←2005-09-27 2005-09-28 2005-09-29→ ↑2005 ↑all
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00:39:38 <ihope> ...Hello!
00:39:47 <kipple> hi
00:40:01 <Arrogant> Ahoy.
00:40:12 <ihope> How's the, uh, stuff going?
00:40:22 <ihope> Whatever you happen to be doing?
00:40:44 <kipple> a bit slow... :)
00:41:01 <ihope> Okay. Now just what are you doing? :-)
00:41:25 <kipple> programming :)
00:41:48 <ihope> What language? Point-black range?
00:41:56 <ihope> *blank
00:43:40 <kipple> C# (don't understand the point-blank thingy)
00:44:06 <ihope> I'm theorizing another language based on points "
00:44:13 <ihope> (oops)
00:44:25 <ihope> Points "." and blanks " " inside ranges "[]"
00:47:26 <kipple> are those the only symbols?
00:47:36 <twobitsprite> sounds interesting... are ranges like b/f's loops?
00:48:22 <ihope> Uh. Yes and yes :-)
00:48:52 <ihope> I think points will be output and blanks will be nops.
00:49:39 <Wildhalcyon> Im still working on retooling glypho, and my fungeoid
00:49:45 <ihope> Of course, it would require some specialized EsoAPI :-)
00:50:16 <twobitsprite> ihope: what would "." be outputting?
00:50:16 <ihope> Ah yes. Glypho :-)
00:50:31 <ihope> What's under the current cell.
00:50:46 <twobitsprite> how do change which cell I'm looking at?
00:50:51 <ihope> That'd be zero normally, so obviously outputting zero must do something fun.
00:51:35 <ihope> ...Such as moving between cells or changing the current one.
00:52:07 <kipple> no need to clutter the spec with such details. leave it to the implementation
00:52:14 <twobitsprite> lol
00:52:22 <ihope> Ah right :-)
00:52:35 <twobitsprite> "this character does _something_ and that other character does _something else_"...?
00:52:47 <Wildhalcyon> ah, yes. "instruction characteristics left as an exercise to the reader"
00:52:54 <ihope> Yep.
00:53:19 <ihope> Just like Easy's I/O "base" instructions.
00:53:34 <kipple> "the implementation is free to interpret the instruction in whatever way it feels like, provided Turing completeness is achieved"
00:54:03 <ihope> X: Makes the language Turing-complete.
00:54:12 <Wildhalcyon> Glypho's i/o does the same thing - in fact, most languages I've devised do. I don't see any point in restricting the output characteristics of a low-level interpreted language.
00:54:37 <ihope> Hmm. Maybe I'll actually read the specs :-)
00:54:46 <Wildhalcyon> meh
00:55:03 <Wildhalcyon> Wait, what language are you talking about reading?
00:55:09 <ihope> Glypho.
00:55:13 <Wildhalcyon> Glypho's spec is abysmally and humiliatingly incomplete
00:55:20 <ihope> Heh...
00:55:27 <kipple> I've seen worse
00:55:28 <Wildhalcyon> and the "r" instruction is going to be turned into something else, more likely
00:55:32 <ihope> But surely it's more than the Esolang article!
00:56:05 <ihope> Okay. I'll "afk" until I can figure out how to do the "away" status this on this IRC client.
00:56:07 <Wildhalcyon> It is ihope, I didnt want to place the ENTIRE spec in the wiki article. There's too much fluff
00:56:10 <kipple> the spec isn't bad. it's contains all you need to implement it
00:56:13 <Wildhalcyon> ihope, what client?
00:56:38 <Wildhalcyon> kipple" especially since anything NOT mentioned in the spec is free for otheres to do as they please.
00:56:54 <kipple> hehe. good point
00:57:09 <Wildhalcyon> s/"/:/
00:57:28 <Wildhalcyon> I can't type well tonight.. keyboard's in a funky position today.
00:58:38 <kipple> how about using the r instruction for self-modification?
00:58:57 <Wildhalcyon> That could be fun too
00:59:02 <ihope> Uh. Chatzilla.
00:59:14 <Wildhalcyon> ihope, use /away
00:59:26 <Wildhalcyon> to return, use /back
00:59:27 <ihope> Makes sense...
00:59:28 <Wildhalcyon> Simple as pie
00:59:38 <Wildhalcyon> except Ive tried making pie before. Fairly complex.. :-(
01:00:00 <ihope> Seeing that picture of fish statues spitting water out of their mouths made me suddenly thirsty...
01:00:17 <Wildhalcyon> I could understand
01:02:48 <ihope> So... how do PC's communicate with their own northbridges?
01:03:13 <Wildhalcyon> using the Northbridge Messaging Complex
01:03:43 <ihope> ...Really?
01:03:45 <Wildhalcyon> hehe.. Im just kidding, I really have no clue
01:03:52 <ihope> :-)
01:04:12 <Wildhalcyon> but it sounded good. Especially if I added cool acronyms like NMC and the NMCC - northbridge messaging complex code
01:04:26 <ihope> Heh...
01:04:42 <ihope> Okay. Just where does a power supply supply the power, then?
01:05:23 <Wildhalcyon> NOT through the NMC, because its strictly for communication purposes
01:06:23 <ihope> Maybe the southbridge is actually where the CPU is attached, and the northbridge is just put in to throw us off?
01:07:14 <Wildhalcyon> hmm.. you're saying that computer design teams ADD complexity as a means of preventing reverse engineering?
01:07:19 <Wildhalcyon> INGENIOUS!
01:07:35 <ihope> And that's why the firmware is written in Malbolge!
01:07:42 <Wildhalcyon> I wonder if I could do the same thing with funge code...
01:08:30 <kipple> hmm. I see a way to exploit the GPL... you could compile all your code to brainfuck before releasing the source... ;)
01:08:59 <ihope> It says the source code must be "preferable" for modification.
01:09:25 <kipple> good
01:09:31 <ihope> Of course, one can "prefer" it to machine code...
01:10:31 <kipple> well, if didn't want other people to use the code, I'd definately prefer brainfuck to C
01:10:43 <ihope> Heh.
01:12:21 <ihope> But... if you don't want other to use it, why GPL it at all?
01:12:25 <Wildhalcyon> Hmmm. I think you'd have to have a REALLY sophisticated BF streamliner
01:12:34 <ihope> Ah right. Bundling.
01:13:06 <Wildhalcyon> Then have a C-unstreamliner
01:13:12 <Wildhalcyon> like the obfuscator ;-)
01:13:33 <ihope> I'd like to be able to just compile C into Brainfuck...
01:13:49 <Wildhalcyon> Well, yeah, I guess that would be pretty impressive
01:14:00 <ihope> Hah. Yes indeed...
01:14:41 <Wildhalcyon> You'd still have to do some streamlining - getting all the C variables close to one another to minimize BF "random access"
01:14:41 <ihope> Well, the parental units (I mean mother and father, of course) want Brainfuck to be called something else ;-)
01:15:04 <ihope> Yep. That's a nice problem with it.
01:15:15 <ihope> Of course, Brainfuck *is* a problem, no?
01:15:26 <Wildhalcyon> yes, ihope, yes it is
01:17:25 * Wildhalcyon thinks the doom movie is going to be ridiculously pathetic. 12-year-olds will eat it up, and maybe some fratboys, but even fans of the video game series will think that the movie is a pathetic hollywood cash-in
01:17:33 * Wildhalcyon is NOT a bitter old man
01:18:29 * ihope is suspicious
01:18:37 <ihope> ...but in a good way
01:19:10 <Wildhalcyon> Well, to offset that clause, let me say that no matter what, the doom movie cannot be any worse than Episode I
01:19:38 * kipple is not sure about that
01:20:19 <Wildhalcyon> I know. Both are worrying
01:20:27 <ihope> It will not be worse than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick... maybe.
01:20:51 <Wildhalcyon> Depends on the stick, I say
01:21:19 <Wildhalcyon> pencil? Bring it on. Hot poker covered in red-hot thorns? flip a coin!
01:21:21 <ihope> Whether it's a stick of butter or a memory stick...
01:21:59 <Wildhalcyon> I argue that sticks of butter AND memory sticks are not sharp.
01:22:20 <ihope> An old CPU then.
01:22:38 <Wildhalcyon> Hmm, alright
01:23:05 <Wildhalcyon> The upcoming Doom movie will be roughly as bad as poking yourself in the eye with an old CPU
01:23:39 <ihope> I won't watch it then ;-)
01:24:08 <Wildhalcyon> Well, of course not, your eye is going to take a while to repair from that incident involving the old CPU
01:24:24 <Wildhalcyon> rent it on DVD or something
01:26:21 <Wildhalcyon> Anyhow, back ontop something of a topic: I've been thinking of developing a TRANSCRIPT decendent
01:26:30 <ihope> Ooh!
01:28:01 * kipple thinks that is a good idea
01:28:15 <Wildhalcyon> Im trying to figure out how to add functions by moving to different rooms
01:28:22 <Wildhalcyon> like "GO EAST"...
01:28:24 <ihope> >:-)
01:30:28 <Wildhalcyon> The problem is that moving to different rooms.. its a temporal action, it wouldn't be as easy to fit it into the "transcript of an IF game" scenario
01:31:51 <Wildhalcyon> I think Ive got some ways to implement it, but I'll have to think on it
01:32:07 <ihope> I'd like the "X" command in Transcript to be changed to "TALK TO".
01:32:32 <ihope> Erm wait... never mind.
01:32:36 <Wildhalcyon> ?
01:32:43 <Wildhalcyon> Alrighty\
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03:31:09 <Wildhalcyon> is there a bf implementation for palm pilots?
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04:00:44 <kipple> no idea.
04:00:59 <kipple> I made one for my cell phone, but it didn't work :(
04:01:24 <kipple> worked in the emulator, so it was difficult to debug
04:03:24 <Wildhalcyon> Hmm, that's rough, alright
04:03:42 <Wildhalcyon> It'd be sweet to have portable executable bf code
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06:32:20 <nooga> hello
06:32:46 <GregorR> Hola.
06:33:42 <nooga> Que tal? :>
06:33:53 <GregorR> Bueno, y tú?
06:34:09 <GregorR> (Hmm, is there supposed to be a ´ there ...?)
06:34:27 <nooga> i see only some werid signs :>
06:34:35 <GregorR> lol
06:34:46 <nooga> nvm
06:35:07 <GregorR> So what's the latest esoteric news in your corner of the universe?
06:35:37 <nooga> haha, nothing special...
06:35:51 <nooga> im thinkin about my new language called o-o
06:35:59 <GregorR> Yes, I saw the web page on that.
06:36:42 <nooga> :)
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06:37:31 <calamari> hi
06:38:03 <nooga> hi calamari
06:38:24 <calamari> hi nooga
06:38:28 <calamari> how are you doing?
06:40:01 <nooga> fine, thank you
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12:51:25 <Keymaker> hmm
12:53:31 <Keymaker> where has fizzie gone?
12:53:39 <Keymaker> he used to be here all the time..
12:53:51 <Keymaker> at least on summer..
13:03:20 <pgimeno> 20050815T114349 <-- fizzie has quit ("Siirretaanpa sahkojohtoa, maalaavat muuten yli sen.")
13:07:01 <Keymaker> lol
13:07:16 <Keymaker> "let us move the electric cabel, otherwise they will paint over it"
13:07:20 <Keymaker> roughly translated :)
13:08:08 * jix is still coding c
13:08:20 <Keymaker> :)
13:08:54 <jix> there a three ways in c to write "{" (without ...) : "{" "<%" "??<"
13:09:00 <jix> cool for obfuscating code
13:09:05 <jix> you can mix them too
13:09:14 <jix> <% ??> is equivalent to { }
13:09:38 <jix> the ??* codes can be used in quotes too because they are converted before the code gets parsed
13:10:18 <jix> they where introduced for non ascii machines (afaik)
13:11:08 <Keymaker> cool :)
13:12:00 <jix> i'm still writing my ultra cool compression algorithm
13:12:18 <Aardwolf> I know a good compression algorithm:
13:12:28 <kipple> what are you compressing? text? images? bf-code?
13:12:34 <jix> sudo rm -rf /
13:12:36 <jix> kipple: anything
13:12:43 <jix> you want
13:12:48 <jix> it's ultra cool
13:12:49 <Aardwolf> take all the 0's and 1's of the file, and then store them in a new order: first all the 0's, then all the 1's. Then zip this. Ultra good compression.
13:13:13 <jix> Aardwolf: uhrm.. and a decompression too (lossless)
13:13:17 <jix> you can't unsort
13:13:43 <jix> but bzip2 uses a approach that is a bit like "sorting the file"
13:13:47 <Keymaker> jix: sounds cool!
13:14:18 <Aardwolf> k it was sort of a joke, didn't invent it myself tho
13:14:36 <jix> Aardwolf: yeah i know.. but the funny thing is bzip2 sorts the file
13:15:22 <jix> but not the bytes by its own value but by the value of all bytes infront of it (with looping back to the byte)
13:15:31 <Aardwolf> wow
13:15:45 <jix> it's a transformation called BWT (Burrow-Wheeler transformation)
13:15:47 <Aardwolf> and is it better than zlib?
13:15:54 <jix> in most cases it is
13:16:12 <jix> thats why source.tar.bz2 is smaller than source.tgz
13:18:00 <Aardwolf> what's like the maximul accelaration a human body can survive?
13:18:04 <Aardwolf> *maximum
13:18:26 <jix> it's slower than the speed of light
13:18:42 <Aardwolf> accelaration != speed :)
13:18:42 <jix> oh accelaration not speed
13:18:56 <jix> i just saw that...
13:19:35 <jix> its less than speed_of_light/s ;)
13:19:45 <kipple> I don't think anybody know if a human can survive light speed... (if that is possible at all)
13:19:54 <jix> kipple: impossible
13:20:11 <Aardwolf> I'm making a space game and need a realistic value for the accelaration of the spaceships
13:20:25 <jix> Aardwolf: space game AND realistic ?!
13:20:27 <kipple> jix: according to current theoretical physics, yes (but such things has changed in the past)
13:20:55 <jix> kipple: i'm not that into physics
13:21:05 <pgimeno> uh, Frontier uses 25g witout problems even if I think that's unrealistic
13:21:08 <Aardwolf> as realistic as possible without being too boring ;)
13:21:23 <pgimeno> anyway there are "workarounds"
13:21:32 <Aardwolf> but um currently I try it with 1000g and going to the moon is still taking way too long :(
13:21:50 <pgimeno> ouch, that'd hurt
13:22:13 <kipple> speeding up time instead might be better (unless it's multiplayer)
13:22:31 <jix> Aardwolf: do a kickstart and start with blabla km/h and than use 1000g
13:22:56 <Keymaker> aardwolf: sounds interesting.. what kind of game?
13:23:00 <pgimeno> when pushed by a flat, rigid surface the bones would break at much less acceleration
13:23:57 <pgimeno> yeah kipple, time speedup is the approach used by Frontier and the rest of the "family"
13:24:06 <Aardwolf> keymaker: currently I plan it to be somewhat like Frontier: Elite, but you'll also be able to walk around in your spaceship and walk around on planets
13:24:06 <kipple> wikipedia: "modern pilots can typically handle 9 g (90 m/s)"
13:24:16 <Keymaker> cool
13:24:17 <Keymaker> 3d?
13:24:23 <Aardwolf> yes 3D with opengl
13:24:25 <Keymaker> nice
13:24:32 <pgimeno> I've got a basic Frontier-like 3D engine on my webpage with time acceleration
13:24:35 <Keymaker> (btw, never seen or played frontier: elite)
13:24:35 <Aardwolf> but nothing fancy though, no high-poly things or shiney effects
13:24:47 <Keymaker> i'd like to be able to do 3d stuff
13:24:49 <jix> Aardwolf: :(
13:25:00 <jix> i want cool pixel shader effects!
13:25:06 <Keymaker> :)
13:25:08 <jix> and smoothed surfaces
13:25:21 <Aardwolf> in frontier: elite you basically have to fly from star system to star system to trade goods and get more money for better ships and weapons to fight pirates
13:25:29 <kipple> so what are you coding it in? Deltaplex?
13:25:33 <Keymaker> :D
13:25:43 <Keymaker> i was just thinking deltaplex..
13:25:43 <Aardwolf> lol no, but I'm using the same engine as the one for deltaplex :)
13:26:24 <Aardwolf> btw I rarely finish a project so I hope I'll finish this one :)
13:26:49 <Keymaker> :)
13:27:11 <jix> my start finish ratio is 100/1
13:27:16 <Keymaker> :)
13:27:18 <Aardwolf> :)
13:27:36 <Aardwolf> btw currently there's only an earth and a moon and both look green
13:27:44 <pgimeno> for the record, there's a SF novel which suggest placing a mini black hole in the front of the ship to counter the effect of acceleration over the pilot
13:27:58 <Aardwolf> hehe :)
13:28:18 <Aardwolf> but how to move the black hole?
13:28:27 <pgimeno> hey, it's SF :)
13:28:29 <Keymaker> (talking about physics, i should be reading them at the moment.. stupid exam..)
13:28:30 <Aardwolf> I mean it's so heavy that it would require massive amounts of energy to move :)
13:28:30 <jix> Aardwolf: pull it or push it
13:29:01 <jix> place another black hole in front of it and let it pull the first one
13:29:22 <Keymaker> yeah, they are so easy to move around :)
13:30:14 <Aardwolf> :D
13:30:39 <Aardwolf> I wonder if it is theoretically possible to make a lightweight gravity generator
13:34:51 <Aardwolf> hmm what's the acceleration of a plane when it takes off?
13:36:32 <Keymaker> probably 0
13:37:13 <Keymaker> i hate physics, i rather like philosophy that says that acceleration doesn't exist
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13:52:38 <Keymaker> 'i
13:52:48 <jix> moin Wildhalcyon
13:52:58 <Wildhalcyon> moin jix
13:53:02 <Wildhalcyon> how's things?
13:53:16 <jix> :(
13:54:09 <Wildhalcyon> why so down sir?
13:54:20 <Wildhalcyon> Can't afford the new pda you've been dreaming of?
13:54:28 <jix> my compression code is still unfinished and i'm still feeling ill
13:54:36 <jix> and i could buy 2 of the pdas
13:54:43 <Wildhalcyon> Oh, well.. I have a simple solution jix
13:54:55 <jix> hrhr
13:55:13 <jix> but i don't want to spend the money on them because i want to buy a new computer
13:55:15 <Wildhalcyon> call in sick to work and spend the time working on your compression algorithm
13:55:39 <jix> i don't work
13:55:41 <Wildhalcyon> what about a tablet PC jix? Its a half-way point
13:55:46 <Wildhalcyon> oh, well then whats the problem?
13:55:57 <jix> i have to go to school
13:56:11 <Wildhalcyon> Ohh, school
13:56:48 <Wildhalcyon> stupid gmail keeps telling me the document contains no data, when it *clearly* does. Sometimes the internet bites
13:57:46 <Keymaker> yes
13:58:06 <Wildhalcyon> I think Im going to develop my transcript derivative to be interactive, like Forth
13:58:46 <jix> make it interative like irb
13:58:46 <Wildhalcyon> >THERE IS A CUP
13:58:47 <Wildhalcyon> You spy a cup that you have never seen before.
13:58:52 <jix> (interactive ruby interpreter)
13:59:31 <Wildhalcyon> >JOHN IS HERE
13:59:33 <Wildhalcyon> You notice John walk into the room.
14:00:05 <Wildhalcyon> see? It could be lots of fun - you think.. HEY, Im in an Interactive Fiction game!.. then it turns out that you're not, you're really programming
14:00:31 <jix> TELL JOHN TO USE THE CUP (function call)
14:00:42 <jix> john has no idea how to use the cup (undefined function)
14:01:07 <Wildhalcyon> in order to quit, you'll have to say "THERE IS A DARK LORD OF EVIL" followed by "DEFEAT THE DARK LORD OF EVIL"
14:01:17 <jix> you can use the cup to drink (add to the cup function a call to the function drink)
14:01:29 <jix> you can use the cup to print "hello, world!" ...
14:01:42 <Wildhalcyon> Hmmm, this could have possibilities
14:01:48 <Wildhalcyon> how would I code the "drink" function though?
14:02:02 <jix> if you want to drink you have to....
14:02:07 <Wildhalcyon> You'd really have to have outside function definitions, not like Forth's define feature
14:02:26 <jix> casting function pointers in c is fun!
14:02:45 <Wildhalcyon> I like function pointers, except C bastardizes them into something horrific.
14:02:52 <jix> rv.read_data = (size_t(*)(void*, size_t, size_t, void*))fread;
14:03:04 <Wildhalcyon> AAAHHH!! LOOK AWAY! LOOK AWAY!
14:03:08 * Wildhalcyon looks away
14:03:29 <jix> that's a stupid syntax
14:03:50 <Wildhalcyon> Stupid? STUPID? It SCREAMS idiocy
14:04:27 <jix> haha this car got hacked: http://dimka.ee/foo/audiA8.html
14:04:34 <Wildhalcyon> They should have used the @ sign for it
14:04:53 <Wildhalcyon> That's cool
14:05:24 <Wildhalcyon> Sometimes OOP goes horribly wrong. I may have to invent my own OOP language
14:05:35 <jix> c is not oop
14:05:38 <kipple> jix: a nice example of brute force hacking!
14:05:42 <Wildhalcyon> It'll be simple, without all the fluff.
14:05:53 <Wildhalcyon> No Jix, but C++ claims to be (still questionable)
14:05:53 <jix> ruby is simple
14:06:06 <jix> c++ object-ori... wtf?
14:06:22 * Wildhalcyon wonders how to obfuscate BF code
14:06:32 <Wildhalcyon> kipple: hahaha
14:07:26 * Keymaker thinks if he should give away information about his secret brainfuck project, or just some annoying pieces of information to and keep it secret
14:07:51 <Wildhalcyon> Keymaker, Im still in doubt about its existence
14:08:00 <Keymaker> lol
14:08:09 <Wildhalcyon> but it can't be cooler than interactive TRANSCRIPT
14:08:15 <Keymaker> no, it isn't
14:08:24 <Wildhalcyon> but its close to existing, so thats a plus
14:08:25 <Keymaker> but by the way, this new project is what i just started few mins ago
14:08:35 <Keymaker> it's not the one i mentioned long ago
14:08:43 <Wildhalcyon> keymaker: I start a new project ~ every 30 minutes
14:08:46 <jix> tell us about it
14:08:48 <Keymaker> heh
14:09:03 <jix> Wildhalcyon: hah i start a new one every 29.57464 minutes
14:09:07 <Keymaker> (the one wh doesn't believe exists is under work as well)
14:09:46 <Wildhalcyon> and the problem is.. I don't DROP any of them. I'm still working on my colorized OO funge varient, my glypho interpreter, interactive transcript, slightly-3D SNUSP, etc...
14:10:05 <Keymaker> i start and drop.. but i have couple of under work
14:10:22 <jix> Keymaker: same here
14:10:29 <Wildhalcyon> Im starting to wonder if I'll ever develop my funge-language roguelike
14:11:33 * Wildhalcyon wonders how much the pickaxes in the audi cost per piece. Thats some sweet vengance - someone must have forked over the dough
14:12:26 <Keymaker> it was cool hack :)
14:12:43 <jix> LOL i just read pickaxe and thought you're talking about ruby
14:13:09 <jix> because the book "Programming Ruby" from pragprog has the nickname pickaxe because it has a pickaxe on the cover
14:14:39 <Wildhalcyon> Alright you crazy programmers, I need to go get ready for my midterm (another one, yay!)
14:14:49 <jix> midterm?
14:15:05 <jix> a terminal emulator?
14:15:06 <Wildhalcyon> yeah. Its a test, in the middle of the term.
14:15:08 <jix> like xterm
14:15:23 * jix looks up term
14:15:23 <Wildhalcyon> nah, xterm is cool, midterms suck
14:15:29 <Wildhalcyon> term == semester
14:15:34 <jix> ah
14:15:38 <jix> ok
14:15:49 <{^Raven^}> the authentication process to login to a midterm is a b*tch
14:16:20 <Wildhalcyon> no kidding Raven. I need my student ID card, a pencil with a decent eraser, and for this class a non-programmable calculator
14:17:02 <jix> in school math test we are allowed to use graphical+programmable calculators
14:17:32 <jix> but at the "Mathe Olympiade"(math olympics) we may only use simple calculators
14:18:45 <Wildhalcyon> Yeah, its similar here
14:19:00 <jix> maybe because our math teacher doesn't know that we know how to use the programmable calculators "efficient"
14:19:11 <Wildhalcyon> Anyhow, I'll be back later on, with some fresh ideas on how to obfuscate already troublesome concepts
14:19:20 <jix> mathe olympiade is cool
14:20:22 * {^Raven^} thought up two new esolangs last night
14:20:55 <jix> {^Raven^}: cool
14:21:15 <Keymaker> nice
14:21:36 <Keymaker> dream or didn't you get to sleep?
14:24:05 <Keymaker> in better english: "did you invent them in a dream or didn't you get any sleep and invented them on that time?"
14:24:30 <{^Raven^}> sleep deprivation probably. last night == 6am
14:25:07 <Keymaker> ok
14:25:22 <{^Raven^}> i've never implemented an esolang before so this will be fun
14:25:29 <Keymaker> ah
14:26:19 <jix> than don't tell me enough about it that i'm able to implement it
14:26:32 <Keymaker> hehe
14:26:34 <jix> i'm known for implementing things just because someone talked about it;)
14:26:54 <{^Raven^}> heh, i'm not sure i know enough about them yet
14:28:36 <Wildhalcyon> hahaha, unfortunately for jix he implemented glypho before it was ready
14:28:47 <Keymaker> heh
14:35:25 <Keymaker> aargh.. i really need to go reading now.. bbl
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14:39:00 <{^Raven^}> hmmm, one of these languages is possibly going to be *very* difficult to write programs for
14:39:11 * {^Raven^} forgets if that is a good thing or not
14:39:40 <Aardwolf> good
14:39:44 <Aardwolf> :D
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14:45:24 <jix> my c macros are growing too fast
14:45:50 <Wildhalcyon> morning (or whatever time it is for you) Nooga
14:46:00 <nooga> 3 pm :)
14:46:02 <jix> 17 line macros...
14:46:14 <nooga> morning Wildhalcyon :>
14:46:19 <jix> moin nooga
14:46:31 <nooga> hi jix
14:46:41 <Wildhalcyon> Jix, what are they supposed to do?
14:47:00 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: first program... cat is '-12318683s6x5e'
14:47:06 <jix> they do special buffered fast byte and bit IO
14:48:44 <Wildhalcyon> Jix, are they in asm?
14:48:52 <jix> no in c
14:49:01 <jix> but i can't use inline functions there
14:52:51 <jix> my lib is written in portable 32bit c99 and should run on every >= 32bit machine and is able to handle any filesize
14:53:53 <Wildhalcyon> very nice jix
14:55:49 <jix> i think the api is simple and flexible
14:56:10 <jix> you can use it for file => file mem => file mem => mem ....
14:58:05 <{^Raven^}> jix: comp.lang.c comes to mind (if you dare)
14:58:34 <nooga> ~
14:59:18 <jix> {^Raven^}: hm?
15:01:19 <{^Raven^}> jix: usenet group where you can ask questions about the standard C language
15:01:30 <jix> i have no questions
15:01:38 <{^Raven^}> ok
15:03:18 <jix> maybe i ask an operator to free the channel #comression ( Contact: TheStar, last seen: 2 years 5 weeks 2 days (6h 11m 32s) ago) only chenserv and me in there
15:05:44 <Wildhalcyon> Hmmm, compression is fun
15:06:41 <Wildhalcyon> unfortunately, glypho is what I consider anti-compression. It takes more information to encode glypho than it actually contains (at least, in the 4 symbol case.. I think its worse as the string length increases)
15:07:26 <jix> no.. with string length 1 it needs 1 byte for.. uhm 1 symbol
15:07:32 <jix> best cas is length 2
15:07:41 <jix> 2 bytes for 2 symbols
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15:08:41 <Wildhalcyon> Im comparing the number of possible glypho symbols v. the number of possible normal symbols.
15:09:19 <Wildhalcyon> with a 4-symbol 4-length alphabet, glypho can encode 15 unique symbols, while "conventional" encoding can encode 4^4 = 256
15:10:52 <Wildhalcyon> with a 2-symbol 2-length alphabet, you're looking at 2 glypho v. 2^2 = 4 conventional
15:11:54 <Wildhalcyon> it gets worse if you consider the "loss
15:12:18 <Wildhalcyon> "loss" associated with the english alphabet - 15 v. 26^4
15:14:03 <Wildhalcyon> Ah well, its still cool ;-) And it might be uber-compressible with the short alphabet.
15:29:56 <jix> it's über not uber
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15:40:02 <jix> wb Wildhalcyon
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16:09:36 <Wildhalcyon> man, my internet is freaky again
16:11:44 <nooga> heh
16:12:05 <nooga> i think taht SQL should be classified as esolang too
16:12:35 <jix> c too
16:13:30 <nooga> C is quite clear, SQL is not
16:13:48 <jix> quite clear?
16:13:48 <jix> rv.read_data = (size_t(*)(void*, size_t, size_t, void*))fread;
16:14:19 <nooga> erm
16:14:28 <nooga> some sort of cast?
16:14:33 <jix> yes
16:14:35 <Wildhalcyon> its a function pointer
16:14:45 <Wildhalcyon> which we've been ranting about all day
16:14:57 <nooga> huh
16:15:03 <jix> yes that's casting of function pointers... and that's ugly
16:15:25 <Wildhalcyon> A lot of languages have ugly constructs though. Perl is the worst imo
16:15:37 <nooga> then i'll maybe go back to my PHP app...
16:16:38 <jix> and a lot of languages fore one to use them
16:16:41 <jix> force
16:16:52 <nooga> hah, i love perl for those werid constructs
16:17:25 <jix> nooga: your host is a perl script ;)
16:17:31 <jix> ...rev.inter-c.pl
16:17:43 <nooga> :>
16:17:55 <nooga> like almost every host here, in Poland :>
16:18:04 <jix> ;)
16:18:08 <nooga> we've got .pl domain :>
16:18:12 <jix> i know
16:18:18 <nooga> perlish country huh? :>
16:18:24 * Wildhalcyon is a perl script $_
16:18:41 <jix> Wildhalcyon is away
16:18:58 <Wildhalcyon> hmm.. I suppose I am, at that
16:19:09 <Wildhalcyon> Im about to leave anyways, soon as I can find my shoes..
16:19:13 <jix> whois says so....
16:20:32 <Wildhalcyon> whois is right, I gotta go
16:20:36 <Wildhalcyon> I'll talk with you later Jix
16:20:41 <nooga> Wildhalcyon: From perl i like that: my $foo = shift || 10;
16:20:59 <nooga> and many more things :>
16:21:18 <jix> ruby: foo = (ARGV.shift || 10).to_i
16:21:30 <nooga> ha :>
16:21:32 <nooga> longer
16:21:37 <jix> if you talk about argv
16:21:40 <nooga> yea
16:21:44 <jix> if you talk about functino arguments
16:21:56 <jix> def bla (foo = 10) ...
16:22:04 <jix> shorter
16:23:07 <nooga> like in php
16:23:45 <jix> oh you could write def bla foo = 10 (without ( and ) )
16:25:24 <jix> my compressor is faster if a file has more 1 bits than 0 bits ^^
16:26:13 <jix> thats one addition, one subtraction and one multiplication less per bit
16:27:32 <nooga> i never care about execution time :>
16:27:44 <jix> never?
16:27:52 <nooga> never
16:27:58 <jix> you don't care if your computer needs 20h to start up?
16:28:13 <nooga> my programs always run fast
16:28:15 <jix> or if you need 20h to compress a 1mb file
16:28:44 <jix> they run fast even if you don't care about it?
16:29:03 <nooga> in most cases
16:29:14 <jix> but not if you write a complex compressor
16:29:31 <nooga> right
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17:33:49 <Keymaker> fsck.. i slept all the time and didn't read at all..
17:34:00 <Keymaker> well, let's hope the brain works best in panic :)
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18:40:36 <kipple> anyone seen the new dr. Who show?
18:52:15 <Keymaker> nope
18:52:41 <kipple> starts here in Norway today. just wondering if it's any good
18:53:07 <Keymaker> never heard of :)
18:53:28 <Keymaker> but i guess the only way is to "see it for yourself"
18:53:45 <kipple> I have some vague memories from my childhood of the old series. I really liked it then, not that that need matter at all
19:02:11 <Keymaker> bbl.
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19:06:56 <{^Raven^}> kipple: the new series is *really* good
19:08:55 <GregorR> It's a good thing I have a business trip to Norway every week :-P
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19:28:05 <GregorR> cmeme, we meet again!
19:28:09 <GregorR> En gard!
19:28:19 * GregorR swordfights with cmeme.
19:28:24 * GregorR parries!
19:28:27 * GregorR thrusts!
19:28:30 * GregorR misses!
19:28:33 * GregorR is stabbed!!
19:28:43 <Wildhalcyon> Gregor, you appear to have stabbed yourself again
19:28:54 <GregorR> These things ...
19:28:59 * GregorR fades away ...
19:29:01 <GregorR> These things ...
19:29:07 <GregorR> happen *auggggggggh*
19:29:24 <Wildhalcyon> Wait, you just faded away!.. Did you just come back from the grave to re-utter your last lines and pass away once again?
19:29:42 <GregorR> I should have said "is fading away'
19:29:46 <Wildhalcyon> you pseudo-mortal.
19:30:14 <GregorR> And now ... to school :-P
19:31:04 <Wildhalcyon> darn
19:31:24 <Wildhalcyon> I was going to have an exciting talk about a Forth-TRANSCRIPT varient Im working on
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20:02:03 <kipple> Raven: just watched it. Can't say I was impressed :(
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20:04:24 <Keymaker> rgrh
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21:45:54 <Keymaker> 'ello
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21:46:07 <Wildhalcyon> hey!
21:46:11 <Keymaker> hi
21:46:19 <Wildhalcyon> How are you Mr Keymaker?
21:46:24 <Keymaker> i'm fine, thank you
21:46:31 <Keymaker> how are you?
21:46:51 <Wildhalcyon> Fine, I might have a new job...
21:46:56 <Keymaker> nice
21:47:21 <Keymaker> i'm working with my newest project at the moment..
21:47:38 <Wildhalcyon> brainfunk?
21:47:54 <Keymaker> nope
21:47:57 <Keymaker> but brainfuck related
21:48:06 <Wildhalcyon> ok, well there we go
21:48:11 <Keymaker> :p
21:48:20 <Keymaker> this project will take a lot time
21:48:25 <Keymaker> but it won't be worth it :)
21:48:30 <Keymaker> hah
21:48:51 <Wildhalcyon> I know how that feels..
21:48:55 <Keymaker> luckily the next term in school is the next i have ever had, only 15 hours school a week
21:49:03 <Keymaker> so, i have plenty of timeeeee
21:49:11 <Wildhalcyon> Yay!
21:49:22 <Keymaker> :) yeah, i've waited this for a long time..
21:50:56 <Wildhalcyon> Im working on turing interactive TRANSCRIPT syntax such as "if all lights are red then the cup contains water" into meaningful programming syntax. Not to mention "There are lots of lights"
21:51:45 <Keymaker> cool
21:52:08 <Keymaker> probably quite difficult job, i assume..
21:52:32 <Wildhalcyon> Well, thinking it all up and writing it down is EASY. It's when I actually move towards writing an implementation that will be the challenge
21:53:12 <Keymaker> hehe
21:53:20 <Keymaker> but there's jix ;)
21:54:40 <Wildhalcyon> Esolang Design Goal: develop an esolang that will be difficult for Jix to implement.
21:54:55 <Keymaker> hehe
21:55:24 <Wildhalcyon> The only thing I can think of is using a foreign language. He's amazingly good at what he does
21:55:39 <Keymaker> yeah, i've noticed that too
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21:57:24 <Wildhalcyon> Im working on the mechanics for the word "lots" right now. It roughly means "uncountable" - so if you say "There are lots of lights" there are more than enough for any task you could possibly use them for. Think of "lots" as aleph-null
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22:33:47 <{^Raven^}> Wildhalcyon: The one I'm working on should be difficult for jix to implement
22:34:38 <{^Raven^}> cat (beta) is 63s73x5 or 806s30x5 or ...
22:35:24 <Wildhalcyon> I dont understand that...
22:35:34 <Wildhalcyon> The letters with the numbers with the confusion
22:35:46 <Keymaker> that is probably code
22:35:55 <Keymaker> ..but no idea what it does
22:35:58 <Wildhalcyon> Well, yeah, but I dont understand it
22:36:12 <{^Raven^}> it's a cat program
22:36:19 <{^Raven^}> echo all input to output
22:36:27 <Keymaker> yes
22:37:51 <{^Raven^}> echo chars 0 to 255 to output is 8357s19x6
22:44:14 <Keymaker> i'll just wait the specs.. :)
22:47:43 <Keymaker> well. good night
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