< 1113443240 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"let me go forth to recreate my sleep." < 1113444204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did some befunge syntax-highlighting to my universal turing machine thing: http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.bef -- the code is still very much unoptimized. :/ < 1113444211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egh. < 1113444225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not syntax-highlighted at all. < 1113444242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.html was the URL I was aiming for. I'm not sure if the fancier things work at all with a non-firefox browser. < 1113444350 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1113444893 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me happy, fizzie < 1113446281 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-gecko browser, you mean < 1113460750 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1113465599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1113465600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1113480588 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1113492284 0 :andreou!~peace@athe530-d007.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1113495254 0 :Keymaker!~a@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1113495295 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eveninä < 1113495302 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh < 1113495309 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace ä with ' < 1113495350 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like interesting stuff fizzie, although i haven't tried :) < 1113496744 0 :tombom!tombom@user213040191036.dial.netline.net.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1113496957 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you contribute content to an esoteric language wiki, Keymaker? < 1113497689 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps somethin' < 1113497700 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry about delay, i was getting ice cream from store) < 1113501012 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1113501015 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1113501018 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh < 1113501020 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fckklllllllllllllll < 1113501023 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1113501025 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1113501033 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:{} < 1113501038 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#/?&#?&(#()"#?"&%!%&#!" < 1113501039 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1113501045 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooo no no no non ono no non on onon < 1113501049 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1113501074 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. < 1113501085 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatsup? < 1113501090 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rgh < 1113501099 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1113501101 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? < 1113501131 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second time i wrote < 1113501140 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "core" for my lbfc solution today < 1113501152 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this one.. < 1113501157 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOESN*T WORK < 1113501175 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i realized the error just after completing it.. < 1113501189 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to rewrite the s**t again < 1113501206 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no, i don't have the first working version anymore) < 1113501215 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why one always should take backups < 1113501224 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never do, and i've pretty often regretted that < 1113501230 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of those cases < 1113501236 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfair!!!! < 1113501238 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaargh < 1113501277 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION redies < 1113501365 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey.. < 1113501369 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might work.. < 1113501377 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there isn't logical error afterall < 1113501379 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta try < 1113501563 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1113501570 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1113501592 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gr < 1113501593 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh < 1113501610 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it thing it's just because coding error < 1113501614 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because of logical error < 1113501694 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is REALLY ANNOYING when you have A LOT brainfuck instructions in front of your face and you gotta find some ERROR that causes F***ING OVERFLOW somewhere.... < 1113501700 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go to calming down < 1113501704 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better try again later < 1113501706 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1113501719 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1113501985 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1113503937 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is away: booze < 1113504402 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"let me go forth to recreate my sleep." < 1113504776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booze! < 1113509057 0 :Keymaker!~a@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1113509078 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1113509089 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*panic* < 1113509295 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Good shit, huh? Dozer makes it. It's good for two things: degreasing engines and killing brain cells." < 1113510049 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1113510221 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if anyone wants to contribute to the wiki, it's at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ < 1113510225 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote some shit there to start it off < 1113511547 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good :) < 1113511754 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikipedia is already a good esolang wiki, though... < 1113512220 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1113512226 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this looks nice too < 1113513682 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia doesn't like esolang stuff and wants to delete all of it for nonnotability < 1113513703 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1113513712 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wiki is good idea < 1113513725 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to contribute something sometime < 1113513833 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a sidenote, that is entirely unrelated to this matter, my third version of the input system doesn't work............. < 1113513859 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i start to be slightly annoyed < 1113514577 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, C isn't turing-complete, is it? < 1113514599 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because according to the spec, sizeof(void*) must be finite < 1113514689 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me < 1113514703 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but naturally i hope it is not turing-complete :) < 1113514724 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's feature of more elegant languages.. (brainfuck) < 1113515144 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1113515150 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go. < 1113515153 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1113516984 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting :) do you have a link to a formal specification of C? < 1113517037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n843.htm has the latest C99 draft that's legally freely available. < 1113517047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite close to the actual standard. < 1113517055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "close enough" for most uses. < 1113517166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual standard could possibly be found in the interweb, too, but officially it costs few $s. < 1113517204 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. thanks. < 1113517250 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't see why it can't be turing-complete because of sizeof. < 1113517296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If sizeof(void *) is finite, there's (possibly; haven't thinked this through) no (standard) way to access infinite amounts of memory. < 1113517342 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a linked list do the trick? < 1113517380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A linked list still needs pointers to the elements, and there are only 2^(sizeof(void *) * CHAR_BITS) unique memory addresses those can be in. < 1113517524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each such allocation shall yield a pointer to an object disjoint from any other object." says the spec about malloc and other dynamic memory allocation functions. That means there's at the very least an upper bound of possible malloc()-allocated objects, and those have finite size too. < 1113517546 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that only deals with RAM < 1113517586 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory demanded by turing-completeness could be harddrives or tape < 1113517650 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be a problem having a C program read from an infinite tape stream, just like a turing machine. Or am I missing something here?? < 1113517687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how the standard specifies "fsetpos()/fgetpos()". If those are required to work for all files, it imposes an upper limit for random-access-files. < 1113517720 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. yes. < 1113517786 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is pretty academic, as there doesn't exist, and never will, an implementation of ANY language that is turing complete :) < 1113517801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if an implementation with infinite-size files (that could be used with fseek(..., SEEK_CUR) commands) would be C-standards-conforming. < 1113517842 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all input doesn't have to come from random access files < 1113517862 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user input, for instance is theoretically infinite < 1113517892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input, yes, but a Turing machine needs a seekable and rewritable "something" for the tape. < 1113517904 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1113517915 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't need setpos/getpos < 1113517929 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only next/prev < 1113517964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but C standard doesn't have that kind of streams. There's fseek(), though. < 1113517980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hmm, I wonder if outputting "Dear User, please remember the following values" would be considered cheating. < 1113518218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, dang. For a FILE object (which is the only seekable thing in standard C except memory) the standard defines: "-- fpos_t which is an object type other than an array type capable of recording all the information needed to specify uniquely every position within a file." (And fpos_t has finite size - all objects do.) < 1113518304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. C is a low-level language anyway. < 1113518455 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing stops you from writing libinfinitetape that offers moveleft(), moveright(), writebyte() and readbyte() :) < 1113518466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not standard C, though. < 1113518480 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1113518498 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can write it with standard C it is, but apparently you can't... < 1113518524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be noted that Java has the same _crippling_ problem. < 1113518542 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that crippling? < 1113518555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, that's why it was underlined. < 1113518581 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I interpret underlines differently than you then :) < 1113518633 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me that would mean emphasis on the word, as in REALLY crippling... < 1113518635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Streams aren't seekable, and RandomAccessFiles have a file pointer of only 64 bytes. I'm not sure if a standard Java implementation could provide an infinite amout of objects, though.) < 1113518660 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no implementation of anything can do that < 1113520171 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you use new an infinite number of times? < 1113520464 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean in Java? < 1113520869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Java, perhaps. < 1113520894 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you make an infinite "tape" what way? < 1113521070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I see, a (doubly-)linked list would work in Java-language (when looking at the Java language specification book), but an infinite tape in Java-VM (as specified by the Java Virtual Machine Specification) wouldn't be possible. < 1113521124 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Java VM is not the language. you could implement java without it. < 1113521139 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the spec require a VM? < 1113521164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language probably doesn't. I'm not awake enough to read all the details. < 1113521199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if the VM spec goes low-level enough that it would limit things. It seems to only speak of a dynamic-sized heap.