00:05:11 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 00:24:13 -!- fungebob has joined. 00:26:25 -!- fungebob has changed nick to fungeb0b. 00:27:54 -!- fungeb0b has quit (Client Quit). 00:30:15 -!- fungeb0b has joined. 00:35:35 -!- Sgep has joined. 00:55:08 !bf8 -. 00:55:33 !bf16 -. 00:55:40 !bf24 -. 00:56:26 ÿ 00:56:28 ÿ 01:15:33 -!- Taliesin41 has joined. 01:15:37 -!- Taliesin41 has changed nick to KevinN. 01:16:12 hi there 01:17:35 -!- fungeb0b has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]"). 01:31:49 hi Kevin 01:31:54 !bf32 -. 01:31:58 ÿ 01:35:05 !bf32 +[[+]>+] 01:36:59 !ps 01:39:10 1 Robdgreat: bf 01:39:12 2 ihope: lazyk 01:39:14 3 calamari: bf32 01:39:16 4 calamari: ps 01:42:14 !kill 3 01:42:34 Process 3 killed. 01:46:32 hoihoi 01:47:08 what is that? 01:48:08 !ps 01:48:34 !bf32 -. 01:48:38 ÿ 01:48:48 aaah... ^_^ 01:48:54 1 Robdgreat: bf 01:48:56 2 ihope: lazyk 01:48:58 3 KevinN: ps 01:49:14 !kill 3 01:49:34 Process 3 killed. 01:49:51 wow... a brainfuck-interpreter for IRC... 01:51:20 !bf32 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 01:51:25 7 01:51:50 !bf32 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 01:51:54 A 01:52:40 !bf32 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 01:52:51 !bf32 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 01:52:54 L 01:53:01 !bf32 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 01:53:06 K 01:53:21 KevinN: bf is far from the only language available. 01:53:51 See the topic. 01:54:21 !help 01:56:50 help ps kill i eof flush show ls 01:56:52 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lazyk malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01 01:57:00 hmm wiki writing seems to be messed up 01:57:42 !befunge "hi",,@ 01:57:52 hm 01:57:54 no? 01:58:16 where's the output? :( 01:58:23 !ps 01:59:13 1 Robdgreat: bf 01:59:14 2 ihope: lazyk 01:59:16 3 calamari: ps 02:00:10 !befunge >< 02:00:11 !ps 02:00:43 seems it doesn't work... somehow... 02:00:53 hrm.. can't modify my user page.. bummer 02:01:14 well 02:01:17 1 Robdgreat: bf 02:01:18 2 ihope: lazyk 02:01:19 at least falsebot works :) 02:01:20 3 lament: befunge 02:01:23 4 lament: ps 02:01:27 !kill 3 02:01:37 F!"False is clearly the best" 02:01:37 False is clearly the best 02:01:48 Process 3 killed. 02:02:12 lament: what languages have you invented? I have a bad memory 02:02:22 calamari: prelude and fugue 02:02:48 well, and BEST, and a couple of joke ones. 02:03:15 and smallf*? 02:03:29 well, yeah. 02:03:34 smallfuck you mean. 02:03:39 wow... more'n 4 already... :O 02:03:40 no I don't ;) 02:03:45 oh 02:03:52 i didn't invent smallf* :) 02:03:58 hehe 02:04:10 but that hardly qualifies as "invent" 02:04:17 true 02:04:35 well... better than nothing at all... ;) 02:04:38 btchanger barely, because of the combination of commands 02:04:53 I should just modify the timeline and see if anyone complains 02:05:51 talking of which... I'm going to write a btchanger-to-AlPhAbEt-compiler (in AlPhAbEt) to prove its turing-completeness... 02:06:15 it's much easier to do it that way than write an btchanger-interpreter... 02:06:27 -n 02:08:08 KevinN: prove the turing-completeness of what? 02:08:30 of AlPhAbEt itself... ;) 02:09:23 (since btchanger is turing-complete, and since every btchanger-source can be translated to an equivalent AlPhAbEt-source, AlPhAbEt is turing-complete, too)... 02:09:47 at least that's the idea... 02:12:41 seems pretty straightforwardly TC 02:12:43 -!- sekhmet has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 02:14:55 jupp... so, I don't need to think about how to prove turing-completeness, but implement an already turing-proven language... 02:15:47 -!- sekhmet has joined. 02:16:31 yes :) 02:16:41 should be fore fun, too 02:16:43 *more 02:19:20 -!- sekhmet has quit (Connection reset by peer). 02:19:30 well... that's the cool thing about ABC... it's not fun using it... ^_^ 02:19:38 well... maybe a bit... 02:20:33 however, time doesn't go by so fast... so you can solve more complex problems... 02:20:45 (really don't know, how this works, but it does) 02:22:14 -!- sekhmet has joined. 02:23:03 re 02:38:38 Night all. 02:41:59 cya sgep 02:51:07 -!- Sgep has quit. 03:03:50 -!- Arrogant has joined. 03:06:53 -!- sekhmet has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:07:17 -!- sekhmet has joined. 03:35:42 -!- sekhmet has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:42:07 -!- sekhmet has joined. 03:42:45 -!- sekhmet has quit (No route to host). 03:46:52 -!- sekhmet has joined. 03:53:39 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 04:01:22 -!- sekhmet has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:03:29 -!- KevinN has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:22:08 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:45:22 sekhmet, having problems? 04:51:26 who does the bf golf's? 04:51:37 Keymaker, right? 04:51:48 No clue :P 04:57:40 :P 04:58:09 maybe I should use the nifty new forum for it 04:58:40 err I meant "nifty" hehe 05:21:24 * calamari notes that it's hard to come up with good categories for esolangs that don't overlap 05:22:21 -!- duerig has joined. 05:23:12 !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/27689 05:23:41 foobar! 05:23:45 lol 05:23:48 Hmm. 05:23:49 That was slow 05:23:50 That is slow. 05:23:55 But it isn't done yet. 05:24:01 Or shouldn't be. 05:24:02 Haha 05:24:04 It's your interpreter ;) 05:24:09 Granted. 05:25:08 Except that it runs pretty much instantaneously on my computer. 05:25:20 !ps 05:25:30 Hmm 05:25:36 Must be lag, too. 05:25:37 Could the EgoBot be lagged down for some reason? 05:25:40 Ah. 05:25:43 Hahaha. 05:25:49 Anyhow, check out the code for that. 05:25:59 I had the idea as I was going to sleep last night. 05:26:02 Kind of obfuscatory. 05:26:09 1 Robdgreat: bf 05:26:11 2 ihope: lazyk 05:26:13 3 duerig: ps 05:26:15 I'm looking at it :-P 05:26:44 Running it on Egobot didn't finish. 05:26:49 How odd. 05:27:01 Yes it did ... 05:27:12 !kill 1 05:27:15 !kill 2 05:27:34 Process 1 killed. 05:27:35 !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/27689 05:27:36 Process 2 killed. 05:27:50 It only says 'foobar!' 05:27:55 It should say 'raboof!' too. 05:27:57 foobar! 05:28:09 !ps 05:28:12 The issue is probably that EgoBot isn't logged in. 05:28:22 To nickserv. 05:28:26 Oh. 05:28:27 1 duerig: ps 05:28:29 That could be it. 05:28:37 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:28:59 Oh well. 05:29:01 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to GregorR. 05:29:25 Anyhow, how did you like the code? It runs backwards and forwards over the same track, and does something subtly different each time. 05:29:26 Now try it. 05:29:34 !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/27689 05:29:42 (I ust made it log in) 05:29:49 I see. 05:29:57 foobar! 05:30:05 Nifty. 05:30:13 * duerig shakes the EgoBot's hand. 05:30:22 -!- GregorR_ has joined. 05:30:34 lol, my alter ego rejoined :P 05:30:43 Eh? 05:31:11 I killed my home connection through nickserv. 05:31:15 But it rejoined :P 05:31:15 I see. 05:31:19 Heh. 05:31:22 Interesting. 05:35:42 !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/27692 05:36:23 Hello, world! 05:36:56 * duerig cackles wickedly. 05:37:28 Whoops. I forgot to expire that pastebin. Oh well. 05:49:16 duerig: Did you see the nonesolang I was designing? 05:49:26 No. Tell me about it. 05:49:59 How 'bout I point you to the logs for yesterday :P 05:50:12 Ah. I'll read those. 05:50:31 Hmmm 05:50:38 The meme ones are lacking ... 05:50:50 I too am trying to design a nonesolang. But order of execution is hurting my head. 05:51:22 Heheh 05:51:37 Aha, the tunes.org logs are complete 05:52:25 Ok. 05:52:29 So for Nov. 4th. 05:52:42 It messes me up that they are in a completely different timezone than I am. :) 05:52:45 3rd 05:52:58 Yeah :P 05:54:08 btw, somebody should do a ternary bf some day. 05:55:40 Just to be pedantic, compiling to c is just as valid a compilation as compiling to some assembler. :) 05:56:04 But less difficult ;) 05:56:46 Actually, I disagree. 05:56:51 It is *more* difficult. 05:57:10 Actuall, I'm half considering compiling to C++ to get free OO 05:57:14 The backend is the same. 05:57:32 The code generation is simpler with a simpler instruction set. 05:58:06 To take advantage of c, you have to be more subtle than just using 'goto'. 05:58:09 For instance. 05:58:19 'cuz there are all those other kinds of constructs that are optimized in different ways. 05:58:31 That is just how I see it, though. 05:58:43 C-- would be a good language to generate 05:58:54 It's intended for that, isn't it. 05:58:56 I wouldn't compile to C++. Too much of a headache. 05:59:04 I'm not sure what C-- is. 05:59:22 What is the purpose of your new language? 05:59:45 can someone point me to a bf interpreter in a language whose only control structure is if/then/goto ? 05:59:50 Basicall, the power of C(++) but with a more scripting lang feel. 05:59:59 I've looked in the archives and haven't found any 06:00:15 Robdgreat: I'm sure there are ASM ones ... 06:00:36 good point 06:01:01 GregorR, what advantage will the scripting language feel get you? I know there are many advantages, I'm just wondering which ones are most important to you. 06:01:24 Dynamic typing, RAD are the primary ones. 06:02:09 Enough builtin stuff to make apps quickly is always nice :) 06:02:22 *nod*. I see. 06:02:34 RAD is rad 06:02:37 totally 06:03:15 lol 06:04:02 Hmm... my current vision of your language seems a lot like python. How does it differ? 06:04:22 Umm ... braces ;) 06:04:34 Hahaha. 06:04:46 btw, named constructors is *really* good! 06:05:02 One of the major flaws in C++ is the fact that all constructors must have the same name. 06:05:24 It's actually not very dissimilar to python, but there are things in python that I ust don't really like. 06:05:36 Hopefully, this language won't have 'em ;) 06:06:10 What do you dislike about python? 06:07:15 Well, a lot of it is actually syntactic - if I took a python interpreter, and changed the parser a bit, it would be pretty close ;) 06:07:35 Idonno, I haven't used Python in a while, so I don't remember the specifics I disliked. 06:07:45 I'll go read my Python book and get back to you ;) 06:08:46 I would be interested to know. I like the idea of python, but certain things about it make me nervous. 06:09:45 I don't know whether I can handle no braces. :) And the fact that subclassing is not done based on names kind of freaks me out. 06:10:04 But if I actually sat down with it, I'd probably get used to it. 06:10:11 Also it seems like you can change WAY too much at runtime ... 06:10:55 Somebody told me about his using a library, but remaking the whole central class to the library to do something he wanted >_< 06:11:10 In HIS CODE, not actually changing the library code. 06:11:42 That is kind of odd. 06:12:09 The problem is, you could fuck up somebody's code in your code, then submit a bug to their bugtracking system :P 06:13:02 True. But generally if you are dinking around with somebody else's code and something goes wrong, you can be pretty sure it is your own bug. 06:13:33 You underestimate how stupid people are ;) 06:13:52 Hahaha. Possibly. 06:14:04 But that is an easy thing to do. :) 06:16:26 It looks like your language could be interesting. 06:17:58 If I could give one bit of advice, though, that would be to focus onto one or a few design goals and then decide everything in relation to them. 06:19:09 One of my coworkers, a PHD student, wanted to design a language for his dissertation. His design goal was 'write a language that will take over the c/c++/java marketshare. Not a good design goal. :) 06:20:07 On the other hand, making a language good at RAD is a decent design goal. 06:20:08 That language would have to have a built-in do-everything construct. 06:20:50 It probably wouldn't take over even then. The kind of person who uses c wouldn't trust a do-everything construct. :) 06:20:57 True. 06:21:34 do-everything.loadWebpageAndRenderItPrettyLike() 06:21:42 Hahaha. 06:22:00 There is probably some Microsoft researcher trying to implement that class right this second! :-) 06:22:15 Probably 06:22:18 But it'll mess up on the pretty 06:22:26 Granted. 06:22:33 I'm going to idle for a bit. 06:22:39 Later. 06:22:42 Later. 06:22:42 -!- Arrogant has quit (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-"). 06:47:15 RobDGreat: still looking for an if/then/goto bf interpreter? 06:48:20 * calamari should code one for spaghetti :) 06:49:14 lol 06:51:35 actually I just got back to the comp 06:56:41 Robdgreat: any language preference? 07:05:51 times up! spaghetti here we come :) 07:23:22 I want to do one in atari basic 07:23:43 but right now I'm preoccupied with the Oracle of Bacon 07:25:01 * calamari is still figuring out how to read in the bf program :(, lol 07:25:32 had to re-learn the lang 07:34:53 Adolf Hitler and Ron Jeremy: 4 degrees of separation 07:49:43 bedtime 07:52:35 Robdgreat, don't do it in atari basic. Do it in atari assembler! 07:53:40 Atari assembler is great. You've gotta love those 8-bit registers. :-) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:14:12 mmm 6502 08:15:02 a few students are using my 5200bas compiler for a grad class project 08:17:17 coding in spaghetti has some 6502 similarities.. having to code high and low pointer bytes 09:03:53 -!- GregorR has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]"). 09:04:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:07:48 -!- calamari has joined. 09:26:10 re's 09:32:32 hrm 09:32:53 weird bug.. I can print "Hello Wor", but if I print the l it goes weird 09:39:29 fixed :) 09:39:42 I needed unsigned char in not just char 09:44:48 hahah for spaghetti c output -O3 is smaller than -Os 10:10:53 -!- jix has joined. 10:19:37 debugging... 10:19:55 hi jix, bye jix 10:19:57 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 10:44:24 Jix: debugging? 10:45:51 i'm working on my bf text-output-code generator 10:49:07 -!- sp3tt has joined. 10:59:29 c++ sucks.. 10:59:41 i'm not going to continue writing this in c++ 11:33:31 -!- duerig has quit ("Leaving"). 14:25:11 -!- sp3tt_ has joined. 14:38:03 Robdgreat: Was that just me splitting all the time? I had figured that was something going on with Freenode in general 14:42:01 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:44:40 sekhmet: you appeared to have been repeatedly getting booted 15:45:20 oh wait 15:45:31 you split twice and once was no route to host 16:01:00 GregorR_: ... target)))))))) ;) 16:01:06 writing lisp is fun 16:45:08 -!- Sgep has joined. 16:48:51 jix: ruby! :o) 16:49:11 ruby is too slow 16:49:18 i used ruby for prototyping the algorithm 16:49:41 yeah, fair enough 16:50:40 i implemented a binary heap in lisp... the code looks... lispy ;) 16:53:20 :D 16:53:29 gotta heart them brackets 16:53:36 incidentally, have you ever heard of D? 16:53:56 yes it's a horror to compile it 16:54:18 i gave up... 16:54:36 yeah? hmm 16:55:03 shame, I've heard good things about it 16:55:06 never used it myself 17:00:04 * Sgep needs to leave for 30min 17:00:51 -!- Sgep has quit. 17:05:55 hmm, I wish I knew more about website performance 17:06:08 why? 17:06:31 'cause I'm kicking around an idea for a CMS, but I'm not quite sure about stuff 17:06:38 like the performance of disk reads vs database reads 17:08:25 data base searches faster database faster for small data sets (texts etc, account informations) harddisk ist faster for files (images etc) configurations is faster if it's written in native code 17:08:39 some things changes if you have a process that answers multiple requests 17:08:57 than configurations should be yaml or something human readable and parsed once not once per request 17:09:11 hmm, right 17:09:20 so it's basically always a better idea to store stuff in databases? 17:11:42 no it's bad to store downloads and images in databases 17:11:57 but you may store the paths to the files in the database 17:11:58 er, sorry, yeah, by stuff I meant pages 17:12:03 yes 17:12:29 if you have multiple requests/process you may want to cache some pages 17:12:44 or parts of pages 17:13:39 heh 17:13:54 it's terrible, I keep throwing around ideas and either ending up at "oh, wait, that's PHP" 17:14:02 or "oh, wait, that's smarty" 17:14:15 smarty? 17:14:21 php templating engine 17:14:30 do not use php 17:14:39 np: Ensiferum - Guardians Of Fate [ Ensiferum ] 17:15:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarty <--- etc 17:15:13 and yeah, I'm not using php - it's icky :P 17:17:08 use lisp!)))))) ;) 17:17:45 or with slime: use lisp!C-x C-q 17:18:24 haha 17:21:12 but yeah, it's tough to come up with any ideas without realising you're just duplicating someone else's work 17:22:40 * jix has to eat something 17:22:42 bbl 17:31:51 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:34:38 -!- Sgep has joined. 18:00:28 -!- Sgep has quit. 18:01:25 -!- calamari has joined. 18:02:02 hi 18:25:24 c++ sucks... 18:25:32 moin calamari 18:40:12 -!- Keymaker has joined. 18:40:14 hello 18:40:44 moin Keymaker 18:43:13 hi 18:43:16 how's going? 18:43:30 i switched back to lisp because c++ sucks 18:43:44 ah 19:18:01 -!- sp3tt__ has joined. 19:27:17 was there some way to list the channels and their topic? 19:27:30 or is some client feature? 19:27:37 *is it 19:31:19 -!- sp3tt_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:39:23 -!- Sgep has joined. 19:50:24 -!- sp3tt___ has joined. 20:06:20 -!- sp3tt__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:07:10 -!- sp3tt____ has joined. 20:14:24 Keymaker: /list 20:15:02 cheers 20:21:22 -!- sp3tt___ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:22:10 -!- GregorR has joined. 20:22:20 I finally updated my hats page :P 20:22:46 cool! 20:22:51 cool! 20:23:33 maybe you should update the text too? 20:23:40 D'oh >_< 20:23:51 :D 20:23:57 the fez picture is fun 20:24:01 Hmm, just saw a commercial that seemed a lot like Santa Clause and Garth Brooks were going to have gay sex. 20:24:21 hmmm, i know garth brooks but who is santa clause? 20:24:31 (joke) 20:25:13 i have no idea who is garth brooks 20:25:49 country music artist.. eew country 20:26:32 np: Ensiferum - Lai Lai Hei [ Iron ] 20:26:36 hmh 20:26:47 i don't like country 20:26:56 i assume ensiferum is country band? 20:27:04 no.... 20:27:08 Nobody in their right mind likes country. 20:27:17 i don't like country 20:27:17 But anyway, I fixed the text :P 20:27:22 :) 20:27:33 jix: yeah, i guessed 20:27:41 ensiferum is melodic death metal 20:28:16 * jix is bad at music categorisation i just copied that description from somewhere 20:28:21 ok 20:28:33 i just stopped today at one finnish web music store 20:28:45 they had probably hundred metal categories 20:29:01 And Gregor doesn't like any of 'em :P 20:29:17 Keymaker: btw, did you run the bf golf contests a while back? 20:29:46 GregorR: you know you secretly like hair metal .. :P 20:29:56 Yeaaaaaaaaah ... no. 20:30:29 ensiferum is a finnish band btw 20:30:55 GregorR: what's your favorite music? 20:31:18 Hmmm, I'd have to go with Romantic-era Russian. 20:31:46 any online samples? 20:31:48 Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, Ippolotov-Ivanoff, etc. 20:32:05 Well, I'm sure you've heard Flight of the Bumblebee, that's by Rimsky-Korsakov. 20:32:26 yeah i'm sure i heard something of them but i'm sure i don't remember the name 20:32:35 SCOOTER!!!!!!!! 20:32:39 is my favourite band 20:32:44 Heh, just google any of them, I always buy CDs so I don't know of any particular sites. 20:32:56 Oh, Balakirev too. 20:32:59 calamari: no, i haven't ran any bf golf contests, 20:33:03 just three of my own 20:33:05 scooter is music? 20:33:12 yes it is! 20:33:18 Keymaker: oic 20:33:19 No, Scooter is vehicle ;) 20:33:36 calamari: and the latest one ended few days ago 20:33:44 without any entries :( 20:34:08 even i, as a competition planner, didn't get mine done 20:34:22 Keymaker: url? 20:34:32 Anyway, I'm off again, byeeeeeeeeeeeeee 20:34:38 bye 20:34:44 cya ego 20:34:44 -!- GregorR has quit ("*POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF*"). 20:34:58 http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1360541&forum_id=201037 20:36:10 I have an idea for a new contest... it shouldn't be especially difficult 20:36:15 tell me! 20:36:57 in my automata/grammars/tcm clas we have discussed the various models of computation 20:37:08 aha 20:38:30 one problem a finite automaton couldn't solve was L = a^n b^n, (basically two strings of characters of equal length) 20:38:43 but a context free language could, because of its stack 20:39:07 however, a context-free lang can't handle a^n b^n c^n 20:39:44 so I thought it'd be neat to see the shortest bf program that would either accept/reject an input based on whether it fits a^n b^n c^n 20:40:15 for example aaaabbbbcccc is in the language, but aaaabccc would not be 20:40:52 hmmm, i still don't get it :) i'm sorry, i'm dumb 20:41:25 aaaa bbbb cccc, another way to write it is a^4 b^4 c^4 20:41:35 so in that case n=4=4=4 20:41:49 mmh 20:42:04 but aaaa b ccc = a^4 b^1 c^3, 4 != 1 != 3 20:42:15 yeah 20:42:17 so it is not in the language a^n b^n c^n 20:42:23 now i see 20:42:28 :9 20:42:37 that'd be neat 20:42:46 it's considered the canonical example of a language requiring a turing machine 20:43:02 and there is no length limit for a b and c? 20:43:18 like: hah -- valid, aabc -- invalid 20:43:19 jix: correct.. it could definitely be more than 255 20:43:32 Keymaker: or bac invalid 20:43:37 since the order is wrong 20:43:40 hm? 20:43:44 what order? 20:43:50 it has to be the letters a b c in that order 20:43:59 ah 20:44:03 so abcabc is also not inthe language 20:44:29 what about 'hah'? 20:44:43 invalid 20:44:46 ok 20:44:53 sorry.. the alphabet is = {a, b, c} 20:45:00 only abc? 20:45:04 ok 20:45:06 but I think for the purposes of the contest that would be undefined 20:45:15 whatever, 20:45:19 abc is fine with me too 20:45:23 abc is good 20:45:27 yeah 20:45:32 I think it'd be okay for the contestant to choose any three ascii symbols (except spaces) 20:45:35 oh and the terminating character is 10 \n ok? 20:45:42 yeah 20:45:46 but it should be specified 20:45:50 naturally 20:45:56 i'll make the specification 20:45:56 perhaps it should be a b c then 20:46:02 I can write the spec 20:46:08 oh, ok then 20:46:14 another common form is 0^n 1^n 2^n 20:46:23 abc is better 20:46:34 ok, here's my suggestion: 20:46:46 1. write a brainfuck program that reads a file as input 20:46:48 I'd also like the form of output to be "accepted" or "rejected", but that may be too much trouble 20:47:07 no! thats good! 20:47:16 (because i'm working on bfgentext 20:47:24 2. read inputs, each separated from each other by unix new-line 20:47:29 okay, I'll review my notes and write up a format description of the language and examples 20:47:35 formal rather 20:47:40 3. output "valid" or "invalid" depending whether the data is 20:47:49 eof = no change 20:48:02 Keymaker: that's not traditional 20:48:11 Keymaker: the input is simply a string of characters 20:48:18 oh 20:48:20 Keymaker: eof will be 0 20:48:27 blah! 20:48:29 :D 20:48:34 or I should say \0 :) 20:48:42 perhaps \n is better 20:48:43 ok, so there will be only one input per program? 20:48:47 yes 20:48:49 so its aaabbbccc\0 ? 20:48:54 yeah \n is defnitelky better 20:48:55 thats not that easy to enter 20:49:01 \n is better 20:49:07 okay \n then :) 20:49:15 but entering it as file is rather easy 20:49:27 I'll write up a spec and then we can work out problems 20:49:35 especially if it's something like aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbccccccccccccccccccccccccccc 20:49:39 ok 20:49:46 calamari, this is excellent idea 20:49:50 thanks 20:50:19 i'll grab my brainfuck competition coding gloves 20:52:08 this'll be interesting! 20:52:19 are the abc always in that order? 20:53:08 should the program expect a^n b^m c^l \n or any input (like hah) 20:53:26 and how does the program tell whether it's valid or invalid input? 20:54:25 it outputs "accepted\n" or "rejected\n" 20:54:58 anyways, to mention, i think the input terminating would be better with 0, since eof = 0, one didn't need to enter anything 20:55:04 jix: ok 20:55:57 and thats why the terminator should be \n.. the output gets misplaced if the user doesn't press \n 20:56:22 i'm going to feed the input as file.. 20:56:43 \n shouldn't be a problem in a file 20:57:22 ..yep, it's not.. ..and most probably calamari, in case the input is long (which i suggest it should be), so he doesn't need to write 400 'a's etc.. 20:57:40 ..but \n looks ugly :) 20:57:52 but that's naturally just my (humble) opinion 20:57:57 \n is just one keypress more 20:58:22 but it doesn't look good in text editors.. 20:58:44 well, whatever calamari decides, i'm oppositing it unless it's 0. >xD 21:00:09 but anyways, i need to repeat once more: this competition idea is really good! seems like interesting 'test' or whatever, i haven't heard about it before. i wonder why i never realize good competition ideas like this.. 21:01:09 since calamari probably has more money than me, he should buy prizes for gold, silver, and bronze winners :D 21:01:35 something small like around-the-world trip.. 21:06:23 does anyone of you know string figures? 21:06:54 what are those? 21:07:13 take one long string loop and to hands with 5 fingers on each hand 21:07:30 yeah 21:07:36 then do some magical things and you get string figures 21:07:45 cool! 21:07:51 no, haven't heard of those before 21:09:03 here are figures for beginners: http://www.alysion.org/figures/introkids.htm 21:09:12 cheers 21:09:20 or with video clips: http://www.alysion.org/figures/introkids.htm 21:09:44 i'm able to "make" a dog that is able to walk if i extend 21:10:57 these look difficult.. 21:12:00 i want to make a photo of the dog (as i'm not able to find a description or photo of that figure on the internet) 21:12:07 but i can't find my webcam 21:12:25 :( 21:12:48 it's interesting that there's this kind of thing existing, and i have never heard of it 21:13:29 people have made all kinds of stuff.. 21:13:53 some get interested in some specific thing and dedicate all their freetime and effort on it 21:14:14 it's crazy.. :) ..but true. 21:15:17 string figures are very old.. (most are from the native americans) 21:15:40 yeah 21:28:49 back to lisp coding 21:29:05 calamari: how's the spec going? 21:29:21 yeah 21:29:41 by the way, any ideas for the competition starting date and deadline? 21:29:59 from now to in 5 mins? ;) 21:30:53 :) 21:32:09 -!- sp3tt____ has quit (Client Quit). 21:37:09 jix: going okay 21:37:17 jix: wrapping up the last few details 21:38:04 wrapping? aaargh! 21:38:28 oh and the bf implementation should use wrapping 21:38:45 :( 21:38:46 Keymaker's compo had no entries because it was nonwrapping 21:38:58 it was probably not because of that.. 21:39:02 it was 21:39:11 i was done implementing the important things using wrapping bf 21:39:12 bf golf has always had entries and it is non-wrapping ;) 21:39:45 and my laurent made an entry to my previous competition (and i got mine almost done) 21:39:57 it will be non-wrapping.. sorry jix :) 21:40:02 hrmpf 21:40:07 and the first one had a lot entries (and it was non-wrapping)! 21:40:14 :) 21:40:16 although I very much enjoy wrapping, it seems better to disallow it 21:40:18 but than make it nochange on decrement 0 instead of error 21:40:32 no! 21:40:40 * Keymaker suicides 21:41:18 sorry jix :) it's the bf golf tradition to not allow wrapping 21:41:22 hrmpf 21:41:23 ok 21:41:27 blame lament ;) 21:42:38 does bfdebug support nonwrapping? 21:42:54 because bfdebug is THE ULTIMATE bf coding utillity 21:43:31 just to note, before someone else does, the "and my laurent made" should be "and laurent made".. 21:44:27 bfdebug? 21:44:53 okay 21:44:54 ultimate bf debugger written by calamari (right?) 21:44:55 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=387#387 21:45:05 -!- Keymaker has quit ("This quote is unrelated to this context."). 21:45:08 jix: dunno about ultimate, but I really like it :) 21:45:29 had Keymaker a wrong button problem? 21:45:39 * Keymaker suicides 21:45:51 but he was able to talk after he wrote that 21:45:52 perhaps it took that long to die? 21:46:16 -!- Kmkr has joined. 21:46:20 grggh 21:46:24 you ok? 21:46:24 hrhr 21:46:28 i hate clicking the wrong window.. 21:46:36 * jix was right! 21:46:38 you had a vowel movement 21:46:54 i accidentally closed this window when trying to close that darn firefox 21:47:28 Rebdgreat: btw, I finished that Spagetti program last night and compiled it to c, so I can send you a bf interpreter using only if and goto :) 21:47:35 err Spaghetti 21:47:38 yummy 21:48:20 actually what I think would be great is an atari basic interpreter/compiler in c 21:48:58 I wrote a basic -> 6502 compiler for the Atari 5200, not sure if you were here when I mentioned that :) 21:49:08 yeah 21:49:16 how hard was that? 21:49:28 not too bad.. I didn't include expression parsing 21:49:34 it's a pretty lowlevel basic right? 21:49:36 yeah 21:49:58 I was able to include expression parsing, but I do not know how to optimize them yet 21:50:12 didn't send. 21:50:13 since the language was for writing games it needed to be fast 21:50:23 it must be my router 21:52:08 can you post it somewhere? 21:54:42 hmmm, seems the competition is on! 21:55:03 calamari: i'll report about in it in the brainfuck golf forums 21:55:14 (although nobody reads them anyways) 21:55:31 -!- GregorR has joined. 21:55:46 ssshhhh everybody, he's here 21:56:05 HEY GUYS U GOT MP3z?! 21:56:32 I CAN TRADE PR0N PM ME KTHXBYE 21:58:37 whatever gave them the idea that that's anything resembling clever? 21:58:49 lol 21:59:19 I type like that sometimes, but only because it's so idiotic it's funny. 21:59:36 Heheh 21:59:44 can you trade some corpse pics for some mp3s gregor? 22:00:05 ..and of course i'm not joking! 22:01:11 OMG NECROF33L334 IZ HOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!! 22:03:17 hey, cheers man, these pics are great.. i wish the local cemetery would as hot as the one over there.. 22:03:28 *would be 22:03:42 :o 22:08:37 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:08:51 -!- calamari has joined. 22:09:03 -!- calamari has quit (Client Quit). 22:09:07 -!- calamari has joined. 22:09:20 -!- calamari has left (?). 22:09:28 -!- calamari has joined. 22:09:34 hi 22:09:44 Hoi 22:09:51 linux is really stupid sometimes.. I bet I've been disconnected for about 15 minutes and didn't even know it 22:10:12 what was the last thing I said? 22:10:14 Nope, not even one. 22:10:17 it must be my router 22:10:44 I don't even have the last thing you said because you didn't talk after I connected. 22:10:55 calamari: i informed about the new competition in brainfuck golf forum 22:11:02 https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1380003&forum_id=201037 22:11:44 Nov 05 14:51:15 any comments on the writeup? 22:11:44 Nov 05 14:51:25 I had to have made at least one error :) 22:11:44 Nov 05 14:53:08 Ahh.. non wrapping memory array.. didn't mention that 22:11:44 Nov 05 14:53:21 thanks Keymaker :) 22:11:44 Nov 05 14:53:30 * calamari is reading Keymakers spec 22:11:45 Nov 05 14:58:46 okay .. edited :) 22:11:47 Nov 05 14:59:25 I suppose I should provide a reference interpreter. 22:11:49 Nov 05 15:04:23 how are entries usually handled? 22:11:51 Nov 05 15:04:45 do they get sent somewhere, or are they held on to until the contest is over and checked against their MD'4's? 22:11:54 Nov 05 15:04:51 err MD5's 22:11:55 lol 22:11:58 Nov 05 15:06:11 Robdgreat: http://kidsquid.com/bf2.c 22:12:10 thanks 22:13:12 Keymaker: how are entry submissions usually handled? 22:13:38 I want to participate in the contest, so they can't be sent to me :) 22:14:07 thanks calamari 22:14:22 Robdgreat: yw.. have fun :) 22:14:44 calamari: first md5s are posted before the deadline 22:14:52 Kmkr: then checked after? 22:14:59 ok 22:15:01 then, after deadline, the actual entries 22:15:08 that's how I had it.. just wanted to make sure :) 22:15:26 and the judge, who can also enter the competition by himself too, checks the md5s match the submitted programs 22:15:52 the md5s should be taken from a program that has nothing else than brainfuck characters in it 22:16:04 that way the checking if it matches the md5 is easier 22:17:01 anyways, good luck! :) 22:17:38 good point 22:18:27 *be back in few minutes* 22:27:27 hmm 22:30:43 -!- marcan has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:31:11 -!- marcan has joined. 22:45:25 calamari: the empty string is always followed by a new-line, too? 22:45:56 -!- duerig has joined. 22:46:43 calamari: and can there be strings like "ab"? 22:47:04 or is there at least three characters if the string is not empty? 22:52:31 you can have ab, but it is not in L 22:52:46 grrgh 22:52:46 and there will always be a trailing newline.. 22:52:49 ok 22:53:01 I'll clarify the spec 22:53:05 to the md5's 22:53:09 ok 22:53:21 jix: what? 22:53:21 you're already ready?! 22:53:29 everyone should precede the code with some non bf characters to avoid bruteforcing the md5 22:53:56 like calculating the md5 of bla+++ instead of +++ .. because it's easy to brute force brainfuck md5s if the code is small 22:53:59 hmm, but all the codes will be probably at least 300 instructions 22:54:02 jix: why would it matter? 22:54:07 cheating.. 22:54:08 300 instructions is ok 22:54:17 but like 40 instructions is brute-force-able 22:54:25 jix: the first posted entry (if two are the same) is the winner 22:54:37 oh 22:54:39 jix: doubtful with printing acceppted or rejected that it will be under 40 22:54:42 forgot that :9 22:55:01 * jix too 22:55:11 i'll eat gregor's newest hat if someone can get it under 500 22:55:31 Again - my hats, you can't just eat them. 22:55:36 :D 22:55:39 delicious.. 22:55:53 Tastes like felt :-P 22:56:03 * jix is ripping a cd into iTunes 22:58:48 * GregorR is ripping jix into shreds 22:59:04 * Kmkr is tripping 22:59:41 oh, not really, it just looked good with those other words 23:00:13 updated the spec 23:00:16 ok 23:00:21 what about prizes? 23:00:27 also added that not all input must be read 23:00:28 you need to promise at least joy of winning ;) 23:00:31 prizes? 23:00:53 hehe hadn't occured to me 23:01:05 :) 23:01:28 np: Ten Years After - Rock Your Mama [ Undead Live '68 ] 23:01:29 can't be money as I am poor :( 23:01:56 There's always sexual favors! 23:02:17 GregorR: thanks for offering the prize 23:02:26 >_> 23:02:28 <_< 23:02:40 :D 23:03:14 calamari: non-materialistic prizes are fine as well ;) 23:03:27 calamari: paint a picture 23:03:37 for example something graphical "i won a^n b^n c^n brainfuck competition" button 23:04:08 that's what i have sent laurent from the two competitions :D 23:04:21 i beat the sword master 23:04:35 hm? 23:04:44 in monkey island 1 23:04:52 never visited that place 23:04:58 if you beat the sword master you win a t-shirt saying "i beat the sword master" 23:05:12 nice 23:05:29 also, a t-shirt would be awesome if calamari has extra money :) 23:05:44 for whoever wins it.. 23:05:55 or a graphic for printing a t-shirt ;) 23:06:05 hehe 23:06:23 lol, I have neither extra money or graphic design skills.. just see my webpage for proof of that :) 23:06:38 I have a spare abacus, how's that? 23:06:48 cool! 23:06:54 ultra-cool! 23:06:59 is it tc? 23:07:02 or fsa? 23:07:09 mmh, no idea 23:07:19 probably not turing-complete at least 23:08:00 well you can move the "things" on the abacus to any position with arbitrary precision.. 23:08:09 haha @ http://bash.org/?574542 23:09:22 ^ well, if it's in usa i can understand 23:09:57 they have signs FIRE IS HOT don't they? 23:10:04 Yes :-P 23:10:19 Warning: Hot coffee is hot! 23:10:43 better pour some coffee on myself and sue somebody 23:11:16 Warning: stopping to breath may result in lack of oxygen 23:11:26 lol 23:11:31 it can?! 23:12:04 in some special cases.. yes 23:12:15 SURGEON GENERALS WARNING: Breathing toxins is bad for you! 23:12:51 okay added prizes section :) 23:13:19 Warning: running around naked and crying "i'm genius" may cause people to think you aren't genius 23:13:56 WARNING: FATTY FOOD MAKES YOU FAT! 23:14:01 * calamari should test that theory sometime 23:14:12 which one? 23:14:16 yours 23:14:33 GregorR: doesn't true for me 23:14:41 me neither 23:14:50 i'm eating and eating and eating without getting FAT 23:14:52 * calamari is a metabolism machine.. 23:15:00 SHUT UP! I don't want to hear about your metabolism! 23:15:23 on irc no one can see your waist :) 23:15:33 * Kmkr eats cheeseburger 23:15:43 you people are *FAT* 23:15:46 * GregorR eats a Keymaker. 23:15:58 that's 100000 cheeseburgers at once! 23:16:12 * GregorR gets fat. 23:16:22 haha 23:16:27 * calamari points and laughs 23:17:46 okay.. I need a forum category for bf and similar langs 23:17:54 what should it be called? 23:18:02 (as compared to 2-d's) 23:18:30 hmmm.. 1 dimensional languages? 23:20:09 okay, that's what I'll call it then :) 23:20:21 ok 23:29:48 -!- ihope has joined. 23:32:11 hmm, I already made forum.kidsquid.com .. I'll just add esoforum.kidsquid.com 23:40:32 -!- ihope has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]"). 23:52:45 well. 23:52:54 good night everyone 23:53:00 zzzZZZz 23:53:04 -!- Kmkr has quit ("This quote is unrelated to this context."). 23:59:02 -!- GregorR has quit ("NO FOREWARNING, I just quit!").