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02:29:06 <mitte> hello
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16:55:28 <Keymaker> evening
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20:31:34 <calamari> hi
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21:36:26 <calamari> hmm.. I wonder if it is possible to simulate a Turing machine that is possibly a decider, or whether I can only simulate a recognizer
21:36:54 <calamari> (I mean if the TM is possibly a decider or a recognizer, but I don't know which)
21:37:22 <calamari> err strike that.. makes no sense :)
21:38:25 <calamari> the halting problem I think tells me that I can't simulate a TM and produce a decider
21:46:36 <Sgep> decider? recognizer?
21:46:51 <calamari> <calamari> err strike that.. makes no sense :)
21:46:58 <calamari> ;)
21:47:44 <calamari> the only recognizers I know of are for TM's and Tron.. hehe
21:49:29 <calamari> hmm, actually maybe it would work
21:49:44 <calamari> if the simulation got to a reject state then it would reject
21:50:00 <calamari> I was getting confused with nondeterministic TM's
21:50:39 <calamari> yay.. this is much easier :)
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22:20:17 <Keymaker> 'ello calamari
22:20:23 <Keymaker> have you checked your forums?
22:20:37 <Keymaker> bertram and daniel have posted very short entries..
22:21:03 <Keymaker> (int-e and dbc, i mean)
22:23:58 <calamari> cool
22:24:27 <Keymaker> yeah, it's pretty cool
22:24:34 <Keymaker> i can't wait to see their solutions
22:25:31 <calamari> I unfortunately can't justify writing an entry :(  too much homework .. working on it now even
22:25:49 <Keymaker> yeah :\
22:26:13 <calamari> maybe I can extend the deadline a couple weeks.. (just kidding)
22:26:23 <Keymaker> phew :)
22:26:31 <Keymaker> what time is it over there now?
22:26:58 <calamari> 3:38pm
22:27:05 <calamari> errr.. 3:26pm ;)
22:27:29 <calamari> wow.. my watch is over 12 minutes off from them real time
22:27:35 <Keymaker> :)
22:27:57 <Keymaker> hmm, when i wake up tomorrow, the competition has ended. nice :D
22:28:15 <Keymaker> then i can get to see the others' entries..
22:28:48 <calamari> yeah.. although I still need to write the test cases
22:28:54 <Keymaker> well, in case nobody else enters i'm kinda "third" ;)
22:28:59 <calamari> and that won't be happening until after finals
22:29:00 <Keymaker> ah, the tests
22:29:06 <Keymaker> here are some suggestions:
22:29:14 <Keymaker> 1. file with only one new-line
22:29:27 <Keymaker> 2. file with few ks of "abc" pattern
22:29:28 <calamari> I have 11 different orderings of a b and c I need to test for :)
22:29:37 <Keymaker> ok
22:29:59 <Keymaker> remember to have some long tests, over 255 chars of each
22:30:05 <Keymaker> letter
22:30:06 <calamari> yeah definitely
22:30:20 <calamari> I'll probably write some randomly generated tests as well
22:30:24 <Keymaker> yeah
22:30:46 <calamari> but everyone will be tested with the same things, for fairness
22:30:56 <Keymaker> sure
22:31:24 <calamari> ok, afk to continue my thrilling proof of the equivalence of a 2 stack PDA and TM
22:31:30 <Keymaker> :)
22:31:55 <calamari> <groan>
22:44:07 <fizzie> Are you doing that just for fun, or is it an exercise of some sort? 
22:44:21 <fizzie> Can't you just say it's obvious that they're equivalent? :p
22:44:28 <Keymaker> :)
22:44:35 <Keymaker> it's school work, i assume
22:44:48 <calamari> fizzie: it's homework
22:50:21 <fizzie> Heh, on the 'introduction to theoretical computer science' course we mostly had to just design TMs for various languages. Though there were some "prove foo" exercises, too.
22:53:35 <Gs30ng> the more powerful model of computation, TM > PDA > FSA, right?
22:53:42 <calamari> yes
22:54:07 <calamari> TM > decider > nondeterministic PDA > deterministic PDA > FSA
22:54:26 <Keymaker> what PDA stands for?
22:54:29 <Gs30ng> iirc PDA has it's own stack-like data management system
22:54:31 <Gs30ng> push down
22:54:36 <Gs30ng> automata(automaton)
22:54:36 <calamari> pushdown automata
22:54:47 <Keymaker> ah, of course.. i forgot..
22:55:09 <Gs30ng> FSA does not, but PDA has one stack-like thing
22:55:26 <Gs30ng> so i think that term '2 stack PDA' is a little bit weird
22:56:30 <calamari> on the homework it is described as a k stack PDA, where k=0 an NFA, k=1 a normal PDA
22:57:04 <calamari> NFA being a nodeterministic FSA
22:57:36 <calamari> NFA's and FSA's are equally powerful
22:57:49 <calamari> as are TM's and nondeterministic TM's
22:58:24 <fizzie> And n-track TM's and n-tape TM's, although that's somewhat obvious too.
22:58:30 <calamari> there is some question whether a probabilistic TM is more powerful than a normal TM.. at least according to wikipedia
23:05:03 <calamari> argh.. PDA's don't give EOF.. messing up my proof. hehe
23:17:03 <Sgep> Byeall
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