:16:50 <ihope> Booched!
00:16:51 * EgoBot belongs to ihope now >:-)
00:17:00 <ihope> :-P
00:17:35 <ihope> !help ps
00:17:40 <EgoBot> Use: ps  Function: display the current processes
00:17:41 <ihope> !help ps d
00:17:47 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program>  Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
00:17:50 <ihope> Meh.
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00:36:38 <GregorR> That was excitingl
00:36:41 <GregorR> s/l/./
00:37:31 <ihope> I think it was my fault.
00:37:43 <ihope> 16:27:21 <ihope> > ((+) >>= const) 2 3
00:37:43 <ihope> 16:27:24 --- quit: integral (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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00:37:43 <ihope> 16:27:24 --- quit: ulfdoz (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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00:37:47 <ihope> Etc. etc.
00:38:05 <GregorR> lol
00:38:52 <ihope> I'd like a network where those happened on a regular basis.
00:38:59 <ihope> Preferably every five minutes or so.
00:39:00 <calamari> I hate c :(
00:39:06 <GregorR> ihope: So, EFNet.
00:39:13 <GregorR> calamari: I LOVE C ^^
00:39:58 <calamari> GregorR: I would have had this homework done hours ago if I was using python (read: if I wasn't so bad at c)
00:40:50 <ihope> I heard Python is... THE language.
00:41:17 * ihope merges Python and Haskell into an esoteric language
00:41:47 <GregorR> Python has an obnoxious syntax.
00:42:04 <GregorR> I just can't stand the fact that there's no block-ending notation other than "there are less spaces here"
00:42:24 <ihope> No inline notation?
00:42:33 <ihope> Sounds fun!
00:42:40 <calamari> even with that I am more productive in python than c
00:42:42 <GregorR> ihope: Blocks and such are segmented with indentation.
00:42:58 <calamari> and of course more productive in java than either
00:43:02 <GregorR> I wouldn't even mind the segmenting with indentation so much if blocks were ended.
00:43:42 <calamari> yeah, even basic has END IF :)
00:44:04 <calamari> just pretend you're coding a makefile, heh
00:44:14 <GregorR> >_<
00:44:16 <GregorR> I hate makefiles.
00:44:19 <ihope> Hmm, how about parentheses?
00:44:20 * GregorR huggles automake
00:54:44 <GregorR> *chirp chirp*
00:54:54 <GregorR> Pretty similar to other languages in that respect.
00:55:00 <GregorR> IIRC, function calls can be made without ...?
00:57:46 <ihope> Function calls can be made without ASCII art.
00:59:11 <kipple> what's this? a guessing game?
00:59:45 <GregorR> lol
00:59:54 <GregorR> I was hoping that "parentheses" was obvious there.
01:00:14 <kipple> function calls can be made without a phone
01:01:00 <kipple> a language where function calls _can't_ be made without ASCII art could be interesting :P
01:01:34 <GregorR> If you ever want to see a C2Kipple you'd better hush :P
01:01:52 <ihope> Kipple's Turing-complete?
01:02:03 <kipple> yep
01:02:24 <ihope> Cool!
01:02:39 <ihope> Can you give me the first 10 ternary digits of Graham's number?
01:03:20 <kipple> syntax error
01:03:37 <GregorR> Damn IRP interpreter's broken ...
01:03:46 <ihope> The answer: 1000000000
01:03:54 <ihope> Or 100, if you want.
01:04:27 <ihope> In ternary, Graham's number is 1 followed by Many, Many 0's(TM)
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01:35:14 <ihope> Grumble grumble mumble grumble?
01:35:22 <ihope> AHA!
01:36:14 <GregorR> You've just found the meaning of life?
01:57:50 <lament> sound synthesis makes no sense
01:58:35 <ihope> Sound synthesis makes sound!
01:58:54 <lament> not when i try doing it :)
01:59:17 <ihope> Noise can be sound.
01:59:24 <ihope> Just not good sound.
02:01:50 <kipple> noise can be good too :)
02:03:48 <ihope> I'm rich! I'm rich!
02:03:52 <ihope> $4.73
02:04:13 <GregorR> WOAAAAAAAAAH
02:05:47 <ihope> I'm a millionaire, for low values of 1,000,000.
02:06:04 <lament> i make two sounds
02:06:10 <lament> one at 220Hz, one at 330
02:06:19 <lament> i add one to the other, expecting to hear both of them
02:06:30 <lament> instead, what i get is a single sound at 550 Hz!
02:06:35 <ihope> !
02:06:38 <EgoBot> Huh?
02:06:49 <lament> EgoBot: i agree!
02:07:20 <ihope> Hmm. It should be a sound at 275Hz with a beat of...
02:08:04 <lament> how do i get two sounds?
02:08:10 <ihope> [insert lesser time gap here]
02:09:39 <ihope> Well, I suppose you can just figure out what the sum of the two sounds is.
02:09:50 <ihope> It's a sound at 275Hz with a beat of...
02:10:18 <lament> if instead of adding the sounds, i play them in separate channels
02:10:27 <lament> then it does NOT sound like 550Hz
02:10:32 <lament> what does the mixer do that i don't?
02:11:01 <ihope> A beat of 55Hz!
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04:16:05 <calamari> bah.. it connects to localhost but not anywhere else :(
04:16:26 <calamari> thought I was done, hehe
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04:42:38 <Sgeo> Bye all
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16:52:40 <jix> GregorR: any updates on c2bf
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18:07:55 <calamari> hi
18:08:15 <jix> moin
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18:51:48 <jix> moin GregorR-L 
18:52:23 <GregorR-L> 'lo jix
18:54:00 <jix> GregorR-L: any progress on c2bf?
18:54:14 <GregorR-L> Yeah, I'm working on arrays n' pointers right now.
18:54:45 <GregorR-L> Though yesterday I took a break to finally record GRegor-op8.ogg
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19:32:44 <{^Raven^}> calamari: What should PESOIX-EsoAPI do for disk access calls?
19:33:53 <{^Raven^}> Making them access a user specified disk image seems the most logical
19:34:28 <{^Raven^}> course of action
19:35:23 <calamari> up to you I suppose
19:35:32 <calamari> I was directly accessing the floppy
19:38:43 <{^Raven^}> Low level disk access would be non-trivial due to the portability requirement
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19:39:34 <calamari> does pesoix given file i/o ability ?
19:39:42 <calamari> given -> give
19:40:14 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX-Easel allows file manipulation
19:41:56 <nooga> PESOIX?
19:42:01 <nooga> btw. hi all
19:42:08 <{^Raven^}> hey nooga
19:42:41 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX - A mad idea {^Raven^} had one day about making esoteric languages more useful in the real world
19:43:30 <nooga> haha... my newest idea is a language in which IDs and keywords will rhyme
19:43:41 <{^Raven^}> It works with any esolang that has i/o capabilities
19:44:16 <nooga> so: brute = 5; cute == 5
19:44:28 <nooga> IF can be BEEF
19:45:23 <nooga> {^Raven^}: can you say something more?
19:46:11 <calamari> Raven: which came first, easel or esoapi ?
19:46:18 <calamari> I can't remember, lol
19:47:57 <{^Raven^}> calamari: IIRC EsoAPI
19:48:44 <calamari> although I didn't come up with the idea.. there was that bfi interpreter that used video buffer memory 
19:48:52 <calamari> bfi -> bf
19:48:55 <{^Raven^}> nooga: PESOIX is an operating system abstraction layer for esoteric programming languages which provides methods for an esoteric program to interact with the host computer
19:49:16 <calamari> and we discussed it withthe original eso
19:49:21 <calamari> eso os 
19:49:45 <calamari> I even developed an api for it.. but people lost interest
19:50:23 <{^Raven^}> I'm not really sure what the market is for PESOIX.
19:50:58 <calamari> well, c2bf could use it
19:50:59 <nooga> hm hm
19:51:13 <{^Raven^}> calamari: well... that goes without saying
19:51:41 <calamari> it could use command line stuff too.. does pesoix handle that?
19:52:15 <calamari> we could enhance bfbasic as well
19:52:36 <calamari> although.. I think for it to gain more acceptance, some of the non-essential functions should be removed
19:52:50 <calamari> for example, if it could be computed, however slowly
19:53:45 <{^Raven^}> calamari: you're absolutely right
19:53:46 <calamari> but no matter how much computation I do, I can't read a real file with bf, or find out what time it is, etc
19:54:49 <calamari> so I guess it'd be more like posix
19:55:28 <calamari> is that where pesoix comes from ? :)
19:55:55 <{^Raven^}> yes, but someone else came up with the name
19:57:01 <{^Raven^}> I wanted to write a CGI script in BF that manipulated form data
19:57:02 <calamari> chris?
19:57:28 <calamari> mmm networking ability
19:57:47 <calamari> then we could write a bf web server 
19:58:12 <{^Raven^}> Commands starting 00h 08h are reserved for networking
20:00:48 <{^Raven^}> There is the concept of different dialects of PESOIX that allows at least 127 different function sets
20:01:02 <calamari> right
20:01:18 <calamari> didn't know it was already divided up tho
20:01:46 <{^Raven^}> there is more information on my site (google: project easel)
20:02:15 <calamari> bah, cant get lower than 293 
20:02:24 <calamari> your textgen is better hehe
20:02:33 <{^Raven^}> just different
20:03:08 <calamari> oops 292, that was one I found earlier
20:04:22 <{^Raven^}> calamari: are you evolving the string with the terminating linefeed?
20:04:27 <calamari> yeah
20:05:42 * calamari tries another memory cell
20:05:55 <{^Raven^}> that LF could be getting in the way
20:06:22 <calamari> possibly
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20:09:17 <{^Raven^}> I am still pondering the apparent need for security settigs in PESOIX
20:09:45 <calamari> what do you mean
20:10:49 <{^Raven^}> For things like deleting, creating and altering files, and executing system commands
20:11:02 <calamari> ahh, I'd leave that to the os
20:11:43 <calamari> i guess, unless there wasnt an os, in the bos case :)
20:12:05 <{^Raven^}> full file access is a requirement of Easel
20:13:07 <{^Raven^}> two options are to either prompt the user or the user specifies a trust level as a command line parameter to the host interpreter
20:14:20 <calamari> well, consider /etc/passwd.. doesn't matter your security settings in easel, it won't be modified, unless it was run as root
20:14:51 <{^Raven^}> ahh, I see what you mean
20:15:40 <{^Raven^}> I don't like the idea of PESOIX being used for malware or other nasty programs
20:19:59 * {^Raven^} is scared of adding GET#filehandle to the bfbasic expression handler
20:20:07 <calamari> hehehe
20:20:34 <calamari> we should make a yacc grammar for basic
20:21:16 <{^Raven^}> agreed
20:22:47 * {^Raven^} is hopelessly newbish with compiler compilers and parser generators
20:22:54 <{^Raven^}> WARNING! ^^
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20:23:20 <calamari> so am I
20:23:40 <{^Raven^}> Then it should be a lot of fun doing :)
20:23:44 <calamari> but it'd be nice to get my feet wet before starting a compilers class next semester
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20:24:36 * calamari searches in vain for a yacc written in quickbasic :)
20:27:26 <{^Raven^}> looking for a quickbasic yacc grammer could also be useful
20:28:51 <{^Raven^}> bfbasic can already use all features of PESOIX but via INKEY and PRINT CHR$()
20:31:08 <jix> calamari: i'm at 275
20:31:39 <{^Raven^}> jix: have you entered the competition yet? It ends today or tomorrow
20:31:48 <jix> {^Raven^}: it ends tomorrow
20:33:06 <{^Raven^}> jix: how many instructions does it execute to complete?
20:34:01 <jix> many
20:34:11 <jix> i have a very long loop
20:34:27 <jix> but i didn't count them
20:35:27 <jix> and i'm not sure how to count the [ and ]
20:36:18 <jix> and i didn't optimized it for that
20:36:35 <{^Raven^}> mine was optimized for length too
20:37:06 <{^Raven^}> dbc's code should be interesting as it has the lowest count of the entries
20:40:23 <jix> did you use textgen tools?
20:43:08 <{^Raven^}> my homebrew version of one. yes
20:43:16 <lament> i read that as 'hebrew'
20:45:37 <jix> i started with a 320 byte from a modified textgen.java but i totally changed the left hand side (the loop) and the right hand side... i used a 100% homebrew tool (using a different algorithm) to optimize parts of the right hand side... but it wouldn't be that short without manual optimizations
20:46:20 <calamari> jix: cool
20:47:04 <calamari> I'll see what I can get with a pure textgen
20:47:16 <calamari> 292, it seems.. but who knows hehe
20:48:11 <jix> yeah later tries using textgen resulted in 29* .. but i wasn't able to optimize them more than 1 or 2 bytes
20:48:39 <calamari> trying with 10 cells.. seems than 9 was better
20:48:43 <calamari> that
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20:51:27 <jix> dbc has 2 different solutions...
20:52:03 <jix> can't be that short AND so few instructions
20:52:11 <jix> +executed
20:52:46 <calamari> wouldn't the fewest involve long strings of +'s and -'s? :)
20:53:15 <jix> yes ... if you unroll the loops it's always shorter
20:55:20 <{^Raven^}> jix: does dbc definately have two solutions?
20:55:43 <jix> i think he does
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21:00:18 <jix> my short code executes about 1000 instructions
21:01:57 <{^Raven^}> calamari: how is your textgen coming along with the solution?
21:02:31 <jix> i submitted my solution
21:04:27 <jix> 538 must be a typo
21:04:44 <Gs30ng> guys, what character in qwerty keyboard shoud be the instruction of output?
21:04:53 <jix> i say it's impossible to do it in less than 543 executed instructions
21:05:38 <Gs30ng> does brainfuck use , or .?
21:05:51 <jix> . = output
21:05:53 <jix> , = input
21:07:19 <Gs30ng> in my language there's no way to distinguish what is string and what is instruction, like unlambda
21:08:37 <Gs30ng> so i must be careful about choosing characters of instruction, by picking those who aren't used that much in a string
21:09:33 <Gs30ng> OR... i can pick most-frequently-used characters like 'e' to make the language evil
21:09:43 <Gs30ng> but i don't want to, since it is already evil -_-
21:09:53 <{^Raven^}> Gs30ng: Have you considered the characters 0x00 to 0x1f and 0x7f for instructions
21:11:23 <Gs30ng> {^Raven^}, you mean, make a language with un-type-able code?
21:12:15 <{^Raven^}> Gs30ng: many editors allow these characters to be typed
21:12:23 <Gs30ng> well THAT sounds good, but i'd give up since it'll be hard only for developer (me)
21:13:06 <Gs30ng> i want ones who are in qwerty keyboard
21:13:39 <Gs30ng> wait... is my keyboard a standard qwerty keyboard?
21:14:19 <{^Raven^}> if the top row of letters reads qwertyuiop then probably yes
21:14:37 <jix> qwertzuiopü :(
21:15:12 <Gs30ng> european
21:15:22 <{^Raven^}> Any decent hex editor should allow entering text as well as control codes
21:15:35 <Gs30ng> ㅂㅈㄷㄱㅅㅛㅕㅑㅐㅔ
21:15:37 <Gs30ng> korean.
21:15:51 <jix> i hate the qwertz kezbord lazout <(
21:16:14 <jix> (read: i hate the qwerty keyboard layout ;))
21:16:47 <Gs30ng> korean 2-layer based layout is printed on my keyboard
21:17:22 <Gs30ng> and i use 3-layer layout... so sometimes i stray on the keyboard, it doesn't tell me what i should press
21:18:15 <jix> i have 2-set korean 3-set korean 390 sebulshik GongjinCheong Romaja and HNC Romaja
21:18:38 <jix> 2 Sㄷㅅ 책ㄷ무 ㅑㄴ 려ㅜㅜㅋ!
21:18:52 <jix>  ㅕㅓ ㅔ채ㅕㅅ ㅁ ㅕㅗㅕㅅ ㅏㄷ쎠ㅐ
21:19:02 <lament> 908i709ehnt*#()%&)984
21:19:04 <lament> 8[0g9fa375098
21:19:07 <jix> that was: 2 set korean is funny
21:19:15 <jix> 3 set korean is even funnier
21:19:43 <Gs30ng> korean keyboard layout market(or something) is hell
21:20:31 <Gs30ng> jix: 2 set(2 layered) layout is like qwerty, changing only keys of roman characters
21:21:04 <jix> 모 ㅐㅏ 솜ㅅ ㄷ테ㅣ먀ㅜㄴ ㄷㅍㄷㄱㅋ소ㅑㅜㅎ
21:21:16 <jix> ㄱㄷ미ㅣㅋ 해ㅐㅇ 새 ㅏㅜㅐㅈ 솜ㅅ
21:21:28 <jix> ㅑ|ㅇ ㅠㄷ ㅣㅐㄴㅅ 쟈쇄ㅕㅅ ㅏㅜㅐ쟈ㅜㅎ 소ㅑㄴ
21:21:42 <Gs30ng> try to use your two hands by turns
21:21:55 <Gs30ng> like, use left hand, then right hand, then left hand
21:22:11 <Gs30ng> you'll see a 'full' character built
21:22:31 <jix> but the words i type arn't distributed (no different word please) like that
21:23:11 <Gs30ng> you mean you are typing english on the 2 layered layout?
21:23:20 <jix> yes
21:23:21 <jix> !
21:23:24 <EgoBot> Huh?
21:23:34 <jix> !stfu
21:23:35 <Gs30ng> 모 ㅐㅏ 솜ㅅ ㄷ테ㅣ먀ㅜㄴ ㄷㅍㄷㄱㅋ소ㅑㅜㅎ
21:23:38 <EgoBot> Huh?
21:23:40 <Gs30ng> ah ok that explains everzthing
21:23:55 <jix> yes but i'm used to qwertz so swap z and y
21:24:03 <Gs30ng> reallz good to know that
21:24:16 <Gs30ng> i|d be lost without knowing this
21:24:24 <jix> | => ' 
21:24:28 <jix> (german layout)
21:24:41 <Gs30ng> why are z and y swapped in qwertz?
21:24:51 <jix> because it's called qwertZ
21:25:04 <Gs30ng> and are they the only swapped roman character keys?
21:25:07 <lament> qwertz lazout is funnz... you crayz germans
21:25:20 <Gs30ng> %s/you/zou/g
21:25:23 <jix> my first line is qwertzuiopü+ my 2nd asdfghjklöä# my 3rd is <yxcvbnm,.-
21:25:24 <Gs30ng> lol
21:25:35 <jix> and my special chars are double different because it's german and a mac layout...
21:25:36 * {^Raven^} guesses that it is down to Z being more common than Y in the relevant language
21:25:52 <jix> yes we don't use y at all
21:26:08 <lament> my first line is ',.pyfgcrl/=\  my 2nd is aoeuidhtns-  and my 3rd is ;qjkxbmwvz
21:26:18 <Gs30ng> so jix instead of yix
21:26:22 <Gs30ng> i'm sorry nm
21:26:31 <jix> uhm ^^
21:26:46 <Gs30ng> my first line is ㅅㄹㅕㅐㅓㄹㄷㅁㅊㅍ
21:26:58 <jix> let's try some other kb layouts
21:27:03 <Gs30ng> well, exactly, ㅅㄹㅕㅐㅓㄹㄷㅁㅊㅍ([
21:27:06 <{^Raven^}> lament: What keyboard layout are you using?
21:27:10 <lament> dvorak
21:27:11 <jix> ज्ो धजबत षक तजषकररर िययपक ागफफह ायच कगचभ
21:27:24 <jix> इक बफहयफभ बलिभ तय चभबम तजषक)
21:27:31 <Gs30ng> sequence of boxes
21:27:35 <Gs30ng> damn computer
21:27:40 <jix> haha
21:28:14 <Gs30ng> ᖅweᕐᑦᔪᐃᐅᑉ
21:28:15 <jix> «قلا فاهس هس قهلاف فخ مثبف!
21:28:29 <jix> (Arg this is right to left)
21:28:43 <Gs30ng> QWɛʀTʏʊɪOP
21:29:04 <jix> Ершы дщщлы сщщд вщуыте ше?
21:29:58 <jix> ธ้รห รห อำพผ ดีืืผ ะน ผนี แฟืฅะ รทฟเรืำ ้นไ ดีืืผ ะ้รห รห
21:31:10 <jix> שׁעשןמ רןעיא אם ךקכאץץץ איןד ןד הקרז דאופןג
21:31:13 <Gs30ng> I've come up to a new esoteric language today
21:31:19 <jix> cool
21:31:38 <Gs30ng> I named it Random, stands for R & O Machine
21:32:19 <Gs30ng> First time i thought R & O should be Reading & Overwriting, but now it seems Retarded & Outrageous or something
21:34:09 <Gs30ng> well, after i complete the spec, maybe someone who read the spec can be burst upon by a good idea what should R & O be... anyway i'm working on the spec
21:34:32 <Gs30ng> and damn what should be a character of output instruction?
21:35:15 * {^Raven^} ypc.o a Ekrpat t.fxrape nafrgyvvv (Eep!)
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21:39:05 <{^Raven^}> R&O Machine... Hmmm... Reasearch & Obfuscation machine?
21:41:17 <Gs30ng> see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_machine
21:48:08 <Gs30ng> the names are similar, although Random language isn't related to that machine
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22:00:10 <kipple> Keymaker: I can't get kbfi.b to work :( 
22:00:28 <Keymaker> what??
22:00:28 <kipple> does it require something particular of the interpreter?
22:00:37 <Keymaker> it shouldn't :o
22:00:44 <Keymaker> what kind of problem do you have?
22:00:50 <Keymaker> what are you trying to run?
22:00:52 <kipple> I just get an endless loop
22:00:55 <kipple> hello world
22:01:03 <Keymaker> hmmm
22:01:09 <Keymaker> post me the code and i'll try
22:01:13 <Keymaker> the hello world..
22:01:31 <kipple> it works fine directly on the bfi interpreter
22:01:47 <Keymaker> ok ok, but give me the hello world :)
22:01:52 <kipple> hmm. it has several line breaks. is that a problem for kbfi?
22:01:59 <Keymaker> so i can try it on kbfi.b..
22:02:02 <Keymaker> it shouldn't be
22:02:16 <Keymaker> please let me try!
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22:02:51 <kipple> sent it as a PM
22:03:36 <Keymaker> works perfectly here
22:03:49 <Keymaker> notice that the interpreter requires a lot computational power
22:04:04 <kipple> yeah, but not like hours to do hello world...
22:04:12 <kipple> or... ??
22:04:17 <Keymaker> the "infinite" loop you're getting is just because the interpreter is doing calculations
22:04:30 <Keymaker> dunno
22:04:40 <Keymaker> i'm myself running it on ~2ghz
22:04:50 <kipple> I'll try it on another interpreter
22:04:53 <Keymaker> yeah
22:05:02 <Keymaker> do so, it could even be some interpreter problem
22:05:10 <kipple> yes. very likely
22:05:15 <kipple> I use Urban's btw
22:05:18 <Keymaker> ah
22:07:30 <kipple> hmm. worked fine in my own interpreter
22:08:07 <Keymaker> ah
22:08:19 <Keymaker> urban's interpreter crashed when running it
22:08:27 <Keymaker> it must be an interpreter problem
22:08:37 <kipple> it is
22:08:42 <kipple> it worked on several others.
22:08:45 <Keymaker> yeah
22:09:30 <kipple> but I don't see why it won't work with Urban's
22:09:39 <Keymaker> yes.. that's rather puzzling
22:09:47 <Keymaker> and ironic :p
22:10:15 <kipple> any other interpreter and you could just say it's its fault... :)
22:11:49 <kipple> must be the loop handling in bfi.c. everything else is pretty straight forward
22:12:45 <kipple> but Urban uses recursion to do the loops, which I haven't seen anyone else do...
22:13:09 <Keymaker> yeah
22:13:15 <Keymaker> there's something causing problems
22:15:02 <Keymaker> in urban's interpreter, that is
22:16:37 <Keymaker> works perfectly in dbc's other brainfuck interpreter too.. and those should be 100% valid :)
22:16:56 <kipple> perfectly with two of mine as well
22:17:05 <Keymaker> yeah
22:17:24 <kipple> but Urban's works well with other programs.... 
22:17:33 <Keymaker> maybe the program is too large?
22:17:40 <kipple> interesting
22:18:04 <Keymaker> i really don't know.. it's rather strange that other interpreter run it perfectly and as supposed to
22:18:19 <Keymaker> *interpreters
22:18:30 <kipple> the source buffer is 5000 bytes. should be enough
22:18:36 <Keymaker> hmm, yeah
22:19:37 <Keymaker> what about:
22:19:39 <Keymaker> if( p<0 || p>100)
22:19:39 <Keymaker> puts("RANGE ERROR"), exit(0);
22:19:51 <Keymaker> p seems to be the instruction pointer
22:19:59 <kipple> yeah, you have to modify it to if( p<0 || p>5000) to make it work 
22:20:06 <Keymaker> case '<': p--;        break;
22:20:07 <Keymaker> case '>': p++;        break;
22:20:16 <kipple> it's a bug
22:20:21 <Keymaker> :)
22:20:32 <Keymaker> you tried modifying it?
22:20:35 <kipple> yes
22:20:37 <Keymaker> ok
22:20:40 <kipple> otherwise you get RANGE ERROR
22:20:58 <Keymaker> yes, because the program pointer gets larger than 100
22:21:11 <kipple> I've set it to 5000 and don't get range errors
22:21:16 <Keymaker> yeah
22:21:25 <Keymaker> program solved. thanks for pointing out :)
22:21:35 <kipple> actually it should be >=5000
22:22:09 <kipple> solved? what do you mean? did you get it to work?
22:22:22 <Keymaker> nope, i thought you did?
22:22:31 <kipple> no, I just don't get range errors
22:22:31 <Keymaker> i mean, i didn't try
22:22:36 <Keymaker> hmm..
22:22:42 <kipple> but it still enters an infinite loop
22:22:52 <Keymaker> then it's urban's interpreter doing something wrong
22:23:11 <kipple> blasphemy!
22:23:45 <Keymaker> since i've ran it on 100% valid brainfuck interpreters and in no point of execution the instruction pointer goes below zero in them
22:24:27 <kipple> wait
22:24:32 <kipple> I think I know
22:24:38 <kipple> you expect 0 on EOF, right?
22:24:47 <Keymaker> eof or no change
22:24:51 <kipple> hehe
22:24:55 <kipple> that's it then
22:25:02 <kipple> it never finishes reading the code
22:25:16 <Keymaker> what does it return on eof?
22:25:26 <kipple> -1 I think. getchar()
22:25:40 <kipple> yes. -1
22:25:43 <Keymaker> ah
22:25:50 <Keymaker> so it's 255 in this case?
22:25:56 <kipple> yes
22:27:34 <Keymaker> glad to hear the mystery is revealed
22:29:10 <kipple> that's what we get for always assuming 0 on EOF ;)
22:29:19 <Keymaker> :p
22:29:32 <Keymaker> well, i'm assuming eof = no change ;)
22:29:57 <Keymaker> but make my programs work with eof = 0 implementations as well
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23:01:18 <{^Raven^}> Keymaker: What if the program input contains NUL?
23:02:07 <kipple> then that is the last input character
23:02:34 <kipple> that problem goes for all bf implementations
23:04:14 <{^Raven^}> also when EOF is no change what happens when the input contains two concurrent identical characters, like the ls in hello?
23:05:09 <kipple> when you use no change for EOF, it is common to set the cell to a certain value (like 0 or -1) before reading
23:10:58 <Keymaker> no change should mean that the cell will not get a new value
23:11:46 <Keymaker> but notice, this interpreter of mine returns 0 on eof always..
23:12:18 <Keymaker> (that is of course if the bf interpreter you're running kbfi.b returns no change or zero..)
23:18:01 <kipple> hehe. ptmbsg.b is pretty cool, but VERY slow on kbfi :)
23:21:07 <Keymaker> hehe, thanks :)
23:21:12 <Keymaker> yeah
23:21:18 <Keymaker> it gets really slow after a few steps
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