00:14:04 kipple: i'm done! 00:14:30 wow 00:15:09 that's nice 00:15:24 http://rafb.net/paste/results/DQn85Z68.html 00:15:52 mmh coool 00:17:11 it needs 4secs on my 1ghz ppc machine.. ^^ 00:18:33 that is really neat program 00:18:40 and quite fast as well 00:19:06 quite fast? 00:19:25 yeah 00:21:19 10 secs on my 187MHz machine :) 00:22:07 why does xchat-aqua need 50% cpu ? 00:23:01 ok now write a kipple compiler 00:23:18 in kipple :) 00:23:27 that would be great :) 00:23:44 kipple2c in kipple ? 00:23:55 that's nice idea 00:23:56 can I put prime.k on the Kipple homepage? 00:24:09 kipple: yes 00:24:28 who should I credit? 00:24:31 jix? 00:24:33 Jannis Harder 00:25:24 k 00:27:45 wow, the Kipple home page gets updated more and more frequently.... 00:28:16 that's good 00:33:53 hmm 00:33:59 i'm too tired 00:34:05 hardly can stay awake 00:34:10 good nite 00:34:21 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 00:34:21 good nite 00:37:50 kipple: an updated version: http://rafb.net/paste/results/by15VL64.html 00:38:05 what's the diff? 00:38:30 the \n are at the right position 00:38:44 i'm not using the input stack as a temp stack 00:41:39 it is currently the second largest kipple program in existence (that I know about) 00:56:35 ... 00:57:21 --- 00:57:37 ___ 00:58:18 btw, there is NOTHING wrong with using the input stack as a temp stack! 00:58:44 oh. 00:58:46 ok.. 01:00:02 just be aware that it may contain data you have not put there.. 01:05:26 good night 01:05:40 nite 01:06:07 -!- jix has quit ("Banned from network"). 01:29:18 -!- calamari has joined. 01:29:26 re's 01:39:03 nite all 01:39:30 cya pgimeno 01:48:29 -!- wooby has quit. 01:49:33 -!- wooby has joined. 01:51:06 think I need directories, or will one be enough? 01:54:11 that will quickly become crowded I think 01:57:43 kipple: possibly, although there are only programs that the user creates 01:57:53 the commands are all built in 01:58:00 ah, yes 01:58:20 I'll be getting rid of a few of those (who needs touch?) :) 02:00:23 how about multiple processes.. needed? 02:03:31 one editor and one command line would be nice, of course 02:05:45 I haven't really considered having multiple windows.. interesting 02:06:37 doesn't have to be windows. just two textareas you can switch between 02:06:43 Maybe a row of 4 buttons could represent a taskbar of sorts :) 02:44:44 -!- calamari has left (?). 02:56:32 -!- graue has joined. 02:56:42 'ello 02:56:50 hey 02:57:01 -!- graue has set topic: Another brainfuck site (http://www.bf-hacks.org/) is open! ~ http://chriscoyne.com/cfdg/ ~ Esolang Preservation project info: http://tinyurl.com/d3fk5 ~ Esolang wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page. 02:57:40 i am inventing a weird language 02:58:15 I've been thinking about the file storage issue, and have come to the conclusion that we should use both methods. 02:58:33 weird in what way? 02:58:38 esoteric? 02:59:03 yes 02:59:39 it's slightly Icon-inspired, and slightly AMD64 assembly-inspired, and then just weird in addition to that 02:59:57 I agree that a file hierarchy is best for preservation of multiple files. but we should also have images and maybe some other files in the wiki 03:00:19 hmm, images of what? Piet programs? Whitespace with syntax highlighting? 03:00:24 is 64 bit assembly notably different from regular? 03:00:33 it has a bunch of crazy 64- and 128-bit registers 03:00:35 things like that 03:00:58 we should be open to languages that are not text based 03:02:10 not too many of them currently, but they might come 03:02:56 do you have a code example, btw? 03:04:56 not yet 03:05:13 check the wikipedia article for Whitespace 03:05:23 it has a syntax highlighting graphic that's marked as being public domain, so we can rip it off 03:05:28 I've seen it 03:13:15 -!- graue_ has joined. 03:13:53 hello 03:34:39 -!- kipple has left (?). 04:16:57 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:18:49 -!- lament has joined. 04:25:29 -!- graue_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:54:01 -!- malaprop has quit ("quit"). 05:00:45 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 05:00:53 I made a SourceForge plugin for Giki :) 05:13:06 sourceforge has plugins? 05:14:08 It's better shown than exlained: http://giki.sourceforge.net/?title=Downloads 05:15:07 I could better word that like so: I made a GikiPlugin to render SourceForge content. 05:17:15 can you make it work with gforge and savane? 05:17:30 It could probably be slightly modified to work with any *forge.' 05:17:35 Savanna, probably not. 05:17:50 savane is also a sourceforge fork, you know 05:17:54 It is?! 05:18:05 yes 05:18:11 Oh, wait ... 05:18:18 We're thinking different softwares X-D 05:18:22 *whew* 05:18:36 I don't know what I was thinking, actually :P 05:18:42 Anyway, it could be modified to use them, sure. 05:20:29 Hmm ... 05:20:37 The Savane page says SourceForge went proprietary ... 05:20:37 ??? 05:22:43 * GregorR downloads the SF software ... 05:22:44 * GregorR reads COPYING ... 05:22:51 * GregorR sees "GNU General Public License" 05:22:53 * GregorR is confused. 05:26:12 you didn't know SourceForge went proprietary? 05:26:22 only an old version is available under the GPL 05:27:38 Well. 05:27:48 That kind of sucks. 05:27:51 * GregorR considers switching his projects to Gna. 05:31:36 they don't provide PHP, it seems 05:37:06 Never mind then :P 05:38:06 I suppose some of the code (contributed bits) must still be GPL, but since it's a web site and the GPL has no provisions for web-provided content, it's irrelevent. 05:40:36 sourceforge was developed by a company, they own it, and they are now trying to sell the "enterprise edition" of it to other companies for obscene amounts of money 05:40:57 sourceforge.net is an ad for their software 05:41:10 *sigh* 05:41:47 I am now deeply saddened 05:42:33 oh well 05:42:57 no company is going to buy sourceforge enterprise edition because of your site, so don't worry about it 05:44:39 X-D 05:44:55 Speaking of my site ... 05:45:16 Just released Giki 1.2, which most importantly has a separate download with a bunch of plugins :) 05:46:35 do you lock the flat files so two edits at the same time won't clobber a page? 05:46:53 No, but that could be implemented by a plugin :) 05:48:07 MediaWiki has an in the edit form, and when you post, it checks that against the hash of the latest revision 05:48:11 if they don't match, it doesn't post it 05:48:16 you should do something like that 05:49:08 Oooh, that's a good method ... 05:49:12 Very easy to implement. 05:49:44 However, it does have a full history, so even if you do lose something, you don't lose anything *shrugs* 05:58:41 -!- wooby has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:26:28 moin 10:27:38 actually it's really late night. 10:28:05 who was that who invented time zones? 10:28:23 some communist 10:28:34 heh 10:28:54 graue: around? 10:34:52 I think that use of WikiMedia is already stablished, only doubt is about the files section 10:35:20 * GregorR-L whispers Giiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 10:35:24 :P 10:35:27 hey GregorR-L 10:35:40 SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK! 10:35:45 hehe 10:37:09 Giki got a positive review at some random guy's blog :) 10:37:32 cool, you're becoming famous :) 10:37:38 Heheh 10:38:13 Anyway, now I'm going to go be week and sleep. 10:38:16 See you later. 10:38:26 nite 10:38:28 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 11:30:52 -!- jix has joined. 11:31:18 moin 11:31:20 moin jix 12:33:42 -!- J|x has joined. 12:45:43 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:45:46 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 14:33:39 -!- clog has joined. 14:33:39 -!- clog has joined. 14:41:26 graue: is svn operational in he files archive now? can I test it? 17:02:32 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:03:24 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:03:42 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:03:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:04:27 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:03:13 -!- calamari has joined. 18:03:22 hi 18:03:25 hi 18:13:46 hey 18:18:32 hello 18:18:55 (my, what an interesting conversation here today ;) 18:24:08 -!- slav13651 has joined. 18:24:08 -!- graue has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:24:08 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:24:08 -!- slav13651 has changed nick to graue. 18:24:30 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:24:43 graue: I'd like to see a final decision about files today 18:24:43 svn is ok to me, the only point being that people have to email the files to upload to an editor 18:24:43 I think we should go with both. i.e. that some files should be allowed in the wiki 18:24:58 one thing after the other :) 18:25:14 maybe we could write a nice web-interface that allows people to submit a file to an editor 18:25:51 that'd be a good idea 18:26:36 should that be in the wiki, or on a separate page? 18:26:57 hmm. I guess we should avoid modifications to the wiki software 18:27:17 I don't mind, but probably the wiki will not be able to cope with that by default, and yes, we should avoid modifications 18:27:45 note that it's not important if that page is not preserved 18:27:58 what do you mean? 18:28:13 the page with the upload interface, I mean 18:28:23 ah yes. I agre 18:28:24 e 18:28:27 when (if) the site moves to a mirror, the setup will probably change 18:28:39 true 18:29:58 so, the files section is good for keeping language distributions etc. 18:31:17 the wiki images section would have a different purpose 18:31:40 in mediawiki images and other files are treated as the same 18:32:13 I know, but uploading e.g. zipped files to the wiki is not a good idea 18:32:32 well, not if we have a separate archive 18:32:42 then they should go there 18:34:25 the question is: given the additional nuisance of backing up a separate directory just for images, does it pay off? 18:34:49 well, I think we should have images in the Wiki! 18:35:17 it could be zipped together with the db-dump 18:35:30 or even better: located in the files archive 18:35:59 I don't think that's possible 18:36:14 why? because of svn? 18:36:26 yes 18:36:54 and because it would be a pain to reconstruct 18:37:11 well, the cronjob that does the database dump could simply include the images in the zip/tar 18:37:50 since we will have most files in the svn it will probably not be very large 18:38:24 there's a possibility to keep them in the svn archive, depending on how WikiMedia deals with images; if it can link the image to an URL which is external to the wiki, it could work 18:38:52 I don't think it can 18:38:59 but I might be wrong 18:40:23 this setup seems not so simple as it looked at first sight huh? 18:40:40 huh? what's the problem? 18:41:16 I mean the MediaWiki + svn etc. 18:42:02 It's just two different things to backup. I don't see the problem. 18:42:12 we're approaching three 18:42:30 svn up + db backup + wiki images 18:42:39 as I said: just include the images in the db backup 18:42:57 anyway, one more zip to download is not a problem either IMHO 18:44:15 actually you CAN use external images in the wiki. 18:44:36 but I think it's not a good idead 18:44:55 why not? 18:45:27 because then people will probably use images on OTHER servers, rather than bothering with contacting an editor 18:47:16 I'm worried about having many potential causes of failure 18:47:43 well, this is used in the wikipedia, and it seems to work fine 18:48:08 images linked from everywhere is REALLY a pain to back up 18:48:52 yeah 18:48:58 external images would be nasty 18:49:24 I actually wanted them to only point to the files section with no other possibility 18:49:48 maybe replacing the images directory of the wiki with a link to the files working dir could work 18:49:56 (provided there's nothing else in there) 18:50:41 but the images doesn't really belong together with the other files. They should be tied to articles 18:51:05 I mean something like: files/wiki_images/* 18:51:32 that's just the placeholder 18:51:36 it's already separate anyway 18:52:03 well, if svn doesn't have a problem with the wiki writing into the file tree, then that would work 18:52:37 but you said earlier that that wouldn't work (or did I misunderstand?) 18:52:45 hm, you haven't worked much with svn, right? 18:52:52 right 18:53:15 nothing to be precise 18:53:35 I didn't think of the possibility of linking the images/ dir of the wiki previously 18:53:44 ah 18:54:03 but if that can work then I think it's the best solution 18:54:15 well, AFAIK the images dir can be anywhere on the filesystem as far as the Wiki is concerned, so you don't even need to link 18:54:29 cool 18:54:54 but the upload can't be through the wiki interface 18:55:04 what? 18:55:09 then what's the point? 18:55:40 the point is to handle all downloads uniformly (and all uploads too) 18:55:46 downloads = backups 18:56:05 well, I still don't see why it is a problem backing up the image dir 18:56:44 anyway, if you don't upload the images through the wiki, then you would be back to external links 18:57:05 unless you write a hack to modify the db when you add images.... 18:57:30 oh, do they need to be uploaded through the interface in order to be available? 18:57:57 seems that I was thinking in a too HTMLish way 18:58:49 and when you upload them through the wiki the gets put in a human-unfriendly hierarchy 18:59:38 in that case it won't work anyway 19:00:19 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_file_usage#Uploaded_media_files 19:00:25 I don't say it's a problem to back up yet another dir by itself, just that it's another possible point of failure and I don't like that 19:01:21 hum, and how's the upload dir related to the images dir? 19:01:32 they're the same 19:02:13 ah ok 19:03:25 is it because of svn you can't have uploads thorugh the wiki into the files archive? 19:03:44 it absolutely can't 19:03:59 the svn filesystem is opaque 19:04:17 can't you make it ignore one of the sub dirs? 19:04:28 i.e. where the wiki files go 19:04:36 it's working copies (wc's) the ones which contain the original files 19:05:24 there's one possibility, namely manually commit the files into the archive, but that requires graue keeping the repository up-to-date wrt the wiki 19:05:42 please no! 19:06:02 I already thought it was a bad idea :) 19:07:40 it will ignore any subdirs in either the opaque repository or the working copy which is exposed for download, that's not a problem 19:08:17 but I don't think that helps anyway 19:43:38 i'm writing a c kipple interpreter 19:59:20 bbl 19:59:24 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 20:31:35 -!- Keymaker has joined. 20:31:48 hey 20:32:12 hi 20:32:47 hello 20:32:57 world 20:33:03 ! 20:33:11 99 bottles of beer 20:33:25 better don't paste the song lyrics :) 20:33:31 no 20:33:35 we must sing them :p 20:33:48 * pgimeno starts singing aloud 20:33:54 :) 20:34:08 * puzzlet tries to escape 20:34:13 heh 20:34:18 hehe 20:34:27 actually I don't know the music 20:34:41 i'm not sure do i know 20:34:45 will it be in midi form somewhere? 20:34:50 no idea 20:35:08 i have just some strange idea of melody and picture of pirates singing it.. 20:35:13 maybe i've gone crazy x) 20:35:23 (i mean picture in my head) 20:35:37 (as well, melody in my head) 20:36:10 maybe someone has to compose it for the first time 20:39:11 I'm now trying to decode the music from the Cakewalk version (I don't have Cakewalk but the note codes are there) 20:40:03 cool 20:47:28 -!- puzzlet has quit ("전 이만 갑니다."). 21:20:10 okay, got the speccy version ready 21:21:20 ok 21:22:09 if you have a Speccy emulator you can hear it :) 21:23:04 i don't have 21:23:33 * pgimeno ponders on writing it to WAV 21:23:43 yes 21:23:45 * pgimeno ponders on singing it to a WAV 21:23:45 good idea 21:23:49 d'oh 21:23:51 bad idea! 21:23:53 :D 21:23:55 :) 21:24:14 let's better let the speccy put the music... and nothing more 21:37:24 ever used vsound? 21:38:05 nope 21:54:52 it apparently has a bug but I've worked around it... http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/99bottles.ogg 21:54:57 don't blame me :P 21:55:17 can you make mp3 :p 21:55:28 i don't think i have any ogg player 21:55:39 hm, ok 21:55:59 thanks 21:57:52 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/99bottles.mp3 21:58:18 many players support ogg anyway 21:58:30 but using lame is illegal, you know :P 21:59:18 haha, just what i had in mind 21:59:21 the song 21:59:27 i knew the melody 21:59:42 I'm just in doubt for the last part 22:00:16 but it's almost impossible to describe on IRC 22:00:30 good.. i don't understand music :p 22:01:15 just because I don't see how syllabs(sp?) and song notes match 22:02:02 me no understand 22:02:04 :) 22:02:32 but to entirely different thing: quick, go to vote ORK in 99bob page 22:02:36 "98 bottles" has 4-5 syllabes 22:02:37 it's second on top list 22:02:40 heh 22:02:43 :) 22:03:13 * GregorR tries to decide how 98 could be 4 syllables ... 22:03:20 :) 22:03:25 nine-ty-eight = 3 syllables 22:03:31 "98" + "bottles" 22:03:36 Bottles = 2 syllables 22:03:51 then it's 4-5 :) 22:03:56 Now, then it's 5. 22:04:11 Whoops, I meant "GregorR tries to decide how 98 could be 2 syllables ..." 22:04:20 :) 22:04:30 you may force nine-tyeight if sung, probably 22:04:31 Also, I meant "No, then it's 5" 22:04:35 Hmm 22:04:44 anyways, i can NOT understand why on earth somebody has voted that rexx language 22:05:03 rexx is that amiga thing? there are many amiga fans 22:05:12 dunno 22:05:17 but the language looks 22:05:20 AHAHA 22:05:20 not good at all 22:05:24 * GregorR just saw ORK on top :P 22:05:28 yeah 22:05:33 i just told about it here :) 22:06:07 the rexx version is trivial 22:06:22 rexx suxx 22:07:04 Heheh 22:07:08 :) 22:07:38 doh, the threaded C version sux 22:07:48 why creating just 10 threads if you can create 99? 22:08:37 hehe 22:10:09 int main() { for (i = 0; ; i++) printf("%d bottles of beer in me, %d bottles of beer, I take one down and drink it all down, %d bottles of beer in me!\n", i, i, i+1); } 22:10:36 :) 22:10:42 int main() { int i; for (i = 0; ; i++) printf("%d bottles of beer in me, %d bottles of beer, I take one down and drink it all down, %d bottles of beer in me!\n", i, i, i+1); } 22:10:46 Missed something :P 22:11:03 back 22:11:04 * pgimeno notes the absence of a stop condition 22:11:12 :D 22:11:20 no reason to stop ;) 22:11:26 This poor program is what we call an alcoholic. 22:11:34 heh 22:13:18 ow! Rexx has 3 votes and ork has 4 votes, both at 5.00 22:13:32 Umm ... 22:13:37 Then why is Rexx rated above ORK? 22:13:45 no idea 22:13:49 rrrrrrg 22:13:54 because it's an esovoting system 22:14:03 heh 22:14:04 I think I'm going to lower the Rexx version... 22:14:16 hey, i'll do that too! 22:14:32 That's pretty terrible :P 22:14:43 rexx:11 22:14:55 16 22:15:02 haha 22:15:05 :) 22:15:10 after all it's nothing new in my opinion 22:15:11 ORK wins! 22:15:17 indeed 22:15:30 ok i'm continue to write cipple the c kipple interpreter 22:16:18 that's nice! 22:16:27 world needs more kipple interpreters 22:17:09 and it's going to be pretty fast (i hope so) 22:17:25 that's a + (plus) 22:18:53 i'm going to parse the code into a struct-structure and than execute it.. the stack functions/structures are done.. 22:48:02 hey, what do I see! more interpreters are always welcome! 22:48:14 and Keymaker: I totally agree :D 22:48:14 hehe 22:48:30 what's kipple? 22:48:40 http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/kipple/ 22:49:10 * kipple is reading up on the log 22:49:18 but i'm going to add a special feature: live i/o 22:49:45 using the stack _ poping it is reading a char and pushing it is writing a char 22:50:00 hmm 22:50:07 heresy!!! 22:50:10 ;) 22:50:15 yes 22:50:25 not sure is that good idea, since it isn't part of the language 22:50:31 i think you should leave that out 22:50:40 but without it i can't write the number guessing game 22:50:54 well 22:51:04 since only way to do that in kipple is pseudo-random 22:51:08 the next version of the language has the ability to load customized stacks, so then you could do that 22:51:23 you can as well hit random keys to input and start the program :) 22:52:37 hm, kipple is not too bad 22:53:07 yep 22:53:07 who invented it? 22:53:12 kipple 22:53:15 :p 22:53:26 * kipple just noticed ORK ruling the 99 bottles of beer list :) 22:53:46 lament: the one that just said something about ork :) 22:54:14 hehe. maybe I should change my nick to avoid more confusion 22:54:19 no! 22:54:24 :) 22:54:53 kipple: i really like the shortcuts 22:55:02 evil and functional :) 22:55:04 shortcuts? 22:55:04 those are nice 22:55:09 a>b 0>a? << very useful 22:55:50 yeah 22:55:55 as well as a+0 22:55:56 :) 22:56:04 nooo a-0 ;) 22:56:17