00:16:37 GregorR: you can just treat registers as memory locations 00:17:12 with fancy names for the memory locations :) 00:17:17 It's not a problem for writing my own compiler. 00:17:23 It's only a problem if I want to put it in GCC. 00:17:34 In which case, treating it as a variable becomes infinitely problematic. 00:19:13 how hard is it to play the flute? 00:19:49 On a related note XD 00:19:55 To just produce a sound, or to actually play it? 00:20:03 easier than clarinet i think 00:20:54 to actually play it 00:21:00 consider this: 00:21:07 http://z3.ca/~lament/syrinx.mp3 00:21:31 Well, as a professional flautist ... :P 00:21:39 how long would it take a total beginner with clumsy fingers starting at age 21 to play that well? :) 00:21:54 * GregorR fires up mplayer 00:22:15 Do you play any instrument? 00:22:24 * calamari loads bmp 00:22:37 (Caching, caching :P ) 00:22:44 Oy, 17% cache fill >_< 00:22:58 Woah, WTF, it didn't work XD 00:23:02 * GregorR just downloads it :P 00:23:30 i play some instruments 00:23:37 Any winds? 00:23:41 no 00:23:44 Reeds? 00:23:54 no 00:24:07 well, harmonica, but i doubt that's what you meant :) 00:24:19 It is my untrained opinion that you will never play that well. 00:24:22 hehe 00:24:28 * calamari plays harmonica as well 00:24:42 GregorR: do you actually play the flute? 00:24:47 No. 00:24:48 and have you heard the recording? :) 00:25:00 *listened to 00:25:06 lament: you need to start young 00:25:07 It's simple enough, but I doubt it's as simple as it sounds. 00:25:10 Lots of accidentals, etc. 00:25:15 And the flute has a complicated pad setup. 00:25:21 It's not like a piano keyboard or harmonica. 00:25:26 it doesn't sound simple at all to me 00:25:35 and harmonicas are reasonably bizarre 00:25:55 can you bend notes well? 00:25:57 Amongst other things, I can play the harmonica - what I mean is that it needs combinations, etc. 00:25:58 calamari: I know 00:26:07 calamari: yes, but i have problems overblowing 00:26:19 er 00:26:24 right, overblowing 00:27:12 GregorR: i know it does 00:27:26 but that doesn't make it impossible to learn :) 00:27:32 Well, of course. 00:27:34 lament: where did you get the flute mp3? 00:27:39 But, if you don't play at least a relatively similar instrument, the learning curve would probably be quite high. 00:27:52 calamari: kazaa 00:28:02 GregorR: I know. 00:28:12 I could ask my music major friend for his opinion ;P 00:28:12 lament: is it copyrighted or free? 00:28:28 (if you know) ? hehe 00:28:30 calamari: I have no idea. Don't listen to it, it might be tainted. 00:28:42 by downloading it, you're promoting communism 00:28:47 lol 00:28:58 From kazaa, it's almost certainly copyrighted. 00:29:02 i'll have to see if any of my friends have a flute 00:29:15 what instruments do you play? 00:29:20 Me? 00:29:24 yes 00:29:34 I'd leave this country if there wre a better one to go to.. but there isn't afaik 00:29:47 Piano, viola and I dabble in harmonica but haven't ever cared enough to play it seriously *shrugs* 00:30:01 heh 00:30:26 how come viola? :) 00:30:36 What's wrong with the Viola?! 00:30:45 The viola is a REAL MANS instrument. 00:31:01 More portable than the cello but not as high as the violin. 00:31:20 bbl.. bedtime 00:31:29 My music major friend, incidentally, plays the cello, and pokes fun at me for my selection of the viola :P 00:31:59 mmm, i would too 00:32:23 i guess on the plus side, you could pretend the viola's a violin and play violin pieces on it? 00:32:32 >_< 00:32:32 -!- calamari has quit ("isn't that a color?"). 00:32:54 Or, I could play superior, deeper, more toneful viola pieces on it. 00:33:00 :P 00:33:18 i never heard of those things 00:33:26 * puzzlet plays violin 00:33:32 puzzlet: yeah... me neither 00:33:46 not just superior and deeper 00:33:54 i've never heard of ANY viola pieces :) 00:34:05 They exist. 00:34:08 there are viola concertos 00:34:17 and cello pieces arraged for viola 00:34:17 Some composers fancy the viola. 00:35:12 right... the "Lesser-known" ones :) 00:35:55 "A concerto for viola and three contrabassoons by John Whatshisname" 00:45:50 -!- nooga has joined. 00:45:59 hi 00:48:17 'ello nooga 00:49:25 nooga: http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf 00:49:33 If you have any comments, feel free :P 00:49:34 I need comments. 00:56:03 wohooa 00:56:41 idk what to say... nice, I would never figure it out myself 00:57:40 Well, it seems like it'll work, but I can't guarantee anything until I write some code. 00:57:49 And I can't really write any code until I finish making this damn AST >_< 00:57:57 Then I'll have a parser and can actually do something :P 00:59:17 yacc?:P 00:59:38 Yup 00:59:49 I found an ANSI C parser in YACC. 01:00:03 I just need to go the extra step and turn it into an AST instead of just a syntax-verifier. 01:00:11 "Just" >_< 01:02:27 mhm 01:02:28 it's nt that hard 01:02:28 http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/ANSI-C-grammar-y.html << this one? 01:02:28 Yeah 01:02:28 And no, it's not very difficult. 01:02:28 But it's tedius. 01:02:45 It's a very mechanical process, that I have to do for about fourty nonterminals :P 01:03:18 right 01:03:54 -!- lindi- has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:04:17 -!- lindi- has joined. 01:05:26 Yeesh. 01:05:27 c2bf will be awesome 01:05:28 64 nonterminals. 01:05:33 eek 01:05:39 Don't count on it actually existing at any point XD 01:05:47 Just because I have a dream doesn't mean it'll ever come true. 01:05:56 But I am pretty stubborn. 01:05:57 So we'll see. 01:07:27 I don't despair ;p 01:10:13 don't u think you should take some ppl to help u/ 01:12:11 Definitely. 01:12:15 Are you volunteering? ^_^ 01:12:44 i think.. yes :> 01:13:09 Well, the easiest part to divide up would be implementation of the basic operations. 01:13:23 Since each of those will basically just be a chunk of BF code. 01:13:31 However, I'm not really far enough to do that yet ^_^ 01:13:41 And I'm not sure how to divide up this task :P 01:14:43 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms << and we've got this 01:14:52 Yes, that will help immensely. 01:14:54 Jeff did good work 01:22:32 hey, where do you study? 01:25:38 Portland State University 01:25:59 that's where this guy built that cool relay computer? 01:26:34 Umm, not AFAIK? 01:26:47 Oh 01:26:49 Yes it is XD 01:26:52 I didn't even know :P 01:27:08 Man, I'll have to talk to this guy 8-D 01:27:56 Oh nooooooooooooooooo 01:28:00 I've taken every course he offers :'( 01:28:07 (From somebody else) 01:29:03 Anyway, PSU is really getting very good for computer science, and is especially good for open source :) 01:29:05 http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/index.html 01:29:53 Yeah, I found it :) 01:30:11 That was the guy I was just talking about. 01:30:20 If I had taken compilers last term, I could have taken it from him :'( 01:30:32 And went "OMG RELAY COMPUTER U ROX0RRRRRRRRRRZ!!!" 01:30:56 -!- fungebob has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]"). 01:32:41 it must make funny sounds 01:32:51 click click click ^ 2 01:33:36 * GregorR just wrote another page of c2bf.pdf 01:33:43 * GregorR uploads it ... 01:37:33 in a minute i'll be going to #&@^(%Q#)^$@&#)%^&@# school 01:38:07 Heheh 01:38:09 Enjoy 8-D 01:39:44 bye 01:39:46 -!- nooga has left (?). 02:31:55 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out). 04:14:09 -!- CXI has joined. 04:50:50 -!- Keymaker has joined. 04:54:47 * Keymaker realizes a problem 06:21:24 -!- kipple has joined. 06:41:44 -!- ihope_ has joined. 06:41:46 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 07:13:43 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:22:20 * Keymaker still has a problem 07:28:07 only one? good for you! 07:28:40 :P 07:44:05 -!- kipple_ has joined. 07:58:37 so there is a looping malbolge version of 99 bottles of beer.. awesome.. 07:58:54 i wonder if there is anything explanations on how the program works or was written? 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:10 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:24:40 -!- {^Raven^} has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:40:14 -!- ihope_ has joined. 08:40:16 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 08:50:33 If somebody managed to "almost" write a Malbolge "beer program", why no proper "Hello, world!"? 08:51:07 so, is that looping version valid or not? 08:51:55 there are two versions there, one that is just priting lyrics and another one that says it's looping 08:51:59 i've tried neither 08:52:06 I dunno. 08:52:15 oh, and wikipedia page says that some example program there prints out "Hello, world." 08:52:29 Hmm... 08:52:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge_programming_language 08:53:07 (=<`:9876Z4321UT.-Q+*)M'&%$H"!~}|Bzy?=|{z]KwZY44Eq0/{mlk** 08:53:07 hKs_dG5[m_BA{?-Y;;Vb'rR5431M}/.zHGwEDCBA@98\6543W10/.R,+O< 08:53:35 Looks like the "other one" to me. 08:54:01 "other one"? 08:55:18 Lemme see here... 08:56:27 Urmp. 08:56:33 !malbolge '=a;:?87[543216/SR2+*No-,%*#G4 08:56:37 hello, 08:56:53 ...Well, that's a start, anyway. 08:56:59 !help 08:57:02 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 08:57:04 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda 08:57:11 !ps 08:57:14 1 ihope: ps 08:58:04 Well, it's certainly different. 08:58:15 The "other one" I was thinking of: (=<`$9]7<5YXz7wT.3,+O/o'K%$H"'~D|#z@b=`{^Lx8%$Xmrkpohm-kNi;gsedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543s+O ok 09:03:18 seems the wikipedia lies 09:03:20 hah 10:54:44 Surely there isn't a looping HW in malbolge? 10:55:27 I know there is a 99BOB, but that only outputs the gzip, which is hard-coded. 10:55:49 AFAIK, the only loop written in malbolge is cat. 10:55:52 :-S 11:10:03 !!!!! 11:10:07 Huh? 11:10:17 http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html 11:10:36 EgoBot, I was not talking to you :P 11:12:56 I will run it through a malbolge debugger, I have to see that in action to believe it 11:20:06 judging by the execution speed it might even be true! oh my... 11:22:19 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:26:41 simonrc, that was what i was talking about.. 11:26:52 ah, ok 11:26:59 at least the 99bob page claims it's looping 11:27:05 hmm 11:27:16 It looks mightly repetative to me 11:27:57 yep, that's because there's lots of waste in Malbolge programs 11:28:00 that's expectable 11:28:02 I'm debugging it 11:28:06 tracing, even 11:28:31 it has a one-time setup phase similar to the one I suggest 11:33:32 thanks for the reference, Keymaker 11:38:28 -!- jix has joined. 11:38:51 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/bottles-995.n <- the normalized version 11:41:44 the program starts by jumping to address 98 where the initialization routine starts; there's no single jump from there until position 22044 approx. 11:42:32 hmm 11:42:59 there isn't an output instruction there eiter, so it's safe to assume that the initialization is about 22K 11:43:11 s/eiter/either/ 11:44:21 quite expectable given the complexity of the program; I'd even say it's a very compact one 11:53:22 cool 11:53:39 do you think it's somehow computer generated? 11:54:07 instead of written instruction by instruction by hand 12:13:36 got to go. 12:13:39 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 13:19:27 -!- NoneGiven has joined. 13:19:41 -!- NoneGiven has changed nick to {^Raven^}. 13:20:42 <{^Raven^}> evening peeps 13:29:06 -!- ihope_ has joined. 13:29:08 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 13:30:59 -!- nooga has joined. 13:31:08 hi 13:31:15 jix: u must be techno god or something 13:31:30 being 14 yr old and writing parsers in haskell -.- 13:31:33 omigosh 13:44:26 When I was 14 I wrote C. :/ 13:44:41 At least that's a lot more normal. 13:45:29 lol, writing parsers in C being 14y old? x.X 13:45:41 Not very sophisticated parsers, no. :p 13:46:03 was it real parser using at least recursion? with lexer and so on? 13:46:23 I think I've managed to lose all my embarrassing code from that age, so can't say. 13:47:03 Although we did have some sort of weird DOS-based Prolog runtime in our 8088 (or was it the 286?) when I was in the tender age of something like 6 to 8. Although I'm not claiming I used it. It did have some example programs, though. 13:48:58 omfg 13:49:24 I just did GW-BASIC back then. I'm surprised I didn't emerge any more scarred that I am. 13:49:26 when i was 6 to 8 i could only run my favourite games from a dos prompt 13:50:06 started programming with @%(@$ TURBO damn PASCAL when i was 10 13:50:59 only thing i've done was some stupid thingy with green letters that simulated something... 13:51:46 many numbers and werid information, i guess i was waching some films abt "hackers" 13:51:46 Pascal was rather popular. I don't think I ever used it, but I think we had a "programming course" with it when I was at the school-where-people-go-when-they're-uh-13-to-16. 13:54:26 -!- calamari has joined. 13:54:43 hi calamari 13:55:09 hi nooga 13:55:15 what's up? 13:56:31 i'm shocked by jix's skills ;p 13:57:05 he's 14 and he's writing interpreters in haskell and he knows lambda calculus and everything!!!!!! 13:58:45 yep 13:59:07 really sad to be corrupted at such a young age 13:59:56 mhm 14:00:06 + he plays guitar 14:00:21 jix, come on, say something! 14:03:31 re 14:04:08 omg omg 14:04:42 where'd you learn haskell huh!? 14:04:57 http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/teaching/Hskurs_toc.html 14:05:03 using that webpage 14:06:09 but i skipped some chapters 14:06:16 are you learning in school o sitting home whole day? 14:06:36 well i'm at school in the morning and at home in the afternoon 14:07:09 when do you have time to hack? 14:07:17 and when did u started? 14:07:24 i started at grade 4 14:07:34 omfg 14:07:50 using RealBasic (some object orientated basic dialect for mac os) 14:09:18 u must be fuc*ing genious 14:09:52 what guitar do u have? :D 14:10:14 my e guitar is a very cheap and crappy yamaha one 14:10:39 and my acoustic guitar is uhmm no idea 14:11:08 how long do u play? 14:11:25 hmm. quite a lot of eso-programmers also plays guitar apparently. is there a connection?? :) 14:11:26 since grade 1... for about 8,5 years 14:12:04 OMFG 14:12:09 must be damn good 14:12:13 u* 14:12:38 well i don't practice very often... 14:12:42 from where do you get time for your activities? 14:12:58 and who are your parents? 14:13:23 my parents are upset when im using computer for longer than 4 hours a day 14:13:34 my parents aren't 14:14:14 and tell me that u like sports huh? 14:14:31 and u play football in a local team 14:17:04 heeh 14:17:12 g2g 14:17:14 bye 14:18:46 no 14:18:49 i hate football 14:19:00 and i hate sports 14:19:34 i play guitar 14:19:44 ... 14:19:44 but i don't like it much :) 14:24:17 ... 14:27:19 * {^Raven^} also plays guitar 14:27:45 i play ukulele 14:27:54 <{^Raven^}> kipple_: you might be on to something :/ 14:32:23 hi Raven 14:32:35 <{^Raven^}> hi calamari 14:33:57 had to use our chat log yesterday because I forgot how the newer bfbasic line numbering scheme worked 14:37:13 <{^Raven^}> it looks promising for GregorRs project 14:37:14 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:38:11 <{^Raven^}> i've been doing some more thinkig about bfbasic recently 14:39:06 oh yeah? 14:40:48 <{^Raven^}> writing unit tests for each of the commands, exxpressions and array handling 14:41:36 * calamari needs to figure out how to enjoy writing tests more 14:42:00 that's a good idea tho 14:42:14 java's junit should be good for that 14:43:08 <{^Raven^}> bfdebug is definately going to come in handy 14:44:00 <{^Raven^}> i need to get each of the known bfbasic issues down to the smallest source that displays the problem 14:44:26 reqwrite it in rubye 14:44:28 -q 14:44:32 -e 14:45:13 <{^Raven^}> jix: I'd rather see a stable release of bfbasic first 14:45:29 although bfbasic does need to be rewriten 14:45:59 the parser is terrible 14:46:09 since its a huge hack 14:46:14 ruby has racc, it's a pretty nice parser generator 14:46:30 seems like it I were to rewrite c or c++ would be preferred 14:46:38 or maybe python 14:46:44 why python but not ruby? 14:46:51 because I don't know ruby 14:47:17 it's like python but has some nice additional features 14:47:27 and a different syntax 14:47:27 <{^Raven^}> C has the advantage of being uber multi-platform 14:48:10 yeah but you have to concentrate on many things that arn't really important for the problem you're trying to solve 14:48:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:48:18 and then once c2bf is done we can compile it to bf :P 14:48:40 we could implement it in bfbasic 14:48:53 not really yet 14:48:59 needs string handling 14:49:06 yeah of course the current bf basic isn't able to do that 14:49:15 and garbage collection 14:49:18 or something like it 14:50:08 if you don't want to use ruby i'd vote for python 14:51:16 I think my next "python" project would be porting linguine to c 14:51:41 err I mean to compile to c 14:51:50 right now programs have to be run under python 14:52:01 (via interpreter) 14:52:05 so thats slow 14:54:57 <{^Raven^}> the results from the logical brainfuck competition would give bfbasic the bitwise logic operators 14:55:23 I solved it also 14:55:27 (the bitwise) 14:55:34 but I'm not sure that I ever implemented them 14:55:50 just pseudocode that seemed good 14:55:57 <{^Raven^}> only boolean logic is implemented 14:56:02 I wanted to be able to do it in a constant amount of memory 14:56:12 yep 14:56:20 <{^Raven^}> yeah, i remember 15:06:26 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 15:14:08 <{^Raven^}> what would you change in a rewrite of bfbasic? 15:14:17 * {^Raven^} is curious 15:14:46 it's not very modular 15:15:16 I'd preferrably like a separate file for each function or command 15:15:42 also, the parser is bad 15:15:53 since I wrote it myself 15:16:25 making functions work will be a pain with it 15:16:48 would be better to scrap it and use something like bison 15:17:49 also, I really wish I didn't have bf code hardcoded in certain places in the main loops of code.. that just feels wrong 15:17:50 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:18:20 I never got to take my compilers class 15:18:39 maybe I can next semester 15:19:09 <{^Raven^}> named functions and procedures should be farly simple to implement 15:19:34 java's reflection should make it easy 15:19:44 not sure how c would do it 15:19:58 <{^Raven^}> reflection??? 15:20:38 could use it to dynamically load class files based on their fingerprint (say they extend or implement a certain class) 15:20:50 I use this with the esoshell 15:21:10 adding a new command is as easy as compiling the class file and re-running 15:21:21 <{^Raven^}> very nice 15:21:24 no other code changes 15:21:40 so there wouldn't be that awful switch 15:22:04 <{^Raven^}> passing parameters is the hardest, especially if you allow recurson and give local scope to named variables 15:23:16 <{^Raven^}> there will need to be a variable heap 15:23:53 also a problem are all thos global variables 15:24:13 so yeah, the implementation leaves much to be desired 15:25:22 I guess c gets around the function thing by linking with libraries 15:25:49 that won't work too well with bfbasic tho, since function calls are expensive 15:26:03 <{^Raven^}> bfbasic can link to libraries atm 15:26:19 is that somethin you added? 15:26:48 <{^Raven^}> yes 15:27:01 cool 15:27:31 <{^Raven^}> all the changes are in the bfbasic CVS tree 15:27:49 <{^Raven^}> in the src directory is 1.50rc2 15:28:09 cool, I'll have to see how you did that 15:28:29 bbl, need to go to class 15:28:45 <{^Raven^}> ttfn 15:29:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 15:37:27 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:49:42 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 15:50:24 Good day to you, my good friends, upon this fine Thursday afternoon (or whatever time it is where you are). 15:52:34 Alas, there is no conversation here :P 15:58:50 you just missed it :) 15:58:57 Yeah, saw that in the logs :P 15:59:20 And it led to BFBASIC ... so I could have manipulated it into a conversation about C2BF XP 15:59:28 hehe 15:59:33 (XP = a smiley) 15:59:37 I know 15:59:45 That's for the logs ;) 15:59:54 still confuses me sometimes though 16:00:21 Well, just remember that Windows XP is named after the smiley of somebody who uses Windows XP. 16:00:24 does look like your writing C2BF for windowsXP, and you don't want that do you ;) 16:00:31 No :P 16:01:30 I don't smile like that ;) 16:01:43 Heh 16:02:14 Today I'll write a page on C2BF relocatable object files. 16:02:17 The brief: 16:02:34 main: *BF CODE*(symbol reference) 16:03:29 For subblocks: 16:03:32 main!1: ... 16:03:35 main!2: ... 16:03:36 Etc 16:04:47 hopefully someone who understands what you're talking about will read the logs... XP 16:07:24 When I write a page on it, it'll make more sense :P 16:20:59 What's a symbol that has no meaning in C or BF ... 16:21:27 (And furthermore, is an error in C) 16:21:51 # ... after preprocessing, # is an error, right? 23:18:39 <{^Raven^}> GregorR-L: It's an interesting and worthwhile project 23:18:52 "Worthwhile" XD 23:19:06 I don't know if I agree that it's worthwhile :P 23:19:29 But it should be fun. 23:19:32 <{^Raven^}> GregorR-L: Have you seen the SmallC compiler on sourceforge? it's a retargetable C compiler for 8-bit platforms 23:19:51 Yeah, I've heard of it. 23:20:01 I think BF is just too different from any real architecture to base this on a normal compiler. 23:20:59 <{^Raven^}> there ws talk a few years back to retargeting an existing compiler to bfasm 23:21:10 <{^Raven^}> s/ws/was/ 23:21:19 calamari recommended against targetting BFASM :) 23:21:25 <{^Raven^}> hehe 23:21:41 I'm trying directly C->BF, no middle state. 23:21:49 I think it's best that way, or I'm insane. 23:21:51 One or the other. 23:21:55 <{^Raven^}> i reckon that's going to be the best way 23:22:49 <{^Raven^}> all this compiler talk is making me want to play with bfbasic again 23:23:08 I need to get my AST tree generator done so you can play with C2BF instead 8-D 23:23:24 <{^Raven^}> heheh 23:23:32 By writing basic operator action (the worlds most fun thing to do :P) 23:23:41 *actions 23:24:57 <{^Raven^}> bfgolf has made a few good advances