01:08:12 <calamari_> making progress on the esoshell thing.. decided to GNUize the options to a few utilities while I was at it
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01:45:49 <kipple> good to hear you're making progress :)
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08:16:09 * calamari just ran a program from the wiki! :)
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09:15:44 <calamari> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/
09:16:29 <calamari> or http://kidsquid.com/EsoShell .. guess I should set up http://esoshell.kidsquid.com
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23:00:11 <calamari> HTTP-POST in Java refuses to work for me... crazy
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23:44:41 <Aardwolf> When can you say that a programming language has only 2 symbols? I mean C++ code is also only 0's and 1's!
23:46:03 <calamari> Aardwolf: C++ can also use A-Z, a-z, punctuation, etc.. not just 0 and 1 :)
23:46:44 <grim_> but it makes more sense to interpret those 1s and 0s as higher-level code symbols
23:47:57 <grim_> you could just as well interpret C++ code as decimal, does that mean it has 9 symbols?
23:48:09 <Aardwolf> calamari, I mean, if you store C++ code on the harddisk, no matter how many A's and Z's and std::vectors it contains, it'll be 0's and 1's on the disk
23:49:10 <Aardwolf> There's for example this language (forgot which one) with 2 commands, one that spins a wheel of commands, the other to execute the selected command of the wheel. How many commands does this language have? The amount of commands on the wheel, or 2?
23:50:05 <grim_> it's called SPIN isn't it?
23:51:22 <Aardwolf> hmm no results for spin on esolang
23:52:36 <grim_> mm, whirl would be it
23:53:15 <Aardwolf> well so does it have 2 commands or is it a sort of cheating :)
23:53:31 <Aardwolf> is there actually a way defined to tell how much commands a language has :D
23:54:10 <grim_> It does have 2 commands... in a sense.
23:56:12 <grim_> but I don't suppose there is a way of determining how many "true commands" a language has, which seems to be what you're driving at
23:56:44 <calamari> Aardwolf: spinning commands like that is cheating, imo
23:56:51 <wildhalcyon> C++ has to have more than 2 commands, because the 0's and 1's are not interpreted independently, same with Whirl, imo.
23:57:13 <Aardwolf> Yeah that's probably the best way to look at it
23:57:18 <calamari> Aardwolf: cpu's don't "spin".. opcodes always do the same thing, given the same data (or if no data), afaik
23:57:30 <grim_> the fact that modern computing devices store C++ program as a series of 1s and 0s on a magnetic storage medium is a red herring ;)
23:57:55 <Aardwolf> Someone should make a real ternary computer :)
23:58:22 <calamari> Aardwolf: I've gotten down to 4 symbols without spinning
23:58:23 <wildhalcyon> Im working on a character code for one, and a not-so-eso programming language too
23:58:34 <grim_> spinning is a bit novel, but I thought OISCs ran on a similar principle
23:58:44 <calamari> Aardwolf: it should be possible to get three
23:58:54 <grim_> basically a look-up table of the real instructions
23:59:28 <calamari> grim_: nope.. oisc is one instruction, always the same
23:59:37 <Aardwolf> calamari, you mean the BF_instruction_minimalization? :)
23:59:42 * grim_ assumed I was wrong