00:01:36 greg: is there a not equal comparator in the mathematician? 00:01:57 or do I have to test for both greater and less? 00:03:01 Ack! It's Gregor ;) 00:03:11 And no, because that would be needless 8-D 00:03:18 heh. ok 00:03:22 You have to test for both >:) 00:03:40 How's this design: http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html 00:03:41 btw, there is a bug in the loop example in the spex 00:03:48 spec 00:03:52 Grr >_O 00:04:05 If Fibonacci says it's greater then I am to loop. 00:04:11 should be (I think) : 00:04:15 If Fibonacci says it's greater then I am to loop the number. 00:04:29 Nope. The parameter sticks. 00:04:40 Loop loops that very same function with the same parameters etc. 00:04:53 sure? didn't work for me 00:05:23 Hmm ....... just a sec, I've got to go for a few minutes, then I'll be back and we'll discuss. 00:05:48 nice page :) 00:06:00 yeah 00:06:27 I think there is some css propery you can use to make the background code be unselectable.... 00:19:33 *shrugs* 00:19:57 So does the pointer to the image show right for both of you? 00:20:12 yep 00:20:18 yes 00:20:21 Awesome. 00:20:35 Are either of you NOT using Netscape, Mozilla or Firefox? 00:20:50 Opera here 00:20:55 Awesome. 00:21:04 I'm with mozilla though 00:21:06 OK, so anyway, could you give me the code you were having looping issues with? 00:21:16 I have a konqueror handy 00:21:22 it works fine. I just had to give it the parameter 00:22:06 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 00:22:18 I don't see how that could work, given what the compiler does .... 00:22:25 Could you send me the code anyway? :-P 00:22:47 http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/beer.ork 00:23:00 w00t 2 99-bottles-o-beer 00:23:13 2? 00:23:37 has someone else made it as well? 00:24:08 GregorR-L: FYI, in Konqueror it does not work well 00:24:11 Nope 00:24:13 Blech. 00:24:27 If Bob the Big Brain says it's greater then I am to sing the song. < this ought to be able to say "I am to loop" 00:24:35 ah 00:24:56 That way, it will loop rather than recurse. 00:24:58 that's a bit unclear in the spec 00:25:07 OK, I'll see what I can do. 00:25:13 pgimeno: I have Konq here, so I'll look into it. 00:25:24 k 00:25:24 it looks like loop is a function 00:26:17 yep, that works fine 00:27:36 Congrats kipple, you are the first person to write a fully-functional program in ORK other than myself 8-D 00:27:45 :) 00:28:55 g'nite all 00:30:54 nite 00:34:53 can you do string concatenation? 00:35:09 The linguist class. 00:35:13 Didn't I doc linguist? 00:35:36 no 00:36:07 are there any examples using it? 00:36:33 found it 00:36:56 D'OH ... I forgot to upload my newer spec too X-D 00:37:16 No wait. 00:37:18 No I didn't. 00:37:19 That's there 00:38:14 sorry. was looking at a local copy :P 00:38:37 Ahhhhhhh 00:42:17 what's the difference between There is [a variable called x] and I have [a variable called x] ? 00:53:34 I have updated beer.ork so it doesn't say "1 bottles" anymore. 00:54:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 01:00:42 None, except that one may sound more PC. 01:00:50 IE: You don't usually "have" a mathematician, since that is a person. 01:01:44 ok :) 01:03:43 anyway, it was a bit painful to write in ORK :) so many words for so little ... 01:09:39 Yup 8-D 01:10:04 writing a kipple interpreter must be cruel.... 01:10:09 Oh yes. 01:10:11 Indeed it is. 01:10:17 BF was pretty damn hard. 01:10:20 And Kipple is harder. 01:10:56 Next: A C compiler! 01:10:59 J/K of course :-P 01:13:32 so how do you manage to do stacks? 01:14:11 I don't think I introduced number arrays in the spec ... 01:14:20 But their design happens to be particularly condusive to stacks. 01:14:42 BTW, writing a complete spec is for the weak. 01:15:06 source code is always a good spec :) 01:15:14 8-D 01:15:21 My BF interpreter uses number arrays. 01:17:21 hmm. is it possible to do something like this: 01:17:27 There is such a thing as a stack item. 01:17:28 A stack item has an item below which is a stack item. 01:17:28 A stack item has an item on top which is a stack item. 01:18:24 Not by the current standard, no. 01:18:34 That would get you caught in an instanciation loop (if you will) 01:18:49 ok. 01:19:55 Gah, foiled by konqueror again >_O 01:20:10 the web page? 01:20:45 hmm. it looks worse in Opera now... 01:21:06 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :'( 01:21:08 What goes wrong 01:21:09 ? 01:21:36 what's the problem (are we thinking of the same?) ? 01:22:11 Mine is just inter-page links not working. 01:22:48 I don't see any links 01:23:07 They're not on the uploaded version yet ;) 01:23:27 the "This is Gregor" text is now aligned with the bottom of the image, and a bit hard to read with the ******* below it 01:23:46 not a big deal though 01:25:14 Oh, it's actually on top of the code? 01:25:28 I did reallign it, I was hoping it wouldn't move around much :-P 01:28:05 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html < is the image stil malligned, and also, do the links work for you? 01:28:13 Just those top few links, to "2L" and "FYB" 01:28:38 how is the image supposed to be aligned? 01:28:58 It should look sort of like it's sitting above the row of *********s 01:29:07 And the label should be at the same level 01:29:16 the links works 01:29:31 w00t 01:29:40 KDE and MacOSX users don't need links *shrugs* 01:30:39 above as in on the line above or as overlapping? 01:30:48 it is overlapping 01:30:52 That's bad. 01:30:59 Hmmmmmmmmm 01:31:31 the rest of the text fits nice in firefox, but not i opera 01:31:38 Hmm. 01:31:41 Lemme test something... 01:32:01 Refresh it. 01:32:03 Any change? 01:32:14 no 01:32:20 Bah 01:32:34 sorry. that should be yes 01:32:44 now the text is screwed up in firefox as well 01:33:06 >_O 01:33:15 IE is ever worse, but who cares ;) 01:33:20 It works in my firefox >_> 01:33:32 the "< This is Gregor" as well? 01:33:38 Yup 01:33:58 I'm running 1.02 01:34:38 Hmm, I'm running 1.0 01:35:50 screenshot: http://rune.krokodille.com/gregor.jpg 01:36:27 Hmm, that's DOWN a line. 01:36:32 I was afraid it would be UP a line. 01:36:34 wait 01:36:37 That's even more strange XD 01:36:47 you fixed it while I took the shot 01:37:14 OK, wait, the current version looks right in FF? 01:37:27 not any more :) one line too low 01:37:36 >_O 01:37:44 yikes. 01:37:45 There hasn't been a change since 5 minutes ago! 01:37:59 it changes when I reload 01:38:26 it switches between two versions rather randomly 01:38:42 bug in firefox 01:39:41 Hmm 01:39:46 1.0.3 seems to work fine. 01:39:50 I'd say 1.0.2 was screwy. 01:40:04 have you tried reloading many times in a row? 01:40:17 Yup, no change. 01:40:26 ok 01:40:34 you running linux? 01:40:38 Yup :) 01:41:04 * GregorR-L is downloading Opera now. 01:41:43 * kipple is downloading FF 1.03 01:42:09 Heheh 01:43:38 same problem :( 01:43:43 must be a windows thing 01:43:45 Damn Windoze. 01:44:03 i suspect it is a rounding error... 01:44:06 This calls for extra sneaksitude. 01:44:38 a non-deterministic web design. that's esoteric :) 01:44:51 XD 01:45:01 No, that's platform compatability at its best ;) 01:45:06 Refresh, see if it changes. 01:45:53 no change 01:46:04 Bleeh 01:46:25 hey! it works in Opera now!! 01:46:35 XD 01:46:47 Even the image and its label? 01:46:50 no 01:46:55 But the text? 01:46:58 yes 01:47:00 That's what I figured. 01:47:08 I separated them to hopefully make only one fail :-P 01:48:18 what if you add an empty line below the image text. with only a   for instance 01:48:25 Heyyyyyyyyyyy 01:48:42 Just a sec, I just thought of a possibility. 01:49:23 Well .. 01:49:28 I just made it fail the same in my FFox :-P 01:51:28 Last try before I've gtg, refresh once more. 01:52:06 fine in FF, not in Opera :( 01:52:22 text is one line too high up in opera 01:53:12 OK, then I think I at least know what the browser consistancy issue is. 01:53:15 I'll work on it on the way home. 01:53:19 See you later :) 01:54:11 bye 01:54:41 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 02:22:51 If my latest iteration doesn't work, I will eat my hat. 02:22:59 Any of them, take your pick: http://www.codu.org/hats.php 02:23:10 Gotta get my laptop up and upload it first though ;) 02:32:56 I'm betting kipple is asleep X-D 02:33:25 how much do you bet? 02:33:33 -$15 02:33:38 Now you owe me $15 02:33:39 ;) 02:33:50 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html 02:33:54 So you're awake at 3:30AM? 02:34:15 yes 02:34:22 Wowsa. 02:34:26 on the way to bed npw 02:34:32 Heheh 02:35:03 damn. your hat is safe ;) 02:35:25 even works in IE! 02:36:28 anyway, good night! 02:37:22 -!- kipple has left (?). 03:22:23 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:09:22 -!- GregorR has joined. 05:18:03 -!- Keymaker has joined. 05:18:08 rgh.. 05:18:24 i saw wonderful dream where i realized how Thue works. 05:18:34 guess does it work the way i saw..? 05:18:37 rggghhhh 05:18:57 by the way; 05:19:05 interesting stuff seems to have happened 05:19:17 cool pages both gregor and pgimeno 05:19:25 as well, nice bunch of hats! 05:19:43 as well, cool to see kipple's 99bob 05:19:56 and, too bad bitxtreme was a joke 05:20:01 but still pretty cool joke 05:55:38 lol 05:55:39 Thanks 05:56:54 :) 05:57:40 I can'te believe I finally got the derned thing working in all browsers :) 05:58:41 it looks good 05:58:51 yeah, web design can be annoying 06:05:36 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 06:13:43 grgrh 06:13:55 stupid day. 06:16:11 you hear me day? you're stupdi! 06:16:13 change!! 06:16:16 :p 06:16:38 come on.. it wouldn't harm anyone to just skip one day :) 06:20:41 Hi :-P 06:20:43 But ... 06:20:48 If today wasn't skipped ... 06:20:56 There would be no 99-bottles-of-beer in ORK! 06:21:40 hmmm 06:21:43 * GregorR-L is still trying to decide whether to publish 1L 06:21:44 you are right 06:21:48 :) 06:21:54 Rather, if today WAS skipped. 06:22:15 yes. but if it would be skipped NOW.. :) 06:22:21 i would avoid annoying shoocl day 06:22:25 *schook 06:22:27 *school 06:22:32 lol 06:22:57 Ahhhhhhhhhh :-P 06:23:07 Ah yes, the miracle of time zones. 06:23:17 heh 06:23:20 yes 06:23:25 they are the most esoteric ones 06:23:33 hey 06:23:36 2d language 06:23:39 Why is it that everybody on this channel is from Western Europe except me X-D 06:23:41 where would be different timezones 06:23:56 hehe we europeans are sramtsest 06:24:02 smartest :) 06:24:05 X-D 06:24:05 anyway 06:24:15 If me not so dumb, me take offense! 06:24:23 lol 06:24:35 somehow the instructions would be executed at different times depending on their place 06:24:39 or something like that 06:24:42 lol 06:24:45 involving annoying time zones 06:24:55 And actually ofset by hours, so it could take as many as 24 hours to run a small program. 06:25:05 lol!!!! 06:25:42 not to mention making the interpreter do some stuff on background, like tirelesly computing pi to slow the work of computer.. 06:25:50 :) 06:27:45 lol 06:30:00 at least the breakfsat (that i usually skip) is good today: pizza from yesterday and some coca 06:30:06 (cola= 06:30:17 lol 06:30:22 :) 06:30:38 Hmm ... somewhere between here and befunge.org, my HTML is being weirded. 06:30:49 hehe 06:32:29 anyways; interesting job for you: write ORK interpreter in ORK :) 06:32:40 should be possible since it's turing complete ;) 06:33:00 lol 06:33:09 Also, more painful then I can possibly describe. 06:38:47 hehe 06:38:47 i should finisf my bf in bf interpreter 06:38:47 grrh 06:38:47 Heheh 06:38:47 i'm typing with one hand and continuously making stupid mistakes 06:38:47 Ah yes 06:38:47 (other hand is busy holding the pizza) 06:41:31 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html < pretty much complete now 06:42:18 looks good 06:42:41 Should I make my head bounce around in the background? 06:42:57 Ooooooooooooooooooh, I've got a better idea! 06:43:10 lol 06:44:01 the 2l hello world example can't be found 06:44:08 404 06:45:06 Whoops >_> 06:45:40 Fixed 06:46:32 ok 06:47:50 oh no 06:48:14 seems that this day is, along with all the other annoying, cleaning day x{ 06:48:37 maybe i should clean before going to school.. hmm. 06:52:20 AHAHA 06:52:22 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html 06:53:39 hehe 06:53:45 fyb instructions? 06:54:00 Limited to FB ones. 06:54:07 although 06:54:10 '*' is not bf 06:54:15 that's why i asked ;) 06:54:29 Oh, I was thinking 2L at first, then later thought BF X-D 06:54:38 :) 06:55:30 hey 06:55:31 http://puzzlet.org/tmp/braille.htm 06:55:40 Conway's Game of Life in Braille patterns 06:55:53 Wowzer 06:56:39 what are those? 06:56:43 braille patterns 06:57:11 dot characters for the blind people 06:57:33 They're usually on walls engraved into metal, so blind people can read them with their hands. 06:57:49 Actually, embossed in metal I believe would be the correct term. 06:58:05 ah i see 06:58:22 too bad i can't get the script to work 06:58:31 i'm currently in win and with FF 06:58:41 I'm using FF and it works fine for me. 06:58:44 hmm 06:58:48 dunno whats wrong 06:58:55 maybe i have some strange settings or something 06:59:00 i can't see anything 06:59:12 maybe you need to install some font? 06:59:23 Mayhaps it's a font that's (surprise!) not available on Windoze. 06:59:27 http://home.att.net/~jameskass/code2000_page.htm 07:00:33 hmm i'n not big fan of downloading things 07:00:41 X-D 07:00:45 i'll try in linux in opera today later 07:05:13 do you know this lang gregor? : 07:05:13 http://www.veling.nl/anne/lang/hello/ 07:05:32 i should write new version of my bf hello world interpreter :) 07:06:43 reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ9_Plus 07:06:55 yeah 07:07:00 only a bit easier :) 07:28:59 lol 07:29:04 That's pretty terrible :-P 07:29:16 You need to at least be able to increment the accumulator. 07:33:05 aaaaaaaaargh 07:33:09 now i gotta go 07:33:27 see you later if i make it through this day :) 07:33:32 Bye ;) 07:33:35 :) 07:33:38 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:39 -!- lament has joined. 08:03:25 -!- Xin_ has joined. 08:20:40 -!- rollman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 08:29:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 08:46:17 -!- KnX has joined. 08:46:41 -!- calamari has joined. 09:16:50 -!- KnX has quit ("Faut que je trouve un quit message ..."). 09:18:09 -!- KnX has joined. 10:28:08 haha, "It was my professional opinion that the programming world needed an esoteric object oriented programming language (other than Java of course)" 10:32:05 :) 10:38:22 * pgimeno ponders whether to write an ORK interpreter in either JavaScript, PHP or Python 10:38:38 normally i'd say python 10:38:44 but go ahead and do it in javascript :) 10:47:25 I'd better concentrate in my current projects rather than queuing another one 10:47:36 life is too short :( 10:48:17 fork(life); 10:48:33 child processes tend to be too rebel 10:49:03 This is a known bug that will be fixed in Universe 1.1 11:16:06 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:01:26 -!- hashendgame has joined. 14:15:20 -!- hashendgame has quit ("Leaving"). 14:16:46 -!- kipple has joined. 15:28:56 -!- Keymaker has joined. 15:29:03 i'm alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111 15:30:39 good thing 15:31:00 yeah 15:31:14 why am i here? 15:34:57 because you're addicted? 15:35:03 hmm 15:35:15 :) 15:35:34 repeat after me: My name is Keymaker, and I am an esoholic 15:35:40 :) 15:35:53 must.. get.. daily.. esoteric.. programs.. 15:36:30 (as well, i partly meant the question as philosophical joke :)) 15:41:48 mh, time to eat now.. 15:47:29 eat sfunge 15:56:46 what is that? 15:59:31 i don't know -- i just made it up 15:59:35 out of "funge" 16:00:10 :) 16:00:10 there seems to be some sfunge.com 16:00:14 that youres? 16:00:17 *yours 16:05:53 nope 16:06:07 ok 16:06:51 it just came out of my head when i saw esoholic thing on the irc client 16:07:02 ok 16:07:13 anyway, hi, i'm from Korea 16:07:18 hi 16:07:29 wow 16:07:40 that seems to be the most exotic location 16:07:46 where this channel is accessed 16:09:09 here, esoteric language fans are very rare 16:09:27 i believe that :) 16:10:37 well, i haven't met any others than people in internet, so maybe they aren't very popular anywhere 16:11:01 (or maybe there could be some i haven't met in internet, but doesn't interest me :p) 16:11:12 I've met at least two in real-life too. 16:11:21 cool 16:11:33 in what kind of circumstances? 16:13:08 at the 1st world esolang meeting 16:13:08 Going to same school/university, mostly. 16:13:13 ( they were three ) 16:13:44 ok. nice 16:13:49 knx; sounds interesting :) 16:14:46 good ol' EsoCon 16:15:51 there was an world esolang meeting? 16:15:54 a* 16:16:10 no idea :) 16:16:27 no but could be fun 16:16:36 yeah 16:16:49 i suggest.. London :) 16:16:51 but very hard to do when you have about 3 fan for a country 16:17:18 but think about the world.. there are at least 20! 16:17:47 20 who would come? 16:18:26 three :) 16:18:41 i'd love a program when you enter a list of people + adress , and calculates ( using internet ) , the least cost place of meeting 16:19:54 -!- Keymakere has joined. 16:20:11 what would you do when the program gives places like Bombay? 16:20:29 :) 16:20:34 travel 16:20:41 anyways, pretty good idea for a program 16:32:15 lament: When you finish an ORK interpreter, I will give you a round of applause. Just me, individually. I'm not sure if that counts as a round... But I will anyway. 16:33:37 i'll applause too 16:34:46 OK, we'll get a round of 2. 16:34:48 That's good. 16:36:09 20! is already 2432902008176640000. 16:36:35 ...........................................................? 16:36:51 probably somewhere reads '20!' 16:36:59 too lazy to check logs 16:37:04 It's only been 20 minutes! 16:37:14 :) 16:37:19 ah, the answer-delay 16:37:28 You people with your ten-second attention spans, sheesh. (Eh... was sorta-away.) 16:37:44 heh 16:38:07 -!- Keymaker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:38:20 -!- Keymakere has left (?). 16:40:05 -!- Kmkr has joined. 16:40:23 grr this connection today.. 16:40:57 lol 16:41:02 :) 16:41:11 Don't you have "Keymaker" registered? 16:41:17 how? 16:41:22 Nickserv 16:41:26 dunno what that is 16:41:33 /msg nickserv help 16:41:45 do i write that? 16:41:47 Not all network use these fancy services. :p 16:41:59 8-D 16:42:00 True 16:42:11 I personally come from ircnet, which doesn't run any. 16:42:54 Well, I was just suggesting this for Keymaker so [s]he could reclaim his/her name. 16:43:07 lol 16:43:32 i try that sometime 16:43:38 probably too hard for me 16:43:43 i can't use it probably 16:43:55 in case there is lots of stuff to adjust etc. 16:44:03 -!- Kmkr has changed nick to Keymaker. 16:44:25 i'll try it now 16:45:52 hmm seems too hard 16:49:27 the rewritten hello world interpreter is now ready 16:49:46 this time i used checking the 'h' from binary 16:50:37 (mainly because i was too lazy to make it a few inner loops to check if the data is 104. i'll do that new version sometime later.) 16:51:49 here: 16:51:51 ,[[->>[>]+<[-<]<]>>[<+>-]>[<<+>>-]>[<<<+>>>-]>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<<<<[<[-]>[-]]<[-[-[+++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.+++++++..+++.<+++++++++[>---------<-]>++.<+++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.<+++[>++++++++<-]>.+++.------.--------.[-]<++++++++++.[-]]]],] 16:52:06 unless i didn't accidentally delete any character 16:52:25 as well, the "Hello World" (with new-line) is far from perfect 16:52:53 but i find making program to output strings in bf extremely annoying 16:53:00 or well, maybe not annyoing 16:53:03 tiring 18:06:20 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 18:06:32 To pay attention in class... 18:06:37 Or not to pay attention in class... 18:06:40 That is the question. 18:06:48 For is it nobler that I should pretend to be interested, 18:06:57 when the teacher is unknowingly talking about Brainfuck, 18:07:00 :D 18:07:04 waht? :) 18:07:15 We're discussing Turing completeness :-P 18:07:19 ah 18:07:22 neat 18:07:42 seems really interesting subject 18:07:48 And the Universal Register Machine. 18:08:20 ah 18:10:23 i'll be back soon, i go to shop to by groce.. errh chocolate cookies :) 18:10:37 btw, Gregor, have you looked at HomeSpring? 18:10:56 Nope, what is it? 18:10:58 it's another lang that is insanely verbose and high level 18:11:21 though in a very different way than ORK 18:11:21 Hmm 18:11:56 Hello world: 18:11:57 Universe of marshy force. Field sense 18:11:57 shallows the hatchery saying Hello,. World!. 18:11:57 Hydro. Power spring sometimes; snowmelt 18:11:57 powers snowmelt always. 18:12:14 lol, that's pretty bizarre. 18:12:50 http://www.rpi.edu/~bindej/hs.html 18:13:16 the spec is a reather funny read :) 18:19:57 LOL 18:20:06 "In Homespring, the null program is not quine." 18:20:11 As the output to a null program X-D 18:21:23 "... This allows you to avoid worrying about program style and focus on what programming is really about, the reproductive behavior of salmon" :D 18:23:21 :-P 18:41:37 -!- Keymaker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:07:12 -!- Deanalator has joined. 19:07:52 * Deanalator dances 19:07:55 -!- Deanalator has left (?). 19:08:24 :D 19:14:07 Hmm 19:16:43 A 2D programming language where you draw a stack, then physically move data above it and drop it in :-P 19:16:59 So you have to navigate your program pointer above the stack, then do a "drop" operation 19:17:01 hi 19:17:07 Hola pgimeno 19:17:15 hola :) 19:17:17 Want to tell me where/how/when/what/why to upload my page? 19:17:31 Minus, umm why and what. 19:17:46 I'll do for you, just tell me where to get it from. 19:18:06 Okiday 19:18:57 what's wrong with where it is now? 19:18:59 Sorry, that's what I can offer... 19:19:03 (befunge.org) 19:19:31 kipple: see www.cats-eye.com 19:19:57 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 19:19:59 huh? I don't get it? 19:20:15 On one hand, I have no guaranteed uptime, etc. 19:20:25 On the other hand, I have no FTP or SFTP. 19:21:10 or see http://cats-eye.mb.ca 19:21:17 was it that one? 19:21:23 did you mean : http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/ 19:21:53 my point is: after some time, domains are abandoned... there are some cases in which the content is also lost 19:22:02 very true 19:22:05 (like Ben Olmstead's Malbolge pages) 19:22:20 fortunately they are in the Wayback Machine but how long? 19:22:23 and a big problem for us esoholics... 19:22:28 yeah 19:22:29 :) 19:22:51 I'm Pedro Gimeno and I'm esoholic 19:22:57 lol 19:22:59 which is why Wikipedia is so nice (as long as people don't delete ) 19:23:20 Wikipedia is not the place for keeping the esolangs, IMO 19:23:31 Agreed 19:23:41 agreed. but I haven't seen a good alternative 19:23:47 yeah, that's the point 19:23:54 now calamari has set up an esowiki 19:23:58 The alternative is to always host in several places. 19:24:05 ah, yes 19:24:06 yes, that's one 19:24:13 graue has also set up a wiki 19:24:23 I don't know graue 19:24:39 me neither, but he was here some weeks ago and talked about it 19:24:52 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page 19:24:56 where is the other wiki 19:25:30 the problem with these wiki's is that thay may disappear at any time (which is unlikely with wikipedia) 19:25:31 http://esowiki.kidsquid.com 19:25:58 (redirector) 19:26:04 yeah, I agree 19:26:08 that one is much better 19:26:19 but then we can't abuse it just for that reason either 19:26:29 true 19:27:12 ideally we should have some mirroring system of esolang pages. especially specifications 19:27:52 I talked to calamari on the subject, he says he plans on keeping the domain for long 19:27:59 that'd be an excellent idea 19:28:17 pgimeno: Do you want to have a copy of all the code, etc, as well? 19:28:20 yes, but we can't really know taht... 19:28:45 GregorR-L: yes, I'd like to 19:28:46 I also plan to keep my domain for life, but who can really tell... 19:28:59 * pgimeno pages fizzie 19:29:18 yeah 19:29:40 my domain is from a company, it can be moved but never deleted 19:30:22 and what if the company goes under? or changes it's name? 19:30:50 we should make our own Way Back Machine to archive esoteric pages.... 19:30:51 yeah, that may happen; in that case the links can become obsolete but the web will keep being maintained 19:31:00 I keep a copy of everything I upload 19:31:25 I am not planning to get rid of befunge.org ever, but obviously I can't know what'll happen. 19:31:50 fizzie, ok... will it always be your machine? 19:32:31 home PCs are subject to HD crashes, for example 19:32:40 yeah 19:32:58 and who cares about backups today anyway? 19:33:04 my server did last week, but it seems to have recovered perfectly.... 19:33:21 oh, you were lucky kipple 19:33:47 but the big problem isn't crashes and backups. it's people loosing interest, and discontinuing their web site 19:34:10 yeah, I was :D 19:34:33 yeah, interest in esolangs tends to happen especially among young people 19:35:06 Who then spend their entire life trying to deny it ;) 19:35:23 it does? I have no idea of the ages of people involved in esolags (except that I know several go to school currently) 19:35:24 I'll probably do raid-1 mirroring on the next box, but anyway. I guess if I ever get tired of hosting befunge.org (or keeping a web server at home), I'll try to consider some alternative arrangements. 19:35:24 hehe 19:36:21 well, in some cases (e.g. Olmstead's) they are hosted in the univ or school and disappear when they leave 19:36:41 that's just a guess on my side, kipple 19:37:12 fizzie, that's good to know 19:37:26 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.zip 19:38:14 cool, got it 19:38:39 fizzie: BTW, befunge.org seems to be weirding my line breaks for some reason. 19:38:50 The physical location of this server is likely to change quite much. (I'm probably moving few blocks further that road) in August, and there's an upper limit of 5/6 years (of which I've used 2) for these student apartments anyway.) 19:39:07 There's a spurious ) on the above line. 19:39:36 so it will be intermittent for some time 19:39:43 intermittently online, I mean 19:39:58 Well, yes. Downtimes shouldn't be longer than few hours, though. 19:40:06 I mean, I need my IRC. 19:40:08 oh that's bearable 19:40:10 hehehe 19:40:28 I'm fizzie and I'm an IRCoholic 19:41:09 pgimeno: Do you have a domain or subdomain for that site, btw? 19:41:30 GregorR-L: no, sorry, that's the problem I mentioned about the long URL 19:41:47 all I can do is set up a redirector when I have one 19:41:59 Do you want *.codu.org ? 19:42:07 I own that domain name, but the hosting is lame >_> 19:42:18 what's wrong with it? 19:42:18 Redirects aren't an issue though. 19:42:34 Very small amount of space, low bandwidth, intermittent issues. 19:42:56 uhm, yeah, sounds a bit lame 19:42:59 Costs $1/mo though 8-D 19:43:11 Gregor is cheap! 19:43:16 :) 19:43:23 But anyway, that's the web host, not the domain host. 19:43:29 So if you want a redirect, I can set it up. 19:44:00 my problem with redirection is that I have to do it myself 19:44:28 Hmm, your URL changes? 19:44:32 I don't have/know software for that except Apache but installing Apache sounds like too much overhead 19:45:03 see e.g. http://www.formauri.com/personal/pgimeno/ <- that's a redirector I have but it can only cope with www.formauri.com 19:45:28 what do you mean whether my URL changes? 19:45:33 I can set up *.codu.org to forward wherever you want. 19:45:41 Sorry, I was being confused ;) 19:45:51 So do you want a subdomain? 19:45:54 Between ~17.7. - 16.8. me and befunge.org will both be out of this place I'm living in now, because half of the apartment buildings here are being leased/something to this "IAAF World Championships in Athletics 2005" event. I've arranged a temporary location for the box, though, and hope I'll get to move to the next semi-permanent (at-least-a-year) place at the beginning of August. 19:46:57 fizzie: ok, in any case I think you'll agree that it sounds a bit unstable for a permanent esolang page... 19:47:37 * GregorR-L just sets up pgimeno.codu.org :-P 19:47:53 GregorR-L: back to the subdomain... you'll probably want to set up gregorr.codu.org or what you want 19:47:56 Well, yes. I don't have any cheap high-quality hosting available, though, otherwise I'd point gehennom.org there. 19:48:11 Er, befunge.org. 19:48:20 Heh, mixing up my domains already. 19:48:55 there are some free hostings around but they're full of advertisements 19:49:05 I've gtg now. 19:49:08 oh 19:49:12 See you all later. 19:49:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 19:49:41 hm, I'll discuss the subdomain later 19:50:16 there's funpic.org for example, unlimited space and php + mysql 19:51:31 but personally I hate pages full of ads 19:51:34 Mm-hmm. I've sometimes considered buying some quality hosting space. A local-ish provider (nebula.fi) has this (1GB of space, php+stuff, 25GB/month traffic recommendation) service that'd be 15eur/month, but since I don't have any content to host, I probably won't do that until I have a Real Job or something. 19:52:16 oh, yeah, that's a problem :) 19:52:42 I have a local outgoing traffic limit of 14GB/month here, too, but esoteric language sites aren't exactly generating huge amounts of traffic. At least until someone slashdots them. :p 19:53:08 (phone call= 19:53:09 ) 19:53:25 Oh, whoops, actually it's 14GB/week, not /month. 19:54:40 (And my web-serving IP has sent out 508498033 bytes during the last 7 days, so I'm not exactly very close to the limit yet.) 19:56:04 I'm paying for this hosting, but I'm afraid of using MySQL (e.g. wiki or stuff) because if I move to another ISP the database won't be moved 19:56:31 well, I can back it up and stuff but I don't like that idea much 19:57:42 Do they let you take an SQL dump of the db? That's relatively portable. 19:59:00 I think so, problem is if it crashes or for some reason I can't take a chance of backing it up before the content is lost/deleted 20:01:14 Mmm-hmm. (I'm really waiting for postgresql 8 to get debianized, it features an online hot-backup thing. I have a database table of 9.5 million rows that can't be replaced. I periodically burn a DVD of it, but it's always such a major operation.) 20:02:04 hum, sounds good, I wasn't aware of latest pgsql advances 20:03:30 anyway, manual handling of the contents is the only way I plan to handle what I host, no wiki or stuff (that's why I asked GregorR for the files to post) 20:03:55 oh damn, he uses absolute URLs instead of relative links 20:05:49 ah, no, I'm wrong 20:11:31 Heh, another planned service break affecting befunge.org at "16.5.2005 klo 17.00-18.30". FUNET has a borken router, it seems. 20:12:08 what is FUNET? I've used many times ftp.funet.fi but don't know what it is 20:13:48 Finnish University [something-or-other] NETwork. Part of NORDUNET. 20:14:03 oh, I see 20:14:06 "Finnish University and Research Network", apparently. 20:14:23 I'm not sure where the R has gone. 20:14:39 Maybe they didn't like the sound of "FurNet". 20:15:34 -!- Kmkr has joined. 20:15:39 back 20:15:43 hi Kmkr 20:15:44 took a while 20:15:46 hello 20:15:50 -!- Kmkr has changed nick to Keymaker. 20:15:52 it's me. 20:15:54 :) 20:16:05 yeah, I recognized you at first :) 20:16:10 heh 20:16:28 Ehlo. 20:16:58 hi 20:17:00 wow, an ESMTP salute, cool 20:17:00 lol 20:17:07 :) 20:17:10 "furnet" 20:17:11 lol 20:17:16 that'd be good 20:17:46 btw, where you have that big database fizzie? 20:17:58 i mean what its purpose 20:18:14 *what is 20:18:15 Er... I'd rather not say. It's a bit stupid. More than a bit, actually. 20:18:28 :) 20:18:33 #esoteric/2003-01.log:[2003-01-05 15:47:17] < fizzie> EHLO fizzie 20:18:33 #esoteric/2003-01.log:[2003-01-05 16:25:29] < fizzie> I was kind of waiting for the EHLO answer, whether he supports 8BITMIME and so on. 20:18:40 I've done the esmpt greeting here earlier. 20:18:46 s/pt/tp/ 20:19:28 is that the content of your database? irc logs? ;) 20:19:49 :) 20:19:57 No, no, I only have ~half a gig of those. 20:20:04 lol 20:20:05 And they're stored as flat-files, not in a db. 20:20:10 something to read.. 20:20:14 -!- Xin_ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 20:20:34 GregorR: nice idea about that 2D language where you actually need to collect stuff from the stack 20:20:43 "physically" 20:21:19 580M of irclogs in non-bzip2-tarballed directories. 20:22:59 Oh well, the "database" is in http://darkhive.gehennom.org/ (I wouldn't normally mention the URL, but since it's only readable for Finnish-speaking people...) 20:24:18 ah. it's this :) 20:24:36 you mentioned it long ago 20:24:56 Possibly. I've been writing new statistics graphs for the stats/ thing lately. 20:25:14 ok 20:25:59 Admittedly a catastrophic database failure of _that_ material might be just a good thing. 20:26:14 :) 20:27:49 ah, finally i found that one track from my harddrive.. 20:28:01 i should convert more of my cds to mp3 20:28:17 (and to note, i don't share a bit.) 20:28:30 (i hate file sharing) 20:28:42 sorry, phone again 20:28:51 I recently ripped my CD collection. glad to be finished :) 20:29:02 :) 20:29:25 i have a big bunch of german trance :p 20:29:31 (and techno) 20:29:43 (the only music they sell so cheaply ;)) 20:30:35 heh. not much of that in my shelf :) 20:30:55 what kind of music you like? 20:30:59 mostly Rock 20:31:28 Pink Floyd, Pixies, R.E.M., Mars Volta, Radiohead, PJ Harvey etc..... 20:32:09 i see. (although don't know much about their music) 20:32:21 gotta spend some time away from the computer now. Later. 20:32:25 ok 20:32:27 have fun 20:40:35 fizzie: excuse me but the link you gave sounds to me basically like this one: http://pikachize.eye-of-newt.com/pika.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formauri.es%2F 20:48:54 Yes, well... ours is a rather silly little language. 20:49:21 silly? why? 20:49:50 Oh, I just assume it sounds silly to non-speakers. 20:50:38 I mean, "entgegengegangen" sounds silly to me, but I'm sure it sounds reasonable and sensible for any possible *.de people here. 20:50:40 it is silly for speakers as well :p 20:50:57 lol 20:51:45 hmmm 20:52:06 i got an idea that maybe esolangs need somekind of creature as well 20:52:15 like there is that tux penguin 20:52:24 and that gnu gnu 20:52:38 what about something esoteric animal? 20:53:46 (like some cute virus :)) 20:54:04 nah 20:54:07 something nice 20:54:44 Hm. I'm not sure what would be the most esoteric animal. 20:55:13 Perhaps a platypus. 20:56:04 well, the pgimeno is a rather esoteric animal 20:57:21 :D 20:57:54 hmmm 20:58:00 that platypus seems fun and cute 20:58:04 There's a platypus on the cover of my "Object-Oriented Programming" book. 20:58:24 :) 20:58:25 why? 20:58:43 I think its author (Timothy Budd) has a habit of adding one to each of his books. 20:59:03 :D 20:59:38 hmm. i could attempt drawing it tomorrow. 20:59:44 (notice i suck at drawing!) 21:01:07 The platypus's name is Phyl. 21:01:16 ok 21:01:21 (in those books?) 21:01:39 Yes. 21:01:42 ok 21:02:14 anyways, imho it might be fun to have some animal as esolang mascot 21:02:27 In this one he uses it to demonstrate an exception where a child class overrides behaviour it inherits. It's a mammal, yet it lays eggs. 21:02:40 :) 21:02:48 hmm that's rather interesting 21:04:01 I don't like the book too much, but I guess that's not Phyl's fault. 21:06:32 yeah 21:08:19 well. i'll get to sleep 21:08:38 good nite 21:08:41 Night. 21:08:42 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!"). 21:09:18 I need to leave now too, see you tomorrow 21:09:47 oh, for GregorR: http://www.formauri.es/personal/GregorR/ 21:10:09 some details have still to be pinned down but it's there already 21:10:25 bye 21:37:13 Taaus: http://helios.et.put.poznan.pl/%7Edzieciol/fx/Adam_Fulara-Goldberg_no_1.avi 22:11:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:48:55 lament: Oh. My. God... That's amazing! 23:49:10 no kidding 23:49:20 looks way harder than piano 23:49:36 Yep. 23:50:08 i bet it isn't :) 23:50:39 Hehe... Well... Learn to play it on the guitar! :) 23:51:13 no way 23:51:21 i don't have a guitar like that :) 23:52:06 Build one! :P 23:52:17 Just tape two guitars together. ;) 23:52:47 no. 23:52:53 i can't play that on piano anyway :) 23:53:16 Oop. I gotta go. Thanks for the link... I'll have to look at that movie a dozen times.