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00:35:14 <kipple> Gregor: there are now 2 articles in the OO category :)
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00:42:33 * calamari notes that the Monobook "wikipedia" skin looks a lot better than 'classic' :)
00:43:21 <kipple> IMHO it should be the standard skin as it is the one used by wikipedia, and therefore probably most familiar to users
00:44:25 <calamari> graue: is there a special page like Special:WantedPages that'll show even single links to pages that haven't been made yet?
00:45:25 <calamari> also, I'm wondering why there is both a Category:languages page and language_list.. can the language_list page go away?
00:46:33 <kipple> in theory. but not as long as categorization is not complete
00:47:22 <kipple> would be nice to have some weapons of mass-categorization...
00:48:32 <calamari> that shouldn't be hard to do.. I can just click each page and add [[Category:Languages]]
00:51:01 <calamari> actually, what would be better is to leave both pages for now, and only delete items off the language list when a real categorization is complete
00:51:37 <calamari> then the language_list will finally be empty
00:52:38 <graue> the Language list needs to stay
00:53:44 <kipple> the language list is nice because it can contain languages that doesn't have an article yet
00:55:16 <calamari> wish there was an automatic way to have it be added to the language list.. I've created a few language articles and never updated the list
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01:21:47 <GregorR> I updated the HQ9++ page and the main page (hope nobody minds 8-D)
01:23:07 <kipple> why should anybody mind? that is the purpose of a wiki after all
01:50:21 <calamari> GregorR: I've edited your edit :)
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02:02:38 <kipple> hmm. should TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL be categorized as nondeterministic?
02:08:43 <kipple> on second thought, I think not
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12:22:58 <{^Raven^}> have had some really good ideas for BFBASIC but don't have the necessary Java skill to program em :(
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15:59:04 <Keymaker> raven: who says it must be done in java?
16:02:52 <{^Raven^}> Keymaker: BFBASIC is written in Java so alterations to it need to be in Java too
16:03:44 <Keymaker> what kind of features they are?
16:04:33 <{^Raven^}> so far I have SELECT CASE/WHEN/OTHERWISE/END SELECT worked out
16:04:54 <lindi-> {^Raven^}: any url to BFBASIC sources?
16:05:02 <{^Raven^}> CASE is nestable. FOR ... STEP for +ve/-ve steps
16:05:23 <{^Raven^}> Code libraries and source split over multiple files
16:05:57 <{^Raven^}> and string support which is so badly needed
16:07:25 <{^Raven^}> lindi-: http://sourceforge.net/projects/brainfuck/ the source is in the CVS
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16:08:02 <lindi-> i tried http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/compilers/bfbasic/bfbasic.zip -- that is older?
16:08:36 <{^Raven^}> Calamari's page ^^ has 1.30 and 1.40 is on sourceforge
16:09:17 <{^Raven^}> I just think that it sucks that I could add all these if it was in a language I was more familiar with
16:10:10 <{^Raven^}> named functions and procedures will be able to have parameters too ;)
16:10:38 <{^Raven^}> it will mean that libraries of useful BFBASIC routines could be written and INCLUDEd in user code
16:58:10 <Keymaker> that is, i can't find how you can check if file exists (in python)
16:59:15 <Keymaker> as well, i'm hungry and thirsty
17:00:04 <{^Raven^}> keymaker: http://diveintopython.org/file_handling/ seems to have some info on that
17:01:47 <malaprop> should catch IOError and make sure that the errno is 2 just to be specific
17:02:15 <malaprop> an attribute of the exception object
17:02:38 <malaprop> pull up the interpreter and do 'open("foo")' so you can see the exact exception that's thrown, then catch only that.
17:07:17 <malaprop> You just don't want to accidentally catch other exceptions is all.
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18:53:17 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/unnecessary.html
19:10:47 <malaprop> Hm, shouldn't the source files exist but be 0b?
19:15:21 <GregorR> No, that would make the source file necessary.
19:16:15 <{^Raven^}> But necessary[1] is a different language. [1] Hypothetical sister language to unnecessary
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19:56:47 <jix> i have an idea for a graphical (esoteric.. but writeable) language
19:57:50 <jix> you arrange your program using elements and conect them using.. wires and it has anonymous functions .. and there are no function names.. just symbols
20:06:51 <Keymaker> wow wow wow wow awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:07:17 <Keymaker> a game i didn't back then couldn't finish or play properly when i had crappy computer, and then forgot it for years,
20:07:32 <Keymaker> and now when reading jurassic park books thought i could try again,
20:07:41 <malaprop> jix: Sounds neat, and a lot like my mental picture of programming.
20:07:44 <Keymaker> seems to be editable with cool editors that fnas have made
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20:09:34 <lament> jix: aardappel has written a bunch of those, look on his page
20:09:41 <lament> well, they do have names iirc
20:10:33 <lament> I believe i had made a language very similar to Keymaker's, year ago
20:11:33 <malaprop> lament: where is aardappel's page?
20:11:34 <lament> The coolest part about ZEN was that ZEN programs execute themselves
20:11:51 <lament> http://wouter.fov120.com/
20:12:02 <lament> his languages are at http://wouter.fov120.com/proglang/index.html
20:12:25 <jix> lament: i know aardappel and i my brother even knows someone who knows the author of aardappel but my language is different (i think so)
20:12:40 <lament> jix: not the language aardappel, the person aardappel
20:12:54 <lament> jix: who is probably the person your brother knows :)
20:13:18 <jix> i must miss read that..
20:13:34 <lament> he's like, the saint and the founding father of esoteric languages
20:13:38 <lament> and cpressey is his prophet
20:13:43 <lament> he also used to come here
20:13:46 <jix> the language and the person
20:13:48 <CXI> oh, the cube guy
20:13:54 <jix> Wouter van Oortmerssen aka Aardappel
20:13:59 <jix> Languages: Aardappel, Bla, E, Fals....
20:14:17 <CXI> he wrote False too?
20:14:36 <CXI> that's awesome
20:14:55 <jix> yes.. i wouldn't know that my brother knows... if he didn't come in atm i was viewing the false page
20:15:01 <lament> CXI: yeah, he's a genius
20:15:46 <lament> but usually people just talk about Cube to point that out; not his programming languages
20:16:11 <CXI> Cube's pretty cool, but I wouldn't call it genius material
20:16:59 <lament> well, whom else do you know who wrote something of that scope by himself?
20:17:42 <CXI> what, a fps?
20:17:52 <lament> not necessarily an fps
20:20:29 <malaprop> Cube looks very neat. Wish I wasn't at work, heh.
20:20:38 <CXI> it's pretty cool
20:20:47 <CXI> unfortunately the physics engine is basically a giant hack :D
20:21:17 <CXI> a friend and I had a look at using it for an fps
20:21:29 <CXI> but it got pretty difficult when we realised how much of the physics code we'd need to rewrite
20:23:02 <CXI> it was pretty impressive nonetheless
20:23:30 <malaprop> Why was the physics engine unsuitable for your needs?
20:24:13 <CXI> we wanted to do more interesting things with it... object motion, friction against different surfaces, variable gravity
20:25:29 <CXI> the actual engine is sorta... add a bit here, add a bit there, multiply by a number that sounds good, add a bunch of special cases
20:25:42 <CXI> which works fine for the game itself
20:25:48 <CXI> but extending it can be hard
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20:37:47 <jix> the cd of which game?
20:37:54 <malaprop> ah, thought it was just a really short swear you censored
20:38:20 <Keymaker> and i was sure i had seen it lately
20:38:35 <Keymaker> just when i was about to play it
20:38:48 <Keymaker> and just when i found out that there are level editors and stuff for it thesedays
20:38:59 <Keymaker> just ten minutes ago i found that out
20:39:02 <CXI> I can't find a whole lot of my CDs :(
20:39:15 <Keymaker> RGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:39:15 <CXI> specifically, my Whitlams CD and my copy of Freespace
20:39:17 <CXI> download it?
20:39:38 <tokigun> CXI: how many CDs do you have? :S
20:40:06 <CXI> (be warned that number may not be exact)
20:40:37 <Keymaker> if i could download and so on, i would probably do that, since i've bought the game before
20:40:42 <malaprop> CXI: If you want another copy of Freespace, ask me in a couple days when I'm home and I'll see if I have it to rip for you.
20:41:21 <Keymaker> well, at least i have two of those nice game boxes featuring a velociraptor
20:41:46 <Keymaker> oh, and probably i can't find it anywhere since it's probably 5 years old game
20:41:59 * {^Raven^} only ever uses the original disk as the backup and a copy of it for playing
20:42:13 <CXI> that'd be clever, I should do that instead
20:42:17 <malaprop> 14:43:03 * {^Raven^} only ever uses the original disk as the backup and a copy
20:42:51 <CXI> there's this pattern
20:43:00 <CXI> every time I delete a game off my hard drive the original CD goes missing
20:43:24 <{^Raven^}> most publishers offer replacement CDs for a small charge
20:44:51 <Keymaker> i'm so annoyed. i'll go hunting the game tomorrow. let's hope some small pc store still has copy (for extra low price)
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