00:01:21 uh and it doesn't work 00:02:35 mv * #math ^^ 00:02:46 oh, partition counting 00:02:52 jap 00:07:22 i don't see why my algorithm doesn't work 00:07:27 it work's with paper an pencil 00:10:49 hmm, what does it do? 00:14:45 hum 00:15:18 i have a function helper(n,k) that prints all partitions of n using number <=k 00:15:25 but it doesn't work 00:15:31 and i'm telling what i've done in ruby 00:15:45 i did something different on paper.. 00:16:53 hmm, it's easier to calculate the partitions of n that use exactly k numbers. 00:17:20 yes 00:17:20 calculate -> count. 00:17:32 found that on mathworld 00:17:43 hm 00:18:33 I got some answers on algorithms for calculating p(n) in sci.math some time ago... 00:19:30 the triangle of P(n,k) (partition of n with k numbers) looks like: go up 2 + go up 2 go left 1 00:19:37 but it only looks so 00:19:56 i should sleep 00:20:04 P(n,k) = P(n-1,k-1)+P(n-k,k) 00:20:06 :) 00:20:31 i know 00:20:35 the first gives the number of partitions that have a 1, the second one those that don't. 00:20:41 I loved it Ö= 00:20:43 :) 00:21:10 german keyboard layout? 00:21:20 I'm not at home ;) 00:21:24 ah 00:23:44 Oooh, Ö is an excellent one-character smiley 8-D 00:24:25 ü 00:24:29 ë 00:24:33 hehe 00:24:37 ÿ 00:25:01 i can write a ÿ with only 3 keypresses 00:26:47 hmm. I don't know if this X server config has a compose key. 00:34:34 oh, I was wrong; my post was about Landau's function g, not about the number of partitions 00:34:50 http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/68a794c6d85c11d8/ 00:35:58 I just wrote this ÿ with no keypresses. 00:36:06 GregorR: copy and paste? 00:36:11 Yup :P 00:36:14 ctrl-c ctrl-p? 00:36:15 4 00:36:20 Of course not! 00:36:21 I'm insulted! 00:36:25 ok 00:36:27 X11 left-middle 00:36:28 mouse 00:36:38 ^_^ 00:36:44 but that are 2 mouse clicks 00:36:48 1 for selecting 1 for pasting 00:36:50 easy with unicharmap 00:36:55 Note that I was careful to say "keypresses" :) 00:40:23 ok I have three solutions for the #math problem ... that's all with n<1000000. 00:40:26 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 02:06:23 * {^Raven^} is a smiley ??? 02:06:34 yes 02:06:44 <{^Raven^}> intwiggling 02:07:13 it has everything, a left face side, {, a left eye, ^, a weird looking nose, Raven, a right eye, ^, and a right face side, } 02:07:26 ^o^ 02:07:37 <{^Raven^}> erm... they're my wings... 02:08:14 <{^Raven^}> lol 02:08:39 hehe. 02:16:37 good night 02:16:40 -!- int-e has quit ("Client exiting"). 02:35:20 taxonomy of smileys? 02:49:28 -!- int-e has joined. 02:49:38 -!- int-e has left (?). 03:04:12 -!- GregorR has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]"). 04:34:11 -!- calamari has joined. 04:46:36 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection reset by peer). 05:59:05 -!- cmeme has joined. 05:59:24 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:00:05 -!- cmeme has joined. 06:50:46 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:52:07 -!- calamari has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:21 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:15:48 -!- CXI has joined. 09:45:26 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:41:02 -!- jix has joined. 13:57:15 -!- int-e has joined. 14:14:58 -!- GregorR has joined. 15:02:17 -!- CXI has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault."). 15:03:44 -!- CXI has joined. 18:02:12 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 18:04:18 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:04:49 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 18:06:08 Hola! 18:06:13 hola 18:06:50 Hows it going? 18:08:48 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:08:58 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 18:09:06 Bah! I hate my ISP 18:11:03 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:14:17 -!- CXII has joined. 18:15:54 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:30:54 -!- WildHalcyon has joined. 18:31:07 Maybe this time I'll actually *stay on* 18:33:00 probably not. 18:33:22 So far. I switched clients, that might have helped too 18:35:50 Lament, are you an esolang developer? 18:36:52 I am a professional esolang senior architect 18:37:01 I work for NASA developing esolangs 18:37:35 Glad to hear it. I bet NASA pays eso-dev senior architects pretty handsomely 18:40:14 there's also the fame 18:40:24 the Shuttle computers run software written in my esoteric languages. 18:40:59 they used Brainfuck before, but they needed something more specific 18:41:48 Yeah, I heard they're trying to blame BF for the tiles breaking off. 18:42:31 -!- Gs30ng has joined. 18:42:47 a stupid claim. Brainfuck never fails. 18:43:36 That's what I thought. You know how it is with those gov't types though.. always wanting to point the finger 18:44:39 lol 18:46:14 INTERCAL knows all about DC esolang scandals though, so its not like there's anything new 18:46:15 i thought they would program in trefunge to make it easier, like calculating a coordinate to launch the ship by a code cursor 18:46:58 You'd need a pretty big code space to do that with reliable precision, wouldn't you? 18:47:37 or would i rather use brainfuck with 3d codespace? 18:48:11 like, not only <> but ^v and /\ or something 18:48:16 Has anyone written a 3D bf derivative? I didn't see anything on the wiki 18:48:19 oops my mistake 18:48:30 i meant 3d memory space, not code space 18:49:25 WildHalcyon, there's definitely one with 2D, like with <> and ^v, but i have no idea with 3D one 18:49:44 3D memory space huh? A cube instead of a tape? 18:49:51 Ive seen SNUSP, I love it too! 18:51:15 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Hcbf 18:51:26 4D brainfuck variant, i think 18:51:41 good point 18:51:58 time cube 18:52:03 I haven't had a chance to fiddle with that yet... 18:53:30 Neither have I had a chance to try out the Funge-98 TOYS fingerprint, which regardless of use, has some great names 18:54:16 (Sorry, that was OT, but I was looking at it at the time. Today, I have the attention span of a chiuahua) 18:54:53 -!- int-e has left (?). 18:57:17 Seriously though, are either of you working on any languages? 18:57:52 -!- kipple has joined. 18:58:38 well i used to design a stupid esolang when i was newbie... 18:58:47 Im just curious, not for any particular reason. 18:58:51 if you wish i'll show the spec 18:58:52 Why was it stupid? 18:58:56 yeah 18:59:01 please! 18:59:04 it is just... inefficient 18:59:32 http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/spec-en.xml 19:00:42 cool, thanks! I'll take a look at it 19:02:34 I was working on an esolang a while ago too, but decided to get back in it again recently 19:03:45 I had a bit of a stumbling block, and Im almost finished with the specification. 19:04:01 interesting 19:04:27 I remember reading about Udage.. it does look inefficient, but most esolangs are ;-) 19:04:52 i mean that i could make the spec shorter and clearer 19:04:59 I like the fact that its more of a pattern-matcher than using specific characters 19:05:31 well look 19:05:37 i got NOT and conditional jump 19:05:42 You probably could, but again - its esoteric. Shorter might not be possible, but clearer would be nice. 19:05:44 then i don't need NAND 19:06:06 i can make it with NOT and conditional jump things 19:06:25 i don't need any complicated operation like NANDN1 19:06:36 that's why i call it inefficient 19:07:30 or i could make it MORE complicated like harder than Malbolge to understand 19:08:11 Well, keep working on it. I don't like complex just for the sake of being complex. I like "quirky, see what you can do with this" 19:08:15 but currently it's not clear or complicated. like... halfway? 19:08:34 i agree to that 19:09:05 Malbolge ended up being quirky once someone figured out how to work with it, and it turns out that it does interesting things. 19:09:29 Before that, I wasn't too interested in it, because it was designed to be awful 19:10:44 i still don't even understand what it is 19:11:36 Its an evil evil language, all you really need to know unless you want to try to program in it. 19:13:39 well that's one of the core design goals in esolang 19:14:25 Perhaps. I really look at esolangs as 3 schools of languages: EVIL, novel, and jokes 19:14:39 and i also want to design a lang like that, turing-complete but takes several years to make a 'Hello World!' program 19:15:16 oh that's simple 19:15:19 Like LazyK? 19:15:30 i made a lazy k hello world 19:15:42 lazy k is very simple to programm 19:15:47 i made 99bob in lazy k too 19:15:59 I've seen the code for that... its.. er... messy 19:16:00 lol 19:16:24 WildHalcyon: it comes with a code generating tool 19:16:39 you just write a lambda term and it converts it into SKI combinators 19:16:42 oh, I wasn't aware of that. Well, that changes things 19:16:44 it's messy to do that by hand 19:16:50 it's possible (and i know how) 19:17:06 but it takes minutes for simple terms like \xyz.xzy 19:17:42 Ive wanted to design a Java2K-Befunge varient that occassionally switched the cursor orientation randomly. I guess I could just implement that with fingerprints 19:17:43 well we hardly can make an esolang code without any tools 19:18:13 but there ARE, who do that 19:18:15 :( 19:18:24 Yeah, tools are key 19:18:47 Well, only if you want to do a large project with them 19:19:36 i have an idea for a turing complete language and it will take hours to generate the first cat programm and years for the first hello world programm 19:20:17 sha1 each sizeof(sha1) bytes and do => 0 => [ 1=> ]... 19:20:18 from now on don't even mention of it for world peace 19:20:25 and execute it as BF 19:20:28 ...sha1 19:20:48 that is presented once, like MaD5 19:24:22 Im not a huge Turing-Tarpit fan 19:24:44 I am 19:24:55 BF is great, because its a fundamental esolang tool (most languages prove they're TC by using BF) 19:25:39 that makes sense 19:25:50 although i'd rather do it using TM 19:26:12 Anyhow, Gs30ng, good luck with improving Udage! Ive gotta go! 19:26:16 bbl 19:26:34 see ya 20:00:39 I think it's preferable to use BF as your intermediary rather than a true TM because BF is very VERY easy to read and parse. 20:40:30 that opens an interesting question... what TC language is the easiest to parse? 20:41:11 (easiest is a matter of intuition) 20:42:46 in Brainfuck the forward/backward loop matching imposes an inherent difficulty 20:42:59 perhaps OISC is simpler than BF 20:45:21 what TC language is the easiest to parse... perhaps non-esoteric lang is 20:45:32 but probably turing tarpit is 21:02:24 pgJon, of course 21:05:43 what the hell 21:05:50 pgimeno: Jot, of course 21:06:00 alternatively; 21:06:13 a variant of brainfuck: 21:06:34 instead of [ some code, N characters ] 21:06:38 write 21:06:58 [[[[[ (N times) [[[ some code 21:07:06 N opening brackets, then the code 21:07:35 first, that gets rid of an instruction, which is nice already 21:07:44 second, any string becomes a valid BF program 21:08:03 sorry, I should have said to parse and interpret 21:10:32 this depends on what language your interpreter is written in 21:10:51 lambda-calculus based languages are easy to interpret in other lambda-calculus based languages 21:12:57 easier than oisc? 21:14:14 oisc is pretty hard to interpret in lambda-calculus based languages 21:17:35 really? 21:18:07 well, I was hoping to reach some kind of an "universal" agreement on what is "easiest" in this context but it seems not to be so easy 21:18:33 Gs30ng: yes, there's usually no concept of an "array" as such 21:19:21 only functions 21:19:24 i think in this case you should make it clear like this: easiest to interpret in our brains 21:20:11 "easiest to interpret in certain of the commonly used languages" would probably be more precise 21:20:38 then it is oisc 21:20:50 um 21:21:08 in our brains, heh heh 21:21:11 but then again, what is easier: to write a conditional that tests the negativity, or to write the functions of lambda calculus? 21:22:10 it's too philosophical a question, anyway 21:23:39 no, just subjective 21:24:45 things like OOP concept is sometimes considered subjective 21:29:03 Hey, did I miss anything exciting? 21:29:42 hmm 21:30:04 lambda calculus and parsing BF... well.. thats sort of exciting 21:30:08 they seem not to be exciting 21:30:38 like, pretty important subject but i'm not *excited* :) 21:30:52 but this is also subjective 21:31:38 well, subjective is okay 21:32:06 i'd like to have a geometrical lang 21:32:07 i haven't fully used lambda 21:32:17 where you build the program out of geometric objects 21:32:26 like circle line polygon... 21:32:31 ellipse 21:32:40 sounds awesome 21:33:17 code should describe a vector image, right? 21:33:18 hmm but how could such a program work... 21:33:23 yes 21:34:23 i think the graph theory would help 21:35:03 but actually there are already some langs with it 21:35:13 polygons are instructions... 21:35:13 Ive seen some flow chart languages 21:35:21 lines are code-flow 21:35:38 WildHalcyon: yes but they arn't 100% of simple geometric objects 21:35:52 Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuse RXML :P 21:35:56 circles could be used as control structures 21:36:02 That's true, they're not 21:36:03 GregorR: problem 21:36:11 RXML doesn't support vector images 21:36:11 RXML would be an answer 21:36:13 Way too difficult to parse shapes? 21:36:16 really? 21:36:26 SVG would be good. 21:36:33 noo SVG is unesoteric 21:36:42 lol 21:36:47 is it? 21:36:52 You could make a language entirely out of ellipses, where each rational a/b mapped to an instruction 21:36:54 i'm going to invent a cryptic syntax for the vector graphics... 21:37:04 lol 21:37:05 I get esoteric results when I use it, it must be esoteric 21:37:09 Jix: What about using bezier curves? 21:37:31 WildHalcyon: hmm i think circle polygon and line are enough 21:37:31 jix: what if the polygons overlap each other 21:37:52 a line is a 2-face poligon isn't it? 21:37:59 polygon even 21:38:04 Jix: use bezier curves for the lines - that way you can use lines OTHER than straight lines 21:38:22 WildHalcyon: you can connect multiple lines 21:38:31 but i need to have a direction for a line... 21:38:45 the space not should be 2 dimensional 21:38:53 Gs30ng: it should 21:38:56 Well, however you implement it. Its your language after all ;- 21:40:08 jix: then how can you connect 2 polygons which locates like, unable to be connected by straight line 21:40:40 like there are some big polygons between them 21:41:35 Gs30ng: you can chain lines 21:42:00 and using circle control structures you can implement crossings 21:42:01 that would work 21:42:34 It might be easiest to use a null polygon (0 sides) for a NOP, to implement between two connecting lines to go around corners in that case 21:42:37 * jix is _drawing_ a spec 21:42:53 lol 21:43:17 jix: what about this.. are you gonna forbid to overlap 2 polygons? 21:43:33 Gs30ng: no but the behavior is undefined 21:43:41 or overlapped polygons could be another operation 21:43:58 Gs30ng: no overlapping circles give different control structures 21:44:08 but overlapping polygons give undefined behavior 21:45:05 a code with only overlapped figures 21:45:18 would seem truly esoteric 21:46:55 away 21:49:55 lines could seem a polygon 21:51:07 like, 3 lines connects 3 triangles, seem 4 triangle 21:59:55 Gs30ng: lines polygons and circles have different colors in source-view 22:00:21 well then i should make another lang 22:00:28 i want to have it monotone 22:02:57 i have a pretty cool file format 22:03:09 i have to complete it... 22:03:54 oh i have a question 22:03:58 what's that source-view 22:04:23 you mean you're gonna make an IDE? 22:04:26 the source format is a text document 22:04:42 but i'm going to display the source code graphically 22:05:06 oh, ok. 22:07:19 I think I need to use either rtf, html, or a combined txt + bmp for my esolang. 22:07:37 WildHalcyon: make your own format 22:07:54 I will eventually. Once I work on building the IDE 22:08:06 yes making a format it's easy 22:08:17 like you're to make a bitmap format then 22:08:22 format c: bitmap 22:09:08 I'll probably include a conversion utility as well - to go between the proprietary format and the other formats 22:11:12 question: is there any conversion library for swf format? 22:11:38 possibly to postscript? 22:12:02 my file format: 22:12:03 'ST0P' => Header (thats a zero in stop) 22:12:03 'O' x r y => Circle at x/y with radius r 22:12:03 'P' points{3+} => Polygon with at least 3 points 22:12:03 'p' y z => Polygon point 22:12:03 'L' y2 x x2 y => line from x/y => x2/y2 (x/y swapped with x2/y2 is equivalent) 22:12:05 number are in base -5 using 'q' as 0, 'w' as 1, 'e' as 2, and '@' as 4. numbers end with a 'r' and use 't' as decimal point 22:12:08 'X' comment => comment (you may use characters 's' 'd' and '.' for comments) 22:12:10 'STRAT' => EOF (yes it's not a typo its STRAT instead of START) 22:12:31 the comment feature is pretty useless 22:14:39 not 'O' x y r but 'O' x r y ? 22:14:56 jap 22:15:18 its 'L' y2 x x2 y .. 22:15:37 I love the comment feature XD 22:15:44 Xsd....dsdddd...sd 22:15:48 hrhr 22:16:29 the field is from -1,-1 to 1,1 22:16:35 but numbers have no sign 22:16:38 they use base -5 22:17:19 so the order is deliberately weird, to make it esoteric, right? 22:18:03 right 22:18:12 jesus 22:18:24 i love it 22:18:42 Its hideously evil in a delightful way 22:18:54 let's try to make a circle at point -1x 1y with radius 0.5 22:19:03 Oh Lord, Christ and Savior Jesus, may your holy glory bring peace to the lives of those less fortunate, and those who write esoteric languages, amen. 22:19:36 In the beginning there was INTERCAL... 22:19:41 XD 22:19:51 And God said it was good. 22:19:52 Im not used to using negative bases (Ive heard of them, but.. never tried implementing them) 22:20:35 he did? I thought after INTERCAZL, he had a stiff drink and took 2 1/2 months off and thats why we celebrate summer vacation? 22:20:40 *INTERCAL 22:21:12 grr negative bases are evil 22:21:23 You could always use the golden ratio base 22:21:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_base 22:21:41 yeah but that's not as safe as base -5 22:22:07 hm.. safe, yeah that's important if your language ever ends up on the shuttle like lament's 22:23:38 afk 22:25:04 NASA guys are calling him by period to ask some questions about the spaceship air supplying system written in bf 22:26:40 a ']' is missing in the code so air supplying works for only few seconds 22:27:37 jix wrapped the whole code with [] and it appeared to work as well 22:27:44 Hmmm, they should get that fixed. Any certified BF.NET techs here? 22:28:31 but now the system resets itself continuously 22:29:02 *checking door panels* *doors open* *doors close (well after the astronauts have been flung into space)* *reactivating oxygen* 22:29:23 lol 22:29:41 And two loud POPs are (not) heard as the astronauts explode. 22:29:49 Then they're mad at jix, what a tragedy! 22:29:49 lol 22:30:03 I hope he's not fired 22:30:29 They can't fire him because they never hired him 22:31:29 as a professional esolang developer, jix was kidnapped by nasa guys and forced to design the system in bf 22:31:57 ...! Esolang slavery! 22:32:09 * Gs30ng pays one minute's silent tribute 22:34:55 poor Jix 22:35:23 actually in 90's, the system was written in Malbolge, designed by GregorR 22:35:44 (The system that enslaved jix that is :P) 22:35:52 I call it MalSlave. 22:37:53 GregorR wrote it in 3 minutes 27 seconds, and distributed it in open source, nasa took it 22:38:40 after several years nasa needed some new code for new modules, however no one but jix understood the code 22:38:54 that's why he've been kidnapped 22:39:06 Instead of me for some inexplicable reason :P 22:39:53 death is inexplicable, right 22:40:05 uh, aren't you dead GregorR? 22:40:23 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregorR-OHNOAZOM. 22:40:34 -!- GregorR-OHNOAZOM has changed nick to ItsAZombie. 22:40:44 Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins... 22:41:29 -!- ItsAZombie has changed nick to GregorR. 22:42:03 Brains huh? What part? 22:42:26 I've got a few lobes, a medulla, and then there's my spinal cord. 22:45:08 they learned to not kidnap crazy people MUHUAHAHAHAHAHAH! 22:45:25 that'll teach them 22:45:27 but they are crazy 22:45:44 mounting Sauerbraten.dmg 22:46:01 sauerbraten has to be a cool game 22:46:14 what does dmg stands for 22:46:19 it's written by wouter 22:46:23 s/stands/stand 22:46:25 Disk iMaGe 22:46:29 aha 22:46:39 every 2nd osx software comes as dmg 22:46:57 sauerbraten is from wouter (the one who wrote false) 22:47:17 http://sauerbraten.org/ 22:47:21 one who wrote false wrote a game? 22:47:25 Wouter is legendary 22:47:27 yes 22:47:34 WildHalcyon: i know someone who knows wouter 22:47:45 OMG 22:48:13 i don't even want to contact anyone who knows who knows wouter 22:48:18 he's called Tim Schröder 22:48:19 i don't wanna be kidnapped 22:48:23 I know someone who knows someone who knows wouter... err.. thats you, btw 22:48:49 WildHalcyon: i talk about real-life knowing 22:49:10 hmm.. yeah, thats different I guess 22:49:28 wouter doesn't sound like an actual person... like, consist with only source code 22:49:38 both wouter and tim worked at crytek 22:49:48 Gs30ng: it's his realname 22:49:49 Wouter van Oortmerssen 22:50:13 that lab researches how to cry? 22:50:20 what am i talking about 22:50:37 * Gs30ng reboots his brain 22:51:09 He should have wrote sauerbraten in False 22:51:17 lol 22:51:50 Wouter van Oortmerssen. sounds really typical guru name. like Guido van Rossum or something 22:52:53 if by guru you mean dutch, then yeah ;) 22:53:38 Oh, is it dutch? not german or something? 22:53:45 dutch 22:53:50 but i'm german 22:54:05 van = dutch, von = german 22:54:38 yes but von * in german isn't as common as van in dutch 22:54:43 afaik 22:55:26 doesn't von in german usually indicate nobility or something (at least in the past)? 22:55:37 now i see a few dutch person in computer science 22:55:43 yes 22:55:57 but haven't seen any Korean in this field 22:57:20 Ive known a few korean cs majors back in school 22:57:48 maybe they're all kidnapped by nasa 22:58:35 I was kidnapped by NASA, but they let me go because I was useless 22:58:49 who wasn't kidnapped by NASA 22:58:54 they only need some esoteric programmers 22:59:38